Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 5: Leigh Ann Garner on Kodály & Playful Teaching
36 Plays4 months ago
How can playfulness transform music education? In this episode, Play Now, Play for Life host Aaron Hansen sits down with Leigh Ann Garner, President-Elect of the Organization of American Kodály Educators (OAKE), to explore the Kodály approach, playful teaching, and the power of community. Leigh Ann shares her journey from student to leader, her insights on blending Kodály and Orff, and why joy and creativity are essential in the music classroom. Plus, hear about OAKE’s upcoming national conference and how educators can stay inspired.
Organization of American Kodály Educators (OAKE) website: https://www.oake.org/
OAKE Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oakeorg
OAKE Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oakenational
Learn more about the OAKE conference and get a template for asking for support from your district here: https://www.oake.org/conferences/
Contact Leigh Ann here: preselect@oake.org
Learn more about this podcast at https://www.westmusic.com/playnowplayforlife
Visit our website for all of your musical needs! https://www.westmusic.com/
Follow us on social media!
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/westmusic
Instagram: www.instagram.com/westmusiccompany
Facebook: www.facebook.com/westmusic
Tiktok: www.tiktok.com/@westmusiccompany
X: www.twitter.com/westmusic
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/westmusic
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi everyone. You are listening to play now play for life, a podcast for music educators. I'm your host, Aaron Hansen. I'm a former music teacher of 29 years so and now a part of the West music team.
00:00:22
Speaker
Every episode with this podcast, we sit down and chat with experts in music education to learn about their tricks of the trade and topics in music education.
00:00:33
Speaker
And today we are talking to Leigh Ann Garner, who is the president-elect for the organization for American Kodály Educators.
00:00:45
Speaker
And we'll be discussing the organization.
Leigh Ann's Musical Journey
00:00:47
Speaker
We're going to discuss their the structure of the organization, the offerings for teachers, and their conference that's coming up. They have a national conference coming up. So lots of things to talk about.
00:00:59
Speaker
So welcome, Leigh Ann, to our podcast. Thanks for the invitation. It's nice to be here. And we are currently surviving bitterly cold temperatures. So here we are being warm in this conversation. But um so could we could we just start a little bit with, we like to get to know the people on the podcast.
00:01:19
Speaker
So a little bit about you and about your musical background, your your musical growing up. We all have different stories. and And maybe your first experiences with actually um Being part of the Kodály approach to teaching, kind of how that maybe came into your life, because that's always an interesting story, too, of how we all have those those experiences. Sure.
00:01:47
Speaker
Sure. um I would say that my first recollection of being a musician or wanting to be a musician and making music was literally when I was nine or 10 years old.
00:01:57
Speaker
And I had a ah wonderful um music teacher, elementary music teacher, who I still today, she's just magical. Her name is Judy Bond. She's one of the pioneers of Orff Schulwerk.
00:02:09
Speaker
um she was my but she was white She was my elementary music teacher as a child. my gosh. Okay. I'm already jealous of you because just hearing that name, I'm like, whoa.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yep. So, um so, and I just, she tells the story all the time that I told her at one point that I wanted her job or something like that. and we get a good laugh out of it, but I don't remember that. But all I remember is that she was the first person that really lit up music and the experience for me. And then of course, through high school, did the normal, sang in choir, played flute. um And then um decided to go to college, went to St. Olaf College,
00:02:48
Speaker
I um majored in K through 12 local music education at St. Olaf, have a BA from there. And um I ah then started teaching and I ah how I got turned on to the Kodály world was I actually student taught in Owatonna, Minnesota, which was a district that was very committed to the Kodály philosophy and actually committed to training all of their teachers.
00:03:16
Speaker
And so i student taught under Sue Lighthold. Many, many years ago. and um And she lit a fire under me, even though I was an Orff Schulwerk kid, because I was raised in Orff Schulwerk, to go this route. And so I taught for a year.
00:03:32
Speaker
And then I started my levels training at the University of St. Thomas. um After my first year of teaching and started my levels training then and also on my master's degree work and um moving into that. Upon finishing my master's degree, I actually was asked to become a teaching apprentice at the University of St. Thomas under Jill Trinka and Susan Brumfield.
00:03:55
Speaker
And I apprenticed with them for two years and then started kind of flying on my own in teacher training. All the while, I was a public school music teacher in Hastings, Minnesota. I spent 23 years there teaching public school. And the last um five years, I've been at St. Olaf College in Northfield, Minnesota, running the music education program there. yeah.
00:04:21
Speaker
That's kind of, that was kind of my path to how I got turned on to it. It has so much to do with relationships and other people and mentorship.
Joy and Playfulness in Music Education
00:04:28
Speaker
So I've done my best to, to make sure that I carry that, that path forward and honor Judy and Sue and all these people that were so bright to me. So Okay, so now you have me like, I have so many random questions. not your answer so well, let me ask this two ways.
00:04:45
Speaker
Sure. What drew you more to the Kodály approach? And how and then my backup question is, how do you kind of marry those together? Because you have background in both.
00:04:58
Speaker
I do. i have training in both. Yeah. um I have background and training in both. um They marry together very nicely, actually. And if anybody says that they don't compliment each other, that is not true.
00:05:11
Speaker
um That is absolutely not true. um I guess I never really had the... the Overall recollection that i this was something that I was i was switching gears with.
00:05:25
Speaker
It was just something that when I got into a classroom and started teaching myself that I felt very at home with and very comfortable with. And so did the students in that particular situation. And so...
00:05:39
Speaker
um I just wanted to explore it more. So that that's kind of how it happened. It wasn't necessarily a conscious decision. And at when we have students come to the University of St. Thomas, and I always, and especially when they they were, they're 21 and 22 years old, and they're just out of their undergrad, I always encourage them to do one level of each and do some Delcroze training as well.
00:06:02
Speaker
to get a feeling for where they feel most at home and what they want to explore. They should be exploring all of them, but you know, we, in this world, we are asked to to make decisions and in degree programs, we're asked to concentrate in something and, and whatever, but, but to really explore it and see.
00:06:20
Speaker
Um, but I, I really, um, I think what I draw from my Orff Schulwerk background and and especially from being taught by Judy is um she was so incredibly joyful and playful.
00:06:34
Speaker
And, um, And, you know, cause at 10, I wasn't watching her sequencing. I can tell you that right now. No child is. know i wish i could go work i wish you could go back I wish I could go back and watch video footage, but, but it was, everything was joyful and playful.
00:06:52
Speaker
And that's what I remember the most. And so carrying it forward, um You know, we Kodály people get kind of a bad rap as being kind of rigid and not fun. And that's not true.
00:07:05
Speaker
so i am i am getting as I'm learning with these with these Kodály podcasts, these last couple that I've done, and I'm learning a lot because I'm basically an Orv teacher. But I'm learning so much. And that word playful keeps coming back and in both approaches yeah and i just love to hear that because i think that's so important and for kids you know at 10 years old you're going to remember being playful yeah yeah You're not going remember how the lesson went. I mean, you know how it was sequenced. I mean, you're going to remember the playfulness and that I enjoyed this.
00:07:41
Speaker
And that they were sick and if they were safe in a setting to take risks and make music. And um I think that was part of it, too, was the improvisatory part of being in Judy's room and... and um being able to improvise and and take risks and do things. Because I think as I got older, when I was asked to do things like that or even be in front of ah professor in sight read or, know, um I really think that that some of that gave me some confidence to be able to do that in the fact that everything is not perfect. so
00:08:12
Speaker
um And that it's an exploration and a process. And even though we are highly sequenced and highly process-oriented, both Orff-ies Kodály people, there has to be fluidity to your process.
00:08:27
Speaker
And you have to pivot and change direction a lot. And if you're not, then then that's probably that can be problematic within the classroom. So um it's just it's just figuring it out how it how it put to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
00:08:43
Speaker
But that first piece is play and sing with your children.
Flexibility and Risk-taking in Teaching
00:08:47
Speaker
And if you're not doing that, the rest is not going to fall into place at all. So I'm off my soapbox now. Sorry.
00:08:54
Speaker
but yeah i just I love your soapbox. I think too, like the other hard part for us teachers, I mean, you and I are probably close in age here, but it's that slightly giving up of control too in lessons because, oh, this lesson is going a little different direction than I thought I was going to go, but that's okay.
00:09:15
Speaker
And I have to be willing to, as the teacher, That's fine. And not stay like, this is what I was intending. This is what, you know, you know what? Yeah. If this could turn out better than what you thought it was going to be.
00:09:28
Speaker
And, and yeah that flexibility, and To be able to take, for us to take risks too, because i have been in conference sessions ah doing improvisation assessment sessions that I've asked the gallery just to say, how many of you love to do vocal improvisation with your elementary kids?
00:09:45
Speaker
And no one raises their hand. And and I'll say, i set you up for that question, sorry. But I said, does someone want to tell me why? And they said, well, what if they fall flat on their faces? And I said, what if they do?
00:10:00
Speaker
but Okay. Okay. So then let's talk about some tools to get them to a place where they feel like they can successfully sing and break it down a little bit more because your kids aren't going to scat.
00:10:12
Speaker
That's not what they're going to do. Right. Yeah. You're talking you about bringing it them at their level. And then also you giving up that feeling of central control and the fact that it might not go the way you want it to. But then again, how are you going to pivot?
00:10:30
Speaker
Right. But don't deny them the opportunity because you're afraid. Take the risk. And guess what? You have tomorrow to try it again. and and some of us have five sections of fifth grade to try it the rest of the day. Right. so do overs happen all the time. So it's OK.
00:10:50
Speaker
Well, and I think it's. I totally agree with what you're saying. And i think not only in vocal improvisation, I think any kind of improvisation, you know, it's always a scary topic. Like, I just don't know what if they don't succeed. And it's like, that's okay.
00:11:07
Speaker
um I might not succeed. So tomorrow, like you said, we're going to maybe try it again. yeah, you know, you find out what we can do or, you know, what we can work on or how I can help with this or what that happens to be. But what's your, um I forgot to ask this at the beginning. So what's your current teaching situation?
00:11:30
Speaker
situation What are you doing nowadays? Yeah, so um ah exactly about four weeks before the COVID shutdown, was offered the position of assistant professor of music ed and director of music education at St. Olaf College in Northfield, Minnesota.
00:11:46
Speaker
So um I, yeah, so since twenty I started teaching in a room by myself on a computer and at the collegiate level um in 2020, and I've been there ever since. So I teach um elementary methods, middle school methods.
00:12:03
Speaker
um I also teach in the education department. I teach first year seminar and I oversee all of the instrumental and vocal music ed students at St. Olaf. So and their licensure.
00:12:15
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. And then before that, you were teaching elementary. I taught. Yep. I taught K6, K5, K4, wherever we were in the, you know, in the process um for one year in Southeast Minnesota.
00:12:30
Speaker
And then the next 23 was in the Hastings, Minnesota School District. Um, so, and then I also founded and started their elementary choral program there. And my, I think my fifth year there, I started it.
00:12:45
Speaker
And, um, today it's third and fourth graders, um, that were in the choir, but it started out as being a fourth, fifth choir, but our fifth graders are in the middle school now. So, um,
00:12:55
Speaker
yeah Well, let me ask you this question because this wasn't on our leading questions. ah Just because you work with college age students. and Do you find that a lot of the undergraduates are always looking for that secondary placement when they go out and do their visitations and things? Or is that different?
00:13:19
Speaker
It depends. It depends. So i um Okay, I'm just going to go back to the dark ages when I was a student at St. Olaf, also known as the 90s, which my students have no idea what day could that is. Yeah, with you. Yeah, I'm like, oh. Anyway, when I talk about 1995, they're like, what?
00:13:40
Speaker
You know. ah Like what I was hardly, yeah. not even a thought at that point. Anyway, i um, when I entered St. Olaf, all of my classmates wanted to be the next best high school choir director.
00:13:54
Speaker
And when I went in there, I was like, no, I actually kind of want to teach anywhere from age three to 10. ten And they were like, what? And honestly, there were some people and like, not only my friends and my classmates, but some faculty that had no idea what to do with because I, I did my work.
00:14:14
Speaker
I, I, I directed high school choirs. I worked with the Northfield youth choirs as an intern with, you know, course holds did all those things, but I wanted to play with children and that's what I wanted to do. So I see that shifting a little bit more now.
00:14:31
Speaker
Um, um, I'll give you an example. I have a i have a kiddo that is a very, very fine trombone player and um and is going to make an awesome high school choir- ah ah band director one day, except he student taught in Owatonna last year and got bit by the elementary bug.
00:14:51
Speaker
And he is now has a full-time elementary position and he's teaching vocal classroom right now in his first year of teaching. So, and absolutely loves it. And no matter what, if he goes on to to be the next best high school band director, which he will, um that experience is going to be so and incredibly valuable to him because he's going to understand children more.
00:15:14
Speaker
He's going understand his older students more. um So I would say that I'm seeing students that are more open-minded to it. And the other part of it is the beast of licensure in the state of Minnesota is they must student teach in the elementary vocal classroom in order to get their license.
00:15:34
Speaker
So they they have to do both. So there isn't a choice for them for their licensure. So get on the train and have a good time with it. you know and And I tell them, if you want to teach high school choral or high school instrumental, that's that's awesome. But you still have to do this and you have to put some effort into it.
00:15:50
Speaker
And they really do come around. They do a nice, nice job. So yeah. for the most part, because I think they realize how, how enjoyable it is. um And, and really creative and something outside of their comfort zone. And most of them are very amenable to taking on the challenge. They're, they're really good about it.
00:16:08
Speaker
Well, and I think what you're saying is so important because it i think in my experience, elementary gets the shorter end of the stick. Yeah.
00:16:18
Speaker
yeah And, but yet we're building the foundation. and if you have a good elementary music person, by the time they start band and orchestra or choir, i mean, they know all these rhythm concepts. They know all these things. They're like, yeah, I learned that. I already learned that music. Like I already know it.
00:16:38
Speaker
And, you know, I think that gets brushed under the rug sometimes that we're just playing games. We're just doing this. Well, no, we're also teaching a lot of content. In those years.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah i've I've had that experience with a lot of college kids. They come into my room and observe and I said, Oh, what do you think you're going to teach? um Well, I'm going to teach, you know, high school vocal, or I'm going teach high school band. And then they come in, they're like, well, I don't know. I mean, this is kind of really cool. What's going on in this room? Like, they're really, you're teaching a lot of stuff.
00:17:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. and So, I mean, yeah, i'm I'm with you. I mean, yeah. Could you also be a great high school band director? Yes, you could. I mean, you've got those skills, definitely.
00:17:21
Speaker
So, but but look at all the options. I'm glad that Minnesota requires that because in Iowa, um if you're vocal, you have to do an elementary setting and then a secondary. Now, instrumental, not necessarily. Right. And I was lucky. I got to do my student teaching a general music program.
00:17:39
Speaker
ah Because I was an instrumental major. Okay. Yep. But I got to do ah general music setting. And I was like, I think this is kind of what I really want to do Right. Right. You never know.
Advocating for Elementary Music Education
00:17:51
Speaker
And that totally changed my trajectory of what I did because yeah otherwise I wouldn't be doing what I was doing for the last 20 something years.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah. So you just don't know. mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, someone turned the tables on me and said, if you didn't do, if it was just a few weeks ago, someone asked me, if you didn't teach elementary, what would you teach? And I said, absolutely middle school.
00:18:14
Speaker
and they looked at me like I had four heads. Oh, bless you. Well, bless you because that I don't think I could do. but yeah Oh, they are so funny. i mean, they they they are fun. Not necessarily the middle school living in my home right now. He's, he can not be funny, but, but just in general, they just, they, they just, yeah, I, yeah, I love that.
00:18:35
Speaker
I love that just back and forth with that age and whatever, but. But yeah, I and I have utmost respect for secondary choral and instrumental because of the amount of time and energy they have to give to their jobs.
00:18:49
Speaker
um yeah Not being home, out of the house, you're trying to manage families. It is a different beast. And I also want to go back and give a huge shout out to my secondary community. um colleagues in the Hastings School District, I never once felt othered on that staff as far as we, they were so respectful of what we did at the elementary level and um always have been and huge advocates for us. So, and that's rare. And I just want, I i just want to acknowledge that publicly. that
00:19:21
Speaker
And you know, that makes all the difference in your department when you have that mutual respect. Mm-hmm. because they get what you're doing and there's nothing better than a band or orchestra or choir teacher coming to me and saying, they told me they learned this from you already.
00:19:38
Speaker
So thank you. And it's like, right wow Yeah, in 2009 or 2010, I think we spent um Martin Luther King Day because it was a staff development day.
00:19:49
Speaker
They wanted to know what we did at the elementary. They just kind of wanted to experience it. And so I did a full day of them with them just playing. And and actually they were like, you teach meter?
00:20:01
Speaker
And I said, yeah, I teach. Do you want to see how I teach meter? And they said, yeah. And so I taught them how I taught meter and they went, whoa, oh, wow. Okay. So it was a really, really good experience. We had a blast. We had so much fun. it was, they were, they were such good sports about it. They really were.
00:20:17
Speaker
So. That's amazing. i I, I love this podcast because I get to hear all these things and they're just, there's, it's so great.
00:20:29
Speaker
um Okay.
Mentorship and Leadership Journey
00:20:30
Speaker
So I'm kind of, pivoting here a little bit. But and so now coming out of like your first um introduction to Kodály approach, Kodály method, what kind of led you then as far as your pathway into this leadership role? Because you're now going to, you're the president elect.
00:20:49
Speaker
And I know this can go a lot of different ways with people as I've experienced myself, but anyway Well, ah we'll start with the most recent past. You've met Tom, and I've known Tom for many, many years, and Tom just wouldn't let it go far as getting me to run.
00:21:08
Speaker
and So that's that. But um going back, you know, 25 years now, it started with um just becoming involved with my local chapter, and with the Kodály chapter of Minnesota, which was at the time – um, being led by a bunch of my mentors and they just said, Hey, come in. And, and I'm sorry, I didn't, I didn't know enough to know what I didn't know. And so it was like, I needed to be at those Saturday workshops and things like that.
00:21:34
Speaker
And then, um, eventually it was like, you know, would you, would you like to join us and do some work with us? And so I ended up being chapter president. Um, I think I, I, I actually think twice because I covered for a friend who had a family emergency. So I think I did another year.
00:21:52
Speaker
um And then, um you know, and then you serve on the regional board as your chapter president, as the chapter president. um And then ah i think around, ah i I can't remember, but um shortly thereafter, I was elected, um i think, a regional rep on the national board.
00:22:12
Speaker
And then I served doing that. But then I kind of we had some administrative things go on within OAKE where they needed people to do some administrative work. And so I started doing some of their coordinating and marketing um for the journal for ads, ad coordinating and also um running the exhibits during the national conferences.
00:22:33
Speaker
So, um, I actually think that was almost 10 years worth of work that I did for them on the board. um and then I took a little hiatus in 2014 or 2015. And, um, you know, I was raising my kids and my two boys, they were really young and, um, uh, getting a doctorate at the same time and trying to do all of that. So I took a little bit of a break and, um,
00:23:02
Speaker
And during that time, I was asked a number of times to run for president-elect, and I graciously turned them down, just knowing that that was it wasn't the right time. And then and then Tom came and knocked about a year and a half ago and said, you know, it's time. And I said, oh, you think so? And he said, yes, it's time.
00:23:21
Speaker
So I asked for some time to think about it, and i actually called my dear friends, two of them who are past presidents, and said, do I do it? And they're just like, just stop, just do it.
00:23:32
Speaker
You're going be fine. You know, part of it wasn't that I didn't want to serve. Part of it was, you know, what, what goes into the capacity of this position and, um, you know, just, just finding out like what, what it would, would be like. And so my colleagues and friends were incredible. that that had served in this capacity were incredibly helpful in, in helping me make that decision and encourage me to accept the nomination. And of course, um, be lucky enough to win and, and get a seat. So, um,
00:24:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's it's been great. so But that was kind of my path. It started early. But it started at the grassroots level of just being with the people at the chapter level and um and meeting people in my graduate program, too.
00:24:20
Speaker
that That was another part of it.
Post-COVID Community Building
00:24:22
Speaker
yeah I kind of feel like our mentors in these organizations are angels because they're the people, of my opinion, that give you that push when you don't think you're ready or you don't think, Oh, I didn't think of myself serving in that position, but they say, you need to do this.
00:24:45
Speaker
You're ready. And it's great. Yeah. And I'm the same way with AOSA. I mean, I would, I was chapter president and then some people said, you need to serve on the national board.
00:24:57
Speaker
And I thought, Oh no. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, I was like you, I gave it some thought. I didn't have two boys at home, but I gave it thought. And then I was like, well, maybe I could.
00:25:08
Speaker
And I did. And, you know, then these other steps come along and it's like, no, I can do that. But if it weren't for mentors and friends saying, we need you, you need to look at this.
00:25:23
Speaker
And then you really think, yeah, maybe I could do that. Yeah. Yeah. ah Yeah. And if it if I completely agree and I look back because another another thing that instigated some of my work at the national level was I was a program chair ah a national conference. and Oh, yeah.
00:25:38
Speaker
I've done that job Two or one. like don't even remember. But I worked with Nancy Johnson and Ann Kay. Those you know, we were that we were the chairs of that conference. And that was amazing.
00:25:49
Speaker
You know, and encouraging us to continue our work. And Nancy went on to work for years for as the conference business director for OAKE at the national level. It was amazing at it. And um also, had I not taken that leap, I wouldn't know, Tom.
00:26:05
Speaker
We met on the national board, you know, um or through regional work. You know, um my best friend today, we met on the national board. um who lives out in New York I mean I think that you you just you just never know um there there are benefits to the work I'm not talking about just making friends the work has been amazing but you meet the most incredible friends yes yeah yeah through this work but I mean in whatever organization you're involved in i mean yeah so there's that too that if you ever needed them they would drop everything and be there for you so I think that that's that's just even better it's the best part of it so
00:26:43
Speaker
Well, and I think our organizations, they're so good at, how do I want to say this? I mean, yeah, we take care of the organization. That's number one. But we also take care of our people.
00:26:55
Speaker
Right. And so it's like having another family. Right. It is. Which is amazing. ah definitely is. So I just love hearing in from you. This is great.
00:27:08
Speaker
um So a little bit about OAKE. Mm-hmm. What would you say, i mean, just in general, I was kind of looking at your website a little bit for my own information.
00:27:19
Speaker
but What would you kind of say is your general kind of mission? and vision of the organization in general. Well, we just, it's kind of a big one, but no, it's okay. It's okay.
00:27:30
Speaker
Actually the board pre me, just before I came on um planning and development, spent a number committee spent two years with Tom working on vision and mission and, and what that looks like today for OAKE.
00:27:46
Speaker
And what they came up with was, you know, four categories, education, education, inspiration, advocacy, and community. Those are the four main goals and um visions that we have for what we want to do when we serve our constituency.
00:28:01
Speaker
The top two priorities right now at this time are building community, Post-COVID, that's the biggest thing, um coming out of our our bubbles and and coming back together and building community.
00:28:13
Speaker
And what does that look like post-COVID? Because it's very different. And then also sustainability, because let's be honest, these organizations are smaller now.
00:28:25
Speaker
And, um and at times can struggle. And I'm, and we've struggled, right? And, um and so what are we going to do to sustain this organization?
00:28:36
Speaker
And not only that, grow it in the direction that we want it to while building community. um And so that's been kind of the main focus that we've been working on. And so when I took over um planning and development committee as president elect from Tom, we're working on the the building community and the sustainability.
00:28:55
Speaker
um Sustainability cannot happen without people. That's the main thing. So when we look at what that means now, it means we need to build a safe community where people come again to learn, to um congregate, to make these friends, to feel safe learning new things.
00:29:16
Speaker
Okay. but also do it in a different way that might look different from a Saturday workshop. Because the the the platforms are different now. What our younger generation of teachers want is different now.
00:29:30
Speaker
um They might want something online. That's okay. You know, how do we do that? But first and foremost, it does not go from the top down, from national down. The sustainability in the building of the community starts at the grassroots level.
00:29:43
Speaker
And I don't think that that's ever changed or should have never changed in the in the history of these organizations, AOSA and any of them, is that it has to start at the grassroots level. So you have to get to those local chapters and really work with them on you know what it is that is making them sustainable and running sustainable.
00:30:03
Speaker
bringing people in and encouraging new teachers to engage young teachers and veteran teachers for that matter, right. That, that are coming out of COVID that really need a shot in the arm because that was very, very traumatic for seasoned teachers.
00:30:17
Speaker
Um, And that's no understatement. So, you know, i would have come out of that experience, you know, had I stayed at the elementary level and not taken the collegiate job, which I would have never known, you know, um at 25 years experience, having some major adjustments to make. and And I think about, I think back to that and and I really, really empathize with with my colleagues for that. So, yeah.
00:30:44
Speaker
it's seeing it within a new lens, but the lens does not change where it comes from. It comes from it comes from the local level and supporting them. so Well, I think you're, again, you're 100% right on. I mean, I agree with everything you said.
00:31:01
Speaker
I know that sustainability factor, one of the things we look at too is, like you said, how do we get down to these younger teachers now? You know, because we have to keep our...
00:31:14
Speaker
It's like church congregations, you know, we can't just let everybody age out. I mean, at some point, then there isn't going to be anybody there. So how do we bring up these new teachers and bring up new presenters and bring up new people to come and step into leadership roles and keep this organization vibrant and and living and keep going? And so i just just love everything you're saying because I can totally relate in my organizations too, that I'm involved in. I mean, i think they're all, they're all issues that we're dealing with. So I think those are just really important ones.
00:31:52
Speaker
One of the, one of the structures that we have at OAKE is we have the advisory council and the advisory council is, is all the chapter presidents and treasurers. And we meet with them at the national conference and,
00:32:05
Speaker
um I think under older models, advisory was like, how is the national going to advise you as a um as a grassroots organization.
00:32:18
Speaker
and I think we need to flip that thinking. I think that needs to be flipped completely. And I think it needs to be, I want to sit and listen to what their needs are and how we can run national better to support them because nobody knows better than our members.
00:32:38
Speaker
what we need. Right. So um yeah we have to we have to flip our thinking um as to, you know, as to as to how we want to structure that group and how we want that group to work. Now, we do have informational sessions like, you know, we had coffee and conversation in June and we said, OK, who wants to know about how to get their annual reports in on time? And they're like, we do.
00:33:02
Speaker
And we have a ton of questions. Okay. At that point, we're telling them how to, you know, yeah write up their budgets and stuff, right? That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like, what do they see on the ground? What do they see in their classrooms is happening on a daily basis that where they can meet the needs of their students.
00:33:22
Speaker
And then a national organization and a community of music teachers such as this can support them and also their group at the local level. um I think we have to shift our way of thinking as far as as far as how that
National Conference Preview
00:33:35
Speaker
goes.
00:33:35
Speaker
So. I agree. And and the only way you're going to know is what are your struggles at your chapter? We need to know your struggles so then that we as a national can.
00:33:49
Speaker
okay how can we assist with that? Yes. And that's yeah that's why we have regional representatives and that's why we have division presidents. there there are but i was just online with them this week saying, all right, let's check in with our chapter presidents. It's mid-year.
00:34:03
Speaker
They're going to be at the conference. And they were like, yep, absolutely. We're on it. And they're they're doing phone check-ins and just to see how things are going mid-year. And and I think that that's really important. Well, let's go on. Let's talk just a little bit about your conference that's coming out Yeah. and what are What are some either highlights or things you're looking forward to or things people would enjoy anything above?
00:34:29
Speaker
Yeah. So we just, I think the fact that it's the the ah overall theme of it being the storytelling and, and, um and you know, re-envisioning what what the Kodály philosophy looks like through true story and where we are in our in our history is um is pretty amazing. Our program team's done a wonderful job.
00:34:55
Speaker
um i think Michelle Milbin as our keynote who worked for President Obama, I think is going be fascinating um and, you know, very Chicago-esque, right? Okay. And then... um And then the Uniting Voices of Chicago cannot wait to hear them as far as our opening.
00:35:12
Speaker
um But I think ah our mini conference and our in our closing um mini session on Sunday are amazing bookends to an amazing program. Gabriella Montoya-Steer is going to explore um Spanish folklore of the Southwest in our mini conference as an opening.
00:35:30
Speaker
and the stories of Spanish folklore, which I, yes. And then, um and then Rekha Shenyuk is doing, um it's basically what would Kodály do in the choral world today?
00:35:44
Speaker
Which I love because when I'm sitting in, I'll just tell this little story. When I'm sitting in oral comprehensive with graduate students, I would always say, what would Kodály do today? Yeah.
00:35:56
Speaker
You know, how do you envision that what would be happening today if you were sitting in this room? Right. And so I think she's going to be taking a little bit of slant on that with as far as choral pedagogy goes. So i um that's going to be awesome.
00:36:11
Speaker
The other thing is um we we've really done the program team's done an amazing job of of um creating events and things that, again, are going to ah build community like community dance. We have lots of social events.
00:36:25
Speaker
um We have great tracks for anybody coming out. We have um instrumental, we have secondary choral. We have performances. We have um one of my former students who is going to do a teaching demonstration with her kids from the University of Chicago Lab School.
00:36:42
Speaker
um I have another colleague on the board that is doing a conversation, um ah um a session on conversations with culture bearers, which will be awesome.
00:36:53
Speaker
um So and then there is the overall, you know, you want great pedagogy sessions with amazing repertoire and um and that there it's just chock full of of things to do and see but there's something there's a little something for everybody there's also we also have a trap track that's educate the educating of teachers training teacher trainers as well so they come and do a little bit of pd in those sessions as they go out and teach
Membership Benefits Overview
00:37:20
Speaker
in levels training during the summer so um there's lots lots going on and then of course our our national conference choirs so which is always exciting
00:37:29
Speaker
I think and it sounds like a great conference. Yeah, it is. And it's at the Palmer house in Chicago. It's a historic hotel. It's absolutely gorgeous. And a little bit of trivia is the final scene of the fugitive with Harrison Ford is, is a shot in the main ballroom there.
00:37:49
Speaker
so Oh, interesting. Well, that's an interesting tidbit. Yep. So if you ever watch The Fugitive from, oh my goodness, back to the 90s, that's where it was filmed. Okay. So let me ask this about about your organization. Are there are there particular um membership benefits, maybe scholarships, grants, anything of that kind of nature?
00:38:13
Speaker
Yes, we, um member benefits are of course discounts on anything as far as PD is concerned, chapter events, um national conference, anything like that.
00:38:25
Speaker
they have access to the Kodály Envoy, which is our online publication. um And then also um we also ah have scholarships for students that want or for members that would like to participate Study and levels training um during the summer.
00:38:46
Speaker
I've written many recommendations for students for for those scholarships. And also scholarships for when they have um summer institute training in Kachimit Hungary.
00:38:59
Speaker
um we will We have um sponsored students to go over and and study there during the summer. So um lots of lots of different benefits to to
Goals for Upcoming Presidency
00:39:10
Speaker
membership.
00:39:10
Speaker
um ah to our organization. so So is there a, I'm just showing my ignorance now with this question, but so is there an actual Kodály Institute in Hungary? Yes.
00:39:23
Speaker
and case Kind of like the Orph Institute in Salzburg. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yep. Sister school. So, yep. Yep. And what do they offer? Do they do like a summer course or...
00:39:35
Speaker
They do. They offer they offer summer training. If I'm not mistaken, this could have changed over the years. It's usually every other summer that they offer it. And then, ah of course, if you want to go as as a graduate level student and study for a semester, you can do that during the academic year.
00:39:57
Speaker
um so So I tried, I actually tried to do that back when I had no children and no husband and and was starting my graduate work, but I wasn't able to get a sabbatical to, to, to do it for a semester. But, but yeah, I still think that that's an opportunity. So.
00:40:13
Speaker
Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. Okay. um Well, let me ask you one more big one. Sure. So as you now, well, two questions. So when will your term as president start then?
00:40:28
Speaker
My term as president starts in March of 2026 at the national conference. Okay. you have another year.
00:40:38
Speaker
i have another year. Yep. And then it's two years as president and then two years as past president. So it's a six year, six year term. Okay. Do you, as far as coming in as president, do you have any really specific goals for the organization that you're looking to to really grow on, expand, or you kind of touched on this a little bit earlier a couple things that the organization's doing.
00:41:05
Speaker
Yeah, I'm really starting to hone in on the sustainability thing. And as far as that's concerned, um and and it always takes time. It's been, you know, I told Tom, I feel like since March, I feel like I've been drinking out of a fire hose with information and just trying to familiarize myself with with taking over some committees and and things like that.
00:41:25
Speaker
um I think one of the main things is um seeing more of that shift with with advocacy for the local chapters with the advisory board.
00:41:36
Speaker
um I think that that's really important and continuing to work with them directly. The other um is, um and I haven't necessarily been able to get started on this yet, but we had touched on this earlier, Erin. We had talked about the fact, like, how do we reach undergrads?
00:41:53
Speaker
So um I think that that's important too. And that again, goes back to the local grassroots and partnering with, you know, in, you know, for, for us, it's, it's partnering with colleges around here with Kodály chapter. Right. And then, you know, what does, what does Kodály educators of Iowa, how do they, how do they partner with local, local colleges like Simpson and and Luther and in all of those, Iowa state, things like that to bring people in.
00:42:22
Speaker
and um And cultivating those partnerships so that we get students in the door as early as possible experiencing some of these things and actually um working with and speaking with teachers that are practicing And I'm not talking about necessarily in a setting where they're where they're coming in to observe you, right, or their their student teaching or whatever, but they where they're in a professional development setting with other teachers from around the area and what that looks like and feels like. And I think that that's really important. And and again, that goes back to the grassroots part of it.
00:42:56
Speaker
That's the only thing that's goingnna that it's going to really start to grow and bring people through the door as far as um where we want to go with the organization. And again, continuing to build community and and um and then things like that. so But I'm just starting to see the light of what that path might be like for when I take over as I'm sipping
Adapting Strategies Post-COVID
00:43:17
Speaker
over. Well, and i think I think you really nailed it with that whole statement because I think after COVID,
00:43:26
Speaker
things changed. And i think it's almost like going back to our grassroots of word of mouth. You find those new teachers that are out there. You find those schools, those undergraduates, and it's just that word of mouth of getting them in. i mean, we've just almost gone back to that.
00:43:46
Speaker
This was 20, 30 years ago where it was like, go find a friend and bring them to a workshop and get them coming. And it's almost back to that kind of same Walk them through the door.
00:43:57
Speaker
Right. yeah ye Yep. Yep. And also looking at a different, different, how, how are we sustaining our, um what what are we doing ah programmatically at the local level, as far as PD is concerned and things that are different from the Saturday workshop, because there might be a population of students or of young teachers that are like, I'm not doing that on a Saturday morning.
00:44:18
Speaker
I mean, let's be honest. Right. I mean, when it comes down to it, When it comes down to it, how are we going to meet their needs and the needs of their students best? And it it might not be that four-hour workshop on a Saturday.
00:44:30
Speaker
It might be something else. And in exploring those options. But the one theme that I have heard from many chapter presidents is that if they do something where they first build community,
00:44:42
Speaker
Like, for instance, they folk dance together or they, you know, or they do, but I people love to do sip and sings, if you know what I mean. You know, um yeah yeah get out get out the solfege and have some wine while you're doing it.
00:44:59
Speaker
i'm I'm going to tell you, building that foundation first is going to get the buy-in to to doing the PD work and wanting to to grow what they're doing. Now, platforms, whether that's online, whether that's in person, you know I think a combination of both is very helpful.
00:45:15
Speaker
um And so just rethinking what what we're what we're offering. And I don't have all the answers to that. I'm not saying that I do. But I think we're going to have to do that in order to sustain our organization.
00:45:25
Speaker
Well, i think ah I think your answer is a very wise answer because I think that's very true for any of us, any of our organizations. I mean, to keep our sustainability, keep our membership up, you know, keep our attendance at conferences up, all of that. So I think i think it's all very wise and well said.
Conclusion and Personal Reflections
00:45:48
Speaker
um Okay, now we're coming to this fun part of our podcast.
00:45:55
Speaker
And I know you don't know these questions and there are no wrong answers. So just so you know, there are no wrong answers, but we call this the lightning round.
00:46:05
Speaker
And they're just random music questions. So there are no, again, no wrong answers and there's no judgment with any of these. So, all right. Are you ready? ah This one was given to me by a friend. She wanted to know,
00:46:23
Speaker
What would be your favorite time signature to perform in?
00:46:31
Speaker
um To perform in? Oh, it's Well, sure. It's 6'8". Oh, 6'8". Yeah. Oh, that's a good answer. I like 6'8". It just feels good.
00:46:46
Speaker
It does. And it has that bounce. It's very natural. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. Okay. Well, I can't wait to see what you're going to say for this one. who Who do you think has more control in a choral rehearsal? The sopranos or the basses?
00:47:03
Speaker
yeah
00:47:07
Speaker
I'm an alto. This is going to get me in trouble. Yeah.
00:47:13
Speaker
Okay, sopranos most of the time, but if the basses are actually concentrating and not messing around in the back and the back row, because my best friends were basses, then they can they can wrangle in some control as well.
00:47:27
Speaker
They can do it. They have potential.
00:47:31
Speaker
They have potential. i yeah I agree with your answer. And the sopranos better be singing in tune, because if they're not, they are not in control. That's I'm going to tell you. So... let me tell you, I've had more fun getting these questions sent in to me. People, all my musician friends, like you need to ask them this. I'm like, Oh boy.
00:47:52
Speaker
Um, yeah do you have a favorite song from a musical? Oh, I'll be back from Hamilton.
00:48:05
Speaker
I'll be back. It's King. Oh, from Hamilton. From Hamilton. Yeah. Yes. When the King comes out and sings. That tells everybody's gonna <unk> everybody behead everybody.
00:48:16
Speaker
But you have to. The thing is, is you have to see him sing it in order to really reap the benefit of that. To really take it in. Oh, it's brilliant. Where did you see Hamilton?
00:48:29
Speaker
In Chicago. First time. Yep. I saw it in Chicago. yeah I haven't seen it yet. Oh, it's. I know. Fantastic. I know. Shame. Broadway shame. No, I don't shame anybody for not seeing stuff. want to see it. I just haven't been in the right place at the right time. to like Life happens.
00:48:46
Speaker
But yes, yes, that that is a highlight of of of the show. He's he's amazing. So, OK, well, here's another one. ah Which instrument do you think is overperformed? Bagpipes or the bassoon?
00:49:08
Speaker
Okay. I don't want say bagpipes. This was friend. I really don't want to say bagpipes because usually they're played at a funeral and that's just being respectful. know. I thought that too when I got this question. I was like, well, the only time I ever hear bagpipes is at a funeral. Pass.
00:49:28
Speaker
Can I pass? There are no wrong answers. All right, here's your last one. You might have to think about this one for a second. and um A favorite musical memory from your own life, something that either triggered your music pathway or just a, I don't know, maybe a song that, whatever.
00:49:58
Speaker
Um, I, I would say when I was a senior, we were, we, but that I was in the St. Old Choir and we toured Australia and New Zealand. Um, and I would say after that, it was an amazing tour and we had a great time and there was nothing better than, um, at the time when you can, when you could come home, you know, they could actually meet you at the gate. That's how old I am now.
00:50:24
Speaker
Um, just coming home and seeing an entire gate full of family and friends that met us there late at night after that long tour. But the next day, um absolutely our home concert at orchestra hall in Minneapolis and, um, all of our family and friends being there. It just, it was, it was a great culmination to an amazing time and an amazing choral career that I had, you know, that was about to end, you know, as I was leaving St. Olaf. So, um,
00:50:54
Speaker
For sure. no would No one particular moment, just the that that feeling of sincere gratitude um for everything that I had been afforded um up to that point.
00:51:08
Speaker
um And now I have moments, I find moments where I just have to, like, in my car where I have... Moments with kids. I still work with a youth choir and and whatever, and I'll just be at, I'll be in my car on the way home and I'll just smile and smirk at something that a kid said or,
00:51:26
Speaker
you know, walk in and little Tilia says bad hair day, Ms. Leanne. And I'm like, not to my knowledge, but obviously it is, you know, just those. They love to tell it just however they think it is, but.
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah. Just taking moments of gratitude to really kind of soak things in. um maybe it's cause I'm just getting older, but, but that one sticks out to me and just, just being, you know, feeling that much support and, um,
00:51:52
Speaker
And I hope we do that for our young musicians too. I don't want to be such a pressurized situation. And I tell my, I tell my own students right now that sing in the St. Old Choir, you know, and and, and, and whatever, soak these moments in, you know, take a moment to listen and just take a deep breath because it's not going to be there all the time. So um in any, any choral ensemble, but that particular one was the amazing.
00:52:17
Speaker
Well, and I don't know about you, but as I get older, You know, when I direct like an honors course or something, all of a sudden I'm conducting these kids and it's so beautiful. And I'm starting to, the words are sinking in Not like I didn't know the words, but they're sinking in and like, you're almost crying as they're singing because it's just so beautiful.
00:52:39
Speaker
And their voices are so innocent. Innocent. It's just. Yeah, it's great. it It is. It is. It is great. So, yeah.
00:52:49
Speaker
We had, what i went on tour and my senior year in high school. i went with the Iowa Ambassadors. We went over to Europe. And our flight um our flight home got delayed. So we're all on the plane.
00:53:02
Speaker
And everybody that was in the chorus, I was in the band, but everybody in the chorus started singing Let Me Fly because that was one of the songs they did on the tour. And it was just one of those moments where like...
00:53:16
Speaker
Oh, I take that. You know, we'd be sitting on a plane and now we're singing Let Me Fly. Can I take my answer back? Yeah. Well, other than getting the actual plane from Sydney back to L.A.
00:53:28
Speaker
was um we have a tradition in the choir that on the last ride of the tour, the seniors go from the front of the bus at a domestic tour to the back of the bus and parade and then pomp and circumstance and all sorts of songs and stuff.
00:53:44
Speaker
are sung at you. Okay. We're on a Boeing 747, Qantas airline. And one of my friends asked the flight attendants for permission to do the senior walk through the plane.
00:53:57
Speaker
So we started at the cockpit and we started at the cockpit and the, the, the, um the pilot got on and said that we were coming through in the entire plane saying pomp and circumstance.
00:54:11
Speaker
as we marched to the back of the plane and the flight attendants handed us little cups of champagne as we went by. so wait They toasted us like 300 people on the plane. They have no idea who we were. So that was a musical moment. It was really bad rendition of pomp and circumstance, not in tune, whatever.
00:54:27
Speaker
But I will say that that was probably pretty memorable. So get listen that is good thing. That's a good memory. We were probably not in compliance with the f FAA rules, but again, 1997 probably wouldn't happen now. but Or with Kodály tone quality regulations at that moment. It wasn't pretty.
00:54:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of like telephone. You know, you start popping circumstance in first class and then go all the way back. it going to put down it It's going to go down and pitch as it hits the back row. Yeah.
00:55:01
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I can love it. um Well, as we start to close down with this podcast, first of all, I just want to thank you. You are, you are a great person to talk to and it is so good to meet you. And it's so nice to meet you too. I don't think we've ever met in person, but I look forward to, i don't know, maybe I will get to Chicago. We'll see what happens. You should come.
00:55:24
Speaker
Where, as far as social media, all that kind of stuff, where would people look? I know I joined your Facebook page. um So I'm part of that now. and And then you have a website, of course.
00:55:38
Speaker
Yeah. ah You mean OAKE website? Sure. Yes. Yes. We have an OAKE website, OAKE.org. yep. And then OAKE has a Facebook page.
00:55:52
Speaker
um And also, um yeah. And then I have email if anybody wants to contact me about something or whatever. Amazing. All right. Well, thank you, Leanne, for joining us. And thank you, everybody, for listening, because this has been our Play Now Play for Life podcast with Aaron.
00:56:11
Speaker
And if you enjoyed this episode, consider subscribing and leaving a rating and review. And you can find us at westmusic.com slash play now play for life. And we're also on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X. And And you can find those if we still have TikTok.
00:56:30
Speaker
And you can find those links in the description. Play Now, Play for Life is a podcast by West Music.