Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
17 A.B. Kyazze | Mystery Thriller Author
210 Plays4 years ago
Thriller/Mystery author, photographer and humanitarian, Amelia Kyazze talks about her adventures as a photographer and how travelling around the world through warzones and natural disasters, inspired many of the scenes in her debut novel, Into the Mouth of the Lion as well as the ideas she has for future books. We also learn all about her experience of crowdfunding a novel with Unbound.
Signing up to the Patreon will give you access to the Discord server, where you'll be able to interact directly with Jamie as well as many of the previous agents, authors and editors who have been on the show. You'll also be able to see who the upcoming guests are and put forward questions for Jamie to ask them.
Get a whole month with WriteMentor's Hub for free using the coupon code 'Write&Wrong'.
The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes
Jamie, Melissa and Noami talk about the best and the worst writing tropes!
Click here to find all of our guests' books as well as the desert island library over at bookshop.org.
Click on this referral link to get 30% off your first three months with Zencastr.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
So our podcast is called Right and Wrong.
00:00:02
Speaker
Are these your notes?
00:00:03
Speaker
These are your notes about what we're going to say.
00:00:06
Speaker
What does it say?
00:00:06
Speaker
I thought it would be a good... I didn't even get the idea.
00:00:12
Speaker
Maybe I can just ask you the question.
00:00:16
Speaker
It's going well.
00:00:16
Speaker
It's going really well.
00:00:17
Speaker
Whenever... Yeah, it's me.
00:00:19
Speaker
I'm starting.
00:00:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:25
Speaker
whenever you want no it's me okay hi and welcome back to the right and wrong podcast i'm jamie and i'm emma and today we're joined by author photographer editor and humanitarian amelia chazane hello thanks for joining us amelia hi thanks for having me
00:00:46
Speaker
Oh, well, you're welcome.
00:00:47
Speaker
Welcome to the show.
Book Pitch: 'Into the Mouth of the Lion'
00:00:48
Speaker
Really great to have you on.
00:00:51
Speaker
To kick things off, we often like to do this with our guests.
00:00:54
Speaker
Could you, for us and the listeners, give a little kind of pitch blurb of what your new book, Into the Mouth of the Lion, is all about?
00:01:06
Speaker
Sure.
00:01:06
Speaker
Into the Mouth of the Lion is the story of a young photographer who flies into the last days of Angola's civil war
00:01:14
Speaker
to try to find her missing sister.
00:01:18
Speaker
Wow, that was so succinct.
00:01:19
Speaker
Most people are like, I've really not practiced my pitch.
00:01:22
Speaker
I'm just going to nail that.
00:01:28
Speaker
I could go into more detail, but sometimes people just want to hear the first, you know, the first line to see if they're interested, you know?
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm interested.
00:01:35
Speaker
Sounds great.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:01:37
Speaker
What's your inspiration behind the story or for the story?
Inspiration and Experiences in Angola
00:01:42
Speaker
Well, I was a young photographer flying into the end of Angola's Civil War.
00:01:48
Speaker
I didn't have much background.
00:01:51
Speaker
In my 20s, I worked for refugee organizations and humanitarian organizations, and I was willing to go anywhere.
00:01:57
Speaker
So I had been to Eastern Congo and Southern Africa, but then I flew into Angola without much of an understanding of the whole situation.
00:02:09
Speaker
And so
00:02:10
Speaker
And there was a plane ride, a very eventful plane ride, which I describe.
00:02:16
Speaker
It actually has become chapter two of the book.
00:02:18
Speaker
It started out as a short story, but just briefly, the way Angola's war worked is that the government sort of secured towns, but the rebels sort of had control or threatened vast areas around the town.
00:02:35
Speaker
So planes had to stay very high.
00:02:38
Speaker
but the planes that were bringing humanitarian aid and humanitarian workers and people like me, I was more of a kind of reporter going in there to sort of find out what the story was, write it down, take testimonies, take photographs, and then bring the story out.
00:02:53
Speaker
This was before there was social media.
00:02:54
Speaker
This was before people had mobile phones where they could take videos.
00:02:58
Speaker
So it really was important to get the story out, but the planes couldn't descend in a normal way.
00:03:03
Speaker
They had to stay very high.
00:03:04
Speaker
And then they set, they circle in,
00:03:07
Speaker
in this sort of kamikaze spiral.
00:03:10
Speaker
And if you're not expecting it, it does really feel like a near-death experience.
00:03:14
Speaker
But you get through it and you get off the plane and you realize that this is normal.
00:03:19
Speaker
This is normal for everyone who worked in Angola, who has to travel in Angola.
00:03:23
Speaker
And so your brain has to adjust to this new normal.
00:03:27
Speaker
And so that was the inspiration behind the kind of
00:03:31
Speaker
I need to write this down, I need to interpret it.
00:03:33
Speaker
And then many years later, I started going back to my notes and my photographs and started turning it into something more creative.
00:03:40
Speaker
So the book is based on some of my experiences and many of the people I knew and interviewed, but it's not history.
00:03:49
Speaker
It's definitely a novel.
00:03:50
Speaker
It's definitely sort of plot driven.
00:03:52
Speaker
And I hope readers sort of really get carried along with the story, but it's woven in there are my experiences.
00:03:59
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:04:00
Speaker
I mean, it sounds like you've had a really full traveling life.
00:04:06
Speaker
Definitely.
00:04:08
Speaker
It sounds like you've been to some incredible places and met a lot of different people, which is amazing.
00:04:14
Speaker
And obviously, it's inspired this book as well.
Influence of Early Travels
00:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, well, in my 20s, I kind of said yes to everything.
00:04:21
Speaker
I mean, you might be able to tell from my accent.
00:04:23
Speaker
I grew up in the Midwest of the United States, and I didn't actually travel much.
00:04:27
Speaker
as a child or teenager.
00:04:29
Speaker
And then when I got the chance around the age of 19, I had the chance to go to Nepal for six months and I had a sort of scholarship or a fellowship to take photographs.
00:04:39
Speaker
And I met with a range of people and I interviewed a lot of refugees, Tibetan refugees at that time.
00:04:45
Speaker
And it really sort of sparked off in me this idea of working with refugees, but also trying to capture people's stories, trying to tell people's stories.
00:04:55
Speaker
And then I just said yes to everything.
00:04:56
Speaker
From then I traveled from all my 20s.
00:05:00
Speaker
I went to, I think, about 40 different countries for work or for travel.
00:05:06
Speaker
But yeah, in the Balkans, I just started out.
00:05:09
Speaker
Actually, my first trip after Nepal was to Kosovo at the beginning of the Kosovo War, taking testimonies from people displaced from there.
00:05:16
Speaker
So trying to make sense of the Balkans, which is such a deep historical story.
00:05:23
Speaker
layers of conflict.
00:05:24
Speaker
But then I started work for Oxfam and I did, yeah, I traveled to Congo, I traveled to Malawi, also covering natural disasters, so food crises as well as conflicts, Indonesia, Bangladesh, so yeah, a huge range of places.
00:05:41
Speaker
And then with other organizations, I worked in Darfur, which was pretty intense in Sudan, and went back to Congo.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, so a lot of different places that have now been woven into my creative writing.
00:05:54
Speaker
And also, I had such amazing experiences as a photographer.
00:05:59
Speaker
You know, places that I would never, never have the chance to see and, you know, stories I would never have the chance to hear.
00:06:05
Speaker
So I feel really lucky.
00:06:07
Speaker
Wow.
00:06:07
Speaker
Yeah, incredibly lucky.
00:06:09
Speaker
I think, would you say as well that it was born from like a journalistic point of view then?
00:06:13
Speaker
So you wanted to obviously tell other people's stories in a way?
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, what I...
00:06:19
Speaker
When I was leaving university, I was part of a creative writing group and we were sort of divided, but I really wanted to live an interesting life and write about it, which is sort of what I've been trying to do.
00:06:31
Speaker
I'm not done living, by the way.
00:06:32
Speaker
I'm not that old.
00:06:35
Speaker
Not at all.
00:06:36
Speaker
Not at all.
00:06:37
Speaker
But I think because my first jobs were with a refugee advocacy organization and advocacy in this sense means, you know, trying to get people's stories out, trying to speak on their behalf.
00:06:49
Speaker
testimony, a real kind of idea of bearing witness.
00:06:52
Speaker
And as I say, these were places, some of them that journalists weren't allowed to go, that you couldn't get insurance to go there.
00:07:00
Speaker
But for some reason, I said yes.
00:07:02
Speaker
He said yes to everything.
00:07:05
Speaker
So it was really, yeah, with this, I mean, it was also in the, I mean, I first started traveling in 99.
00:07:11
Speaker
And so Rwanda's genocide was 94.
00:07:14
Speaker
And so the aid industry was still sort of
00:07:18
Speaker
racked with guilt about that, about, you know, why didn't we know?
00:07:21
Speaker
Why didn't the stories get out?
00:07:23
Speaker
And so we were trying to sort of say never again would these stories be buried.
00:07:29
Speaker
But yeah, and it's this sort of impulse to try to help in a complicated world and try to understand.
00:07:36
Speaker
I was very interested also in like the politics of conflict and peace building and sort of try to understand how to help as an outsider.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:07:46
Speaker
Well, I would say you have, it sounds like you've definitely succeeded in living an adventurous and interesting life.
00:07:52
Speaker
Definitely.
00:07:53
Speaker
So congratulations on that.
00:07:55
Speaker
Oh, thank you.
00:07:55
Speaker
And going back to, you said when you were at college, you were in creative writing groups.
00:08:00
Speaker
So you've been writing for quite a long time, presumably.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:04
Speaker
I mean, I even was writing short stories at the age of 10 and acting them out with my friends on, you know, improvised little stages.
00:08:12
Speaker
But yeah.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, but I never was thinking that it was the only thing I was going to do.
00:08:19
Speaker
My mom says I'm a glutton at Life's Feast.
00:08:22
Speaker
I do have a lot of interests.
00:08:25
Speaker
And I think, actually, I studied anthropology.
00:08:28
Speaker
And so I was really interested in the world and in people.
00:08:32
Speaker
I wasn't only interested in kind of one narrow strip of sort of learning.
00:08:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
Well, I'm interested if we can...
00:08:42
Speaker
reel it back from all your adventure for a second and talk about the adventure of publishing.
00:08:46
Speaker
Just a second though.
00:08:49
Speaker
I'm really interested to know, because you're going through Unbound, which is the crowdfunding publisher.
00:08:59
Speaker
How was that as a process for you?
00:09:03
Speaker
What was the initial process in that?
Publishing Journey with Unbound
00:09:06
Speaker
We've spoken to a couple of people who've gone through
00:09:09
Speaker
um that company uh is it similar to submitting to agents and publishers yeah I mean for me it was all part of the same process so I um okay uh I mean once I decided that I was going to really push to write a novel I I did evening classes um juggling that with um my freelance consulting job and
00:09:31
Speaker
raising two kids with, with a lovely partner, but it was a very intense time, but the evening classes were really focused on finishing the novel and finishing a full, full draft.
00:09:41
Speaker
And then I also found it took about another year of edits and feedback on that full draft till it was something I was really proud of to send out.
00:09:48
Speaker
And, you know, I was encouraged.
00:09:50
Speaker
I was, I was long listed for the women's first novel prize with, uh, Miss Lexia.
00:09:54
Speaker
And I, I actually had a lot of encouragement.
00:09:57
Speaker
Uh, so I sent out this, this novel, but, um,
00:10:03
Speaker
I had, you know, lots of agents were interested and even some other independent publishers were interested.
00:10:08
Speaker
I actually got 10 requests for full manuscript, which I think is pretty unusual.
00:10:16
Speaker
But I mean, I don't mind sharing with you and your listeners.
00:10:18
Speaker
I mean, they all came back at the end and said no.
00:10:21
Speaker
I have an Excel sheet of actually, I think it's 48 rejections for this book.
00:10:28
Speaker
But some of them were very kind, you know, some of them were saying, I love this book, but how am I going to sell it?
00:10:35
Speaker
I remember that one from a pretty high level agent.
00:10:38
Speaker
And I sort of thought, well, that's funny.
00:10:40
Speaker
I thought that was, that was your job.
00:10:44
Speaker
I thought that I would write a book that people would love.
00:10:46
Speaker
And then, um,
00:10:48
Speaker
but I think the book does sort of cross genres.
00:10:51
Speaker
It doesn't, it doesn't easily fit.
00:10:53
Speaker
It's not exactly a thriller, even though it's very fast paced, it's got a very strong plot, but it's, it's more of a mystery.
00:10:59
Speaker
I would say it's also a lot about the characters involved.
00:11:02
Speaker
It's a family story about this woman looking for her sister and they actually don't really know each other very well.
00:11:09
Speaker
And there's things about her sister's life.
00:11:11
Speaker
She, she learns as she goes.
00:11:12
Speaker
It's also, I mean, I didn't,
00:11:15
Speaker
put this all in my one sentence summary, but it is a story about family and our obligations to each other and what happens when someone really kind of disappears from your life.
00:11:24
Speaker
It's also a love story.
00:11:25
Speaker
There's different love stories in there from the parents in 1960s Lisbon to London, as well as in Angola.
00:11:34
Speaker
It's kind of a cross-cultural love story.
00:11:36
Speaker
There's people from many different backgrounds all working together in this intense situation and the intense
00:11:42
Speaker
relationships that come from that but um right sorry back to your question um so the book is is really cross genre and there's a lot that people like in it but I think I I found publishing to be kind of closed to things that are a little uh yeah that don't quite fit in the small boxes place yeah that doesn't have a place immediately in the market like it doesn't fit on a shelf with other things yeah I mean I think it does but it doesn't it's not a
00:12:09
Speaker
something they can, you know, click a box to say, yes, this is crime.
00:12:12
Speaker
We're going to market it as crime.
00:12:13
Speaker
We're going to do this, this, this.
00:12:15
Speaker
But the, the good side of the story is that I went to a lot of events.
00:12:19
Speaker
I went to some really interesting ones.
00:12:22
Speaker
Bite the book is a really interesting network that brings together kind of technology and,
00:12:26
Speaker
storytelling, and they have an annual conference with Google.
00:12:30
Speaker
And people from all over the country, even all over the world, come to these conferences.
00:12:35
Speaker
And there I met my editor at Unbound.
00:12:37
Speaker
And, you know, I did a bit more research.
00:12:40
Speaker
And I just found that on the tech side and on the digital side, and also, yeah, looking at unusual routes to storytelling, I was really impressed.
00:12:50
Speaker
And if you know Unbound, you know that they do publish things that sometimes can't find
00:12:55
Speaker
an easy home in mainstream publishing like Nikesh Shukla's.
00:12:59
Speaker
He edited the edition called The Good Immigrant, which was the first time that stories of immigration in the UK today is being talked about.
00:13:08
Speaker
And none of the mainstream publishers would take that, but Unbounded, and now it's been published and it's a bestseller in lots of different countries.
00:13:15
Speaker
And, you know, they're doing a US edition and Kit DeWall this year published Common People, which is an anthology of working class writers.
00:13:22
Speaker
And again,
00:13:24
Speaker
like some publishers were sort of thinking about it but actually Unbound are the ones who backed it so I was really proud to go with Unbound.
00:13:30
Speaker
It's brilliant yeah and so important that that is published as well so yeah I mean you you do feel like publishing can be a bit closed and then these these moments of breakthrough happen so but Unbound is crowd publishing you do you do commit to crowdfunding as an author that can be kind of daunting but actually I
00:13:52
Speaker
I looked at it really, really clearly.
00:13:54
Speaker
And I recognized that I had friends and family and colleagues all over the world.
00:14:00
Speaker
And I know a lot of people who love books.
00:14:02
Speaker
And so I just worked out a strategy
Crowdfunding Success and Rewards
00:14:05
Speaker
and reached out to them.
00:14:06
Speaker
And we made a video.
00:14:09
Speaker
People were, this was sort of amazing.
00:14:11
Speaker
People just all over the world said, yes, we'll support you.
00:14:14
Speaker
We'll back you.
00:14:16
Speaker
They only got to read about one chapter, I think.
00:14:18
Speaker
And they said, we believe in you.
00:14:19
Speaker
We believe in this writing.
00:14:20
Speaker
We want it to come.
00:14:22
Speaker
we want it to come to be published.
00:14:23
Speaker
So actually crowdfunded pretty fast.
00:14:27
Speaker
I think it was about seven or eight weeks.
00:14:30
Speaker
And that's quick.
00:14:32
Speaker
And it was really moving.
00:14:34
Speaker
You know, I had, you know, messages from as far away as, you know, colleagues of mine working for the UN now in East Timor and in Myanmar and, you know, people I went to high school with from Kansas and friends of the family in Germany and South Africa and,
00:14:50
Speaker
And all these people came through with messages and what they could contribute.
00:14:54
Speaker
And if they couldn't contribute money, you know, everyone's in a different place.
00:14:57
Speaker
That's fine.
00:14:58
Speaker
They help spread the word.
00:14:59
Speaker
Or they just sent me an encouraging message, you know, on a day when I was really like, oh, I don't know if this is going to work.
00:15:05
Speaker
Sometimes that's all you need when you're writing.
00:15:07
Speaker
And like just someone to send you a message being like, this is really great.
00:15:11
Speaker
Keep going.
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:15:12
Speaker
It sounds really inspiring, like a really inspiring route to,
00:15:16
Speaker
to go down from the other people that we've spoke to as well with unbound it just sounds a really um you know it's it i guess it's a mixed bag because it is a different route to go down and you have got to do a lot of work and i guess those crowdfunding aspects of it would you like how did you find the the pledges and would you do it again i know you obviously got a lot of response but was it something that you would go down the same route again with um
00:15:41
Speaker
Well, I think for me, I was in a good place because I'm also a photographer.
00:15:45
Speaker
And I think some of the other people on Unbound, authors on Unbound who are artists also find this.
00:15:50
Speaker
So for the higher pledges, I could also say, you know, pledge for a photograph, pledge for five photographs.
00:15:56
Speaker
And those people, you know, if they had the means, they were really happy to do that.
00:16:01
Speaker
And they get a, you know, hand printed photograph of mine from Angola or from other parts of Africa.
00:16:07
Speaker
And they were about,
00:16:09
Speaker
16 people who did that in the end.
00:16:10
Speaker
And some of them I know, most of them I know, not everyone, but I could also handpick the photograph for them.
00:16:15
Speaker
So that was really, really meaningful.
00:16:18
Speaker
And that helps with crowdfunding.
00:16:19
Speaker
So I think if anyone's doing it, it is easier if you have some items that are kind of higher value that you can offer.
00:16:26
Speaker
I mean, other people have sort of pulled together experiences, although with COVID that's been difficult to deliver on, but I think people are understanding.
00:16:34
Speaker
But yeah, some kind of experience is linked to your book.
00:16:37
Speaker
I didn't do that.
00:16:38
Speaker
I did more of the photography.
00:16:39
Speaker
Oh, and I also offered photography classes.
00:16:41
Speaker
So I'm going to run a couple of those over Zoom and creative writing classes.
00:16:46
Speaker
Because in pre-COVID, I started running creative writing classes in libraries and schools in Southeast London where I live.
00:16:54
Speaker
And I definitely want to pick that up again as soon as COVID regulations allow.
00:16:58
Speaker
Because that's your writing, the seven senses, isn't it?
00:17:02
Speaker
That's what it's called, your creative writing.
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's sort of...
00:17:06
Speaker
how I, I told you I did some weekend creative writing classes before I dived into doing the evening MA.
00:17:14
Speaker
And that's sort of when I started to wake up and find the joy again of creative writing.
00:17:18
Speaker
And also I should say like the energy of creative writing.
00:17:21
Speaker
I find creative work really gives me energy.
00:17:24
Speaker
And after about 18 years of flying it out of other people's conflicts and natural disasters, and even just
00:17:31
Speaker
other work that was around the humanitarian industry, I was really burned out and I needed to look at kind of how to get my own energy back and how to get my own creativity flowing again.
00:17:40
Speaker
So I explored, and then I've also worked on a lot of small, uh, creative writing exercises that are just really fun.
00:17:48
Speaker
And I pulled those together in this course called writing the seven senses, um, that I can do it with kids from the age of eight to 11 or teenagers or, um,
00:17:58
Speaker
with seniors groups.
00:17:59
Speaker
I'm speaking at a seniors group later this spring.
00:18:04
Speaker
And it's just about having fun with writing, expressing yourself, also building confidence, but making it not daunting.
00:18:12
Speaker
It's not about grammar.
00:18:13
Speaker
It's not about spelling.
00:18:15
Speaker
It's about creative flow.
00:18:16
Speaker
And it's about laughing.
00:18:17
Speaker
It's about sort of really enjoying it.
00:18:19
Speaker
That's brilliant.
00:18:21
Speaker
Can I go on, please?
00:18:22
Speaker
Can I get part of your?
00:18:26
Speaker
Sure.
00:18:26
Speaker
I mean, stay in touch.
00:18:28
Speaker
And for anyone who, I mean, we'll get to this at the end, but if you want to stay in touch and get on my newsletter list, I promise I won't send it out too often, but I will sort of send out notices of kind of future classes.
00:18:40
Speaker
And I think some will be online and some will be in person.
00:18:43
Speaker
So we could kind of reach people wherever they are.
00:18:46
Speaker
Definitely.
00:18:46
Speaker
Sounds so fun.
00:18:47
Speaker
That's brilliant.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's great.
00:18:49
Speaker
I'm guessing, Amelia, now you don't travel as much as in your youth.
00:18:55
Speaker
No, I can't.
00:18:56
Speaker
But you worked for Oxfam.
00:18:59
Speaker
You've worked for the Red Cross.
00:19:00
Speaker
You've obviously got like a passion for helping people and change.
00:19:06
Speaker
Do you feel like since you've stopped traveling so much, you've kind of translated that passion into your writing and your kind of workshops and things?
Career Shift to Writing and Teaching
00:19:16
Speaker
I hope so.
00:19:16
Speaker
I mean, I still call myself a humanitarian.
00:19:19
Speaker
I still raise money when I can, but I think, and it's been a process, but I think I've sort of pulled myself out of working at the center of some of these organizations.
00:19:31
Speaker
Cause I still really love and respect them and it saved the children I worked for for a long time as well.
00:19:38
Speaker
But it's different to be an employee.
00:19:40
Speaker
And I was a spokesperson.
00:19:41
Speaker
I saved the children.
00:19:42
Speaker
I was actually on television,
00:19:44
Speaker
a lot, you know, to Al Jazeera and CNN and for these controversial topics.
00:19:48
Speaker
And I, I found that actually quite nerve wracking, but I did do it for a number of years, but, um, I think I had to sort of start to reclaim my own voice and my own focus.
00:19:59
Speaker
Um, and also, yeah, not to sound too boring, but yeah, life does progress and I have young kids who are getting a little bit older and, um, I can't, I can't be hopping on those planes.
00:20:09
Speaker
I used to do, I mean, uh,
00:20:10
Speaker
Literally a plane I was waiting for.
00:20:13
Speaker
I was in Eastern Congo waiting for a plane to pick us up.
00:20:17
Speaker
And that plane crashed.
00:20:20
Speaker
It was a small plane and the people on board were okay.
00:20:23
Speaker
There were some broken limbs, but it was a really bad situation.
00:20:27
Speaker
And I didn't actually know when the next plane was going to come.
00:20:32
Speaker
And my husband now, he forgives me, but I did actually do something which is totally unfathomable.
00:20:38
Speaker
unforgivable.
00:20:39
Speaker
And if anyone listening ever is tempted to do this, I called him on a mobile phone and he didn't pick up and I left a message and the message got garbled and it was something, he heard something like blah, blah, blah, plane crash, blah, blah, blah.
00:20:53
Speaker
And then he couldn't reach me for a couple of days because the mobile phone coverage.
00:20:58
Speaker
So never do that to anyone that you love.
00:21:01
Speaker
Just never do that.
00:21:03
Speaker
But so, yeah, obviously I can't do that.
00:21:05
Speaker
I can't do that with, with children and with people relying on me.
00:21:08
Speaker
And also I,
00:21:09
Speaker
I'm not the person to do that anymore.
00:21:11
Speaker
I'm in my 40s.
00:21:13
Speaker
And for better or for worse, in my 20s, I said yes, because I was really interested in the world.
00:21:18
Speaker
I was really interested in, as you say, trying to help.
00:21:20
Speaker
But, you know, I'm not a doctor.
00:21:24
Speaker
I'm not a water engineer.
00:21:26
Speaker
I mean, those are the people who are actually saving lives, are these nurses, the midwives, the people who go into these areas with those skills.
00:21:33
Speaker
I'm not.
00:21:34
Speaker
I'm a writer.
00:21:34
Speaker
And hopefully I'm a good listener.
00:21:38
Speaker
And...
00:21:39
Speaker
So I was trying to help with the skills that I have.
00:21:42
Speaker
And I think I feel good about that.
00:21:44
Speaker
And I'm still very connected with a lot of people who work for these organizations.
00:21:48
Speaker
And I may try to serve on a board or something in the future.
00:21:51
Speaker
But I may also leave that place for someone else who has that kind of energy.
00:21:55
Speaker
Whereas my energy is sort of taking me a little bit more in the kind of smaller groups, leading classes that end up expressing themselves, feeling confident and happy when they walk out.
00:22:07
Speaker
Maybe that's how I'm going to help people.
00:22:10
Speaker
in the future.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:12
Speaker
And I think it's very much, I mean, to your point, I think it's, it's less about age.
00:22:17
Speaker
And like you said, I completely agree more about circumstance and what you're, what you're choosing to do with your life now.
00:22:23
Speaker
And, and, and that's why you're not wanting to get on
00:22:26
Speaker
planes trains and automobiles every five seconds um but yeah it seems like you're now like as as um jamie said like translating those messages have changed through your stories which is wonderful and you know it's it doesn't it doesn't mean that you have to be a doctor or a
00:22:44
Speaker
you know, like that, the story is sometimes what people need to hear, um, and, and definitely share as well.
00:22:50
Speaker
So that's great.
00:22:51
Speaker
And, and speaking of obviously more of your stories, you, um, I read your short story, COVID in Brixton, um, which was great by the way.
00:23:01
Speaker
Um, so as someone who, you know, writes both short and long form stories, what are your favorite difference differences do you think between the two?
00:23:11
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that's a good question.
00:23:13
Speaker
I mean, for me, some of my short stories come out of these short, fun and creative writing exercises, which is why I think I've been focusing on flash
Writing Styles and Challenges
00:23:22
Speaker
fiction.
00:23:22
Speaker
Because flash fiction is a really fun genre and you get to the kind of core of it very quickly.
00:23:29
Speaker
And you can be lighthearted about it in the way that novel writing for me, I mean, novel writing I love.
00:23:36
Speaker
But it's a long project.
00:23:37
Speaker
It's a long commitment.
00:23:40
Speaker
And for me, it's a sprint.
00:23:42
Speaker
I actually write very fast.
00:23:43
Speaker
And then I need to kind of fill in gaps later when people, early readers say, oh, I wanted more of this.
00:23:48
Speaker
Or I didn't quite understand why she did that.
00:23:51
Speaker
And I see, oh, I need to paint a kind of better psychological picture for that character.
00:23:55
Speaker
But flash fiction and short stories, you can do it.
00:23:59
Speaker
You can do it in one sitting.
00:24:00
Speaker
You can come back to it if you like.
00:24:01
Speaker
It's more of a
00:24:03
Speaker
it's more of a kind of lighthearted exercise.
00:24:05
Speaker
And then, yeah, seeing if, if people are interested, people are, want to publish it, but it's not, it's not so much the, you know, heavy rejection.
00:24:13
Speaker
If, if your flash fiction story gets rejected, it's,
00:24:15
Speaker
it's fine.
00:24:16
Speaker
Whereas if your novel gets rejected for the 48th time, you are a bit, you know, your heart is a bit heavy.
00:24:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:22
Speaker
You didn't write that in one afternoon.
00:24:24
Speaker
No, exactly.
00:24:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:24:27
Speaker
I mean, I've, I've kept writing.
00:24:29
Speaker
Actually, I've, I've, I've got a sequel to Into the Mouth of the Lion.
00:24:32
Speaker
I don't want to say too much because it builds on the end of the story of Into the Mouth of the Lion, but that's set in, in Darfur in Sudan and Paris actually.
00:24:41
Speaker
And I'm trying to find a publisher for that.
00:24:43
Speaker
And then I also,
00:24:44
Speaker
have written another book set in London and another idea of a book set in Boston and another book possibly set in the Balkans where I started work.
00:24:52
Speaker
So my creativity is flowing.
00:24:56
Speaker
Sometimes it's too much and I should focus on one book at a time, but life sometimes doesn't let you do that when publishing, everything got so delayed with COVID.
00:25:05
Speaker
Actually, Into the Mouth of the Lion was supposed to be published in May, 2020.
00:25:08
Speaker
And it's coming out in May, 2021.
00:25:13
Speaker
which is fine.
00:25:13
Speaker
At least it's coming out and people are being so positive.
00:25:16
Speaker
And I got the shipment just on Saturday and I have the book in my hands now.
00:25:21
Speaker
And it's so wonderful to hold your first novel in your hands.
00:25:25
Speaker
I bet.
00:25:28
Speaker
But I still, I've got a lot more stories to tell.
00:25:30
Speaker
I'm not going to stop with just one.
00:25:32
Speaker
Well, that's very exciting.
00:25:33
Speaker
And, you know, after all of like the experiences you've had, what advice do you think you'd give to would-be writers or travelers alike wanting to tackle this industry?
Advice for Aspiring Writers
00:25:51
Speaker
Well, gosh, this industry is hard to figure out.
00:25:54
Speaker
I mean, I would say, first of all, and it sounds very basic, but if you want to be a writer, then write.
00:26:02
Speaker
Right.
00:26:02
Speaker
You get into a pattern that works for you.
00:26:04
Speaker
It doesn't have to be early mornings every day.
00:26:07
Speaker
But you do need to write and you do need to accept that the writing is not going to be the perfect the first time.
00:26:13
Speaker
And don't dwell on social media and looking at everybody else who's a debut author before you and who's, you know, 20 years younger than you.
00:26:20
Speaker
But just write.
00:26:22
Speaker
And I think also find that it is important to find a community of writers in some way.
00:26:29
Speaker
you know, either through a weekend class like I did, or I also found a local group now near where I live through Meetup.
00:26:38
Speaker
And we used to meet every fortnight in person in Greenwich, but now it's virtual.
00:26:44
Speaker
But actually, and we're really different writers.
00:26:46
Speaker
We don't try to be the same.
00:26:48
Speaker
There's sci-fi on there.
00:26:49
Speaker
There's Afro-futurism.
00:26:51
Speaker
There's Victorian, Gothic.
00:26:53
Speaker
But we all get to know each other pretty well.
00:26:56
Speaker
And they give me some really good
00:26:58
Speaker
feedback and by good feedback, I don't mean, Oh, it's wonderful.
00:27:01
Speaker
I mean, really useful feedback.
00:27:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker
There's one on the one woman on there who always wants it shorter.
00:27:09
Speaker
And there's one person who always wants it longer, but, um, yeah.
00:27:14
Speaker
And also I think it's, it's great to get feedback because you also, you, you understand, you feel your own feelings.
00:27:22
Speaker
If someone says cut this character,
00:27:24
Speaker
And you think, yeah, okay, I could cut that character.
00:27:26
Speaker
But if they say, you know, cut the mother, she's not important.
00:27:28
Speaker
And actually your heart says, wait a minute, the mother is absolutely key to the whole story.
00:27:32
Speaker
Then you, it triggers in you this kind of strong reaction.
00:27:37
Speaker
So, you know, you have to go back and build up that character, make her convincing, make her interesting for the reader, make her indispensable.
00:27:47
Speaker
And so it doesn't mean you take everybody's feedback, but you, your work gets stronger because of it.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah, you don't have to necessarily accept the prescribed feedback, but you can learn something, as you just said.
00:27:58
Speaker
So it's like, okay, that character is integral, but they don't like it.
00:28:02
Speaker
So what do I need to do to make that character either more likable or more important to the reader?
00:28:08
Speaker
But also, some readers just won't like a character.
00:28:12
Speaker
Some readers just won't like your whole book.
00:28:14
Speaker
And I did have a reader who tried to pan my whole book because she was indignant that a character is treated badly.
00:28:23
Speaker
And I sort of read this review and I said, well, yes, the character is treated very badly.
00:28:29
Speaker
That's a sign of good writing, right?
00:28:30
Speaker
That you feel upset.
00:28:33
Speaker
But no, she panned my book.
00:28:36
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:28:37
Speaker
But one star review.
00:28:39
Speaker
Always opinions, isn't there?
00:28:41
Speaker
It's always opinions.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah, but I sort of was upset at first.
00:28:44
Speaker
And then I kind of took it on the chin and said, well, yeah, I think that's a sign that she actually got so into my book, she actually...
00:28:53
Speaker
felt offended on that person's behalf as if, you know, she had been hurt herself.
00:28:58
Speaker
And I think it was, yeah, it's part of that woman's story, not really part of my book, but, but you also, yeah, you know, the, the wider you go, I mean, I would love to have readers all over the world and people, and there will be people who have different bits that they would change or that they want to critique.
00:29:15
Speaker
And I think I'm not a, I don't know social media that well, but I am on Twitter and Instagram, but,
00:29:21
Speaker
There is a lot of negative stuff on there.
00:29:23
Speaker
But I think as the other advice I would give to writers is don't drown in that because you have your own stories.
00:29:30
Speaker
You need to write them.
00:29:31
Speaker
If you just spend all night on Twitter and not writing, you're not going to feel very good about your writing, you know?
00:29:38
Speaker
So yeah, just make sure if you want to be a writer, if you want to try it, you try to carve it in sometime into your life, however you can.
00:29:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:48
Speaker
And see where it goes.
00:29:50
Speaker
See where it takes you.
00:29:51
Speaker
Definitely.
00:29:52
Speaker
It's good advice.
00:29:54
Speaker
It's really good advice.
00:29:55
Speaker
And Amelia, it's, we've reached the point in the show where I have one question left to ask you.
00:30:03
Speaker
A very difficult question.
00:30:05
Speaker
A very difficult
Desert Island Book Choice
00:30:06
Speaker
question.
00:30:06
Speaker
The question is, if you were stranded on a desert island with one book, which book would you take with you?
00:30:13
Speaker
That's such a hard question.
00:30:17
Speaker
I mean, I, when I think about it, I often go to Toni Morrison.
00:30:22
Speaker
She was my inspiration in university and I've been reading Toni Morrison since I was a teenager growing up in the States and she's so inspiring and her use of language is like poetry in prose.
00:30:36
Speaker
So I recently reread her book Jazz, which is just a masterpiece.
00:30:41
Speaker
But the thing is, it's very short.
00:30:43
Speaker
She's a sparse writer in that book, but it's beautiful.
00:30:47
Speaker
Every word is perfectly chosen.
00:30:50
Speaker
But yeah, if I was stranded for life on a desert island, maybe I would try to get some kind of compilation of a writing or something.
00:30:56
Speaker
It's a common choice, something people often like to do.
00:30:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:59
Speaker
I mean, the other thing I was thinking of is actually a new debut book called Open Water by Caleb Azuma Nelson, who lives in southeast London near me.
00:31:08
Speaker
And it's also a masterpiece.
00:31:10
Speaker
He's a very gifted writer.
00:31:12
Speaker
And that's a very sort of simple story about two people falling in and out of love.
00:31:18
Speaker
and experience being Black and experiencing police brutality in London.
Book Recommendation and Social Media Presence
00:31:24
Speaker
But it's also beautifully written, like poetry.
00:31:26
Speaker
So I'm recommending that book to everyone I know.
00:31:29
Speaker
Brilliant.
00:31:29
Speaker
Open Water.
00:31:30
Speaker
I'll have to check it out.
00:31:31
Speaker
Brilliant.
00:31:32
Speaker
Brilliant.
00:31:32
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Amelia, for speaking to us and for your time.
00:31:36
Speaker
Thanks very much for having me.
00:31:38
Speaker
I've really enjoyed the chat.
00:31:39
Speaker
Oh, it's been such a pleasure.
00:31:40
Speaker
Thank you for coming on.
00:31:41
Speaker
Honestly, it's been fabulous.
00:31:42
Speaker
Thanks so much.
00:31:43
Speaker
I'm sure the listeners will love it.
00:31:45
Speaker
And if you want to keep in touch with all of Amelia's work and her whereabouts, not physical, but, you know, just in the ether.
00:31:54
Speaker
LAUGHTER
00:31:56
Speaker
please follow her on Twitter, which is at ABKWriting and her website, which is abkyazze.co.uk.
00:32:06
Speaker
Thank you, Amelia.
00:32:07
Speaker
Thanks so much.
00:32:08
Speaker
Yes, thank you, Amelia.
00:32:09
Speaker
And for everyone listening, just to make sure you don't miss an episode of this show, you can follow us on Twitter at RightAndWrongUK.
00:32:16
Speaker
You can follow us on Instagram at RightAndWrongPodcast and be sure to check out the book lists that we have on bookshop.org.
00:32:25
Speaker
Thanks again, Amelia, for joining us and for sharing your exciting adventures and journey with us.
00:32:32
Speaker
Thank you everyone for listening and we will see you next time.
00:32:34
Speaker
Bye-bye.