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Smashing gangs and stopping boats, with Patrick Christys
0 Playsin 2 hours
Many UK politicians think illegal immigration is an unsolvable problem. It’s easier to put illegal migrants in fancy hotels and hope for the best. GB News host Patrick Christys has put them to shame. In recent weeks, Patrick has infiltrated the people smuggling networks in France. His insights into the migrant crisis are astonishing.
Will and Patrick also discuss the ‘Great Afghan cover up’, the failures of the UK media, and whether Nigel Farage really is the right man to save Britain.
Follow Will Kingston and Fire at Will on social media here.
Read The Spectator Australia here.
Watch Patrick's show live in the studio here.
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Transcript
Introduction and Broadening Focus
00:00:19
Speaker
G'day and welcome to Fire at Will. I'm Will Kingston. My guest today is GB News host, Patrick Christie's. Patrick and I booked this in only a week ago, and at the time, I thought we would primarily be talking about what is, with the exception of the rape gangs, the greatest scandal in modern British political history, the great Afghan cover-up.
UK's Current Crises: Recoverable or Terminal?
00:00:43
Speaker
But such is the way with British politics these days. In the week that has followed, we have seen protests across the country with hotels being used to house illegal migrants.
00:00:55
Speaker
Patrick himself has been in Calais to expose the scale of this crisis and how it is going unpoliced by both the United Kingdom and the French. The voting age has bizarrely been dropped to the age of 16. There's been more dire economic news.
00:01:12
Speaker
It just feels every day at the moment there is another chip away at the soul of the nation. The question is... Is this recoverable, the crisis that the United Kingdom finds itself in, or is it terminal?
00:01:28
Speaker
Patrick, welcome to Fire at Will. Thank you very much for having me. This is a real pleasure to be joining you here. So thank you. And of course, you've been on the wishlist for some time, so it's great to have you on. And I think now is a really good time to speak to you because you've been at the forefront so many of those issues that I just flagged.
00:01:45
Speaker
And we will get to those, but I guess there's probably a broader question to ask you at the outset, and that is, how do you feel about your country in 2025?
Disconnect Between Politicians and Public
00:01:56
Speaker
Gosh, well, there is definitely a sense of despair. I always want there to be a light at the end of the tunnel. So I think ultimately everything is recoverable. It has to be, otherwise we might as well all pack up and go home. But you're right to identify there's several issues there. And it does seem as though every single day there is a different scandal.
00:02:16
Speaker
There is a different cover-up. There is a different lie or deceit that is negatively impacting predominantly and the British people, many cases as well, the British working class. And, you know, this can't go on. It feels as though it's completely and utterly unsustainable. And I think it's contributing towards very much a powder keg environment that anyone with eyes and ears really can see and hear now right across the country.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah, and and I think the interesting thing about your job, and you do this better than than almost any journalist, is you actually do get out and speak to everyday people, working class people across the country, but you also get to speak to politicians across the aisle as well.
00:02:55
Speaker
So you're almost in the middle there. Do you think that the political class is in touch with the way that everyday people are feeling in this country? Or do you think that there is still a very, very big disconnect there?
00:03:07
Speaker
I think there's a huge disconnect there. And I think that never has that disconnect been bigger. It was probably initially highlighted predominantly with Brexit, where you saw a load of people in the House of Commons and then in the House of Lords as well, relentlessly trying to subvert the clear and obvious will of the British people.
Protests and Political Dismissals
00:03:24
Speaker
That not really set the cat amongst the pigeons when it came to a lot of political distrust and disdain, I think. that the public had towards their elected members of parliament. But if you look at where we are today, several examples would highlight that.
00:03:36
Speaker
I think the overwhelming majority of the British public would have wanted a full national inquiry into the Pakistani rape gang scandal toot sweet. They would wanted that straight away. Or they had to mess around a little bit with that.
00:03:46
Speaker
Now, of course, before that, we had the summer disorder, where again, a lot of our politicians were very keen to just dismiss everyone as being far right. You've now got more and more and more protests popping up outside these migrant hotels for a variety of few different reasons, predominantly people just not feeling safe there. There have also been very key flashpoints with crimes both alleged and proven now, ah where people think that ah they they shouldn't have to put up with that in their community. So people are more ready to take to the streets and politicians are trying to dismiss that as racist. We've even had police officers, as it was revealed yesterday in Essex, escorting Antifa or stand-up to racism protesters to the site of a hotel.
00:04:26
Speaker
Well, why would you do that? All right, we maybe have a ah We do have a for free country and id like to be able to see people protest. But you really are guiding them towards what could become a volatile situation, which allowed those people who were not from the area to call some people in that crowd who were locals in Epping, ah racist and Nazis, including ah children, really, which meant that it was bound to kick off, wasn't it?
00:04:47
Speaker
And there's also another great case, which is there's this two and a half million pound mega mosque that should be built in Cumbria. very rural parts of the country that does not have a massive Muslim population.
Changing Perception of Political Labels
00:04:58
Speaker
And there have been people protesting outside that site there. Just the day before yesterday, I think it was, a lot of those people were dismissed as racists by a local Labour MP. So again, I think you can just continue to highlight the the disconnect there between a lot of our elected officials and the actual the actual mood on the ground.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, there was a thread that ran through that answer, which is this slur that has so consistently been used to stifle speech in this country, in fact, across the Anglosphere, which is that racist slur, or in fact, you know, added to that fascist or far right, take your pick.
00:05:30
Speaker
And it's been an incredibly effective weapon used by the left to scare people into silence. And I still think it is used, but it feels to me, and this may even be in the in the last three to six months, this is increasingly just water off the duck's back to so many people who go, enough is enough. I'm not going to tolerate this sort of name calling if it means that we're going to put really serious problems into the background. Do you think that that that slur is starting to lose its punch? Yeah.
00:05:59
Speaker
i I do think it is. I think it's been overused. I think at times we've been over-Nazid as well. You know, people calling everyone Nazi for doing everything. and It kind of loses the power of how bad the Nazis really were.
00:06:10
Speaker
A couple of good points to highlight this. I think when we first started to have a migrant crisis in in in predominantly, obviously, Central Europe and then that's filtered through to us, initially, I think there was a sense that Gosh, a lot of these people are genuine asylum seekers. They are genuine refugees. And we can see you know big, big issues going on in countries like Syria, for example. and and There was a degree of people there, I think, were like, well, maybe we should be helping some of these people out.
00:06:34
Speaker
But you have to look at where we are today. where literally the world and not his wife, because he'll very often leave his wife back at home, the world wants to come to Britain, and we are just letting them break in. And if that makes you a racist for for wanting to to call that out, then ah really, I don't think that that that word has a huge amount of power
Immigration Challenges and Realistic Policies
00:06:52
Speaker
anymore. Again, the Pakistani rape gang scandal, you know, people were dismissed as Islamophobes and as racists who want to point that out. and the more detail you find out about it, you think, well, I'm sorry, but if you want to call me a racist because I think that the industrial rape of of predominantly young working class white girls that was covered up really by police forces and by politicians, well, if that ah makes me a racist, then I don't really mind you calling me that because I think you're wrong and I don't lose any sleep over it.
00:07:19
Speaker
The thing that I would raise some concern about is that I think because now people understand that you can't silence people as easily, by scaring them with those slurs that you just mentioned there. That's one reason I think why we are now hurtling towards a new definition of Islamophobia, which could really silence a lot of people, rick what could criminalize a lot of people, couldn't it really?
00:07:39
Speaker
And that could be that could be the next kind of power move there because they realize just that your your conventional slurs probably weren't weren't doing it anymore. and the other one of that, of course, the trans movement. You know, if you were called a turf, we were about people with, it was like the trans mafia, I used to call them. You know you to put something on social media about how you thought up a ah woman was a woman and that bloke probably shouldn't be and that woman's changing room.
00:08:00
Speaker
and And all of a sudden, you were a transphobe and that legitimized people, you know, whether they Whether they would have acted on it or not is a different thing, but, you know, sending waves of death threats through to people online, you know, really trying to cancel and silence people there.
00:08:14
Speaker
but But again, the Overson window has shifted, hasn't it, our on that, I think, for a variety of different reasons. I don't think you are considered to be a TERF anymore because you you don't want to, like is literally the case in a hospital in Darlington, you don't think it's right that a bloke with full tackle and a girlfriend should be able to use the changing rooms of the female nurses who are there and that they should be told that they might lose their jobs if they speak out
Cancel Culture vs. Courage Culture
00:08:40
Speaker
about it.
00:08:40
Speaker
And in the meantime, would you mind getting changed in that broom cupboard after a long day of cleaning up other other people's mess and saving lives? So Yeah, all those words there, I think they're losing their power. well Case study of of that sort of transphode slur and how the Overton window has shifted in that policy area is instructive.
00:08:59
Speaker
and There's a wonderful quote that I heard from a former Australian Deputy Prime Minister, John Anderson, the other day. The only cure for cancel culture is courage culture. And there's been a relatively small group of women, and the TERFs, who have been ah arguing their case for a long period of time. It's probably been led out of the United Kingdom with the Posey Parkers of this world and Graham Linehan and and that all that group.
00:09:22
Speaker
And as a result of that now, basically the silent majority who are kind of going, well, this is nonsense, but we're too afraid to say it's nonsense, are now allowed and and free free to say it. And I think that is a lesson there for so many other areas at the moment where people may be going, you know what?
00:09:37
Speaker
I seen these problems across the country, but I'm afraid that in my office or even you know amongst my friends, I'm not allowed to say the bleeding obvious. It just takes a bit of courage to be able to shift that Overton window.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, and what I've noticed happen is in recent years, and I think especially over the course of the last year, we've been able to get hold of more facts to back our cases up. So initially, you know, when it looked at, say, the economic case for mass immigration, we were told that that was all a good thing. And if you didn't like the fact that your area now resembled a different country, that that actually made you a racist because it was making us all richer. We were enriched both culturally and financially. Well, now we've got the, you know, tidal wave of GDP per capita figures, which would indicate that that isn't the case at all.
00:10:21
Speaker
Also, when it comes to concerns that people have had about certain blokes living at these migrant hotels, well, The Sun newspaper actually did a tremendous investigation of the 100 or so migrant hotels that they were allowed to know the location of.
00:10:33
Speaker
They managed to look at local court listings near there. Now, it's important to say that, look, some of these offenses will be alleged, okay, but one in every 100 people who is at those hotels are is currently wanted for a crime.
00:10:44
Speaker
And it's stats like this that allow us to back it up. The rate of sexual assault amongst the Afghans, for for example. So again, we can we can use these figures now. Yeah, let's let's go on to that. And that that rate of sexual assault amongst the Afghans, from memory, it's about somewhere between 20 times to 22 times higher than a UK citizen.
00:11:02
Speaker
And if you look at, I think everyone's saying, well, most people would have seen this chart now that circulates on Twitter that looks at country by country, how do the rates of sexual assault of immigrants from particular countries compare to UK citizens?
00:11:14
Speaker
And you have Afghanistan literally at the top, and then you've got countries like Eritrea and Somalia and you know go down the list. And the thing is, this is should be instinctive. If you come from a country where there aren't the same values around the treatment to women,
00:11:28
Speaker
where it is a third world country where where the culture lends itself more so to that sort of criminality. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that that person is going to be more likely to commit those crimes if they do come to the United Kingdom. They don't suddenly forget those cultural attitudes as soon as they jump onto the beaches of Dover or the beach of Dover.
Insights into Human Trafficking Networks
00:11:47
Speaker
At the same time, I've had this argument on GB News. I had this argument with Bill Rammell, former Labor defense minister, only the other night. And he basically said to me, point blank, Will, there is no evidence to suggest that particular particular cultures commit more crimes than others.
00:12:01
Speaker
And we have the data now, but also it is absolute common sense. So my question to you would be, because I heard Jess Phillips and one of the other Labor MPs saying the exact same thing the other other day Do you think they are lying or do you think that this ideology is so ingrained in them on the left side of politics that they genuinely believe what they're saying in this respect?
00:12:23
Speaker
I think if both can possibly be true at the same time there then that's what I'd say because there's either lies and deceit i.e. they know what the facts are and they're just ignoring it and I'm prepared to believe that that's the case because I do think we have a particularly deceitful bunch of politicians in government at the moment. and I also think there's a lot of willful ignorance taking place. so so So just not wanting to look at the the bleeding obvious, as you might put it. Darren Jones on Newsnight was a corker of an example, wasn't it When you look at these people coming over, and the majority of them are women and children. He said something like that. Well, they're obviously not.
00:12:55
Speaker
Does he ever look at the small boat crisis? And and and that's what that's what maybe I thought. With someone like Jess Phillips, who, yeah, look, you know, I understand that she's got a very difficult job to do. I'm not saying that she's got an easy job, and I'm not saying that being in a position of power is is easy. And she does have to possibly balance some considerations with her own personal constituency, which I think she might lose next time at the next general election, and what she might really believe. But that shouldn't get in the way of the truth.
00:13:19
Speaker
And she had direct first-hand experience during the last election campaign of what she said. what were was bullying and intimidation predominantly towards both her and her female members of staff.
00:13:31
Speaker
And where was that coming from? Well, they had one of those kind of quite quite fruity pro-Palestine Gaza gang MPs that were standing against them and wanted to stand against them. And if it was coming from from from from that culture, a culture that maybe can be more derogatory towards women, well, then she's experienced that.
00:13:49
Speaker
So she now brackets that up ideologically for her as, well, it's just men. It's all men. Okay, well, yeah look, hey, there are an unfortunate but number of you know bigoted blokes in in England and and rapists and all of this stuff. That's a problem we we we have. Every culture does have it.
00:14:06
Speaker
But if you look at the rates of sexual assault and a male dominance over women, you you you can see that they come from certain and cultures. And again, you know it's like with the female genital mutilation or honor killing statistics. Well,
00:14:18
Speaker
That's an imported problem here in Britain. So when you have specialist centres set up to try to deal with that dotted around the UK, and you look at the fact that a lot of them are in Birmingham, for example, and Birmingham, of course, has had a rapid rate of demographic change, predominantly from the Pakistani kind of community.
00:14:34
Speaker
ah Again, again would you know would you not have to imply that really it's a problem that is that that is linked to them? And and why can't why can't we name it Yeah. the The thing is, it is so disingenuous. You could just as easily say that these problems come from people who eat breakfast every morning and you would be technically correct and you know go down down the list.
00:14:53
Speaker
But the problem is in no other area in society do we stop at that level of granularity. We generally go deeper to work out what the underlying cause of the problem is. But they're very happy to stop there because it does suit a particular ideological narrative.
00:15:08
Speaker
I want to get onto boats because this is an area that you've done extraordinary journalism in recent weeks on. And it's also an interesting one because I think at the moment, haven't looked at the recent analytics, but I'd say probably about half of the people watching and listening to this podcast are in the UK and about half would be in Australia.
00:15:23
Speaker
fact, actually, I saw there was a couple in Greenland the other day, which I was a tad surprised by. So g'day to everyone in Greenland. Thank you thank you for ah for for watching. But predominantly those two countries. And you would have Australians looking at the boats crisis and going, I actually don't understand how the UK is struggling with this after there was now a bilateral a bipartisan ah solution to that very similar problem in Australia.
00:15:48
Speaker
And then you hear UK politicians largely on the left saying, well, no, sorry, this is just an unsolvable problem and we just have to do our best with it. You've tried to expose that by actually going to Calais to going to these smuggling camps and looking at what's going on.
00:16:01
Speaker
I guess my first my first question would be, what has surprised you the most as you've conducted that on the ground journalism? Well, how easy it was. so That that was that wasnt that was my ma map was my major takeaway.
00:16:12
Speaker
we We had, over the course of the last month or so, been in touch with a variety of different human traffickers. You can get their information very easily on TikTok, on social media. Once you reach out to them there, then they'll move the conversation over to WhatsApp. Some of them actually have their WhatsApp phone numbers in there in their bios on Twitter so or on TikTok, I should say. So very easy to get hold of that.
00:16:33
Speaker
And it just got to a point after I'd seen some of them posting ISIS propaganda or posing with assault rifles and and all of that, I thought, well, if if we don't feel as though that's being stopped by our authorities, maybe I should go out there and try to meet some of these people, see if we can get any of their faces on record and all of that. So what would you search on TikTok to try and find those people?
00:16:56
Speaker
Well, if you can get the right algorithm on the go, then you become you become part of small boat migrant TikTok. So you can get all these videos that keep coming through of people but on boats or being dragged to Britain by by border force. and you you just You just search things like that or search words like Calais or Dunkirk or then maybe do it with in Arabic and try and piece it all together. But I mean, a tidal wave of this stuff. It's just all is' all out there. So So yeah, thats that's what that's what we'd that's what we'd search. And then once you start getting onto one or two of them, then ah quite handily, actually, the TikTok algorithm, which is probably something that should be stopped by the the TikTok authorities, really, you think about it. But the algorithm that you get on there just makes it very easy for you. um And we went with, I went with, I think, seven or eight contacts that I had there.
00:17:43
Speaker
And I've just basically, as I'd messaged them a little bit the day before. I was doing off an English number, so it wasn't my number. was doing off an English number because we bought us couple of burner phones. And I'd initially thought, maybe they're going put off by this English number. Maybe they'll think, who is this guy? You know, I wasn't to take phone calls from them because they did figure out that probably wasn't an illegal migrant. So...
00:18:05
Speaker
But they didn't bother about that at all. They just didn't care. then Then when I got to Calais or actually just a place around the corner called Sangat, I just fired my live location over to all of them.
00:18:15
Speaker
we then so but we Within 30 seconds, actually, one of them had got back to us straight away with the location. Two others had got back to us. And these locations were all very close to each other. So they're all operating, or a lot of them are operating anyway, from a specific part ah of of northern France.
00:18:31
Speaker
That's extraordinary. i'm I'm just thinking through it I imagine it is analogous to the way that the drug trade works. So the people that you're probably speaking to, these aren't the head honcho guys. These are middlemen, effectively, who are you know middle of the chain, I suppose.
00:18:45
Speaker
So what i in just in the cases that i identified, the people that I was speaking to either over the phone or directly on WhatsApp, I'd say well were yeah know ah a couple of rungs up the chain of command. Then the people who actually came to meet me, they'd send their they send their foot soldiers out there.
00:19:03
Speaker
to or I think there's some of them are called burner boys that they they send them out there to meet you so you'd identify a location I'd go to the location they'd realize that I was there presumably there are certain
Threats After Exposing Traffickers
00:19:13
Speaker
people watching you from around there as well and then I'd normally get another phone call or a message from whoever it was I'd been communicating with to say right look out for this person they're called and they gave me a couple of names one of them I think said what was wearing I'm wearing a brown shirt or something and and And then, yeah, have we just weigh in and then you can you can spot them.
00:19:31
Speaker
You can spot them coming up from from out the trees or or up from the shrubland there. And and and then then you've got them. One of them made it very easy for me to identify because I'd said I was from Vietnam, which did pose a slight problem for me at one point because I was, you can, pimp if you watch the footage, the thing is the reason why I did that, right, the reason why I did that was that like, we're the best one in the world. I'm not Sudanese.
00:19:51
Speaker
And if I said I was from a Middle Eastern country, I thought they would have spoken the language. They'd have started talking the language. didn't want to say I was Eastern European because there's a lot of those countries that don't really ne make that trip anymore. So one of the other big countries that's been coming over is va Vietnam. But if you watch that footage, you can pinpoint the exact moment where I am working out in my head whether or not to do a Vietnamese accent.
00:20:12
Speaker
and And I decided, I decided, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do that. but That would be a step too far, even for me. but so But yeah, so so then one but then one of them started shouting, you know, Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam at me. And it it was obviously them who were there to meet. And so they were just right there. So we walked up and that made it very easy for me. I could just go, right, you are a human trafficker, aren't you?
00:20:35
Speaker
And talk to me. They were a bit shocked. But there wasn't just one of them. They have a little cluster of people around them and they're filming you as well. so I think, you know, they they want your face and your details on record possibly as much as as we as we want theirs, really. and And they did get that.
00:20:51
Speaker
They did get that. Are they armed? Well, i did I didn't see any weapons there. they say offs put that That said, you know, we quite quickly revealed the camera. So, I mean, all right, they are obviously quite evil and brazen, some of these people. But, you know, were were they going to shoot me at point blank range?
00:21:09
Speaker
With the camera right there, I don't know, but maybe. I think we we we massively surprised them. So that bought us that first window of of time. And then their initial response from some of them was to just just run away.
00:21:22
Speaker
So then the kind of chase is on there, really. So you've got them on the back foot and they decided to leg it. However, the screenshots of the people who are like the head of honchos of all of this, loads them are posing with assault rifles next to helicopters and all sorts of stuff.
00:21:36
Speaker
So it's unquestionably some of the people that are armed. and And he called me back once I'd stitched up one of the the people that come at me. And he said to me, he said, I've got your face. I'm going to, you know, i'm going to F you. I'm going F your family. I'm going to do all this
UK's Inadequate Immigration Measures
00:21:49
Speaker
stuff. So yeah that that is that is a concern. But we we just got got out there relatively quickly. after that Where are the countries that these gangs are originating from primarily? like The ones that that I've seen anyway, Iraq and Afghanistan.
00:22:03
Speaker
And then there's a little bit of a grey area there with the Kurds because there's a kind outdown of, it can be a region and but you know around around Iraq and there's Kurds, people in Turkey as well and things like that. i' say And then how much is a ticket on one of those rubber dinghies over the channel?
00:22:18
Speaker
Well, the one I was quoted in the camp was €1,500. It says, come bring €1,500 and you can you can go on this trip. So that's about par for the course given what we've been quoted previously as well.
00:22:29
Speaker
Now, I imagine for a lot of these people, it would be pretty hard to rustle up 1,500 euros. So this raises the question of how they are, you know, and I've heard this a lot in the context of the Mexicans across the border into the United States, how they're effectively slaves for these gangs once they actually arrive, in that case in America.
00:22:47
Speaker
Is there ah an analogous situation in the United Kingdom? Well, one would assume so, and it might go some way to explaining why so many of them have been working as delivery drivers and all that.
00:22:58
Speaker
the The other thing that I don't think maybe gets spoken about enough is that there was a man from Eritrea that I spoke to the last time I was in Calais who had made mut multiple attempts to get across the channel.
00:23:08
Speaker
That had cost him a lot of money, and I asked him how he kept getting the money for it. And he said his mum and dad in Eritrea send the money to him. So, know, given that you look at the demographics of the blokes there, many of them, you know, I'd say aged between 18 and 25, a lot of them, you know, it's possible that they have parents back somewhere or family members somewhere or people they already know in Britain who are capable of doing it.
00:23:36
Speaker
You know, unfortunately for us, we didn't get to the point where I would have handed some money over. I think it was just a judgment call, really, because firstly, I didn't actually want to end up giving them any money, right? And secondly, thought once they see my face close up and I start speaking to them, I mean, they're not realists. Surely they're not going to think that I actually want to come across the channel. So I didn't really think it would happen that way. you So we're we're approaching, the last time i I checked, we're approaching 50,000 boat arrivals since the Starmer government was was voted in or came to power about a year ago, bit over a year ago.
00:24:15
Speaker
Only a couple of days ago, there was a new announcement that was made ah about how they're trying to tackle this problem. It was basically freezing the assets of some of these criminal gangs, banning entry into the United Kingdom.
00:24:28
Speaker
Makes you wonder why there was they were ever a allowed entry into the United Kingdom, but I guess that's ah that's a separate question. From what you've seen, will those types of measures work? No, because I think all of this is tinkering around the edges. What was wrapped up in that announcement that you mentioned there was, again, a lot of talk about smashing the gangs, and a lot of talk about this vile trade in human life. And then they also call it irregular immigration. Now, help David Lammy does. It's not illegal anymore. It's irregular immigration. So that winds a lot of people up.
00:24:59
Speaker
But if you're not going to deport people, it doesn't matter. it that's That's the ultimate thing. And I really do think that they need to give their heads a wobble because I am sick and tired, especially having been there just couple of days ago, sick and tired of this idea that these human traffickers are walking around northern France, you know, jeoparding people onto boats against their will.
00:25:22
Speaker
and ah forcing them to come to come to Britain and then forcing them into whatever kind of slavery that that they that they think exists. There is a market for these people and that market exists because people in those Calais jungles and around Dunkirk around Northern Friends and everyone across Europe group who's getting to Britain now knows that if they get to Britain, they will almost definitely not be deported.
00:25:45
Speaker
And until you change that, you're not going to smash the gangs. That would be the business model being smashed, wouldn't getting rid of the people who illegally come to Britain. So, no, I think it's just a lot of a lot of tinkering around the edges, like it is with the the French slashing the boats in the water now, which we were told was nailed on, but actually it's subject to a maritime review, so the French just don't have to do that.
00:26:05
Speaker
and And the Germans, this is an interesting point, so the Germans, a lot of boats are stored in German warehouses, And until recently, the Germans have been doing not a lot about it because they realized that those boats are destined for what is now a non-EU country, which is Britain.
00:26:18
Speaker
And this all im emerged recently when Keir Starmer made that revelation next to the German Chancellor. thought, so hang on a minute, the Germans have known probably the locations of where these boats are and exactly what they're being used for. But because we dared to vote for Brexit, they thought, oh, screw them.
00:26:32
Speaker
We'll just flood them with illegal illegal immigrants.
Political Elite and Cultural Guilt
00:26:35
Speaker
Well, I find that absolutely, completely and utterly offensive. for people who are the Europhiles and are pro-EU, just think, are they your mates, really?
00:26:43
Speaker
Really? And, you know, I don't want to bang on about the war, particularly at World War. But I think we've done the Germans a few favours over the years. And i I think that in those exact fields in Calais and Dunkirk that I was, there were huge numbers of British soldiers and American soldiers, no doubt as well, and and Australians, i would have thought, and and Canadians, whatever,
00:27:00
Speaker
who laid down their lives in those very fields, laid down their lives so that mainland Europe could be freed from Nazi tyranny. And the response that we've had to that, not that long later, is that's all forgotten.
00:27:14
Speaker
We've got a migrant process here now, and those countries are letting Britain be invaded by people from the Middle East and Africa. I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly, but at the same time, it doesn't feel like the UK government thinks in that way either. Like if I was thinking about the great history of the United Kingdom and the amount of people that have sacrificed their lives across two world wars and and even further back than that,
00:27:37
Speaker
I would be thinking that you would be wanting to protect your borders, that you'd be wanting to protect your culture, that you'd be wanting to value your history, and both at the government level at the moment, but also as part of that broader liberal establishment, there remains this self-loathing instinct that says, well, no, we need to atone for past sins.
00:27:55
Speaker
And this is maybe a slightly ungainly segue But how do you feel the the broader that broader cultural attitude in the United Kingdom? To the extent that, and I've heard a lot of young people say this, if there was a world war tomorrow, they would not fight for the United Kingdom because they don't feel like the United Kingdom has fought for them.
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's true. There are, well, it is true. There's like loads of people, loads of young people who feel that way. I mean, I hope we never put that to the test. I hope we never end up in a situation where we have to find out. I do think that maybe if we were and there was a yeah a serious, serious, genuine threat that we could all identify, I like to think that maybe people would would pick up the arms and go, right well, I might not like Keir Starmer, but i do actually like Britain and I'll go and do that. So So we'll have to wait and see. But but yeah, it's a damning state of affairs now where I think you find people at all age spectrums. So younger people in schools being put in isolation and suspended or whatever happened to that girl for going and wearing a Union Jack dress on our cultural day. So you've got that.
00:28:58
Speaker
Then you've got the the slightly older generation of people who may be getting into the world of work for the first time and who are starting to pay tax and starting to realize that maybe maybe there their Mickey Mouse degree from some university isn't going to get them along in life and they are they are saddled with a lifetime of debt and they're still expected to to sit their hand in their pocket and pay for more people as well.
00:29:19
Speaker
Usually they have that that older generation who have paid in all their lives and worked very hard and wanted to try to leave something good for for their kids who now feel that their kids are being hammered left, right and center.
00:29:30
Speaker
And that that is a that is a big problem. But if you are ultimately being led by people who are fully wholeheartedly signed up globalists and Europhiles, who I think if you strap them to a lie detector test would reveal that they actually don't believe in borders and that they don't think that British ah way of life is is to be protected at all, then, you know, that's that's a major problem, isn't it? that That's where that ideology stems from.
00:29:56
Speaker
Yeah, and that's why I think that both the illegal immigration problem and the far bigger problem of legal migration is unlikely to change in the course of this government because it is so central to their guiding ideology, which you've just ah you've articulated very well.
Afghan Evacuation Scandal
00:30:10
Speaker
let's Let's move on to the to the Afghan scandal. As I mentioned earlier, most people in the UK now well aware of this, but there may be some people listening or watching elsewhere that are not. Give me a quick rundown um of what happened.
00:30:22
Speaker
ah that All right. So when Kabul was falling to the Taliban, someone who worked for the Ministry of Defence mistakenly ah sent out an email with the names of about 100,000 people on it.
00:30:35
Speaker
and Not just Afghans, as it turns out, also MI6 operatives and some British forces as well. Not ideal. so they that they don' there are There are workplace cock-ups and there are workplace cock-ups and that's a workplace cock-up.
00:30:48
Speaker
We've all had a bad day in the office, you know, but that is, that's not, you know, trying to retrieve that email. But anyway, so so that information got out there. And as a result, clearly, no that put several people's lives at risk from the Taliban. Now, what the government decided to do at the time, it was the conservative government,
00:31:06
Speaker
What they decided to do at the time was try to hide this with a super injunction, which basically bans the reporting of any information in it, but also even the mere existence of a super injunction.
00:31:18
Speaker
They tried to ban the reports because they they were saying, well, it would put lives at risk and we can't we can't do that. and Oh, I think initially maybe there's some truth to that. slightly countered by the fact that the Taliban say they knew about this list all the time. And I can remember at the time that Kabul was falling, reporting on the fact that we had left information accidentally for the Taliban. So I'm not sure really how secret that was. But then Then what they did was start importing Afghans secretly into Britain.
00:31:48
Speaker
In the case of, I think, one town in Bracknell, it's called, there's like 300 Afghans just turned up and the locals were thought well, what where have they come from? And then they were basically told, don't believe your eyes, they've always been here.
00:31:59
Speaker
and then And then, you know, that was that was a bit of a problem for people. so So then it we didn't have those we didn't have the housing, we didn't have enough accommodation for some the Afghans. And now... The figures say that one in 20 Ministry of Defence homes are being being used to house Afghans and accommodate Afghans.
00:32:14
Speaker
And some British soldiers and their families have been moved out of their homes in order to make way for
Resettling Afghan Allies: A Question?
00:32:19
Speaker
them. There have been issues with criminality as well. So it was it was the largest evacuation of people, ah i think,
00:32:27
Speaker
either ever or since Dunkirk, I think. and And our government, successive governments, went to court to hide that from us. So there's there's almost, there's two interwoven scandals here. There is the, one is the actual act of bringing potentially now up to 200,000 Afghans into the United Kingdom.
00:32:47
Speaker
And then the second is attempting to cover that up. On the first piece, from what I've heard, there is Broad agreement across both sides that there was a duty of care to basically bring at least the the group that was supporting yeah UK soldiers, whether it be by ah as interpreters fighting on the front line, to bring them into the United Kingdom.
00:33:12
Speaker
This was my monologue on the Saturday Five on the weekend, and I got some pushback on this. My argument would be that not a single Afghan citizen, regardless of how much they may have helped, should be allowed in the United Kingdom.
00:33:24
Speaker
I think if you do think that there is a duty of care there, they should be resettled in a country that is more culturally compatible with those particular values. But all the stuff that we said at the start of this conversation about being Afghans being 20 times more likely to commit sexual assaults,
00:33:37
Speaker
about not being culturally compatible. That stuff doesn't change just because they worked as a translator. And my my thought would be that this sort of issue is about weighing risk and reward, as is the whole immigration question.
00:33:50
Speaker
And the risk to me seems to be, notwithstanding anything that they may have done to help the United Kingdom the past, an unacceptable risk to take. Where would you fall on that question? Yeah, well, to reinforce what you were saying, actually, it's it looks a lot like a lot of the people that did come over had previously failed an asylum claim or had not been vetted.
00:34:11
Speaker
So there is a difference, even for people who think that There is, I don't know, let's say a few hundred or a thousand or whatever Afghan interpreters that genuinely helped us and and all of that.
00:34:22
Speaker
Even if you think that they they should be the ones to come over. What I would say is if we were operating a system that, well, we just didn't know, the safest thing for Britain would to have not been allowing anyone to come over.
00:34:33
Speaker
That would have been safest thing. ah One person... ah brought something like 20 relatives with them, I think. One person brought 14 relatives with them. or were they all acting as interpreters? word they are I don't know. It seems seems a little bit rum now. you know It seems a little bit like someone won't be taking the mick. The average that I've heard is that everyone is taking at least, ah the average is eight.
00:34:52
Speaker
So so that that certainly makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. so so so so So there are concerns there, the massive concerns. You also make that great point, really, about countries that are more culturally compatible.
00:35:04
Speaker
Well, there were a lot of Afghans that did originally go to Pakistan, not s ones that we then helped bring over, but they went to Pakistan. Well, the Pakistani government has set about turfing them out of Pakistan in huge numbers over the course of the last last couple of years.
00:35:18
Speaker
You know, so that's been that's been underreported. think Why is it that the Pakistanis are so against having the Afghans in their country? What what what is that? What's going on there for them?
00:35:28
Speaker
and And it also begs the question as well, Will, whenever we get caught up in any foreign conflicts, I get that Afghanistan was was really largely our own doing, hasn't the Americans clearly, but yeah going forward, if we have, you know,
00:35:40
Speaker
any hand at all in anything that goes on internationally, does this now set the precedent that we have to then take in everyone who's got caught up in that? and Unless we secure a totally 100% decisive victory, where basically the British flag is hoisted over the consulate in Kabul and stays there forever, do are we then on the hook for any collateral damage on this?
00:36:03
Speaker
and and and And if so, I think it raises serious questions about about how involved Britain should be getting in conflict and issues going on around the world.
Role of British Charities in Migration
00:36:12
Speaker
Yeah, no, i I agree with that. I think that's a very good point. And yeah it reminds me of of ah of a ah clip that I saw, I think maybe this morning on on X, which is now going viral, of a green's a female Greens councillor who, without wanting to profile Greens,
00:36:28
Speaker
Too Much looked very much like a female Greens councillor. And she turned up to one of these hotels that is now housing illegal migrants and put out what sounded like a university level spiel about the you know value of taking in people from less fortunate countries and how the climate crisis is driving them away and all that sort of stuff.
00:36:49
Speaker
And you could hear the anger of, of what sounded like more working class, everyday folk around her. And then finally one person just exploded. then, know, I'm not necessarily saying it's, it's decorum was, was observed, but he said, when she said, you know, we have an obligation to the women and children of these countries who are fleeing from war-thorn areas or whatever.
00:37:09
Speaker
And he said, you know, what about our effing women and children in the United Kingdom? And to me, it just felt like in so many ways, this incredibly visceral encapsulation of the divide between that sort of liberal elite establishment that doesn't actually have to deal with the consequences of the actions of their policies and initiatives that the working class now need to actually have to to to take on every single day.
00:37:35
Speaker
And what was great about that video is I think you could see from her reaction that no one had ever said that to her before. And no one had ever said it in those forceful terms.
00:37:45
Speaker
You're right. There was a bit of an explosion from that man. but By the way, I've watched that clip a few times. difficult to identify exactly who it is. But I also think it might have been a black guy. And I think that that will have confused her as well. Because in in the kind of mindset of these people, they think that, you were the acting minorities surely surely they would all be in favor of this kind of thing of ah multiculturalism of ah open borders and all that and i think she had learned a very tough lesson there which she might still be processing somewhere in a vegan a vegan coffee shop in shawditch just rocking back and forward being like what happened there what happened there but interesting to see how she calls him racist you know but but there you go you make a great point there about their ideologies and worse than when i was in
00:38:25
Speaker
Calais, one thing I once i was desperate to do was try to speak to some of the charity workers, because a lot of them are British. There's a lot of British people go on work and work in Calais various different groups, and they they will say though they just provide them with clothes and food and a bit of tea and biscuits. What we showed, quite clearly, was that it wasn't just that. They also had on the side of water containers by a giant warehouse full of mostly Sudanese men, all of whom are looking to get lorries into Britain,
00:38:51
Speaker
is a step-by-step manual on how to break into Bristol. Numbers that you can call, how to send your GPS locations, you know, watch out for this kind of lorry because it's refrigerated and you might freeze to death, so get on this lorry. And then if you decide to get a boat, what you can do if your boat starts getting pushed back in the water. That's a manual that's come there in all the different languages, a lot of the different languages of people that that that are um you know that are trying to break into Bristol illegally. And we witnessed charity groups doing that. And when I spoke to to one of the the the ladies that was there,
00:39:18
Speaker
I did say to her, I said, as a woman, when you're helping people here and, you know, someone, statistically speaking, someone in that warehouse goes on and commits a violent sexual offense against a woman or a girl in Britain, do you feel any kind of way about that?
00:39:35
Speaker
And there's no answer. They're going, oh, no, sorry, we don't want to talk. We don't want to talk. I think that's a bit weak. You know, you know do they do they really think about the consequences of their actions? And I don't think they've been made to recently because they're just the good guys, aren't they? Well, I'm sorry, but people like us are here now we're taking more of an interest in it and we're more willing to actually go to them and question them in person. and I think they need a bit that.
Media's Reluctance on Immigration Coverage
00:39:59
Speaker
Let me pick up on that. People like us are here now because the other thing which I took away from your your trips or your trips now multiple to Calais is when I was watching, has was going, hang on a sec.
00:40:11
Speaker
Why have I not seen this before? it's not It's not a particularly long boat trip as we know across the channel. It is the immigration generally, but the illegal one part of it particularly is now the biggest political battleground in the United Kingdom. And I was just thinking,
00:40:27
Speaker
I haven't seen the BBC doing this. I haven't seen Sky News doing this. I haven't seen this is the first time, which is what made it so powerful. What does it say about modern journalism that we haven't seen this sort of stuff as often until perhaps maybe GV News came onto the scene and in recent years?
00:40:45
Speaker
So, well, firstly, I think they're broadly in favor of it. I think people, a lot of people at the BBC and Channel 4 News and all that stuff, the news agents and where these podcasts are now, probably broadly in favor of what's going on in the channel. I think they do subscribe to the view as well. But Keir Starmer seems to, this is all the fault of human traffickers. There's no personal autonomy whatsoever in it.
00:41:04
Speaker
I think there's a bigger question as well. If they went there, and showed it and showed how easy it was, like we've been able to do, then they couldn't really think that anymore. And they wouldn't be able to really justify their position. So I just don't think they want to look at it.
00:41:19
Speaker
And then the other thing as well is, it can come with a bit of heat, this stuff. So, all right, there is the personal safety aspects of it. You know, I don't, know, these organized gangs, are they going to try and bump me off because I've gone out there and spares them? Well, maybe, but I think in reality, probably not. We'll find out. But But i think I think one of the one of the other aspects ah of it is is that that they yeah that they their ideology would be completely hammered, wouldn't it?
Nigel Farage's Stance on Immigration
00:41:45
Speaker
It would just be just disappear, really. Yeah, that's the piece that I find most interesting. The willful blindness element to protect a worldview that you have built up for so long that would then be shattered.
00:41:58
Speaker
This really also goes to the heart of the the rape gang scandal as well. And that I think that that willful blindness was maintained for such a long period of time because the religion of multiculturalism is the binding thread across left-wing politics in 20, well, across the the two thousand s now.
00:42:15
Speaker
And so I think there there is a level of cognitive dissonance, which is almost about that protecting what I believe to be true, because my sense of self would be shattered if I didn't do so. I'm not wanting to upset your popularity in certain social standings.
00:42:31
Speaker
So at the moment, you know you look at someone like Paul Brand, I've not met the guy who's the big prominent journalist over here, was responsible for a lot of the party gate stuff. He won loads of awards for party gate.
00:42:43
Speaker
That's the kind of thing that will win you an award in British politics, because a lot of them are voted on by people who maybe used to run Ofcom, used to run Newsnight, used to work at The Guardian. If you go and do the kind of stuff that that that I've just done out there, you could possibly make yourself quite unpopular around the the dinner party circuit for the parents ah who all send their kids to Eton, despite moaning about privilege, like certainly one very prominent journalist in Britain at the moment. But anyway...
00:43:07
Speaker
ah You could become less popular there because you've helped to shatter their worldview. You could be called, oh gosh, you know, it was a bit racist what you did there. So they're just not willing to do it. They're not willing to do it and they don't see any gain for them in it.
00:43:18
Speaker
Well, let me throw a grenade into the conversation. I've heard some people argue that your GB News colleague and at this stage, likely future Prime Minister Nigel Farage, may not be as willing to tackle the problems around immigration and particularly Islam as perhaps his base may want him to be because he is still wanting to be accepted by that particular elite class.
00:43:39
Speaker
How do you reflect on Farage and his willingness to tackle some of the problems we've been talking about? well I can only go really off my anecdotal experience of Nigel Farage, having known him and in various different forms for, I don't know, maybe like eight years or so now.
00:43:55
Speaker
And I've never really heard him express a view that I thought was particularly soft on any of this. He is quite old school in of his thoughts. There is ah yeah clearly going to have to be, if you're going to win a majority at general election, you are going to have to to to to to create ah a big voter base, a big voter base.
00:44:16
Speaker
And maybe there is a sense that just moderating some of the language might help bring in some people who previously worked were against it. There is unfortunately, I think, a large cohort of people in Britain who...
Conservative Party's Decline and Reform Debate
00:44:31
Speaker
would think that Keir Starmer is utterly incompetent, a bit of a fool, possibly a liar, and massively out of his depth, and not a good leader, but would vote for him over Nigel Farage every day because, oh, they just don't really like Nigel. Now, I think those people are really thick.
00:44:46
Speaker
But Nigel's maybe looked at that and thought, well, okay, what could I do here to to tries to to try to um you know she tries to cook get a few more of those those vote is there I don't think he's been particularly soft on things.
00:44:59
Speaker
There are issues. There are all things I know that people talk a lot about, like remigration, for example, which is just certainly certainly big on social media. I suspect it's becoming more talked about yeah down the pubs and all of that.
00:45:11
Speaker
it There has to be a slight element of realism about that, which is that, you know, I'm all for encouraging people to, I would like to see people go go back to ah various of their countries if they you know if they're not contributing here and all of that stuff. and And I think that they should be it should be heavilyly commute heavily convinced to do that.
00:45:29
Speaker
but But do you just, in practice, do you just go to like a town like Oldham? and throw a net over it, and then, what, get them all on a plane?
00:45:40
Speaker
Well, no, you're not going to do that, and you can't do that. So Nigel Farage can't say he's going to do that, can he? Because it's not it's just not going to happen. Even if some even if some people actually wanted that happen, it just couldn't happen. So, you know, when people say he's gone a bit soft and everything,
00:45:57
Speaker
kind don't know what they want him to say necessarily sometimes. There was one thing I thought he should have done. it Maybe you did it later in the day, and i didn't I didn't see it at the time. But when it was the anniversary of 7-7, I think it was actually only Kemi Baden-Ock that and was called it what it was, right?
00:46:13
Speaker
Which was an Islamist terror attack. Now, was surprised that Nigel hadn't done that because he's done that, I think he's done that in the past. ah Is it more cock-up than conspiracy then? I don't know. But, you know, we'll wait and what we're going Yeah, I recall seeing that video from him and and he basically started the video by saying, I'm going to tell you something that no politician will say.
00:46:33
Speaker
And I did think at the time, Nigel, if you're going to say, I'm going to tell something that no politician will say, the end can't go on and not say it. But look, I can understand the position that he is in. And like any startup, it is fragile. And this is a startup political movement.
00:46:48
Speaker
And they are seeing their share of challenges from an operational level with MPs leaving and that sort of stuff. the ah the Obviously, the the establishment Conservative Party, the Conservatives ah have their own challenges and they are existential challenges.
00:47:03
Speaker
Do you think the Conservatives are done as a political force in the United Kingdom? ah well Well, at the moment they are. I don't think it's i don't think it's impossible for them to to regroup at some point and and form another form.
00:47:15
Speaker
ah I just think I looked at the the reappointment of James Cleverley who, again, I've met personally and he's a nice guy and he's actually quite a good company. He's quite fun and all of that. But it's not Not necessarily what you need need in power, is it?
00:47:27
Speaker
yeah The guy who's anti-leading the ECHR was rumoured to have called the Rwanda deal batshit before becoming home secretary and then basically being in charge of trying to enforce the Rwanda deal. I do question... great Aggressively prone at zero.
00:47:41
Speaker
aggressively pro-net, yes, famously so, aggressively pro-net zero. So again, I do kind of question the ideology of of person there. Are they actually really conservative? The problem that conservatives have got, which you well know, and most people watching and listening to this will know, is that they didn't bother to conserve Britain for the best part of 14 years.
00:47:57
Speaker
So why should we trust them now?
Hope in Shifting Political Activism
00:47:59
Speaker
And I think to link back to your reform point earlier on, if if people watching this subscribe to the view that I do, which is that I think we have one chance left to save Britain, and that is the next general election, are they going to vote Labour?
00:48:13
Speaker
um Probably Are they going to vote Lib Dem? What's the point? You know, the Greens. So really, it's between the Tories and reform. And whilst there are some valid concerns about reform, which is that, okay, it's a startup, as you said, and do we know everything about every one of their candidates? And oh the case is there going to be the odd scandal? Fine.
00:48:30
Speaker
We kind of do know about the Conservatives, don't we? Because we've had a really good look at them. And they are to blame for pretty pretty much everything, the way I look at it. So are people going to want to give the Tories another chance? Or are they willing, if if they have that view that there's one chance left to save Britain, are they willing and to go for the Hail Mary and vote and vote reform? I don't know.
00:48:51
Speaker
It's an interesting place for us to to finish on with a final question, that line, one chance left to save Britain. So it's a pretty bracing comment, but I agree with you. We've talked about scandal after scandal. We've talked about the systemic problems in the United Kingdom the moment. We haven't even talked about the economic issues, which are arguably more dire than even the cultural issues.
00:49:13
Speaker
This is, it's it's it's grim. There's no two ways about it. This is a very grim period. Are there reasons for optimism in the United Kingdom at the moment? How do you see the outlook for the country? Let's see i say over the next five and 10 years, how do you look at at the country's future?
00:49:26
Speaker
but Okay, well, I think we're going to have to deal with a bit of pain for the next few years because I don't see how this really gets a lot better with the current crop of people in charge. So I think most people now accept that and it's unfortunate and that's a shame. However,
00:49:40
Speaker
The Overton window is shifting, and it massively is shifting. Ideas and thoughts and vocalizations that were previously deemed unpalatable enough to get you canceled are now, I think, thanks to the kind of conversations that we have and loads loads of other people now are having. It's obviously not just us at all. Loads of other people having that That's been dragged into more into the mainstream now.
00:50:00
Speaker
What I noticed as well, which I think is a real cause for hope, is that when people say hello hello to me in the street or out and about on holiday or whatever, and they say ah they watch TV news, they like the show, they like the kind of stuff that we do, they're getting younger.
00:50:14
Speaker
So they are they are, I mean, boys and girls, 16 to 24. You've got every other age range as well. But that, I think, is a real ray of hope in this, which is yeah all is not lost. i think the pushback is coming from those those youngsters now because they just think that We've tried it the lefty way for decades and it's screwed it, hasn't it?
00:50:41
Speaker
It's screwed it. So so i think i think there's I think there are reasons reasons for hope. And I think we have got to a point ultimately where I think that people have had enough and are not willing to take any BS
Conclusion and Invitation to GB News
00:50:54
Speaker
anymore.
00:50:54
Speaker
And so, there's yeah, there's there's hope there. There's hope there. Yeah, I agree entirely. And I agree with that observation around younger generations who are waking up to this. ah Patrick, where and when can people see the show?
00:51:06
Speaker
Oh, thank you. Yeah, so 9 to 11pm, Monday to Friday on GB News. And then I do a newspaper show as well after that, 11pm until midnight. It's Monday to Friday. And by the way, I do a live studio audience show on a Friday night, 9 to 11pm. So if you can find that online, you can get a ticket and I can meet you in person. So yeah.
00:51:25
Speaker
The link is in the show notes. Patrick, fascinating chat as ever. Mate, thank you very much for coming on. Thanks for having me. A pleasure.