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Why Contractors Stay Small Forever
2 Playsin 8 minutes
Why do some contractors grow into thriving businesses while others stay stuck for decades? In this episode, Brent Oberlink and Alex Eckhardt discuss the biggest reasons contractors struggle to scale, from taking on too much debt to failing to understand their financials. They break down the importance of knowing your numbers, building a strong brand, and developing leadership within your company. Brent also shares why renting equipment can often be smarter than buying early on. If you're looking to grow your business, this episode is packed with practical advice you can apply today.
Special Thank you to Gateway Dealer Network for sponsoring today's podcast. Visit them at bobcatgdn.com or speak to sales specialist Tim Mueller at tmueller@bobcatofstl.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Be a good effing human. I think that fixes so much more than people realize. And when I say be a good human, I'm talking... Having the respect from others because of how you've lived your life Welcome back to another edition of the better contractor podcast today.
00:00:18
Speaker
I am joined by Alex again. What's up, man? How's it going? Good. Good. Anything new in your world?
00:00:28
Speaker
welcome back to another edition of the better contractor podcast today i am joined by alex again it's up man how's it going good good anything doing in your world Not really. It's summer. It's hot. It's summer.
Why Do Some Contractors Stay Small?
00:00:40
Speaker
We're sitting in our little podcast studio, they're doing some sewer work outside, and it doesn't smell like sewage in here, but it smells like some kind of weird sewer liner. So if you hear Alex cough a little bit, that's what's going on. We're to have headaches by the time we're done with this podcast. It's It's a weird smell. So anyway, we're dealing with that as we film this one. So anyway, what are we talking about today?
00:01:01
Speaker
I've been a lot been doing a lot in Facebook groups, and I've seen a lot of questions about contractors who have good work, but they're not growing at the rate they want to grow. So we're titling this, Why Contractors Stay Small Forever.
00:01:16
Speaker
Now, small necessarily isn't a bad thing. Some guys want to stay small. They want to just be busy four to five days a week and not grow out a team. And that's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But some guys want to grow, have employees,
00:01:32
Speaker
franchise, do whatever. yeah um Obviously, you've done that with locations in multiple different states. Tell us your story. how I just want to start out the podcast with when you were smaller, when you started out, what did your vision look like?
00:01:47
Speaker
How did you take that first step? And I want to be bigger than just Brownstown, Illinois. All right. No diss to Brownstown, by the way. um In all seriousness, so I grew up on a family farm, which I think you know that one.
Paths to Contracting and Growth Decisions
00:02:02
Speaker
But So did that for a while, absolutely loved that, and I was super grateful for those years and the work ethic and just experience.
00:02:12
Speaker
If I was raising young boys, I would have a hobby farm at minimum just to let them be on it and and grow up on it. So that taught me a lot of the work ethic that I have today. um Loved just being outdoors, loved doing the equipment. On the farm side, my brother, who is older than myself, kind of had that handled already by the time I was old enough.
00:02:32
Speaker
So I thought need make my own path somehow here. So kind of happened into this industry a little bit. um So I was not, I'll back up a second. So I think a lot of contractors are either people like myself who wanted to run and own a business and had that from the get go that they wanted to do. I never wanted it to be something that was just like small crew or even really myself doing the work.
00:02:57
Speaker
Then you're on the other side of that coin, you have a lot of guys who maybe they were in the contracting space as an employee for several years and then decided, I'm going to do this on my own. So then they had that expertise, knowledge in the field, stuff like that, and then they branched in and did this on their own.
00:03:15
Speaker
Sometimes they just wanted that freedom. Sometimes they just wanted to not be told what to do by a boss, and that's fine. What you see in contracting, it seems like, is you have those – Some of those grow into massive companies.
00:03:28
Speaker
Some of them, that's just what they do. They have a small crew and they love that and there's nothing against that. Some are more like myself who had the background, knew how to run equipment, and I did do our stuff in the beginning. I had no option not to. I was too young. So I do have the experience, but my goal was never to, that was going to be my day-to-day.
00:03:46
Speaker
I wanted out of that portion of it to be able to build a larger business as soon as possible. So I think that's the two paths and there's nothing wrong with either one. You just really got to look at what you want to do yourself.
The Role of Systems and Delegation in Business Growth
00:03:58
Speaker
Do you just mainly want freedom, a decent paycheck, the ability to kind of build something that's you, or are you wanting to build something that's more like what I would say is that generational, meaning this is a larger entity that has a management staff that has, I have a little bit more ability to step away because I'm not doing the day to day in the field task.
00:04:17
Speaker
um You just got to decide what you want. That one has a little bit more responsibilities, a little more headache, a little bit more stress, a little more debt. So you just got to decide whether you want that one or the other. But the one thing I will say that is universal amongst both of those, you got to have your systems and processes. You'll see me talk about all the time. It's because it was a little bit of a lesson learned for myself and also just because the more and more I'm around it, the older and older I get, the more I realize that really is almost everything.
00:04:46
Speaker
so They're important and you talk about them all the time. yeah Something you don't talk about as much that you just touched on is delegation. Delegation is huge. I know when I owned my company, I struggled with it because one, you have to trust them to get the work done. Two, we're go-getters. If we have something to do we just want to go do it.
00:05:05
Speaker
yeah It's hard to be like, hey, can you do this for me? So how important is it to delegate whenever you're trying to scale a company? If you want to scale, the the delegation is everything, honestly. um Fortunately, it is not something I struggle with too much. I probably keep my pulse on a lot of the day-to-day, maybe more than I need to still, um but it's because I'm a quality person and I don't want a customer to have a bad experience.
00:05:32
Speaker
We did have some of those issues in the very, very beginning, in the first few years. when we So we grew like 100% for several years in a row, and it was a lot. And with that, I had to delegate or constrict of the two. That's my option.
00:05:46
Speaker
So I honestly delegated probably too much in the beginning. And I remember getting some customer complaints back. And that just like, that really just chapped me because I was so adamant that our customers would always be happy we were not going to be that contractor. And for the most part, we weren't. We only had really two that were bad. And I remember dealing with those. anyway, so that was when I really cranked down on who that management staff was, a little bit more of our processes and the stuff in the field. I really decided that, hey, somehow I have to prevent that.
00:06:17
Speaker
So I am still kind of involved there a lot. But I guess my point is, you know, in the beginning, I knew what I was good at and what I wasn't. I despise, I hate accounting.
00:06:29
Speaker
So one of the first things I did was hire someone to do our accounting for us. not in Not in-house. We didn't have the size or ability or money to. So I found an accounting firm. that would do it, I took them our stuff once a week, I picked it up, they handled all of it. It actually worked great.
00:06:44
Speaker
Same thing with an attorney, you know, we we hired, well, you usually do hire that out, but we grabbed and did all that stuff right from the get-go. The more and more stuff I could delegate out that I wasn't necessarily the best at, we did.
00:06:57
Speaker
Now we do a lot our marketing house, back then we did it all through a different agency. So I think realizing, number one, that you need to, then deciding, hey, I'm good at this, I'm not that great at this, Delegate the stuff first that you're not great at so that someone that is good at it is doing it. But you can't be afraid to delegate. If you are, if you're a control freak, if you are type A, which is what a lot of people use as their excuse, just realize if you don't get over that, you're probably going to stay where you're at.
00:07:24
Speaker
Because the fact is, you have to delegate. But with that, I think you'll feel a lot more comfort if you're being picky about who you hire. Most of time, if there's a delegation issue, you've probably got the wrong person in that spot. Or maybe that person doesn't follow through.
00:07:39
Speaker
And you know they won't. And you leave them. Made that mistake before. So you've got to really fine tune and get the right people in the right positions. Then delegation will become a lot easier. Exactly. With delegation, I like the saying that you're supposed to hire someone that does that thing better than you, which I think is a shock to a lot of people because they're like, you're the owner. I'm the best. I'm the best at everything. You shouldn't have to hire people that are better than you.
00:08:05
Speaker
So I think that hits a lot of people pretty hard when they hear that because it's true. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one thing, too, leadership really involves a lot of ah psychology.
00:08:17
Speaker
And I think a lot of people don't realize that. And when I was in school, I've always loved psychology. I've always loved business. So it marries itself well for me. But... You should lead people. You should always be authentic to yourself, but you should lead people, put people into positions, understand their strengths, understand their weaknesses and try to position people accordingly. I can think of one person. He's no longer with us now, but he was with us for a long time. And I think he changed position. I should can think of two people.
00:08:42
Speaker
Changed positions multiple times while they were at Lando Corp. And really it was me fine tuning. And finally i got them in the perfect spot for them. But had I left them in that one that they were originally hired for,
00:08:55
Speaker
probably would have ended up terminating them or moving on but I saw different values and different things they were bringing to the table it just wasn't in that position and thankfully I was able to create and and I needed that other position so I moved those people into it so both of them had less responsibility you know once we did that but I think that's key too is understanding people's strengths and weaknesses as well yeah my dad works at thought foods and that's what they do they yeah rarely, rarely, rarely ever terminate. You have to do something pretty bad to get terminated. yeah But they understand the psychology in that everybody's good at something.
Understanding Employee Strengths and Company Culture
00:09:30
Speaker
Everyone has a skill. Everyone has something they enjoy. yeah It's just working with that person and yeah figuring out where in the company, it's like a puzzle. You can piece them somewhere and they're going to do well. yeah so I like that and yeah and I think sometimes you got to realize too when someone applies for a job if you had an ad out there if they're unemployed or looking aggressively they they may be applying to something that they don't actually even want or not necessarily is their strength so once you hire you should you know obviously try to find this out during in the hiring process but once you do hire I think it's your leadership's responsibility to make sure that is the right position and if not
00:10:07
Speaker
do they have value elsewhere that you need and then mix it and put them in there. So for sure. Um, do you think contractors, some contractors fear growth because of the responsibility that comes with it?
00:10:20
Speaker
I think early on when we talked about the two different types, I think the first type does. yeah um And I think it's because they probably went into business, not necessarily just because, hey, I want to be a business owner. I want to scale this. I want to do big things. But because they really just wanted the freedom. they didn't want to work for somebody. They had bad experiences working for other people. They felt they were underpaid, stuff like that.
00:10:40
Speaker
I think a lot of contractors get in the business that way. There's a lot of different industries that are that way. But I think those, to answer your question, probably more so than the other, because it maybe wasn't the original intention. And maybe it happened upon them. Maybe they were in an industry that was a huge need for them to to exist.
00:10:58
Speaker
They did a great job. Word of mouth did its thing. All of a sudden, they're slammed, like, hey, I need to hire 10, 15, 20 people. And deep down, they don't know if they ever really wanted to do that. So, yeah, so I think sometimes, yes.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah. how How does strong leaders and strong foremen in the company help you scale? You can't be the only leader. You have to have leaders throughout the company. So it's huge. I know for us personally, so Lander Corp, we have myself, general manager, and then our flow chart, org chart spreads out from there.
00:11:30
Speaker
The kind of last level, I would say, would be the field foreman personnel, and then a lot of employees are underneath that level. And for us, because we do a lot of travel, so I may not see a foreman maybe just a few times a year yeah where if we were a local company and we only worked locally and all the crews were within a one-hour radius reported direct every day, I am then able to have a lot more effect and in everything on every employee. So with us, the difficulty is,
00:12:02
Speaker
I don't have that day-to-day interaction with those people direct face-to-face. And that has been probably one of our biggest struggles because we are a company. We work in pipeline. So pipelines can run from the northeast to Texas.
00:12:15
Speaker
So we may get 300 miles this year, 100 next year, and the next 300 the next year, and literally be in 10 different states. Nothing wrong with it, we've worked around it and we we do it. But that's probably been one of the bigger headaches. But with that said, I think your you can have a tremendous culture as a leader, mindset, everything else, you can convey that to your management staff.
00:12:39
Speaker
But if your management staff then doesn't relay that to your field foreman, or if your field foreman are getting it, but they're not relaying it to there to their, to the laborers and operators in the field, then it dies.
00:12:52
Speaker
And I think most companies, naturally, I think if you look at a lot of companies, I forget the one psychology thing, but Basically, if there's like a room of 30 people and I whisper in your ear something by the time it gets to person 30 It's a completely different thing I think that it can happen it a little bit with culture or it gets diluted as it hits on down Because I think a lot of times the owner if they're in the position for the right reasons They probably have a ton of drive a ton of vision a ton of just like passionate about this business That's gonna be hard to replicate if you don't own it
00:13:25
Speaker
So you've got to create such a big vision and a big picture that by the time it hits the next one, they still have a lot and then on down the line. So I think owners need to be very aware of that and aware that I need to paint a big enough picture and vision and I need to be the biggest cheerleader for this company and my vision, even bigger than I feel it, knowing that it may get diminished slightly as it goes through those different people.
00:13:50
Speaker
For sure. And I've seen it with a lot of companies, sometimes the office staff isn't on the same page as the guys in the field, whether it's a respect thing or whatever it is. How important is that in the overall company's growth?
00:14:06
Speaker
It's important. So i think there's no secret in the blue collar contracting space that there's a lot of... People in the field who think the office personnel are idiots. It's a very common thing. I think the best way around that, I know internally, um having the office staff be super respectful and also like congratulatory and praise what is going on in the field, acknowledging that, hey, we may land these contracts, but without you in the field, it doesn't actually ever happen.
00:14:41
Speaker
So this is a team. So I think going back to really, really, really pushing this whole team effort, like, you know, i there was one person in the field a few years ago that had an issue with someone. I just looked at him. i said, do you want to be, I'm just going to make up, so it's not identifiable, a position, but do you want to be an accountant?
00:15:00
Speaker
Like, do you want to sit behind a desk every day? Do you want to crunch numbers? Is that what you want to do? and he's like, well, no, of course not. I want to be in the field. I said, then let the accountant be the accountant. You be the foreman. We're working together to do all of this stuff. Realize it is a team effort.
00:15:15
Speaker
You may not understand what's going on in the office. And the office may not understand what's going on the field sometimes. That's normal, but you can't sit there and bash each other over it and act like the other person's an idiot because the fact is you don't know how to run a P&L and create one, but they may not know how to operate that piece of equipment.
00:15:34
Speaker
But guess what? Both has to get done in order to achieve the ultimate goal. yeah So I think leadership has to get a handle on that and explain that in a way to stop that divide between the two.
00:15:45
Speaker
i want to take a moment from this podcast to say thank you to our sponsors. Gateway Dealer Network, also known as GDN, is your trusted Bobcat dealer serving the St. Louis region. With 10 locations across the Midwest, they offer sales, service, parts, and rentals for all your compact equipment needs. Featuring world famous Bobcat equipment from compact track loaders, mini excavators, and skid steer loaders to lawn mowers and mini track loaders, they have it all. Backed by over 35 years of experience, they're here to keep your business running strong.
00:16:17
Speaker
You can visit them at their website, bobcatgdn.com. That is also in our bio. But you can also contact Tim Mueller, who is our sales specialist at 618-779-6562.
00:16:32
Speaker
Or you can email him at tmueller at bobcatofstl.com. That info is also in the bio of this podcast.
00:16:43
Speaker
For sure.
Financial Metrics and Business Health
00:16:44
Speaker
Moving on, you touched on P&Ls. Scrolling through our Facebook group, shout out the Better Contractor Facebook group. Join it if you need any advice, questions, or whatever you may need. There's 3,000 members in it now.
00:16:59
Speaker
nice But I was scrolling through it, and there's a question. This guy said... I simply don't know my numbers. I don't know my P&L. I'm not tracking revenue, profits.
00:17:11
Speaker
Am I missing out on this? am i How important is it if I start tracking everything? which was So basically, I'm going to take that question. I'm going to pretend that you are a you you're a human and you're asking the doctor.
00:17:26
Speaker
It's my heartbeat. important Exactly. It's breathing important, and the answer is 100%. So a business exists really for only one thing, and that is to make profit. You have to know your numbers. there is This is a complete, what I would say is a non-negotiable. um It's really a simple fix. you know i know when we got started, we used QuickBooks.
00:17:47
Speaker
There's so many different options now. When we got started, it was QuickBooks, and I forget the other one. But, dude, like it's super simple. You just enter everything into it. It runs. As long as you enter the enter the information correctly, it will run a P&L report for you. So there's really no excuse, if I'm being honest, to not be doing at least the basics.
00:18:05
Speaker
I cannot imagine also being honest to running a business that I didn't know my profit and loss and a balance sheet, all the very basic things, cashflow, what's getting ready to happen. What's not,
00:18:17
Speaker
I think cashflow is a big one. A lot of people focus on, and I think that's one golf topic a tiny bit. A lot of contractors focus focus on gross and not net revenue. I think that's often a mistake. Even in some of these Facebook groups, I see so many questions like, what did you do to get to 5 million? What'd you do to get to a million?
00:18:34
Speaker
They're not talking net, they're talking gross. And like I've said this podcast before, I don't really pay that much attention to that number. I pay attention to the EBITDA and I pay attention to net because actually that's all it matters because you can have a business doing a million in gross and a hundred thousand in net.
00:18:52
Speaker
You can have a $10 million dollars business also doing a hundred thousand net. I would rather have the responsibilities and less headache of the million dollar business doing a hundred thousand than the $10 million dollar business doing a hundred thousand. I agree. Cause there's a lot more headache. I guarantee it with Tim. yeah So,
00:19:08
Speaker
Ultimately, that is the only number that really matters. And then I see so many people not know their cash flow projections. So contracting is notorious about cash flow because honestly, it's slightly weather dependent.
00:19:21
Speaker
Some contractors, what you're not all some, what you're doing can be affected by the market a lot. So, hey, homeowners constrict on discretionary spending, meaning I'm not putting that pool in right now, or I'm not doing that landscape project. So you can have those ebbs and flows. So I think you have to absolutely have that cash flow projection out there knowing that, hey, when July hits, it's going to be lean. So I need to make some corrections and adjustments now to be able to meet payroll in July. And probably have some banking relationships set up in advance.
00:19:51
Speaker
For sure. And if you don't know your numbers, you don't know your expenses, you don't know what's coming in. So how do you go and... I don't even know how you fix something if you don't know your numbers, if I'm being honest. You can't fix it, one, but how do you go and quote jobs if you don't know the history in the past? Hey, this cost me this.
00:20:11
Speaker
That's knowledge you can use for the next bids yeah and be more accurate with it. Yeah. Yeah, so to me, and that's the other thing contracting can be bad about because, well, it depends on the industry. There's obviously a ton of different contractors from homeowners to what we do to HVAC, whatever. For sure.
00:20:29
Speaker
Some contractors are very heavily involved in bidding processes or they just undercut each other. You don't see it as bad in some industries you do others, but some industries, the undercutting is ridiculous.
00:20:42
Speaker
Some of that, I think, is they're focusing on growing their growths, like we just talked about. yeah Part of that is i don't think they have any idea what their numbers are. I'm shocked. There's a Facebook group I'm in not active in. I just read every once a while.
00:20:57
Speaker
I'm shocked at how many questions come up. Hey, what are you guys charging per hour for this? i'm like, what? Like, I actually responded to one of kind of smart aleck the other day. Like, you got charge what you need to charge. Exactly.
00:21:09
Speaker
What does it cost you to own that equipment? What is your overhead? Which I guarantee this guy did not even have any idea what his overhead was. What do you want to make yourself per hour? he was owner-operator. Like, to me, so many people just think, well, I want to make 50 hour.
00:21:26
Speaker
My equipment lease payment is this, I burn about this much fuel, there's my price. Well, Guess what? You have a lot of other equipment you're going to need. Guarantee you're going to have some weird, freaky thing happen to your piece of equipment at some point. This place is going to charge you 10 grand on your repair bill. Well, that's a lot of hours.
00:21:45
Speaker
It's a lot of hours. So people just don't know their overhead. They don't factor in insurance. They don't factor in taxes sometimes. they There's so many things they do not factor in. Then they get to the end of the year and they're like, well, shoot, I just worked all year and didn't make anything. Yeah. So I think that it's it's probably one of the biggest. What was that? remember what the question was. the often the answer It was how important is estimating and bidding? Okay. So I think you have to know your numbers. If not that net income and EBITDA and all that stuff we just talked about, you're never going to hit good numbers there. yeah So because you don't actually know how to price your job right.
00:22:16
Speaker
For sure. So whenever contractors are in that stage of they're set up, they're doing well, but they want to grow. i think a lot of the mindset is I need equipment. I need as much as equipment as I can get my hands on just to have.
00:22:31
Speaker
I don't believe that's the correct mindset. um So what are what are some like. financial mistakes that contractors make that obviously equipment's one of them. Yeah. But how important is that? And what are some others? i Yeah. So I'd say one of the biggest mistakes I've seen, and this is in contracting this more heavily based with equipment. So, you know, jobs that may take two, $300,000 worth of equipment plus just to do one single job is getting just a few jobs and then a bank giving that, cause good credit going ahead and giving them a loan.
00:23:03
Speaker
They go buy the equipment, without a steady stream or plan of getting jobs past the ones they know they're in the next two or three months. Then they get to those two or three months, those jobs become slower or harder to get.
00:23:15
Speaker
but Well, I guess what that payment still do. So I think a while back we talked about rentals and purchases. And I think that this, especially when you're new or if you have kind a niche business, Knowing when to rent versus buy.
00:23:27
Speaker
There is some equipment that even now that we still rent. Just because if I didn't, it's going to sit in our yard 10 months out of the year. um So that will rent. Now, I have in the past, you know, during really good years, like, screw it, I'm going to go buy that equipment.
00:23:41
Speaker
Well, guess what happened over time? You know, it's sitting outside. Some electrical connections go bad. It becomes unreliable. It's just sitting out there fading in the sun, you know. And it's not reliable anymore. So at that point, you have a piece of equipment that is low-hour. Maybe it's even newer, but it's not as reliable as one that has been used a lot. So for us in that moment, it was still advantageous. So we ended up selling it, and we rent.
The Critical Role of Marketing
00:24:04
Speaker
So I think that's one of the biggest mistakes. Yep. Moving on to marketing. Marketing's huge. Obviously, you spend a lot of money on marketing, and most people should as long as it's effective marketing.
00:24:17
Speaker
um But I feel like a lot of these contractors ignore marketing as a whole. I don't know if it's because they don't understand it, they don't like change, they don't enjoy social media, but they rely on word of mouth or whatever they're using. So how important has marketing been for you and how how has it changed over the past 17 years? Yeah.
00:24:41
Speaker
So marketing's changed a lot cause when I got started, social media wasn't a big thing. And it's really not for my niche. Social media is still not. I don't want to downplay it, though. It still is important. It's good for us for culture.
00:24:53
Speaker
So I think a lot of times, especially if you're a contractor that got into the market or got into your business when things were hot, and I'm going to think of a specific person in business. that came in right after all the COVID checks were going out.
00:25:06
Speaker
And I think there's a lot of people who may be coming to the market at that time. They don't really need to market. They just need the people to know they exist. The businesses out there, what they're providing is wanted and they boom right off the bat. So they don't spend the money in marketing. The thing is the economy goes what up and down, up and down. Demand changes. ah What you're selling may have been valuable in 2020 and it may not, nobody by may care 2026, 27.
00:25:32
Speaker
So I think marketing, to me, what marketing does for you, and this is something we've valued from the get-go. Like when we first got started, and this was 17 years ago, we spent eight thousands of dollars a year on marketing, even back then. And this was before paid ads and everything. We put the money back then into our website, mailers and stuff like that, that's what was relevant at the time. But I think probably its biggest value, in my opinion, currently is culture.
00:26:02
Speaker
So you're building culture with your marketing as a contractor. and and And this goes for me if I was hiring somebody to do something at my house. I'm jumping on social just to kind of get a feel for who you are.
00:26:15
Speaker
And to gain trust. And I think a lot of people don't do those. Don't realize that they think marketing is just always selling selling, selling, selling, selling a service, selling your product. And in reality, what it is, is a trust. You're building trust with whoever is looking at you online to either buy from you or to work for you. And I think a lot of people don't realize that second part is if I am out there and I'm working in this industry and I don't like where I'm working, I jump on social, I start following other businesses that do what I do and do what I love.
00:26:45
Speaker
All of a sudden, one day I come across this company was like, man, it looks cool to work there. Man, they seem cool. like the just Their marketing's good. The equipment looks newer. They're they're like passionate about this industry, just like me.
00:26:58
Speaker
Guess where I'm applying? I'm applying there, yeah whenever that time comes. So I think a lot of contractors don't realize word of mouth is not enough. Yeah, it's great, and it is important, but your customers want to know who you are. Future employees want to know who you are, and it also matters a lot, too, for your current employees.
00:27:15
Speaker
They want to be involved with a company that is kind of at the helm of their industry and kind of, like, leading their industry and stuff like that. So... i think that's a lot of people miss is they just don't see the full reason for marketing.
00:27:27
Speaker
Marketing does not equal just sales. Exactly. It's so much more than that. It is your brand identity, essentially. so It's the entire brand identity. Like you just said, it's not just sales. It's sales. It's hiring. It's...
00:27:42
Speaker
um partnerships. It's yeah just networking. Let's say networking is something I missed. I'm glad you brought that up. But a lot of it is that. I know even this podcast for us has been awesome just because of even just networking, if nothing else. It's introduced me. This and YouTube both have introduced me and allowed for extended conversations with people.
00:28:02
Speaker
I don't know if they would have gave me an hour before. Maybe they would have. Yeah. But having this hour conversation on here and then staying on a little bit after has developed some great relationships. So I think that's also something people
Personal Sacrifices and Life Balance
00:28:13
Speaker
don't think about. Yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up.
00:28:16
Speaker
So let's move on to the personal side of being an entrepreneur. Obviously, you have to make sacrifices. You have to do a lot of things that you probably don't want to do.
00:28:28
Speaker
um So what are some stories over the past 17 years that you've I guess, sacrificed or some stuff you've had to do and for your company? Yeah, that's a good question. I think a lot of people, there's a lot of buzz around, you know, sacrifices and entrepreneurship. There's a lot of buzz around balance. And I don't want to downplay those.
00:28:51
Speaker
But I will say I would ask you to, not you, but I would ask the person to define balance. and I would ask the person to define sacrifice. Because the way I view it with the business, there were things I sacrificed, yes.
00:29:07
Speaker
um We did not have kids or even attempt to for the first decade. So we were in our low 30s before that was even a thought. And part of that was simply I knew as busy as I was at that time, probably wouldn't be the best dad.
00:29:23
Speaker
Not that i would have been a bad dad. I just didn't have the time to give. So that was something that was put off for a while. Um, probably didn't spend as much time with family, but at the same time, it was a sacrifice for a future experience, future ability to go do things that I wouldn't be able to do otherwise. yeah So, yeah, I guess by definition that would be a sacrifice.
00:29:47
Speaker
But at the same time, as far as balance is concerned, I think it's actually more prioritization. um I think there's going to be seasons in life where you're able to do a lot more of something.
00:30:00
Speaker
And I know when I started this company, my whole mindset then was, My wife was in law school at the time. My parents were both still working. So I didn't really, that was my people. You know, I had a few close friends, but they were all doing their thing. They were busy. Honestly, a lot of were busy kind of being dumb. So I decided I'm just gonna go all in. I have nothing else to lose at this point. yeah But that was a season of life where I was able to, I know a lot of people talk about doing 14, 15, 16 hour days and a lot of them were full of crap. And I say that because I know they do not start work at 6 a.m. and literally not stop it until 8. There's other things they're doing in that time frame. yeah
00:30:40
Speaker
I don't do that now, I will admit. I do not work 14-hour days. Worked plenty, but there's breaks in the middle. Anyway, I say that to say that back then when I say I worked 14-hour days, I actually worked 14-hour days.
00:30:52
Speaker
But that was a sacrifice I was able to do at that time. I didn't have kids. didn't have a wife. ah Everyone around me was busy. I had the ability to do that without sacrificing everything. kids time, parental time, family time, and all of that. yeah But what it has allowed now in this season of life is more time as a parent, more time as a son, more time doing health, fitness, and all other stuff.
00:31:17
Speaker
So I wouldn't say it was balanced. I would say it was a trade as more. And I think ultimately, I think you need to probably go back and say, I sit on the podcast, I didn't say it at work.
00:31:29
Speaker
It's faith, family, fitness, and then work. I think those are your four things. You've to pour into each of those buckets all the time. you know How I look at it is every day you may not have balance.
00:31:42
Speaker
Work may require, if you think if you have four buckets and you've got fill each and them up a quarter every day, there may be days you don't put anything into one of them. But guess what, later in the week, probably need to put a little bit of water back in that bucket over there. yeahp And I think you've got to look at it that way because at the end of the day, what ultimately what I do know, and I can think of a few times, so I'm fairly fit now 44.
00:32:04
Speaker
In 2009, which was a second year of business, I was not fit. I was fat. I was real fat. And the reason I got fat is because I put 100% of the business. I gave no care about anything else. So I had grown up in the gym from literally from junior high, high school, into college, started this business, and it required me to be on the road all the time.
00:32:23
Speaker
I didn't have money yet at the time. So i guess what I ate? Fast food. Guess what I did? Didn't work out. So it happened real quick within two years. and That was kind of a wake up for me that you can't just let anything completely go.
00:32:37
Speaker
So I do know looking back and I probably wasn't as effective, definitely didn't have the confidence. So I look back at that time and say, that's why it's important to have always be putting into your four buckets. Because if you let one of them go for too long, guess what it's going start doing? It's goingnna start draining those other buckets naturally. Yeah.
00:32:54
Speaker
And all of a sudden, those are going to fail. And all of a sudden, all four fail. So you've got to put in all four of them at one time. But as far as like experiences over the years and stuff like that, I don't regret any of it. I look back on it as i think Noah and I actually talked about this other their day at the gym.
00:33:09
Speaker
There's so many different seasons of life ye where I look back and like, man, now that I'm older, I'm a little bit better better able at being able to be in a season and realizing I'm in a season and actually just embracing it. be You know what?
00:33:23
Speaker
This has some pain. This has whatever. But yeah you know what? It's making me a better person. So I'm
Growth Through Challenges
00:33:28
Speaker
going to fight through it. I'm going to do it. Sometimes when you're younger, sometimes just in general, you may be going through a season and just be super negative about it and not be able to pull yourself out of it when all in reality, it's actually is and making you a better person is strengthening you in some way that you needed to be strengthened.
00:33:43
Speaker
I would say embrace it now as an older person. Um, because really when you think of like this older person that has like all this wisdom and grit and everything else, they didn't learn that through a textbook, they didn't learn that through a podcast or They learned it through life experiences. And I think you have to learn to embrace those life experiences and know you're going to walk through them. And I think one of the realities is as a society, I think with certain, don't want to say like Disney shows, but it's not a diss at Disney. But like there's some things in life where we almost portray that life is going to be a certain way.
00:34:18
Speaker
So then we kind of set kids and people up to expect that. Yeah. In all reality, we should be teaching people to expect, you're going to have good times, but you're also going to have, it's going to kick you. It's to kick the gut.
00:34:30
Speaker
And it may do it for a while. And I think when we do that, we're setting people up more for success long-term, especially if we then back that up with, hey, when you walk through those moments,
00:34:42
Speaker
You need to realize everyone does, number one. And number two, you to take a step back, put some faith in God, but then also ask, what am i needing to learn from this moment? So instead of feeling sorry for yourself, instead of wah-wahing and drinking or whatever your vice is that you want to use to get through it, just buckle down and realize there is a lesson in that hardship.
00:35:06
Speaker
And the more you face it head on and just realize this is what I'm supposed to be doing in this moment actually is dealing with it and learning. Dude, that is powerful. And I can think of for myself, I can think of other entrepreneur entrepreneurs.
00:35:18
Speaker
they grew the most during their hard seasons. And I know that's a buzzword as well, but it is 100% true. You grow the most during your hard seasons, and you grow the least during your better. And that's just the reality of it. yeah And I think if you can learn to say, hey, I don't want the hard seasons, but if they come, you know what, I'm going to view this as a challenge. I'm going to view it a challenge that, one, I'm going to make it through it, when some people don't.
00:35:40
Speaker
And two, I'm going to come out better on the other side. yeah so I really like what you touched on with the buckets. You have to put effort and into all the four of those buckets because I hear a lot of people say being an entrepreneur is stressful. Running a business is stressful, which is true. But I feel like if you have your buckets, if you have your values, what matters to you, and you are neglecting one or two of them, that's where the stress comes because that's what you're thinking about. You're thinking of that bucket you're not putting effort into. And I think you've been really good at that, even though your beard's turning gray. Yeah, yeah. They say that term stress. That happened at 42 for some reason. Got stressed at 42. Yes. um I think you've been really good at that, is filling those buckets. And I think some people need to hear that as well.
00:36:25
Speaker
Yeah. No, I think that's good. And I think when it comes to those, that you you mentioned, like, stress. And I will say, I think – unfortunately, or fortunately, maybe because it's fixable, a lot of times stress is self-induced.
00:36:40
Speaker
And it's usually self-induced because of neglect of us to to a certain priority in life. So if you have if you think about core values, core values aren't just for business or for life or your personal life.
00:36:51
Speaker
If we've neglected one or two of those, there's a little bit of guilt. There's a little bit of just like self, like, man, I'm not performing it at the highest level I need to. And you know it. You know it deep down. um I think that affects us. But I think a whole lot of stress is actually because of inaction.
00:37:08
Speaker
So we delay something. We put it off. yeah We just don't do it or whatever the case may be for whatever of those buckets. You know, I know a lot of people was like I don't have time to do.
00:37:20
Speaker
And I'm guilty of this. We do small group, as you're aware, you're in it. There's some Mondays I'm just like, I don't have time for this. And some days I don't make the time for it. yeah But then when i when I don't, I'm like, it's just an hour.
00:37:33
Speaker
I watch Netflix on Wednesday for an hour. If I did that, I could do this. So then that goes back to the prioritization. For the most part, we all have enough hours in the week.
00:37:43
Speaker
It may not be a lot of hours, yeah but we have the hours in the week to do those things. And that's what, when I talked earlier about being fat, originally it quit because I'm like, i don't really have the time. I travel all the time.
00:37:55
Speaker
If I go back to the hotel and watch a show, that's dumb. That is a benefit me in any way whatsoever. yeah So what did I do when I decided to make that switch, which is which was a very drastic switch on January 2009?
00:38:09
Speaker
it was just a complete 180 to where I didn't know if I even watched TV that next year because every moment I had, I was either in the gym or doing something with family. So I think that's the switch that you have to make is realizing somewhere I'm doing something that provides no benefit to my life.
00:38:27
Speaker
If I need an hour, if I need two hours, I do have a place I can put it right in that time slot. yep And now I've then put into my faith. I've then put into my business or fitness or whatever it is, family, loved
Final Advice for Contractors
00:38:40
Speaker
ones, whatever it is. yeah The time is typically there. i would just invite you to an evaluation of yourself and your time management.
00:38:48
Speaker
Be intentional with your time. Yeah. To wrap this up, so a lot of these guys are, like I said, they have – their business set up, but they're wanting to grow and be bigger. So if you could give them one piece of advice, one thing to work on, one action item um that will be very beneficial for them making that step, what do you think you would tell them?
00:39:10
Speaker
Oh, gosh, that's a good question. i don't know if I can do just one. There's too many. I think if I had to do one, and I think people, this is this this seems overly simplified.
00:39:21
Speaker
Be a good effing human. I think that fixes so much more than people realize. And when I say be a good human, I'm talking having the respect from others because of how you've lived your life.
00:39:35
Speaker
Being a person of action that when people say, hey, I got with Alex, I told Alex about this, they don't then have to question anymore. They know that Alex has it done and dealt with. Being a person that when, hey, you shake their hand and it's like hey let's do business together.
00:39:49
Speaker
They know, hey, this person is going to do it because they said they would. um Ethical side of things. I know this person is a good Christian or whatever it is, just a good person.
00:40:00
Speaker
I know they're going to be good to their word. I think being just a good human is probably, like I said, simply as simple. It's probably overly simplified, but I think it solves so many issues in our lives. If I had to say something outside of that, I would just go back to developing the systems processes before you think that you need them. A lot of people think, oh it's just me and two employees. I don't need those yet. Well, guess what? That's when you develop them.
00:40:25
Speaker
So you need to be writing that stuff down because if not, when you go to add that second crew, if you don't already have those or you're not cross-training them with that first crew, now you have two crews. Crew A shows up and performs the standards as you've done because you've worked with them one-on-one.
00:40:40
Speaker
The new Crew-2 shows up and all of a sudden your company gets bad readiness because they didn't do anything Crew-1 does and that you're known for as a company because you didn't have those systems and processes in place.
00:40:51
Speaker
Systems and processes can be software, it can be apps, whatever you need to gather from the field, scope of our ah s SOPs, it can be so many different things upon how that work is done but also what information is gathered.
00:41:04
Speaker
We talked a lot this podcast about numbers and finances stuff like that. That's a system in the process. We've talked in the past in podcasts about employees not going through and doing the work correctly.
00:41:15
Speaker
That could be solved by a system in the process. So many things can be solved by that. So I don't say that as being... kind of cliche or whatever, I say it because I've been there.
00:41:26
Speaker
I know it matters and it matters a lot. And that's something even us at our size currently, we're still continuing to constantly improve. Luckily, tech has drastically changed things in the last few years, especially from 17, 18 years ago.
00:41:44
Speaker
That's made this so much easier. cause i remember in the beginning, like, man, I wish I knew more about Microsoft Excel and all these spreadsheets. And we were decent at it, and I had someone decent on staff. That's a whole lot harder to do than, you know, buying an app and just entering stuff that way. So embrace the technology that all of you have in today's world. But at the of the day,
00:42:04
Speaker
Be a good human. Yep. I think that's a good point to leave it out on. Brent, quote, be you good effing human. Be a good human being. That will solve a lot of issues in life. But other than than that, just be a person of action. Be a person that says, number one, says or or does what they say they're going to do. And number two, that people know, hey, when I give this person something to get done,
00:42:26
Speaker
They're going to get it done. Or if they can't, they're going to communicate it to me. I'll give a brief little story about not communicating. So I had a virtual doctor's appointment the other day. Sit on the call for 25 minutes.
00:42:37
Speaker
No doctor came on. That pisses me off. Because then I feel like the person is saying, hey, my time is a lot more valuable than your time. So I emailed the only contact I had. said, hey, is this guy still joining?
00:42:50
Speaker
They said, oh, I think he's busy with another client. Okay, great. Why did I have to reach out to you to ask that question? Why am I on hold for 25 minutes yeah wondering whether or not you guys remembered me?
00:43:04
Speaker
I didn't have the time for that that day. communicate i brought up communications while I'm going here. Communication was everything. They should have reached out after five minutes and said, hey, the doctor's running.
00:43:14
Speaker
We think 15 minutes late. We'll give you another update in a second. That is the kind of stuff. So I have no trust in that place anymore. And honestly, I will not use that clinic for anything because I don't trust them and because they kind of downplayed, hey, we get it, but he's busy. Please understand.
00:43:33
Speaker
And then when I got off the call, they never followed up. I hung up. They never then followed up to rebook it. To say, hey, did he ever jump on? Nothing. It's just been crickets. Wow. That's just this now' not how you do business. So anyway, I share that one to say communicate. It's that simple.
00:43:49
Speaker
Communication is everything. Yeah. Guys, if you enjoyed this podcast, please do share it. Jump on our Facebook group. If you're not already, like Alex said, we've got around 3,000 members. We want more. The more that's in there, the more feedback and networking opportunities there is. So guys, jump in there if you haven't already. But otherwise, we'll catch you next time.