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What Actually Motivates Your Employees
79 Plays24 days ago
In this episode of The Better Contractor Podcast, host Brent is joined by Mike Whalen of the Beyond the Belt podcast and DBS Remodel to discuss the critical challenges of attracting, training, and retaining high-quality workers in the trades. Drawing from over 25 years of experience, Mike provides a boots-on-the-ground perspective on transitioning from a business owner to a project manager and leadership team member.
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Transcript
Hiring Self-Starters and Business Owners
00:00:00
Speaker
kind of what you said where you guys try to hire maybe previous owners is a lot of times those are self starters so there are people who they get an idea they immediately just go into it and start doing whatever it is they don't necessarily have to be told hey here is your outline do this then do this then do this they see the bigger picture and then they move towards that picture so I like that idea.
00:00:36
Speaker
right guys well welcome back to another edition of the better contractor podcast today i'm joined by mike wland with beyond the belt podcast mike how are you doing well good to be here bright Hey, I'm glad to have you on here. So, you know, a lot of our podcasts in the past, you know, a lot of times there's owners on here, people at that level, and we're talking through different issues. And this time we're going to have a project manager on there who is actually out in the field every single day with crews. And our goal there is, i think every contractor I talk to, there's one resounding theme, and that is, i need to find good workers and I can't find them.
00:01:13
Speaker
So we all know they're out there.
Mike's Journey into the Trades
00:01:15
Speaker
So that means you have to attract and then you need to retain them. Um, sometimes you have to coach, uh, those employees as well. So talk to Mike a little bit today about some KPIs and motivation, all these various things and, uh, see if we can get some nuggets of wisdom there to kind of help you guys out. So Mike, let's just start off with just you telling us just a little bit about yourself, your background, kind of what your day to day looks like.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, sure. I, um, Always knew I wanted to be in the trades. And like we mentioned, went to trade school. And then after trade school, just bounced around to different things, residential, commercial, did some land surveying.
00:01:54
Speaker
And then over the years, just like many, um wanted to go out on my own and just felt like I could i could do it based on what I knew.
00:02:06
Speaker
But looking back, this was 25 years ago or more. i You know, you don't know what you don't know.
Challenges in Starting a Business
00:02:12
Speaker
And it's tough in business. You think you can do the craft and that you that could be enough.
00:02:19
Speaker
And if you just charge a certain amount of money that you think you need, then it should work. But then it's just that crash course on what you need eat as far as accounting. You know, you're going out doing estimates, marketing.
00:02:32
Speaker
And it's just overwhelming, but I did it for probably four or five years of making it work. It was before kids, before bigger responsibilities and ah of owning a home so I could take the risk.
00:02:46
Speaker
But I just realized that there was a lot of risk. I was looking, you know, at the time, you know, my wife, we were together looking to get married, settle down. And for me, I just felt like I needed to know more.
Joining DBS Remodel and Career Growth
00:03:03
Speaker
Long story short, 24 years ago, ran in into the owner of this company, DBS Remodel, that I work for now. And he he recruits those, or looks to recruit those that have their own business and are just tired of the grind.
00:03:23
Speaker
And he wants to recruit them because you then you have or an appreciation for what it's like to run a business, The things that a lot of times you can't necessarily teach what that feeling's like of being at risk, possibly losing a lot of money, going into debt.
00:03:44
Speaker
So that's been, that's worked for him for many years. Not that that's all he's hired. he He hasn't just hired those that have had their own business, but that's definitely on the radar more so.
00:04:00
Speaker
for that reason, because you can come in and that's what's worked for me over the years and the position I'm in now in a leadership role. And that's developed over the years. It didn't just happen right when I started working here at DBS.
00:04:16
Speaker
It took years to acclimate to their process, the systems they have in place, and those have developed as well over the years as they should in a company. But um for him, he had been in business for probably 15 years. So he had things dialed in, organized, which I liked.
00:04:38
Speaker
There's a lot of disorganization with other companies I work for. could just be chaos or organized chaos. So just over the years, I've just helped with recruiting.
00:04:51
Speaker
As we were talking about, you know, I manage other employees, new employees, training. What can we do to allow them to advance within the company?
00:05:03
Speaker
How do we do that? Having a skills ladder so that they can see, have measurables to get from.
Scaling the Business with Leadership Teams
00:05:11
Speaker
If they do come in, let's say as a laborer, as an apprentice, do they have a clear path on where they can get to?
00:05:20
Speaker
Can they get to that role they want to get? Maybe it's a project manager. as In our situation, it's lead carpenter. which is a project manager, but still doing the craft bags on depending on the type of project, how big the project is.
00:05:39
Speaker
So that's where I fit now after being here for 24 years, I'm still in that same role as a lead carpenter project manager, but we have a leadership team of six of us, including the owner.
00:05:55
Speaker
And as the company has scaled over the years, he knows he needs that. He needs another team to help him out. Because for one owner to be able to work on the company, you're going to need that bandwidth. You're going to need someone else attending to other things in the company.
Understanding and Using KPIs
00:06:15
Speaker
And just like anything, we all have our strengths as far as what we work on, but we all talk about and learn about the business. So I've learned more about those KPIs, those measurables,
00:06:28
Speaker
um about what numbers we have to hit, gross profit, what's the net profit for us. It's different for different companies. The estimating and knowing your numbers, those kind of things that I wouldn't be the expert on it. it would be our it would be Bob on our leadership leadership team.
00:06:50
Speaker
He's the numbers guy, but we have our dashboard we look at every month. And I just learned that and me knowing that I can just use that to help on my end in the field and and help keep the company healthy and strong.
00:07:07
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's good. One of the things that kind of stuck out in the very beginning when you were talking there was You know, personally, we've always kind of talked internally about like EOS operating systems, you know, the entrepreneurial operating system.
00:07:20
Speaker
And the more that you can do that and hire people that succeed in that, the reason that that works is kind of what you said, where you guys try to hire maybe previous owners is a lot of times those are self starters. So there are people who they get an idea, they immediately just go into it and start doing whatever it is.
00:07:38
Speaker
They don't necessarily have to be told, hey, here is your outline. Do this, then do this, then do this. They see the bigger picture and then they move towards that picture. So I like that idea of kind of doing it that way where you're kind of bringing those people that naturally have that a little bit in.
00:07:54
Speaker
um But one thing I wanted to mention, you brought up a skills ladder. I was curious how you guys use that to kind of motivate people. and and get people like, Hey, I need to do this and then I can do this. And how do you guys use that?
Employee Motivation and Advancement
00:08:10
Speaker
Well, again, depending on where they're at, as far as their skill level level, which we would assess. So they would come in and that's, I've been doing that actually the past couple of weeks to this other, other guy that came in and he had more experience.
00:08:27
Speaker
So it's just bringing them right in and having them work, but not just letting them go and doing anything, just giving a bite size stuff, doing a, like I said, a kitchen.
00:08:40
Speaker
So where it was the beginning stages of, of doing demo and prep, looking over the plans and just having a lot of communication, a lot of feedback and explaining how we do things. So it's just getting engaged for someone's,
00:08:58
Speaker
experience their skill level. And then from there, you can basically see where they're at and where they need to where they need to be. And for us, there will be specifics to where they need to get to through training.
00:09:13
Speaker
So for us, it's customer service is number one. You know, if you have excellent crown molding and you can do phenomenal joints on things and stairs, that's great.
00:09:26
Speaker
But we have to touch on customer service. So that goes into the training. And as you know, you can get a a feel for someone's experience with relating to the client, cleanliness, politeness, and trust.
00:09:41
Speaker
That's just what, that's our our motto with what we do. So it starts there when we're in a home doing strictly remodeling, protecting everything, dust protection, just going through all of that.
00:09:55
Speaker
So this, we have everything outlined that's in our global documents. I mean, we have, we use BuilderTrend as far as a program. So it's all in there that they can see.
00:10:08
Speaker
And we would check off the list based on their training.
Training and Performance Tracking
00:10:12
Speaker
And then as far as their skill level, we can work on that. And then we would have myself or other lead carpenters sign off on a sheet when they feel they're proficient in certain parts of the projects that we do.
00:10:27
Speaker
So it could be a kitchen, it could be a bathroom. And again, with all this kind communication, if someone comes in and they had their own business strictly doing kitchens and bathrooms, we'd probably just line them up, which we do a lot of kitchens and bathrooms.
00:10:43
Speaker
So we'd line them up to if they're going to work themselves up to running projects and being a lead carpenter, We probably just keep them in kitchens and bathrooms because that's their comfort zone. That's what they're familiar with.
00:10:56
Speaker
If they want to branch out and maybe start doing covered porches, screen porches, then that's a whole other part of the training and that's going to take longer.
00:11:07
Speaker
So it's that balance as well based on what we're doing, where we can fit in the training while we're working. And we just have a checklist of depending on the path they want to take. Again, it's a lot of communication. Where do you want to be?
00:11:23
Speaker
do you want to run a job? We have one one guy that just wants to do tile. So he's our in-house tile guy. Can he do other things? He can. He can branch off, do some trim, do some different things. And he's learning, but it's that's what it's finding out where they want to be, where they want to go on that path to that skills ladder. So we have the basics of what we want them to know as far as the company's concerned and then what they need to know based on the projects they're going to be working on.
00:11:56
Speaker
Okay. How often are reviewing them and kind of going over that? Well, have a meeting with them once a month and they train before hours. So it's optional. we We give them the option to come in at seven o'clock till eight o'clock to train at our office.
00:12:19
Speaker
It's every Tuesday morning for those that want to advance. And if they don't, then they just don't come to the training. So we make things available. And then that's that's even strict.
00:12:31
Speaker
So if you're late to the training, you know, that's an intangible right there. You got to be on time. If you want to be, you know, if you want to be a manager running these jobs, just doing the training and how you show up is goingnna is going to tell a lot about whether you can, you're going able to do it or not. So it's one more measurable to check off. Are you on time?
00:12:55
Speaker
Are you doing what the training is involved? And so right there, we're, we're seeing them every week, those that want to move on the career ladder. And once a month, we have a meeting with those that aren't leads, those that are, we call them ACEs,
00:13:14
Speaker
But there are second carpenters that could be apprentices. So we have a meeting once a month and we just get that feedback. We go over things, what they should be working on safety.
00:13:26
Speaker
You know, there's in the agenda, there's the, the subjects that are or there every month. So we'll go over safety, customer service, explain to them the, what each lead carpenter is looking at every week. Cause we,
00:13:44
Speaker
Each one of our jobs, there's a certain amount of hours applied to that job that I would get. So, for instance, I'm on a kitchen and bathroom. Right when I start that job, I could know that I have six hundred and thirty hours to from start to finish.
00:14:03
Speaker
And every Monday i get an update as far as the estimated versus actual where am I? right now as far as hours are concerned. And obviously if I have two or four people on the job, that's going to double or quadruple the hours that I'm chewing up in a week.
00:14:20
Speaker
So it's explaining to all these second carpenters, apprentices, you got to be aware of these hours. You got to be efficient.
00:14:31
Speaker
And why is it important to the lead? Because at the end of that job, they do a job review. and they see where I came in on hours.
00:14:42
Speaker
And it's not gonna be any surprise because every it's broadcasted every Monday through a group text. So we're trying to pass on the urgency to the others that work on the job. why Understanding what the stress is for that project manager to bring that job in on on time and on budget.
00:15:05
Speaker
And then we can get into change orders and handling the money with the client, how important those things are. So that's just all part of where they need to be. And I would just say that by gauging that there is measurables, but, ah but then you also go by their habits, how they've been.
00:15:25
Speaker
There's those that are just taking initiative. They're thinking ahead before you even have to tell them. So as you know, there's, there's instincts that you can just tell, okay,
00:15:37
Speaker
This one's really dialed in and I can start to have trust and the confidence to possibly let them do more and eventually run their own jobs, which we've been successful in.
00:15:52
Speaker
In three of the seven have started at that stage of just knowing the basics and working their way up to now they're they're running projects, full house renovations, but it's little little by little bite size pieces and some are just like anything learn faster than others.
00:16:14
Speaker
As you were talking there Mike one thing you mentioned was measurables and I think a lot of the companies that really really nail it here they're sitting down weekly like you mentioned they're going over the hours they're going over issues with the job maybe customer requests or customer complaints but it's that weekly touch base where you can correct things before you get two, three, four, five weeks into the project. Now of a sudden it's too late to correct them.
00:16:39
Speaker
But you mentioned measurables and that made me think about KPIs. So I was curious what KPIs you guys do and then how often you review those. And then we'll start to tie in maybe like incentives or some kind of motivation. I'm curious to see what you guys do. So a lot of companies will have, you know, core values or they'll have, you know, KPIs they review.
00:16:59
Speaker
Sometimes the missing link is there's no reward for the employee. So first we'll we'll talk about KPIs and kind of what you're doing there. Right. Yes. We have measurables. Like I said, there'll there'll be a job review when it's closed out.
00:17:13
Speaker
So whatever I'm doing, kitchen, bathroom addition. So there's a complete review of my hours, materials, as far as what was, it's all estimated versus actual.
00:17:26
Speaker
The trade partners, So the electrician, the plumbers, there's an estimated amount. We call it allowance. There's an allowance of what their budget's going to be.
00:17:39
Speaker
You know, how did that come in? Because I'm responsible for that. There is the gross profit and how that came in. That's with everything combined.
00:17:51
Speaker
And our target is 40%. So again, that could be different for other companies. That's just been what works and what allows us to have the net profit that we have at the end of the year.
00:18:05
Speaker
So those are the KPIs that we focus on as far as a manager. There's other measurables as far as, like I said, with BuilderTrend, there's daily logs that we need to post every day, pictures of the job.
00:18:20
Speaker
They were accountable for doing that. There's a schedule we have to load up into BuilderTrend and show where we are every week or every, if we can forecast far enough into months, that's going to be, we're going to be accountable for that. Are we doing that?
00:18:41
Speaker
Are change orders, are we posting our change orders timely manner? And we're not waiting till the end of this project to present that to, for what us, for us would be the sales consultant,
00:18:55
Speaker
you know, it was the owner, it was Brian, he would go out, he would do, he would sell the jobs. And, you know, then anyone, lead carpenter would then have to give him all the information to bring back, but it's all during the
Incentives and Employee Retention
00:19:10
Speaker
project. So there's no surprises at the end.
00:19:13
Speaker
We have four other sales consultant in our, in the sales department. It depends on who I'm working with based on the project on who sold what, but I have to make sure that Throughout the project, there can't be any surprises at the end. I can't say, well, just to let you know, we're all done, but the electrical allowance went over $4,000. And then there's nothing that that, you know, it's a difficult conversation going back to the homeowner and just saying, listen, you owe this much more.
00:19:49
Speaker
But it's capturing it along the way and saying, You know, they added five more recessed lights. We had to put in a new sub panel because the original panel was maxed out.
00:20:00
Speaker
And I'm just submitting that as soon as I get it so that not only the sales consultant knows about it, but the homeowner knows about it. And there's no surprises along the way. So all this is reviewed at the end of the job. Did you capture all the change orders?
00:20:20
Speaker
The electrical allowance, is it on? Is it over? Was I able to, we call it buying down, was able to buy anything down based on the allowance. So perfect example would be tile.
00:20:32
Speaker
There can be an allowance for tile. We have tile trade partners that I can bring in. And I just know the, you know, some, Or just based on their prices, I'll get a price for for what they can do it for in a bathroom, let's say.
00:20:49
Speaker
And i can do it for less than the allowance, which can give us a little wiggle room in the whole project. So then if the plumbing does go over, for some reason, we just have a little bit of of room to play if we do get into a situation to where what we estimated wasn't enough.
00:21:11
Speaker
And it's just navigating through that. But I'd say that's the KPIs we we stick to the most. I mean, there's little things here and there.
00:21:23
Speaker
But the gross profit, you can't get away from that. that You can't hide that. The hours on a job is something that's, again, tracked through.
00:21:33
Speaker
We have workforce used to be T-sheets, so we punch in. It shows our hours on the job, punching on the certain jobs that we're on. So it's tracked through a portal, of course, that everyone can see in the office.
00:21:50
Speaker
And like I said, materials to the smallest amount of measurable measurables possible on that job. And it's just through that, um at the end of the job review, like that job audit,
00:22:08
Speaker
that autopsy, I guess, to show that. yeah Are you guys doing a reward or incentive system based upon those KPIs and those reviews? And if so, what is it? We used to do bonuses. So if we were under a certain amount of hours, that would calculate to a certain amount of money, you know, for a bonus at the end of the job.
00:22:31
Speaker
And then we would, you know, as a lead carpenter, I'd have, certain carpenters that would work on that job. And it was just up to me whether I would then more or less share that or give some of that to those carpenters that were on the job.
00:22:48
Speaker
you know And then it just led to, it was some conflicting things. I think it's always hard. you know What can you do so that it's quote unquote fair? How do you do this? So then it became profit sharing and it's just discretionary profit sharing.
00:23:04
Speaker
And you could say, well, how can I get the max amount of profit sharing? Well, it's just hitting those measurables, hitting those KPIs, coming in. And again, you could say, and it's come up in in meetings, you could say, okay, well, there's some jobs that i can only control so much.
00:23:23
Speaker
I couldn't control the weather when we got all that snow on that addition we were doing. So now I'm taking a hit on being productive, going over hours,
00:23:33
Speaker
Maybe I didn't hit the profit percentage I was supposed to, and it happens. I mean, they're not always perfect to get some ones that just don't come in as well. So again, it's discretionary based on hitting other measurables as well, keeping up with daily logs, keeping up with all those other things that I mentioned.
00:23:53
Speaker
And then we can all take part across the board in the company. Now, my profit sharing, being on leadership team, being here, being a tenured employee is going to be a little different than someone that's been here for two years and they're not a lead.
00:24:11
Speaker
So again, it's discretionary, but it's also based on their measurables and how they're adding up, like i said, with the training, how they're advancing.
00:24:22
Speaker
And that comes up in ah in a review. We do mid we're doing mid year reviews right now and being on leadership, I'll have four employees that I'm reviewing. And we'll go through that and we'll just say, listen, you know, you were late six times and it could be a valid excuse. Could be doctors, could be something with family. And we're very flexible with that.
00:24:46
Speaker
But all these things are not every time someone's late, someone's not just behind them with a notepad, not that kind of thing. But you could just tell. who may be taking advantage of some things.
00:24:58
Speaker
And that's noted through a mid-year review. And of course, at the end, and end of the year review, just to keep up on this stuff. Yeah, I think that's good. I think that's a lot of things, something a lot of contractors have struggled with is how to do those reviews. You know, like you said, it is profit based mainly, you have an estimator or a bidder that's out there. If that's not your general formula your project lead,
00:25:24
Speaker
if that person messed up and they're not an accurate bid, well, then that hurts obviously the job because then that project manager is constantly sitting there trying to play catch up for a bid that wasn't bid accurately. And then in that situation, they would be the one that is dinged.
00:25:38
Speaker
um So I like the idea of looking at a lot of different scenarios. So I know like, we've been battling and trying to figure out a system for us. A lot of our employees travel. um You may be on one project for three months. You may be on another one for two days. So you have that huge variation. So I think the profit,
00:25:55
Speaker
sharing because at the end of the day, you know, as a company, that is what matters that is what keeps the doors open. That is what makes you still be here in 10 years. But I think looking at that as a one of the pillars, maybe safety is one of those as well.
00:26:10
Speaker
um Maybe as customer experience. And sometimes those are a little bit harder to measure. Because some customers are less likely to to complain. You know, some customers are less likely to fill out a survey, for example.
00:26:22
Speaker
Some customers love to complain. So, you know, do you ding your project lead and your team over that one that was probably going to find something either way? So I think you're right in saying that there's a whole multitude of things to look at.
00:26:34
Speaker
Which then kind of brings me to my next question. So... A lot of people will ask like, well, what do field employees, what is it that makes them tick? Is it the pay? Is it flexibility?
00:26:46
Speaker
ah Is it, you know, being able to, you know, have a day off here and there to go spend time with your family? What do you kind of find is like the top maybe two or three motivating things that allow you to say, hey this is what makes this company better than maybe our competition because we provide this to you.
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah, sure. It's a definitely pay of course. number one, but but flexibility with family. And, you know, what I've seen just over the years is that for a company, if you're one organized, because that's what attracted me to where I work now.
00:27:24
Speaker
The owner, Brian's very organized. He has the SOP standard operating procedures in place, processes in place. So you're not guessing. It's not aggravating coming in.
00:27:36
Speaker
And you're putting out fires and everyone's aggravated. So when you're coming and you have a nice culture to work in and and it's almost not synonymous with construction or remodeling many times, you hear all the horror stories and everything.
00:27:53
Speaker
But when you can come in and have a nice organized, clean place to work with nice tools, it just makes it enjoyable. And then, like I said, you have that path that you can show someone that's coming to work for your company, so a path to where they are and say, if you want to, you can move up. And with moving up, you can make more money.
00:28:18
Speaker
I think anywhere you work, everyone would want to know that and hear that, that they're starting at a company and there's an opportunity to advance somewhere.
00:28:30
Speaker
And then the flexibility, that's what's kept me here with a family. My kids are older now. You know, my i have a son, that's 14. My daughter's 19. When they were young, there was nothing better than being able to maybe come in a little late if I had to something. They were sick, had to drop them off or a doctor's appointment and maybe I'd stay late or vice versa.
00:28:55
Speaker
I'd come in early and maybe dip out a little early in the day because they had something going on at school, maybe a play or maybe sports.
00:29:06
Speaker
But at the same time, I would make sure that my job was was still running the way it should, keeping it organized. And the only way I was able to have that trust and that flexibility was I was still bringing in those numbers. I was still on top of customer service.
00:29:23
Speaker
There wasn't phone calls to the office saying, you know, this was left on, I got a leak here. no nothing like that. It just, that flexibility having family has been big for a lot of our employees as well, because then, um, you know, it's a priority in everybody's life.
00:29:44
Speaker
So that's, I'd say those three things has allowed, has attracted people. And at the same time, kept people here for many years. Yeah, I think it's important to know as an owner is is that exactly. So what may motivate you as an owner or even just you individually may be different than what your team wants. So I think knowing what your team wants in terms of that advancement and the the benefits and stuff like that is important. But I think overall you've laid out kind of a good format and program. So if you look at like, and we mainly talked about
00:30:17
Speaker
people that we're we're trying to keep, that we already have, that we that we already employ. And you talked about training. So with training, most good employees will want to advance. They want to learn more. They want to do more next year than they did this year.
00:30:30
Speaker
So I think having that training program is more formal. That shows that, you know, stepping up the ladder. But I think then having that ladder of advancement that they know and can see that, hey, I want to be there one day. And here is what I need to do in order to get to there.
00:30:45
Speaker
And then knowing a little bit, at least vaguely, this is the dollar amount. but When I go up that ladder, this is what I can kind of expect. And as a company, you can have variations there. You can have degrees there based upon skill and drive and all these other factors.
00:31:01
Speaker
But it at least shows how to advance here. And then, like you said, I think having to pay in a structure with incentives and KPIs where you're going through and you're evaluating quite routinely with those those employees like, hey, this is what you did well.
00:31:13
Speaker
And maybe here's what you didn't do so well. And here's how you can get, you know, so talk to them about what they want to do, where they want to be, and then say, hey, in order to get there, not only do you have to do this training, but you also have these things that you need to address before we meet again.
00:31:28
Speaker
And I think that is excellent as far as getting employees to stay and be engaged and be involved. And obviously, again, you got to have culture. So my next question then is more about attracting
Recruitment Strategies
00:31:40
Speaker
employees. So before we jump on the podcast, you mentioned trade schools and kind of your involvement there. Obviously, you have a podcast as well. So I'm kind of curious.
00:31:49
Speaker
How much of your recruitment comes from like the trade school? How much do you think comes from like, you know, engagement, you know, via online? Just kind of curious where you've seen success there.
00:32:01
Speaker
yeah it's a little bit through the trade school where we've had some come in. We advertise like many others to where it's just grassroots, putting in a sign at a deli where you're going to have people coming in and out.
00:32:16
Speaker
a sign in front of the shop. You know, we have a good exposure where we are, where our shop is. That's helped and worked. Social media has worked as far as just having, just grabbing a camera and being on the job site next to a saw and then making a video. And I've done it to where I'm just standing by the saw, the trailer's in the back of me.
00:32:39
Speaker
And I just said, Hey, if you want to join the DBS team, We're looking for a lead carpenter or we're looking for a carpenter, whatever the case may be. And boom, it's just short and sweet. And you send it out there.
00:32:50
Speaker
And we've had a lot of success through that, through someone knowing someone, the customer, customer's relative. We got a couple of those because the customers just say, hey, you got to work for this company.
00:33:03
Speaker
So not only are we marketing for work, but we're always marketing for those that may want to work here or have an interest in working here. And even if I just had actually one of our lumber deliveries come couple days ago for the job that I'm on and we got to talking and he was in construction in the trades and just now delivers for a lumber yard because things shifted on his end for the company he was working for.
00:33:34
Speaker
And we're just always recruiting. So we want, I told them, I said, come on into the office. Are we hiring right now? No, not at the moment, but we could be next week. We never know what's going to happen.
00:33:47
Speaker
Someone could just let us know that they're giving us two weeks. It doesn't happen all the time, but as you know, it could just happen. So we're always recruiting and always having that relationship talking to, okay, you know, I've been talking to Chris, Chris is working here.
00:34:03
Speaker
could be a couple months go down the road. Hey, Chris, let's go out to lunch. How you doing? hey And it's just those that and and it's not for every everyone. You just know that one person you meet, how they present themselves, how they carry themselves, where they work, what their ambitions are. is like, whoa, you're checking a lot of boxes here. i want to stay in touch with them so that When the time comes, I want to reach out to them. And if the stars align, we can grab them and have them
The Role of Emotional Intelligence in Leadership
00:34:33
Speaker
come in. So we don't want to wait until we need that salesperson and just be like, we're scrambling.
00:34:39
Speaker
Let's get that relationship to where someone that was interested, even if we're not hiring, keep them in the mix, in the loop, invite them to like, we're having an open house this Thursday.
00:34:50
Speaker
Come on down, check it out. Just keep them in the family, have that deep roster because it can change in their hard. They're hard to find, as you know, it's hard. And once you once you see them come along, you don't want to lose them.
00:35:04
Speaker
And if you have them, you definitely want to keep them. And I would just add to that when we have them, there's a part of it that we've learned over the years that has to be the the emotional quotient to it.
00:35:15
Speaker
ah Having that emotional intelligence. We have a lot of personalities. on the team and you get that chatter and someone starts and no one's perfect. It looks great on social media and it can look perfect, but there's things going on. Somebody says something, somebody is upset with somebody.
00:35:36
Speaker
We just found that it's, it's getting on top of that right away. Hey, let's call that person. but Maybe you got to just take them out for an egg sandwich on the way in. Hey, can you meet me at this deli on the way in? I just want, want to buy an egg sandwich.
00:35:51
Speaker
And then just right by the tailgate, having a cup of coffee. Listen, man, I know you're upset at this, but tell me more about it. something that it's It's like you can be a great lead carpenter. You can have excellent skills in roof framing, stairs, crown molding.
00:36:10
Speaker
But no one taught us how how to relate to these other employees. There was no lessons in trade school. And that's what I tell the students. None of us want to do that. Guys don't want to talk. They just want to fight it out.
00:36:25
Speaker
But you're going to need that to survive and keep these employees working here and this company to stay healthy and like healthy and strong, like I said before. Yeah. I think that's huge. and we actually did a podcast on emotional intelligence for that very reason. I don't think enough people in the trades realize that that is kind of a little bit of an issue. I'm sure it's not just our industry, but I know we're guilty of it. Most all of our competition is guilty of it. Most contractors are guilty of it.
00:36:51
Speaker
But like you said, you have this amazing, whether whether for us, like it's an operator, for you, it's more of a tradesperson. And they just kick butt. Like they are good at what they do. And eventually they've been there five, 10 years. And naturally you want to put them into more of a leadership position.
00:37:07
Speaker
And we've seen some times where that has flourished and done well. And we've seen other times where it has failed miserably because they're not a leader. And, you know, so i think in order to be a leader, you have to be effective and you need to be an effective communicator.
Social Media for Recruiting and Networking
00:37:22
Speaker
and I've met some people who, you know, they're afraid to necessarily have those tough conversations with their crew because at the end of the day,
00:37:28
Speaker
That crew is like family. They've been together at minimum eight hours a day, sometimes for years. And just like with any of us, those become your friends, become your family. And it's difficult to have those tough conversations when it's that way.
00:37:42
Speaker
But there is a way to do it And I think that's where the emotional intelligence comes in, is being able to deliver that harder news in an an effective way where they don't hate you at the end the day and they actually want to do better as a result. But you mentioned social media earlier, night and I liked the way you you kind of looked at it is more of like in a raw format. So it's like you guys actually out in the field. um And I think in the trades industry, a lot of people think, okay, social media, and that is for my customer.
00:38:10
Speaker
Most the time, people probably are not following you if they're not in the industry. You know, a customer is gonna log in, they're gonna wanna do a little bit of research before they hire you maybe. They look at your social feed to make sure you're legit.
00:38:24
Speaker
Right. Who normally follows you? When I go through hours, a lot of it's competition or it's other people in the field or it's, you know, employees of other companies or our own employees. That's generally who follows. So I think your mindset of doing that, that raw, real content with, you know, yourself or maybe guys in the field. so I was just kind of curious, what do you guys I apologize. I did not look at your social feed before I jumped on here. But what do you guys do for that? Like, is that you just jumping on shooting? Is it other employees as well?
00:38:56
Speaker
What's that kind of look like for you guys? Yeah, sometimes it's just a quick video and loading that up. Or it's just, you know, a still photo, just a picture of someone in the field just saying we're hiring whatever position that may be.
00:39:14
Speaker
Just to put it out there, like you said, it's a mix of who's seeing the social media. There is a lot of clients. There's a lot of people that do the same work. I know I do that. You know, um ah my feed is, you know, a lot of different things, but it's a lot of what I do because you're constantly looking at different things.
00:39:33
Speaker
So it's just could be a quick video, but just hitting it on as many platforms as possible because I think we could just use that to our advantage. for the ring to be, or it could be a customer that does see it and maybe they have a nephew and they're like, holy cow, they are hiring, you know, so that it works hand in hand and just gets the word out so much easier, I think.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. what What platform do you guys see the most success on for recruiting? It's Facebook and Instagram. Yeah. That's where we would get the most messages coming back. I mean, there's, um you know, not so much like on YouTube,
00:40:14
Speaker
um those are the two platforms I'd say that would be the most because they could just be a quick message from someone yeah yeah what yeah so Mike we've touched on a lot of different topics but now I kind of want to just throw it generically in your court and see what you think we missed so what have we not talked about that you can speak to think we had a good overview of, you know, really what's needed. and And like I said to you before, it's not that we have all the answers or I have all the answers, but over the years, and it's talking to, because we have, you know, there's a lot of network groups.
00:40:57
Speaker
It was like builder twenties that some people get involved in. you network with other companies that do what you do and we do a remodeler's round table,
00:41:08
Speaker
And there for us, there's NARI, the National Association of Remodelers Industry, to where you can just brainstorm with other people, like you said, old school, they were you know, you thought you were you wanted to keep things close to the best because of your competitors.
00:41:27
Speaker
But really, you're going to have enough work with what you're doing and how you do it. And that's what we found by having these roundtables. to where we could have these other companies come in and just talk about what they're struggling with. And a lot of it's the same.
00:41:43
Speaker
lot of it is just personalities or it could be trade partners because the the trades and other companies, as you elevate your company, other companies you work with may not be doing that.
00:41:59
Speaker
So you're trying to bring these other companies, either other trade partners, electricians, plumbers, painters, drywall, trying to bring them to the caliber that you're at can be challenging.
00:42:11
Speaker
You know, we could say you you got to be doing this with the client. You got to do this protection. You got to follow up with this communication. And it's just always a challenge. But what I found is that how you carry yourself and how the business operates at that professional level, it's contagious and people want to be a part of it.
00:42:37
Speaker
And just always remember that. And we tell our guys this, if you're driving company truck or if you have, you know, what we all have the company shirts on. Yeah.
00:42:50
Speaker
If you're standing in a deli getting a sandwich, if you're at the gas station, if you're driving those trucks, you're still representing the company and what you say, what you do, you can, you know, and we take now I'm aware of it. So I'll, you I'll buy someone's sandwich at the deli.
00:43:07
Speaker
buy someone one a cup of coffee, it just goes a long way. you know, there's social media, there's, there's what you advertise, but what you do when you're not being watched goes a long way.
Industry Collaboration and Conclusion
00:43:20
Speaker
And I guess I I'd say that cause I just thought about it today, just with, uh, another company that was pulling out of a gas station and how they were treating someone else, just cutting them off, yelling at them. And it's just like, you realize what you're doing?
00:43:34
Speaker
Do you realize what you're doing? Your numbers on the side of the truck, And you can have bad news travels a heck of a lot faster than good news. Yeah. So it's just something else to be aware of.
00:43:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good point that your marketing is not just ah on social media. Sometimes it's out there in real life. So like you said, at a gas station, you know, how clean is the truck? what is What's the crew? You know, did they, when they got out of the truck, did they throw some of the trash away that was in the truck? Or did they open the door and a bunch of old water bottles fell out? You know, stuff like that does matter a lot. And I know,
00:44:08
Speaker
you know, locally there's contractors I've picked for stuff and stuff I've used because of how it's presented, you know, when I see it out in public, cause it matters. So now that's a very, very good point. Yeah.
00:44:20
Speaker
Well, Mike, I appreciate your time today, man. Uh, we're little over 40 minutes in. So, um, where can people find you? Well, me personally, I'm on, I'm on Instagram mostly under, uh,
00:44:32
Speaker
Mike Whalen, 1823. I mean, that's my personal page. That's where I post things for me personally for our company. It's DBS remodel.
00:44:45
Speaker
And that's on all the platforms, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. And, um, yeah, that's where we're at, at a New York, like I said, just about an hour North of New York city.
00:44:58
Speaker
And, um, If you're local, you know, reach out. But even if not, like I said, I love to connect, love to network. Brent, been following you, caught a bunch of your podcasts. You got good stuff out there. Like I said, it doesn't matter how long you've been in it. I could say I've been on it this X amount of years.
00:45:16
Speaker
You got a lot of great nuggets on there from your perspective with what you do. And this is another reason why I like what we do, whether it's big stuff like you're doing or remodeling.
00:45:29
Speaker
You're always learning and you could always get better. Always. And just fine tune things. And it's like a puzzle whether you're doing the craft or whether you're working on the company.
00:45:40
Speaker
And you do have to love doing it. Everybody has their days to where it's, you know, it's tough. But if you love the industry, man, that it's it's just great to network and learn from each other.
00:45:52
Speaker
So thanks for having me on. Yeah, no, I appreciate you you coming on. I think that is a good spot to end it right there is you and you mentioned maybe five or 10 minutes ago about like like the competition. I'm listening to on some of these these these items and these these podcasts and stuff. And that was something I thought about even when we first got started was like, man.
00:46:10
Speaker
I'm going to be talking about what we do right. And some of that, it's not it's not that it's proprietary or secret. It's just not well known. And you know i thought, man, why am I giving them you know those those secrets or whatever?
00:46:22
Speaker
And at the end of the day kind of where I landed with it, they probably should be doing that stuff. And at the end of the day too, they're doing stuff I should be doing that I'm not doing. And I look at it overall as our goal really should be to elevate the industry as a whole. So whatever niche you're in, I think the more we can do stuff like this, the more we can network, the more you can tell me, Hey, this is what I, you know, suffered at.
00:46:46
Speaker
I think you should be doing this so you don't do what I did. The more we can do that, the more we all do better. So at the end of the day, it's really about elevating the industry. And I think for those who are passionate about this trade, you know, the the craft of this, I think to me, it's a no brainer to to do stuff like this. And I know for, for me, you know, the networking that I've done, you know just by having the podcast in general has been awesome.
00:47:07
Speaker
Um, so no, that's a good spot to kind of, to finish it there. But Mike, it's been great to have you on, man. Um, For those of you who are listening, please do join our Facebook group, The Better Contractor. Just like Mike said, there's a lot of networking opportunities inside of that. So that is what it's there for, and that's all it's there for. So Mike, again, appreciate it.
00:47:28
Speaker
Y'all have a good one.