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“Feminism is dying" - Sydney Watson [Part II]
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Update: Australiana is now Fire at Will - your safe space for dangerous conversations.
In last week’s episode host Will Kingston chatted to firebrand conservative commentator Sydney Watson, whose funny and fearless culture war observations have made her a Youtube sensation the world over. It turns out both host and guest had an aversion to brevity.
This is Part II of Australiana in conversation with Sydney Watson. In this episode Will and Sydney cover modern feminism, race relations and woke celebrities.
Follow Will Kingston and Fire at Will on social media here.
Subscribe to The Spectator Australia here.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
The Spectator Australia magazine combines incisive political analysis with books and arts reviews of unrivalled authority. Subscribe today at spectator.com.au forward slash join.
00:00:25
Speaker
In last week's episode, I chatted to Firebrand Conservative commentator Sydney Watson, whose funny and fearless culture war observations have made her a YouTube sensation the world over. It quickly became apparent that both of us had an aversion to brevity. So this is part two of Australiana in conversation with Sydney Watson.
Sydney Watson on Feminism and Vice Panel Experience
00:00:43
Speaker
We pick up the story discussing Sydney's now infamous appearance at a Vice panel event on modern feminism. Welcome back to our discussion with Sydney Watson. Sydney, we're going to start with the topic of feminism and women's rights and indeed a term which I've only ever heard from you actually of anti-feminism. But first to set the scene for us, talk to us about your recent and notorious debate which was produced and coordinated by Vice.
00:01:09
Speaker
Yeah, so, well, I guess I'm still here, but thanks for continuing on with this. The dreaded Vice panel, for anyone who has, who's not watched it, I recommend doing so. They ended up turning off the comments, which is a bit of a bummer because, you know, everybody loves to have a, have their say in the comments, but more or less I got, I got flown out to New York to do a panel about feminism with Vice. And I think there were what eight or nine of us in the room. I can't remember eight or nine.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yeah, and they always try to do this thing for some reason where they say that they're trying to split up between people who are more on the right wing, people who are more on the left wing, but inevitably it ends up being like one or two conservatives versus, or one or two people on the right versus the rest of the room, which is always really annoying. And so this case, I feel like was really no different to that. There was me, there was two other girls who really didn't get any sort of considerable speaking time who were also more or less
00:02:05
Speaker
somewhere on the right. And it was just really sort of a struggle session for the three of us. The panel was more or less a total, I don't want to swear on your podcast, Will, because I don't want to be rude, but a SHIT show. And it really just evolved into
00:02:22
Speaker
Us getting asked prompts and questions and then the lefties answering, saying kind of crazy things, us trying to push back on it just with like basic common sense and then them getting very cross and very angry.
Critique of Intersectional Feminism
00:02:36
Speaker
What I found frustrating about this, and I've done several panels about feminism and whatnot over the years, and this was the first time that I'd ever been exposed to one where everything
00:02:45
Speaker
was about intersectional feminism. And for people who aren't familiar with that, intersectional feminism basically breaks down the female experience predicated on not just your sex, which is what feminism should be about, but rather, you know, if you're black or white or Asian or brown, like what color your skin is, you know, if you are disabled or not disabled, if you are a neurodivergent or not neurodivergent, there are all these things that they used to break down the experience. So basically feminism becomes a hierarchy with white women at the bottom.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yes, precisely. There's this whole thing where they're very mad at the white feminists because, you know, it doesn't leave room for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's just, it's annoying. I'm not even a feminist. And I listen to this stuff and I'm like, this is exhausting. It's just so exhausting. So I guess the panel went viral because it was just such a mess. It was just...
00:03:32
Speaker
It was just a complete mess and watching it back, I couldn't help but think that even though I feel they cut so much of what we'd said, and of course they would have to because there was what, six hours of footage or something like that. We filmed probably for, you know, six to eight hours. So I understand and they try to distill it into about an hour long of discussion.
00:03:51
Speaker
But it was so interesting watching it back because, again, for people who've not seen it, there were two trans people on the panel, so biological men who, and this might upset some people, but I don't think should be participating in conversations about women anyway, because unless to me you're a biological female, I just simply don't understand how you could understand what our lived experience is like, because you're just not one of us. There are just some fundamental things there that you just don't have. And so can you participate in a conversation about the broader
00:04:18
Speaker
issues concerning women, maybe to some extent. Can you talk about pregnancy or motherhood or anything like that? No. And I'm not really sure why we keep including these people in on conversations about those type of things. But yeah, it just devolved. It was a laugh. Like, don't get me wrong. I had a great time. I got screamed at. It was awesome. That clip went viral. I was like, hell yeah. But, you know, I walked away from it and I thought we have devolved so much.
Debate Dynamics and Communication Challenges
00:04:43
Speaker
This is a mess.
00:04:45
Speaker
It was the tone of the debate, which I found most shocking because I heard you talk about it previously and you said you'd seen previous vice debates where again, they were very left leaning, but the token right-wing person was at least treated with some respect and they were allowed to, to be heard. In this one, whenever you spoke, it was people either laughing at you or shouting you down. What do you think that says about the way that we communicate with each other in this day and age?
00:05:15
Speaker
Well, I think, at least in that respect, and I'm glad that you noticed that because sometimes you feel crazy when you watch these things back after you've done it to be like, am I losing it or am I really being kind of subtly disrespected here? Not even subtly, it's very on the nose. So thanks for saying that and pointing that out. But part of this, I think, and I think this speaks not just the vice debate, but the broader conversation is that there's a lot of people out there.
00:05:40
Speaker
who've never had their ideas questioned. It's very interesting when you get these people and you sit down with them and you say, hey, okay, you said your piece on that. That's really interesting. Tell me more about that. Tell me why.
00:05:55
Speaker
What is that statistic that you're citing? I'm not sure that that's accurate. And you pull apart what they have to say, they cannot handle it. Because in a real world setting, a lot of these, and again, I consider it to be more so like academic flim flam because it just doesn't really exist in the real world. The academic flam flam that they just vomit into your face when they talk to you.
00:06:16
Speaker
There's really no basis in real life for it. And they've kind of just created, like you said before, this kind of victimhood hierarchy that they're obsessed with. And if they're not participating in the victimhood hierarchy, well, they really have nothing to talk about. And so you can't really have an intelligent conversation with people when the basis of everything that they're saying is, well, as a fill in the blank, my life is so hard because of fill in the blank. I mean, how can you talk to people like this? And I think this speaks to a higher
00:06:44
Speaker
I guess like a broader conversation about victimhood and how everybody wants to be a victim today. And it just kind of kills, it kills discussion. Well, you've also said that that mentality is one of the reasons why feminism is dying in your view. What do you mean by that?
00:07:01
Speaker
So intersectional feminism is to me killing everything off because the kind of feminism that I support and would support is the earlier waves. So I think the right to vote for women, the right for women to buy property, own property, be in the workforce or these type of things, I support the others.
00:07:22
Speaker
Nicely, I support that. I have some questionable, I have some thoughts about the questionableness of the sexual revolution because I think that's brought us some things that I'm not certain how I feel about them. And feminists and I often get into fights about that. But, you know, a lot of the second wave, I can get behind some of it, but other bits, not so much. So people who aren't on top of their feminist history. Second wave, are we talking Jermaine Greer sort of generation?
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, the whole pregnancy is this abomination that you should never participate in because it's going to ruin your life and a baby is a hindrance and free sex, free love for all, everyone sleep around. I think that these are things that have had a net negative in society. I used to be very pro-birth control. I mean, I'm still pro-birth control, obviously, if you don't want to have
00:08:08
Speaker
you know, offspring. I support your right to take measures to not get pregnant if you want to take the pill or whatever. But in recent years, I, you know, I've looked into the pill a lot and I'm like, this is not good. We're, we're, we're getting women to change their physiology. We're getting women to mess with their hormones and whatnot. And for what?
00:08:26
Speaker
Uh, so I have a lot of very complicated feelings about a lot of the second wave sexual elements, but there's things that came out of it. It's interesting. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it's interesting that the way that you describe that in, always illuminating around a broader difference between left and the right. So you've just described a lack of comfort with something like the pill and some of the things that it's doing, but you're not suggesting to ban it. And this is a big mindset distinction between members of the, of the left.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, they really, they're kind of weird actually because they either want to ban everything. There's this whole faction. They're so funny. There's this whole faction of feminists. They're like, makeup is a tool of the patriarchy. You can't put it on your face. You're the tool of the patriarchy. They hate high heels. I don't get it. It's very confusing.
00:09:08
Speaker
But their whole thing is like, you know, if you're participating in this, you are not, you're not one of us. You can't be one of us. Whereas my thing is like, if you're going to make decisions, I'm very libertarian like this. If you want to make decisions, just go into it knowing precisely what you're deciding or having all the information. So yeah, do I support people sleeping around and doing all these sorts of things? I don't really, I don't think it's very healthy for anybody, especially women. I don't think it benefits women. I think overall, it's a net negative
Exploration of Privilege and Feminism's Decline
00:09:33
Speaker
for women. And we've been conditioned to think that all this free sex and sleeping around is actually
00:09:38
Speaker
It's so great. But in reality, I think it has some really negative consequences on women. And again, we've been taught to think or conditioned to think that maybe the way we feel about that, oh, just shake it off. No, it's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. And internally, these women are screaming knowing that it's wrong, knowing they don't want to do it. And they continue doing it anyway because they've been taught to think that it's fine. And again, no shade to the people who want to live like that. I mean, that's their choice. I'm all about choice.
00:10:03
Speaker
So I can't even remember the question now, Will. I'm like, now I'm thinking about how the birth control pill is not great for you and all these other things. Oh my goodness. My head is now at a comment that another panelist made about you at the time, which is that you are a, let me get this right, you are a beneficiary of pretty privilege, which was a form of privilege that I hadn't heard before. If I was told that, I'd probably take it as a compliment. But more seriously, do you think that the
00:10:30
Speaker
Privileges, white privilege, male privilege, pretty privilege in your case. Do these exist? Once again, great question. I feel like that's just going to keep coming out of my mouth. This is great publicity for the podcast. Please keep going. I think that to the extent that being attractive
00:10:51
Speaker
gets you further in life. In some respects, yes, maybe that's a privilege, but also I don't think that that's necessarily a precursor to anything. You can be pretty in a complete butt head and everybody hates you. Really, what doors does being attractive open? The privileged thing is a weird one because I think what people have done is they've taken this word that
00:11:20
Speaker
Well, they've taken this word and inappropriately used it to describe things that people can achieve in life, in society, or the image that people have of other people in society and then said, you have it better than everybody else and you don't have it quite as hard. Men, for example, and I think that this is where I think a lot of feminists start to lose me.
00:11:39
Speaker
Men have unique problems. Men have unique problems that women don't have. Men will still have those problems regardless if they have privilege or no privilege. And it's same with women. Women have unique problems. Women have problems that men will never have. And they will still have those things regardless if they're female or sorry, regardless if they have privilege or not. So it's just, it's such a weird way of conceptualizing the world to say your life is less challenging because you're born like this or have this skin color, this, that, and the other, because ultimately I'm a big,
00:12:09
Speaker
Proponent of people just having self-accountability, taking responsibility for their actions, and also not getting bogged down in these bizarre victimhood categories that we seem to love so much. Because privilege really denotes that somebody else doesn't have privilege, and that they're worse off than you because they lack that privilege. And they have no control over that, and therefore we should give them more opportunities and move towards equity, as the left love to say, in order to balance things out.
00:12:33
Speaker
And look, the fact that some people are luckier and some people are more unlucky, the fact that some people are naturally smarter and some people are less smart, this is just the way of the world. What I don't understand about this conversation is how arbitrary particular privileges are chosen. So you can't tell me that a black person who was educated in the Ivy League is less privileged than
00:12:56
Speaker
a white person who grew up in the Appalachian Mountains with drug addict parents. You can't tell me that a woman who had a billionaire father or mother is somehow less privileged than a man whose parents were on the bread line. I don't understand why it's the arbitrary nature of it that I really struggle with.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree with that too. Well, here in America especially, because they are so obsessed with all this type of stuff, and again, you'll have to tell me if this stuff has made its way to Australia, because when I left, it was sort of starting to happen, but it wasn't really all that commonplace. But yeah, definitely here in the States.
00:13:34
Speaker
It's just so odd. It's just so weird. I think about this all the time, especially in relation to the race thing, because people will make the claim, no joke, that you can have the brilliant, handsome, attractive black guy who gets into the Ivy League and then becomes a lawyer and he's smashing it and he's killing it, that he's still subjected to all of these additional hardships and bits and pieces just by virtue of the fact that he happens to be black.
00:13:57
Speaker
or you know his life is more challenging because he happens to be black even though he's achieved and he's done all these amazing things and him compared to like you said the guy from the Appalachian Hills who grew up in the middle of nowhere and he's got he's got no money to his name and he struggled every day of his life and mom and dad you know they had drug problems and he never really could quite get his his life together and everything was so hard for him they'll say no he still has inherent privilege he still
00:14:22
Speaker
you know, basically higher up on, you know, in the socioeconomic world somehow than the guy who's actually doing well, but happens to
Racial Issues and Cultural Critique
00:14:29
Speaker
be black. I don't get that. It's bizarre, but they love this though. And this is how they think that you can't be racist towards white people and all these sort of things. It's just, but again, all of that's coming out of academia. That's the central point of it. Let's dive into the conversations around race in more depth. So to your question around how is, what's the distinction between Australia and the US and the conversation of race?
00:14:51
Speaker
It certainly isn't as toxic, but there's one consistent thread that I see across both countries, and that is a focus on symbolic gestures, as opposed to dealing with pragmatic solutions to problems. The best example that I can see in Australia at the moment is the debate around the voice, where we'll be having a referendum later this year. The fact that we're going to be spending now a whole year and spending a lot of money on a largely symbolic layer of bureaucracy, as opposed to thinking
00:15:21
Speaker
about how do we deal with the systemic, serious and immediate problems in areas like Alice Springs, to me is so telling. It was the same conversation when Kevin Rudd apologized to the stolen generation, which made everyone feel good, but there's been no substantive improvements in Indigenous quality of life over the last 15 years as a result of that apology. What do you put down in both the US and Australia? What do you put down this
00:15:49
Speaker
obsession with race symbolism over actual pragmatic solutions. Well, it's like you said, right? It feels good to do these things. There are band-aid answers to, like you said, kind of deeply ingrained social problems that we would actually have to have honest conversations about what's going on, I think, in order to ameliorate them.
00:16:10
Speaker
It's kind of like, who was the lady some years ago, the blonde lady? I think she's blonde. She made a comment about how children in the Northern Territory have, I believe, higher rates of, say, STDs and whatnot because they're sexually abused at a much higher rate in Aboriginal communities than in, say, the rest of Australia, the whole of the rest of Australia.
00:16:31
Speaker
People got so angry and they were like, you're a racist and you're this. And she, I don't know if you're familiar with who I'm talking about, but, and I can't remember her name, but this, this went everywhere. And she said this on a national TV show and it went everywhere. It might've been like, good morning, something or other. The fact is that this is a data point. It's very easily verifiable. But people cannot have those conversations because it's uncomfortable and it's yucky and everything has to come then once again, back to race. And so people make it all about,
00:17:00
Speaker
Oh, you're being a racist because you're even bringing this up. And I think about this all the time, particularly in the United States. So there is a problem within the black community with fatherlessness, with gangs, drug problems. These are like, once again, like you said, these are data points. You can look at this. You can see these things. They're observable. I think it's a net positive to fix these things because
00:17:22
Speaker
Plenty of my friends who happen to be black are just really awesome people who contribute to society. They're good people, yada, yada, yada. Their skin color doesn't make a difference to whether or not they're good or bad or anything. They're just people. They just happen to be black. I always think it's so weird when people make these arguments that we're not allowed to have these conversations about these very obvious problems because they pertain to a particular race of people when it's a net positive to fix those problems. I mean, if you have an entire group of people, let's say everyone's freaking orange and you have a group of people who are green,
00:17:51
Speaker
And the green group of people don't contribute to society. There's a higher instance of, say, them being on the dole or something like that. And you come in and you go, okay, what's causing this? Oh, it's because of this, this, and let's fix those problems. You fix those problems, now you've got more taxpayers, now you've got more people who are contributing to society, now you have a stronger economy, yada, yada, yada, the list goes on. How are those not things worth chasing? I don't get it.
00:18:16
Speaker
To be held back by the insistence that everything is racist, to me, it's so one-dimensional, and it really goes to show that people actually are not interested in fixing
Societal Challenges and Victimhood Culture
00:18:28
Speaker
problems. They're just interested in making themselves feel better, or to appear like they're doing something. This is the same thing with here in the US, and I don't know if you've heard this, but there's plenty of people in all these states who want to give reparations to, once again, Black Americans.
00:18:41
Speaker
Yes. The conversation is, again, not as big as in Australia, but the conversation is nibbling away with Indigenous Australians.
00:18:50
Speaker
or where they want to give reparations. But how does, but again, like how does, I just don't understand like how that, how that's like a serious thing, especially particularly in states like California where they didn't have slavery. So you're going to pay a bunch of people who weren't slaves who in a state where they didn't have slavery reparations from people who didn't participate in slavery. It's just confusing. I don't know. Maybe I'm like out on a different like page with this, but.
00:19:18
Speaker
No, you're not. And I saw a really good tweet about this the other day where someone shared a skit from Chappelle's show around the year 2000 where he was taking the piss out of reparations. The skit was basically a lot of black people in really rich neighborhoods just throwing money around going, you little beauty.
00:19:34
Speaker
I think the American equivalent of you little beauty is the government's giving us free money for something which happened to people 200 years ago. So it's interesting how it's gone from being something which someone like a black comedian like Chappelle would laugh at how silly it was 20 years ago to now being given a serious conversation.
00:19:50
Speaker
You said that this was one dimensional. I would go further. It is moral cowardice and it is something which you can see in Indigenous Australia. It's something which we can see in Black communities in the US. But I think the best example, and if there's something I can recommend to listeners to do some research on because it's so shamefully underreported, is the
00:20:12
Speaker
grooming gangs scandal in the United Kingdom. Now, for people who don't know, for the last 20, 30 years, there has been systemic and widespread problems associated with largely Pakistani immigrants of the Muslim religion who have used cultural norms as an excuse for raping underage girls. And the numbers, which I don't have at hand, but the numbers behind this are
00:20:41
Speaker
So shocking. And yet still to this day, despite one or two very brave people and brave journalists in the UK, this isn't discussed and, and, and even worse, it's not prosecuted because people are so worried about offending sensibilities when it comes to Islam and when it comes to ethnic minorities like the Pakistani ethnic minority. This is one of those ones where it goes beyond being a funny quirk of the world that we live in today to being genuinely
00:21:09
Speaker
tragic and infuriating. Yeah, I know you're 100% right. The Rotherham rape gangs are grooming gangs. That's one of the big ones. There was another massive drop of information recently pertaining to another city, but I can't remember which one it was. But yeah, we're talking about thousands of young girls
00:21:29
Speaker
being groomed, being raped. And the sad thing is that, and for people, again, who aren't familiar, the sad thing is that when people tried to say something, when the parents of these children tried to say something, when the children themselves tried to say something, the police were either a, dismissive because they were like, nope, don't want to know that, don't want anything to do with it, la, la, la, we can't hear you. Or they felt that their hands were tight and they couldn't do anything because, like you rightly said, well, they were so concerned about coming off as racist.
00:21:59
Speaker
that they just did nothing. And so for years and years and years and years and years and years, these young women and girls were treated just like abhorrently and no one would do anything. And so I think we see actually a little bit of that in Australia, to be honest with you. People don't like that. I don't know if you can tell me why this is, because maybe this is the American in me that doesn't understand.
00:22:22
Speaker
When you criticize America to Americans, and it's like a fair criticism, they're like, that's so true. We hate that too. Yeah, we should stop doing that. When you criticize things about Australia, Aussies always get so irate. And I'm like, guys, I'm not criticizing you. I'm one of you. I'm from your country. Why are you getting so mad about this rightful thing?
00:22:38
Speaker
that someone's pointing out that kind of sucks about our country. Why are you getting so mad? It's just so weird to me because whenever I've talked about particularly this in Australia, because there's so many cases of this where women have said, oh, I got raped or sexually assaulted by this man who's a Muslim or who's whatever.
Criticism of Australia and Media Portrayal
00:22:54
Speaker
The cops will be like, oh, it's a cultural difference thing. That happened to me. I went through the exact same thing. Oh, it's a cultural difference thing. But you call that out. You say, hey, Aussies, this is what's going on in your own backyard. And they're like, no. And they get really mad. I don't get it. I don't get it. I've lived in the US as well. I don't quite see the distinction that way. I see the distinction more from the left and the right. And I actually think they're relatively similar in the US and Australia.
00:23:17
Speaker
where the left is very comfortable shaming their country, the right almost on the other extreme is content to look away sometimes at the problems in their particular cultures. I see it as a problem of ideology as opposed to a problem of one country or another. It's certainly a problem which has got a lot worse in the last 20 years as both countries have become more polarized.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, maybe that's it more than anything. I just find this a lot and I get so disappointed because I think, guys, I'm on your team. I don't want to see Australia go down this road and do all these bits and pieces. But I often get the response that's like, oh, you're just too Americanized now. And I think, no.
00:23:57
Speaker
I mean, yeah, probably, but, but also, you know, I think that there's some like legitimate things, some legitimate criticisms of Australia that kind of gets swept under the rug because they're uncomfortable. They're like uncomfortable to, uh, to participate in and articulate. And I don't know. Well, um, I'm trying to think of actual like examples now for you because this happened, this happened. Oh, with all the COVID stuff, this is a great one. Um, anytime I'd say anything with the COVID stuff, like, Hey guys, I don't think it's appropriate that you're like physically not allowed to go to work unless you're vaccinated.
00:24:27
Speaker
I was very disappointed to see that a lot of Aussies were like, oh, well, it's just whatever. Don't say any of this type of stuff about Australia. They like to kind of safeguard some of the government control that I think we get really used to in Australia. It's kind of funny because now that I've lived in the US for almost four years, I kind of miss some of the regulation that we have back home, which is so psycho to say, but it's just minor things that I go, oh, that's hyper-regulated in Australia, which means that I know that's probably safer, like food.
00:24:56
Speaker
You're right. If you look at Australia now, it is a highly regulated, soft authoritarian society in some instances. But the interesting thing for me is that's not how I think a lot of Australians think of it. I think a lot of Australians still think of the stereotypes. They think of relaxed, laid back.
00:25:12
Speaker
Aussie Larrican, irreverent, suspicious of authority, you know, Paul Hogan, break him around, cultural stereotypes. And in our mind, we still think of Australia that way. The no worries view of Australia.
00:25:27
Speaker
But then you look at the way that Australia is actually moving forward with COVID, the number one example. This is a very, very, authoritarian at this stage may be a word with too many connotations around it, but the non-estate element of Australia is undeniable. And yet I just think that too many of us either don't see it or don't want to see that this is very different to what it was even 20 years ago.
00:25:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that could explain some of the responses that I get to particular things that I have to say about Australia, because God- Yeah, yeah. I think that's maybe, I think what you're saying is probably part of it. It's sort of like when you're forced to reckon with what's actually going on, you're like, I don't want to see that. Get that away from me. And we all do that. I mean, it's very comfy.
00:26:12
Speaker
to not have to engage with things that make you uncomfortable. But I just noticed this too because I think Daily Mail and news.com today love me because every time we do anything or see anything about Australia, there's another article being like radical right wing, far right. Sydney Watson says that Australia Day must be celebrated and if you don't like it, stay home. I'm like, am I wrong? I don't know. I'm confused. Why are you writing angry articles about me?
00:26:54
Speaker
Ah, are we friends? We've covered some heavier topics, race, the trans issue. I know you're burning through all the big ones, all the big no-no's. Let's finish on saying a bit lighter and that is woke
00:27:03
Speaker
I think they would be very supported by the Daily Mail readership.
Celebrity Influence on Culture
00:27:09
Speaker
celebrities. Cause I know that this is a particular little hobby horse of yours. Why do you think there is such a homogenous worldview in Hollywood and do you think they actually matter? Do I think celebrities matter?
00:27:23
Speaker
Do you think the fact that celebrities push a particular agenda makes a difference to the wider society?
00:27:31
Speaker
Yes, I do. Oh God, man, I hate celebrities. I find them so annoying. There's like two of them that I respect. And it's so funny. I was watching a film last night called Don't Look Up, and I don't like Jennifer Lawrence at all. And everyone in the film was so annoying that I was like, oh my God, this is making me like Jennifer Lawrence. Who would have thought what is going on? You know, it's such a funny one because I'm kind of on the fence with this. I feel like you and I are probably on the same wavelength when it comes to this stuff.
00:27:58
Speaker
On one hand, I don't think Rihanna doing the Super Bowl performance, just for example, was something worth complaining about. I was like, yep, cool. Everyone who's dressed around her in their little white outfits. People should go and watch the clip because what I'm about to say is going to sound really gross and apologies in advance. But all of her dancers look like they're dressed up as sperm. And I found that visually a little assaulting to the eyes. But I was like, whatever. Like, this is fine. They can do what they want to do. This is not worth complaining about. I don't know why conservatives in the United States are mooning.
00:28:27
Speaker
On the other hand, then you look at Sam Smith and his, did you see his little sausage outfit where he's like all wrapped up in... I did, yes. I look at that. Yeah. Yeah, his like bondage stuff. I look at that and I'm like, I hate you. This was the Grammy's performance with it, which a lot of the conservatives said in the US have said was kind of Satan worship.
00:28:48
Speaker
Yeah, demonic-y, which I guess it was. He was literally dressed as the devil. I mean, sure. But there's like a distinction there, right? Like Rihanna dancing, it's whatever to me.
00:28:58
Speaker
doesn't make a difference. People just really like her music. Sam Smith and some of these other people, I do think that they have a cultural impact. I do think that there is a net effect of what they're doing. I don't like it. And I think that people underestimate how impactful culture is. And this is why I have moved even my own content creation and the things I talk about into the cultural space, because that's where people are more interested. Politics is great. Politics is fun. Fine, fine, fine. Politics makes a difference when it comes to what the fertile government is doing.
00:29:26
Speaker
the state government, you can learn yada, yada, yada. However, people care about the shows that they're watching. People care about the video games they're watching. They love Sam Smith's music. They love Rihanna's music. They love all these things, and so they have a vested interest in what those people are doing. It's not just a casual interest. Test this out with people that you know in your life. Pick someone that they really love and say, that person died. Freak them out.
00:29:46
Speaker
They'll be like, oh my God, what? They care about the life and death of people they don't even know, celebrities they don't even know. There's like a parasocial investment in these people. And I think that really does have such a bizarro consequence, particularly on young people once again. Well, you heard that that that actress only died this morning. What's Reese? Who? Reese someone? Don't say Reese Witherspoon. Oh, no, it was with a knife.
00:30:16
Speaker
I walked straight into that one. You got me so good. Yes, I haven't used that since I was about 15 and I'm so happy that it worked. I walked straight into that. Yeah, I was like, don't tell me it's Reese Witherspoon, that blonde lady from Alabama that I know nothing about. Come on. Well, look, if we have any listeners still listening after that, I have one more question for you and it's, I guess, tying together a lot of what we've spoken about.
Building Community and Conclusion
00:30:43
Speaker
As I said in our last episode, I speak so many people who just feel helpless. What is your advice, you know, dealing with for people who are trying to navigate this crazy woke world of 2023? What is your advice to them?
00:30:58
Speaker
Oh man, that's once again, big, big question. I just, I guess one of my things that I'm realizing even for myself is that having a really strong unit of people around you really helps with feeling that with that isolation and that sort of
00:31:13
Speaker
I guess I don't know the correct terminology, but you feel kind of separated from society because you don't think anybody thinks like you. Finding a community of like-minded people, whether it's online or whether it's in real life, I think is so important because you're not crazy. And that's the thing is that we're almost made to feel 100% of the time like we're insane.
00:31:32
Speaker
for just having these really common sense opinions and when you find other people who share your opinions and your views you know they don't have to share all of them but just you know even a large portion of them will make you feel a lot better i would say that we're in such an odd period of time and i'm right along there with people feeling it and just being like things feel really negative at the moment and so i think that
00:31:53
Speaker
And this is just what I say to people all the time on the internet, like, go outside and touch some grass a little bit. Because I think we're all so invested that I think sometimes we forget to just turn off and switch off. And as far as, once again, like I said before, getting involved. I really believe that if you really seriously consider and care about what's going on around you, I can't stress enough how much getting involved in your local community and making change.
00:32:15
Speaker
It's that's so important just being involved in that capacity if you're willing to do it that will make you feel a lot better But yeah communities are a big one turning off getting away from the internet and all that type of stuff really big one and then actually making Measurable change in your communities and whatnot really big one. I don't know if that's helpful to other people, but that helps me a lot
00:32:34
Speaker
I personally really like it. I think get involved and go outside and touch the grass are two lovely sentiments to end on. Anyone who has listened to this will agree that, Cindy, you are essential listening or viewing for anyone with an interest in the broader culture wars and cultural issues that we are facing. Please keep doing what you are doing because I think on the right,
00:32:54
Speaker
There is a lack of really intelligent charismatic voices on, on these sorts of issues. And you are certainly, one of them will put your YouTube handle, I guess it's called and Twitter and all the different ways you can connect on social media in the show notes. Sydney, thank you so much for joining us on Australiana. Thank you for having me and thank you for that very, very lovely outro there. I really appreciate it. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you very much for listening to this episode of Australiana. If you enjoyed it, please subscribe. And if you really enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review.