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Episode 3: Tom Michalek on Kodály’s Musical Approach
38 Plays4 months ago
In this episode, Aaron Hansen sits down with Tom Michalek, President of the Organization of American Kodály Educators (OAKE), to explore the Kodály philosophy of music education. Tom shares his personal journey with Kodály, the importance of music literacy, and how to use folk songs, singing games, and joyful play to create a structured yet flexible classroom experience. Discover how Kodály’s sequential approach can help students deeply connect with music and learn valuable strategies to adapt this methodology to meet the needs of your students. A must-listen for music educators seeking proven methods to enhance their teaching!
Organization of American Kodály Educators (OAKE) website: https://www.oake.org/
OAKE Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oakeorg
OAKE Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oakenational
Learn more about the OAKE conference and get a template for asking for support from your district here: https://www.oake.org/conferences/
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Focus
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Play Now, Play For Life, a podcast for music educators. I'm your host, Aaron Hansen. I am a former music teacher for 29 years and now a part of the West Music
Guest Introduction & Kodály Method Overview
00:00:22
Speaker
Team. Every episode, this is our third one. We sit down and chat with experts on music education topics to learn about their tricks of the trade,
00:00:33
Speaker
and organizations and anything to do with music and today we are talking with Tom Michalek who is the current president of the Organization of American Kodály Educators, otherwise known as OAKE. And we'll be discussing their organization and their their method and their conference and all kinds of things that are coming up with their organization.
Tom's Musical Journey & Kodály Philosophy
00:01:00
Speaker
So it's very exciting. So Tom, welcome. Thank you, Aaron. It's great to be here today.
00:01:06
Speaker
on a cloudy day in the. Very excited because this is not like I said, I'm I'm an orff teacher. That's my background. And so this is going to be educational for me, too, because I get to learn a lot today. And I'm i'm very excited about that um leading up to your conference, because but when this airs, it will be early February. And I will be coming up towards your conference because I believe that's early March, early March, first weekend in March.
00:01:36
Speaker
But fantastic. So welcome. So could we just maybe start by just you sharing a bit about your own personal musical background? You know, what did you do growing up and and as music? I mean, I we all have our stories, how we became music educators and how we stepped into that world and that sort of thing. And then also,
00:02:02
Speaker
along with that, what got you onto the Kodály method in your own teaching and your own, you know, biography, that kind of thing. So if you just want to share. So I, ah you said at the intro that you needed, you were going to visit with experts and I will just say that you couldn't find any experts. So you got me today. um I'm not an expert by any means in the Kodály philosophy. I'm an elementary music teacher.
00:02:29
Speaker
in
Experiences with Kodály & Integrating Orff Method
00:02:30
Speaker
central Nebraska. And, um, like I said, have been, uh, you, like you said, uh, current president of OAKE and a volunteer for that position where all volunteers and in the leadership roles. Uh, I but got out of college like in the last century in the nineties. I know it's been a while and, um, was going to be the world's greatest band director. So I was a K 12 vocal instrumental major. I was a euphonium major.
00:02:57
Speaker
Uh, and so got out of school and the job market at that time was a lot different. It was not like now where there's lots of jobs. There weren't very many jobs and you'd apply for a job and there'd be 30 other people applying for the same job. So I looked and looked and looked and looked and and finally got a job teaching elementary music. And I thought, well,
00:03:15
Speaker
I took that three credit course in college i will see what how this is being an elementary music teacher and i loved it and i still love it so i've done it for this is thirty four years now i've done it and um i had a co teacher down the road in the district who um sent me a note. The inner school mail that was back in the days of inner school mail.
00:03:38
Speaker
And she said, there's a Kodály workshop this weekend. You should go with me. And I didn't really know. I'd heard the word, but I went to this workshop on a Saturday and just fell in love with this whole this whole this whole way of of teaching. The presenter, if memory serves, was Lamar Robertson. And for those of you that know Lamar Robertson, you know how what a grandfatherly, fun, engaging teacher he is.
00:04:05
Speaker
And I fell in love with the structure of Kodály teaching and the sequence of all of it. And it taught me how it showed me how to teach a particular concept.
00:04:19
Speaker
what I was supposed to say at each step of the way and what kids needed to grasp what we were studying. So I got involved then in the local chapter, the Plains States Kodály organization in the Lincoln and Omaha area, and would go to the workshops. And I also went to ORF workshops along the way. So
Teaching Approach & Classroom Dynamics
00:04:40
Speaker
I was hopefully kind of getting lots of materials from lots of different perspectives.
00:04:46
Speaker
But the Kodály part just really resonated with me. So I was doing a master's in music at at the time um in the summers, and I couldn't take my Kodály levels because of where I was studying. So I waited till that was over. And then in the late 90s, early 2000s, maybe I did my Kodály levels, three levels in in Nebraska, Nebraska, Wesleyan University.
00:05:08
Speaker
and um just have been involved ever since then it's it's a ah like i said a wonderful philosophy because it and and and the and the experts once they couldn't be here today they say oh it's it's not a method it's not a prescribed method it's a philosophy and i would agree it's you know they talk about the orf approach and there's the kodi approach and there's not really one way or the other could i provide the framework for me for what to teach at each grade level and how to present that particular concept. It's been a great fit for my brain well i that's interesting you say that cuz i started out to i was a band director.
00:05:50
Speaker
and might be And it's interesting to talk to Kodály teachers in general, there are a lot of us that are instrumentalists. And what's also interesting is, you know, a big part of Kodály teaching is singing, focusing on singing, getting kids to match pitch, singing in tune. And a lot of instrumentalists are in our
Leadership in OAKE & Kodály's Joyful Learning
00:06:10
Speaker
Kodály teachers. So yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? That's very interesting to hear.
00:06:16
Speaker
Well, and and it's also interesting, those of us, I mean, you can relate to this, but starting as a band director, and then you go to the general music realm. And it's a great place to be. i love but Because you were a general music teacher. I love that there are so many ways to teach general music. You know, there's so there's there there's there's some ways to teach clarinet, but not a lot of ways, right? You got to learn the basics. in in In general music, we have so many possibilities and the longer we do it, the more we get frustrated because it's like, I can't do everything that I want to do. I can't do all of these activities and all of these different modalities of learning. I have to balance it out. I have to be, I have to be picky. I have to pick and choose what I'm going to, what I'm going to share with my students because there's so many ways to do it. It's just really cool.
00:07:12
Speaker
Well, i yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think, too, that the band and orchestra people, when you have a good general music teacher, they really appreciate because you are setting all these foundations by the time they get them in fifth or sixth grade or whatever grade they start. you know And if they don't have that foundation, you're starting from nothing. And we really set that.
00:07:37
Speaker
Exactly. so it's Yeah, that's really great. so That's interesting to hear from you. Can you share just a little bit more kind of the history and the outline? If somebody asks you, what is Kodály teaching? What is a Kodály method or approach? I have people ask me this all the time with ORF. How would you explain that, you know, that kind of question? I've arrived at the elevator definition of teaching music literacy in a sequential way through folk songs and musical play. In other words, it's all joyful. It it all has to be a joyful approach and and and exciting. And the joy has to come first. And we ah being a Kodály teacher is, ah like like I said, emphasis on teaching music literacy, how to read music, how to write music.
00:08:33
Speaker
emphasis on singing, emphasis on quality music, and using folk songs, songs of the people from around the world, songs sung by average folks, um two to teach all of these concepts and to teach music literacy.
00:08:49
Speaker
ah but The tenants of code i teach us is not really unique to code in other words prepare present practice first we start to experience the concept coming to know they used to say and then presenting oh by the way that's really called.
00:09:08
Speaker
16th notes and it makes the
Movement, Folk Dance & Structured Teaching
00:09:10
Speaker
sound of ticket ticket and the kids were like, oh, okay. We've done it so many times. We've experienced it physically. We've experienced it orally. We've we've experienced it visually. Now we're ready to label it. And then we practice coming to know knowing, you know, and showing, you know, right? Um, and we practice for the rest of time on that particular concept. Um, and like I said, those, but we focus on those three modalities, physical, oral, visual,
00:09:37
Speaker
kinesthetic, and um focus on using quality music. The children are the music makers. And as you listen to this, you think, well, this is all what an ORF teacher does. And you're right, it's all it all comes together. But um ah but ah as Kodály folks, the whole philosophy is based on the ideas of Zoltan Kodály, who is a music musician, composer, music educator in Hungary,
00:10:04
Speaker
in the early part of the 20th century. And yeah, it's the part that I've latched on to besides everything I've already said, the sequence of it. So in kindergarten, here's the concepts we teach, and this is the sequential order. Now I can make choices about that sequence for me and for my students, but in first grade, and then in second grade, here's the order. here's the And and it's ah it's a sequential approach to teaching.
00:10:30
Speaker
well and that's That's so interesting to hear from you because that's how I've seen it as an outsider. But then as an ORF teacher, we're very similar because we have, you know, there has to be a curriculum. There has to be an outline. There has to be this. But then you have that freedom.
00:10:52
Speaker
to let those kids play, let those kids make the music and be joyful. And I'm really glad to hear you say that. I mean, that really resonates. In the past we've had a we've had a reputation.
00:11:06
Speaker
of rigid rigi rigidity. This is how it has to be. And this is the way that you have to do it. And and that's changed over the years. There's still a structure to it, but it's it's also heavily based on what works for your students in your population. What works for somebody in New York City might work differently for someone in Lexington, Kentucky or in Portland, Oregon or in Hastings, Nebraska.
00:11:34
Speaker
And so we're we we are also now in this time still focused on those basics, but also looking at the big picture and the global picture much more than we used to. but Well, and I think we as teachers, we get we get too into that. You know, that's always the number one question at a workshop. What grade level do you do this with? Well, it depends on your kids. I mean, it depends on your population and what for my second graders might be your third graders or could be your first graders. I mean, you know, it's just where they're at. And so I'm glad to hear you say that because I think that's really valuable for people to hear. Because it's so true. yeah so That's very interesting. Just if you could add on just to put a little period on this, but what what is your favorite thing about kind of going with Kodály?
Equity, Inclusion & Professional Growth
00:12:30
Speaker
in your teaching? My favorite things are the focus on singing games, and joyful music-making activities with kids, ah sequence the sequence of the approach for me, and the the the focus on quality music, on beautiful folk songs, and age-appropriate, of course.
00:12:53
Speaker
but they never get old, right? The materials that I use and I'm a regular old teacher. I don't think the code I police are watching this ah podcast today. So I can tell you that there are songs that I use that are not like the greatest. You know, I throw in some ear candy once in a while.
00:13:11
Speaker
And I get tired of that music, right? But like folk songs that are simple, music of the people, I never get tired of it. It's beautiful stuff. The kids don't either. Well, there's a reason they've been around forever because they they carry through. I mean, they've stood the test of time. Yep. Yeah, exactly. um Well, like can I ask you this question? Because I'm kind of a movement. Movement is my my area. Where does that fit in?
00:13:41
Speaker
with your teaching and with the whole method and everything. Because I know Kodály is a little more focused on singing, but I know you you move, you have to. Amen. So for most of us that are Kodály teachers now, we incorporate a lot of movement.
00:13:59
Speaker
creative movement, but also a lot of folk dancing. Some of the movement that I use in my classroom is purposeful because let's say I'm teaching 16th notes and I have this folk dance and it has the 16th note pattern in it, et cetera. But a lot of it, folk dance wise, is this is a great dance for this particular grade level.
00:14:23
Speaker
or this activity is a great activity for this particular age of children. So I'm going to use it at this particular time in the year because it fits really nicely with what else is happening. But maybe it doesn't focus on a particular concept that I'm teaching at the time.
00:14:41
Speaker
A bigger picture though is all of the activities like folk dance, instrument activities, recorder, guitar, or ukulele, creative movement, I could go on. They all support, they can support the concepts that I'm teaching. So yes, singing game, singing in tune,
00:15:03
Speaker
Reading and writing is the basis, but then all the other activities supplement and support everything that's happening. I know we were were going to talk a little bit about how do we incorporate it all. Well, that's the art of it, isn't it? Because it's easy, relatively easy to find activities that are appropriate for second grade. Hey, I went online. I found all these great activities for second grade.
00:15:31
Speaker
But we know that we can't just go activity, activity, activity, activity. that It doesn't soak in. The learning doesn't soak in. that that We lose children along the way. We lose their attention. So the art of it is how can I how can i put the concept first?
00:15:48
Speaker
This is the concept. And now I'm going to find activities that support that concept. And now I've got to structure them over the course of the next 30 to 40 minutes in such a way that the kids are focused and then they're a little bit more relaxed and they let out some energy.
00:16:04
Speaker
and then we refocus again and then we're sitting and then we're standing and now we're um we gotta turn this direction in the classroom and now it's all it's putting it all together that's the art of it that's the part that I love and my lesson plans just like all of us every year it's different because I'm different and the kids are different than the kids that I had last year how can I put this activity all of this this like these activities how can I put them in an order that makes sense to me and makes sense to them and that it just threads through the next 30 to 40 minutes without really any abrupt pauses or abrupt breaks. Okay, now we're going to do another activity. You know, that hopefully doesn't happen in my classroom. We're doing this activity and then and when we have visitors to our classrooms and at the end they say,
00:16:54
Speaker
I don't know how in the hell you got us to do that at the end of the activity, but we started here. What happened? It's like, yep, that's, that's the fun of it. I didn't, I didn't invent it. I did, but I learned it from other people and by watching master pedagogues over the year and it's weaving it all together. Great fun. Well, and I don't know how you feel about this, but I always felt when I was teaching, you have the lesson plan.
00:17:20
Speaker
But it really doesn't take shape till after the lesson because then you go back and you, you you know, OK, this didn't work. Scratch that out. But this did work
Upcoming OAKE Conference & Resources
00:17:30
Speaker
or ah we changed it. The kids did this. And then now here's the lesson plan for next time. Yes, it always changes. You're right. And it can it can change. Can't it um on the time the um the day? Oh, it snowed.
00:17:45
Speaker
Oh, there's a full moon. Oh, there was an assembly this morning at nine o'clock. And even though it's at two in the afternoon, that had an impact on how things are unfolding here. um Or fire drill. Right. It'd be easier if they were little robots, wouldn't it? Because we've got all this stuff that we're going to do. And here's what it's how it's going to unfold in my head. And it's beautiful. But they're not robots. They're different every day. And so we roll with the punches and we restructure and we reflect. And why didn't that work? Why did what?
00:18:16
Speaker
Yesterday, it worked so well. What did I do different today that it didn't work? it's It's a hugely reflective process. Never the same. Can you talk a little bit more about, I always like to hear people's pathways. You are now president of OAKE.
00:18:35
Speaker
And just how that all, what was your actual, you kind of said a little bit earlier, but it's just interesting. I think for people to hear, they always think, well, I could never be in that leadership role. I could never, you know, and it's like, no, you can. I mean, we're just regular people, right we're right? So I, like I said, I went to those workshops when I was a young teacher and I think it's so important for young teachers to connect somewhere.
00:19:01
Speaker
ideally in person with other teachers that think like you do and that have faced the same challenges that you do, whether that's through an Orf workshop or a Kodály workshop or a Dalcros workshop or an AFME workshop, but to connect with other people. So I connected it with the Kodály people. and And at the time, I'm sure it's like this a lot of places around the country. You go to an Orf workshop from your chapter one weekend and then the next weekend you go to a Kodály workshop, it's the same people, right?
00:19:26
Speaker
But um but I got involved in in the code I chapter and I was they needed a newsletter editor. And this was back in like the mid 90s when very few people knew how to print. You know, it was kind of a big deal. And so I was a newsletter editor. And then they said, hey, we need a new chapter president. And I was like, well, ah I had a couple levels of code I buy then probably. And I was like, well, OK, I'll do it. And our chapters, in case you're listening and you're thinking, well, what does a chapter do?
00:19:54
Speaker
get together about three or four times a year. And we have PD, we bring in a clinician or we combine with the ORF chapter, we both work together to bring in a clinician. Or we have nowadays a a Zoom ah workshop or we have a book study and we just get together and we listen to the clinician from like 9 to 1 on a Saturday was always kind of our historical model and learn new songs and new techniques and what the research is currently saying about how kids learn.
00:20:22
Speaker
And so I was the chapter president and I worked with the team to you know bring in those clinicians, decide our programming for a couple of years. And then I think I was nominated to be on the national board as a regional representative. And I did that for a term or two.
00:20:40
Speaker
And then a few years later, um, the Oak is divided into four divisions geographically, Eastern, Western, Southern, and Midwestern. And I would
Blending Teaching Methods & Personal Insights
00:20:50
Speaker
live in the Midwestern division. So I was asked if I would run for division president. So I oversaw the chapters in the division and, um, and by overseeing, it's not really a supervisory role as much of it is a.
00:21:07
Speaker
assistance role, how can I help you? What do you need? Oh, you know what, this chapter needs the same thing. Let's put you two in touch. What resources do I know of that can help you at the chapter level? And um all throughout that, then I was also involved in committee work.
00:21:23
Speaker
OAKE has ah as a relatively large committee structure. About 10 to 15% of our members are involved in our national committees, whether that's supporting our chapters or putting on our national conference or our equity committee, et cetera.
00:21:41
Speaker
And um so I was involved in committee work and then they said, well, need ah we need somebody to to run for a national president. Would you do it? it's in And for me at this time, my daughter, she's in college. So she was getting ready to go off to college. We have an empty nest, Amy and I. And and and I was like, yeah, yeah, this is a good time. ah I'd like to give it a try. Talk about learning curve. My good friend, Leanne Garner, the president elect, always talks about, yep, drinking from the fire hose. That's really what it was like. um And it continues to be that, but it's just such a privilege. It really is the privilege, professional privilege and an honor to be in this role. And it's really about helping people and a lot of it I've been discovering.
00:22:31
Speaker
is whats what's prepared me is structuring a classroom. you know i we ah I'm a relatively small school, 350 kids, but you get to know those kids and you get to know who learns best in what ways based on our experience with them. You need to sit in front, you need to sit in back.
00:22:52
Speaker
You tend to learn when night you look at the board. You tend to seem to grasp things when you hear me talk about them. You tend to need to always be moving and doing everything. You know you learn that. And adults, all those students that we teach, they grow up.
00:23:07
Speaker
And some of them become music teachers. And so that's a big part of, uh, of being in this role is, is helping people to be the best versions of themselves professionally. How can I do that? How can I help people be leaders in their position within the organization? It's really an honor to do it. I'm getting to know so many smart, smart people could, I said, spend time with people who know more than you.
00:23:35
Speaker
And that has been my guiding philosophy over the last three years.
Closing Remarks & Staying Connected
00:23:40
Speaker
Well, well I 100,000% agree with everything you're saying because I served on the AOSA National Board for three years. And yeah, you learned especially in your role as a president, like you said, you learn how can I, this person, this is their strength. So let's, let's grow that strength because that's where they really bring stuff to the organization. And, but at the same time, I don't know how you feel, but it was very interesting for me to serve on the national board because now you see the organization.
00:24:18
Speaker
and how it's all structured, where you don't see that when you're just a member. I mean, you know you go to the workshops, you go to the conferences, you you do everything, but you really don't know how the organization works. And for me, that was huge, because it was all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes that I really didn't know.
00:24:38
Speaker
Absolutely and it's in its um seeing all the stuff behind the scenes the things we have to do just to keep the lights out on. um And the structure of the organization and how it works and also keeping in mind that i'm only gonna be in this role for two years we have an executive director just like a osa who's.
00:24:57
Speaker
the longitudinal person, Lauren Hirsch is our executive director, and she's fantastic. And so if I think to myself, oh, this is not how this should be structured, it should be structured this way, I always have to think, no, wait a minute, I'm not going to be doing this for much longer. How is is this something that can be sustained, this particular piece? um But yes, you see all of those things behind the scenes and how it all fits together. I always used to think but in my early career,
00:25:24
Speaker
What do these music teachers have to talk about? I mean, my gosh, they're music teachers, for goodness sakes. Oh, difficult, can it be? But there is, there's so many meetings that we have about the organization and about the chapters and about the structure of the organization and how we can best make it all work so that we can serve teachers. It's amazing work. And to sit on those executive boards, I mean, I just felt so honored for those three years because the people you get to work with I mean, we all have a common goal and we're all there for the same purpose. Exactly. And the the cool part is, you know, you're you're sitting at those AOSA meetings and I'm at these OAK meetings and we're talking OAK business or AOSA business, but in between it, like the little breaks or, you know, at ah at a conference when we're not in a meeting, you know these people now and you can say, hey, what do you do when your fifth graders do this and you try this and it doesn't work?
00:26:24
Speaker
And you you you make friends with these people and you listen to them and then, oh, I know this person, they're doing a session on recorder. I didn't know they were a huge recorder player. I just knew they were good with um being a ah treasurer. um I'm going to go check out this recorder session. And then you're like, wow, I know so much more now about whatever topic it is because I know this person. It's just really cool to get to know all of these brilliant music teachers.
00:26:52
Speaker
yeah i totally Yeah, I totally agree. um On that topic, can I ask, because I did a little research on your website, um how about how many chapters are there now nationally? Over 40, about 42, 43 chapters around the country. um And we're fairly spread out geographically around the population centers of the US.
00:27:18
Speaker
Um, and some chapters are larger than others. And, um, but yeah, it's a, it's a, and always adding more, it seems like we're always adding new chapters. Well, that's exciting. That's, that's great for any organization. Um, let me pivot just a little bit. Cause I know AOSA we've dealt with this. What, what is OAKE doing nowadays with, um,
00:27:43
Speaker
equity and inclusion. I know that's been kind of a big topic for quite a few years now. And our I know our organization has been working on that. And how do we do a better job with this? And it's taken, it's been a lot of discussion.
00:28:00
Speaker
and sometimes it's not comfortable discussions, but ones that need to happen and we're making strides. um I saw it on your website, you had you had information about that and night I just thought that was great. Yes, um equity and inclusion are are foundational to everything that we're doing and our mission of supporting music educators. And we know that access to high quality music education and high quality professional development should be available to everybody.
00:28:31
Speaker
regardless of their background or their identity or their circumstances. And so we try to live that and reflect that through intentional representation. You know, we're always looking for ah clinicians so that we can feature diverse voices in our programming, um including culture bearers, um a variety of repertoire, um also through chapter level advocacy.
00:29:00
Speaker
So at the local level, ah or we're encouraging our chapters to help host workshops and events that ah address inclusivity and to create spaces where educators and students of all backgrounds feel valued and represented.
00:29:18
Speaker
um We have a commitment to equity initiatives and we've embraced our commitment to equity statement, which is probably what you saw on the website, but it's a guiding document for us. How can we live that statement? What are we, what practical steps are we doing to live that statement? So we're working on those practical steps. We're developing short, a little statements of purpose so that equity remains central to our goals and our decision-making process.
00:29:48
Speaker
Also, we offer scholarships and grants, um and the the goal is to reduce financial barriers to local workshops, attendance, to national conference attendance, so that our organization is accept so accessible to people all around the country. That said, we know that equity and in inclusion are ongoing efforts. It's not a destination, so we continue to listen, learn, evolve,
00:30:17
Speaker
so that we can respond to the needs of our members and the communities that we serve. I think it's a a shared responsibility that requires intentionality on our part, um collaboration with each other, communication with each other, transparency. But OAKE, I know like AOSA, I know Tiffany, we are committed to doing the work necessary to ensure that equity and inclusion remain at the heart of everything that we do. and Yeah. And it's so important. And, yeah ah you know, we, when we started these discussions years ago with the OSA, I mean, we're looking around at our national board and who's in the room and how well represented are we? Well, we really weren't. I mean, it was kind of,
00:31:05
Speaker
the same type of group of people. And we said, we're not even representing, you know, so, I mean, that there are just so many challenges, but, but I think our organizations are really looking at it and doing the best we can. And it's slow going, it's slow process, ah slow progress rather. And we know that, that, that we have to continue to do the work and and it's, it's getting even sometimes so in some ways more challenging to do the work in our current environment.
00:31:36
Speaker
when it seems like many organizations are jumping off the bandwagon, so to speak. But I know that that all of us in OAKE and AOSA were committed to our initiatives for the long haul. Yep. Yep. Very well said. Very well said. Okay. So talking about your national conference, I've never been. Oh.
00:32:02
Speaker
Can you just kind of lay some of that out, how your conference works and maybe some highlights? It's awesome. So our conference is typically Thursday afternoon to to Sunday afternoon. And this year's theme is musical storytellers continuing Kodály's narrative. And it's just one of my favorite events of the year. Oak members get a discounted rate at re at registration. Our conference is in Chicago.
00:32:31
Speaker
It's we had a Chicago location last year and we're going to be in Chicago through twenty twenty eight. And we're so we're located at the Palmer House Hilton, which is a beautiful hotel conference center in downtown Chicago.
00:32:46
Speaker
Some of my favorite presenters will be there. um Jill Trinka is going to do a session, Crystal Henricks, Gabriella Montoya Steyer. We have a Sunday spotlight session and directing, giving that session and directing our participant choir is Rekha Chernick, who is an Australian.
00:33:06
Speaker
Hungarian born, fantastic conductor. Um, Rebecca lakes, Rebecca buck, Megan Sheridan, on and on and on, but over 65 sessions. Um, Thursday afternoon actually starts with a mini conference. We call it from about one to four. And Gabriela Montoya Stier will be sharing, um, singing games from the Southwest and from, uh, Mexico and Hispanic.
00:33:32
Speaker
uh, singing games from a book that she wrote, also some new things that she's collected. Uh, our keynote address will be Michelle Milbin. And Michelle is the CEO of a, of a company called Code Rising System Intensive Workforce Preparation Program. And she's also founder of Explanation Kids, which is a startup that does research to support teachers and students and families that are tackling tough things.
00:34:02
Speaker
um And then you know how you think you and I are busy. Michelle's an attorney, a public speaker, former White House advisor to Barack Obama. former attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice. And in her spare time, get this, she sings background vocals for people like Bruce Springsteen, Sting, and Steven Tyler, and Mavis Staples and stuff. And she's our keynote. It's gonna be awesome. um We're gonna give some Lifetime Achievement Awards at our conference. Dr. Mary Epstein, Dr. Sandy Mathias, and Constance Price are gonna receive their ah Lifetime Achievement Awards. But Sessions on Friday, it's Friday, Saturday,
00:34:41
Speaker
ah We have national conference choirs, four national conference choirs, about 500 singers. We have a fourth and fifth grade children's choir, a sixth through eighth grade youth treble chorus, and then a nine through 12 concert treble and a nine through 12 chamber choir. So they're rehearsing throughout and then their concerts are Saturday night.
00:35:04
Speaker
ah We offer affinity events at the beginning of our conference. We have a BBIA affinity event and LGDBQIA plus affinity event. We have one for retired people. I'm not in this category yet, but soon. Retired but not retiring. Isn't that a fun name for a group? We dance in the evenings. ah Melissa Fuller Flores will lead us in dancing on Thursday night, ah Friday night we have a social, Saturday night after we have the Ondre Krier concerts, we have a folk dance and a community sing. Sandy Knutson's going to lead the folk dancing on Saturday night. And then I get to lead the singing in interspersed with some, with like a pub sing. It's going to be a blast.
00:35:52
Speaker
um So it's just a great time of of networking and visiting with other people and inspiring us to do this difficult work that we do i always walk away from these conference conferences renewed my sense of mission is renewed.
00:36:07
Speaker
Okay this is why i do this work and this is what keeps me coming back because now my sense of mission is renewed by this fantastic weekend just spending time with all these wonderful people that think like we do in it.
00:36:22
Speaker
and that see the world, see education the way that we do. Now, you also know this, just like our, your AOSA conferences and our OAKE conferences, you don't need to be trained in ORF or Kodály to get so much out of these conferences. um One of my friends said, yeah, I've never had them check my card at the registration table to make sure I had my levels training. Nope, that's not part of it.
00:36:47
Speaker
and and And so even if you don't have any training, it's just a fantastic way to spend time with people. At our o conferences, we sing a lot together as well. At our opening session, we sing. At a lot of our sessions, we start with the song. We sing at the advisory council luncheon. We just sing, sing, sing a lot. It's great. So come one, come all to Chicago. First weekend in March, and um and have a great time with us.
00:37:14
Speaker
Well, your conference sounds like a lot of fun. You need to come, Aaron. It's it is. You need to be there. Maybe I'll talk to me my And we always call it our family reunion. Right. I mean, we're just like this is when I get to see all these like minded people.
00:37:33
Speaker
and make music and learn. And ah we just call it the family reunion because that's what, what yeah yeah. And I totally agree with you. You come away at the end and you just feel refreshed, renewed, excited. Right. Absolutely. Great fun. Wonderful.
00:37:51
Speaker
Wonderful. um Can I ask you this question? Because this is always something teachers asked, especially new teachers. Do you have any suggestions on how teachers can advocate a little bit to attend the conference? Because I know there are teachers, you talk to them and and they say, oh, we're not allowed. we We can't go. They won't allow us to go.
00:38:14
Speaker
And maybe any tips. Right. Well, actually on oake.org, we have ah a little a letter that's a template that you can alter and give it to your administrator. But basically, when I'm when I've asked my administrators over the year, over the years about attending.
00:38:33
Speaker
ah Rather than saying, hey, there's a conference in Chicago I really want to go, can I? it's I stress that, hey, I'm committed to delivering the best possible instruction that I can. And I'm committed to continually learning more about what I do and about how children learn. And I want to provide the best music instruction for our students. So there's this conference I'd like to go to. And the reasons I'd like to go to this one and not the one in nearby is because it's packed with PD from distinguished and diverse national and international presenters. Like I said, at at the O conference over 65 sessions, and I'm going to have to choose from those Mr. and more miss administrator. And the ones that I'm going to choose are going to be focused on
00:39:25
Speaker
And then you fill in the blank. So maybe there's a school wide initiative that you feel like you can be part of. Maybe there is something um that's important to your community and you're going to focus on learning about that at this particular conference. And so tell your administrator that talk about how you're going to observe.
00:39:44
Speaker
processes, live teaching demonstrations, how you're going to observe and be a part of musical performances. um You're going to be able to watch the Oak National Honor Choir. And and um you could even throw out, hey, OAKE offers comp registration for administrators, if you want to come with me.
00:40:03
Speaker
And and then so so you're focusing on how what you're going to learn and how you're going to pass that along to your students, focusing more on that part of it and less on, hey, I want to go to Chicago for the weekend. Will you give me some money? But it's more about how is this going to impact our building.
00:40:19
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. Or, you know, and another thing I've done in the past is maybe there was a certain area I wanted to improve on as a teacher more, you know, so this year I'm going and I i want to take three recorder sessions because I just need to work on that myself. Right. So I can teach it better. And, you know, because they want us to be lifelong learners. that's And then you can always offer, Hey, when I get back, I'll have a PD for, I will have a PD.
00:40:47
Speaker
For the other music teachers in the district and I'll share with him everything I learned and Oh, okay. Well if you're willing, you know, so that that could be another selling point Yeah, no, that's great. Um, I meant to ask this before so I'm backtracking just a little bit But now you have so you have choirs that perform at the conference, right? So our choirs are auditioned from anyone around the country. Okay, and so the teachers record and send in materials and then ah but then we build our our choirs from that, ah our conference choirs. Kids from all over the country participate in that. They start rehearsals I think on Wednesday and then they have their concerts on Saturday afternoon, Saturday evening. and there So our honor choir clinicians are the best of the best from around the country. The best could I choir ah conductors
00:41:42
Speaker
that we that that are out there. Georgia Newland this year is is directing ah one of our choirs and she's an amazing choral educator and just a lot of fun to watch. ah yeah and Yeah, she is and then three others. Well, you're full of information.
00:41:58
Speaker
um Now, what are some of your favorite ah resource materials that you use in your teaching? Just some tried and true. You know, for me, I have I've picked up a lot of things over the years, right? At these at these workshops and through my training. And um so I use a lot of the materials that I've grabbed over the years and I use as far as new songs and new folk songs. ah There's an online collection called the American Folk Song Collection, which is through the Kodály Center, ah which is now used to be a holy names in California. Now it's at the University of the Redlands in California.
00:42:36
Speaker
um And then as far as like print materials that I use, my current favorite folk dance book is Join Up Hands by Sue Holsetter. And it's great. Sue is a good friend and an amazing folk dance teacher. And her, so her book te ah presents the folk dance, but then it also presents, here's the challenges of this dance. Here's the traps that the kids are going to fall into. So here's how you might want to structure it. Teach this first, say this.
00:43:06
Speaker
And then try that and then teach this part next. And here's a phrase you can say to teach this particular part of the dance. It's just this great teaching book. I still am in love with all of the New England dancing master materials, all the Amadon stuff. I think Peter Amadon is like a God. I just think he's the best and Mary Alice. Um, but I look, otherwise I look for materials now by Karen Howard, uh, Gabriela Montoya Steyer, Myrna Cabrera.
00:43:35
Speaker
Um, Rachel Gibson has a great book contact on Migo singing games from Guatemala and Nicaragua, which is about a three-year-old book. Um, I still use a lot of game plan materials by, um, Jeff and Randy, Christian Delilah. Um, because that game plan curriculum is just so structured and, and it really is usable in a great way.
00:44:00
Speaker
by a CODI teacher and an ORF teacher, I think they just do a a masterful job of putting it all together. I haven't yet explored because my district hasn't delved into the purposeful pathways, but I have a feeling based on those authors that it's another, would be another fantastic resource. I tend to, you know, now I, just like when I go to a conference, I look less at book titles and session titles, and I look at presenter names.
00:44:30
Speaker
because I know, oh, this presenter, they're fantastic. Whatever they do is gonna be great. This author is great. I'm gonna i'mnna buy this book because this person puts out great products. Yeah, I totally agree. And you know the other thing that's really exciting, I think, is that we're seeing younger people coming up you know, there was a time when we looked at AOSA like, okay, everybody's getting older, like who's going to start picking up the mantle here? And right. But now we have all these people.
00:45:03
Speaker
I mean, in their 30s that are yeah doing things and it's like, this is so exciting because... it's And it's, they all provide, they all bring their own spin to the table, don't they? Whether it's Orford, Dalcros, or could I? They, you know, you think to yourself, I've seen it all. I've seen every way to possibly do this. But then you say, oh my gosh, I never thought of it that way. I never framed it in that way, the way these people are. um Yes, it's just great to watch those young, energetic,
00:45:34
Speaker
Excited presenters well and i think for me you and i are relatively close in age apparently here but i think you know i have people ask me they say. What do you have left to learn i mean what i mean like why are you still going to conferences and it's like you just said with these new people coming up i said listen there are always new ideas.
00:45:56
Speaker
And you mean sometimes we need that to say, yeah so like you said, I never thought of that that way, that it's fantastic. yeah And now I'm going to take that back, you know. So I think it's great. exactly um We kind of talked about this, but i I always felt like, because I haven't done any code eye levels personally. um But when I was taking my ORF levels, there were people there that had just got done taking their code eye levels.
00:46:23
Speaker
And their take was always kind of like, with the Kodály approach, I learned how to sequence and organize. And now with the Orf approach, I'm seeing a little bit more how I can play with it.
00:46:41
Speaker
he would you kind of Would you agree or disagree? I'm learning how to now blend them because they go together. right And I always thought that was interesting. Yes, they blend. We are alike more than we're different, right? um But I think the ORF approach, and I've taken one level, and so I'm like you. I haven't studied ORF like you have, yeah. yeah Okay, um but um I think that what I know about the ORF approach is that it brings that creative piece to the pie, and it can focuses on, I can, I can feel better about using some contrived material, you know, when I take my code I levels, we research that folks on we look at the where it came from, we're not going to change it based on our own pedagogical purposes. And so we get real
00:47:37
Speaker
yeah ah been out of shape sometimes by all of the rules of that in an unnecessary way. And then I go to an ORF classroom, for lack of a better term, and it's like, oh, they're using it this way. So I can do that. That's allowed. um And it in it it's because just they they blend those two approaches just really. I wouldn't want to do one or the other. like I wouldn't want to be just this code I purist. We can only do it this way and this is It really has to all, you know, I have a full Orf instrumentarium in my classroom and I use it all the time, but I can use it to supplement the concepts that I'm doing. And a really good teacher, I think, are they an Orf teacher? Are they a Kodály teacher? I don't know. They put it all together. I couldn't tell you what their training is. You know, you I remember like Julie Scott, for example, isn't she a great example of how she, she weaved all that together. And in it's just really cool to watch people like that.
00:48:36
Speaker
Well, I kind of think that of any teacher, like of really any teacher, we should be called eclectic because if you're only one, one ideology or this is it, you know, you're not opening yourself to other things. And, in and every kid learns differently. So we have to bring all of that stuff to, so we can appeal to all these learners.
00:48:57
Speaker
And, and, and I don't know about you. I mean, as I get older, the kids are changing and there's so much more diversity than ever before. And so we have to adapt and we have to. Yes. And kids learn differently, right? They learn differently than they did five, 10 or 20 years ago. And so we can't just teach the same way that we did.
00:49:21
Speaker
20 years ago or 10 years ago we have to adapt the way that we teach so that we can continue to engage kids. And i think the more of these sorts of workshops and conferences i can go to the more friends i can make that know what the stuff and i can learn from them the better.
00:49:39
Speaker
well Agreed agreed. Okay, now we're ending with the lightning round, and I know you don't know what's coming. Scares me, I know this is kind of scary, Aaron. These have been, actually, we've recorded the first two podcasts with West Music people, and i the this was my favorite part, because I had no idea what they were gonna say. They're simple questions, and there are no wrong answers, so we're just finding out. But since we just finished the holidays, I have to ask you,
00:50:11
Speaker
favorite Christmas song? um I'm going to go on a limb and say favorite Christmas artist at the moment, Leslie Odom Jr. His first Christmas album, Simply Christmas, it's called. Check it out. It's the best. I like that answer.
00:50:31
Speaker
That's a good answer. Okay, well also since we're recording this right after Christmas, I do have to ask this question because this topic has just been everywhere. Should people be singing when they go see Wicked?
00:50:44
Speaker
um i Should they sing? I would prefer they didn't sing while I was there. In their head. You can sing in their head. I'm totally with you.
00:50:57
Speaker
It's been brought up, so I've had to keep that one in. I'm like, okay, I have to find out what they're thinking. Okay, how about this one? Favorite song from a musical?
00:51:09
Speaker
ah I was on a the kick this summer and I was looking for some background music while I was correcting papers while I was teaching a levels program. And I went on pbs dot.org and I watched an episode of Great Performances and it was like this Rodgers and Hammerstein anniversary concert. And Aaron debate, who I was not familiar with previously, he was a Broadway star, I was like, that guy can sing. And so anything that he's singing, I think it's the best. I'm a big Aaron debate fan at the moment. He was I saw him in a production of Les Miserables. Oh, yeah. yeah
00:51:49
Speaker
Yeah, he's a good, he's a good, well, he was also in Greece when they did Grease Live on TV. And he, but yeah, that's a Well, here's the fun one. Okay. Which do you prefer for a dance, a ballet or a tango? ah To watch, let's go with ballet because of the Nutcracker, right? We just finishing Nutcracker season.
00:52:17
Speaker
I took chalk trial lessons. My wife and I took chalk trial lessons a couple of years ago, but I've never, I don't do ballet. And anyway, love to folk dance. Okay. ah Well, I can't wait to see what, hear what you say for this one. Uh, which instrument do you think is overperformed? The tambourine or the E flat clarinet?
00:52:41
Speaker
over-performed. Which one is more annoying in my classroom? The tambourine because there's not very many E-flat clarinet players. I'm always like now children take your tambourine and lay it sideways so the food doesn't fall off because I can't hear because they can stand with their tambourine this way as quiet as the little mice but it drives me crazy all the noise.
00:53:02
Speaker
and Yeah, we love the tambourine. I always have a contest when they play it when they when we have on pitch percussion out then the grand test is which group can be the most quiet to get it back to the container and the tambourine kids are always like a We're not going to win this because, but they can, they can hold them very still if they really concentrate. Okay, and then your last one, because I have to ask you since folk music is so huge, favorite folk song?
00:53:35
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that's a tough one. um I love anything that Gene Ritchie has sung over the years. Check out Gene Ritchie's stuff. um Barbara Allen's beautiful song. um I'll Sell My Hat is a beautiful folk song. um There's just so many, right? I know. I thought that was going to be a tough one.
00:53:57
Speaker
Um, at the, seeing on Saturday night at the conference, one that we're going to do is the barley mo. Check out the barley mo on your local streaming service. I don't know. It's cumulative. It's going to be awesome. Okay. I'm going to check that out.
00:54:16
Speaker
Well, thank you, Tom, for joining us. And thank you, everybody else, for listening, because this has been Play Now, Play For Life podcast with Aaron. And ah Tom, can you share really quickly your your website for... You bet.
00:54:33
Speaker
oake.org. So check out oake.org for information about our organization and particularly about our conference that's coming up in March, that first weekend, March 6th through the night um in Chicago at the Palmer House Hilton. um And we would love to have you be a part of our organization, whether that's at the chapter level or the regional level or at the national level or all of them.
00:54:57
Speaker
And I encourage you listener to be involved in, like I said, in some organization, whether it's aos a OSA or OAK or, uh, docros of America, um, or anything like that. So you're connected with other people. That's so important. That's why I'm still in this. I think after 34 years, I don't know if I could have done it. If I was on my own without the training that I've had because it's, it's saved me.
00:55:24
Speaker
Well, I totally agree because I think without that networking part, how would we survive? and So lonely, yeah right? So lonely. It's so important. If you enjoyed this episode, consider subscribing and leaving a rating and review. And you can find us at West Music dot com slash play now play for life. And we're also on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and X. And you can find those links in the description.
00:55:52
Speaker
Play Now, Play for Life is a podcast by West Music.