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Episode 10: Helping Undergrads Survive and Thrive in Music Ed
35 Plays28 days ago
What does it really take to prepare future music teachers for today’s classroom?
In this episode, Aaron talks with Dr. Nicki Toliver and Chris Thompson from Wartburg College’s Music Education program about how they’re equipping undergrads to succeed in the real world of teaching.
Topics include:
- Field experiences that actually prepare students
- Helping undergrads discover their teaching “fit”
- Honest advice about student teaching, burnout, and job searching
- The power of mentorship and relationship-building
Whether you're a college student, cooperating teacher, or reflecting on your early years, this conversation is packed with insight, encouragement, and practical takeaways for anyone in music education.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:06
Speaker
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Play Now, Play for Life, a podcast for music educators. I'm your host, Aaron Hansen. I'm a former band director and general music teacher 29 years and now a part of the West Music team.
00:00:22
Speaker
Every episode, we sit down and chat with experts in music education to learn about their tricks of the trade and other topics in music education.
Guest Backgrounds at Warburg College
00:00:32
Speaker
And today is a great day to be part of this podcast because we have two special guests. We have Dr. Nikki Tolliver from Warburg College, and she's going to talk more about her position. And we have Chris Thompson,
00:00:47
Speaker
also connected with Warburg College. And i have to say, this is an especially special but podcast for me because I have personal connections to both these people. Chris was my very first principal as a teacher at Janesville schools many years ago.
00:01:07
Speaker
So we go way back and now ah I'll let her talk about her position. and And Nikki and I got to work together at Warburg when I was doing the bell choir at Warburg and we got to do Christmas with Warburg together. And plus we worked with with student teachers together and Chris and I were so there are a lot of connections in this podcast.
00:01:30
Speaker
So welcome to you both. It's so great to have both of you here. And I want to start with, could you just tell, we always like to get to know our guests a little bit.
00:01:41
Speaker
So just a little bit about your professional background. And if you have, Chris is in a slightly different position. She wasn't a music teacher, but any music background you might have.
00:01:55
Speaker
because I know you and I talked about that a little bit. So Chris, if you want to start with that. Absolutely. um Hi, everyone. This first time in my 74 years I've ever done a podcast. So I'm kind of excited about this.
00:02:09
Speaker
um I started my career in New Hartford, Iowa, 20 years in the classroom. I taught High school history, fourth grade, ah first, second, and third grade in a unit situation. I was a cheerleading coach.
00:02:25
Speaker
I did not do the cartwheels. And um I also was a class sponsor, you know, small schools. Got my administrative degree from UNI and i and went was hired at Janesville. 20 years there as principal, coach.
00:02:42
Speaker
K-6, PK-6, PK-8, PK-12, athletic director, taught math for two years, taught reading for a year. um Just a
Career Paths to Warburg College
00:02:52
Speaker
lot of things because, again, small schools.
00:02:55
Speaker
I retired from there in 2012. And Scott Munnerfeering, Dr. Munnerfeering from the Wartburg faculty, I'd spoken in classes for him before. And he said, how about coming to work for Wartburg? And I'm like, doing what? I don't do music.
00:03:10
Speaker
And he said, no, you can step in and be our principal when we observe student teachers. And I thought, wow, what a great way to stay active in a profession I love and to also see what's going on in education now.
00:03:26
Speaker
so In fall of 2013, I started working with Dr. Tolliver and Dr. Munnerfeering in the music department. And I get to go out every fall and do a couple of observations on every music student teacher at Wartburg.
00:03:43
Speaker
um My music background, well, I am one heck of a percussionist. I did not. Well, I could carry a tune if someone was right next to me singing.
00:03:56
Speaker
um But i I will have to just toot my own horn that I can play the drums pretty
Warburg College's Education Approach
00:04:03
Speaker
dang good. Well, i know you I know your capabilities because I've seen you in my classroom observing student teachers and you are very capable of jumping in. and I do dance with the kids. Yes, I should have said that. Yes, you do.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yes, you do. So, all right, Nikki, give us your whole background um Wow, well, mine will pale in comparison to my amazing colleague, for sure. ah but But it's so good to be with you today. And thank you for the invitation, Erin, to join you. This is just so exciting.
00:04:38
Speaker
um So I started my career in southern Minnesota um as a graduate of Concordia College in Moorhead. And so thought that I would you know enter one of the wonderful suburbs of Minneapolis as a choral educator and just stay there the rest of my life. But um but that the you know the universe had a different plan for me.
00:04:57
Speaker
um And so I taught in Minnesota for two years. And my whole career has been mostly 9 through 12 or 7 through 12 vocal music. um And so i don't have the general music experience anymore.
00:05:10
Speaker
in my public school career, but I have the great pleasure of now teaching methods in that, and you, Mr. Hansen, have been an amazing mentor for me and being able to pass on what I really need to share with my students. So thanks for
Importance of Field Experiences
00:05:22
Speaker
being part of their development.
00:05:23
Speaker
um But I taught in Minnesota for two years in the public schools, and both in Lesseur and St. Peter, and then felt a calling to um continue my education in a grad school level. So I um did my master's at Arizona State University,
00:05:39
Speaker
And from there was recruited to open up two new schools in the Las of Vegas, ah which is Clark County, ah Clark County School District in Las Vegas and Henderson, Nevada, which was never part of the plan. I didn't even know they had schools there.
00:05:52
Speaker
um and And what a cool cultural experience to be a professional educator in ah in a city that is just that um not only diverse, but transient and so rich with culture and so many different levels.
00:06:07
Speaker
um It was an amazing experience. and um ah But after spending seven years in that school district, um I felt a calling to help to prepare teachers for the classroom. I had been a cooperating teacher at that point two times and just felt like the teachers that were coming to me were um underdeveloped and under supported.
00:06:27
Speaker
um So I just sort of felt this calling that maybe that could be part of my next step um as an educator. And so to do that, I had to um ah get another degree. So I moved my husband all the way up from Las Vegas as the youngest snowbirds probably ever, um but moved that, left that beautiful area and moved him to North Dakota.
00:06:48
Speaker
and did my doctoral work at North Dakota State University. And was it a great experience there as well in choral conducting um and continued um in the teaching world there, but ah found myself ah starting to journey south again. So we find ourselves after um after a few years of teaching in the systems in Minnesota again, finding ourselves here in Iowa.
00:07:13
Speaker
So this is my 11th year at Warburg College. um My two main hats, and you know, as as educators, we have many, many responsibilities um and many, many different hats. But my two primary hats are centered around directing two of our five choirs.
00:07:29
Speaker
and and the new core coordinator of the music education program with um my colleague, Scott Montefaring, who has also already been mentioned by um my my colleague, Chris Thompson. So we just have, the three of us have have so much fun together helping our teachers get ready for the classroom.
Experiential Learning in Music Education
00:07:44
Speaker
And that's where we've settled now.
00:07:45
Speaker
Well, and just so everybody, listeners that are listening, if you don't know Warburg College, it is a Lutheran-based college. And I'll let Nikki talk to that just a little bit more in a second.
00:07:56
Speaker
But just also so you know, if you're watching the podcast today, We are wearing the Warburg colors because the Warburg colors are orange and black. So we have between the three of us covered the oranges and the blacks.
00:08:10
Speaker
ah we're We're representing. So, but Nikki, just really quickly, what kind of makes a difference ah but of a Lutheran based college?
00:08:21
Speaker
I mean, you're a private college. You're not, you know, university. Just a little bit about that difference. Yeah, thank you. I think um i think the main difference is is the focus on liberal arts. So a very global, even though we're in you even though Professor Thompson and I work with professional training ah for pre-service teachers, the overall experience is really a liberal arts experience. So I kind of compare it to, to use a Lutheran reference, to kind of compare it to you know, the Scandinavian heritage of a smorgasbord, where everyone brings a little piece to put on the table, right? And you have many different things from different families and and even different mini cultures within that.
00:08:59
Speaker
it That's sort of the learning experience here is you have, you just get a little, you get a little piece of everything, um which is really, I think, a global experience for our students. But then you also get to sort of specialize in those last couple of years as you get, you know, into your um specific studies and into your major a little further and and definitely into some of the professional training that we provide at the college.
00:09:20
Speaker
um Our students, ah neither our students nor our faculty have to be Lutheran um or even Christian to attend or our college, but it was born out of the Lutheran mission of providing learning experiences in the early, early 19th, sorry, mid to late 19th century for um preachers and teachers.
00:09:41
Speaker
And so part of their mission was to provide a place where preachers could be trained, Lutheran pastors and also teachers, um whether that's in in a school setting that's connected to the church or or even moving into public school at that time. So um that preacher-teacher connection, I think, is important. And we try to hold on to that a little bit.
00:09:58
Speaker
um Certainly with Warburg Seminary has helped to take over ah portion of that. but um But our students definitely have a a um very global experience as far as a large umbrella of um of of training and learning experiences.
00:10:14
Speaker
um I think that also provide that so setting allows us to really focus on experiential learning opportunities. So for example, and specifically in in our music education program, um our students ah have a chance to experience five or six field opportunities, whereas I know in my training, I only had three.
00:10:36
Speaker
And some of our sibling schools only provide two or three. So we're really blessed to provide almost double um opportunities to be in Mr. Hansen's classroom and learn more about, you know, with real children, learn more about what they're um what they're doing and how they can be successful. And um that that just that additional training that's provided through experience that we can't, you know, pull from a textbook or from a lecture.
00:10:58
Speaker
Well, and I just, speaking from my personal experience, I mean, having been employed it at Warburg in years past, I mean, the music program
Challenges and Growth in Teaching Careers
00:11:08
Speaker
is very strong. It's very well known. yeah And I was proud to be part of that when I was there. i have so many wonderful memories from being there and working with those students and things.
00:11:20
Speaker
Okay, ladies, so let's get into it. So talking about undergraduates and preparing student teachers and all that sort of things. And Nikki, I think you probably want to start with this question and then I'll get to Chris. But how how does Warper go about preparing undergraduates for their student teaching experience or even just just observing just those placements and those kind of things? what what What do you do to help them prepare for that?
00:11:54
Speaker
um That's a great kickoff question. So thank you for that, Erin. I would say the primary ah preparation is one that I've already mentioned, actually, what we call the field experience. And so we provide an opportunity connected to a classroom experience.
00:12:08
Speaker
We provide an opportunity for our students to leave our campus and be in a public school setting with a master educator and real children of all ages. um it's And we try to provide a variety K through 12, because as you know well, the licensure in our state, in the state of Iowa, is K through 12 everything in music education. And when I say everything...
00:12:30
Speaker
I mean, general music, band, choir, orchestra. And so it's a very big box to fill. We have a large toolbox to fill um and we get creative in how we do that. But we also, to balance that, want our future teachers to have an opportunity to specialize a little bit.
00:12:47
Speaker
um So we do provide a track option for them as they get into their third into their third year. But um ah field experience, I think, is the number one opportunity. And we really... encourage our students as soon as they feel ready um to get, you know, to step out of the observation opportunity, which is maybe the first visit or two, and really, you know, be proactive about getting involved in the classroom. So in a general music classroom, that might be moving from and a chair that's observing on the outside of the classroom to joining the circle and being a participant within the circle with students.
00:13:21
Speaker
And in a secondary situation, it might be asking if they are, if it's possible for the student um learner to be able to warm up the choir or to run a sectional or to teach a voice lesson or to teach an instrumental lesson, something of that nature. But that, again, that experiential learning, I mean, we can talk about it all day long, but until they can take those tools and put them into practice, even the smallest way, it's um it's hard for them to imagine themselves, you know, in that role sometimes.
00:13:48
Speaker
So field experience is number one. Well, and I think You've touched on such a good point because Chris and I were talking about this the other day because we chat before these podcasts happen. But I was saying, you know, even with student teachers, I know they want to take notes.
00:14:05
Speaker
I know they want to sit and observe and take get observation. But to me, the number one thing is come down and get involved. yeah Just get involved.
00:14:16
Speaker
And, you know, with student teachers, that's a different scenario because they want to get to know the kids. So it's like the only way you're going to get to know the kids is coming down and getting involved. But even with field experience, I mean, when they come in, yes, I know you want to type notes on your laptop. I know you want to do that.
00:14:33
Speaker
and And you should. i mean, that that's important, too, to take those notes home. But but come down and be in the lesson. And you're going to get more out of it than just doing notes.
00:14:45
Speaker
So I'm really glad you brought that up. Well, and Mr. Hanson, as a former general music specialist, you also know that experience is always first. um I mean, the the training that you've had in in in the ORF methodology you know
Influence of Teaching Experiences on Careers
00:14:58
Speaker
promotes experience over labels or terms or anything like that. So Like I said, we can talk about this in a textbook all day long, but until they can have the experience, even if they're not taking notes, they'll remember the experience. They'll remember how it made them feel.
00:15:11
Speaker
They'll remember what they did. Like that's a very memorable moment. And and even if they don't have notes, they'll that that experience is just essential. Well, and as you say that, it's the same for adult learners, because when I go to org workshops, there are certain, there are some people that just want, I just want the notes and I want to sit here and I want to write and I get it because they want to get everything out of this lesson.
00:15:33
Speaker
But yeah. you get more if you just, there are some presenters that say ah you'll get the notes at the end because you're just going to experience the lesson. So true.
00:15:44
Speaker
And then you get the notes. And for some people that's really hard because they're like, give me the notes. I can't handle this. Give me the notes. But but anyway, um Chris, what would you add on to that? And then what would you say as being an an administrator? Cause you were an administrator for many years.
00:16:02
Speaker
What's your perspective on how, student teacher preparation has has either improved or not improved over the years. I think you i think we agreed it improved.
00:16:14
Speaker
Oh, tremendously. Thanks, Erinette. And you and I kind of hit on this the other day too. I think the biggest thing that I've seen when I started in my own classroom at New Hartford, um these poor kids came to me They had not had one one field experience.
00:16:35
Speaker
And out of all my student teachers in 20 years, i had to actually say three of these are not ready to. they're They're just not ready to be teachers.
00:16:46
Speaker
And I think what happened, that what I saw happen when I got to Janesville and Wartburg was a prime example because, um, some previous and I don't know, Dr. T, were you, you knew Dr. Bodensteiner or Sue Sherwood? They were both in the ed department.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah. Just my first year here. and we were just barely crossed paths. Yes. But those two just started saying, we got to do something different here. You cannot pay this kind of money to come to this wonderful college and then get to May of your senior year and be told you're, I don't think you should be a teacher.
00:17:23
Speaker
And so they started implementing, as you're talking about, Nikki, all of these field experiences and saying, go out, get in classrooms and find out what it's like. And wow, we noticed such a change at Janesville. and And to Wartburg's credit, we noticed it coming from Wartburg first.
00:17:41
Speaker
And then, yes, we had you and I jump on. We always used to get a few from Dubuque. It's And so but the change was coming from Wordberg. And that's what it was. Get the kids into the classroom sooner. And I really think that's been a positive.
00:17:57
Speaker
Do you notice that through field experiences, are there some students that find this isn't for me or? or oh, I thought I was going to be a high school teacher, but maybe now I want to be a middle school teacher or now I want to be an elementary teacher or what have you. Do you see a lot of that?
00:18:19
Speaker
Yes. we I mean, both. Yes, for sure. i think um the greatest, ah regarding field experiences, I think the greatest thing we've added um is a full 25 hour placement in their first year.
00:18:34
Speaker
And I think that is the key because we want them to find their calling, um you know, teaching education in any field area, grade level, anything should never be like a plan B. It should never be this, you know, if I fall back, you know, something to fall back on.
00:18:48
Speaker
i mean, it really, we want it to be their full 100% calling and that may change in their lifetime, but at least at that moment that, that that's what they're committed to do. So, um You know, we do lose a few in that first year, sometimes it's even in their third semester, but
Adapting to Diverse Teaching Environments
00:19:02
Speaker
I actually celebrate those moments because it's not not that I want to lose them from our from our area, but that means that they have, the student has found a way to confirm what their calling really is.
00:19:15
Speaker
And so... If that happens in first year, that's wonderful. That's confidence. That is focus. That is, um they know that they're making the most of their investment. But if it's not and they need to change their major, it's much better for them to do that in their first or second year than in their last year.
00:19:31
Speaker
Exactly. um Not only financially, but just, you you know, time, like the clock is ticking too. I mean, we want to get into our professional life. And so um I think that's just been a really, ah an important element of,
00:19:44
Speaker
that discovery process for them. I mean, really, it's ridiculously unfair that we ask 18 year olds to make a 40 year commitment to something that they're going to you know, and it's just amazing that we even ask them to do that.
00:19:55
Speaker
ah in ah And I'm speaking about when they come in as an undergrad in their first year, you're asking them, what do you want to do for the rest of your life? um That's pretty, that's pretty, and um that's a big ask. And so
Mentorship's Role in Teacher Development
00:20:05
Speaker
they should never feel shame in changing their major.
00:20:08
Speaker
And certainly if they're not called to education, we would want to encourage them to find what they are called to do. And I would tag onto that. My experience in the music department has been, I've enjoyed it because i get to work with people who, like Nikki and Scott, who know music.
00:20:27
Speaker
that that's That's what they do and they're fabulous at it. So I can draw on that and take what they've taught me and go into a classroom. And one of the things I've learned is that, well, besides Solfege, which I had no idea what that
00:20:44
Speaker
I also how kids in music have had these wonderful field experiences. And I just last year, I've done field experience here. I've done this here. I've done that here. And I want to work with high school kids. I cannot deal with little kids. I am not going to deal with little kids.
00:21:01
Speaker
And OK, fine. But, you know, we're going to get you through these experiences. What do you think at the end? I love working with the little ones. So it's good to have all those field experiences, but the bottom line comes and until you jump in and do it. And and I think that's what Wartburg has done with, like Nikki said, you know, we we get them at, they do a K-3 or they do a 7-8 or a high school because of the endorsement because of the K-12. So I just think that's so wonderful because
00:21:33
Speaker
Those kids and and Nikki echoing echoing you, even at 20 and 21, it's hard to say for the rest of my life, I am going to teach seventh and eighth grade instrumental music.
00:21:45
Speaker
yeah You know, so, yes, I do think that that has been a real plus that Ortberg has really picked up on all the field experience levels. Well, and I think it's really important you just said that because, and I've shared this with Nikki in the past and probably you too, Chris, but you know, you get these kids that come in and observe and you just ask
Balancing Personal Life with Teaching
00:22:08
Speaker
them, what do you think you ah you're going to teach? Well, they're always, oh, high school choir, high school band.
00:22:14
Speaker
That's their only, that's it. And then they they come in and get immersed in the elementary world and think, I don't know. I think maybe this is where I want to be because you're teaching. They don't think we're teaching stuff down there.
00:22:29
Speaker
So now it's like, oh, you're teaching all these concepts. You're teaching all these things that get kids started. Well, yeah, I know that. And all of a sudden their mind just changes. Like i that maybe I want to be here. Yep.
00:22:45
Speaker
And establish that. So I'm glad to hear both of you say that. Well, if I can expand on that just for a second to Erin, my other thought was, you know, when you think about the most relatable and recent experience they have when they come to their undergrad is an ensemble.
00:23:03
Speaker
And so it kind of makes sense that they would gravitate towards that first, because even though they likely were successful in an ensemble because of their general music experience,
00:23:15
Speaker
They just probably don't connect that or remember that vividly because it was, you know, six years ago. Right. Right. The time when they came to us. um So I try to remember that. But then I also know that because those high school ensemble experiences are so transforming when they're when they're, you know, when they're part of a really dynamic and good program.
00:23:36
Speaker
They I think they come to music education thinking they're going to major in choir or band. I mean, really at the base bottom, I don't know that they even think in that first semester that they're actually going to be a teacher. They just know that they want to be the teacher that stood in front of them and and major in choir or band or orchestra.
00:23:58
Speaker
um And keeping those two things in mind for me helps me to sort of stay grounded and in what and where they are at the moment. And then I can sort of help them blossom from there, hopefully. That's good point. Well, and it's a very different, those are two very different things roles.
00:24:15
Speaker
Because if you're a choir band director, you're conducting, you're directing, that's your job. And, and that's very important. Your general music teacher, it's totally different. I mean, you're, yeah, you're conducting whatever, but I mean, you're just leading and guiding and it's, it's such a different dynamic, but they're both so important.
00:24:40
Speaker
So yeah I totally agree. i I'm glad you brought that point up because that makes a lot of sense that they come out of their high school experience. And so that's what's freshest in their mind.
00:24:52
Speaker
That is a good point. Yes. And I even, i really make it a point with second years to talk about the difference in philosophy between the ensemble and the general music experience.
00:25:02
Speaker
um I
Evolving Demands and Expectations for Teachers
00:25:03
Speaker
really think our general music experience is more closely ah um aligned with the philosophy of a music therapist. where I serve everyone that walks in the room. it It's not about um product, it's about process.
00:25:16
Speaker
And it's, you're providing an experience first for every single child, um regardless of talent, regardless of ability, regardless of private lessons, regardless of, you know, camps or whatever that's provided later in kind of those ensemble years.
00:25:31
Speaker
um And I think that's helpful in distinguishing even though it's a big word to use, you know, philosophically for them as a second year, but to be able to sort of see where, where they're being called, it helps with their calling, I think, to see, is that really what I'm about is more of the process piece or, you know, do I want to stand on the podium with the light shining on me, which is always a concern when I hear that, you know, as a, as a rationale for choosing music education as a profession.
00:25:57
Speaker
um But that's all I know at the moment. And we can, we can, you know, we can provide the rest of it along the journey as they get into their degree a little bit more. Let me ask you ladies this one. What do you enjoy the most when you're working with your undergraduate students? When you go out and observe?
00:26:12
Speaker
I mean, what what do you love? You know, um it's pretty simple for me. Just being in a classroom and seeing the wonderful things. You know, um when you retire from public schools and in your heart of hearts, you're thinking, you know, I don't know if they can do this without me.
00:26:33
Speaker
Because, well, you know, you've been there for so long. And then you get to go out into these classrooms and see people like Mr. Hansen with his um wonderful, wonderful, fun approach to teaching these kids.
00:26:50
Speaker
And we have so many in this area. and And probably my favorite thing to do is to just watch how our kids, Wartburg kids, blossom. with the old,
Encouraging Teacher Retention and Resilience
00:27:03
Speaker
the veterans, the co-ops that are out there because it just does my heart good because I can say, you know what?
00:27:12
Speaker
It's all right. It's going to be fine. These kids are going to bring to education wonderful things. So for me, the the best part is just being out in those classrooms and seeing what's going on and keeping me abreast of the changes in education too.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah, I 100% agree. In addition, I would say the light bulb moments of when you get to witness a pre-service teacher connect something. Maybe it was from um you know at an earlier lecture or maybe it's something we had – ah discussed before their lesson, anticipating, and then there was actually a result of some kind, or just their theirre little successes that and even students wouldn't recognize, but but we know that happened.
00:27:57
Speaker
I think those light bulb moments, I just, I mean, that's so true in all of our teaching, right? But just just that piece of it, I think is so important. um And that's what I enjoy the most in addition to being in the classroom, but just watching their persona grow.
00:28:10
Speaker
um and so we talk about the teacher's persona is is should be, different and often is different from, you know, you having, you know, coffee with your bestie talking about life. um There's a different persona there because you have a leadership role and you have a mentoring role and you have um many levels of responsibility happening.
00:28:31
Speaker
But to see that persona sort of form right before your eyes, is that amazing, Chris? You kind of get to see that from one visit to the next. Absolutely. yeah that's that's a really That's a really cool thing. Yeah.
Advice for Navigating Teaching Careers
00:28:41
Speaker
What, well, let me ask this question and we're not calling out names, but um since you both go out to a lot of different classrooms, I mean, is it really interesting seeing how all the different classrooms run, you know, whether it's their management style or how they teach or just whatever, what's that like a little bit?
00:29:06
Speaker
I'm just being snoopy now, but. Just go for it. Chris just went out to two classrooms this morning. so she was. I was. um You know, I think what's what's fun to see is that you, Aaron, might teach this way and get the kids to this level where you want them and what you want them doing.
00:29:31
Speaker
And I might walk into a different classroom and that teacher has a whole different approach, but they get them to the same point. So it's good for me to see that because being a non-music person, especially um to see how you can still get to whatever that objective is.
00:29:50
Speaker
The other thing that I think is just so neat is, and I i don't know, Nikki, if you've ever written down, I don't keep track of all the classrooms I've been in, in the area, but, and, and, and I'm going to be real honest. There are some,
00:30:07
Speaker
co-ops who do a fabulous job of teaching, but they are not what I would call the best fit for a student teacher. and And I've seen a few of those. And Nikki, I know you have too.
00:30:21
Speaker
and But the The thing for me that I like to do is then i kind of like to work with that co-op too and help them see, well, could you do this? Could you maybe help this student teacher do this?
00:30:35
Speaker
So I like the challenge of going out, but it brings music itself, observing music student teachers. There's a joyfulness about it that takes place in you know, 90% of the classrooms. And so i i am blessed to be in all those different classrooms. I enjoy every minute of it always.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yes, I think, I mean, part of what Chris and I do is is building relationships with teachers around the Valley so that we can, um you know, kind of, we have sort of our um pod of of, you know, really master educators that that we would seek out every semester, year after year after year to please, please take our student teachers because they have that perfect balance of what you just described, Chris, that perfect balance of excellent teaching, but also um really good mentoring skills.
00:31:26
Speaker
And and i've I've just found that, you know, what gets in the way of the mentoring piece is usually the ego. And we all agree that in, especially in our, you know, the performing arts, there're there we all need a little bit of ego. It's what, it but you know, sometimes what drives us as performers and and likely as as um educators and conductors too, but, you know,
00:31:45
Speaker
But I think when that ego gets in the way of letting someone else grow in your experience, and that you're or at least in the experience that you're able to provide in your classroom, um you know that's that's a sad moment. So I know when I'm making matches for student teachers, more than even teaching skills or training, I'm really looking for personalities that will match really well, where I where i sense that they will be able to develop a really strong professional relationship.
00:32:12
Speaker
Well, Nikki, I'm glad to hear you say that because that was the next question, which I'm not going to ask because you just answered it. But I was going to ask as far as cooperating teachers, because having been one for I think I've had over 30 student teachers in my career. um If that was a consideration as you match student teachers to cooperating teachers, because in my ah experience, I've had very good luck.
00:32:39
Speaker
I would say I probably only had one in all my years that did not go well. And probably I should have had that person place somewhere else. And I, I, I thought I could do it. i was like, no, I can, I can work this, I can do it.
00:32:57
Speaker
And it didn't work out so well, but the rest have all been fantastic.
Contemporary Challenges in Education
00:33:02
Speaker
And I think those connections you make, I mean, Chris, my my two cooperating teachers from Waverly-Shell Rock, of course, I got to be their colleagues when I went to Waverly.
00:33:14
Speaker
But I mean, we are still friends to this day. yeah and they're still my mentors. I mean, when I have anything education, i call them and I say, okay, I need your advice.
00:33:25
Speaker
I just need to know what to do. And they're always there. And, you know, you build those relationships. And I have my student former student teachers, you know, that message me and say, I'm thinking about doing this. I don't know. What do you think? And to build those relationships with them is just really special because it's something you can carry through your whole career.
00:33:47
Speaker
Well, and if I can jump in, this kind of is about that same thing. But one of the things that Nikki and I and Scott always talk to our student teachers about is Yes, you need to get into that classroom and start building relationships with your students. You need to get to know them. You need to know who comes to school without a breakfast, who has to go home and babysit the kid.
00:34:09
Speaker
But you need to develop that rapport and relationship with your co-op so that you two, and exactly what you said, Erin, so that five years down the road, I can pick up the phone and say,
00:34:25
Speaker
Hey, Mr. Hanson, do you remember me? And you say, well, yeah. Well, I remember you told me and and establish that because I'll tell you what, and and Nikki, how many times do we say this to our kids?
00:34:38
Speaker
You're going to, those people that you work with are going to get a random call someday and say, would you even hire Chris Thompson? She was in your classroom. And and the student teacher's like, yeah, but what if you don't put them on your ah list of references? Doesn't matter.
00:34:54
Speaker
establish that relationship so that those co-ops will be able to talk about you in a positive way and be able to share things. And that's that's what part of a big part of student teaching, I think, is all about.
00:35:09
Speaker
Well, yeah, you're totally right. And and as a cooperating teacher, i mean, you want to establish that relationship because this is a person who's gonna be teaching your kids, your kids.
00:35:24
Speaker
I mean, you know, in the end, sorry, student teachers, you're moving on, which is always shocking to the kids
Hopeful Future of Education
00:35:30
Speaker
because they don't know where they went. They think we sent them somewhere. They're like, what happened to them? I'm like, they have to move on. That's just how it goes.
00:35:38
Speaker
But you're only here for this time. And it's still my classroom in the end. And so we have to have that relationship that I can trust you Yep.
00:35:50
Speaker
You know, when it's time for you to start teaching activities and teaching songs and doing things with the kids that, that I know you can do that and take over at the same level of what they're used to. And so, yeah, that that relationship piece is huge, huge, which is why you guys are so important because when you come into the classrooms, that's our time.
00:36:14
Speaker
We don't always get long to talk, unfortunately, with these elementary schedules. but But if there are concerns or whatever is happening, you know, then that's our time to get that to you.
00:36:26
Speaker
Speaking of that... What would you guys say in this current state of education and everything that's going on? What would you say are are some of the struggles that that student teachers looking to go into teaching jobs? What what are some of the things they're facing nowadays? I mean, we're all old enough.
00:36:51
Speaker
we didn't deal with this 20, 30 years ago, but if things are different now. I mean, we have a teacher shortage and we have different things going on. So I don't, who, who wants to start? Go ahead make me jump in.
00:37:06
Speaker
Oh, sure. Thank you, Chris. um Gosh, it's probably longer list than you want to hear because I, but I don't want to sound like it's, you know, doom and gloom. um But, but when I think about highlighting those, I would say,
00:37:20
Speaker
um You know, one of one of the items on that list would be um accepting our teaching role as a lifestyle as opposed to a job.
00:37:33
Speaker
And I just want to sit i want you to sit with the word lifestyle for a minute minute there because that that's sort of a newer concept that I've been able to describe what we do. Because I think if we think of it as a job and that we're going to have set hours and that we're going to um you know never bring our work home with us and and be able to escape the 24-hour demands of what our fields are like, even... and And when I say this, I don't mean this in a negative way, but even at the general music level, and what I mean by that is when you're working with K6, there are less...
00:38:12
Speaker
after school and weekend responsibilities than if you are working with 7-12, for example. And so that doesn't mean that they're not important. it just It just means that that you you don't have as many of those um extracurricular activities.
00:38:26
Speaker
ah But presenting it as a lifestyle versus a job, I think, is is a difficult concept for some of our young teachers to understand because I think they truly imagine there's going to be some sort of work-life balance.
00:38:39
Speaker
And we all know that there's never a 50-50 in most career paths, but especially in ours. um you know it has It's more of a roller coaster. um And so I think that's one thing that is helpful to clarify in their early but the early parts of their studies.
00:38:55
Speaker
ah say But can I ask you about that just yeah for a second? Because would you say that's a ah current trend? Because I feel like that's been that way for a long time. And Chris, if you want jump in. Yes, would say demands are not a current trend. would the way they think about them is a current trend.
00:39:13
Speaker
Okay. Because I remember my early years of teaching and I would spend weekends up at Janesville schools. Yes. And I remember kids saying... I always see your car and Mrs. Rowling's car. You're both up at school on the weekends.
00:39:27
Speaker
And it was because there were stuff we had to get done. yeah And we just, we just did it because you had to do it. I mean, it was like, so, I mean, I understand what you're saying.
00:39:38
Speaker
Yes. I totally understand. And I agree with what you're saying, but I don't know that that's necessarily a new, i think teachers, I think we've been doing it for so long.
00:39:49
Speaker
that we just did it. Yes. And we never shook our heads. I mean, but I think the way Gen Zs think about it is that they actually will walk out the door at four every day. Right. And they actually can say no to things.
00:40:02
Speaker
And yes, you can say no, but what I'm saying is that um You know, the teachers that the master educators in your building who have done all of those after school things for the last 30 years, like they're ready to start saying no.
00:40:14
Speaker
And they were under the right to start saying no. And I know this is going to sound old fashioned, but new teachers haven't. Like you need to be saying yes to everything. And so the the idea of I'm going to arrive at eight and leave at four.
00:40:27
Speaker
at any level and any grade level and any, any part of what we do. I just don't, I just, that is a new trend that they can think that they imagine it will be ah that cut and dried.
00:40:39
Speaker
It's more, yeah it's more of this to this job, this hour to this hour done. And, and I would, um, I would say you talk about some of the changes or differences. I think our teachers are carrying some big loads these days. A quality teacher, when I started, 6.30 in morning till 5.30 night.
00:41:02
Speaker
that's But there's so much more on their plates as to standards and what the district expects and what the state expects. And we know that nationally it won't matter anymore. But, um you know, I'm just saying, I think that that that and then the other part of it is, and again, I'm not trying to do the doom and gloom, but our generation, some of them coming up kind of think they're entitled And that entitlement, and and we talk about this openly in seminar, you guys have to earn your spot.
00:41:38
Speaker
You are not going to walk in at you know, um and and using Carissa Lambert, who is a wonderful teacher, you're not going to walk in and impress her by saying, I'm your new colleague, but I can only meet with you at 830 and I'm going to need to leave at 330 because...
00:41:56
Speaker
No, no, because that's a woman who has been doing it all for how many years? And so I think that's a change. Yes, we're asking more. But if you're going to go into teaching, you're goingnna have to give, too.
00:42:09
Speaker
We don't want you to wear out. We want mental health is important and self-care is highly important. But you still have to put yourself out there a little bit. Well, and that's my next question to ladies, as you both just brought it up, because and.
00:42:26
Speaker
As I just left teaching a year ago, you know, at that point, we're getting more and more added. But is anything being taken away? No, exactly.
00:42:38
Speaker
It's just more and more added. So how do you how do you as training undergraduates going into being first year teachers, because that's when we're losing our teachers in this first through like five, six years, this burnout.
00:42:53
Speaker
how do we keep encouraging them? It's even hard as a cooperating teacher. I mean, if I'm asked directly, what what are the benefits of going into teaching right now? It's hard to say.
00:43:08
Speaker
i mean, it's hard for me to list 10 things that are, what what do you say? That's a tough question. only The only thing I can think of that's,
00:43:21
Speaker
um and on that list would be to fulfill your calling. I mean, really, i mean, if you think about the, um and maybe maybe maybe benefits, but who's thinking about you know retirement benefits at 22?
00:43:35
Speaker
out you know Like IPERS would be maybe a benefit, but who thinks about that at 22? um i Yeah, I mean, we are asking them to um manage a workload that is significantly ah more than other fields are expected to accomplish.
00:43:56
Speaker
um We're asking them to be in charge of the formation of other lives yeah um when there may not be full cooperation for that because you're you know there's there's what we need for our students, but then we have um you know working with their parents as part of that journey.
00:44:13
Speaker
And sometimes the parent has a different view of what the student needs then than you do as their teacher. um We're asking them to lay their lives down for their students. How many people are willing to do that?
00:44:24
Speaker
Yep. um and And I mean, that some that may sound dramatic to some, but it's true. Are you willing to jump in front of your student to save their life? Yep. And and that's that's the other thing too. And I say this and I've said it in seminar. I've said it individually. I just said it to a student teacher today.
00:44:41
Speaker
You are laying the foundation for every other profession in the world. You have to have an education, K-12, to go on.
00:44:52
Speaker
If you're going to go out and be an electrician, you have to have that education. If you're going to go out and be um a groundskeeper, that's a big deal now doing the stuff at golf courses. They're still going to say to you, well, do you have a high school diploma?
00:45:07
Speaker
So you're laying the foundation, but And be proud of it. You're needed. We appreciate you. It won't always be shown. You know, in the old days, half a beef was given to the teachers once a year, you know, whatever it was that to show appreciation. but i That was before my time.
00:45:26
Speaker
Well, it was before mine, but, you know, I've heard the story. but I like the idea. i do too. um But I think the biggest thing that I say then is remember all this stuff on your plate.
00:45:37
Speaker
A, don't be afraid to ask for help. you you're not in this alone. And I don't care if you're at New Hartford North Campus where there's, i don't know what they've got, 35 people um faculty, or if you are at Waverly-Shell Rock Middle School when they where they have 80, or West High, there's still someone there that you should be able to turn to and say, I need help. I'm i'm struggling.
00:46:03
Speaker
And the same thing, your mental health, that doesn't mean, um and Nikki and I had a situation that we both were kind of puzzled by it. A young teacher saying, oh, I just I don't talk to anybody. i i I don't take phone calls. I don't go out in the community. I don't, that's my time. And we're kind of like, well, that's a little bit the other way, but you do need to slice out a little bit of time for yourself and for your own mental health.
00:46:28
Speaker
Yeah, you do. I mean, no matter what you do and you have to have those people in your life, whether it's a colleague or somebody at your home or whatever that helps you,
00:46:41
Speaker
Yep. And I've always been lucky because I've had that through my career. i mean, you know, Mrs. T, I had Mrs. Squires at Janesville and I would go down almost every day because I was a new teacher. Yeah. And I would, she goes, just sit down and what's going on.
00:47:00
Speaker
And then I would talk about it and then, okay, this is what you're going to do. And luckily now i I've turned around and I'm old enough. I'm that person that I can say, okay, what's going on? Yep.
00:47:13
Speaker
Okay. This is what you're going to do. But you have to have those people in your life to help you. Absolutely. Or any of us. I mean, how do you handle everything? So, well, you two ladies are powerful.
00:47:29
Speaker
um Okay. Let me ask this one. What kind of feedback... feedback or advice would you give to your student teachers as they're looking for a job?
00:47:41
Speaker
Yes. And so if you want me to get more, like more specific about actual feedback to their teaching, I can do that. But generally when they're searching for a position and, and Chris and I give the same message, we we actually talk about this together a lot.
00:47:53
Speaker
Like number one, make sure that you are finding a community that's a good fit for you. um You are interviewing the district and and your future colleagues just as much as they are interviewing you.
00:48:06
Speaker
And I will say that's, that is different from when ah the three of us started teaching. I mean, you were just thankful to get a job. And at least for me, I knew I would be starting in a small rural community and have to sort of work my way up to a suburban urban, um you know, for a position.
00:48:25
Speaker
um And I say up in quotes because we all should be growing where we're planted. That's not the goal for everyone. That was just my goal. um And so not to settle ah for something that they they know is not going to be a good fit for them.
00:48:39
Speaker
um And right now, more than ever, honestly, um they are looking at particular states to be teaching. And our our current teachers are because of the um not only political interference in education, but the social elements.
00:48:55
Speaker
um Because they know wherever they end up teaching, they also are going to be living. And um if I can be very honest, all but one are looking out of state right now.
00:49:07
Speaker
and And I would, i Nikki, we talked about this last fall already, the changes and and not to get make this a political statement, but I think our young teachers are savvy enough to know that I need to investigate the district that I'm applying to.
00:49:25
Speaker
and if it does not match my own personal beliefs, I'm okay, I might go and do an interview for the experience, but that sure as heck is not where I want to you know start my first five years in the classroom.
00:49:40
Speaker
and And that's always what, and we say it over and over, all of us in our fall seminars, take the interview, but don't take the first job if it's not what you really want.
00:49:54
Speaker
and And I think that is so true. Take a look at it. Take a look at your community. Justin Stockdale comes and speaks to seminar for our ah music kids. And he always says, you know, drive through your communities, check and see what they've got. Check things out before you. And of course, he does a lot of Zoom things, too. So that's harder.
00:50:14
Speaker
But get out there and check them out. So you know that it's a community you really like to be a part of. And um yeah, and pay attention to what they believe. And Nikki, you always say it.
00:50:25
Speaker
You're interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you. Well, and I think that's a really important point because I've been writing a couple of blogs for West Music and one was about budgets.
00:50:38
Speaker
and another, I don't remember what the other one about, organizing your classroom. And I said, do not be afraid at your interview to be asking these questions. What is my budget? Is there a budget?
00:50:50
Speaker
What is my classroom situation? What does it look like? Go look at it. You know, like you said, you're interviewing them as well. Yep. And yeah and we've we've even encouraged them to ask even some questions that I know I would not have asked in my early years of teaching, things like,
00:51:06
Speaker
ah please describe the work, the, the culture of your building. Yes. Describe the, the, um you you know, what does the community want for your music program?
00:51:17
Speaker
um There, I think there was a time where, you know, music but was in competition with sports, but it's in, it's, um it's so much more than that now. And not, not that it's more competition. It's just, it's so much more necessary and, and needed,
00:51:33
Speaker
but but hard to do well, difficult to do well in a community that's not going to support your for your students. agenda for your students And, you know, one of the things that I like to have and and I encourage music student teachers to ask is, number one, do you have like a music booster club or is it part, you know, how what kind of support?
00:51:56
Speaker
And number two, hey, just for my own um sake of mind, as I'm thinking this through, if there's a conflict between, say, a basketball activity and music, do you have a rule of how that's handled?
00:52:10
Speaker
You know, you can learn a lot about a district if very subtly they say, well, you know, what we would probably do is ask you to see if you could change your performance to a different.
00:52:22
Speaker
What is that saying? That's saying again to me and I've been in the administrative role that's saying um we don't think music is all that important. We want you. We want a good program, but you're not that important.
00:52:36
Speaker
Right. No, that's a very good point. You know, i had a college professor and she always told us that if you're ever in a job interview and they offer you the job on the spot,
00:52:49
Speaker
you get your buns out of town as fast as you can and drive away. That was her advice to us. and That's very good advice. It's probably true.
00:52:59
Speaker
but so yeah Oh, goodness. Well, yeah everything you guys have said is just so good. Let me close with another quick question. um And whoever wants to answer first, what are some things...
00:53:13
Speaker
that you've learned as a teacher or administrator by working with student teachers. Just some general, couple general little, through your observations and your your interactions and, or maybe it was with a cooperating teacher, but you're both thinking.
00:53:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Not because it's hard to think of something. it's it's There's so many, it's hard to like identify. and one or One or two things to share.
00:53:45
Speaker
I guess I would say that um one of the things that I have learned in my role now as ah working with student teachers is that um
00:54:00
Speaker
I could have done a lot better job teaching in the classroom had I allowed myself to be more forgiving. And I think that's something I learned from a lot of the co-ops um that say just through the way they teach and the way that they present.
00:54:18
Speaker
You don't have to do everything perfectly. You don't have to have a lesson that is just. And I think if I had known then What I know now, um i think my third graders would have gotten a lot better education at times because I just put so much pressure on myself. And I think that's something that we're doing a better job of teaching our new young educators.
00:54:41
Speaker
um And it's due to good co-ops that come out and say, you know, you're going to make a mistake. It's going to be OK. We'll move on. But, you know, to follow up on that, I'm really glad you said that because i think that's kind of the difference between classroom teachers and specials teachers.
00:54:58
Speaker
Because specials teachers, we have a lot more room for forgiveness. And we have that flexibility yeah to this lesson wasn't perfect, but I learned what we need to fix and give those kids the flexibility where I think classroom teachers can't They have so many standards put on them and so many things they have to meet. And we don't quite have that, that they have a lot more pressure on them. I always feel bad for the classroom teachers because it's just like, well, all this is just put on them and they have to meet all this.
00:55:32
Speaker
But if we could learn to give ourselves in ah in a classroom, a third grade classroom, more grace like our specials do and be able to say, we'll get to this tomorrow.
00:55:44
Speaker
This is not a big deal. And I do see it happening more and more. In fact, I just saw it here two observations ago ah with the high school teacher. And she very calmly said to me, hey, T, I didn't get through everything I planned, but I've learned that there's still tomorrow.
00:56:01
Speaker
And I thought, good, that's good, because that is so true. And I think you're right, Erin. I think special teacher, because how many times does your schedule in all your years of teaching get completely messed up?
00:56:15
Speaker
And what's the answer administrators give? Well, let's just take them out of PE. Let's just take them out of music. That's not a big deal. Those people will adjust. Well, you know It's kind of the nature of the beast, unfortunately, that we we as administrators, and i take I did it a couple times. I learned real quick. Sandy McDonald said we were stopping that.
00:56:35
Speaker
But um um I did learn, and and I think that's too often the go-to. Oh, those specials people. But what does it do? It teaches you guys the resilience and the grace and the flexibility.
00:56:48
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and I always appreciated my last couple years at at my last school at Cedar Heights, our principal, the first couple weeks of school, he just said, I'm not, I'm not focused on anything except for building relationships.
00:57:04
Speaker
And if you're not teaching your math lesson for the first week, I don't care. Yep. Just, this is a time to be building relationships with your kids.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah. And I just always appreciated that because he he wasn't concerned. He said, I know you'll get it done. But right now is another time.
00:57:26
Speaker
Yeah. This world we live in, I think we all need to work on building relationships. Yeah. Well, yes, we do. Yeah. Amen. Nikki, you have anything to add?
00:57:37
Speaker
Yes. I was just going to say, Aaron, to your point, I think that um that he was a trailblazer in that. I mean, we i wish I wish I had known the value of building those. I mean, we did it naturally, but i we never talked about yeah the importance of building relationships when I started teaching.
00:57:51
Speaker
And I love that our students, that my that our students Chris, our pre-service teachers just really get that. And I think um they've been raised to... they've been raised to to recognize the value of that with their own teachers, and now they understand the value of that with their own students.
00:58:06
Speaker
um The two things I was going to highlight to answer your question, Erin, is um the first, if I speak philosophically, i would say what I've learned from my students the most is that there is ah great hope in the future.
00:58:18
Speaker
And at these times of self-interest, I think that's really hard for some people to recognize, but I, every time i i look at, um, their work and their aspirations and their, the way that they, um, you know, set goals for not only themselves, but for their future programs, I just, um, they're, they're going to be amazing. And there's, there's definitely, um, hope for both, um,
00:58:45
Speaker
Well, there's just hope in the world, but there's hope for our future. There's hope for music education. there's hope for education as a whole. But isn't it nice at our ages to get to see that potential and see these people coming up?
00:58:56
Speaker
Because we talk about this in our music organizations. Who's going to... When we're not doing this anymore, who's going to be here? Yeah. But to see these... These young people coming up and and they're doing great things.
00:59:09
Speaker
And it's so exciting because it's like, no, we're in good hands. there are There are kids coming up and they're going to be awesome. yeah Anyway, sorry, go ahead. They sure are. And I am i am confident that um you know that they will beat the the national statistic of of leaving the the field within those first five years. I really am confident that all of our teachers will beat that.
00:59:30
Speaker
they'll go, they'll, they'll make it longer for sure. The second thing I wanted to highlight is on a more practical level. i I love that my students teach me new ways to, um, to organize life.
00:59:43
Speaker
Uh, so this is like on a technology level, right? But I don't know that I ever take the time to seek ways to be, to, um, to, and And I wouldn't say they're they're necessarily even shortcuts, but, you know, when I, um I still like to make phone calls. I still like to, um sorry, I still like to ah write out notes. I still like to, um ah you know, even write out my rehearsal plans, but, but my students teach me better, you know, faster ways to communicate, more efficient ways to communicate.
01:00:12
Speaker
um They, yeah. So I just really appreciate that. and I think it helps me to be a ah better communicator. Kristen, I know this really well because we did a tech check on Monday and I had to be, I was actually tech support, which I'm not comfortable being at all because I'm more you, Nikki. I'm like, oh, Lord, have mercy.
01:00:30
Speaker
i But we we got it worked out. I'm learning a lot at West Music because there's a lot of tech and I'm going, okay, my hand goes up. I need help. And everybody says, we will help you.
01:00:43
Speaker
we will help you. Yes. Well, and I want to be clear. I'm not opposed to using technology in the classroom. But I will say when our when our littles especially, when they our students have so much screen time in the rest of their school day, yes i really encourage music teachers, all specials, but especially music, art, PE, like really library.
01:01:03
Speaker
like Let's step away from that for this 40 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever we are allowed to have. um hour, hour long rehearsal, let's intentionally be organic because they have so much of that in the rest of their day. And I 1000% agree. Cause when, when the middle school opened at Waverly, you know, that was right when we, everybody got iPads.
01:01:28
Speaker
So then it was always like when specials came around, oh well you want them all to bring their iPads then? And I said, no, no. Because I said, this is our time. we're goingnna We're going to be a community and we're going to have interaction person to person.
01:01:45
Speaker
Yes. Not, yes, I could do technology lessons and you sit at your iPad and do this, but no, yeah they do that all day long. And we need this interpersonal connection because that's what we we're losing nowadays.
01:02:00
Speaker
Yep. And, you know, even everybody with their phones. I mean, what do you do without your phone? Well, just set your phone down. You'll be fine for five minutes. It's just like, come on, get over it. But okay, ladies.
01:02:14
Speaker
Now we've hit the fun part. We're almost to the end. So we always do a little lightning round of questions at the end. They're all music-based questions. And there are no wrong answers.
01:02:27
Speaker
It's just opinions. So you're no judgment. All right, are you ready? I can't wait, because I designed these just for you, too, to see what you'd say.
01:02:38
Speaker
ah ah Can you name your favorite musical?
01:02:44
Speaker
the Favorite musical? Favorite musical. Okay. To produce, or be in, or direct? what Or just to watch? Just to watch. Oh, just to watch. It's most enjoyable.
01:02:58
Speaker
Oh, Lord. i like um Probably the Wizard of Oz musical that Nancy Allen put on, and then and my kids were in it in New Hartford, and then Aaron Hansen put it on, and I had the wonderful, wonderful opportunity to go watch that.
01:03:15
Speaker
I would have to say that is probably by far my favorite. ah Well, I do love that musical. Thank you for saying that. Nikki? I'm going to pick the one that's like the most comprehensive to direct, to be in and watch. And the whole thing would be, this is kind of an interesting one, but would be Annie.
01:03:33
Speaker
Oh, I love Annie. I know every word. I know every song. I know every detail. i Yes. That's a good one. Kenzie just chimed in and said yes to Annie.
01:03:43
Speaker
yeah. but ah But you know, Chris knows I love Wizard of Oz. I did it like 10 times. Okay. ah Okay. Which instrument do you think is overplayed?
01:03:55
Speaker
The egg shaker or the tambourine? oh
01:04:05
Speaker
Egg shaker. was just going to say that, Nikki. I don't know why. Yes. Yes. You both agree it's egg shaker? ah Egg shaker, yeah. I would agree with you, too, actually.
01:04:15
Speaker
And the damn boomwhackers. world Not a fan, huh? oh They are overplayed. they are ah You know, when teachers have music people, and they're boomwhacking, and like, ah!
01:04:32
Speaker
That's just a side note. Okay. Well, all right. Now here's an either or. you have to pick your favorite. Now this one's going to be a tough one. Kelly Clarkson or Carrie Underwood.
01:04:45
Speaker
Oh, Kelly Clarkson. Oh, and I yeah yeah i was going Carrie Underwood. So there you go. All split on that one. 50-50. 50-50. Okay. How about this one?
01:04:56
Speaker
ah line dance or an Irish jig? Line dance. I know what Nikki's going to say. While Chris thinks about it. Is that your answer, Chris? Line dancing.
01:05:07
Speaker
line dancing. Hello. Well, I was going to say while you're thinking about that, but I didn't hear that know that that was your answer. um Mr. Anson, you'd be very proud of me because I just taught Alabama Gal yesterday, too, my second years. Oh. and I thought of you the whole time. I was like, because I learned that from you.
01:05:22
Speaker
um And yes, so you'd be so proud of me. Okay, so. Line dance or Irish jig? And they both have so much value. going to go with line dance because that's what I like to do. I thought you were going to say Irish. I know. I'm sorry.
01:05:38
Speaker
That's okay. They're both. I know that's a tough one. Okay. Then this is your last one. Now this one's personal. So you have to give it quick bit of thought, but a favorite musical memory.
01:05:50
Speaker
So when, um so when I was little, my dad played in a cover band And in those days, we didn't have DJs yet. That's how old I am. um and And so we played for anniversaries and supper clubs on Sunday afternoons. and you know But um on the Sunday afternoons after church, sometimes after our Sunday dinner, the whole family would go with. And so I remember being like two or three, sitting on the edge of the stage with my legs crossed, all pursed, and my purse in my hands, and my frilly Sunday dress on, and just watching the
01:06:22
Speaker
The old couple, old couples just twirl. I mean, po your down so sad that that has gone away, but just watch them twirl all over the floor nonstop and just like, just be like, just dreamy. And then just the music, the old music that went with that, the old time waltzes and the polkas and the two steps. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
01:06:42
Speaker
Oh, that's a good memory. It's wonderful. That really, Chris, um you know, My one that I will never forget, um i had the most fabulous middle school, junior high, seventh, eighth and ninth grade, Owen, Iowa.
01:07:00
Speaker
Her name was Ethel Oberfeld. And she was a large woman. And my dad was good friends with her, called her nickname, or what adults called her was Emma Oberfell.
01:07:12
Speaker
And she had expectations. I mean, you did not come into her band and not expect to get yelled at if you weren't doing it correctly. And I was, my dad said, first you played the piano and then you quit taking lessons.
01:07:30
Speaker
And you have a great sense of rhythm. And M's looking for someone to be a percussionist. I think you should try it. And like I said, Miss Oberfeld scared me. But so I woke up as this little seventh grader and said, hi. And she said, seal, my maiden name.
01:07:46
Speaker
Thiel, go back there and show me what you can do on a bass drum. And I'm just like, i I don't know what to do, you know. And so she said, just beat that thing. And so I'm like hitting it.
01:07:58
Speaker
You can do better. And so I, couple more times and pretty soon she was singing and I was following her. She goes, that's what I wanted. That's what I wanted. Somebody who knows to keep the rhythm.
01:08:12
Speaker
And I just kind of stood there for a minute. and She goes, you're hired. I'll see you tomorrow. And I think of that all the time because I was scared of her and she had me. And the next thing I was beating that bass drum in rhythm and time to her singing.
01:08:26
Speaker
And boy, that woman could sing loud. And so that's that's what I always think about when people say, well, you're not in music. No, but damn, I can play a bass drum. thanks
01:08:39
Speaker
There you go. Awesome. I think that's my favorite question out of our whole podcast because people always have to share something personal. And I find out something because I know most the guests, not all of them, but yeah but most the guests. And I find out some little tidbit that I'd never heard before. And it's like, oh, wow, that's a great memory.
01:09:01
Speaker
So, well, I want to thank Chris and Nikki for joining us and thank everyone for listening because this has been Play Now, Play for Life podcast with Erin Hanson.
01:09:13
Speaker
And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a rating and review. Nikki, where do we find information about Warburg College?
01:09:23
Speaker
You can Google Warburg College or you can go right to their website at warburg.edu. Perfect. And you can find us at westmusic.com slash playnowplayforlife.
01:09:33
Speaker
And we're also on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X. And you can find those links in the description. Play Now Play For Life is a podcast by West Music.