Transcript
Chris Minnick: do Hey everyone.
Chris Penick: We're back.
Chris Minnick: We're back.
Chris Penick: We're back
Chris Minnick: Uh... Uh, Welcome to the Moving Towards Better podcast.
Chris Penick: Yay!
Chris Minnick: I'm Chris.
Chris Penick: And I'm also Chris. So to tell us apart... You might know me sometimes as DJ Crispy. Long story in other episodes.
Chris Minnick: And I am C Money. And so... We're going to talk about something here today. I...
Chris Penick: I've been threatened with him.
Chris Minnick: This is...
Chris Penick: He may try to trigger me here. so just
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: for warning for all you folks here.
Chris Minnick: Now.
Chris Penick: We'll see. No?
Chris Minnick: This one's not triggering. um
Chris Penick: Okay.
Chris Minnick: So... Mr. Panic. You know, um...
Chris Penick: Mr. Minnick.
Chris Minnick: Yeah. you You've, um... seen the work of and like maybe emailed with perhaps heard of my partner, Jill.
Chris Minnick: um Who is.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: spectacular painter she is she is a modern master of
Chris Penick: Mhm.
Chris Minnick: of oil painting, narrative painting.
Chris Penick: Yep.
Chris Minnick: ah Genius, jillmcverish .com.
Chris Penick: Mhm.
Chris Minnick: uh just Just a genius. And we talked about having her on the podcast.
Chris Penick: Yes. And...
Chris Minnick: And I. i you know we we were hanging around you know in the the upstairs like you know
Chris Penick: as you do
Chris Minnick: as we do, drinking wine, as we do, and whatnots. And I mentioned, hey, would you like to be on the podcast? And she was like, well, what do I talk about? And I said, you know, the podcast, is you've seen it.
Chris Minnick: you know she's She's a fan of the podcast. She enjoys the podcast. I said, you know, it's about it's about learning, we would ask you.
Chris Penick: oh There you go. We have won.
Chris Minnick: like How do you learn things? How did you learn? ah Painting what's you know?
Chris Penick: Would you do anything different?
Chris Minnick: process.
Chris Penick: Yeah. Yeah. What would you tell a new learner now?
Chris Minnick: How would you learn? I said that.
Chris Penick: You know?
Chris Minnick: How would you if you... If you were doing it over, what would you do? What would you tell a new learner? Yes, I asked you all these very topics.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Nice, nice. and
Chris Minnick: And she said... No. I don't want to be on the podcast because it's very simple.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: You have to be. motivated. You have to be Starving, you have to have like a project or something that you have to do ah for some reason that is Mm.
Chris Minnick: like a A motivation that you... I... Cannot deny that. will make you learn the thing. And that's how you learn something.
Chris Penick: Okay, so this is slightly triggering.
Chris Minnick: And it's really... so
Chris Penick: to me.
Chris Minnick: Simple. simple
Chris Penick: Okay. Okay.
Chris Minnick: ah And so...
Chris Penick: It is slightly triggering because it's it's literally the starving artist idea. right
Chris Minnick: But... I thought about it and I was like.
Chris Penick: Hmm.
Chris Minnick: You're actually right. And. Perhaps. We need to rethink the whole premise of the podcast because like. How did I learn computer programming?
Chris Minnick: I learned it because I... had nothing else that I could do that would pay me money to do it.
Chris Penick: Yeah, but how did you learn how did you learn to make wine?
Chris Minnick: And so.
Chris Minnick: See, that's that's good that's a good counterpoint.
Chris Penick: Oh!
Chris Minnick: Yes.
Chris Penick: Okay. See? so See?
Chris Minnick: Mm -hmm.
Chris Penick: um i you know and and And one of the things we talked about was that we were going to kind of avoid that. The techie stuff. And then we just had a. We just talked about AI anyway. We talk about AI almost every time anyway.
Chris Minnick: Yep.
Chris Penick: ah Okay. So... I think there's two things though that she's bringing up. that are we're kind of wrapping into one. So... If you're starving, That's motivation.
Chris Minnick: Yes.
Chris Penick: Sure. you need You want to get paid. for something so that you can eat. if you are literally starving.
Chris Minnick: Or even if you're not literally starving, like when I first started out my business. i my my skills this was in 1997.
Chris Penick: If you're poor. but
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: My technical skills were. I could write some HTML.
Chris Penick: There you go.
Chris Minnick: Like. And that's that's it. but then someone's like hey do you think you could put some images on that page
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: And I was like, well, let me figure out how to do that.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: And then I'd do it. And they'd be like, hey, can you make it play a a song when people get to the web page that automatically starts playing?
Chris Penick: Right.
Chris Penick: Okay.
Chris Minnick: I'm like. Sure, let me figure out how to do that. hey do you think you can have like a little animated guy bouncing across the browser window some of you know and then ah and and somebody else was like hey do you think you could have like the texas flag waving in the background
Chris Penick: Let me see. Yeah.
Chris Penick: Hmm. So you made Texas people happy. There you go
Chris Minnick: I lived in Texas for a few years and, yeah, had ah a realtor, you know, now long deceased.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: ah who wanted his whole website to be. Texas themed with flags and barbed wire. And. Yeah.
Chris Penick: Okay. Well, so I think some of the starving artists. is is a myth. ah I'm going to politely...
Chris Penick: Disagree and agree with Jill because I think i think we're coming to the same idea. but from using different ways to describe it. Because she talks about, you said she said you you have to be starving.
Chris Penick: And.
Chris Minnick: She didn't literally say starving.
Chris Penick: and Okay. Okay.
Chris Minnick: She might've said.
Chris Penick: because
Chris Minnick: There's nothing else that you can do.
Chris Penick: ah Okay. That's the other thing too.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: And that's like a lot of actors and writers. We'll talk about that. You know, when you can, there's nothing else.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: that... you can do or that you feel that you can do, but more so I think even that you want to do.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: That you you want to be an actor more than...
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: you want to worry have a comfy job. you know of, I don't know, being an accountant or something like that.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: you know And some people choose the comfy. They they they go... I mean, I don't know. I'm curious. Anybody, listeners, if you are an accountant. And you chose that because you like accounting. And that was your thing. That's your art.
Chris Penick: Great. I want to know. I want i want to find those because there's there's got I figure there's got to be one.
Chris Minnick: i've known i've known I've known people who love... who love, like... you know working with the numbers balancing books figuring out
Chris Penick: number crunching. Okay.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Well, so, okay. So I think that's a big thing. I mean, i mean you I think I've had this discussion with you. but I started out as a music major. And... I...
Chris Penick: Eh. The way our... so What really knocked it out of me was my first year in college as a music major. with an unfortunate Um...
Chris Penick: i mean he's probably not even on this planet anymore so that's a morbid thought but you know this was way back in 87 so i'm assuming he was old then so you know roughly 40 years ago.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Yeah. Okay. um he I think he waited too long to retire. If he retired, I don't know. I left the school for this.
Chris Minnick: Mm -hmm.
Chris Penick: But he he would do weird things. like He may have known music, but he would give a ah test. on music theory. And he would say each question is worth five points.
Chris Penick: Okay. So then I would get five questions wrong. So he would say, okay, that's 5 times 5 is 25. Subtract that from 100 and say you got a C.
Chris Penick: 75. Ah. Where's the problem there? No, it's not 100 total points on the exam. There's 500 total points. I got an A. All right.
Chris Minnick: Mm -hmm.
Chris Penick: I got a 95%.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Missing five questions on there. i what if it's ah You know. So, yeah, he...
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: he and So it really discouraged me because you couldn't argue with him on it It'd be like, wait.
Chris Minnick: It's kind of a strange scale there.
Chris Penick: Yeah, it's a real scale.
Chris Minnick: I got a curve.
Chris Penick: So, you know, almost everyone in the class but one or two geniuses who got perfect scores. were
Chris Minnick: oh
Chris Penick: We're barely passing or failing. this course.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: And I.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Kind of got the idea that it was just what it did. It was maybe designed to weed some of us out before going through. or it's he just It was old and didn't care anymore. because um
Chris Minnick: hu
Chris Penick: You know, and so it discouraged me. So I changed my major. after the first semester. I went from
Chris Minnick: That's why oh my gosh.
Chris Penick: Yeah, I went for.
Chris Minnick: He did the whole He did a whole look to your left, look to your right.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: within three months.
Chris Penick: And... Yeah.
Chris Minnick: two of those people are going to be gone because music school is rough and tumble.
Chris Penick: they're going to be gone you're going to be one of those people Yeah.
Chris Minnick: You gotta feel the music.
Chris Penick: Yeah, and exactly. And now in hindsight, I look back to it.
Chris Minnick: You gotta breathe the music.
Chris Penick: I should have made maybe raised a bigger stink. I should have stuck it out regardless because I love music. And it took me...
Chris Minnick: ah
Chris Penick: years to come back to it. And, you know, so
Chris Minnick: wow
Chris Penick: you know, and I did private lessons off and on here and there. I mean, Yeah, I mean, I ended up. that's how i ended up in the tech world i started that i moved to brook and communications.
Chris Penick: So it was like, a goes I'll go into radio.
Chris Minnick: huh
Chris Penick: I like, you know, music. That way I can still be like a DJ or something. Well, you know, DJs are few and far between too.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: And they were just slowly being automated out too.
Chris Minnick: You need to come out here.
Chris Penick: So I was like, okay, that's a good choice. And then. Yeah.
Chris Minnick: to to Portland.
Chris Penick: In Portland? The live DJs?
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Yeah, I'll do it. This is Kenny Uri.
Chris Minnick: Everybody's a DJ. Haven't you seen on...
Chris Penick: I, I, I.
Chris Minnick: the Fortlandia.
Chris Penick: I interned. Yeah.
Chris Minnick: Okay.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: Yep.
Chris Penick: I interned at the radio station and, and I was like, yo, this is KNEU radio 101 .1 on your FM dial tune in tonight, you know? So anyway, so um I did a lot of fun stuff with that.
Chris Minnick: Yeah, yeah, totally
Chris Penick: But. But... Again, then it became now it was less, okay, I can't do my dream. which is be a musician, be a composer. write songs, be the next big pop star, whatever.
Chris Penick: So I'm going to find something practical. And then it became. business And then... Couldn't pay for school anymore because like my scholarship my scholarship was based on being in the orchestra.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: so that I was like, all right. I'm out of here and ended up in the army.
Chris Minnick: Hmm.
Chris Penick: And that's where I did my...
Chris Minnick: Bye.
Chris Penick: Text up, you see? Because, all right, so I understand doing something because you think you have to eat.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Right?
Chris Minnick: well but uh it's not necessarily doing something because you have to eat it's like learning something because you need to know that thing
Chris Penick: Right.
Chris Minnick: And whether you need to know that thing because that's your job is to do this thing.
Chris Penick: Mhm.
Chris Minnick: And somebody just came to you with like some kind of new job related thing saying this is now your thing that you need to learn.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: or You know, I guess it's like two different topics, really, because like. If I when I need to learn JavaScript. I learned it because I needed it for a project.
Chris Penick: Right
Chris Minnick: When I needed to learn ColdFusion, I learned it because I needed it for a project. When I needed ASP, when I needed to learn Java, when I needed to learn...
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: uh you know and so on and so on and so on and so on is I never learned it.
Chris Penick: Yeah. yep That's pretty much everything I've worked with.
Chris Minnick: because I was like, hey i think it'd be fun to learn angular it was like hey can you teach angular
Chris Penick: but
Chris Penick: No.
Chris Minnick: you know And then I'd be like, sure.
Chris Penick: Well, now there's there's some difference there because when I was a kid and, you know, like the home computer and the Commodore 64 came out, I was doing some of it. Hey, this is just fun.
Chris Minnick: Right, right, right.
Chris Penick: Okay. Yeah. So I get that.
Chris Minnick: Sorry.
Chris Penick: But I also get, yeah, you gotta pay the bills.
Chris Minnick: Yes.
Chris Penick: Well, and I think that's really, that's just a bigger thing altogether.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: what what Jill is talking about is when The desire to learn. Great art. Great music. Great. acting great you know anything as we consider artistic is stronger than your desire.
Chris Penick: to have something that pays the bills.
Chris Minnick: oh
Chris Penick: That's that's a different thing and that's a very important thing and I agree with her on that, but I think there's also though I think. The... this idea of saying that you need to be. have that sort of desire.
Chris Penick: or Starvingness. I know she didn't use the word starving, but... you know, I... I think it treats. Poverty or insecurity or or suffering, though I do say you have to suffer.
Chris Penick: I had a there was a guy.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Hey, my... my buddy who who majored in in musical theater at Harvard. when they didn't have a musical theater major. basically made his own.
Chris Minnick: Uh -huh.
Chris Penick: That's how Jessica, he would always tell us.
Chris Minnick: Yeah. He knows he's going to have to suffer, though.
Chris Penick: Right, exactly it Right.
Chris Minnick: Yeah, go on, please.
Chris Penick: So that's just it. He would always tell us like when we were doing shows together. So I i i managed to stay with music. Bye. with the community you know i do community theater and i Hey, at one point, you know, when I wasn't this round, I was I was Seymour Crelborn and, you know, in Little Shop of Horrors.
Chris Penick: And I've done.
Chris Minnick: ah
Chris Penick: you know lots of different shows here and actually played the leading man back when i had the leading man physique um you know
Chris Minnick: You still got it.
Chris Penick: It.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Chris Minnick: Sure.
Chris Penick: There you go. So we're're we're going cruising sometime too, just to show off. We'll have to do it there. Walk me down Main Street.
Chris Minnick: What? What?
Chris Penick: In Portland, whatever whatever, we'll go.
Chris Minnick: Oh, okay.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Yeah, just.
Chris Minnick: Main Street. Yep.
Chris Penick: we'll We'll go down Main Street and just, you know. that everybody admires
Chris Minnick: What are you talking about? Okay, yep, go on.
Chris Penick: I don't know. I don't know.
Chris Minnick: Okay, very good.
Chris Penick: I'm not used to anybody saying I got it anymore. I don't have it anymore. it did yeah like courty
Chris Minnick: I'm just... Come on.
Chris Penick: yeah, but
Chris Minnick: What are friends for, right?
Chris Penick: but there you go exactly to to to artificially inflate your ego right that's But... I... you know, he would always say, you got to suffer for your art.
Chris Penick: He would say this, and I say the learning is in the suffering. and i you know i so i But I think that maybe I should be careful saying that because... It. It treats. suffering as proof of artistic or intellectual integrity
Chris Minnick: Well, no, I don't know if it goes like that way, too. I mean, you wouldn't like say, you know, the more you suffer, the more artistic you are.
Chris Penick: No, you're right.
Chris Minnick: Um...
Chris Penick: You're right.
Chris Minnick: Because otherwise, I know a really quick way to get you know get really good at some painting.
Chris Penick: Okay. Alright. No.
Chris Minnick: like I could. you know.
Chris Penick: They could just starve
Chris Minnick: Whatever. like you know
Chris Penick: Yeah. Well, okay.
Chris Minnick: Pliers and fingernails, maybe, you know would be good.
Chris Penick: ooh ooh oh That's performance art. There you go. Ha ha! So... Bye. but.. I fear this attitude, though. um because it does make me worry that it could like Like my daughter, you know she's just starting.
Chris Penick: where Jill's already gone before. And you know I keep telling... you My daughter has, she's got a little website there, so. um And oh, but probably I should plug that.
Chris Penick: She's sponsoring us now. Maybe I'll do that in a moment.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: There you go. Right. But, you know, she says on her website that she's available for commissions. um She's actually sold a piece back when she was in high school.
Chris Minnick: hu
Chris Minnick: Sweet.
Chris Penick: And. But. I think that this attitude that artists... It's sort of. You got to be careful that you're not romanticizing the hardship. that you're not.
Chris Penick: because i could also sort of
Chris Minnick: Totally. Totally.
Chris Penick: it'll It'll lead people to think that, you know... It sort of normalizes the idea. Like people come to her. have come to her and said, okay. yeah I want to commission a piece of art. And then they're like, you know, here's 25 bucks.
Chris Minnick: How much do you want to suffer for? Yeah.
Chris Penick: Yeah. Here's 25 bucks.
Chris Minnick: ah
Chris Penick: Like it normalizes low pay.
Chris Minnick: I'm gonna make you suffer so much.
Chris Penick: Right. Or it normalizes.
Chris Minnick: This this is gonna be the best painting ever.
Chris Penick: Oh, if I have one more person, you know, I work as if I do voiceover. I work as an actor and I have people come to me all the time.
Chris Minnick: a a
Chris Penick: Hey, I want you in my show. um You know, community theater is just it. It's exposure. Community theater, you don't get paid, right?
Chris Minnick: um
Chris Penick: But I've i've been asked to do some things that are slowly semi -professional.
Chris Minnick: Oh, yeah, totally exposure.
Chris Penick: I did a student, my one MD.
Chris Minnick: There will be exposure.
Chris Penick: IMDB credit. My one IMTB credit is for a student film.
Chris Minnick: hu
Chris Penick: And.
Chris Minnick: Yeah
Chris Penick: That student... They said, oh, you'll be paid and we'll provide lunch. Okay.
Chris Minnick: wow
Chris Penick: Love the student, but I just have to here's the lunch ready The lunch was he went and bought a foot -long sandwich and split it between me and the other actor
Chris Minnick: That's pretty good. I don't know.
Chris Penick: Yeah, i got i got I got a six -inch Subway sandwich.
Chris Minnick: I mean. It's more than I've ever gotten paid for an acting gig.
Chris Penick: You know, I use i worked with an acoustic band here.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: We would play at, like, farmer's markets.
Chris Minnick: Uh huh.
Chris Penick: And we got... I've got a total When you split it between us, we we got $9 each at the end of the day. So, you know, I mean This is what I'm saying. is So...
Chris Penick: I got. I've seen Jill's work. I can't afford Jill's work.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Her her work is awesome. and every penny that she gets she deserves.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: And if you haven't seen Jill's work, go look at Jill's work.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: All right.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: So, all right. Sponsored by. by by Jill as well.
Chris Minnick: Jill McVears.
Chris Penick: ah
Chris Minnick: dot com.
Chris Penick: mcverish but except except jillmcverish .com however um we don't want her to give us money either because she needs every penny too she should that should go to hers right so like librarians librarians spots we're sponsored by librarians but we don't want their money.
Chris Minnick: Exactly, of course. course
Chris Penick: There you go.
Chris Minnick: But i think I think we're maybe, you know... The suffering... But I think we're drifting because...
Chris Penick: Mhm.
Chris Minnick: I... You know, there is that thing that we had as kids like when i was like 11 years old. I got obsessed with electronics.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: And it was because I had this little Radio Shack kit, you know, and you could wire things together with the little spring loaded things in the wires and you could like put in the trend.
Chris Penick: Oh yeah. Good. Just flip it apart. Yep. I have to...
Chris Minnick: uh the ah the you know, the transistors and the capacitors and hook them together.
Chris Penick: It's probably on a shelf over here somewhere.
Chris Minnick: And I started making, I bought, I would buy breadboard and make circuits and a soldering iron and start putting things together.
Chris Penick: Oh yeah!
Chris Minnick: I made a little like electronic keyboard. like when I was in seventh grade for science fair. You know, and it was like.
Chris Penick: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Minnick: You know, it had like the, you know.
Chris Penick: You mean like musical?
Chris Minnick: you know the
Chris Penick: Or do you mean like...
Chris Minnick: Yeah. With little spring loaded keys.
Chris Penick: Yeah, yeah. Little synthesizer, yeah.
Chris Minnick: And I could play like, you know, little songs on it and like adjust the sounds by like adjusting the resistance and whatnot.
Chris Penick: So...
Chris Minnick: Wee!
Chris Penick: Bye.
Chris Minnick: You know?
Chris Penick: Okay, so again, I think the line here...
Chris Minnick: But I was obsessed.
Chris Penick: there's There's a line between... Obsession. vocation profession
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Passion. and If you can blend all those, hey, happy is the person who can blend all that.
Chris Minnick: But that's...
Chris Penick: you know,
Chris Minnick: I mean, that's kind of what I'm talking about is kind of a way, a thing where it's like. I had to, and it was the same with when I was learning to like. about like um the the early proto -internet, you know, and...
Chris Penick: Yeah. Oh, I had to.
Chris Minnick: And. I...
Chris Penick: This was cool. This was the thing man
Chris Minnick: I programmed my own modem you know in assembly language because it's just what I had to do.
Chris Penick: Oh yeah.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: And.
Chris Penick: okay or why i had to like i was taking you know in high school i had to take extra classes over the summer because during the regular school year i had three different music classes
Chris Minnick: you know Hmm. Yeah.
Chris Penick: you know i had choir i had i had a a different choir and then i had the orchestra
Chris Minnick: Right.
Chris Penick: So I had the show choir, I had the regular choir and orchestra. So half my day was taken up doing music.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: And.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Because I had to. and then explain to my parents that
Chris Minnick: You had to.
Chris Penick: Right, but... That doesn't mean...
Chris Minnick: But then...
Chris Penick: I think we're arguing about... though that
Chris Minnick: I don't think we're
Chris Penick: That the motivation was there but
Chris Minnick: it's like yeah Yeah.
Chris Penick: motivation versus You gotta eat. Okay.
Chris Minnick: Right.
Chris Penick: And this is a this show isn't about...
Chris Minnick: And then the.
Chris Penick: learning something because you got to eat. This is learning something because you have that motivation or desire already to learn that thing.
Chris Minnick: No.
Chris Minnick: Right.
Chris Penick: You know. So... I would still love to hear. from Joe. I mean, where was that? Where did that desire come from? Why? Why was art so important to her?
Chris Minnick: I would love to have her on the show, too, and perhaps someday we will get her.
Chris Penick: if she But no pressure.
Chris Minnick: And maybe, maybe I've gotten what she said completely wrong, and she will be on here next week to correct the record.
Chris Penick: DeGrasse.
Chris Minnick: And so, you know.
Chris Penick: i still i still want to put her and my daughter samantha on at the same time Somebody who's been through it.
Chris Minnick: well
Chris Minnick: That'd be great. Oh my gosh, that'd be so
Chris Penick: and somebody started it.
Chris Minnick: That'd be awesome. Yeah.
Chris Penick: and And, you know, because I... I... hesitated. I specifically... When my daughter was saying she wanted to go to art school and she went to an art magnet school in high school, I specifically did not.
Chris Minnick: Mm -hmm.
Chris Penick: Tell her oh, no no. No, you should go take something practical. You should go
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: You know, go study accounting. Sorry, accountants, I keep picking on you.
Chris Minnick: And...
Chris Penick: I mean, we must admit accounting is practical, even if you enjoy it, even if it's fun.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: you know but something that'll get you a job, something that'll help you. pay a mortgage one day and all that.
Chris Minnick: Mm -hmm.
Chris Penick: And I call me a hopeless. utopian romantic. I would love to live in a world where I didn't have to do that.
Chris Minnick: Hopeless from it.
Chris Penick: So I told her No, do what you...
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Do what you love to do. So you love art. you have to do art she she's always drawing always painting always
Chris Minnick: huh Yeah, that's awesome.
Chris Penick: coming up with projects making costumes working with all kinds of things she's always doing something creative But it's it's in her her veins. She has to do it.
Chris Minnick: Mm -hmm
Chris Penick: Okay. We're going into debt. for her to do it. And I told her, I said, We're gonna have to figure out how.
Chris Minnick: You better feel guilty.
Chris Penick: We can... No, no, I'm trying not to I you know, but I do want her to understand, you know, this is serious money that when you graduate
Chris Minnick: Yes.
Chris Minnick: And uh...
Chris Minnick: Mm hmm.
Chris Penick: you're already in debt. With student loan, that's a whole nother topic we we need to have here.
Chris Minnick: oh Golly, yeah.
Chris Penick: You know, see, imagine again, imagine a country where if you showed the talent. If you showed. The skill, we just put you in the school. We put you with other people who have that talent and you put these great minds together.
Chris Minnick: They exist in another world. Yes.
Chris Penick: You know? I mean.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: that You know, it's it's there's there's a little bit of a... You know that that's truly kind of a meritocracy then in the sense of you show the skill you show the talent you can you know talk to the professors but you know they interview you and use they see your work you have a portfolio and then they take you into the school you don't have to pay anything
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: you know Maybe it's a little bit like our old apprenticeship type.
Chris Minnick: It's... called maybe Europe.
Chris Penick: I do. Yeah. I know. that's That's what I was trying to get to without getting to.
Chris Minnick: Yeah. Hey!
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: Yes.
Chris Penick: So... I was, I mean, I kept telling her, I said, maybe we should just move to Europe, you know? I can't convince my wife, though, so. Oh, well, then that'd make this podcast harder to do too.
Chris Minnick: yeah
Chris Penick: You know, then the time sounds really gonna be
Chris Minnick: Nah, we could do it.
Chris Penick: Yeah. we can do just ah i'll be I'll be going to sleep when you're getting up, and we'll but do it that way.
Chris Minnick: we manage.
Chris Minnick: That's all right. Yeah.
Chris Penick: Yeah, no biggie.
Chris Minnick: We'll figure it out.
Chris Penick: Okay, so... All right, I think... Let me see if I can pull this all together and get us back onto a little track.
Chris Minnick: Alright.
Chris Penick: All right, I'm goingnna i'm going to summarize some things. I think... Jill's answer is a great answer as to you know how she learned this because she had to. All right. And I think that's true. like But I... think that that's true of Many skills.
Chris Penick: Many...
Chris Minnick: Yep.
Chris Penick: things we want to learn. I still learn and actively learn music and I have little tutorials on music theory and all that.
Chris Minnick: Yep.
Chris Penick: And Duolingo again. There you go. Shout out again, Duolingo. Come on, if you don't sponsor us already, I do do your music track on Duolingo.
Chris Minnick: Sure. Yes, our sponsors, yes.
Chris Penick: So sponsors, you know, make sure you, I think at this point you always, I mean, a couple pennies, right?
Chris Minnick: Yeah. The price keeps going up, too.
Chris Penick: Oh. The price keeps going up.
Chris Minnick: Like our our sponsorships are kind of like. we're kind of like pretty full up right now but you know if you come to us like soon.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: Come soon come soon.
Chris Minnick: like it might still be within your advertising budget for you know whatever.
Chris Penick: I mean you can get in on the ground floor There you go. but I do that.
Chris Minnick: Q4 you know
Chris Penick: Because I have to. I can't, I can't go.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: A day without. listening making, singing,
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: i whistle all the time to the point that i annoy people and they're just tunes that i make up
Chris Minnick: i
Chris Penick: You know, I cannot.
Chris Minnick: heard you earlier when i was going upstairs like to get some more wine yeah
Chris Penick: ah Yeah, when we when oh when we were switching yeah over
Chris Minnick: I left my headphones in, like humming.
Chris Penick: And you heard me go. Yeah.
Chris Minnick: i do the same thing it annoys the hell out of jill yes
Chris Penick: Yeah, I mean... I can't. I can't live without music and you know i have actually i have gear acquisition syndrome i have you know too many keyboards and guitars and all that.
Chris Minnick: h
Chris Penick: but I didn't make it my profession. now
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: So then, so that Does that mean I want it any less? Ooh.
Chris Minnick: Maybe.
Chris Penick: You think so? You think so?
Chris Minnick: Yeah. maybe so i mean you know i
Chris Penick: Hmm.
Chris Minnick: I like. I think all the time, like, you know, if i if I didn't have to do... this then I could do the thing I really want to do.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: And, you know. My brother. Who? has been a musician his entire life.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: he it was never even a question he never even got a job that wasn't in music and he's like Steadfastly refused to get a job that wasn't doing music in some way and you know it has
Chris Penick: Okay.
Chris Minnick: led to him not being perhaps as successful as other people maybe but in terms of you know, doing what the thing is that he feels is the thing. that he needs to do.
Chris Minnick: He's done it. And to me.
Chris Penick: Okay.
Chris Minnick: That is. quite an amazing accomplishment and I am like
Chris Penick: Oh absolutely.
Chris Minnick: I always admire that he has actually...
Chris Penick: and
Chris Minnick: done this and you know
Chris Penick: Okay. All right. Okay. I don't want to diminish your brother's.
Chris Minnick: No. I haven't seen this.
Chris Penick: accomplishment. But. I think that there's sort of this... It sounds to me, though, I think as a society. And I'm going to. i here's Here's my clash with Jill a little bit on idea, is that I think as a society...
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: the idea of like an artist or a musician with a day job. Or some sort of, you know... partner or family help or whatever somehow, or does commercial work.
Chris Penick: somehow makes them less. authentic.
Chris Penick: that you know Somebody who does...
Chris Minnick: So you disagree with the idea that someone who manages to hold a job. can also be a serious artist.
Chris Penick: i i I think they can be. I think I disagree with the idea.
Chris Minnick: You think, guys yes, yes.
Chris Penick: Yes, I think, I think. that just because I... Don't. hold a job in music doesn't make my desire any less or my
Chris Minnick: Yep.
Chris Penick: authenticity of creating i've written songs i've i had a buddy he and i used to do open mic nights all the time
Chris Minnick: Yep.
Chris Minnick: Yep.
Chris Penick: we we actually got kind of popular at a few of them where you know, people wanted to hear stuff that we had done written.
Chris Minnick: Yeah.
Chris Penick: written um I don't think it makes my artistic desire any less authentic.
Chris Minnick: I love this as a topic for... a future podcast because we are running up against the time limit here And this is fantastic.
Chris Penick: Yeah, there you go. Look at me. Yep.
Chris Minnick: This is... the showdown that we need to have.
Chris Penick: Mm hmm.
Chris Minnick: I. Because, yes.
Chris Penick: Mmm.
Chris Minnick: I... Some may see Chris Penick as a hobbyist.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: Some may see. him as Nice. of an artist than someone who doesn't manage to hold down the kinds of responsibilities that he has.
Chris Penick: Yeah.
Chris Minnick: What is your opinion? Leave us comments, like, subscribe, follow.
Chris Penick: Yeah. Yeah, what do you think? does do you How much do you have to suffer for your art, maybe? Do you really have to be...
Chris Minnick: I love this topic. Yes.
Chris Penick: Yes. Yeah. So how much do you have to suffer for the skill you want to learn?
Chris Minnick: And maybe seeing this. will entice Jill to appear on our podcast.
Chris Penick: Ooh. There you go. I love it I love it.
Chris Minnick: And stay tuned. for the next time. when we will discuss all this and much more on the Moving Towards Better podcast.
Chris Penick: Absolutely.
Chris Penick: and much more. Podcast.
Chris Minnick: Thank you very much.
Chris Penick: Yay! Like and subscribe.
Chris Minnick: All right. Yes.
Chris Penick: Don't forget to like and subscribe. arrows
