Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
#170 - Brian Keane on Building a Business That Doesn't Own You and Scaling Without Selling Your Soul
286 Plays4 days ago
Brian Keane isn't just my mentor — he's the guy who built an online fitness empire before "online fitness empire" was even a category. Four-time bestselling author, podcaster, business coach, and someone who's actually walked the path most people just talk about.
In this episode we go deep on the stuff nobody puts on a highlight reel: how growing up shaped his relationship with money, confidence, and proving himself. How he went from teaching to building a fitness business using nothing but video and Snapchat — before either platform was a "strategy." And how audience-led offers like GAIN Body got built in real time, not from a boardroom.
We also get into the part most coaches won't say out loud — money as a tool, not a personality trait. Scarcity mindsets. Lifestyle creep. The difference between ethical selling and pressure tactics. And what it actually costs — relationally, mentally — to scale a business without losing yourself in the process.
Brian shares his SCALE framework, his book Scaling Your Story, and a free download you can grab here: https://briankeanefitness.com/get-scaling-your-story-book
If you've ever felt the pull between ambition and freedom — this one's for you.
Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro
01:07 Why Brian Now
03:02 Free Book Download
03:52 Starting the Conversation
04:48 Family Values and Security
08:24 Sport and Proving Yourself
12:21 Confidence and Intuition
15:15 Teaching to Fitness Pivot
18:30 Early Social Media Strategy
22:15 Snapchat and Pre Selling
24:26 Kindness Over Numbers
26:40 Ethical Selling and Fit
30:22 Money Mindset Reality Check
34:57 Chasing the Dragon
36:58 Lifestyle Creep and Self Worth
37:57 Money Amplifies You
38:24 Scarcity To Tax Reality
39:22 Social Media Validation Trap
40:36 Freedom Without Fulfillment
42:13 Guilt And Business Pivot
45:43 Mentors Find Your Why
49:15 SCALE Framework Explained
52:42 Paranoia Versus Gratitude
53:47 Grounded Powerhouse Balance
55:39 Success Costs And Tradeoffs
01:05:40 Side Jobs To Buy Time
01:09:15 Book Plug And Wrap Up
Links & Resources:
- Apply for LeadHer business mentorship here
- Learn more about NourisHer health & fitness coaching here
- Subscribe to my weekly coaching newsletter here
- Access my FREE calorie calculator here
- Connect with me on Instagram here
- Connect with me on Facebook here
- Connect with me on TikTok here
- Connect with me on YouTube here
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with friends who might benefit.
Music by LiQWYD Free download: hypeddit.com/link/xxtopb
Promoted by FreeMusicPromo / @freemusicpromo
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone. And welcome back to another episode of the Kate Hamilton podcast. So as I take a slight little pivot with this podcast and focus a lot more on personal development and business, it made sense that This person was my first interview guest in a while. So I haven't interviewed anyone as I'm recording this. It is June 2026 and I have not interviewed anyone since December 2025. And now seemed like the right time and it definitely needed
00:00:37
Speaker
to be Brian.
Brian's Early Fitness Journey
00:00:39
Speaker
So this episode is a conversation that I had with Brian Keane. Brian is a four-time best-selling author. He is a podcaster and a business coach.
00:00:50
Speaker
He's also my mentor that works very closely with me on my business and he's also become a friend over the years. and So we have the most amazing conversation. and It's just like two friends having a chat, but we go we go into a lot of depth. and We talk about the his early days of building his business and his social media. Brian was one of the first people in the online fitness space and social media and marketing and the general online fitness space looked very different in the days that he started. and make him sound ancient. He's actually younger than me, I think. But and he has been
00:01:30
Speaker
in the business that long. and And he talks about those early days and what it was like to build a business back back in
Confidence and Entrepreneurial Beginnings
00:01:38
Speaker
the day. and We talk a lot about his early life and where his confidence and his self-belief comes from. And and that's a really interesting part of the conversation because and I think when we we look at entrepreneurs and we look at people who have a lot to give others and have a lot of knowledge and have built a lot of confidence and have have had a lot of success over the years. and It's always really interesting to to hear where that comes from. And as always, Brian was willing to share and go deep with all of the different things over the years that have shaped him into who he is today.
Designing a Business and Life
00:02:18
Speaker
Then we talk about business. We talk about building a business and a life by design. So as you know, my motto is very much the grounded woman and the powerhouse woman integrated. So we talk about this. This is also relevant for men and that that grounded version of yourself and that powerhouse version of yourself can can coexist and that we can have both. We also do a lot of shooting the shit and just having general conversation around business. I think the moral of this conversation
00:02:48
Speaker
is that you can have the income, you can have the impact, you can have the simple life and you can have the life of your dreams if you build it that way and you build it for the right
Book Offer: 'Scaling Your Story'
00:03:02
Speaker
reasons. So Brian has kindly offered to share a downloadable PDF version of his new business book, Scaling Your Story, which is the five step framework for fitness entrepreneurs who want impact and income. So if this conversation resonates with you and you're like, I want to build a business in this way, I do want to make a living off this. I want to, I want the income.
00:03:26
Speaker
And I want to scale and I want to grow something big, but I also want to make a difference. I want to have an impact and I want to stay true to me. This book is going to help you get there. So I've shared a link to that in the show notes. So you will be able to download it and start implementing what he has to teach. So without further ado, here is the episode with Brian Keane, and I know you will enjoy it as much as I did.
Family Influence and Career Transition
00:03:53
Speaker
Brian, welcome to the podcast. Kate, absolute pleasure. it feels like we've we've been we've had plenty of podcast chats now at this stage, but I'm looking forward to having this one. This must be four or five between my show and your show.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, you've been on my on this podcast twice. This will be the third time on this podcast I've been on yours twice. So yeah, this is our fifth our fifth conversation, one we've just had. So it kind of feels a bit like a part two because we've obviously just chatted for your podcast. Yeah, well, were just saying before we went on here, we're like, all right, let's not overlap with topics. But we're 100% there because they're effectively a part one and a part two because there's a lot of bounce back and forth on that one too.
00:04:25
Speaker
Yeah, no, definitely. But anyway, look, this this episode is obviously going to be a little bit more business focused, but we're not going to talk all, you know, funnels and strategy and everything. We really kind of want to just kind of dig deep on the entrepreneur that you are, if that's OK. And I think, you know, me and you have a lot in common, especially, you know, if we take it back to the very start and our our start in the workforce as teachers. And I suppose what I really wanted to start the conversation with you about was to ask you about the values that you were brought up with.
00:04:56
Speaker
So you became a teacher. And before we kind of get into that transition to entrepreneur and what kind of values were you brought up to believe? like were Like, for example, my family, it's very much, you know, family is extremely important, but also security and safety and, you know, everything that isn't entrepreneurship. So it made sense. You know, I was raised by a teacher and a guard and I became a teacher and it was just very much not something I ever really thought about. So for you,
00:05:25
Speaker
was was that Was that a similar experience for you in your your early years and your upbringing? Some of the values were intentional, I think, and some of them were unintentional. And I've had some brilliant experiences.
00:05:40
Speaker
my ah very close relationship with my mother, always historically. Not so much with my dad. We have a very good relationship now in the last decade, but not historically very good. But I got some great values from him too, mostly unintentional ones, but they were there.
00:05:56
Speaker
I, interestingly enough, security was a big one, but that was an unspoken value. And when I mean it was unspoken, it was you'd be around the table and something that always would come up when a person's name was brought up was, okay, what do they do and how much do they make?
00:06:15
Speaker
that is something that would come up in conversations around the kitchen table. So it was, you know, if they're a teacher, it's like, oh yeah, that's a good, safe and secure job. Make good money, it's pensionable. Or if somebody was running a business, like, oh yeah, that's really good. They make a lot of money's a lot of risk with that though. So these were kind of values that were subconsciously instilled that I actually think pulled up the handbrake on a lot of my entrepreneurial journey.
00:06:38
Speaker
And it's why I had so much limitations with my story. this This isn't something I can do because I was wired to think there's too much risk with that. And it's why i went and became a teacher, safe and secure, pensionable job.
00:06:51
Speaker
And that sounds like it was a negative thing, but it ended up being your mess being your message. Because when you unpack it and realize that your programming and conditioning and your bias and your experience of the world is why you see a specific way,
00:07:08
Speaker
it starts to unravel all the shit that you've thought about yourself that actually may not be supportive or true anymore. But on the counterbalance of that, and we can impact that in more detail if you like, I was also raised to be kind, that it costs nothing to be nice.
00:07:24
Speaker
Something I still regularly say to my daughter and my mum still says to her. It's funny because she to say to me and my sister, she says it to Holly now, she'll say it to Rina, my godchild, my sister's daughter. Like, it costs nothing to be nice. So kindness...
00:07:38
Speaker
alongside security and pushing through difficult times were really hard instilled values that I had that were sometimes given to me intentionally and sometimes unintentionally yeah because I played sport And I've had, ah as I mentioned, a very mixed relationship with my father in the early years. He had his own stuff going on.
00:08:03
Speaker
He softened a lot when he retired and when my daughter was born and we built an amazing, like I go to him now for advice regularly. I see him as a mentor. I love my dad. But he wasn't my person for my earlier life. That was my mum. My mum was who I went to for everything. My mum was who I leaned on when I needed advice, who I leaned on when I needed support. That's who I went to.
00:08:24
Speaker
And because of that, I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder of I'll prove dad wrong. And that was really supportive in ways where if you're trying to play high level sport or even in the early days of setting up a business and all these things that were just, I'll i'll prove him wrong.
00:08:43
Speaker
I'll prove him wrong. He thinks I'm stupid for doing this. I'll prove him wrong. That fire... And I have a very love-hate relationship with using negativity as fuel because it is serving to a point, but it will but burn your whole house down if you don't change fuel source after a certain point.
00:08:59
Speaker
That can be useful, but that was instilled as a chip on my shoulder that actually made me get a lot of shit done. And it allowed me to get up on the mornings when it was difficult. It allowed me to put in the hustle and grind in the early days as an entrepreneur and a business owner when you were struggling. That was really helpful.
00:09:16
Speaker
And then, like most things, you just have to change fuel source after a certain point. So the values were some very intentionally instilled and some not so intentionally, but all molded and shaped journey up to the early point and something that I still come back to regularly to unpack.
Sports Impact on Business Drive
00:09:33
Speaker
When you say one of your values was to, you know, to navigate difficult times, what do you mean by that? Yeah, great follow up. Sport helps a lot because i was very competitive.
00:09:45
Speaker
And that one of the reasons I like entrepreneurship so much is it's kind of like sport that you never have to retire from because you're always and it's not that I'm competing against other people. I don't. you You're in my mentorship and you see how I speak to the master mastermind members in the circle that I'm like, look, be a competition to one.
00:10:00
Speaker
I'm like, you're not competing against anybody else. Pull out your story. I wrote a whole book on scaling your stories. Shameless plug here for those watching on the video. That's about pulling out your story and becoming in a competition of one so that you're in a blue ocean versus a red ocean where all the sharks and the blood is in the water, where everyone's competing against the same stuff. Pull out your story.
00:10:16
Speaker
But the competitive nature of how can I be better drives me a lot. How can I be better? How can I be a better interviewer? How can I be a better mentor? How can I be a better father? How can I be better partner? Like that that drives me a lot.
00:10:28
Speaker
And something that I learned was through sport because My father managed some of my younger sports teams. It's actually part of why I've got a, our relationship wasn't as good because a lot of the frustration got taken out on me and he wasn't very supportive on that side. And I, I resented that. That was my stuff. Did he push you in sports? He, yes, yes, but not pushed in a helpful way.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah. Pushed in a and it's so funny Because my sister still plays and one of the negative things with dad and and I'm very mindful to not do this with Holly, my daughter, because she's into gymnastics and I, what tends to happen is the path of least resistance you tend to parent like how you were parented until you have a pattern interrupt and you stop and go fuck that's not my voice that someone answers. And I think we do that regularly. We still need to stop ourselves. Like, i echo oh, Jesus, I'm my mother again. Yes. And sometimes there's nothing wrong with that. sometimes you're like, do I want to act like this or am I just doing it automatically? Well, that's the thing. That's the difference between programming and conditioning and breaking the cycle, like you mentioned earlier. And one of the things that I struggled with with dad was that you were never told. And I was I was a good athlete. Like I was a good like I played underage county. I was I was a good sports person.
00:11:40
Speaker
But I never got told I was, I was never told I was good. And it didn't matter if I scored 10 points, I widened, I scored 12. It didn't matter if I scored 1-7, I missed a goal chance. And he was probably doing that out of love to make you better again. Possibly, possibly. But it made me resent him and made me resent playing the sport because it took all the fun out of it.
00:11:59
Speaker
And so that became a a weird thing that... That was a representation of how the relationship was. And it's not a knock. Something I know now as a dad and a father is you're doing the best you can with what you have. 100%. And like, you know, he he was doing the same as what he was told and it was just the pattern that didn't break with him. That's how his granddad was with him. It's how he was with me. But that gave me a lot of confidence issues.
00:12:25
Speaker
i't know I never really trust my intuition because... I would come off the pitch, particularly with sport, and I'd be like, I fucking smashed it today. And then I'd get home and be like, would you fucking missed that. You were shite.
00:12:38
Speaker
and But that made me not trust my intuition with everything because I'm like, well, I felt this way and now I'm being told it was the opposite. And that crossed into other areas of life. So I just didn't trust my internal voice.
00:12:50
Speaker
And that negativity bias, I think it's why I got so into psychology because that was a, fault that but that was a experience of me. That's an internal story and narrative that I wove based on circumstances from my early life that held me back when it came to even like teaching. We we had this conversation, we walked here before the podcast. When I was teaching, i hated my first teaching practice.
00:13:14
Speaker
And there and then I should have been like, this isn't the path for me. And I did teaching for four years. But on my first teaching practice, I'm like, I don't like this. But I didn't trust my intuition. I didn't trust my internal voice. I was like, well, you're always wrong because you feel this way and you're told on the outside. So that, that I was 24. That was fast forwarding 10, 15, 20 years later. So that repeated itself until I was able to unpack it. And this isn't a blame game. I'm so grateful for my journey.
00:13:42
Speaker
There's an availability bias of sharing negatives. I got loads of positive experiences from the way I was raised and the way I was growing up. And I was shown how to work hard. I grew up on a farm that the animals don't give a fuck if you're tired. You you get the work done. So so my work ethic was, and my work ethic comes from my father. It comes from being thrown farm clothes at seven o'clock in the morning because you need to go work on the farm. I hated it at the time, but it was ah amazing experience.
00:14:06
Speaker
work ethic that was just instilled from an early age and they're things that not everybody gets and it's really really beneficial so I think it's so easy to play a blame game with mom with dad with teachers family members etc it's not about blaming people it's about this is what it was remove your emotional sting from it all it is is the intensity of the story and the ah story and narrative that you've woven around this and your identity has become part of this and that's why you have low confidence that's why you don't believe in yourself that's why you can't do this thing It's about understanding isn't it it's and I think if if anyone listening is you know feels hard done by and that they do tend to feel resentment towards
00:14:47
Speaker
whoever has has wronged you it or not even wronged you but you influenced you may maybe perhaps in a negative way you will never move past it if you're constantly blaming them but you'll also never move past it if you don't understand why you think or do a certain way. In relation then to like entrepreneurship did that not an enoughness the having to be better did ti thus filter into you building
Building a Social Media Presence
00:15:14
Speaker
a business? It filtered more into the social media side because i qualified in 2012.
00:15:23
Speaker
I'd been working as a personal trainer and a private school teacher for two years. So personal trainer, evenings, weekends, holidays. And then in 2014, I did a full time. So that not enoughness didn't really show up in that side because when I did my first and got my first teaching job,
00:15:44
Speaker
I've spoken about this in books, you know, the story that I came home that Christmas and I was just in like flood of tears being like, I fucking hate my job. I hate what I'm doing. And my mum was like, well okay, what would you do it for free? She was like, you know, and I was like, well, I've worked in a gym and that set that path up and that whole everything.
00:16:00
Speaker
It kind of unintentionally gave me permission because I was afraid of letting everyone down. My story was, I'm going to let everybody down if I don't keep doing this path. I've told everyone going to be a teacher. This is the expectation of me. I'm in this egocentric bubble of one thinking my problems are all there is when there's like way fucking bigger problems out there, but you're too close to it at that time.
00:16:21
Speaker
And I was too emotionally and biologically immature to be able to see past it. And the not enoughness didn't come in that space. That was just getting into alignment with what I should be doing.
00:16:34
Speaker
The not enoughness came when I started doing social media. And what's so interesting now, and I see this with so many people I work with, sometimes indirectly and sometimes not, is it's not a coincidence that I can speak relatively well.
00:16:50
Speaker
And it's not a coincidence that I like being in front of a camera because when you don't feel seen or heard in early life, your wound will project itself into your adult life.
00:17:01
Speaker
And that is not lost on me, but I can put the label and spin it that, oh, this is why I am because of what happened. Or I'm like, this is why I am because of what happened. Yeah. That's fucking great. What a gift. What a gift, exactly. Because then you get to be able to stand there and help other people who don't feel seen or heard.
00:17:23
Speaker
And, you know, and you would have very much been in those early days, being that for me. And I remember, you know, when I when I took my career break from teaching and I got a job in the gym and I was cleaning the showers and I used to think about you saying,
00:17:38
Speaker
I'd rather be mopping a gym floor than being in a classroom. And I felt the exact same way. And it really helped to have heard you say that before so that I didn't think I was completely crazy. And I knew you personally at that stage that, you know, I knew I was making the right decision. But I think sharing stories like this is so valuable. And although it you know it's very vulnerable to share, you know, bits about your your parents or your upbringing or whatever, like I think it's really helpful to understand that someone who's 10, 20, 100 steps ahead of you,
00:18:08
Speaker
has has experienced similar feelings as well. I just think that being like, as you say, stepping into into into like the public eye, let's say, with social media that and you do it because you you maybe didn't feel seen or heard, you're giving other people permission to feel seen or heard. And I think it's it's hugely important.
00:18:30
Speaker
I'd love to know a little bit about how you built your social media, actually, because, you know, there's so much online now. Any, any you know, entrepreneurs listening that how to build your social media and how to structure a reel and how to you know put in a call to action and a hook and all of this stuff. But you built social media following before short form content, before reels.
00:18:49
Speaker
What was what was the game like back then in those early days? what What did what did that consist of? It was very different because I was arguably one of the first movers. I always think of like back around that time, you know, Rob Lipset, Pat Dively. There was myself, Rob and Pat. I remember we were kind of three of the Irish ones doing it.
00:19:07
Speaker
But there wasn't an awful lot of other, art like it's amazing in 2026, there's loads of creators and loads of people to connect with and learn from. There wasn't as many in 2014. So there was a few, Rob was doing YouTube, I was doing a bit of social, then onto podcasts, and then Pat was doing Facebook mainly at the time. So there was like an interconnectedness of learning from each other. So I wasn't alone in this.
00:19:28
Speaker
But I read Gary Vaynerchuk's book, Crush It!, in 2014 and I started competing in bodybuilding shows, fitness model shows in 2014 to try and grow the business.
00:19:40
Speaker
Now that caused its own problems but it definitely it definitely did but I was, the initial reason for that outside of maybe wanting to be seen and heard and self-gratification and all that good stuff that came with it. But it was a business decision. It was, how do I separate myself from the other trainers in the gym at the time?
00:19:58
Speaker
And there wasn't people doing these shows time. It wasn't a big thing. it wasn't a That's a new thing now. yeah it wasn't a big thing. And because it it exploded the business in a positive way, because I got all the young guys who were like, oh, I want to look like you.
00:20:12
Speaker
and then How do I build a body like this? Yeah. yeah Yeah. And like I was fortunate in the early days on that too because I did my, like i I've spoken publicly on the podcast. I did my first show, Drug Free, came fourth. I then went down the drug route more on the fat burners side and things to like really get it down. But I started getting all these young guys be like, how do I look like you?
00:20:36
Speaker
And I had the tools to do it in one way and the tools to do it in another way in terms of like whether it was enhanced or unenhanced. I had the knowledge and the skill set as a coach to do both. So if those were coming in with enhanced, I didn't guide that, but I'm like look, I know how your body will work hormonally here versus someone who was just using creatine pre-workout. I'm like, yeah, cool. These are the expectations. So I ended up arming myself with the skill set And I started of prepping people for shows. That's why I had to evolve my knowledge on that side too.
00:21:06
Speaker
And that differentiated me straight away. So it gave me the first understanding of positioning and niching because I now wasn't just a general personal trainer. I had that skill set, but I could also prepare people for competitions and for shows, bikini athletes, men's physique, bodybuilders, because I had done it. I had seen as I understood how that happened. How did you portray that on social media though? Because you couldn't do a reel at the time and be like, here's how to do X, Y and You know, it wasn't real, but it was so.
00:21:34
Speaker
Were you doing like picture posts? Were you doing stories? right Video was when I really took off. Yeah. Well, I was able to go into video and Facebook was quite big. And when Facebook was organic and I've spoken about this, yeah I think you know this because I spoke about at those circle workshops as well in 2017 in particular, but this is 2014, 15, 16, 17.
00:21:56
Speaker
Video was a big area because when I was able to get on in front of camera and speak, I was getting a lot of reach and then Facebook grew quite a lot for me. Now it's totally different now. You know, you've if you've 60, 70, 80,000 followers on Facebook now, no one bats an eyelid. But when you've got 30 or 40,000 2014, 15,000, that was a lot and And then instagram started to build.
00:22:18
Speaker
And then Snapchat came along and Snapchat was my first viral platform. That was the one that changed everything. Everything changed because it was so easy for me.
00:22:28
Speaker
It was questions coming in and I was getting thousands, thousands of questions per day sent in on Snapchat. And all I was doing was replying to the ones I was opening. And I was, so if there was... just so organic it was just yeah questions that people actually had and you just being able to answer
Audience-Centric Business Strategy
00:22:42
Speaker
them. I built my whole business my whole G.A.L.I.E.N. Body Program and you know some of the story that program like Tommy remembers this who's recording this we recorded a video for the G.A.L.I.E.N. Body Program in 2017 and it had a million views organically on Facebook within 48 hours it was an ad for the program
00:23:00
Speaker
Oh my God. It was an ad. And because it was so unique and I built that off someone messaged on Snapchat saying, i play Gaelic football as well. I quit bodybuilding at this point. I'd gone back playing Gaelic football.
00:23:14
Speaker
And I said, someone said, i play Gaelic football. How are you so muscular? how do you have a six pack and you're still playing football? And I said, well, actually, I train this way, I eat this way and then started getting replies. And I said, you know what I don't have a program for this, but if you screenshot this next post, I will send you on details and I will create it if it's something you want. And that was my first experience with pre-selling before I created anything. and I go, shit. I was like, oh shit. yeah What have i done? It was the dream. I sold like 50 copies of that program before I created a single thing.
00:23:45
Speaker
Before I created a single thing. So concept was proven and then after we just poured gasoline on the fire. Snapchat gave me that. I've been a long-term subscriber of if you have an audience and you've gone audience first or you have a business and you're bidding on your audience on top of it, listen to what they are asking for and listen to what they need. I'm not smart enough Some are better than me for sure and lefty people out there way smarter than me but I'm not smart enough to come up with it from scratch.
00:24:13
Speaker
But what I am smart enough to do is to respond when people are consistently asking for something and then how do I wrap this in a package or a solution that I can deliver it and then the business brain kicks in for your marketing, advertising, positioning and etc. I think that's what makes you unique and really stand out is your and actually bringing it back to the values from your your early life. There is the kindness and the actual listening to what people are saying and connecting to the audience, because in a world now where people are looking to build businesses because they're like they're watching how much
00:24:47
Speaker
how many followers people are getting or how many, how much money people are making and they've realised, holy shit, I'm doing my nine to five job here and this 21 year old is making six figures or whatever, that people have realised that there's real money to be made in building an online coaching business or building any type of online business really and that there's never been a better time to build business.
00:25:09
Speaker
But I think what's happened, particularly if we keep it to the health of fitness space at the minute, or even if we take it to the business mentorship space, it's the same thing. People can get so numbers focused. And I fell into this trap for a little while.
00:25:20
Speaker
Thankfully, I have the self-awareness. I got myself out of it. We get so numbers focused. that people miss the point, miss the point of actually helping the people who are watching and to to actually even in their coaching provide value and to give and to lead with kindness. And i think what's been really refreshing for me with your mentorship is and and even the advice that you give me as I start to grow this second business is to lead with kindness you don't need to trick people into your into coming into your service you don't have to show up as someone that you're not you don't need to pretend to be super successful you just need to know what you're talking about and you need to be kind and you need to be genuine and you need to actually care what the person who's listening to you or asking you is saying
00:26:07
Speaker
I was told in the early days of my fitness coaching and I really appreciate the kind words,
Kindness in Business Coaching
00:26:11
Speaker
so thank you. It's very true. And again, it's it's received, so it's it's very much appreciated. And I was told in the early days of my fitness coaching that people don't care on what you know until they know on what you care.
00:26:21
Speaker
And I've tried to carry that all the way through. And I've been a long-term subscriber and we can come back to money because similar to you, I'm very, very fortunate with the money that I make, the life that I make and having done it for over a decade. I'm in a very, very fortunate position. and I have a lot of freedom, a lot of choices, but money is a by-product of your offer, for your service and the way you show up for people.
00:26:46
Speaker
It's very easy in 2026 and even pre this to be so focused on the top of your funnel and how are you get people into the ecosystem and what's the upside and what's the downside. i'm i'm I'm big on that, on customer journey. I'm a big believer on customer journey of getting people in and meeting them where they're at, with what they need.
00:27:03
Speaker
But if you're not a fit, tell people you're not a fit. I have a square peg into square holes philosophy. You know this because I tell you about the circle cause. I'm at the position now with the group mastermind that I turn away as many people as I bring in because I'm like, like they're not a fit. Either they're too early, they're going to put the, like I've said this, and this is mental to me.
00:27:21
Speaker
You'll know, you'll understand this. The amount of people I've messaged back and it says, don't sign up yet. You're going to put yourself under financial strain. And they're like, holy fuck, nobody has ever said that to me. When I've messaged about bid as an apprenticeship, I'm like, well, don't put yourself under financial strain to sign up for it. I'm like here's all the free content.
00:27:36
Speaker
Or even you telling me to be like, Kate, just give the people the information and the price before you hop on a call with them. on What? Say what? I've never been told that before. And that's instinctively what I've always wanted to do, which is interesting. Yeah, well, it depends as well, because after a certain point, I've said this to you and you're here now as well with the leader, like I'm not in the business of convincing people anymore and I'm not in the business of selling people.
00:28:03
Speaker
Like I actively go against what most traditional business coaches and mentors say, such as they give the price on the sales call and they'll sell them and pitch them on the call. I don't do that.
00:28:14
Speaker
I send people the price and the details and they lay out beforehand because if they genuinely can't afford it, cool, don't come in. I don't want you to put yourself under financial strain or there's tears underneath. You can't afford the mentorship of the circle, can't afford the circle of courses, can't afford the course as a book, can't afford the book as free content. There's something to help everyone. There's something to help everyone to meet them where they're at. And that can be counterintuitive because that's not a revenue first approach.
00:28:39
Speaker
But Revenue is an interesting one because I've had this conversation with other the business coaches and mentors and like i'm ah so some of them I'm dwarfing them in what they make.
00:28:51
Speaker
And I'm like, they're like, how are you making way more? You don't even have ah your sales funnel set up like this. and I'm like, okay, okay. think about the question you're asking here. i was like, think about the difference. I was like, how are you making that? And I'm making this and I have a a more leveraged approach than you.
00:29:05
Speaker
And <unk> that's because they're pushing people in. They're trying to force sales through. They're trying to put square pegs into round holes. And all I ever asked to do was I'm like, just think about them first. It's a service. How do you serve them? We had this on one of our circle calls when people have objections and you're handling objections on calls. And like you can do what you've had in previous mentorships and see online where it's like, oh, you can't make a buying decision. You need to go to your wife or your husband. Are you not your own person? Like that's really icky to me.
00:29:34
Speaker
As opposed to, okay, talk to me about your environment. talk Like, is your husband and wife supportive of this decision? Do they want you to improve this area of your life? And if the answer is no, then that's what you're unpacking.
00:29:46
Speaker
You're like, okay, how difficult will this be for you if you don't have the support at home? And then you're unpacking that objection. And that's leading from a place of service or flipping it where they're like, well, actually, no, they're really supportive. like, okay, so it's not your husband or wife that's the concern. Talk to me.
00:30:01
Speaker
where's the where's the breakdown here and again if it's not a fit that's okay but talk to me about where you're at that's not selling that's serving that's coming and positioning yourself from someone who's trying to help on the other side the money is a byproduct of that revenue will flow from that and if it's coming from an authentic place and ideally a non-scarcity based place that's going to come across when you're having conversations I think money is such a like Let's talk about money for a minute, because it's it's it's kind of, it's a hard one to to to balance because it's easy for me or you to sit here now build building what we've built and that, that you know, that there's a ah secure, stable business that's bringing in money.
00:30:41
Speaker
when someone's starting out and they're genuinely worried about, you know, paying the bills and, you know, money is important because there's, you know, money is important to a certain point where you need it to be able to stop worrying and to be able to stop surviving so that you can thrive and so you can be creative. And that's important to a certain point.
00:31:01
Speaker
ah But then after that, then it's the hustle culture of the making, make your first 20K a month, make your first 30K a month, your a month. And like anyone listening, whether you're listening as someone who works with, has worked with a health and fitness coach or you're listening as a health and fitness coach, we've all encountered these situations.
00:31:19
Speaker
coaches, these health and fitness coaches and business mentors where it's all about, you know, pushing, pressuring and it's all about money, money, money, appearance, appearance, appearance. But one thing that both of us, I think, have learned, I won't speak for you, I'll let you speak for yourself, but that the more you, the more money that you bring in,
00:31:38
Speaker
it doesn't actually make you feel the way you think it's going to make you feel. It just magnifies the way you currently feel. And although you can build, like, you know, and both me and you can teach people how to build the the revenue, to build the systems, to build a freedom,
00:31:54
Speaker
but it's not going to build a fulfillment so if you build a whole business based on something that you're just building it to but to make money and you don't really fucking like what you do or you don't care about the people that you work with you're you're still going to feel empty you'll have more money but you'll also more money more problems you will have more problems and the more money you make the more higher the expenses are too that's the other other thing on the tax So I'll approach that from two different angles yeah because the early stage of needing the money versus the growth stage of being like a heroin addict chasing the next fix of more money are two different problems.
00:32:30
Speaker
Naval Ravikant, the philosopher and investor, has got a great line that money doesn't solve all your problems, but it solves all your money problems. that's That's what happens. So money gives you choices and money can create freedom if you choose to use it the right way. But money can create self-sabotage if you're unstable. Money can create self-sabotage if you're unstable, but it's the same as I always think of money like calorie tracking.
00:32:55
Speaker
Calorie tracking is a tool. Money is a tool. It's not that the tool is good or bad, it's how you're using the tool. People will demonize calorie tracking and there was that that diet culture and then the anti-diet culture that was like, no one should track calories, it's the worst thing ever. And then everyone should track calories, it's how you lose weight.
00:33:12
Speaker
It's like, what the Truth is somewhere in the middle. What's your relationship like with food? Like, where you at? What was your experience as kid? It depends on the user of the calorie counting. Exactly. And money is exactly the same. Money is exactly the same. What's your relationship like? What's your experiences? What's your biases like with money?
00:33:27
Speaker
And if you are in the early stage where you have to make a certain amount to live, that's different. It still doesn't and go against what I said about the service. It just means that the price will probably be a little bit lower and you will cast a wider net and you will spend more time serving people who might not be the perfect fit until you've grown to a certain level where you can bring in the perfect fit.
00:33:51
Speaker
That's just the nature of the beast. But in relation, sorry to interrupt there, but in relation to the money mindset in those early stages, from my experience, obviously, you know, when I left teaching behind and I was like, shit I don't have a secure salary here now. And I have my gym wages and then I had to bring in money, working with people in person and building the online thing on the side and investing in mentorship as well at the same time and just trying to, you know, so there was a constant worry about money for a good while.
00:34:15
Speaker
But then what happened to me was I brought that money mindset into when I was making good money and the money worries were still there. And it was like my body was in like fight or flight, fight mode. for flight I don't fight or flight. I couldn't relax and just enjoy my success because I was worried that it would disappear or I'd be panicking at every VAT month or I'd be, you know, and it's funny, I've worked through it now and I look back now and think, wow,
00:34:42
Speaker
it It's so it's very hard when you're when you're in that survival mode for so long, it's hard to know when to let go a little bit. And but sometimes I found I wasn't even aware of what my money mindset was.
00:34:54
Speaker
that Now you've hit the gold. Are you familiar with Schopenhauer's line on fame? So Schopenhauer, the Russian philosopher, has got a great line on fame, that fame is like drinking water from the ocean. The more you drink, the thirstier you get.
00:35:13
Speaker
Money can be a lot like that, drinking water from the ocean. The more you get, the more you want than the thirstier you get. That means there's a mindset model around money that has now become broken.
00:35:26
Speaker
Because if you see money as an end product, if you see money as anything other than what it is, and number that will allow you more choices and freedom, the intensity of the emotion attached to it becomes so strong and entangled, it impacts conscious or subconsciously decisions you make. When you're in the early stage of making the money, you need to have a certain amount because you need to pay your bills, your rent, your mortgage, you've got kids, e etc, etc. It's bit more black and white.
00:35:57
Speaker
When you get past the point where you need, let's say your operating costs are 8k a month. You need 8k to pay your wages, pay your staff, pay your tax, pay your outgoings, pay your ads, pay your mentors, pay etc, etc, etc, etc.
00:36:10
Speaker
And you want to have maybe a couple of K profit at the end of the month. That means your non-emotional number each month is 10K. That's what you're, so that's it. That's just a number.
00:36:23
Speaker
If you don't adjust your money blueprint internally, what happens to most people is you move the goalposts and go, I need more and I need more and I need more.
00:36:35
Speaker
That's the chasing the dragon part. That's the chasing the dragon. Back to the heroine chasing the dragon. and And I've done that. This isn't to be, I'm not coming from this. So have So have I. Yeah, absolutely. Not from a Buddha mountain rooftop of like, I'm coming from a place of having done this where I'm like, okay, I've made whatever, 200k this year. Okay, I'll go on to three. I made three, let's go to four.
00:36:56
Speaker
And you're moving the goalposts But what happened with me, i have a slightly different story to most with that, was i don't get lifestyle of creep. Meaning that my I have a very low requirement for happiness. I want to be able to go to the gym. I want to be able to sleep. I want to be able to eat good food. And want to be able to spend time with people that I love.
00:37:17
Speaker
I have very, very low requirements for happiness. So I don't have lifestyle creep. I wear a Coros watch. And it's cheaper than a Garmin because it does exactly what I need it to do. I drive a... I bought the Toyota new because I didn't want to... I had problems with the car before. But it's a Toyota...
00:37:32
Speaker
Again, paid in cash, so I did buy it new, but that's, again, back to money solving the money problems. I don't have a mortgage on my house. I paid off my mortgage. So I don't have lifestyle creep, meaning I didn't go and buy a fancier car or a fancier watch. So that...
00:37:46
Speaker
Yes, and and that comes back to the, that's self-worth though. That's nothing to do with money. Like, that's a self-worth issue. Or what will people think about the issue? That's not money. But issue is never the money issue. It is, yeah. The money is an amplification of what you all already are.
00:37:59
Speaker
If you want to have freedom and security, money will amplify that. If you want to show everyone you're the bee's knees and how well you're doing, your money will amplify that and and create its own problems. You get to decide though, as long as it's conscious, I don't give a fuck how people spend their money. You want to go buy a Lamborghini? Please.
00:38:13
Speaker
Go for it. That's your dream. Do it. That's not how I would choose to spend my money. I'd rather build up a stock portfolio. I don't, that's just how I, but that's not right or wrong. It's how do you want it to be? But if you're in the early stage or you're in the point where money is, it's got so much emotional intensity and it did for me. My upbringing was all about money. It was always, always mentioned.
00:38:34
Speaker
So I had a real scarcity mindset around money. I had to spend years rewiring this and getting it to the point where Now, and I mean this in the most respectful way possible, more money now just means more taxes.
00:38:50
Speaker
And like, how do I be more tax efficient with my pension fund? Because that's what happens. Like, you know, like I cry a little bit every month when I get my VAT bill and things. I'm like, oh my God, I know it's not my money anyway. It's taking the government's money anyway. But like, you look at it and go, cho that's so much. Like, that's so much. Like...
00:39:06
Speaker
So, but that just is what it is. Again, you put the mental gymnastics and go, cool, the VAT is high because the sales are so high, you know, and the sales are so high because the service is good and the service is good and people are, lives are transforming. So you can do the mental gymnastics around it, and but you've got to follow that thread, otherwise it doesn't happen. Yeah. And I think that the culture that we live in and the social media that we we live in, that anyone listening who's looking to build a business or is building a business to really just stop and ask yourself, are you moving in the right direction?
Fulfillment in Business and Personal Growth
00:39:34
Speaker
Why are you building this business? Is it just for money? Are you just trying to validate yourself? And like none of the, nothing's wrong with the initial why. It's just then to really kind of dig a little bit deeper.
00:39:44
Speaker
and Because there are a lot of people showing off online and with rented cars and whose business class that they can't afford. And we won't we won't go down that route. And everything that glitters is gold. But I suppose what I really want to kind of talk about is, and even freedom. Like I know that there'd be a lot of mums listening to this podcast or or women who who want to build businesses and they want to escape the nine to five. They want the freedom and the flexibility. And this was very important to me. So even with money, it was never about money for me, but it was about the freedom.
00:40:14
Speaker
of my time, freedom of my purpose um and freedom of money worries. But then I realized very quickly that the money worries. i had to free myself of that. The money didn't get rid of the money worries. but and The money makes the money worries worse. Yeah. When you have something to lose, it makes it worse. When it's bigger, it's bigger. It is bigger worries. And so that had to be worked through. and But when I achieved the freedom and i and I have very much got freedom of my time and flexibility and and it's wonderful, but it's amazing how quickly you get used to it.
00:40:47
Speaker
And you can build something and to to give yourself so much freedom that you accidentally take away your fulfillment. You mentioned that on my podcast, which is a line that like, it wasn't quite a mic drop because I had to like follow up because I'm like, oh, that's good.
00:41:02
Speaker
That's, that does not get spoken enough about that. And I've, I've had that cycle of what's what's, what's really difficult in entrepreneurship. And me and you had this conversation as we were coming in here about a couple of people in the circle and a few people we know personally who are like 24, 25, 26, and they've got that. drive and that burning desire to prove themselves and learn as much as they can and I had that you had that but that goes that burns out and it gets replaced by something else the longer you're in your journey but something that doesn't get spoken enough about is when you've created security and freedom for yourself how does the fulfillment come up alongside it because sometimes it can dip sometimes it can dip and I've had that where your business is so secure
00:41:47
Speaker
You're at a glass ceiling, but you don't really have the motivation to push through it. But then it starts to decline like a weird seesaw. That's really interesting. I'd like you actually to actually just to flip it, to talk a little bit on that, because you were the first one I've heard use it in that language. And I don't think this gets spoken enough about. I get it. It's ah it's a it's a it's outcome of success, which would not everyone's going to taste at this current moment. But it is something that nearly everyone tastes at some point if they are successful in their path or journey. I think with this, right, and, you know, and I grew nourisher and I love my clients. I love my staff. I love everything about it.
00:42:20
Speaker
i But I think as I grew it and built it into what it is and might might I do in my business what I want to do, i you know, the interactions that I have and I have staff to to do the other bits and and we're like a family and we're a great team. But I think I had a lot of kind of guilt A lot of guilt and shame that shame is probably strong, but guilt that I had built this and I suddenly didn't feel for it the same way that I thought I would or that I used to. that i And then I was like, I'm letting my clients down. I don't I don't care anymore. i don't
00:42:56
Speaker
But I think there was a mix of burnout, which we'll come back to because it's a big theme for both of us. There was a bit of burnout there, about a constant chasing and suddenly not having to chase anymore and and a stop.
00:43:07
Speaker
and ah But I felt quite embarrassed and guilty that I didn't feel connected with it anymore, with nurture the same way that I used to. And then I'm like, I'm letting people down.
00:43:18
Speaker
But then when I thought about it, I was like, OK, I've built this business for six years. What's happened in those six years? I've fucking grown as a person. i've like i'm we And we said, I don't even remember whether it was your podcast or my podcast that we said this on, but I'm not the same woman that I was when in 2020.
00:43:35
Speaker
You said at the end of mine, yeah, when I asked what you were grateful for, you mentioned it. I've grown, I've evolved. I don't think I'm better than what I was when I, in 2020, I said this, I think that life very much is about coming back to who we really are and shedding layers of ourselves.
00:43:49
Speaker
And what that has done is I've done, if I've been on a serious personal development journey. So my passion has very much become personal development, mindset, limiting beliefs, identity based habits and business and the actual game of growing a business, which is it is a bit of a game.
00:44:10
Speaker
And if you can treat it like a game and the game that you're playing, the people that you're playing the game with that you have love and respect for, it's fantastic. and the end that you see that it's a game and you don't let it ruin your life.
00:44:24
Speaker
i And I think that that growth has led me, that it's okay as an entrepreneur to grow and you don't have to feel guilty that suddenly you don't feel fulfilled by the same things.
00:44:34
Speaker
And that that I think is what has happened to me and what's happening with this pivot, with this podcast and with the the development of Leader. Nourisher isn't going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere from Nourisher, but I have so much to give.
00:44:48
Speaker
in relation to everything I've learned on this journey that I have to give to feel fulfilled because I feel like I i very much believe we're all here for a reason. We're all here to contribute. We all have specific gifts. We all have specific experiences. And I believe that we're all there to to share our gifts or experiences as idealistic as that sounds. But I do believe that that we're supposed to do that in whatever way that is, whether it is by yet like but by what we're doing or whether it is by what you do in your job or by your parenting or whatever but that you're there to to give and that and when we disconnect from that fulfillment that giving and you talk about this all the time coming from an active of service so yes it's okay to enjoy the game and the thrill of making money like it's it's fun to make money it is
00:45:34
Speaker
But you can't build your whole self-worth and your emotions around it. And it's not it's going to feel empty unless you feel like you're get you're making a difference. You can cut this out if you don't want to keep it in the podcast.
00:45:47
Speaker
But do you remember in the Circle workshop when we were brainstorming back and forth about revenue, ideas to bounce revenue and increase And one of the options I gave you was, well, we can add a one-to-one element to nourisher.
00:46:05
Speaker
And you can do one-to-one fitness coaching at a high price. And you're like, no, I like the group stuff. I love the setup. I love the community. Like, it's not the one-to-one doesn't drive me. And then within two, three minutes, you were speaking about business entrepreneurs and helping females.
00:46:20
Speaker
And you just lit up. Your whole energy shifted. The whole room noticed this. And you're like, and then I put the question to you, would you work with people one-to-one in an internship? You were like yeah, yes, I would. Yes, I would. Okay. Yeah. And before i was like, I'm not willing to trade my time to work with someone one-to-one. Yeah.
00:46:39
Speaker
Which was really, really interesting. Yeah. And the reason I bring it up is everybody has, called it in rewriting your story. It's in the chapter on jumping out bed every morning.
Understanding 'Why' in Business
00:46:51
Speaker
It's a habit six, I think. That's your jump out of bed every morning. the One of the things that a good mentor will do, what I'm not saying that's me, but mentors I've worked with have done, is very similar to the language you use about getting back to yourself.
00:47:08
Speaker
A good mentor or a good coach will reveal things that are right in front of your face that you can't see. Yeah. And your body reaction, your tone, your emotional shift, when something that lights up, like those big ah star eyes on an emoji, you're like that. That's what we need to pull out. Whether that is a podcast, a video, a side business, a different element to your business. That's what coaches and mentors are doing. You're looking for that. Fitness coaches do the same thing. Health coaches do the same thing. You're looking for the why.
00:47:42
Speaker
You're looking for the thing that's deeper than the, I want to lose weight. And it's okay for your why to change. And I talk about this in relation to health and fitness all the time. And my why is very much.
00:47:54
Speaker
Has like has my why with my health and fitness coaching has very much changed to. I really want to help them do the deep work. To make that change, just be healthier and happier forever.
00:48:07
Speaker
Right. And that day to day, the ins and the outs, the protein, the calories that. it it doesn't It doesn't do it for me in the same way. It's still important. But like Lindsay, my head coach, this is her everything. And she's like she's so passionate about and she's so good it. And that's why we work so well together.
00:48:22
Speaker
Our Wednesday night call with Unnourish Her, it's like the whole community comes on and it's deep. We talk about we like we talked about our relationships with our bodies this Wednesday and you know and got really deep with how...
00:48:37
Speaker
we need to to build up that self-love. And like it so it's it's all very mindset based. So when I'm there and I'm there every week, I look forward to it is actually the highlight of my week. And we really connect. We really get deep. And that's my buy for that coaching business. And I feel like the content that I put out now that in relation to business ties nicely in with a lot of that because it's all personal development. And i think as I move forward wit with this business, it's it's important to any any entrepreneur listening that it's okay to grow and for it to change with you. If anything, I i believe that's the formula for for success.
00:49:15
Speaker
I gave you, its just a horrible, shameless plug, but the book is free for those who want to download the e-book version. on I'll give you the link for those who want it. But it's getting your story. I told you right before we went on air to go to the Evolve section on the scale framework because it's where you're at now.
00:49:30
Speaker
And one of the evolutionary... sentences and elements of that chapter was i talk about my why the why is so scale framework a story core offer amplify leverage evolve you're sick of me if i can say that at this stage i'm sure but just for those unfamiliar with it but storytelling the worksheet and work elements at the end of that chapter is all about pulling out your why why are you doing this why you here who you're serving and why are you serving them And I finished the book with how I started as a fitness business, wanting to create freedom for myself and others, whether it was freedom of food, with their physical body, with their confidence.
00:50:06
Speaker
And it evolved into creating a consultancy business and a mentorship business where I'm helping others create freedom within their own lives. The why never changed, but the vehicle for it did. Yours is the same.
00:50:16
Speaker
Nourish her and lead her are interconnected and always will be because they're an extension of you. But the why... And your micro-wise tend to change. Micro-goals, micro-wise. Macro-wise tend to not change that often. There's something there that's a value-based system for you.
00:50:31
Speaker
it's free It's freedom and fulfillment. Freedom fulfillment. And that's exactly what I want for my Nourish Her clients. Like like you said, the freedom... Yeah, from their own self-sabotaging habits, their own negative thoughts about themselves.
00:50:44
Speaker
that That freedom, it's just so important. And it everything else fixes, the numbers fix themselves. The, you know, the body size, the weight. When you fix all that underlying stuff, it the numbers take care of themselves with a little bit of structure. It's the same with money. I'm so glad you drew that parallel because I was about to go on. Because yeah, you have to fix those underlayers and that's the thing with leaders. I just really want to help female entrepreneurs get that, work through these struggles that are holding them back, realising that focusing on the number on the scales, focusing on your calories,
00:51:17
Speaker
All the time being so fucking obsessed is not going to fix the problem of your happiness and your freedom and your fulfill fulfillment. Same is true of money. If you're constantly fixated on it, you're not going to feel free. You're not going to feel happy and you're not going to feel fulfilled.
00:51:30
Speaker
And it's the same for both. Exactly. like the What's so interesting about fitness and business, I think it's why it's been very easy for me and will be for you to make the transition because there's so much overlap.
00:51:45
Speaker
It's just you're solving a slightly different problem, but the same underlying issues is the same freedom, fulfillment, happiness. That's what most people are seeking out in different areas of their life. Some people don't know that that's what they're seeking out though. But even if you think you want to just you're here just here to lose a stone or you're just here to make a bit of money, why why do you want to lose a stone? Why do you want make money? But that's the difference. And comes back to this. It comes back to this. I've said to you before, give people what they want on the front, to what they need on the back.
00:52:11
Speaker
that's That's business 101 with a service-based business. And sometimes the why, someone's layer of first-level thinking and their consciousness is, I want more money. I want to lose the weight.
00:52:21
Speaker
I want to get... And that's okay at the start. Not a problem. If anything, it's way better than someone coming in randomly. But people aren't random. They tend to not pay for coaching. Or even if you think about your entrepreneurship, I want to prove my dad wrong. For me, I want to i want to get away from teaching. yeah I want to prove I can do want to prove everyone wrong. Yeah.
00:52:38
Speaker
And that's okay. And that's okay in the beginning. yeah If I was still doing that now, would be really unhealthy. that but that's that's But that sort of comes back to what I mentioned earlier about gratitude over anxiety. And in the last chapter, when I'm talking about only the paranoid survive, it's the title of the book from Andy Grove, who was the CEO of Intel.
00:52:54
Speaker
And only the paranoid survive was my operating system for how I ran my business for the early years. That the more anxious I was, the better the business did. And that is true. Objectively, it did better because I was constantly worried about it. But that meant that's not free. That's not a free lunch. That comes at the cost of your peace. Comes at the cost of your relationships. Comes at the cost of your happiness. Comes to the cost of a lot of different things.
00:53:14
Speaker
And after a certain point, The juice wasn't worth the squeeze on that. I'm like, this isn't worth the trade-off. So I either have to quit the business and stop, although it's objectively successful, but subjectively I feel like I'm running around in a hamster wheel.
00:53:31
Speaker
I need to change the fuel source. And that's where the service, the gratitude, the optimization, the leverage comes in. And you get to decide how you own your business. I've said this to you countless times. You're like, I want to do this, so I to do I watch the radio. i'm like, what do you want to do?
00:53:44
Speaker
I don't know, Brian. I was like, what do you want to do? But that's the first question. like, what want to do? And sometimes it takes us while to know. But I think what what you've said there in relation to, you know, like things not being worth it. And this is the whole concept that I have as well with Lead Her is that grounded woman and that powerhouse woman integrated. So this is this concept that I have where I used to think I had to choose. You know, I built, I was that powerhouse and I built, built, built, built. And then was like, my God, I'm so fucking frazzled. I'm so busy. I don't feel folksxi fulfilled. I still feel worried about everything. I'm probably a little bit health less healthy than I was because I'm so fucking stressed. And all I want is a simple life. But then I thought it was like the simple, peaceful, fulfilled life.
00:54:23
Speaker
I had to trade the success. And that took me a long time to realize that that's not true, that you can have both. But you really have to challenge your definition of success and money, as you have talked about, can very much be a part of it. And you can look at some of the biggest entrepreneurs in the world that are extremely fulfilled.
00:54:44
Speaker
But just because they're making billions, I always I always like to refer to Sarah Blakely in relation to it to a a female entrepreneur. And you can tell by it beams out of her. She she is. made for this like she's a billionaire she's built this massive she's the founder of Spanx for anyone who's who's unfamiliar with her check look her out look her up she's amazing but she's meant for that but if you're looking like i want to be just like Sarah Blakely because I want to be a billionaire that her lifestyle isn't for everyone. That's what fulfills her. that And it's not for her. It's not about the money.
00:55:15
Speaker
And any the highly successful people, it's never been about the money. It's always about something deeper. And i think when you figure it, you'll figure it out as you go along, what your fulfillment, you have to listen. you This is back to the tuning in to yourself.
00:55:31
Speaker
What feels, what's light and fire inside you? What makes you feel fulfilled? What makes you feel excited? It doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense. lean into it. I never told you about my story with Chris Williamson from Modern Wisdom. I don't think I've ever spoken with this on a podcast. So Chris, who I consider the goat of interviewing in podcasts, he's in Modern Wisdom, one of the biggest podcasts in the world, friend of mine. I think he's just phenomenal at his craft.
00:56:00
Speaker
But something that I haven't spoken about publicly is Chris has been on my podcast and And Chris invited me on his podcast and we only had time for one and mine was bigger than his at the time.
00:56:12
Speaker
So we decided to do my one because it was more leveraged. And I remember chatting to Chris, which is so funny now because Chris is one of the biggest podcasts in the world. Wonderful guy. Lovely, lovely man. Great podcast interview on my own. 313 on the Brian Keane podcast. I don't think I've ever listened to that one. i'm actually I love Chris. was a great greaterist it's just It's a great episode.
00:56:30
Speaker
He's brilliant at what he does. And he's a great interviewee as well as an interviewer. Very well spoken guy. But one of the things Chris was messaging back and forth on on WhatsApp before we were setting up the podcast was he was in the early days of modern wisdom.
00:56:44
Speaker
And he was like like, how do I build a big podcast? Because mine was very big at the time, still is, but was very big at the time. And I was like, look, I did this, I did this, I did this, did this. He goes, great, I'm going to do that, but i'm going to I think I'm going to 3X it.
00:56:56
Speaker
So I was like, all right, fair enough. And he was like, how come you don't do them in person? And I like, well, I just, I can't, my schedule, on my daughter, et cetera. He goes, I'm going to do them in person because I think that they'll be better for social. was like, yeah, okay.
00:57:08
Speaker
He was like, I want to build a really big podcast. I'm like, cool. Like, best of luck. I hope you do. Looking back now at 2026, I'm like, I'm so happy for him because he had, he's built ah a mammoth of a machine.
00:57:21
Speaker
And I remember thinking at the time, as he started to grow and it got bigger, I was like, he has put in so much fucking work that nobody has seen for the amount of growth that that podcast has achieved.
00:57:37
Speaker
And his attention to detail. his His attention to detail and his, but his grind, Kate. Like yeah he was in, after that podcast, we were back and forth a little bit. I've got Chris's number. out It's weird flex. What a weird fucking flex to be like, oh, Chris's number. But we'rere we're back back and forth on WhatsApp.
Sacrifices for Success
00:57:53
Speaker
And he was traveling out to Dubai and he was doing all these travels to batch podcasts. And I was like, man, he is putting in the grind. And then as it started to explode, I'm looking at it going, fuck, no wonder he exploded, man. His attention to detail, his travel, his constant refinement of literature so that he could prep for a podcast. I'm like, no wonder he succeeded. But also probably a lot of money put in in the front end as well. Money, but he was doing well on the front end because of his background with clubbing and stuff. So he had the resources. He had the info, yeah, yeah. But the point I'm making as well is knowing how much it costs,
00:58:28
Speaker
to grow to that level, I would never have been willing to make that sacrifice that he did. I wouldn't have been like, my Holly's 11 now, but she was 6, 7, 8 around that time.
00:58:40
Speaker
Like she was young. i was like, I'm not leaving for fur weeks at a go. I'm not going to trade my freedom of time for this. And the reason I bring Chris up is it's so tempting as an entrepreneur and a business owner to be like, I want what Kate has. I want what Brian has. I want what Sarah Blakely has. I want what Chris Williams has. But are you willing to pay the cost of what they paid?
00:58:59
Speaker
Everything has a trade-off. Everything has a trade-off. We can balance those trade-offs and that's where the where they're grounded and the powerhouse comes in. But it can't all be one-sided for most people.
00:59:12
Speaker
But for that level of success, for a lot of people, it is very one-sided. It's very one-sided. And if the juice is wet the squeeze for you, because part of the problem with Sarah Blakely's, your Chris Williamson's, sometimes to a degree, your Kate Hamilton's, your Brian Keane's, you can put in all the effort and not get the reward.
00:59:28
Speaker
You have to love it. You have love it. Did you actually ever watch the the Richard Branson documentary? No, but I've read all his books, so. I watched the documentary a few years ago. It was before his wife had died. This is a good few years ago. And I remember watching it, right? Because I love Richard Branson. Like he really, I just, you know, I would have always looked up to him. But I watched that documentary and I was like,
00:59:47
Speaker
Holy shit, he's a fucking narcissist. In a really nice way. He's a lovely guy. But like he travelled across the Atlantic in a hot air balloon twice. Nearly died twice with small kids at home. And of my a takeaway from all of that was like his wife's a fucking saint.
01:00:02
Speaker
I was like, holy shit. But it really opened my eyes to how much he sacrificed and how obsessed was. he was to build that brand.
01:00:13
Speaker
And it's that he's a very extreme example. I still very much love Richard Branson, but it's like, it is so, it's such a selfish pursuit to build something that big that you have to, there's only a certain type of person who can do it without going crazy.
01:00:32
Speaker
And you need a certain type of person in your support system that understands the vision and doesn't resent you for it. That's the, golden piece of advice because who you surround yourself with your partner particularly I think your family to a degree but you kind of choose your family and your friend network a self-pursuit for something that big because success leaves clues and I'm a big reader I'm a big autobiography person so so I've read all of Branson's books I love the life the book by my on Michael Jordan like people who are extreme athletes extreme actors extreme entrepreneurs CEOs etc
01:01:08
Speaker
Something that I didn't know in the early days was the things that make them successful in one area have came at the cost of success in other areas.
01:01:20
Speaker
And I didn't, what I didn't understand, this is so fucking stupid when I look back on myself. I thought life was like a picking mix. that, oh, I want that level of success in my business, that level of success in my health, that level of success in my relationship, not knowing that sometimes the reason you're so successful in this is because you're fucking shit over here or you put all your time and energy in the grass screen on the side your water and there's none on this side over here.
01:01:47
Speaker
that was a the podcast was a great occupational benefit to me of interviewing people who I really looked up to and who I was really inspired by and then I talked to them and they have a terrible relationship with their kids Or they just got recently divorced.
01:02:05
Speaker
I'm like, man, ah before this conversation, I would have swapped lives with this person because I'm like, they're doing everything I want to do. You interviewed Matt Fraser, didn't you? yeah I read his book and I just thought, i because like I remember watching the CrossFit games. I was really into CrossFit back then and being like, oh my God, how is he such a God? How is he so much better than everyone else? Like by him i by miles. like i just And I read his book and I was like, oh my God, he's fucking lunatic. He's literally, he has nothing else in his life.
01:02:32
Speaker
Now, it's his life is very different now and he's got two kids and he's married and, you know, and I'm so happy for him that he has that balance now. But he always knew it was temporary. He always knew there was no such thing as balance. And I just think that we need to just, like, as we navigate our entrepreneur entrepreneurial journey, I think my message from what we're talking about here that I'd like people to take is that You know, you want to be that one sided and you think that's for you. Go for it. Like you've just said it, like Chris Williamson did it. And, you know, you were only talking to him a few years ago and look at him now.
01:03:03
Speaker
But you can build a level of success that gives you the life of your dreams where you can travel and you can be with your kids and you can have you don't you can have enough money to do anything that you want to really do without being overly materialistic.
01:03:17
Speaker
You can have the freedom, the fulfillment, the happiness, and it doesn't have and it can be that balance If you wanted to be, or if you want to, I asked you a question on my podcast, how hurtful or helpful was ah being obsessed.
01:03:29
Speaker
And you said it was very helpful. And I agree. I've written for a short term, I've written six books. And three of those books were written four or 5am because I would get up and I would grind them out and get them done because otherwise i'd bring high to bring school, I had to train, i had to run my business. So I was up at And there are periods that that you have to do that. And I think, isn't it Jim Carrey that says, if you're not willing to downgrade your life for a year, to live the life of your dreams forever or something along the lines of paraphrasing, you don't want it enough.
01:03:56
Speaker
And that's the, you know, the working in the gym, the taking minimum wage, the not going on holidays for a few years. That's the imbalance of not doing as many, you know, things with your friends or quality time while you're building something specific. But it has to be temporary if you want a balanced life afterwards. Otherwise, you'll turn around you'll be oh, shit.
01:04:14
Speaker
but Which is is such a sad thing. I spoke in Rewire Your Mindset about that 97 year old rule and I based it off, I'm not sure if you read, not Bonnie Tyler, she sings fucking, the that's get me a hero song, but Bonnie something with the five regrets of the dying, the girl, the palliative care nurse who wrote a book and one of them was I wish I had the courage to live the life that I wanted and I wish I spent more time with my family and I wish I spent less time at work. The 97 year old rule is where you're fast forwarding to the end of your life and you're thinking about the regrets in your deathbed.
01:04:43
Speaker
And you said it on my show about like where have the last six years gone with your kids, your littlest and youngest going from two to eight, your girl becoming a teenager and your eldest, you know, nearly being an adult. It flies.
01:04:57
Speaker
And there's another alternative parallel universe where you did Chris Williams and not where you're like, cool, I'm going to build this and going travel. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that, et cetera. And yes, yeah Chris is a different scenario. And then I'd be sitting here as a multimillionaire that's wildly recognized. And my kids, are if I don't have the same relationship with my kids, that I do. Hint coming back to. And perhaps they might have problems because of that. So what life do you want? And is the juice worth the squeeze?
01:05:21
Speaker
Because you get to decide, and if you're not, ah this you've seen this in the Telegram group, because I know you dip in and out as well for our circle, that, actually it was you that put this in here, never mind, about the timeline. what i wasm saying today It was you that put this in here, about if you're not worried about the timeline, there's no rush. Yeah, what's the rush? Yeah. Yeah, what is the rush? You're building this life of freedom, this business, this life of fulfillment.
01:05:45
Speaker
So if you're feeling really, really stressed and overwhelmed, you're rushing it. You're rushing it. And you you do need a base level income, revenue, cetera, to survive. but like Yeah, but just get a side gig. Just get it a job that's low. You clean bathrooms, you clean gyms. I worked in a supplement store. And I used to do sit the six to two shift and I had from 6am till 9am by myself at the desk.
01:06:06
Speaker
Members were just, you know, clocking themselves in and I'd just say good morning to them. And I was working on my online business at the desk. And the lads that owned the gym knew that and it was totally fine. And then when everything started, you know, kicking off at 9am, then it was teaching classes. I was cleaning machines. I was washing things, earphones in, listening to business podcasts. So, you know, if you're struggling financially with your business, it's taking the joy out it. Get a little job like that. You're not too good for it. You're not too big for it.
01:06:31
Speaker
It'll be the best thing that you'll do. You can learn while you're doing that job. You can build while you're doing that job and just take your time. One of the first things I ask, and this isn't a pitch for my stuff, but I think it's valuable because it it highlights what you just said.
01:06:45
Speaker
When people message to come into the circle, for example, summer side hustle businesses coming in, One of the questions I will ask is, well, what's the job and how much cognitive time and effort is it taking from you?
01:06:55
Speaker
And people get surprised by that question because they assume that, well, look, and i've got I've got six hours every week or 10 hours every week I can put into the side hustle. I'm like, no, no, no, it's not about that. I'm like, how cognitively demanding is your job? And working in a supplement store, cleaning a gym, working a desk is not cognitively demanding.
01:07:13
Speaker
So that allows you to build out this other thing. If you're working a job where you are mentally exhausted at the end of the day, that becomes harder to build a side hustle off. So when you're choosing and you might be Superman, Superwoman and be able to bounce it all, I wouldn't have been able. Teaching was too cognitively demanding for me. It's why found it so hard to build it out at the side. It's I couldn't go back teaching. Even job sharing it was a bit much for me. It is. It's a lot because your are very draining because you're on all the time, but also lesson plans, etc. It's very cognitively demanding and that can make it challenging. So just be mindful if you're in that scenario in the early stage that...
01:07:48
Speaker
Not all jobs are created equal. Not all revenue is created equal. Not all money is created equal because some take more of your time. Some take more cognitively. And if you're trying to build up the side hustle, you're trying to minimize the amount of output that's going towards this job that is building somebody else's life versus the one that's building your own.
01:08:09
Speaker
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. That's such good advice and really, really good advice to finish on as well. I think anyone listening that is, kind and there'll be a lot of people that are in that position that like, don't be afraid to step away from the career you don't want anymore. It doesn't mean you're throwing everything away and you're putting your family at risk. You can get a less demanding job while you build what you
Identity and Career Reflection
01:08:28
Speaker
want to do. And that's what I did. I stepped away from the identity as a teacher. I, but like you know, are people walking into the gym looking at me being like, oh God, has Kate had a breakdown? Why is she and working in a gym? She's a teacher, is she not? You know, or what happened? You know, I'd say that there was a lot of that going didn't care.
01:08:41
Speaker
didn't care. I was building, I was listening and to things. I was building. And, you know, if you wanted to enough, if you'll do it. And it was the best thing I did because it took me away from that teacher identity.
01:08:51
Speaker
It gave me the clarity to be able to think. And it also, physical
Advice for Beginners
01:08:55
Speaker
I think because it was physical work, I was physically working through any tension and anxiety in my body without realising it because I was moving my body through work, through cleaning, through teaching classes. And that really helped with the stress. I just think that I think that's actually just a golden nugget of advice that you've given there to anyone starting out.
01:09:15
Speaker
So I suppose to
Conclusion and Book Promotion
01:09:16
Speaker
finish up, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. My pleasure. Anytime. I know we've been talking for hours at this stage and I know you have a book that's out at the minute called Scaling Your Story. And I think it's actually, I haven't, you've just given me a copy there and I'm going to read it. I haven't read it yet. And I think it's been beneficial that I haven't read it yet.
01:09:33
Speaker
It's good time for you right now. yeah But I think it's good for our conversation because it means that you we were just talking very organically and then you were able to reference you know what what that was relevant to in the book.
01:09:44
Speaker
I feel like we should have Johnny here in the background be like, Brian, excellent book. Johnny Morrison on Instagram. You talk about the testimonies for books and the mastermind. I'm like, I just need to get him on it with a massive bullhorn. Johnny will be listening to this episode, I'd say. So Johnny, this is a shout out to you. Johnny Morrison on Instagram. Follow him if you don't follow him. He's amazing. He was giving Brian Ray reviews for this book of how amazing it is. But sorry, all jokes aside, tell us a quick little bit about the book, who it's for, what it's going to do to help and where is the best place to get it and to find you if they don't already follow you, obviously. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, scaling your story, five step framework fitness entrepreneurs who want income and impact. What's very interesting about this was I wrote a very specific book for fitness entrepreneurs and then I started getting people, like I've had hairdressers message me, nail technicians. I a driving instructor actually sign up to the Circle off the back of it because it's for service-based businesses. For marketing purposes, I made it for fitness.
01:10:43
Speaker
It's based on the scale framework. So storytelling is S, core offers, C, amplifying, both is A, L is leverage, getting your time back and E is evolving, supporting yourself out of business and disrupting yourself. I built it off that framework. You can get it on Amazon, audiobook be out in the autumn and i give away day I'll give you the link first, the free PDF for people so they can check it out. Amazing. So it's just, it's it's one of those that it's the book I needed in the early days. Like I need, to be honest, it even helped me now with the consultancy for the mentorship the mastermind because I was going back and re-editing and going, oh my God, I need to eat my own cooking here and do this. But it was the one i needed so much in the early days. It's very different to the other ones.
01:11:20
Speaker
The books are fitness books, mindset books. This is a business book with everything wrapped in. So it should help people a lot. They can check out the free download that you'll have that you can give people off the back of it with the link and they can see then if it's going to be beneficial. But you can if johnny is anything to base it by and some of the others it's been helping on a lot of people so far yeah no it's brilliant and yeah we'll we'll link all of that in the show notes anyway and where to reach you as well if they have any other business business related questions and based off the back of the book and that's great that they'll be able to download the pdf brian thank you so much for coming on i love this conversation oh and that's the pleasure thank you so much again thanks