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Episode 4: Lauren Hirsh on Building Musical Foundations with the Kodály Approach
40 Plays3 months ago
How can the Kodály approach help students develop lifelong musical skills? In this episode of Play Now, Play for Life, host Aaron Hansen sits down with Lauren Hirsh, Executive Director of the Organization of American Kodály Educators (OAKE), to explore Kodály-inspired strategies that engage students in active music-making, build musical literacy, and support general music teachers. Lauren shares her personal music education journey, insights on bridging elementary music to ensemble success, and tips for integrating Kodály principles into your classroom. Tune in for inspiration, practical ideas, and a deeper understanding of this powerful approach!
Organization of American Kodály Educators (OAKE) website: https://www.oake.org/
OAKE Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oakeorg
OAKE Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oakenational
Learn more about the OAKE conference and get a template for asking for support from your district here: https://www.oake.org/conferences/
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Play Now, Play for Life, a podcast for music educators. I'm your host, Aaron Hansen, former music teacher of 29 years and now a part of the West Music Team. Every episode, we sit down and chat with experts in music education to learn about their tricks of the trade and topics in music education.
00:00:30
Speaker
And today we're going to be talking with Lauren Hirsch, who is the Executive Director of the Organization of CODI Educators, and we'll be discussing the structure of the organization and the benefits of the organization. So welcome, Lauren. Erin, thank you. Nice to meet you and to get to spend some time with you this morning. And Lauren is currently right down where it's a little snowy in her area. so It's quite snowy in Kansas.
00:01:01
Speaker
Well, we, Iowa people understand that too, you know how it goes. So could we just start a little bit and talk about just your, just to get to know you a little bit, because we've never met before. So it's wonderful to meet you and talk about your personal musical background and your musical upbringing and that kind of thing. Just a little bit about you.
Lauren's Musical Journey and Influence
00:01:25
Speaker
Sure. Um, it's fun to talk about it because as you know, we just entered a new year and it's kind of a reflective time and I've been thinking about, you know, where am I going? But what got me here and music teachers are what got me you know the life that I love that I'm living right now. So um it was fun for me lately to think back on how my musical experiences and other experiences led to me wanting to be a music teacher and then to get to do what I do now, um working with the volunteers running the organization. so
00:02:01
Speaker
um You know, I think actually hearing my story might help educators imagine the long game, like the long story that we're painting for our students and the part that they have in that. um Because I started, you know, my musical memories go all the way back to preschool and like my grandmother singing to me.
00:02:23
Speaker
and playing Farmer in the Dell and like acting out play stories and um singing before I knew to be worried about that and you know just having fun with music. And and then you know eventually piano lessons and I started playing flute in fourth grade and You know, that was great. And I'm definitely a front of the classroom kind of person, but also what changed for me and and sort of shifted my trajectory was in eighth grade, my band teacher, Marla Weber, she knew that I took piano lessons and she said, she looked at me in the front row, like vying with the other flute players. And she said, um Lauren, I've got this xylophone part and you take piano, right?
00:03:10
Speaker
Do you think you could cover that part? So I went to the back of the room, quickly learned the xylophone part and found my community back there. Like I was at home in the back of the room, it turns out. And and that's when I shifted to percussion and I was in drumline in high school. and marching band was a big deal at my school and um had so many, not just musical, but communal experiences through that that I'm realizing now really, really shaped a lot of my decisions after that point.
Transition to College and Musical Diversity
00:03:40
Speaker
um And also, you know, I just got so many of my values from that. Like you leave, you put in everything you've got and you leave things better than when you showed up. And, you know, it's it's strange, but it's my music experiences that also gave me some of that, you know, made me those parts of who I am.
00:03:56
Speaker
um Anyway, so then I went on to college and studied percussion and piano at Wichita State University, had a really varied experience there. It was not it was not a percussion program focused on classical percussion exclusively, it was, you know, we were playing music from all over the world, playing the steel band was a big part of my time there. and We had Brazilian ensembles, African ensembles, you know, i I just got to see a lot of interesting things and actually participate in a very diverse repertoire that absolutely affected how I taught when I went into the classroom, but also who I am.
00:04:38
Speaker
and You know, another thing that's not part of my musical but background, but I know is part of what what was part of my path in a big way was that I did dance early on when I was in elementary school. And you know that that was just where I felt at home, like movement and rhythmic movement and the storytelling through that you know just became part of me. and And I would say same thing for all the athletics that I did. um Again, it comes back to community and striving for something. and
00:05:14
Speaker
Anyway, so you asked about my musical background, but I think all of those things really contributed to why I wanted to be a music educator and what I brought to it. So I have i have like 50,000 more questions now, but where did you, um, well, first of all, I love that you talked about your grandmother singing with you when you were younger. I think that's so, I think singing at homes is something that doesn't happen as much all the time, but it's so cool to hear that. Cause that really,
00:05:44
Speaker
that musical foundation, you know, just having that music in your home. You know, that's such a great early childhood thing to get started. um Where did you ah do your undergraduate then? So both my degrees in music ed are from at Wichita State University. So it's actually my hometown and it's where I where i am now. ah So it's wild that my so my hometown has nourished me and given me all the opportunities to grow.
00:06:14
Speaker
for you know over 40 years now. So it's been good to me. um And yeah, I agree with you. like If ah Zoltan Kodai actually has, we there's a quote of him, when would you start a child's music education? And he said nine months before their mother's born, not nine months before they're born. He actually amended it later and came back and said actually nine months before their mother's born because Music is part of who we are, and music is everywhere. um But it's part of our part of our personal culture. And you know for me, my grandma had a piano that had went back actually a couple generations.
00:06:54
Speaker
And for some reason, when I got up there, there was music, there was notation on the piano, and I actually thought I was playing it. You know, and that's me me fiddling around with that, just tinkering and probably singing at the piano. Whatever caused me to do that is what caused my parents to then say, oh, maybe we should give her piano lessons. It, you know, kind of started everything. But it came from a natural interest, but I think every child has some sort of tinkering musical interest.
00:07:19
Speaker
wow Well, we're kindred spirits in multiple ways. I played percussion. Well, that was clarinet was my main instrument, but I did play marching percussion and and all of that. And I was blessed. my My high school choir director, I hadn't had piano lessons. And he had a feeling I was going to go into teaching music. And he said,
00:07:44
Speaker
you need to start piano right now because you're going to need it when you get to college, you know, and you're going to need it all through your career. And if you hadn't done that. So I started like immediately my junior year and and was as quick of a study as I could be. What was your um what was your teaching background then after college?
Career Aspirations and Teaching Philosophy
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, so I was bound and determined to be a high school band director because that's where you make a big difference because you know i had i I could recall the recent memories of how my high school experience had affected me and inspired me and just given me so much. um But then once I got into, it was really my student teaching experience. Um, I had a wonderful collaborative teacher that, you know, was trained in multiple approaches and she was growing and contributing to the professional community. And, you know, I'm so lucky for that because I didn't know to choose that, right? It happened to me and I recognize later how helpful that was. Um, but,
00:08:47
Speaker
I realized in my classroom with her, my last semester of student teaching that, you know, this is the place, the general music classroom and in that time at the elementary level is where we see everyone and we get to instill these things in everyone and we affect them early on. And one of my favorite things about teaching elementary was that I got to have these kids for six years which if I had them from kindergarten to fifth grade, which happened you know more than at some schools, I was lucky for that. um If I had them for those whole six years and they left me at you know the end of fifth grade, I'd known them for half their life. And I was part of that. And I had a plan you know because I kept growing as as an educator myself. like I knew what I wanted them to experience from kindergarten through fifth grade. And I kept improving. And I know that
00:09:43
Speaker
you know, they had some skills that hopefully, hopefully they wanted music in their life at some capacity and had the skills to be independent with it by the time they left my classroom. Well, and you um at that age level, you're so foundational to laying all those, you know, building bricks to let them move on, whether they're in choir or band or orchestra or more than one, you know, but That's so important. So your teaching was mainly in general music or did you ever do band? um Actually, no, I never taught band other than I went back and worked with my high school drumline. um And I did some percussion ensembles and things like that, um just because I loved it. But yeah, I taught general music. um You know, I also do a lot of hand drumming and stuff in my classroom. Yeah, I never went on to teach band, but hey, I'm still young.
00:10:37
Speaker
Well, I was a band. i'm I'm, we're again, kindred spirits because I was instrumental and like you and like so many of our undergraduates, they come in, you know, when they do observations in my room, what do you think you're going to teach? Oh, I'm going to do high school choir or I'm going to do high school band. That's all they think they're going to do. And then they start watching the general music room and saying,
00:10:58
Speaker
I don't know, this is really interesting what's going on in here. These lessons are really engaging. you're teaching it I think they don't know we're teaching all those foundational concepts and and things and all of a sudden they have a different view. and I taught band for just a couple of years and then i I transitioned as they say to the dark side and I went to general music. and That's been ever since that was the story because it just is. in Hopefully the band and orchestra people appreciate that because we are setting them up. You know, it always made me so happy in my heart when the band director would come up to me and say, oh, we were having a lesson today and we were teaching this rhythm or something. And they'd say, oh, we already learned that in general music. We know what that is. Yes, we did it right.
Alignment of Music Education Levels
00:11:45
Speaker
We got something right.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes it's a semantics issue. You know, I just want to say like ah learning to build that bridge with the trajectory of our students' ah experiences in school music.
00:12:00
Speaker
you know, what can we accomplish if the band and choral directors and other ensembles really understood the language that we're using in the elementary classroom so that they can best build on it. um And I've been part of some interesting things to exploring that. ah But you know, that's huge. Can we communicate it to our children in a way that they can then use it in their next, you know, the out next outgrowth of their experience? Right, right. Yep. I 100% agree.
Exploration of the Kodai Approach
00:12:31
Speaker
So what was your actual first experience with the Kodai method? And how did that start to influence you as as a musician and as a teacher? Oh, that's so nice to think about. um When I think back to my elementary experience, like I have really rich, vivid memories. um I remember Miss Hanning had the folkman as Owl Puppet, and you know we're doing all the vocal exploration, and I loved that. And I think part of the reason I love that is because it was visual, but it was also embodied.
00:13:05
Speaker
And it was sort of um not so straightforward that it was this overtly musical thing and that we were developing a specific skill, which I now know she was doing. I just thought it was fun. But to me right there is an example of a musical strategy to help children. And it works.
00:13:28
Speaker
And the Kodai approach is a collection of strategies like that. So there's not one particular method. Like I wouldn't call the Kodai approach a method. It's more a conceptual framework, a philosophy, and then a collection of strategies that you can put together in an intentional way, responding to students and their needs and their experiences that you can build on. So I think back to my elementary experience where We were doing some of those things, but I don't think my teachers were trained mostly because the Kodai approach was not well understood in my part of the country. and We didn't have a training program in the area. I mean, a lot of that has really grown just in the time that I've been a professional, um although it's been in the United States for our organization's 50 years old. So it's been around at least that long. um so So my experience,
00:14:24
Speaker
with formally understanding what the Kodai approach was as an educator came when I was in college. And then I immediately started my, you know, my first summer out of school. I was back in school getting a Kodai level and it changed everything for me. Gave me all the inspiration I needed to keep on, you know, what's a challenging path. I know everyone in their music classroom has had challenges. So I'm glad I had that foundation early on. um And then I continued,
00:14:54
Speaker
to summer training programs the next two years. So the beginning of my career was supported by that learning. And then as soon as I was done with my Code Eye levels, I went on and did some ORF training as well. And yeah, so, and that's a good fit for me too, because of my experience in piano percussion, or I'm sorry, dance and percussion. But yeah, I got to learn it at my undergrad and it was part of my master's degree.
00:15:23
Speaker
Oh, interesting. Well, and I'm really glad to hear you say because I'm, I'm basically Orf trained. So Kodai is not my expertise. Um, and so I wasn't sure when I was writing these questions. When I use the word method, I had approach originally. Mm-hmm.
00:15:42
Speaker
And I just wasn't quite sure which one seemed more appropriate, but I'm glad to hear you use the word approach. And I like the collection of strategies. I think that's a really wise way to talk about it. um So I'm learning a lot with these podcasts right now too, because you're teaching me um more about it. how many um How many levels then do you take? Is it three?
00:16:05
Speaker
Um, usually three. Yes. okay And, um, there are some programs that choose to do four, there are programs throughout the country. So every summer, and then oftentimes as part of people's master's degrees as well, if you're in for the full academic year, um, sure. That, that might be part of it. And where did you do those? but Also at Wichita State. So once again, um,
00:16:29
Speaker
Yes. You were lucky. I was. i I have been. Yeah. It's been nothing but goodness here for me, but, um, yeah, there, are there are programs throughout the country. So people can usually find something in their neck of the woods if they, if they're interested to learn or to travel somewhere.
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I know when I took my ORF levels, I went up to St. Thomas in St. Paul and they've had a pretty strong CODI program for a long time too. And an emphasis if you want to do your master's degree in either one, since you've taken CODI levels and you did just one ORF level.
00:17:05
Speaker
I did too. The third year, two the third year that I would have gone, I had, I had a couple gap summers there. Um, but the third year that I would have gone is actually when I ended up having this position with OAKE. So that was a, that was a summer of learning a new job instead of, uh, learning my final level. of Fair enough. But um so how would you kind of marry the two together? I always find this interesting to talk to people that have done both since I have not. It's just interesting to hear their perspective. Well, first of all, breaking things down into, you know, you've got this whole concept of like, what is music? And it's all these skills and they're they're affective. But they're also, you know, there's sort of technical things that you learn and there's labels and there's things like this. But
00:17:54
Speaker
What I love is I think, you know, and I'll just speak to Kodai and Orr for now because they have the only two that I've received formal training in after my undergrad. um Both absolutely want to respond to where the students are at this point in time. You start with where the child is.
00:18:17
Speaker
um We're not just going to go stand around the piano and open up some notation and expect people to read it or fake it. It's about their actual experience. And you're breaking down is the conceptual aspects of music into bite-sized pieces that are actually gettable by the students. And so those elemental basics are part of it. And I would say the other really important connection is that it's active music making.
00:18:46
Speaker
We are not letting anything just, you know, come in through osmosis or through meaningless repetition. We are taking structured activities intended to develop the musical skills in a particular way that students basically can get. And then just applying our wisdom as a teacher and knowing those students to choosing the things that we think they'll respond best to. But I think those are the two most important corollaries is that it's responding to the student and that it's active. Well, and I'd love to hear you say that because I think it this is just my opinion, but in this day and age, especially, they need that active, whether it's music making or whatever they're learning about, they need that activity. You know, we don't need a screen all the time. We need to be people and be humans and
00:19:46
Speaker
work collaboratively in a classroom. But I also like that you brought up teaching the kids where they're at. Because in general music, we find this. I mean, we have kids at all ability levels. And you know you have the kids that take piano lessons. They know a lot more about notation than other kids. But we are always adapting to meet each particular kid where they are. And how can we help them grow from where they're at?
00:20:14
Speaker
um Well, kind of just piggybacking on that a little bit. What is one of your favorite things using the Kodai approach to teaching? That's one of my favorite things. Well,
00:20:29
Speaker
There's a lot. I mean, getting trained in this stuff you could change more than what changed my life. it I mean, it changed like who I am and how I taught um and what I choose to get done in the lifetime that I have. It impacted me in that level. But one of my favorite things is just that it goes back to the philosophy. So Kodai was a man. He was a Hungarian person. He had you know watched generations of his nation go through authoritarian rule.
00:20:55
Speaker
you know they really were starting to lose themselves in a way. um and And in some ways I've heard finding trouble connecting with their sense of who are the Hungarian people.
00:21:08
Speaker
and He knew that music was a key to people knowing themselves and to feeling a sense of you know nourishment as a community. Kodai based this concept on what works for children and helps them develop their whole self. So it's not just your technical skill, but your ability to hear and understand.
00:21:36
Speaker
your heart that's being engaged when you're making music alone or with others, and then also just your understanding of musical concepts and being able to to develop in a way that you can be independent. It's not just when you're there with a teacher, but it's something that you might pursue for your whole life because you all of those pieces were attended to. So the philosophy draws on how to make people feel like humans and how to experience that through music. But then of course, how do we practically do that? Well, we're going to develop these skills and tools and and then guide teachers how to put them together in a way that can help you accomplish that really big fla philosophical goal. You're kind of making me want to go take a levels course, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that.
Leadership in Music Education
00:22:28
Speaker
um So let's let's now talk a little bit about the organization and can you kind of talk through a little bit about your personal journey, how you got into this leadership role with OAKE and kind of, everybody usually has a little pathway that got them there. Yeah. Mine is entirely based on other people seeing opportunities that I didn't see for myself and then pointing me in the right direction. So, um,
00:22:59
Speaker
And I feel like I've ended up right where I need to be. And I'm thankful to be a part of this organization because um I'm a small part of our employee staff that really is just there to support the passionate volunteers that are music teachers doing this on the side because they think it's that important. So that's a really cool place to be. um And I feel very purposeful in it.
00:23:25
Speaker
But my trajectory was, yeah, when I i was exposed to the code I approached, when I was in my undergrad, went on and was teaching in the classroom, as I mentioned. And then I thought our organization needed an email list. This is my local chapter at the time, the Kansas Music Educators.
00:23:44
Speaker
and or Kodai Music Educators of Kansas, um which was a relatively new chapter. um They had hosted a division event that I got to attend just right after I left college. um And then they were just like the best group of people. They were just really fun to be with. And I noticed that when I was going to these workshops, I was learning a lot of things that were sticking with me and really helping me in my classroom. And I started to recognize that My training did not end when I graduated college because every single day in the classroom was its own challenge and its own education. And I needed more support to keep growing and to keep responding to those challenges more and more effectively.
00:24:29
Speaker
um And for me, my Kodai chapter in Kansas gave me that ongoing learning, ongoing community, and just like great people. So I got more involved with the chapter in little tiny ways, right? I'm going to help set up an email list. Oh, I think we could use a website update. I'm going to, I got to ask to do that. And then he eventually, you know, somebody asked me if I would like to run to be on the board and as eventually as president. And I did that. and you know It's amazing because, again, it's it's people inspiring those things, not me having that trajectory in mind. I don't know how many people are in one camp or the other, but I tend to be seeing the opportunities as they show up rather than planning them. and Then I realized that I was really
00:25:17
Speaker
really enjoying creating these opportunities for other teachers. I liked planning the workshops. I liked hosting the events. I really liked thinking about how to affect more teachers in that way. And I leaned more and more into that and hosted a division conference in Wichita. And eventually a position came open on the staff for the national organization. And again, a friend said, Lauren, you really should you know, put your name in that hat. And I didn't see that for myself, but I did it anyway. And then I realized, oh, this is really the sweet spot for me.
00:25:56
Speaker
And they were looking for an executive director, so I also was able to move into that position. And and it's been really nice to be um in this spot now for eight years and be building on the trajectory that we started back then. And I've just gotten to work with so many amazing volunteers. I mean, they're just the people that you dream of working with, you know, and I truly mean that because it's it's music teachers that care. That's huge.
00:26:26
Speaker
Well, I think they turn, I mean, I've served with AOSA, I've served in multiple roles and they turn into your family. I mean, another family and you need that support in your music life. And I love that you said that the right people suggested things because I'm the same way. Like I don't always go after something. And then a mentor says, you should, you should be on the national board. You should run for that.
00:26:56
Speaker
And then once you do it, you find that spot and it's like, yeah, this is great. So we need those people in our lives, those friends that say, I think you should do that. Or even your, I don't know, you maybe your former teachers too from your levels courses that they've been mentors for me that still to this day say, um you need to be presenting more or something because you've got it. And so yeah, that's that's a great story. I love it. So you've been doing it for eight years.
00:27:27
Speaker
Can you talk a little bit more as far as your role as the executive director, like just duties and things you do? I always find it interesting to hear about the organization because once you're in the organization, you're not just a participant going to a workshop. It's a totally different, you see all the behind the scenes, all of the structure. Yeah. so Yes, being being on the planning side of things and ah the business side of things is definitely different than when I was a volunteer and you know seeing um the the outgrowth of the national organization's touch points at the local level. um I love that I get to be sort of in all of it now. um I love getting to be hands-on with our staff and with volunteers.
00:28:19
Speaker
and First, I'll just say part of my personal approach is like, I'm i'm here serving in order to help other people's interests and inspirations actually get to grow further. So this is a great position for me to get to live out that vision um because we've got passionate people across the country that I get to support. And so the executive director of a nonprofit organization like mine
00:28:54
Speaker
runs the business, we run the business side, but also um we partner with the board who's making a lot of strategic decisions, setting the vision for the organization and making sure that 50 years later after our founding, we're still doing what the organization was dreamed of by the people that founded it, but also working well in ah in the modern context that we're in.
00:29:20
Speaker
so That's a really interesting place to be in. It changes every year, right? um We've got a small staff and there is no one on the OAKE staff that is not either an educator or a musician. And so that's a cool space to be in. And um we you know support the board, support the many, many committees doing interesting work.
00:29:45
Speaker
And then we also you know are the ones on the phone answering the emails, updating the website, all of those technical things. um And so, yeah, it's ah it's a nice small community of staff and it's all good people. Can I go?
00:30:02
Speaker
off topic for just a brief second. I know this was not in your question, but I'm just curious. Were you guys, did you have a lot in the last probably five to 10 years to deal with with song selections? Cause I know that has been a real issue.
00:30:20
Speaker
for a little while, finding the histories of songs and the sources of songs. I know just in my own teaching, you know, there were things I had to get rid of because you found out the the origin and the meaning. um Yeah. Well, first I'd say, you know, an organization like mine. So O-A-K-E or Oak, as we oftentimes call it too,
00:30:45
Speaker
We're a collaborative professional community, so it's teachers learning from teachers, having support from others, and it's it's just all of us trying to grow using all of the knowledge that we're each willing to share and come at it from our different angles.
00:31:02
Speaker
so I think it's an ever-changing place to be ah when it comes to topics like we're learning things that we didn't know about repertoire and what responsibility do we take for that? How do we do that? um And those are answers.
00:31:20
Speaker
that come actually from the community because we don't dictate exactly to the teacher education programs what songs to be teaching. So as a collection of educators, we're all supporting each other, asking those questions about how do we respond, what's going to happen in our classrooms and why, and what's the learning that we can all share with each other. So um it's an ongoing discussion how we choose our repertoire, but what are the foundational tenets of what's important to provide to your students and what are the values that you bring to it and what works you know in your community. And and I think the the conversations that people have been able to have at the local level and their training programs are really important in people making those decisions.
00:32:08
Speaker
Well, and I think you, I think you bring up a good point.
Community and Collaboration in Music Education
00:32:12
Speaker
I mean, I think, I think in our organizations, the good thing is we have such a good network of people that we can help teach each other and work together. And, you know, I learned things from other teachers and I maybe had no idea that that that song had that origin, but but learning together. And like you said, it's always changing. So we're always evolving and we're always having to adjust and move at the times. But anyway, I just was curious of your opinion on that. um Anyway, back to OAKE. Can you kind of talk a little bit about um some of the things that that your organization provides for music educators?
00:33:00
Speaker
in different ways? Sure. I mean, it all comes back to the collaborative community. um It's by teachers, for teachers, um you know, the people that are presenting at local workshops are other educators chosen by those local people as something that's needed in their area. So you know, all of those events are planned and the vision is set from other music teachers. So I think that's the foundation that's really important. um And our particular group are those that either, you know, you don't have to be trained to be part of the organization or to go to a local workshop. um Just putting the learning out there so that other teachers can access it really is the goal. And then
00:33:47
Speaker
you know, people's participation in the local chapter is, you know, maybe it becomes formalized at some point that they become a member of our organization. But really it's, it's just people actively pursuing new learning to grow themselves as educators. And then other people deciding at some point, you know what, I want to help create that.
00:34:08
Speaker
Like I'm at the point where I want to give back to the community and you know, we're all at different stages in our career. So that's the most important thing that I think the organization represents. Um, we are inspired by the Kodai philosophy of teaching and the principles associated with that or something that we're now always expanding. So when you go to a local workshop or certainly when you come to the national conference that we have each year,
00:34:36
Speaker
you're getting exposure to lots and lots and lots of of ways of teaching, new ideas, maybe it's inspiration, maybe it's techniques, but we're all learning from each other with different backgrounds. you know What areas can we pull from and stretch to expand a modern concept of Kodai teaching? So um what I get from my Kodai training was I saw a path for how to bring to my students the world that is music making, but I learned some some distinct things to include and ways to present those teaching concepts to my students. And from there, I continue to flourish as my own teacher, um but were founded on the philosophy of you know making this accessible to every student, starting where the student is and using active elemental ways of teaching.
00:35:35
Speaker
um but then also with a very intentional framework that actually gets kids from one step to the next because the teacher has thought through how to do that. So that's more about the training. As far as our organization, um people usually join it so that they um can be even closer, more involved with their local chapter or the division events. And again, attend our national conference that we're holding each year. Well, one thing I'm really glad to hear you say Um, that you just said a little earlier was to come to a workshop. You don't have to be code. I trained. You don't have to be, cause I bet people say that to me with the AOSA, I've invited somebody to one of our chapter workshops and, and every once in a while they'll say.
00:36:22
Speaker
Oh, I'm not trained in ORF. It's like, well, you don't have to be. It's about the networking with the other teachers. It's about the learning. It could be just be an introduction for you. and And this might be the first experience you have with it. And I think that's really important because we're building that community. And like you said, maybe after going to a couple of workshops, they might now be inspired to say, well, I kind of want to be a member of this organization or I want to I want to keep coming to workshops or I want to go take a levels course and just planning those seeds because we have to keep doing that, whether they're new teachers or we're all looking to learn new stuff. So I think that's really important. I'm glad you said that.
00:37:03
Speaker
um Yeah, I was I was involved in doing things before it occurred to me to become a member um because I was participating and giving and getting and all of this um before that moment and I'm I'm nearly positive that it's when I decided to attend a national conference that You know all members get discounts to attend local workshops and the national event So that's the point where a lot of people say, OK, I'm finally going to go in. Like, I believe in this. I want to continue supporting it. I want to make sure this approach continues to thrive in the United States. And also, you know, I want the benefit of getting discounts at things and you know accessing
00:37:44
Speaker
you know, 50 years worth of publications and things that are on the website through our Kodai Envoy, which is now all online. um And so I think those are some of the reasons that people might join, but just being part of it all, being part of the activity and the learning, you don't, you don't have to be a member and you don't have to be trained for that. Good teaching is good teaching. Get the experience, you know? Well, yes, I, 100% I'm with you on that. Um, so can we talk a little bit about, um,
00:38:14
Speaker
the national conference you have coming up in March, and maybe just some highlights that you wanna say that you know or have.
National Conference and Advocacy for Educators
00:38:24
Speaker
I've never been to your conference, so I'm kind of excited to hear about it too, and some of the things that go on at the conference, and whatever you wanna say about that. Yeah, well, all of our events, well, first of all, we host an event, a national conference each March, um and for the next several years, it'll be in Chicago downtown.
00:38:44
Speaker
ah which is a great city, I love being there. And all of the events and presenters at our upcoming spring conference is on our website right now, so oake.org. And you can click on conference and see all the events that we're planning for this spring. And it'll be the first weekend of March. So, you know, if people can plan to attend, fabulous. um And if it's not something in the books for them this year,
00:39:11
Speaker
you know, we'll be there again next year and it's great every single year and planned, you know, all the events are chosen by music teachers. So it's just responsive to what people think we need that year. And it's always incredible, incredible presenters ah that are, you know, people active out in the classroom. So I think what's helpful is to know that regardless of your background,
00:39:38
Speaker
either in instrumental or choral or general music, there will be something for you at the conference. Kodai believed in music for a lifetime, and that is part of the philosophy that all of us ascribe to, and that's represented at the conference as well. So I know a lot of people think of the Kodai approach as being elementary for some reason, um and then then you go on to you know, choral or instrumental applications or, you know, all of the other types of things that we're seeing pop up in music education now. And I would say there's an experience for everyone at the National Kodai Organization, and you will absolutely find other people with some similar experience and similar background. And we're really trying to
00:40:27
Speaker
lean way more into building community. like This is our one chance to get together with our people every year, so we have a good time. um It's funny, if we leave too big of a break in the schedule, I hear about it from our attendees. They're like, we want more. We want more learning. We don't want to break. we don't want you know ah So that's like the spirit of the people that are there is that people are just growing and connecting. And ah that's one of the fun aspects of it. But, you know, we intentionally plan concerts and social events. One really cool thing this year, we do a Thursday night community dance each. That's like a rival day for everyone. And we also have ah four national choirs, which are students from across the country.
00:41:14
Speaker
And Thursday night, we all come together and do a community dance. And this year, Melissa Fuller Flores is presenting an evening of folk dance and pop hits. So um it's just like really engage of active music making and with the folk dance tradition, you know, combined with things that students really respond to.
00:41:34
Speaker
in modern life too. So that'll be really fun. And then we have affinity gatherings, um our annual membership meeting, and just lots of times to come together in addition to the breakout sessions and general sessions with which are just lots of good music education learning. So yeah, we'll be in downtown Chicago for the next few years. Yeah, it sounds like a great conference. And you don't just to clarify, you don't have to be a member to attend the conference.
00:42:04
Speaker
No, members get a nice discount. Yeah. But we also have an early bird discount, which actually passed in January. But, you know, every year if people can get in before that January deadline, then they'll have a it'll be more affordable for them. But also, yeah, we're still people can show up to the conference and and join us. It sounds great. It sounds great.
00:42:30
Speaker
um Do you have any, um as far as the conference, do you have any suggestions for teachers to on how to advocate to their administration? Because I know some teachers battle, they say, well, I'm not allowed to go to conferences. They don't allow that. And I always think it's a little battle to how do you advocate to your administration, why this is important for me to go.
00:42:56
Speaker
Yeah, this is probably the most heartbreaking thing to me because my belief is that the way we the way we make education better, not just music education, the way we make education better is by investing in the teachers.
00:43:11
Speaker
and When we're talking especially about a professional event where they are nourished and inspired, they come back excited with new tools, new ideas, and also some long-term vision and a professional community that continues to support them for their whole career, I can't believe we're having to have so many conversations across the country about how can we make it so that teachers can do that.
00:43:39
Speaker
That breaks my heart um because it's just a way to do your job better, but it's so much more than that. and ah one you know There's different things, different challenges everywhere I'm hearing different schools and states and districts are all facing different things. um But one thing that I think really makes a difference is think outside just administration.
00:44:02
Speaker
So does your PTO have a little fund or could you have a conversation with them about maybe starting something for the future where they want to support their teachers or their music teacher getting to attend some professional events? I think the the communication piece is really important. And what I've heard from people and what worked for me is you know you're building a relationship all year long where they see the benefit to the students.
00:44:30
Speaker
But when it comes time to ask for how you can get some help and you are talking to say your principal, show them the website, highlight a few events that you say, look, this I think will really resonate with this population of our students. This is something that I'm just personally really excited about and have been thinking about. And now I'm going to get some professional ideas on what to do, but show them the events, explain why. Why do you think this will benefit you?
00:45:00
Speaker
and specifically not just you, but how will it show up in the classroom? And beyond that, in the in the school community and the feeling of the school, because we know that the music classroom is the heart of sort of the the culture of any school population. um And then also on our website, we do have a little template. It's called a district support template. And so if you go to the OAKE website at OAKE.org, you can click to the conferences page. And if you scroll down, there's a template there that you can use to to ask and it'll get you started on that conversation.
00:45:38
Speaker
Well, I think everything you just said, it was very well said. If you were here in person, I would just want to give you a hug because that was like so nice to sit. Okay, so one one last question before we get to our special surprise. um Just kind of overall, as far as the organization and you personally, I mean, all through the years that you've been part of this organization, what has it really meant to you as a musician, a teacher, and just personally?
Impact of the Kodai Approach on Personal Growth
00:46:11
Speaker
So I know for me personally that i am I am at my best and I am most purposeful when I'm helping other people go a little further and find what what makes them more alive and what makes them you know feel better about their situation and their capabilities. And and that is a place where I like
00:46:35
Speaker
to put my energy. And so as a teacher, being trained to do something that brings students joy just any day they show up, we can have a joyful experience.
00:46:50
Speaker
That is gold. That is absolute gold. But then when I know that the bigger picture is that they are learning more about themselves, they are feeling more capable and feeling the artistry, you know, like be part of who they are. And then they're also starting to recognize that in other people. That is what I loved about being a code I teacher because I had that inspiration and that vision that I could hold for them. But then,
00:47:19
Speaker
Also, I got the tools to really help make it a reality. And because of that, I enjoyed my job more. I enjoyed feeling a sense of purpose. And so that is what it meant to me as a person, but also part of being trained in the Kodai approach is that you grow as a musician. So you know I felt those same things happening in myself and got a sense of accomplishment from that. And you know it was confronting sometimes. I grew up singing in honor choirs, but I went the percussion and piano route
00:47:54
Speaker
you know where you hit the right thing at the right time and so I didn't have the confidence going into my co i training that I could sight sing as well as some of my peers. So you know I had to face some of those things and it turned out to be really fun and made me such a better musician.
00:48:09
Speaker
And so I'm thankful for that because I didn't go in looking for that. I just ended up getting that. um And then the fact that you know I get to help an organization make sure that that type of experience continues happening and growing throughout the United States, that's huge for me now. So you know that's what it means to me at this point professionally as well. I love your answers. therere You're a very wise teacher, I'm just going to say. OK, so we do this little thing at the end. It's called the lightning round. And I know you didn't know this was happening. So there are no wrong answers. There are only like five questions. They're very easy. So I love these because I love to hear what people have to say. So here we go. What? And you can have more than one, but favorite folk song.
00:49:06
Speaker
My favorite folk song? I do not have a favorite folk song. I lose this challenge. I lose this challenge. Well, I know. Our West music president, I asked him favorite song. And he had to get out his Spotify list. And he gave me like six. So he wasn't going to settle on one. And I said, OK. What's yours, Karen? What's yours? What was it? Yeah, what's your favorite folk song? My favorite folk song?
00:49:34
Speaker
um I have a few. Well, one of my ones I used to like, but then I found out the background. And so I don't really think I'm going to do it anymore. It was the Land of the Silver Birch. I always liked that song. And then when I found out some of the additional lyrics, I was sad because it was like, no, I like that song.
00:49:54
Speaker
um Actually, one of my one song I really like, I don't know that if it's actually a folk song, but it's at Christmas time as I wonder, as I wander.
00:50:06
Speaker
I don't know that I call that folk. Folk is music of the people. Folk music is music of the people. Oh, that's a good one. So there's modern folk music. There's stuff that goes way back. People hold ah some ideas about what that phrase means, but it's music of the people. Yeah. Okay. How about this one? Hopefully this one's easier. Favorite movie musical.
00:50:33
Speaker
favorite movie musical. Oh, I'm such a bad musician that I don't have an answer for that one either. um I'm trying to think of just some of the really nice experiences that I've had. um
00:50:49
Speaker
I do love going to some of my live local stage productions. Sure. I've not ever really been a huge musical gal. I know I'm probably going to lose some people here, but that is the case for me.
00:51:05
Speaker
Oh boy. Okay. Two failures here. Okay. Well, this one you can't fail because you have to answer one or the other. Okay. Would you prefer um a waltz or a tap dance? Well, oh golly.
00:51:22
Speaker
The beauty in answering these questions is the why. Why do you choose this? um I would have to go to with tap because that was something I always wanted to learn and it's like way more up my alley, I think. Oh, I love it. Okay. Well, you'll like this one since you're a percussionist. um Which instrument is overused, cowbell or kazoo? Neither because we always need more cowbell.
00:51:55
Speaker
And I'm gonna say the same is true for Kazoo, but maybe not in my house. Oh my gosh, I love that answer. Okay, and your last one, I'll stop torturing you. um Do you remember your first live concert? Oh, you mean that I attended or participated in? um It could be either one.
00:52:17
Speaker
So this is strange. Again, I'm not answering your question and I really didn't don't mean to be that difficult. But the first, the first thing I remember performing in was, uh, my elementary, it was actually a ballet production. You know, it was a little dance production of, uh, we did carnival of the animals and that I have so many memories from that. Um, first concert I attended,
00:52:46
Speaker
man I'm thinking rock concerts because I grew up on that stuff. so I'm sure there were other things before this, but I remember going and hearing ah the band 311, which you know this would have been late 90s at this point.
00:52:59
Speaker
and and and ah My favorite band at the time was this group that's still around called Incubus. They're a pop group, not pop, but you know it's a rock and roll group.
00:53:11
Speaker
and Yeah, those are the ones that that I can remember. Oh, very good. Well, yeah, I know it takes you way back. It's like, what was my first? um Okay, so before we close, um just really quickly, can you go through where we find you guys online? I know you have your website, and then I think you have a couple other places too.
00:53:34
Speaker
Yeah, so you can find OAKE. Usually we go just by our acronym, the Organization of American Kodai Educators, but obviously that's a mouthful and involves some Hungarian words that most people aren't familiar with. So main thing is just go to our website, oake.org. From there, our Facebook page is just you know shows up right there on the front page, and you can scroll to the bottom and click through to our other social media channels.
00:54:05
Speaker
but you can find us on all of those. And actually we have we have some interesting podcasts. and Those are for members and, you know, same for our publication, but we've started putting out more of our and online magazine articles in a public format that's just open to anyone. It's worth it to click through to the Kodai Envoy part of our website and you can see those open articles that we've posted for for anyone to see.
00:54:34
Speaker
Perfect. Perfect. Well, you've got a lot. I know I'm following, I'm part of your Facebook group. So I get to follow your organization and see, and there's a lot going on. And I really enjoyed being on there because I get to see a lot of things that are happening. and and all of that. So yeah. and Let me mention, let me mention too that we have like our official Facebook page and that's the one link through our website, but also there's, you know, that's a little more like announcements. You can learn about things directly from us, but there's a decentralized, like just conversational Facebook group. um And so you can find that as well. Very good.
00:55:12
Speaker
Well, thank you, Lauren, for joining us. And thank you, everyone, for listening. This has been Play Now, Play For Life podcast with Aaron. And you can find us at westmusic dot.com slash Play Now, Play For Life. And we're also on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X. And you can find those links in the description. Play Now, Play For Life is a podcast by West Music.