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What The Heel PILOT Episode: Big Boss Man
32 Plays3 years ago
It’s the debut of a new show in the Chick Foleyverse!
The “MVP” Marco leads Heel Husband in a discussion and examination of some of the most despicable heels in the history of professional wrestling.
They spend the first episode examining all the dastardly acts of the one and only Big Boss Man. They go thru the original Twin Towers run, his time as Head of Security for The Corporatation, and the truly evil acts he committed towards the end of his time in WWF.
Plus, a Boss Man exclusive Listener Mail!
Use code CHICKFOLEY to save 10% at www.ringsidecollectibles.com
Find all things CHICK at www.CHICKFOLEY.com
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Transcript
Introduction of New Show
00:00:22
Speaker
Oh baby, went back. Well, I'm back and I have a host with me this time. This is not open mic. This is a new, new and improved show on the Chick-Fully, on the Chick-Fully feed on the MVP Marco.
00:00:41
Speaker
And along with me this time is none other than the Hill husband. So he's not my husband, but he's the Hill husband. Seth Phelps. Not that there's anything wrong with that. No, not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm not stealing anyone's man. I'm not a home wrecker.
00:00:57
Speaker
Alright, this is something me and Mark have been talking about for a while. We had a couple other concepts that we were also kicked around potentially doing, but we're going to start off trying out with the heel. This is the pilot episode you're hearing. I think this is kind of like the heel, like the bad brother from the streets of the baby face open mic, you know?
Inspiration for the Show
00:01:17
Speaker
Yeah, that's what the concept is. I think I brought this up to you just to give a little background on it. I think I brought this up maybe around maybe a time last year. I think we were texting. I think I texted you out of nowhere. I was like, dude, we need to do some type of show together. And then I was just like, the first person I thought of
00:01:38
Speaker
was uh as you guessed it if you hear you heard the intro music big boss man um he's the one that kind of inspired this type of show where you know we're gonna take a a heel or someone that had a heel persona and kind of run through that that heel run that they had um and it's what the heel because for the most part i mean with big boss man in particular he did some uh
00:01:59
Speaker
Pretty crazy thing. Yeah, he was ahead of his time. We'll put it this way. He would not be able to be who he is today in the world we live in now with the type of stuff he did.
00:02:16
Speaker
the back of the attitude and even in the 80s which will run down but yeah this is exciting for me because it's another show under the belt besides the open mic which will definitely come back at some point but I kind of want to get this out and hopefully this will be as successful. We can continue to do more. We have a couple more ideas coming down the pike too. We already have a second episode lined up. I won't give that away but
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, let us know, obviously. Let us know if you enjoy the show and we'll take it from there. So well, let's start off with, like I said, the big boss man.
00:02:58
Speaker
When he first started, obviously, he was a face. Actually, no, he was a heel. Then he turned into a face. So we'll run into his 80s run as a heel. We're going to bypass all that stuff to how he got into the company and all that. And we're going to go right into the nitty gritty.
Big Boss Man's Character
00:03:17
Speaker
We're going to start off with, obviously, if you don't know the big boss man, his gimmick, which he lives by his previous profession, which is a corrections officer. His post-match gimmick, obviously, was after he defeated his opponents, he would handcuff them to the ropes and beat them
00:03:36
Speaker
Uh, to death, not to death, but beat them mercifully with his, uh, with his nightstick. So, uh, if you remember that, uh, I did, I thought he was the scariest man alive when I was little seeing him do that. And, uh, I just hope he didn't do that to the beloved Hulk Hogan, which he, you know, ended up doing anyway. But, uh, Seth, what was your, uh, what were your thoughts on the, uh, on the big boss man, uh, when he, when he first entered into the WWF at the time?
00:04:03
Speaker
You know I was reflecting on it as you did that that beautiful intro right there man he may have been the first of the occupational gimmicks because you know he was when he came in there kind of kind of mid to late 80s a lot of times guys were just wrestlers still at that point man and you know
00:04:20
Speaker
Yeah, for for people our age we got conditioned there through the the early 90s and especially in the new gen era Of you know, every wrestler had a job, right? You you had they weren't just wrestling They were they were taxmen, you know, they were they were porn stars They were they were they were plumbers. They were dentists like, you know, they were they were grave diggers in the undertakers case I'm trying to think dude I think as far as like gold making like, you know Really leaning into uh, you know that this guy had this job that he was and just came a wrestler He may have been the first and you know
00:04:51
Speaker
Obviously, you know, we respect the boys in blue, man, they keep it safe out there. But still, dude, everybody's always at a minimum, you've at least been annoyed by the cops before, even if you're, you know, hardcore, whatever, you know, blue lives matter person, dude, you still got some annoying SP and take it from some cop who could have had anything better to do on that day.
00:05:10
Speaker
instead of pulling your ass over for going, you know, 54 at a 45. So I think it did make for a really good heel gimmick because at the end of the day, man, his gimmick was all about abuse of power.
Early Wrestling Career and Feuds
00:05:21
Speaker
You know, you think about a cop taking advantage of folks. Yeah. And, you know, he would, like you said, he would handcuff folks of the ring, just beat him with that nightstick. And he was very, very hateable, man.
00:05:31
Speaker
Ray trailer that the man behind the gimmick was an awesome actor and You know as great of a gimmick as you know bad guy cop is I don't know if it would have been the same if there was anybody else besides him portraying it Yeah, he just said he just had definitely had that look like I kind of said before like he was a scary dude just big just he just looked abusive even his eye, you know
00:05:57
Speaker
Oh yeah, he looked like he could be a good guy, but he always had that grimace to his face that he would do. You could definitely tell he had some evil intentions. But I did fail to say, I gotta always say that he's built from, obviously, the Department of Corrections and Cobb County, Georgia. We can't forget that, because it is an occupation, which was his gimmick, so we have to throw that in there.
00:06:27
Speaker
But yeah, I mean he's uh, yeah, he was a he was a menace and as we go through this he
00:06:36
Speaker
You know, he kind of single-handedly, not single-handedly, he had some help with, you know, Akeem, the African dream. He had a part of the megapar was exploding. Yeah. Yeah. So do you remember, like, do you remember, like, you know, obviously he wasn't like intentionally, you know, trying to make, you know, Hogan and Macho Man split up, but he, you know,
00:06:59
Speaker
Those the few that they had During that time, but they weren't really that they weren't the mega powers yet They're kind of like teaming up to fight these two and then obviously they formed the mega powers But they had some they had some dealings, you know, you know, they they had an instance where macho man walked off and ended up leaving Hogan at some point and leaving of the to get beaten down by the boss man and stuff like that but uh, so what do you like what do you remember from a
00:07:26
Speaker
from the, you know, from the boss man's part in the, the beginning of the demise of the, the mega powers. So all that stuff was kind of ahead of my time in real time, man. I WrestleMania six, like from that point on is where I was keeping up with the week to week TV, but I've definitely gone back and relived like 88 and 89 a lot.
00:07:45
Speaker
you know, him and Akeem were just the big bads. They were never really portrayed as like threats to be tag team champs. They were like the, the bebop and rocksteady for if you're an Ninja Turtles fan, man, you'd get that reference. They were like the bebop and rocksteady of their day, just two big imposing thugs. They had the master style slick as their manager to really help just round out the package. And, and they were the perfect foils to be the guys that, you know, the mega power ship going up against, because even though they were, they were never portrayed as like, you know,
00:08:12
Speaker
World champion threats like they were still just big dudes and they both go in the ring good enough that they put on some good matches with those guys Yeah, and uh, they uh, they did you know that you know, obviously we'll talk a little about the twin towers and stuff like that You know, they they they faced, you know, they faced the rockers. I think it was that was a WrestleMania 5. Yep Pretty good little man. They they feuded with that
00:08:37
Speaker
Yep. They feuded with demolition. I think for the for the tag team championships. And then they, you know, towards the end there, you know, boss man ended up, you know, feuded with Hogan and stuff like that. They had a, they had a bunch of, you know, steel cage matches. And obviously, the most memorable one was a Saturday's main event, when Hogan ended up, you know,
00:09:01
Speaker
Give it the other big guy The suplex off the top of the cage. I went back and watch that on YouTube I was kind of doing some some boss man deep dive and when I was you know, just trying to I wouldn't even really call it research I think I was just trying to jog my memory from some of the key moments throughout boss man's career that we were gonna cover That may be the biggest bump we Hulk Hogan ever took dude He was the one given the superplex like I can't remember taking too many bumps off the top rope, dude I don't know if we ever saw Hulk take a bigger spot than that
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think so either. Boss was big dude. He was like, I think they said he was like three. He was like around 350. He was the heaviest in that, that first heel run, man. He slimmed down a lot when he went baby facing kind of stayed that same size the rest of his time and the pro wrestling world. But yeah, he was a much, he was a true super heavyweight that initial heel run.
00:09:55
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I kind of want to bring it back to them, you know, feuding with the Mega Powers, because the reason why I said he was kind of like in the midst of that whole, like, you know, the turning of Savage, because they were the opponents that night of the Mega Powers when, you know, Savage, you know, made his decision to turn on, well, not really turn on Hogan.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So was it influence? I mean, kind of like outside influence from the, you know, the Twin Towers, maybe you've seen, you know, the, you know, the fun that they were having as heels, and the hurt they were putting on Hogan, you know, and all the stuff that's happening with, you know, Elizabeth and stuff like that. And maybe that kind of, maybe that did, maybe Boss Man did kind of rub off on Savage. And he's like, you know what? No, fuck Hogan. I'm gonna kick his ass. You guys are right. I should join you. But yeah, that's, that's pretty much, that's how I,
00:10:50
Speaker
I thought it went down anyway, in Macho Man's mind.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, I want to go fast forward a little bit back to that uh him being a big man Uh, would you say he's one of like the most agile? Uh big man at the time Yeah He slimmed down so much when he went to his babyface run that I feel like A lot of fans kind of forget just how big he was but he was still just as agile as he was As a babyface for for being a bigger guy. He still had that same range of movement um
00:11:23
Speaker
when he was a heel carrying the extra poundage. So I think it's kind of forgotten, but yeah, dude, he's right there. And, you know, I'd probably put him a step below the, the bam, bam, big lows and the Vaders of the world. But he's definitely in the, you know, the top three or 4% of big guys, as far as being agile and being able to get some serious movement going in the ring.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think he's kind of, I don't want to say he's forgotten as one of the fast-paced or the athletic big men back in the day, but there were like few and far between. Obviously, you had your dusty roads and stuff like that.
00:12:05
Speaker
The WWF at the time, everyone's chiseled to perfection pretty much. You have boss man coming in, just doing all these super fast, very explosive, as a heel should be coming in, being able to put the hurting on people if needed.
00:12:28
Speaker
Another big difference between when he was a baby facing a heel that first run, he would always look much sloppier during that heel run. The shirt seemed like it was buttoned a couple of times lower. It would come untucked a lot more and stuff. He looked a mess, but I think it worked for him.
00:12:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think it just went in with the uh With the with the gimmick and uh, he you know, i'm not sure if he he did obviously turn face But you know, he was still kind of like He still had like heel tactics. Obviously he stopped, you know when he turned face He stopped, you know beating people up and you know handcuffing him to the ropes and continuing the beat down and stuff like that He stopped things like that, but he was still doing like, you know, jailhouse matches
00:13:12
Speaker
obviously with the Mountie throwing him in jail. He still had that lust to throw people in jail and serve them the long arm of the law if he needed to. I wasn't too keen on his baby face run. I think he was just trying to weasel his way into a super startup. And then once he got to that fame, he would turn to heal in no time, which we'll get into.
00:13:38
Speaker
I got some thoughts on this babyface run, man, if we can take a quick side tour. And I've expressed this sentiment before. Oh, yeah. No, definitely. On the main chick Foley show. That babyface run was all bullshit, dude. Where is the revisionist history for my man, Nails, dude? Nails was correct. I think after seeing, obviously at the time, Nails just seemed like some stupid ex-con. But seeing everything that boss man did, how evil he was on that second run, which we're going to get to in a little bit, dude.
00:14:06
Speaker
It is fully believable now that that motherfucker was abusing the prisoners down there in the Cobb County Jail, dude. So there is not a shred of doubt in my mind that everything Nails was saying was true. And obviously, he was a big, scary-looking fucker. But dude, who wouldn't have turned into a scary, evil person if you're incarcerated for what he said. I think Nails said that he was in jail for some overdue parking tickets. That was the story, man. And you're just getting abused by this fat, sloppy cop from freaking Cobb County,
00:14:36
Speaker
Like yeah, man, I would be I'd be upset too, man I think that probably turned me to it take me to a dark place as well dude So, you know, we need to get some love going for nails man to get him back in the wrestling world because he was right
Questioning Big Boss Man's Face Turn
00:14:49
Speaker
there There's when are we gonna I don't know when the wrestling fans are gonna revisit that and get justice for nails because it needs to happen. I
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah. Hashtag justice for nails. Yes. But yeah, that's, that's, that was, that's one of the things that, you know, he, he, uh, you know, I think it's around like 92. He ends up, uh, you know, 91, he ends up, you know, turning face and stuff like that. And feuded with, uh, Bobby heat and stuff, uh, with the, in the heated family, but we'll skip all that. It will go right. Like you said, we'll go right to nails. Like he, he's definitely a hail dude. Like he, you know,
00:15:25
Speaker
You don't come out, I don't think Nails is lying. I'm with you on that. I think he's just, you know, tell the truth. He was telling his story and whether you wanted to believe it or not, he was, you know, he's getting abused in jail by the big boss man. And like you said, as we go down, you know,
00:15:43
Speaker
It's horrible. No one deserves to live that way, especially a criminal. You're serving your time already. You don't need to be beaten up more and more. He did get his revenge, though, Nails. He did end up
00:16:01
Speaker
Making boss man serve hard time. He did uh end up. You know handcuffing boss man at one point And then beating him with the nightstick, so he got he got some you got some revenge And you know they obviously they have like a series of matches and stuff which you know in 92 they did a nightstick on a pole match at Survivor Series if you if anyone wants to you know take a trip down memory lane and go watch that Probably don't want to but
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, I I wouldn't I'd stay clear away from that. But yeah, well, we got to jump we got to jump a little bit forward. Did you want to talk about his uh, you know, WCW run in the it is hail business there. He didn't do anything super significant, man. There's some pretty good matches if you want to see out here. He did some fun stuff with Jim Duggan. I think they did. I think it was called like the Carson City silver dollar match where you're allowed to have like a roll of quarters as a weapon. And he had some pretty good horse fights with
00:16:55
Speaker
with Vader, but nothing super significant. And then he ends up having a little run there with the NWO being their security as kind of a little play on the big boss man gimmick. Um, but yeah, like I said, this check out the stuff with hacksaw Jim Duggan, check out stuff with Vader. Um, and, and one other thing I want to mention, man, before we get into the real meat of the show, talking about his second WWE run.
00:17:16
Speaker
something we're going to do for the concept on what the heel in the show notes, I'm going to put together a little playlist man. Oh, if I can find clips off YouTube, it's just gonna it'll be that but if not, I'll put the the specific events you need to go and look up on peacock, David slash WWE network to kind of relive a lot of the stuff that we're going to talk through. So
00:17:35
Speaker
you know, swipe up. I think that's the way it works on most of the podcasting apps, you can swipe up on the episode and see all of our show notes. So in addition to the sponsors and stuff info, we'll give you a little playlist that way you can kind of if you ever want to pause the show and revisit some of this stuff as we talk about it, we'll try to make it as easy as possible for you.
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah, definitely when you have the time, definitely go back and check out the clips. It's best if you're not educated on a big boss man. If you want to know a little bit more and see these actual things that we're talking about, definitely go back. If you can find them, hopefully you can find some of these things because some of the stuff we're going to talk about.
00:18:17
Speaker
That big boss man did his pretty heinous video in the rest of the world. Watch it quickly. All of these What The Heal episodes, they're designed to be...
00:18:28
Speaker
to be evergreen, right? Well, we'll make sure that they're clearly annotated in the in like the archives of the podcast. So like these are going to be set up for you to go and record this or to go back to list these any time and they'll still hit the same. But it is March 30th, 2023, as we record this. And you never know when this stuff is. Some of the stuff Boss Man did could totally end up being erased from the from Peacock and WWE Network. So don't wait around to watch it. You know, especially this stuff, man. Watch it quickly as you can.
00:18:58
Speaker
Exactly. So just to recap real quick, he comes in, beats people up, handcuffs them to the robes, beats them with a nightstick, kind of breaks up the mega powers by rubbing off on Savage. He got his comeuppance from his former prisoner nails that he abused a lot at his previous profession.
00:19:26
Speaker
Uh, he did a little step WCW. We're not going to really speak on that. Like he said, it's not really like the, you know, the greatest run. He wasn't the big boss man. He was, yeah, nothing, nothing too crazy. Uh, but what, what we got to fast forward to, uh, I believe it was at 1998. Yep. Um, the big boss man makes his, his, his return. Um,
00:19:49
Speaker
as the security guard or bodyguard for Mr. McMahon and the corporation at the time. And this is where we kind of talked about him.
Return as a Heel in 1998
00:20:01
Speaker
He was a heel. He was a face and stuff like that. I think this boss man is the real, this is the real boss man right here. The boss man that we're about to talk about is what he's always been and what he's always wanted to be. He just couldn't obviously do it earlier in his career.
00:20:19
Speaker
you know, play the field, you have to go be a bad guy to be a good guy. But now he can just be, you know, that that just like, asshole of a person that he always wanted to be. So yeah.
00:20:32
Speaker
So yeah, so he aligns himself with Vince McMahon, joins the corporation. Obviously, the corporation is at odds with pretty much everybody in the WWF at the time, Steve Austin to Generation X. They have quite the crew. I don't think they needed boss man at the, they had Ken Shamrock and
00:20:53
Speaker
Who else did they have? Undertaker, pretty much. They had the corporate ministry for a while. Then Kane was in there solo with them. They had tests. They had some muscle, for sure.
00:21:06
Speaker
Yeah. He was, he was, he was known as like the personal security, uh, for, for the, the corporation. He's, you know, he did a lot of, a lot of stuff, uh, you know, going back to like to see survivor series, a deadly game, you know, um, you know, thwarting, uh, Steve Austin's efforts to win the championship, all that type of stuff. Um, he did with the, uh, tag team championship with Ken Shamrock during that, that run as well. Um, that was his first taste of the goals.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And then he obviously was known for the hardcore championship more than anything. He ended up winning that four times, I believe. But one of the guys he, you know, feuded with was the Undertaker.
00:21:51
Speaker
He, uh, this is one of those things where you may not be able to see it. They may erase us from, uh, WWE history, but, uh, he has a match at WrestleMania 15 with the undertaker long. Like they have a pretty, pretty decent size feud. It all culminates at WrestleMania 15. And what, what, I mean, we're at WrestleMania season right now. So perfect time to talk about this. He, uh, it was a hell of a sell match, uh, with the undertaker versus he, uh, you know,
00:22:22
Speaker
You have Hail versus Hail at the time, exactly. Hell is so matchy, he ends up losing. But, you know, Undertaker being who he is in the late 90s, 98, he was evil as well. And he not only wanted to defeat the big boss man, he seemed, I guess he wanted to kill him as well.
00:22:45
Speaker
He hung Big Boss Man on the shelf so he could put it. So the Boss Man was basically just inside the cage, just suspended in the air. I mean, how old was I? Geez. I just remember watching that, being in shock that he was gonna die. I know he was an evil person and he did all these bad things, but come on, dude. You can't die like this. Just hang on, no pun intended.
00:23:14
Speaker
And they were trying to pitch it. I remember watching this and just like, they were trying to soften it up, I guess. This had to have been like a Vince Russo idea because Michael Cole's like, what is this supposed to symbolize? And it's like, dude, it's not symbolizing anything. The dude's fucking swinging, man, from the top of the hill to self.
00:23:32
Speaker
I remember it was just so ironic because you never see boss make it free or anything. The last thing you see is, you know, his feet swing and he's dangling and then it fades to black and launches a commercial for, you know, back in the day, there was a thing like as soon as WrestleMania would end, a lot of our listeners are probably like, what the hell you guys even talking about? On the home shopping network, there'd be like an hour long show where
00:23:51
Speaker
They'd be selling a bunch of merch straight from WrestleMania and just other stuff. WWE would take over the home shopping network or it was either the home shopping network or it was QVC, but they would take it over for like an hour, hour and a half after WrestleMania and they started doing a commercial for that. So it's like, okay, we just watched this guy get fucking murdered, but go get your Stone Cold Steve Austin shirt for $29.99, you know, right after the show.
00:24:17
Speaker
Yeah, that was pretty insane. You know, like he had, you know, you would say he had to come into him all the sins that he's done in the past. You know, the undertaker just tried to cleanse him of his sins. That's what he was trying to do. Maybe that's what the symbolism was. That's what they were trying to go for. They couldn't come out right out and say it. I don't know. But if there's one thing you do know is that you can't kill the big boss man.
00:24:42
Speaker
He, you know, he, he, he came back to life apparently. And, uh, cause that, I mean, let's go back to that. That looked real, dude. Like it looked like he was really like dead. Very striking. I think they had.
00:24:56
Speaker
I think that even though they had the the like the you know the news around his neck I think they had another safety harness clipped to the back of that vest that he wore. And that's really what you know his weight was suspended from but, but yeah it was, it was insane man it was crazy. Another quick shout out man before we go on we do got to get credit where credits do.
00:25:14
Speaker
Big boss man, dude, a fashion icon. The look that he's rocking on his second run with WWE is very, very strikingly similar to a certain three person faction where, you know, we're all three members of going to be grand slam champs and, and WWE and beyond. You know, if you're not picking up a really down yet, the shield basically ripped their look from the big boss man, you know, with the, all the SWAT gear.
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I was actually, you know, it's funny with the, uh, with, uh, I have that, uh, boss man figure. Um, what, what the heck line was that with the, uh, when it comes with the ski mask elite 47 and the night stick.
00:25:50
Speaker
Yeah, Lee 47, yeah. So I have that. I actually put him with the shield because he looked exactly like, you know, like, well, I should say they look exactly like him. But yeah, no, they, you know, they had the same similar idea of serving justice. They were the hounds of justice. And that's what, you know, that's what Boston was all about, serving justice and making people serve hard times. So I mean,
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's they could they could deny it, but that's where they definitely got their their inspiration was from that from that late run of the the boss man. But like I said, I mean, he survived the hanging as only big boss man can do. And then we'll move on to the to the to to one of the one of the meat, the meat potatoes of the of this hill run is his feud with Al Snow.
Feud with Al Snow
00:26:40
Speaker
I see what you did there, man. I'm for those that little that pun there.
00:26:46
Speaker
About the meat potatoes. I mean, I try. Yeah, I mean, that's there you go. See, I'm glad you picked that up. Well, well, if if you listen to this, you probably don't know if you do, you'll catch our drift soon. So you had a bunch of, you know, hardcore matches with with Al Snow. And then we get into this storyline with Al Snow and his it is lovely little dog pepper. Yeah.
00:27:17
Speaker
How do you want to go about this? Is there anything you want to add before we deep dive into the Al Snow big boss man feud? Is there anything memorable? I know they had a lot of memorable matches. A lot of their hardcore matches didn't really end up in the ring. They were all over the place. Is there anything you remember from their
00:27:35
Speaker
for their matches. You know, there's really only one match we're going to talk about. There's one match we're going to get into that's super memorable, but I will say the hardcore championship was a fun little diversion for the low card guys back during this time frame. It's kind of what what the you know, the 24 seven championship ended up just being
00:27:51
Speaker
ridiculously comical and just lost all of its value. The hardcore championship was still, you know, it was still a lot of comedy, but it was at least presented as something worth fighting for. And you would occasionally have some moments of brilliance around it back in, you know, from 98 to 2000. But yeah, I'll let you get into, like you said, the meat, if you will, and potatoes of the Al Snow Big Boss Man storyline.
00:28:17
Speaker
Well, yeah, so that, you know, obviously, you know, keeping keeping the, you know, the title of the show live, what the hell this is, these are pretty crazy moments. And I think that, you know, the the hardcore division was perfect for boss man.
00:28:32
Speaker
Like not that, you know, not that he couldn't, you know, fight for the WWF championship at the time, um, or the intercontinental, but it just like his gimmick and his, the, like the lifestyle that he portrayed on there was hardcore. And this is just like a perfect, like just down and dirty, you know, beat the shit out of people, um, use whatever you can to do it. And that's, that's, that's who he was. And I was, I mean, I'm just like going back and like just reading up on it and then going back and watching this stuff, like,
00:29:00
Speaker
definitely brings back some memories. Those matches are super entertaining with him and Al Snow, but we'll go to one of their matches at SummerSlam.
00:29:14
Speaker
They didn't make it to the ring at all. It's kind of like I said, they kind of like went all over the place. Fought in the back, fought in the street, at a bar, all this stuff. I think that was one of them. I think, was it Road Dogg? Did he show up at one of the bars or something like that? Or he's doing commentary? Yeah, he just happened to be there.
00:29:37
Speaker
yeah i just happen to be there is i don't like live commentary some shit but i'm yes so so what will circle back to our snows dog pepper so his carrier was in the at the end of at the batch
00:29:54
Speaker
and the dog wasn't there. So, Boss Man proceeded to pick up the dog carrier, kind of jawjacked the dog, as they like to say, kind of like mouthed off to the dog in the carrier, proceeded to hit El Snow with
00:30:12
Speaker
the carrier with the dog in it, and then just tossed it. Tossed it with the dog inside. Just tossed it behind him. He was just like rubbish. Any dog lovers out there? Jim Ross did apologize, and he did tell that it was a stunt, and no dogs are harmed, and stuff like that. Yeah, they had to keep the national humane society up their ass.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, I mean, but come on, it's like, it's entertainment. You know, there's not a dog in there. Like, like, give us that suspension that like, he actually threw the, you know, carry with the dog in it. Cause that's what boss man does. He's not a nice guy. We, we established this already. So why is it crazy? I think sometimes you'd be better off freaking attacking a kid than you would be attacking an animal on live TV.
00:31:03
Speaker
True, that is very true. But yeah, do you remember this? Did you watch this recently? Are you going to go back and watch it now if you haven't watched it recently? That particular segment, I remember watching it live and being like, holy shit. Because in real time, there was absolutely no reason to believe that they had swapped the dog out, especially I think I was 14 when this was happening. Yeah, exactly.
00:31:25
Speaker
And the attitude there, I was still, you know, they were doing so much crazy shit. Like this was probably like only the fourth or fifth craziest thing to happen that week on, on WWF TV. But, but yeah, man, it's just, you know, like I said, boss man's fucking evil, dude.
00:31:42
Speaker
Like I said if you're a dog lover out there, and I know you know there's a lot of dog lovers out there No, no harm. No foul without it's just this is boss man, and this is he's a he'll do it. It's like it's awful, but If you think that was bad we're gonna move on to the the next part of the Al Snow boss man saga involving Pepper and this one was a
00:32:07
Speaker
who comedy gold for some people, I guess, I don't know. So, you know, the big boss man wasn't a big fan of Pepper and he, you know, he got rid of Pepper and he fed Pepper to Al Snow. Pepper steak. He tricked Al Snow eating his pep. Yeah. You like that pepper steak?
00:32:37
Speaker
And then, you know, Al sells puke at all. Oh God, no, I can't believe they didn't actually show him do anything to the dog. You just like, you know.
00:32:46
Speaker
you know, kind of fed Al Sano some meat. And then, you know, Al Sano was like, oh, this is really good. And he's like, yeah, it's a dog pepper. And so, yeah, he's a big boss man. First, tossed pepper behind him, like pepper was nothing. And then he killed pepper and fed him to Al Sano. Thoughts?
00:33:09
Speaker
thoughts and condolences for us at Pepper, and then thoughts, Seth, what would we make of this? It's just one of the all-time most heinous heel things ever seen on TV, man. I mean, it's bad enough killing somebody's dog, right? Like you think back, I know at some point we're going to do an earthquake episode. This is probably right up there with earthquake killing Damien while Jake the Snake is tied up in the ropes, man. Like, you know, that one was bad because he's killing the guy's pet right in front of him.
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah geez you know i mean this is just as bad right cuz you know as far as i'll snow new pepper was missing and boss man invited him to you know it's hotel room to share a meal to kind of make amends cuz you know supposedly he felt bad about about pepper being missing it and then come to find out no he killed your dog and fed it to him like.
00:33:58
Speaker
That's just one of the most evil sociopathic things we've ever seen in wrestling. And because it happened in the low-mid card, I feel like it's kind of gotten swept away to the sands of time. Obviously, we remember it and laugh about it, but I don't think it's really gone down as an all-time healish moment. Imagine if this was something that Andre the Giant did to Hulk Hogan in 87 or something like that. It would live on in infamy.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's a it's one of those things where like, you know, we have our you know, you have your Randy Orton to heal Randy Orton. I'll use it as an example. Like he did some crazy stuff as a hill, but he wasn't he wasn't he wasn't about that life. Like big boss man trumps everybody when it comes to being a hill. As far as I guess, how far are you going to go to, you know, play mind games with your opponent opponent?
00:34:50
Speaker
It boss man was just one of those dude. I remember that storyline were like was it else no like Did he have like? Posters and stuff like that. He was like, you know trying to find pepper cuz pep is missing. Yes. He was missing Yeah, that was like, yeah Yeah, man, uh, geez heart heartbreaking. Like I said rip pepper and uh, geez
00:35:12
Speaker
It was a, it did culminate though. They actually did end this, uh, this feud ended in a, uh, a dog kennel match, the kennel from hell match as it's called at unforgiven. Um, not a, not a good match at all. I'm deaf. I mean, if you want to go back and watch it just to be, um, you know, disgusted by it, you can. Um, but it was basically like a cage surrounding the ring.
00:35:39
Speaker
And then it was a second roofed cage surrounding the ring side. I think it was just Hell in the Cell. I think they put the Hell in the Cell around a traditional field cage. Yeah, it's pretty much.
00:35:48
Speaker
Yeah, it was it was it was there cuz how the cells already was how would a cell introduced already? Yeah Yeah, boss man had been in the hell in the cell. That's right. Yeah, so this was a combined they had the the the big black cage This is before they'd switch like the chain link steel cage inside It was just I want to say this was just where they had the big solid bars or was it the bar the the like the mesh fence style cage a picture real quick. Yeah, don't forget the
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah, they did, they did have a, it was like a cage within a cage, right? Sort of. Is that how? Well, I think it was, I think it was the actual hell in the cell on top of a steel cage. Let me put, let me look up the image real quick. Yeah. So they had, it was so, so still the blue cage, right? So this is still the blue cage. So you got the big blue cage, like from the eighties around the ring and then held in the cell was lowered down over the top of it. Yeah. And then you had the dogs surrounding it too, like the attack dogs.
00:36:45
Speaker
so they were supposed to be attacked. They were big rottweilers and stuff like the dogs look scary but these dogs I don't know if they were like slightly sedated to be better for TV or whatever like or to be safer but they were like not vicious at all do you like the dogs are just
00:37:02
Speaker
Chilling sitting around living their best life at ringside. I think one of them took a shit like in the middle of the match So you got some nice dog turds right? Yeah They were just you know The vision was that outside the cage you're gonna have this just pool of violent canines ready to rip the shreds anybody who gets thrown out but That just wasn't the case the dogs were kind of just scenery and we just had a match that was a pain in the ass to see what was going on She had two layers of cage to look through to see what was happening. I
00:37:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's just it's just bad too. I just like the they just like looking at it with the the hell in a cell cage and then the big blue cage. Like if if they did like another maybe mesh cage on the inside, it might have been.
00:37:45
Speaker
good, but, or just get rid of that cage altogether. Uh, the big blue cage, but yeah, it was, uh, it was not a good match. And I think, uh, generally King law, I think he did point out there in commentary that one of the dogs took a crap during the match. So that's how, that's how excited that dog was creativity. But when it got to the execution phase, it just, it didn't connect like, like you wanted it to.
00:38:11
Speaker
Yeah, it was like it's basically the whoever escaped both cages was a was the winner, but yeah I don't think they were you know
00:38:19
Speaker
Like you said, with those dogs in there, I don't think they were going to, you know, they weren't going to have vicious attack dogs because neither one of them had like, I think they both were wearing like kind of like sleeveless shirts. I think the gals was wearing like a denim vest and then boss man had his gear on. So like if the dogs were to jump out and attack, they're going to get balled dude. If they weren't real attack dogs, they didn't have like any protective gear or long sleeves that would indicate that the dogs would attack them at any point. So it was kind of a wash in that sense.
00:38:48
Speaker
But yeah, uh, boss man, just a quick recap, not a lover of, uh, animals or Al Snow. We'll say that much. Um, and so we'll move on to the, uh, I think another meat, another meat and potatoes type of deal.
Feud with Big Show
00:39:04
Speaker
Uh,
00:39:05
Speaker
with boss man. It has ever, and it has ever quest to be the most dastardly heel known to man. He feuds with the big show. But this was actually cool because it was for the, it was for the championship. Cause I think he was going for, did he ever go for the championship against Hogan or were they just feuding? Did he ever get a title shot? Do you remember? I can't remember if any of those matches were championship matches or just non-title matches with, you know, kind of exhibition matches for Hulk on Saturday night's main event.
00:39:35
Speaker
Yes, I think he was in line to be like that main heel to face Hogan at a mania or something like that, but I don't think it ever fell through. But nonetheless, he gets his chance in 99 against the big show. Man, what a way to end this show here.
00:40:01
Speaker
The Big Boss Man. This is actually really hard to go through, but we'll make it work. The Big Show's father passed away. Big Boss Man being who he is doesn't care, doesn't give a crap.
00:40:20
Speaker
So, you know, they're feuding, but, you know, during a feud and obviously at work, you want to take time off. You want to take some, you know, bereavement. You want to take some time to, you know, heal, especially during like a wake or a funeral. So, you know, Big Show, you know, decides to take some time off from the, you know, I can't do this feud anymore. You know, I got to, I got to be with my family. We got to have our funeral. I got to put my dad to rest. You know, he passed away.
00:40:44
Speaker
So cut cut to the cut to the cemetery big show his family, you know, they're around you know paying their respects to to pop a big show
00:40:58
Speaker
They get an unexpected guest to the to the funeral probably to get it invite Big boss man shows up to the funeral And a big shows father's funeral and it's like what the hell what the hell is he doing here? With a with a giant yes a gigantic mega horn on top of it and
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. And he hops out out of that car, proceeds to hook up Big Show's father's casket to the back of his vehicle, and drives off with Big Show's father's corpse.
00:41:46
Speaker
along with Big Show on top of the, you know, the casket, trying to stop, you know, uh, taking him away. Just like, man, just a sight. Another, just another memory etched in my mind from the attitude error. And you know, these memories are mainly the big boss man. All these, all these crazy things that he's doing. He was just like, like we said, he's, he was not a nice guy. He was definitely a heel. Um,
00:42:12
Speaker
What are your thoughts on this, Seth? What do you think of, you know, be the ultimate heel and just, you know, just take it away. I love what's already taken away, but now you're really taking away that loved one. What are your thoughts on this? Jeez. I went back and watched this segment a couple of times today because I was just really trying to sink in the total scene. Before I get to anything else, man, can you explain how Big Show shows up to his dad's funeral wearing leather pants? Like, who does that?
00:42:41
Speaker
He's wearing black leather pants. Yeah, leather pants and all.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yeah, man, this was a legit picture talked about this on the episode of I think they did a Big boss man episode of something to wrestle with I can't remember if it was encompassing his whole career just a second run But they did one and he talked about filming this segment in the cemetery They did get permission to do this and everything But they got a call the day after because I guess they were this they did this on a weekend So they were already people, you know, you know, that's when families typically go and visit their you know Their loved ones in the cemetery, you know, so you got people going to see, you know granny and pop pop
00:43:17
Speaker
Boomstone and then see in this scene film with you know They're just wrecking the ground as big shows, you know, basically surfing on this this casket getting drug out Bruce said they got a call the next day from the I don't know if it was the owner or the caretaker or whatever and said that they're never allowed to use that cemetery again for anything No, my god
00:43:41
Speaker
Oh, I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, that's obviously that was that was gonna happen. I mean, especially with a scene like that. Like you said, imagine if you're just there like visiting a loved one or even attending a funeral adjacent to this one happening. And you see some do just
00:43:58
Speaker
pull up on the grass and just pull someone's loved one out of the, yeah, that's crazy. What about one boss man? He said, you know, with the deepest regrets and tears that are soaked, I'm sorry to hear your dad finally croaked.
00:44:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He has a way with words. The big boss man. I mean, he gave his condolences, I guess, during that time. But but man, like I said, just just like we kind of said this already, like you probably won't be able to find that. I mean, they're probably going to scrub this at some point from the from Peacock. You won't be able to see this or any of the big boss man's dastardly deeds, as we like to say. But man, what a what a crazy
00:44:44
Speaker
Heel run if that was I'm trying to as going back and like like reading up on this and like watching stuff I'm trying to remember if there's any other heels around that time that were doing that was doing anything that like
00:44:57
Speaker
that crazy besides like the undertaker, you know, kidnapping Stephanie and all that stuff. But like this stuff is like kind of intrusive. The fact that the fact that the stuff with him and Al Snow and boss man happened in such a, such a tight timeline. Yeah. You never had somebody get this straight, like straight up personal, you know, everybody else has typically kept it confined to, you know, a sports competition inside that 20 by 20 squared circle. Whereas this boss man was just getting personal and getting evil.
00:45:25
Speaker
Yeah, he's just showing up at funerals. He was, uh, you know, kidnapping dogs and feeding them to people. He was, uh, you know, getting, I mean, he was getting, he got hung too. Um, I think they, what they should have done was that should have been the, that should have been his last match. That should have been like the, the match that ended the boss man run. Like,
00:45:46
Speaker
Like, you know, kind of kill off the character of all these, you know, crazy things he did, you know, you know, abusing nails back in the day, you know, breaking up the mega powers, you know, so on and so forth with pepper and, you know, big shows, dad, stuff like that. I think that would have been a good combination. I think they, you know, they ended their feud at Armageddon at the Armageddon pay-per-view. And obviously, you know, Big Boss Man lost and, you know,
00:46:15
Speaker
Big Show got his revenge. And that was really the last thing of significance he did. He kind of just slowly faded away after that point. Yeah, he kind of disappeared. I think he went to Japan for a little bit. And that was pretty much it after that. I think he
00:46:39
Speaker
He did something like, I think he went back to Georgia and he like ran for like, did like, like some like political seat or something like that too. Can you imagine how much stuff you get to use like in the smear ads and stuff? Yeah, I think it was, uh, let me look it up real quick because I had it. It was a 2004. Yeah. He ran for commission chairman for, uh, Paulding County, Georgia.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yeah, so he owned a storage company and stuff like that. Imagine him, he's running for a political seat in that county, and they just go, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Didn't you kidnap a dog and kill it and feed it to somebody? Didn't you pull a man's father's casket out of the ground?
00:47:26
Speaker
Yeah, didn't you, didn't you abuse a prisoner while you were a corrections officer in Cobb County? I don't think you're fit for this job. You don't serve the right traffic as a public servant at all.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty much it, man. I mean, that's pretty much the gist of the show, guys. It's just picking all the craziest things that the Heels have done. Not running through the whole career, but just kind of pinpointing the things that actually make them a Heel. And I'm not sure if we're going to be able to top this.
00:48:00
Speaker
With Bossman, I think we came out hot, man. Yeah. Especially for guys that were strictly in the mid-card, man. Bossman is going to be tough to beat with that one-two combo that he had on Al Snow and the big show. The Foley fam did come through with some good blister mail. Marco, you ready to start tackling these?
00:48:19
Speaker
Yeah, let's do it. All right, so a lot of these we kind of kind of answered throughout the course of show But I still want to do credit where credits do Zach Hertzler says this is kind of a two-for-one Zach Hertzler says honest thoughts about his hell in the cell match against taker at mania 15 and then Jordan, you know the fig God cast member of the the chick Foley show Jordan Wells says was the kennel from hell the best hell in the cell match ever and when should they do it again, so kind of
00:48:46
Speaker
Write us through the two, kind of give us your thoughts overall on the two, the two boss man cell matches. And then if you think there's an opportunity where we should see Kendall from hell again. Damn. Uh, I definitely have to pick one out of one out of the two. It's definitely undertake our boss man. Hell in a cell. I'm going to go with that as the, as a pick for, you know, if I'm going to have to pick a boss man, hell in a cell match. I'm going to go with that one.
00:49:11
Speaker
Um, definitely not the kennel from hell match. Um, it was, it could have been cool. It was, I just, it wasn't executed properly. That's that's, I think that's where, where it came down to. I think it could have been a cool concept. If it was in the era of the cinematic match, dude, if you could have got some trained dogs and Hollywood and stuff like it would have made for
00:49:33
Speaker
Obviously, in some ways, it was the dumbest idea ever. And then in other ways, it was maybe just 20 years ahead of its time because it would have been perfect for the pandemic cinematic era to do some stuff like that.
00:49:46
Speaker
Yeah, man. If they have some warehouse that they could have rented out and had the cage inside there somehow, and they could have actually had rabbit attack dogs chained to the walls or something like that. It could have been really cool if they had that cinematic. But years before, they did the Hollywood Backlot Brawl. Yeah, that was like the original cinematic.
00:50:13
Speaker
Yeah, so they could have done something like that, but maybe they just didn't really want to invest in the, uh, in, uh, Al Stillwood, big boss man. But yeah, that definitely could have, I think if it executed the right way, they can probably pull it off again. I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing it again to answer your question, Jordan. I'd watch a kennel from hell now. If they were doing a cinematic way, I would watch it.
00:50:34
Speaker
Thing is, man, animals in wrestling have kind of faded away, dude. There's not a whole lot of people that are still using the live animals, man. I think the last opportunity we would have had for a kennel from Hellmatch would have been that horrible Baron Corbin and Roman Reigns feud, like the last thing Roman did before becoming the head of the table. Tribal chief member Baron Corbin was like smearing dog food on his face and stuff. Maybe he could have done something with that to make the day.
00:50:59
Speaker
tie that into a kennel from Hellmash, but I don't really see a good, a nice organic way of getting to that particular gimmick nowadays. Yeah. Sam Bro, the MVP of the mailbag. Yeah, you can have him. Go ahead.
00:51:12
Speaker
I was gonna say you can have Cody's, you can bring Cody's dog back into the fold. That dog could be a part of some storylines, but I think PTSD for Cody's dog when those fireworks went off and kind of scared him. That was the last time we seen Cody.
00:51:31
Speaker
That dog, so sad. All right, so Sam Bro, the MVP of the mailbag said, you know, we already answered this one. He says, where would big boss man be without nails? He'd still be down in Cobb County, Georgia abusing prisoners, man. Thank God for nails for exposing this evil bastard.
00:51:46
Speaker
Yeah, Nails was the one that got the confidence enough to speak up and speak out about the boss man in his ways. I'm surprised other prisoners didn't pop up and tell their story about how abusive the boss man was when he was working at Cobb County. But yeah, like you said, hashtag justice for Nails.
00:52:09
Speaker
Alright, our main man over in the UK, Phil Dunn, it says, if the big boss man released a cookbook, would you try it or would you be worried about the beat content? I mean, I don't know if I'd try it. I'd be worried about what about you, Seth? What do you think?
00:52:28
Speaker
No, I'm probably not messing with me. The boss man doesn't really strike me as a, uh, you know, a gourmet or anything. So I'll probably pass. And I will say in the show notes, along with that watch list, I will find a really killer recipe for some pepper steak and throw that in the show notes. Also, if you want to have a little meal to a couple of podcasts, perfect. All right. Alex, you bank says, do you think a boss man world title run could have worked?
00:52:58
Speaker
I think so. I'm trying to think. I would probably go with the first.
00:53:06
Speaker
the first run to the WWF, if you, if you just have that like mega few with Hogan, like it, it wasn't like the mega powers and you know, tag team stuff. I think if it was like a one on one thing, I think you could add a pretty decent like heel run as a, you know, take the belt off a Hogan, maybe like one of the earlier paper views and then you'll come and come out of WrestleMania Hogan wins it back or something like that. Um, yeah, I think, I think he would add a pretty decent run as a heel. Um, not the attitude error, but definitely in the, uh,
00:53:35
Speaker
in the golden era without Hogan. I think it would probably would have worked. Yeah, I agree. I could see, like you said, I could see him having something like the akin to like Sergeant Slaughter's world championship run in 91, like win it in one pay per view and then lose it right back at the next event. Speaking of 91, man, he was as over as it gets as a babyface too. I feel like that's probably when he was, even though I preferred him as a heel, that's probably when he was at his biggest in 91 as a babyface.
00:53:59
Speaker
He had a couple guys, you know, you still have warrior and Hogan kind of hanging around ahead of him. And then Brett was ascending at that time that where he was never quite at the tippy top of the roster for baby faces. But he was he was like straight up over as a face at 91. So you could have done. You could have elevated him a little bit then also. Alex also says a side note that Blue Cage match from Saturday Night's Main Event that we talked about is so underrated. So, yeah, I think if you were going to watch one boss man match after this, go watch Saturday Night's Main Event and get Hulk Hogan and we'll make sure to have all the details in the show notes.
00:54:31
Speaker
It's really good. All right, Tony Barker says, which do you prefer, boss man in the original cop uniform or the SWAT gear? Man.
00:54:44
Speaker
I'm gonna go with the original copy uniform for me. It's just, it's too nostalgic for me. Just being a kid and, you know, seeing it just, I just had that blue shirt just like pops out. You know, the all black hair is cool, but big boss man in the olden days is where I'm at. In his scene music was boss. It was killer.
00:55:06
Speaker
Yeah, agree. The Swandir was cool, but the copy informer is just so toyetic and that's obviously what I think about it. If I hear big boss man, I'm thinking cop big boss man before I get to the corporate security guard. Tony also said we can already get to the-
00:55:26
Speaker
I was going to say, well, ignore the patch that was on his sleeve at the time. Still present on the wrestling buddy. I think the Hasbro had it off, but I think the wrestling buddy had it on their man. So yeah, it's probably one of the last few times you're going to see the old Confederate flag on a toy.
00:55:45
Speaker
All right. Tony also had a couple of questions we already got to you. He said, where would you rank boss man as far as most agile big man of all time? We discussed that. And what did you think of boss man's? Debussy Debbie run. So thanks Tony for hitting us with a combo platter. Um, we'll try to take a look at these questions ahead of time next time and maybe leave some of these, uh, ants to be answered in the listener mail section, but appreciate you guys reaching out. All right. Two more questions. May man TNT Tyson, Neil Trevino says, did you ever take a trip down to Cobb County, Georgia?
00:56:14
Speaker
I did not. I said this at the beginning of the show. I was frightened of the big boss man as a hill, so I was definitely not willing to go down there and try my luck at running into the big boss man down there, so no. Have you? I have not, but if I did, I would make sure I read the signs and respect the law and order because I wouldn't want to be serving a hard time. Exactly.
00:56:40
Speaker
All right, last question. I think probably the ultimate question of this first episode. So thanks to J-Bone from our Pod Foundation brethren coming down the aisle for hitting us with this one. And I'm gonna leave it to you to answer, Margot. Big boss man. Was he a better face or heel?
00:56:57
Speaker
Of course, Hail, dude. He was always a Hail, as we discovered. He had a nice little fake run as a face and got over on the fans. And I think soon enough, if they let it go past, he was just going to turn his back on the fans at some point and say, hey, I let you guys like me for this long, blah, blah, blah. If they let it go past, but it didn't get to that point. But yeah, no, definitely Hail.
00:57:25
Speaker
He'll boss man is where it's at, dude. As he, as you can see, I mean, he's had some memorable moments, you know, as a face, but as a hill, way more memorable moments in my eyes anyway. All right. Yeah. I agree. A hundred percent man, dude was always a heel. That face run was just phony baloney. Uh, that's it for our first mailbag Marco. So I think, you know, first episode, the pilot episode of what the heels in the can, I think maybe hit us with some, uh, some closing thoughts and we'll get out of here.
00:57:54
Speaker
Um, yeah, let's, um, let's all abide by the law and try not to serve hard times.
00:58:23
Speaker
Marching for a human serving hard time.