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Episode 88 - The Incident at Galley House and Letter Lost
840 Plays6 hours ago
Roses has the vapors over a man who left her life after being yelled at in a pottery studio. After she mourns this loss, she and Matt discuss the fun (but flawed) Letter Lost and the innovative mechanics of The Incident at Galley House
Games Mentioned:
- Pokemon Scarlet/Violet
- Pokopia
- Pokemon Sun/Moon
- Buncha Other Pokemon Games
- Super Mario Odyssey
- Banjo Kazooie
- Letter Lost
- Forbidden Solitaire
- The Roottrees are Dead
- Type Help
- The Incident at Galley House
- The Colonel’s Bequest
- Life is Short
Email us! mattandroses@gmail.com
Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/fPv7hRgTeV
Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/saveyourgamepodcast
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Transcript
Consent and Humor in Personal Stories
00:00:00
Speaker
So I have a work story. Am I allowed to tell work stories? Between me and you on this private phone call before start the podcast? Yeah, on this phone call. I'm asking consent to share a work story with you, my friend. I do that? Thank you. I know you always have to.
00:00:17
Speaker
Please, before you ask me, before you tell me anything, you need to ask for my consent. Okay, do i do I have it? Remember that one time you said hi to me on the street and I for i didn't na and smud i freaked out. freaked out and i was I was traumatized for weeks and I made you pay my therapy bills.
00:00:37
Speaker
We didn't talk. I was just paying. i don't know. Somehow I was in your medical portal. if i was there Well, I've given you. Well, that I gave you access to my medical portal long a long time ago. Like, yeah, for that rash, right? Two weeks into our friendship. Two weeks into our friendship. I told you I had an unexplained rash and I said, can you handle it? And I gave you my password and username. Yeah. And I've been taking care of it ever since, honestly. You told, yeah you told my- It's time for your checkup, by the way.
00:01:09
Speaker
You told my doctor that you had the rash and you described my rash to her. I did a good job. And then she prescribed you medicine and then you mailed it from Chicago to my house.
00:01:24
Speaker
I mailed it express. Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. um Yes, that that's a real thing that really happened. And here's also a real thing that that really happened. so Yeah, why would lie to each other here in this private call? We would never. Never. You?
00:01:40
Speaker
No. So as you guys know, well, as you know. Who's you guys? I don't know who I'm talking know, need doctor shut up. We do that sometimes when we're having a conversation. Yeah. You just sometimes talk to an audience when it's just me and you.
Pottery Studio Encounters and Policy Mishaps
00:01:58
Speaker
Matt, I've been enjoying my job at the Pottery Painting Studio, as you know. i embarrassed myself the other week because... Yay! I told you this story. i already told you this story.
00:02:11
Speaker
yeah i'm going to retell it in case you forgot. so i know it Yeah, you don't know. i legit saw the hottest man I've ever seen in my life. He was super tall. He was like six five Here's the kicker.
00:02:27
Speaker
He had tattoos. And I don't like men with tattoos. I don't like spooky men. And yet... You have tattoos. I do. a Spooky women? Amazing. Spooky men? Terrible. Terrible. i like dorky, clean-cut men. This is unconstitutional.
00:02:45
Speaker
I'm really glad nobody's listening to this because if they were... Canceled. Canceled. No, they would just be in my comments being like, m'lady. So I'm so glad no one's listening to me explain my type ah to you right now.
00:03:00
Speaker
So i'm I'm... Incredibly tall.
00:03:06
Speaker
Generally tattoo-less. like a like a Like one of the aliens from the movie Signs. Oh, man. That is my type. Fuck.
00:03:17
Speaker
ah Giving me the vapors.
00:03:21
Speaker
Can I get on with my story? Okay, go ahead. just The vapors would make the aliens die. fuck. Right? Wasn't that the whole thing? They died from water or whatever? They did die from water. Yeah. can't even have the vapors. So you can't have the vapors or you'll kill your boyfriend. Fuck.
00:03:42
Speaker
the best conversation I've ever had. All right. I want to hear your story. Yeah. No, I don't listen, matt You know me. I i don't get – I'm pretty strong baddie, right? I would say this is a true thing about myself. I'm pretty confident. i don't really fall over myself when it comes to men.
00:04:01
Speaker
I was falling all over myself when it came this Like literally? Yes! I, like, tripped. Like, woo-woo-woo-woo-woo. like, classic rom-com girly situation. i fucking almost eat it.
00:04:15
Speaker
I'm trying to get the size of He around and caught you in one arm and he said, anticipat i love tattooed women with opinions. And he licked on your tattoos.
00:04:27
Speaker
to see any but but then But then he asked, if he said, oh oh, I thought they different flavors. um i thought they all had different flavors And then you were like, ah oh, okay, this guy is very dumb. I do have a few like raspberry tattoos. Is that like the snozzberry scene in Willy Wonka yeah where they want to see if it smells and tastes good? don't they do this? They should make flavored tattoos.
00:04:58
Speaker
Matt, please don't. Please, for the love of God. Flavored tattoos? Don't scratch and sniff my raspberry. scratch and sniff tattoo. a flavored... fuck Anyway, my story. I'm going to be a fidillionaire.
00:05:14
Speaker
Anyway, I'm connecting with this guy. ah We're making eye contact, man. Like, it's there. Like, it's heavy eye contact. I'm getting him his paint. He's like, oh, I really like your glasses. He's so nice to me for no reason. or You're giving him his paint.
00:05:30
Speaker
yeah I gave him his glaze. I guess he would be you know what and behave. So I let him do his painting thing, right? And at the end of his thing, he doesn't finish his piece. Now, at at the studio...
00:05:45
Speaker
You want to finish your piece because if you don't, you have to take it home. We can't hold it for you. We have too many ceramics. We don't want it to get lost if it's not. we just don't have a place for it. You have to take it home and bring it back. It's an club. Yeah. It's an exclusive pottery club. um So he's getting ready to take it home. and I'm with my coworker and it's just him. He was the only one painting today and he but he didn't finish it again.
00:06:10
Speaker
So meaning this would be his like second time bringing it back and And my coworker is like losing her mind. she slain She's like, no, we you can't do it again. We have a policy.
00:06:24
Speaker
and um'm i And she's like railing on this poor man. And all he wants to do is take home his little like radio pottery thing that he that he was working so hard on. And you want to be railing with this poor man. I want to be railed on.
00:06:39
Speaker
ah And so I'm trying to pivot because she's she's being like, well, you didn't finish it and that's how it is. I'm like, that's kind of a so that's kind of a stupid policy, right? right My coworker's name, who I will not name, let's call her Samantha. Right, Samantha? It's kind of a bad policy. No, that's our policy, and you cannot bring it back, and you just need needed to finish it. I'm like, this guy's never coming back.
00:07:01
Speaker
I'm never seeing this man again. I've lost the him. The meet cute has failed. It didn't work. By the way, one of our viewers accused me of brain rot because they think I have unrealistic expectations of meet-cutes. And I don't think I do. I think this was a great meet-cute that got intersected by intercepted by my coworker.
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, we did talk about meet-cutes in a pretty unhinged way before. But then, one happened for you. But then one happened, and then it got totally... So, like, I...
00:07:36
Speaker
maybe that's what the Maybe that's what the listener means is like it's unrealistic because coworkers will always ruin it. I don't have brain rot. You have brain rot. So, yeah. So he's looking kind of deflated.
00:07:52
Speaker
And my coworker is like, I'm going to go call the manager. i'm like, okay. And as as she leaves, I just kind of like whisper like, I'm so sorry. And he just like shrugs.
00:08:04
Speaker
That's it, man. That's it. There's nothing else. He just shrugs. I couldn't save it. I couldn't save it Oh, man, you were hoping maybe you guys would bond over how unfair this policy is to him. A little And you'd be like, it is unfair. And you're like, man, somebody should do something for you to make up for it. You know what I'm going to take you out for a cup of coffee.
00:08:25
Speaker
oh Then he left. I don't think he's coming back. He walked it he walked out of your life. And out of my heart. And out of your heart.
00:08:36
Speaker
And out of the pottery studio. Yeah.
00:08:40
Speaker
Flavored tattoos, though.
00:09:02
Speaker
Hey everybody and welcome to Save Your Game. I am your host Matt Aukamp and with me is the love
Podcast Introduction and Personal Favorites
00:09:10
Speaker
lorn, the heartbroken, the lonely, I'm just horny.
00:09:13
Speaker
the lovelorn the heartbroken
00:09:17
Speaker
never be a the lonely ah only i'm just horny
00:09:26
Speaker
um you know i consider this a podcast for the lonely you know some there's some like albums for the lonely and there's some like movies that are like it's like embracing that we are a podcast from the low if you're heartbroken you come to save your game me and you're like yeah these guys are singing my song anyway it's pushing up it's yeah it's pushing up roses everybody welcome her hello hello everyone how are you don't know why i'm expecting an answer how are you matt I'm doing all right. I'm doing okay. I'm a Pokemaniac.
00:10:01
Speaker
I know. It's my fault. It's your fault. that slightly I feel slightly yes guilty that you've been spending all your time playing Pokemon games.
00:10:12
Speaker
So you collaborated with a friend of mine to get me a Nintendo Switch 2 for my birthday. 40 years old. It was your 20th. So I thought that's a special birthday. It's a milestone. So I got to do something real special for my BFF mat. I'm 20 years old finally. Finally. God, it's been forever.
00:10:33
Speaker
Man, I can't wait to go to a bar. Oh, that's so cute. Drink a beer. um But at least you have Pokemon until then. when you Okay, hold on. When you turned 21, what did you order? like Did you know what to order at the bar?
00:10:49
Speaker
I did. i had a drink in mind that I really wanted. Oh, but that that can be such a heartbreaker. though okay It wasn't, though. It's my favorite drink of all time now. What was it?
00:10:59
Speaker
It's an Amaretto Sour. Okay, yeah, all right. That's common enough. It tastes like fermented cherries. I just love it. Because there's some people who will get that idea in their head of like, oh, I'm going to get a... And then it's some complicated cocktail that they heard about on a TV show or whatever. And then you go to the bar and they're like, I don't know how to make that. And I was... When I turned 21, remember being worried of that. Like, but maybe the bartender doesn't know how to make it. they don't They can't know how to make everything. They can't have everything here. Sure.
00:11:33
Speaker
Not knowing that a lot of bartenders, not unless you're in like a divey dive bar, which I do enjoy, but um yeah bartenders do like getting something they don't know how to make and being like, oh, I get to look it up and try a new thing. But anyway,
00:11:50
Speaker
um
00:11:53
Speaker
I remember being breathing really stressed about it because i well I was like, okay, often my favorite at that point, I was 21, my favorite quote-unquote cocktail. It wasn't really a cocktail at all. It's just like alu like a... Not even a white Russian. Just like a Kahlua and cream without the vodka. Oh, I love Kahlua and cream. Oh, it tastes so good.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yes, it's like a chocolate milk. It's like a coffee... yeah It's like a slightly coffee-y chocolate milk. It's like dessert. and i was like But I don't want to go order a white Russian. That's going to seem so
Nintendo Switch 2 and Pokemon Gaming
00:12:27
Speaker
fucking dorky.
00:12:28
Speaker
um Yeah. And then... I don't even remember. I don't even remember. And I was like, I don't know what the names of any drinks. I don't know what to do. Anyway, I'm 20 and I got a Nintendo Switch.
00:12:40
Speaker
And the first thing, the Nintendo Switch 2. And the first thing I bought was Pocopia.
00:12:47
Speaker
the um the We haven't talked since. It's basically the Animal Crossing. It's basically Animal Crossing, but Pokemon. It's not.
00:12:57
Speaker
Yeah. That's the very top level. I'm not going to get into like a whole review of Pocopia because it's not. This isn't. It's not the sort of video game we talk about on this show.
00:13:08
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. So as inaccurate as this is, I'll just leave it at the high level. It's like an Animal Crossing, but Pokemon. um it's And then as I was playing that, I was thinking about how kind of my last,
00:13:33
Speaker
the last Pokemon game I played, I was really disappointed in, and it was Pokemon Scarlet and Violet. Okay. I thought people liked that. No. People really hated that because it it wasn't really built to run on the Nintendo Switch 1.
00:13:57
Speaker
And it was released on the Nintendo. Remember the Nintendo Switch 2 got delayed because of the the you know chip shortage. Yeah. Yeah. It ran like fucking dog shit on the Nintendo Switch 1.
00:14:12
Speaker
And I'm not normally like a performance kind of... Like, I don't normally, like, pay a lot of attention or care that much about performance in games. But this was like...
00:14:23
Speaker
loading screens took forever. the The animations were like one frame a second. So it felt like watching like ah like a flip book. I mean, bret Breath of the Wild had issues as well.
00:14:37
Speaker
ah i No, nope, I'm wrong. Sorry. Nintendo's just weird like that. Breath of the Wild had issues running on whatever was before the the Switch.
00:14:48
Speaker
Like the Wii U? Yeah. The Wii right? the The thing that's after the Wii U, right? Is the Switch.
00:14:59
Speaker
Wii console. Yeah, yeah, it was the Wii U. yeah Yeah. So I just, Nintendo is weird with their, I don't know. They're like always slightly behind.
00:15:12
Speaker
I think that's a cool thing to do is release your, so if the Nintendo switch two had already been out and they released it on two for two, but then released it also like ah like a, like a kind of shittier version on Nintendo switch one.
00:15:26
Speaker
i I like that idea. It's like, Hey, if you can't afford this console and you still have this console, Here is a playable version. It's not yeah exactly what you want, but it it'll get you by. yeah Anyway, but this this was released when the Nintendo Switch 2 wasn't out.
00:15:44
Speaker
Okay. so So it was like barely playable. People just assumed it was released. And I think it was. People just assumed it was like rushed and done poorly. And it's like, man, this is really low quality for a Pokemon game. This sucks. That suck yeah sucks. Yeah, it sucks.
00:16:03
Speaker
And was really just annoying to play.
00:16:07
Speaker
I was like, what ah how does it run on the Switch 2? And a lot of games on the Switch 2 have this like free upgrade. um That's nice. And it like upgrades some of the textures and some of the, you know, whatever. I don't i don't know no and know all the technical stuff. But it upgrades little, like a, like ah like a Like an enhanced version.
00:16:34
Speaker
yeah um Yeah. So i was like, ah you know going to give it a try. And I fucking love oh yea Pokemon Scarlet. i am I am re-hooked on Pokemon. That's that's great. That's great to hear.
00:16:52
Speaker
have... was so i have I maintain like a Pokemon. I have a Pokemon home account. So I mean maintain like a bank of all my Pokemon. Right. um Yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
That I've collected over the whatever decades. And i have an almost entirely living Pokedex, meaning.
00:17:16
Speaker
I have one of every type of Pokemon in my Pokemon home. Right. Like not just, I have them registered as I, you know, caught them and involved them. Like I have one of every type.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah. That I could withdraw and use if I wanted to. um Until it gets to the end of Sword and Shield, which is when I started to lose interest. And i what i one thing that I found it does is there's you can there's a calendar function. So you can look when you caught things.
00:17:47
Speaker
And what I realized is about every three to four years, I go fucking nuts for Pokemon. but And I'll have, like, this massive amount of Pokemon that I've caught and registered and, like, super rare ones that I, like, got from, like, the the special events that you have to, like, go to ah go to some store running a promotion and get a little card and put it in.
00:18:17
Speaker
So I have, um so every like, every three to four years, there's just like this glut of Pokemon and i'm I'm back in it now. So I'm almost done Scarlet and Violet. And I know when I get to the end of it, I'm going to go back to Sword and Shield and finish what I didn't. And then like, man, I might play it again so that I can get extra legendaries so that I can trade for the ones that I don't have.
00:18:45
Speaker
i just I just want Oddish. That's all I want. oh Just an army of Odishes. They're so cute. oh come on They're so cute. I will say, and Nintendo Switch 2s, they're not the most affordable right now. They're not. understand and and I honestly don't think it's worth playing. well Unless you're extraordinarily patient, um I don't think it's worth playing on the Switch 1. But if you're a Pokemon fan listening...
00:19:14
Speaker
and you skipped over Scarlet and Violet because of the performance issues and all the complaints people were having, it is probably the best story of any Pokemon game that I've ever played. and it's it's the best gameplay style. i'll just I'll talk about it real quick, and then I'll drop it. I wanted to more talk about how I'm obsessed with Pokemon than the actual games.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um But I'll do a quick explanation. Instead of... the Your only thing is you're sort of going gym to gym to gym until you've beat all eight gyms and then you take on the ah the Pokemon League, the Elite Four.
00:19:55
Speaker
hu In this game, when you go to leave the town... You're like a new student at this ah Pokemon Academy, right? And when you get there and when you go to like leave the Academy and whatnot, you you sort of make three friends.
00:20:13
Speaker
um and And all three of them send you on different quests. And you can sort of do them in any order that you want.
00:20:24
Speaker
So one is hunting down these very these special... titan Pokemon across the... across the region that are these these big, dramatic battles um with these, like, you know, altered versions of Pokemon that you've seen. and Helping ah helping this this little guy. i don't want to i don't want to spoil it. But it's you're you're helping. the The story ends up being really touching. Why you're doing this for this guy. Ends up being a really really touching. And moving thing.
00:21:03
Speaker
um And then. Then, obviously, there's fighting the gym leaders, which you can do in any order in this game, and fighting the Elite Four. And then the third thing is team this version's Team Rocket, which also is a really interesting twist on the evil teams, the evil Pokemon teams, and ah also really moving, really touching. um Once the story is fully sort of revealed, they each have, like, a base element.
00:21:37
Speaker
around the Around the region. So you have these three quests. That you can do. The bases. The titans.
00:21:48
Speaker
The gyms in any order. And you can do the quests. Simultaneously. So you have basically. why Like. 20 different locations around the map.
00:22:00
Speaker
Each with a cool thing. Happening at them. that you can just choose to do any of them in any order. And it really adds to this like living world, open world feeling of it that Pokemon has failed so bad at in some of its other recent games. um Yeah, that sounds very like Zelda-ish to me.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, and there's some side quests, but mostly... Like if you talk to, if you do take classes, you can take classes at the school. And then with each class that you take, you get closer to the professors and they'll send you on little quests too. So there are like side quests. And of course you have the eternal quest of catching them all.
00:22:49
Speaker
um Dude, this game has so many fucking Pokemon.
00:22:54
Speaker
Is there oddish?
00:22:58
Speaker
I don't have I seen an Oddish? I don't think that I don't think Oddish is in Scarlet and Violet cannot be serious. I thought you were going to say, of course, there is an Oddish because that was I was almost joking. There's got to be an Oddish.
00:23:13
Speaker
Yes, there's an Oddish in the DLC. Okay. All right. Which you can also, if you've purchased the DLC, you can also do that at any time. And that can be done out of order too. Like that story goes in order, but you can leave the DLC location at any point and just go do the other stuff.
00:23:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:35
Speaker
And the DLC is fun, too. Man, it's fucking good. i love Pokemon. I love Oddish.
00:23:44
Speaker
No, I do, too. I like Pokemon stuff, too. i'm just I'm not as big as a Pokemon person as you, but I like some of the Game Boy games. I like Pokemon Go. I like the anime. I just like Pokemons. I just like impact that they have. Looking at the little guys. I do. I like weird little guys. And that's what Pokemon are. They're weird little guys. And I love Oddish. hotish you kind of like the original NFT, but and in a cool way, not in a shitty way Because, right, like you have these very you have these you know unique sort of ah digitally stamped little creatures in your bank.
00:24:27
Speaker
bank That have a real world value. mean, not monetarily, but like there's an economy to trading Pokemon, right? That's true. I'm not going to be able to trade an Oddish for a Myrhodon, right? What fuck is a Myrhodon?
00:24:44
Speaker
If you want a Legendary, you're going to have to have a comparable Legendary to trade for it, right? That's true. Yeah. If you want a mythical Pokemon. These are If you want a mythical Pokemon, you're going to need to trade somebody for...
00:24:59
Speaker
Another mythical Pokemon that they don't have. and what really What's an example of a mythical Pokemon? um so like for the The easiest, earliest example is Mew. And Jirachi.
00:25:13
Speaker
And Celebi. Those were the i think three original mythical Pokemon. Mythical Pokemon are Pokemon that you... There's some exceptions to this rule. But Pokemon that you can't just catch in the game.
00:25:27
Speaker
They're Pokemon that you have to do something outside of the game to get. Oh, it was that weird pink cat thing. The pink cat the pink floating cat thing. Yeah.
00:25:43
Speaker
You have to... like Pokemon that you have to go to a a website at the, you know, and between this date and this date and do a thing and get a code or you have to go to GameStop and ask at the counter between this date and this date and then go home and redeem a code. Or in some cases it's like, okay, if you have Pokemon Shining Pearl and Brilliant Diamond, if you have one of those and you have Pokemon Let's Go, Eevee or Pikachu,
00:26:21
Speaker
When you're playing Pokemon Pearl or Diamond on your Switch, it will look in your sort of like Nintendo library.
00:26:35
Speaker
And if you have evi the Let's Go Eevee or Let's Go Pikachu... you will get a one these two characters. One gives you a Mew and one gives you a Jirachi. They're not really mythical. You can get them just through unconventional means. Yes. but Got it. so you need to So in order to get that, you have to have both games. like You need to meet a condition, and they will only do it once per cartridge. There's no amount. If you delete your save, even if you sort of wipe your...
00:27:05
Speaker
I think even if, well, maybe if you wipe your entire Switch. um But if you delete your save, you um you'd have to, yeah, because you'd have to delete your whole Nintendo account and start a whole new Nintendo account.
00:27:20
Speaker
um And no, because then the cartridges are unique. So yeah, once per cartridge. Wow. They'll give you a one Mew and one Jirachi, right? So that's why, that's what i'm saying. There's an economy to this. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:38
Speaker
You can't,
00:27:41
Speaker
whereas even legendary legendary Pokemon, you'll have to play basically the entire game to get one. And so there sorry some what there's some they're somewhat rare, but you can do that as- What is Jirachi exactly? What am I looking at here?
00:27:57
Speaker
He's just like a little he's just a little guy with a hat on. He's a Wish Pokemon. Oh. He's a Wish Pokemon. He's like a shooting star.
00:28:08
Speaker
Oh. That's kind cool, I guess. He's supposed to be reminiscent of a shooting star. But he looks like he has, like, tape on him. Why does he have tape on him? I think those are, like, Wish tickets. Like, Wish... A Wish tickets? I don't know what they're actually called, but... Yeah, yeah.
00:28:26
Speaker
um but i know that cute that is a that is a japanese sort of folk oh somebody's gonna ask somebody's gonna lecture me because i'm i'm it's not it's i don't think it's called ticket but but these writing wishes on a slip of paper and and and doing certain rituals with them right like attaching them to um attaching them to one of those lanterns that you put on the water or um putting them on a shrine or whatever. Yeah, Yoko Ono had a an art exhibit at the Contemporary Art Museum in Chicago that I went and saw, and she had a wishing tree.
00:29:06
Speaker
And there were like little wish. They're not, obviously, work now we're calling them tickets, but they're not tickets. They look like tickets. They're little slips of paper. They're little thin slips of paper. And you would write a wish and you put it on the wishing tree and it was very nice. I liked it. Yeah, so he's a shooting star with little wishes attached to him. He's wish Pokemon.
00:29:26
Speaker
He's really no Oddish though, let's be honest here. and think Jirachi's cooler than Oddish. How dare you? is a living radish.
00:29:39
Speaker
Except for that little slit on Jirachi's belly. What is that? Yeah. Is that a smiley face? What is that? it's an This is the worst thing about Jirachi. And I only know this because I used to have a podcast with ah my Mutant Menace co-host, Pat Reber, and my friend, Ashley.
00:29:57
Speaker
um It's an eyeball that opens. No, Matt, no. I've never seen, it's never opened in any of the games, but in the movie Jirachi Wishmaker, which you can hear me and Pat goof on in, what what's the name of our podcast? the very worst a Pokemon podcast, um where we watch all the Pokemon movies in order.
00:30:24
Speaker
It was really rough. um But the podcast is fun. ah Yeah, his little his little tummy eye opens. I really wish it didn't. I really wish that was not an eyeball.
00:30:38
Speaker
Did you think we'd be talking about Pokemon like for the first 20 minutes of our fucking podcast? No, but i'm I'm into it, though. okay I like Oddish. but um can somebody ah Can somebody draw me as Oddish?
00:30:55
Speaker
Thank you. I know I'm an Oddish. I could probably do it myself, but I would like be delighted. Holy shit, in the first couple games, I'm looking in at Bulbapedia now, and the first couple games, Jirachi's little tummy eye does open.
00:31:09
Speaker
That's scary. i don't I really don't like that. I just don't. I guess if you port him to Emerald or Ruby... No, i did maybe he's from set Ruby and Sapphire. Yeah, he is.
00:31:20
Speaker
he's from I mean, I thought it was a mouth. It's better than a mouth. I thought it was a mouth at first. It is better than that, but it's not great. I wouldn't like Jirachi at all anymore. um ma I do think there is something fun about harmless NFTs though, right? like yeah There's something fun about like i own this Pokemon this this this bank of Pokemon that are my Pokemon, right? And like I worked to get them and I own them and I have them here and they're they're you know, there are many like them but these are mine. Yeah. um
00:31:59
Speaker
And i've I've always found that so cool. i So, yeah, again, every three to four years, I get obsessed with Pokemon and I play the fuck out of the games and I i get really obsessive about collecting. Yeah. um And I'm in one of those now. Are you a collect-a-thon kind of guy? Like, do you like games like Banjo-Kazooie and like Mario 64 where it's like your whole goal? I mean, obviously there's a story kind of, but there's like a lot of collect-a-thon elements. to Are you into those?
00:32:32
Speaker
Huh. Well,
00:32:36
Speaker
only... i ask I ask the hard questions, obviously. i don't think Pokemon is a collect-a-thon. but That's fair. But it shares DNA, obviously.
00:32:49
Speaker
I think Pokemon's an RPG. Yeah, it is. That's fair. And in and like ah when i when I play in Metroidvania, I like to 100% them. I like to go collect all the shit around the map.
00:33:03
Speaker
Do all the like secret optional bosses and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. um And when I'm really digging a platform game, I like to do that, too. Like in um Super Mario Odyssey, I 100% did that. and I love that game.
00:33:18
Speaker
I also 100% did it. I love that game. But a game that sort of a lot of games that build themselves as collectathons, I just can't get into.
00:33:29
Speaker
how about you? Yeah. i I think I'm the same way you are. I i love Mario Odyssey. I love Mario 64. But my favorite thing is Banjo-Kazooie. i love collecting every single thing that I and that's a platformer game. I would call that a platformer. um But I love collecting all the weird man. I love a weird little guy. What is wrong with me?
00:33:52
Speaker
love weird little guys. I love collecting them. So strange. ah Yeah. And there's like musical notes you can collect. And i don't know. I think I just have really major OCD, Matt.
00:34:03
Speaker
I just need to yeah collect them. Even in Stardew, if there are things to collect, right? Oh, yeah. I'm happy with that. Yeah. I did that in Stardew, too. Yeah.
00:34:14
Speaker
um But some games where I feel like all I'm doing is collecting stuff. Sure. i I sort of bulk a little bit.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah. And but I think that's why I like Banjo, though, because it it doesn't feel like I'm only collecting. It feels like I'm also like doing the platforming and doing a couple puzzles and helping save you know that bear thing. Who cares? It's all about the little guys.
00:34:42
Speaker
I'm very easy to please, okay? Okay.
00:34:47
Speaker
ah easy to please okay So I didn't mean to talk about Pokemon this much. I'm fine that we did. oh yeah, I'm fine that we did.
00:34:58
Speaker
But i think probably we have and we're going to we have like a big obviously there's a game we're talking about this episode, a specific game. But in terms of games we've been playing, I think we both have some stuff to say.
00:35:12
Speaker
I'll just say it briefly, and I'll say a couple things briefly, and then I'll say- What I'm saying is I don't want to take away from that. So I think if this episode has to go a little long, I'm fine with that. Oh, okay. I thought you wanted to keep a move in here.
00:35:28
Speaker
No, that's what ah that's why I'm- I guess I'm running that by you to see if you have any problem with the episode running a little long. That's fine. Because-
00:35:39
Speaker
i don't want I don't want our Pokemon diversion to have taken away from talking about actual adventure games. You can't cut the Pokemon to talk. It's important. No, we can't cut the Pokemon talk. it's we should I have no other outlet for it.
00:35:55
Speaker
i know what you is mean, man. This isn't a Pokemon. This isn't a sort of podcast where we talk about Pokemon. And I definitely can't talk about it on the X-Men podcast.
00:36:08
Speaker
I know. do know do you know how many people I talk to about Oddish? One. And it's you. we should have We should just do every now and then we do a Pokemon bonus episode. And listeners can be like like, I don't want to listen to that.
00:36:26
Speaker
But some listeners are going to be like, ah fuck, yes. Fuck yeah. I love Oddish and Pokemon. I'll make you play some Pokemon games with me. and we'll do I'll some more.
00:36:37
Speaker
This will likely never happen, but still, it would be fun if we did one. No, let's play some. up I want to play Pokepedia. Pocopia.
00:36:48
Speaker
Wait, is that a real thing? Did make up something? You did make something up. Because it's called, what would be called a Pokepedia is called a Pokedex, I guess. Pokedex, damn it. Pokepedia.
00:37:02
Speaker
It sounds like it's a real Pokemon thing. But yeah, I i do want to play that Because I like Stardew. I like Animal Crossing a whole lot. Like, yeah. It's cute. It's got weird little guys. But we should talk about the games that we have in play.
00:37:18
Speaker
Yes. You go first. Oh, boy. All right. Well, here's what happened, guys. I know it's coming. Yeah, you know it's coming. Why is everything so dramatic with me? So I am still playing. I continue to play, and I'm still playing Letter Lost.
00:37:39
Speaker
And I got to a point where um I was doing a series of puzzles that I was really enjoying. I don't know if you did these puzzles or if you started again at ah at a different point, but I was doing these puzzles with Liv because I was trying to help her out. And it was a very...
00:37:59
Speaker
It's a very earnest part of the game. Like you get to learn more about Liv when you're doing these puzzles and it makes you feel like you're doing something right and that you're on the right track. It was very fulfilling. And I completed that. i completed that set of puzzles.
00:38:13
Speaker
Only to find that it doesn't change anything. Nothing. okay I did nothing. what What? Okay. Okay. That can't be 100% true. So what do you mean by it doesn't change anything? What's the thing that you wanted it to change that it didn't change?
00:38:32
Speaker
Okay, spoiler alerts. Liv gets ah kidnapped. And if you don't, quote, save her, that's that's one of the puzzles, quote, saving her. She, like, turns into a god with crazy powers. And, like, she's mean. And I don't want that. So that's what you wanted to change. That's what I wanted to prevent. Couldn't prevent it.
00:38:54
Speaker
Yes. And you thought maybe by doing this. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it didn't. and And then I got mad. And then I put it down. i put it down for a little bit.
00:39:04
Speaker
I'm back to playing it. I don't know how close I am to the end. i am enjoying it again, though. It's just one of those games, man, that I'm i'm having a real hard time like putting down for good. There's something about it that I really, really enjoy. Yeah.
00:39:19
Speaker
um i'm getting paid more money now i've like figured out some of the mechanics i'm i'm trying to help bartimus with like his his his his weird stuff and um i think i'm doing good i don't know i gotta be close to some kind of ending i met archie we talked about that off uh off recording but I finally met him very cute and weird uh I don't know i I like this game and I don't and but I'm so mad at it how is that possible
00:39:53
Speaker
I I got some endings you got multiple endings yeah Yes. Were they good? No, don't say that. What? um I got to the end and it was very buggy.
00:40:13
Speaker
The ending was probably the most buggy part. um Hey, if you get to the end, wait a second to walk through the door. If you walk through it too quickly...
00:40:26
Speaker
If you walk through it before, you know, like the game sort of wants you to walk through the door, you will clip through everything and the ending will make so little sense.
00:40:39
Speaker
But if you just wait a couple seconds to walk through the door, you'll be able to, you'll like, you'll see things. You'll be able to see the things that it's referring to. oh my God. OK, thank you for that. If I get to an ending. i So I have a question for you then real quick um to get to these endings. Do you have to trigger them with ah with a certain amount that you do or is it time based and is an ending going to happen no matter what you do? You have to trigger it.
00:41:06
Speaker
There's something you have to do and it's.
00:41:13
Speaker
simpler than i thought. Okay. I actually had to go get a hint. No, what I mean is that... i had to go get a hint no i mean what i mean is that there is something that you know you need to do and you start trying to solve the puzzle. Okay. And you start thinking of sort of complex solutions because it's the final puzzle of the game.
00:41:35
Speaker
So you're like thinking about, comp you're thinking of complex solutions. Sure. And you're like, oh, I bet it means this. That would be so cool. And it doesn't mean that. It means the dumbest possible thing you could think it would mean. Okay. Um,
00:41:51
Speaker
And then, so once you do that and you have your door open, um you sort of get, there's, you have a choice.
00:42:03
Speaker
You have three choices. And then I think like an optional, like a, like a, almost like a, not secret, but there's sort of a fourth choice.
00:42:16
Speaker
If you're fast enough. Oh, geez. No. And those these choices lead to, i think, only two different endings. Because some of your choices don't won't work.
00:42:31
Speaker
Not because the game is bugged, but because it's like it's trying to show you futility. um Okay. Okay.
00:42:43
Speaker
like the it's sort of the It's interesting the frustrations you're having here. Because I think in some ways this game is ultimately about futility.
00:42:55
Speaker
Yeah. you It is. yeah You're trying to leave this place. And
00:43:05
Speaker
i don't want to say like you Mm-hmm. can't because I don't want to give... ah Number one, I don't want to give away the ending, and number two, that's not entirely... That might not entirely be the truth, but it's it's sort of like...
00:43:23
Speaker
the what you have is what do you have to you There's things you have to give up in order to escape this. And that should bring that brings a theme of the game around, right? You're doing this drudgery um yeah that seems to be supporting a town full of um almost like...
00:43:45
Speaker
brain damaged people ah yeah um people whose brains are damaged at the very least yeah yeah well that's what i'm saying like some of them are like zombies and others are like crazy but they all seem to have been they all seem to have like had their brains yeah altered by the curse that's on this town right right and
00:44:14
Speaker
it's sort of illustrating a metaphor of what it feels like to work a day job. Like I'm supporting this sort of this, this thing that feels pointless or even harmful to other people because we're all just caught in this never ending cycle of right wake up, brush our teeth, drive to work and,
00:44:39
Speaker
use our paycheck to pay for the gas to drive back home. Right. You know, like, yeah, um we're all caught in this sort of mind numbing circle of sadness and depression. And we want to escape it and we want to liberate others from it.
00:44:57
Speaker
But that comes at a huge cost. Right. You know, you could you could leave that lifestyle. I mean, you could be very privileged, like,
00:45:09
Speaker
Wow. Okay. You can be very privileged like Liv and become a creator. Right. Become a god. And that yeah is one way to leave that cycle. But it comes with its own curse. Right?
00:45:22
Speaker
Liv is still stuck in in in this world of with these people and these. Yeah. You know, it's she's just making the best out of what there is.
00:45:35
Speaker
It's not great. Right. But it's, she's no longer, right. She's no longer stamping envelopes or whatever, right but she's still in a prison. So I have a question then, because so live is she, she's still stuck. She is just in a higher tier in this world. Do you remember the original guy that we were talking to who was also,
00:45:56
Speaker
stamping the stamp the postmaster before us he seemed to go to a lower tier yeah he was like demoted so I'm just kind of wondering what's like what's going on in the background here like what like what has Liv been doing I don't know And I don't know what the other guy's been doing. Like, I don't know if that is some a question they just don't have answers to. And it's supposed to just be like, we don't know either. It's just a mystery. It's supposed to be part of it. Or if I or if i missed something or I don't know.
00:46:30
Speaker
but You know how I get, though, when I'm like, I need this these answers. I need questions answered. i i know But, yeah, so, like, you could be live and you could you could be you could become promoted in this world and, you know, become become part of the bourgeoisie or become a creator or something. and But that's, again, being trapped in your own prison. Or you could...
00:46:58
Speaker
do the other thing and either you know the your other ah only other options to break out of that cycle or to kill your your life or kill society and by that I don't mean um by that I don't mean suicide or mass murder what I mean is like i could kill my life And stop relying on money at all and go live in the woods and forage yeah and not have a social life, right?
00:47:26
Speaker
Not have the safety of a house and home, not be able to enjoy all any of the amenities of modern life. And I might be free, but I've given up so much.
00:47:40
Speaker
Or, you know, I could kill society. I could try and do it somewhere else that she that does living differently. Right. But and again, that is sacrificing everything that I've grown comfortable with. Like, yeah my friends and family and i guess my home language. I guess I don't know what we were expecting because, like...
00:48:04
Speaker
This is a Lovecraftian story. It's probably not going to have a happy ending. It's just that the game sometimes, every now and then, gives me these little breadcrumbs of solving something where I'm going to have a better ending, where I'm going to do something. right By doing these puzzles, something really great is going to happen. And I guess I just don't like... This is an interesting conversation to have in terms of puzzle design.
00:48:29
Speaker
Is that bad puzzle design if You know you're playing a Lovecraftian game. You know ah it's probably going to be futile. But the game is giving you these breadcrumbs. And then it's and then it subverts your expectations. Like, actually, it is still futile. Is that a good thing to do?
00:48:54
Speaker
i mean If it's for the story. right like This is the thing about this game. it's like it's a That's a bleak outlook on life and the world and society. I don't think the things that I just said, i don't think are true. I think there are other options.
00:49:11
Speaker
You know, I think that you can make your world better. I think you can, I think you can through community improve these things, make life feel more free than like, anyway, this game doesn't give you those options. Yeah.
00:49:29
Speaker
um Which, again, when you come to the ending, you really feel that. Yeah. um I don't know that the metaphor hit me as I was playing it, but like upon reflection, it really it makes sense. and so So one could argue that this game does hold together as an artistic whole, even if you don't love the message of it.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Which I don't think do. that's why I'm kind of questioning the puzzles then. I don't think their view... yeah yeah yeah Yeah, I want to come back around to that. Yeah, I don't think their view on humanity is the same as mine.
00:50:09
Speaker
Or, again, at least the view that they are communicating. So this will bring it back around to the puzzles. I am not... this is the This is what they're communicating with their game.
00:50:22
Speaker
I don't know 100% that that's what they intended to communicate with their game. we have seen a lot and you know i we can only speculate so I can't our analysis can't be based on so specifically just what they intended yeah of course obviously because we don't know but we do know this game is full of fucking bugs yeah it is buggy and
00:50:55
Speaker
weird dead ends in various parts of the story and these these things that feel more story-wise and but and gameplay-wise that feel more unfinished than intentional sure so Yeah, so it's it's it's hard to say when you're asking about, like, is this the game design of, like, right striving really hard but not being able to change the outcome? Is that
00:51:34
Speaker
and like i is that a is that part of the message or not? I i don't know, but I a do know as a player it's frustrating. message an artist. Right. that's That's exactly what I want to say. So I think like as – don't know if you knew this, but I'm an artist. And i believe in creating expressive things, whether they're happy or fun or not. So I believe in art that's not necessarily fun. Me too. Yeah. So I think what I'm clashing against is where's the line of fun and like –
00:52:10
Speaker
And profoundness and like frustration with the puzzles. Because I don't necessarily want to be frustrated. You know what I mean? I'm fine with being sad, depressed, let down.
00:52:23
Speaker
I'm fine with being surprised. I don't know if like a set of frustrating puzzles enhances the art or enhances the message. That's what I'm like clashing with, I think. Because I believe in art and I believe in and sad art, you know?
00:52:38
Speaker
Yeah, and again, that's what I'm saying. like Even if I don't believe and I don't agree with their the message that they're communicating,
00:52:49
Speaker
it's worth dissecting. It's worth analyzing. it's it's It has value, obviously. Yeah. um but But then you have a couple questions. First, do I like it?
00:53:04
Speaker
Right. And two, do I think as a critic... from a from as as objective of a viewpoint as we can take right all criticism is subjective but all of it is yeah no matter what y'all say but a lot of it a lot of it we we one thing you have to do as a critic is strive for objectivity as much as you can yeah um at least you know at moments like this right uh I guess there's a yeah i don't know there's a lot of theories about criticism. Sure, sure.
00:53:43
Speaker
By the way, a quick recommendation. allll um All month, the podcast ah Post Games by Chris Plant is doing a series on video game criticism that oh nice so far has been really good.
00:54:00
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I'll check that out. So here's where I'm going to... So this is where i was sort of going with the subjective and objective objective thing. is like So subjectively, both me and you found this game frustrating and a little headache-inducing and, you know...
00:54:17
Speaker
ah Yes, various levels of nauseating, right? like um But...
00:54:28
Speaker
On...
00:54:31
Speaker
so that's So that's on the the subjective level and we can't ignore that. It's like, okay, even if it's a good, even if we think, okay, objectively it might be a good piece of art, subjectively it treated us badly. Like we didn't like what we experienced.
00:54:47
Speaker
ah Objectively, here's my argument, there's other games that frustrate us that we love. o Look at for example or or games that made us that had a bleak feel look at um papers please yeah which is what this game sort of begs a comparison to to and fails on every level in its comparison to it right because papers please it also has a bleak outlook on humanity it does yeah also is very frustrating
00:55:30
Speaker
And yet, I think both of us enjoy Papers, Please, both objectively and subjectively. We both think it is a successfully done piece of art that communicates its point really clearly um and really profoundly. And on a subjective level, we both enjoyed playing it.
00:55:52
Speaker
You know why? And I'm going to bring this back to that it might have a lot to do with the – like you said, it's buggy. It might have a lot to do with the bugginess and the puzzle design because you're right. Papers, Please! had some very frustrating things. But I think i think in Papers, Please! you always knew that there was a risk of something having a bleak outcome. You knew that. You you were put in this world – that you already knew that you weren't given necessarily breadcrumbs. You were just trying your best and trying to be an ethical person. Right. So in this game, though, I really felt I felt like I was doing something, man. I felt you were like I was saving Liv. Yeah, I did. i i felt like I was moving that direction. i wasn't feeling the bleakness at that time.
00:56:38
Speaker
And so maybe that really is a puzzle, like interactive type of flaw. I don't know. Yeah, and well yeah and then that brings us back around to the point we were making last time we discussed this game, which is you can't trust this game.
00:56:56
Speaker
You can trust Papers, Please at every moment that the developer was there with you, right? and making very intentional choices and...
00:57:14
Speaker
yeah all yeah Everything you were doing had been planned for. Right. We don't know that. And we don't, more importantly, we don't feel that when we play Letter Lost.
00:57:29
Speaker
We feel like, is was this in did this happen? You know, like you didn't save Liv and you're like, is that a I have to go look this up. Is that a bug?
00:57:41
Speaker
or right Because I did all the stuff to save Liv and the same thing happened to me as when I didn't. So is that intentional or not?
00:57:55
Speaker
There was a moment I had when i when I did it again and I thought I did everything correctly because it told me I did. i even got an achievement for it. There was a moment where I'm like, what did I do wrong?
00:58:06
Speaker
like what I don't know what I did wrong. what is this Do I have to do it again? Basically. Yeah. Yes. do after do i did my Did something fuck up in my save? And yeah both of us, I actually didn't send it in, but both of us were asked to send our... It had bugs that in which we were asked to send our saves to the developer so they could fix it.
00:58:29
Speaker
I didn't send it because... um i did I did. And the dev is really great. He's really friendly. He fixed my game. i i got really Guys, i got really scared at a part of the game. And so instead of like just dealing with it, I quit at that part of the game.
00:58:47
Speaker
And the dev's like, oh, I've never seen this one. I'm like, yeah, I don't think people are quitting. i think I'm ah like scared of this. So I'm not surprised. Nobody in their right mind would quit at this point. ah But he did he did fix it. And then it wasn't that scary. And I was like, oh, what the fuck?
00:59:04
Speaker
um But yeah, he fixed it. he's ah He's a nice guy. And I want to say i it's straight because I do like a lot of parts of this game. Right. um Especially the feel, especially the vibe.
00:59:19
Speaker
And honestly, I'm getting attached to the characters. I really am. I'm like, that's why I wanted to save Liv. I got attached. I got attached to her. Which sort of just, again, underlines this idea, this the the the the concept that it's maybe if this game wasn't so buggy, and maybe if some of the writing wasn't a little bit janky, Mm-hmm.
00:59:44
Speaker
this would have, this could have been a great, great game. Yeah, I agree. um There's something about, like I said, there's, I think we said this last time. There's something about it, man. There's something about this game. ah There's something special about it that it, that it, it didn't, it couldn't live up to its own. Yeah.
01:00:05
Speaker
Its own, its own potential. And that's really, that's, I i mean, that's really sad. Well, poop. Do you want to hear about another game I was playing? Yes. Or you need you need more time with Letter Lost to mourn. What could have been?
01:00:23
Speaker
What could have been? No, we can move on. I just i do want to fit i want to get an ending. i'm i'm It's one of those things now where I'm like in it. I'm like committed to doing something in this game. ah So I will get an ending.
01:00:39
Speaker
and like I said, I am attached to these characters. So I do want to see something out. But yes, please do tell me about something else that you've been playing. Okay. So I played, it only took me, it took me about three hours and I played it just straight through. was, I, I, I got really into this game. um And it it is another sort of meta textual horror game that is based around a really addictive mechanic.
01:01:09
Speaker
um It's a solitaire game. Okay. Okay. It's called Forbidden Solitaire. Oh, and right. You told me. You told me about this.
01:01:20
Speaker
You're a person who found a copy of this this game called Forbidden Solitaire that your parents forbid you from playing as a kid.
01:01:34
Speaker
And you are on like your desktop, right? And you see emails. You can like you can go into like email and you can go into whatever. um And you see a kind you know you can see a conversation with your sister about how you...
01:01:53
Speaker
About how you guys were so, so excited about Forbidden Solitaire because of the commercials on TV. And you, which you get to see them in this game. And the commercials are so 90s software, comment like video game commercials, that it is it's really something else. Yeah.
01:02:17
Speaker
And then you start playing the game. Like there's Beard and Solitaire is on your desktops. You play the game. And every now and then you get interrupted by your sister who's messaging you about like she's doing research on it as you're playing. Because you told her i found the game.
01:02:31
Speaker
and she's like, oh, my God, that's so cool. i i I'm so excited for you. And then she starts like doing like Googling it and right and researching it.
01:02:43
Speaker
But all the while, you're playing this very special kind of solitaire game where you're crawling through a dungeon. And sort of being attacked by monsters. And like you're getting these like little bits of um text to narration at the bottom of the screen. And it looks all looks so 90s. It does. It looks like you're walking through a ah re-skinned version of that um that screensaver.
01:03:15
Speaker
the screensaver when walk it through the maze. That's funny. Actually, you know what it reminds me of? Have you played Waxworks? No, but can see the visuals that you're talking about. Yeah, I can like see it. It's kind of like one of those. Besides the the the blatant solitaire screens. I'm talking about yeah yeah i'm talking about like the monsters with the little text boxes. that It reminds me of this very specific era of of adventure games.
01:03:45
Speaker
There's these cut scenes that are so that are super different than the like graphics of the actual game. Yeah. Like all of that 90s stuff. it's really It's really nostalgic. But the the strength of the game is in the solitaire.
01:04:00
Speaker
When you face a monster or a challenge, you solve it through solitaire. Okay. So like you're playing solitaire.
01:04:12
Speaker
Every time you make... um every time you you eliminate a card by putting it, you know, then it's the next card in your deck.
01:04:26
Speaker
um So, for example, if you pull a 10, you can pull a jack off the off the board. um If you, or, you know, or a nine off the board. um That'll accrue damage, right?
01:04:46
Speaker
And you see how many, you know like in Solitaire, how many in a row you can get. But then the the thing that's a little different is then when you flip your next card, like when when you run out. like i get like i'm I'm doing a run, and I i pulled a 10. get a jack. I get a queen. I get a king. I get a queen again. I get ah another jack. I get a a queen. and then i there's nothing else I can get.
01:05:13
Speaker
Right? Yeah. yeah i have to flip another card and that is the end of my turn and then all the all the the points that I've accrued are damage that goes that is done to the monster and the monster has a health bar then the monster gets a turn and the monster gets to attack you and you can through the game through like certain special conditions you can build up shields and there's special cards that have certain effects so you can build up a like during your turn you have to be a little strategic and you might be able to build up shields um you might be able to
01:06:01
Speaker
create other status effects. So when they attack you, like they, they get an effect back to them, stuff like that. um But they attack you and it takes away your health and you can, you know, you can die in this game and then you just restart from that solitaire match over. um But there's also puzzles in this game. So the, when you play against the monsters, it is a, the the cards are all random.
01:06:30
Speaker
um but the scenario is scripted. So like every monster has its own powers that it does to the cards, right? So some monsters will do like, um if you, anytime you, anytime you, this card is frozen or something. So every time, if you make a match you on this card, you're thawing it out.
01:06:55
Speaker
So it uses up, the top card of your deck, but it doesn't make the card on the screen go away. hu Does that make sense?
01:07:06
Speaker
Yeah. I'm looking at like walkthroughs and stuff. So, or, you know, there are cards that are locked by vines or something. And so in if you get,
01:07:18
Speaker
I don't remember how the vines were. It's been a while since it's been a while since we last recorded and I played this a couple weeks ago. So I don't remember which mechanics are which, but for example, like there's one where you...
01:07:33
Speaker
There's cards that are like locked by certain things, but if you make a match with the card next to it, it takes the the like vines or whatever off of it. yeah And then you can you can reach that card. But then you get certain Joker cards that'll do certain things. So if you play a certain Joker card, maybe it reveals all the upside-down cards on the board. So you don't have to wonder about what's going to be under the card that you make a match with. And so like you can plan a little more. Or maybe...
01:08:02
Speaker
The Joker card just does something like... um Every card you click on does three damage to the... It adds three damage to your attack rather than one.
01:08:15
Speaker
um And then there's these puzzle ones. So so those are the the cards... The scenarios are scripted, but the cards are random. In ah other things, like maybe you're trying to cast a spell or unlock a door, right?
01:08:30
Speaker
You... have like ah a puzzle sequence and those, the cards aren't random. There's like, it's, I think there's a couple of different, it's not like if you play, you're going to have the exact same scenario ah over and over again, but they are designed and it'll be something like,
01:08:56
Speaker
um there are cards that have keys on them. And you have to get to those to unlock locks on the screen. Right. And maybe and once you eliminate u do getting through all these obstacles, once you eliminate all the cards on the screen, you successfully cast the spell or you successfully pick the lock or whatever.
01:09:20
Speaker
And then you just you're you're crawling through this dungeon. Now, all the while, your sister is sending you increasingly frantic IMs. Right. I was going to say, this and the tags on this game say that it it says horror, solitaire, and like survival horror. So I assume it's going to go somewhere, like a little meta, or you know what I mean? Survival horror is a little weird of a tag to put on, but it does go somewhere meta, right? She's sending you increasingly frantic messages like...
01:09:55
Speaker
Hey, the more research here, watch this video. And she sends you a little documentary about um when people played this game.
01:10:06
Speaker
a bunch of people died. And the last thing they had done was played this game. And a lot of people that this happened to died in similar ways. And she'll send you a picture of like a dead body. um or Or she'll send you pretty weird. We should send you a documentary.
01:10:25
Speaker
And then sometimes as you're crawling through the dungeon, you'll just start hearing this dialogue. or as you're playing certain, actually, matches, you'll start hearing this dialogue, and it's between...
01:10:39
Speaker
it would be a spoiler to explain who exactly these people are, but as far as you know, it's between the developer of the game... And their boss at a game studio. And it's like the developers like I don't want to publish this game.
01:10:54
Speaker
It's dangerous. And the boss is like I think we should publish this game. And you know right because you're in the future. You know that this game did get published by this company.
01:11:06
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So as you're listening to these you're like I wonder what happened. And you know and there's a whole sort of deep. there's ah There's an interesting story.
01:11:17
Speaker
And it does have mystery, so that would that'll frustrate you. you don't You don't really learn the origins of all of it. but Okay. You kind of do.
01:11:29
Speaker
It's one of those things. You kind of do, but there's there's still questions left um intentionally. I mean, I'm not always against that. It just needs to be like a believable thing within the story within that I'm being told. Yeah, within the the world That world.
01:11:45
Speaker
um Anyway, it's the solitaire was super addictive and fun. Nice. And the story was really good. And then the the nostalgia of it was really it was done super well in a way that just kept making me laugh.
01:12:00
Speaker
um Yeah, I love it. really looks like one of those early 90s, like weird adventure games that have like, you know, It's not pixel art, but it's yeah it's like vaguely human looking. don't know how to describe that kind of artwork. It's kind of it's kind of off. It's like kind three d early 3D art. Yeah. yeah i I don't know. it's yeah it's ah it's it's really It was really fun. there's no There's no inventory. There's no dialogue. There's no, you know, all you're doing is reading and playing solitaire.
01:12:38
Speaker
Sounds great, honestly. And loved it. Like horror solitaire game sounds amazing to me, and I want that. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. Yeah. I highly recommend it. So now that we're an hour and a half into the podcast. Now the show can really start. Now we can start the show, yeah.
01:12:59
Speaker
What are we, yeah, what are we going to be talking about today? We are going to be talking. about again! No, going to be talking. Letter lost! All right, let me just know.
01:13:12
Speaker
I mean, I would. um no we're going to be playing ah the Incident at Galley House. Did I say playing? We're going to be talking about the Incident at Galley House, which is an at galea a mysterious game with a very cool mechanic.
01:13:33
Speaker
So why don't we fire up the Victrola?
01:13:38
Speaker
And we'll be back in a second to talk about the incident at Galley House.
01:14:02
Speaker
everyone, welcome back to Save Your Game. I am one of your ah enthusiastic, ah positive hosts who still has hope for Letter Lost, even though it's not looking great. I'm pushing up roses with me as always, special boy Matt Aucamp. Matt, how mad how's your jumping game these days? How are your how are your jumps?
01:14:23
Speaker
ah Now that I'm 20, my joints are starting to creak a little bit. Yeah, I heard them. i've heard I've been hearing them over the over the recording. Yeah, because I jump usually most of the time we're recording. We have to edit out all the around ah of the the thumps. And now we have to edit out all the joint creaks. But I'm still, i'm still you know, I'm actually jumping higher than ever. Yeah. It just hurts.
01:14:52
Speaker
It just hurts a lot. All the time. Maybe don't. All the time. like ah even Even when I'm not jumping, which is rarely.
01:15:03
Speaker
um you hurt yourself, we're recording this from the hospital. Rose, it's that in de in indefatigable optimism of yours.
01:15:14
Speaker
It makes us all love you. that That a game can just continue to be absolutely infuriating to you on every level. And yeah you're like, no, I'm going to make myself enjoy it.
01:15:31
Speaker
What's wrong with me? That's me. you that's That's who I am. that's Welcome to me Let's talk about a game, though, that we didn't have any fucking trouble enjoying.
01:15:42
Speaker
Sure. What's it called? The Incident at Galley House. Who made it? ah This was developed by William Rouse or Evil Trout Incorporated. i love evil it was love an evil fish.
01:16:01
Speaker
It was a collaboration between William Rouse and Evil Trout. Yeah. I can explain. So okay Evil Trout are the people who made The Root Trees Are Dead.
01:16:13
Speaker
And what I didn't realize is
01:16:18
Speaker
the root trees are dead. i think wasn't originally made by evil trout. Like I knew, i knew we all, we all knew the story about how the root trees are dead was originally released on itch.io as something different and something that unfortunately used some AI art.
01:16:42
Speaker
Um, ah It was released in a game jam in 2003. And then it was remade for Steam with all original art and was an incredible game. That was, what, last year?
01:16:56
Speaker
Was that last year? Yeah, it was. It was early last year, though. It was January 2025.
01:17:02
Speaker
Unbelievable. that Yeah. What a fucking year last year was for fucking adventure games. got Maybe the best year for adventure games of all time. Wow. Big words.
01:17:15
Speaker
But then this year, so, but it wasn't, I think the original one wasn't created by evil trout. It was created by somebody else.
01:17:26
Speaker
Okay. um Which I didn't realize. And then just expanded on when they put it in, when they made the steam version. So incident at galley house is no different. There's a guy named William Rouse.
01:17:39
Speaker
who makes itch games. Some of his works looks like Cellar, Devil's Rhapsody, a game just called Adventure Game, game called Escape! Sounds like a game for me! Escape! Frog Prison!
01:17:53
Speaker
Escape! exclamation point Frog Prison! Not Escape Frog Prison! Escape! Frog Prison! um prison ah and This Cellar game actually looks kind of cool.
01:18:05
Speaker
This was a game called Type Help. um And a lot of this guy's games are text adventures and type help was a text adventure um or like a text deduction game.
01:18:19
Speaker
And evil trout found it, saw a lot of potential in it, brought it to steam with really kind of interesting graphics and UI and ah expanded on it.
01:18:38
Speaker
So i think what I think is the story. This game takes place in 1936. Well, you're unraveling a mystery in 1936. I think the story of from 1936 is largely the same.
01:18:54
Speaker
But there is a second act to this game. Right. Yes, correct. That I think is all brand new. And only sort of erupts from the framing device that is created by the UI.
01:19:10
Speaker
So...
01:19:12
Speaker
A lot of that sounded like nonsense. A lot of the things I just said the last minute of me talking sounded like nonsense because like, what do I mean? a second act erupted from the you framing of the UI. So yeah why don't we get into what I mean by talking about what this fucking game is? Do you want to...
01:19:35
Speaker
Yeah. Explain. it It's definitely, yeah, it's definitely one the most interesting UIs I've seen. So, ah and I did have, I want to say I did have some trouble with it. One of one thing of which we just found out, which is heartbreaking, by the way, i feel like I need to actually replay this game because I missed something kind of important. I can't believe it. I cannot believe you went through the game and still enjoyed it without discovering this.
01:20:02
Speaker
I did enjoy- I really did. yeah I did because i was- That's so wild. think I know why I did too, and we'll get into it. But so this game, you are presented right away. You go into this house, this broken down house. It's clear that you're there for for for some reason that we don't quite know yet. Once you get into this house, you find a machine. It's almost like very misplaced. I was afraid. It reminded me of like a misplaced and I got scared. Because they don't explain anything.
01:20:32
Speaker
It's a little bit of a rough learn. Yeah, they don't really anything. think it's cool. think it's really fucking cool that they don't explain anything. And I think it's cool. Yeah. Because all you get is you're walking into a house. You see a newspaper that says in 1936, a bunch of people died here.
01:20:50
Speaker
Yeah. um And so it's it's explained some of the ways they died. it gives you the name of the one, the only guy who was able to be identified out of yeah all what?
01:21:04
Speaker
How many hourss were there? 12, 13? Something. Yeah. Something like that. I think. Yeah. 11, but maybe 12 later on. Yeah. I see. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Spoilers. 11 people.
01:21:18
Speaker
who died. um Only one was able to be identified. And
01:21:25
Speaker
ah the last line of the story in the newspaper is that everyone previously thought the house was abandoned. Right.
01:21:39
Speaker
Right. So let me let me see if I can explain this this this UI, that though this mechanic. It's hard to explain. It's actually hard to explain. You see a machine, you crank a generator to turn it on. It asks you to put your hand
Game Mechanics and Mystery Elements of a Detective Game
01:21:54
Speaker
on a screen. It asks you to put an identification card in it. That is all pretty self-explanatory. But then you're like looking at this UI.
01:22:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's actually like making it actually when I first started playing it and because of how it's ah presented, I thought we were going into kind of a whodunit, which kind of it is a mystery. Right. But I thought we were playing a detective. Actually, I thought we were a detective with like a like an assistant. That's and I'm sure that's by design. Right. It's it's making you very it's a very, very minor spoiler.
01:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. to let you guys know that you're not a detective. Very minor. Yeah, don't even worry about it. all but But, it yeah. But you don't know that right away.
01:22:40
Speaker
you I'm going to try to explain this weird mechanic and you tell me if I sound insane. ah So you get you get this UI, like you said, you get this machine and you're given some instruction that allows you to get to the first scene. So this game is based on unlocking scenes with this machine that you're given. And the way that you do it through... Very first story her story yeah adjacent. Yeah.
01:23:08
Speaker
yeah i Yeah, I would say that's correct. um So but with the with some of the documents that you already have, you're not really starting from nowhere. You do have some documents pertaining to this case. ah You are able to choose a scene, choose a room, and choose characters.
01:23:30
Speaker
And you put them all in this thing. And if that's correct, it'll show you the scene. So basically you're, you're, you're trying to figure out who was where, And at what point in time were they there? And if you're correct, so if you say, let let's use Clue as an example. I think this i think this game is very Clue-like. I actually was able to um to guess which rooms. where You have to like kind of build up the house UI. You have to like input which rooms are where. I'm like, oh, the billiard room. Of course, because it's drawing from glue. Which are you kitchen you know I don't know that I would recommend doing it. i there's there's so i There's definitely points in this game where you can make some basically straight up guesses yeah as to what something is. I think it is, for me, and you know you still loved this game the way you played it, so I'm not saying it's... But for me...
01:24:32
Speaker
Waiting to make a guess until I had some reason for the guess made it more interesting for me. Like I could have said, yeah okay, there's probably kitchen in this house. I'll type kitchen. But to be i wanted to bear i waited until somebody mentioned something that would lead me to believe there was a kitchen.
01:24:55
Speaker
Sure. To be fair, I thought that was a little bit part of the puzzles because it was giving me like a little bit of info to guess the first room on purpose. I'm like, oh, cool. I get it. I get the pattern. and So, yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Fine for me. Yeah.
01:25:12
Speaker
This game is tough enough that if you find ways to get through it and solve the mystery, like there's no wrong way to solve a mystery. um yeah i mean, besides getting the wrong answers. Besides failing. Yeah, besides doing it wrong. I guess there is a very specific way. That was the maybe the dumbest thing I've ever said on this show. Amazing. There's no wrong way to solve a mystery.
01:25:36
Speaker
Oh, Matt. Oh, Matt. Oh, boy. Okay. Cannot be a detective ever. Moving forward. So, yeah. I hope at this point, you guys, the listeners are are maybe looking at the screenshot of the machine. The machine. they're not. I don't. Go ahead.
01:25:54
Speaker
But if they're not. Yeah. Why why don't you describe what what you'd be seeing if they're if they're not looking at it? So, you know what it looks like? It looks like a guess who board. It does a little bit.
01:26:07
Speaker
it looks It looks like a guess who board. It looks like a combination of a guess who board and a meet a sound mixer. Yeah, it it does look like a sound mixer. So on this machine, you could to choose which scene you're trying to see, what location you want to see it in. So the living room, the kitchen, the the billiard room, some of the rooms I named. And you also get these these little cards with these, at first, these cards with these numbers on them. Those are the characters. And so if you have a hint that character number four and character number 10 are going to be in the living room at like 10 o'clock a.m., you can input that scene. And if you're right...
01:26:50
Speaker
It'll show you the scene. And it's so, ah, it's so fulfilling, honestly, to get that correct. One of the most fulfilling things ever in a game is getting the right people in the right scene at the right time and seeing that scene come to fruition. Love it. It's got, it's got a very similar vibe as when you get three people correct in Return the Obra Dinn, Or when you get a paragraph correct in um Case of the Golden Idol.
01:27:22
Speaker
it's like It's like, oh, hell yeah. Fuck, yes. But this this may be even a little more um a little more immediate and a little more like, there's there's something more fun about the feeling of satisfaction you get. Because you get to watch a little scene and it makes a little like, whoom, noise as the scene erupts around you.
01:27:46
Speaker
you're basically. To explain. Okay, ahead. Well, just to give an example, like, all right, if you're listening, if you're, there's two people listening to this podcast, say, um and they both are sitting in front of one of these machines.
01:28:00
Speaker
And one person is like, well, I hear two people talking. So I put Matt and Rose's in ah Rose's living room. Mm-hmm.
01:28:13
Speaker
at, I don't know, whatever, then you pick... The way the time thing works is a little... a little weird. It makes perfect sense when you're playing the game, but I think outside of the game... had to get used to it. The scene stuff I had to get used to. Because it's not like... It's not like...
01:28:32
Speaker
this is, you know, it's not like hour one, hour two. It's not like, right and it's not like 10, 15. It's like, ah it's like, what's, what part of the chronology does it fall into? Is this yes third thing that happened or the fifth thing that happened or whatever? Yeah. so if you're like,
01:28:49
Speaker
that you know, that before this, we were both taking naps. So you put roses and roses bedroom at one, Matt and Matt's bedroom at two,
01:29:02
Speaker
Then you watch the like you watch both those scenes, me napping and Rose's napping. Not very fun scenes. And then you put both of us. Best scene ever. Because you hear both of our voices, what that person puts both of us in, say, Rose's living room right at time two.
01:29:22
Speaker
You're going to hear boom and not, or no, you're going hear zoom. And the the machine will short circuit a bit and shut down because we are not together. We're not in the same room right now. we're But if you put just roses and roses is living room at seat at number two, it'll go womb and you'll see that.
01:29:45
Speaker
From you'll see a scene in Rose's living room of her side of this podcast. And then once that's over, you do time to Matt's living room.
01:29:58
Speaker
With just Matt there. Yeah. And you'll hear womb and you'll see my side of the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you record your living room, but I do. It's it's a really cool – it's tough. I'll give it that. it's these These are some tough puzzles that i that I struggled with because I don't normally do these kind of puzzles. But it's such it's such a new mechanic to me. I've never played anything like this before. Nothing. Yeah. Yeah.
01:30:27
Speaker
And i even got through it without, again, doing the thing that I missed, which is fucking wild. So when you're playing this game at first, you know, you're getting these scenes and you're not seeing characters. You're just seeing silhouettes.
01:30:41
Speaker
You don't really know who they are. Part of the game is figuring out who they are and what happened to them. And And what they look like and things of that nature. So in the game, you know, early on, you'll see like character two and character four, and they're just silhouettes, you know, kind of walking around a scene like a kitchen or something like that. um And then some of the, yeah, go ahead.
01:31:05
Speaker
And when you start, you nothing nothing is labeled. yeah um Right. The... the there's there's a screen that shows all of the characters.
01:31:17
Speaker
There's a screen that shows all the locations. There's a screen that shows the timeline. They're all blank. You don't even know how many... um sequences there are in the timeline it could be five it could be 30 right it could be 200 for all you know um and there's a map of the house and it's at the beginning it's blank because you haven't filled in the room yet rooms so it'll there you know that there are rooms it won't tell you what the rooms are you know that there are people
01:31:49
Speaker
But they're just silhouettes of people with numbers. um You don't know their names. You don't you don't even know. yeah You know nothing about them besides what you see in the scene. So, sorry. Continue.
01:32:04
Speaker
And kind of like Laura Bow style, you get a notebook. And because I didn't do the thing that we you talked about, I have so many notes. That's how I played this game, with notes and with memory. And I still really enjoyed it. But yeah, you can, to help yourself out, you can write down some notes. If you think you know who one of the characters is, you have a name for them. Because they say each other's names. They'll be like, oh, hey, June, what are you doing? You know? You can write. I wrote those down in my notebook. Yeah.
01:32:33
Speaker
There will be clues for everything throughout the game. If you're paying really close attention to the scenes, you will get, you know, somebody will be like, I just came from the dining room and whatever.
01:32:46
Speaker
And then you know, okay I can put this person, and I was talking to so-and-so. Yeah. And like oh, I can put these two people in the dining room in the sequence of time immediately before this one.
01:32:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:33:02
Speaker
So the question is, what is this story about, Matt? Yeah. Like, what are we doing here? What's the goal? Why are we putting people in scenes? What are we seeing? what ah Would you like to tell yeah the people? What is this about? What are we doing?
01:33:18
Speaker
um Man, so you, I mean, at the beginning, you don't,
Mysterious Manor and Clue-like Mystery
01:33:24
Speaker
really know. You you know that you're kind of trying to figure out what the fuck happened here. And you see yeah ah a dude show up at the manor and he is like, um hey, I was invited here by i was invited to galley house by the master of the house and somebody's like, oh, I'll go get him. And somebody answers the door and he's like, oh, you must be blank.
01:33:52
Speaker
And the guy's like, what? There's no one here by that name. Right. And they're like, well, you might as well come in. And everyone's like, what the fuck is this guy doing here?
01:34:03
Speaker
He says he was invited by. But they him anyway. He says that he was invited by. i think we could say it because he says it right away. i think it's in the very first scene. So he was invited by Edwin Galley.
01:34:16
Speaker
But everyone's like, there is no Edwin Galley. None of us have ever fucking heard of an Edwin Galley. how would he have invited you and how would he have known that we were all getting together here on this night yeah what the what the hell is this yeah right um it's very sus and yeah and then this is yeah this isn't going to be too big of a spoiler This will probably be the the um the last of the spoilers of the story we'll give unless we decide to go to a spoiler section.
01:34:55
Speaker
But pretty soon, a body is discovered.
01:35:00
Speaker
and it's and Yeah. everyone's like, I don't know who this person is. Right. Even though in the game, they did know who this person was.
01:35:17
Speaker
give Do you know what I'm saying? so like the for the care The characters walk into a room and find a body and they say... Oh, thinking of the second body. My bad.
01:35:29
Speaker
My bad. My bad. So they walk into a room and they're like they're like, all right, well, you know, it's storming outside. we They're saying this to the guy who arrived. It's storming outside. We can't send you back out in this. Yeah. Besides ah our car got stuck. that Your car it got stuck in the mud, apparently. Yeah. so It is a very Clue-like, Clue movie beginning. That's all I could think about. Yeah.
01:35:54
Speaker
And they're like, we're all spending the night so you can spend the night too. You can spend the night in this other room. They go into the room and there's just a random dead body laying there that none of them recognize. they're like who the fuck is this person? How are they in our house?
01:36:08
Speaker
Why are they dead? and they appear maybe to have died of natural causes. Right. and everything sort of erupts from there. um You know...
01:36:23
Speaker
from the newspaper you read before you got to the like at the the almost the first thing you do in the game that there's a this is the night that everybody in this house died right so you know that all these people presumably are going to die right but Well, I mean, and that's just, that's not even a spoiler. That's just how whodunits work. And, you know, it's, it's taking from Agatha Christie, you go into an Agatha Christie thing, like, and then there were none with a title like that. Assuming that this is a game about, yeah. And the game kind of sets it up that way anyway, because it, it, we're trying to figure out why people have died and how they died and what is the incident at Galley House, essentially.
01:37:14
Speaker
Right. So then, you know, you're just going through trying to figure out you're you're sort of like where, what are all the rooms? Who are all the people? All these numbers.
01:37:25
Speaker
I've got to figure out who who these people who each one is. You eventually get a bunch of pictures. You assign pictures to them and then they stop being silhouettes in the scene. They start being the people.
01:37:41
Speaker
But not for me. Yeah, you want to explain that? it didn't do i I don't know what happened. I didn't do that. You didn't realize you could.
01:37:52
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't realize you could. i think some of the UI is a little unclear. And at the beginning, it's unclear on purpose, and that's part of the fun and part of the mystery. But I think i think as you go along,
01:38:08
Speaker
clearly you can miss some important things and make the game maybe ah what I would have found ah less enjoyable. I still, strangely enough, I still loved it because I took so many notes and I just knew who everyone was at the end, but you're right.
01:38:27
Speaker
It would have been so much better, so much better if they were not silhouettes in my game, like the whole time. There were these lovely little character designs that I didn't, I guess I didn't see. um But still, I mean, I think i guess that's just a props to the game because I still really liked it. I still was super into it. yeah Without seeing any of the characters. Yeah.
01:38:53
Speaker
i like There's no like animation, right? The characters just stand still in a spot. And you're right it's it's kind of funny. If they sit down, they turn to silhouettes again. And then their face hovers above their silhouette. Oh, see, I didn't even i didn't get to see that. Because there's only one image of each person.
01:39:14
Speaker
So there's not like an image of them standing and an image of them sitting. they sit down... if they sit down it I do know what they look like. I just want to make that clear because we talk, I did get the evidence. I did get the photos of all the, the characters. So I did know who they were and I did have it written down. I, I just wasn't getting what you're describing.
01:39:35
Speaker
Even the static imagery. Oh, well. There's some other interesting things that happen. um that add to add to the mystery here. Um,
01:39:48
Speaker
as you're solving these things, you keep kind of being brought back to and not only, I mean, you're always at the machine, right? So you're always in this framing device a little bit.
01:40:00
Speaker
um But you kind of keep being brought back to reality because you keep, there keep being these claps
01:40:12
Speaker
ah c collapse of thunder, And your machine shorts out. Right. And you have to go rev it up again, your generator.
01:40:26
Speaker
um And every time that happens, when you come back to your machine, there's notes there that weren't there before.
01:40:38
Speaker
Right.
01:40:41
Speaker
And you're not even really sure who they're coming from or why... Yeah. Like why they're there. yeah there's Yeah. You are alone in this house. So why is there just suddenly... And there are some other... i don't i don't... I don't want to give them all away, but there's some other like little quirky things that happen.
01:41:05
Speaker
There's like... At one point, there's a picture. And if you look at it at one point, it looks like one thing. And if you look at at another point, It changes.
01:41:18
Speaker
It's really smartly thought out. Okay, this is, I think, where we decide. what What else do you have to say about this game that's not spoilery? um That's not spoilery.
01:41:32
Speaker
I think it it we might have to talk about this into spoiler sections, because even though I loved the mechanic of this game, I actually... struggle with the story a little bit. And you know where we'll be going because I've kind of lamented some of my frustrations. And actually, we've already kind of commented on what I find frustrating in ah in a heavy narrative game when we were playing like Letter Lost and you were talking about Solitaire. um yeah i don't have anything else that that is um non-spoilery i i think we described the mechanic really well and i think we're gonna have to go into some spoilers to continue to talk about it i i agree and i yeah so there's i mean this game for the people that we're about to lose for the spoiler section this game is incredible um
01:42:26
Speaker
it is unique. It is super smart. um
01:42:38
Speaker
The,
01:42:41
Speaker
um the twists and turns are very surprising. Yeah. um And what, what you eventually find out is unlike any story I've ever seen.
01:42:58
Speaker
I've ever seen before. the Same. Yeah. Very unique. Why don't we spin up that old Vitrola again?
01:43:10
Speaker
And we will ah we'll be back in a second with some spoilers. and And yeah, those of you who don't want any spoilers ye or who haven't played the game yet, come back when you hear the music again and what's and and listen to us say goodbye to you.
01:43:47
Speaker
You have some qualms here. I have some qualms with the story, yeah. So... Again, when you go into this game, it really does play and read like a whodunit. I really, really thought and really hoped that there was going to be like a murderer or some ah some villain type of a character. um i wanted it to be a murder mystery, and that's how it was reading to me, but it does twist a little bit. it It's actually not really a whodunit. It's actually more of a story about what we're told is a curse, right?
01:44:22
Speaker
um yeah on the people of this manor. And the curse has to do... I don't like this curse. like I love this game. I don't like this curse. It it it makes me have way too many questions. But yeah I don't even know if I could explain it correctly. So basically, remember how we said that people were not remembering who this guy was or they claimed to not who know who this dead body was? They did know who he was at one point. Well... um Go ahead. is Yeah. So like I think maybe maybe a good way to explain this part is.
01:44:59
Speaker
At some point somebody is going to die.
01:45:06
Speaker
Who you know who you know by name. You might even have their picture who people have talked to. And people will look at that person's body. And basically go like who the fuck is that.
01:45:18
Speaker
Right.
01:45:21
Speaker
So basically when people die in this game, everybody forgets who they are. However, the curse comes in. That's not actually the curse. The curse comes in where if you happen to remember them, then you are also going to die. You have to basically not. die Yeah, you're the next person to die if you remember who that person is. And I just don't like that. I don't like that curse. I don't like that story. It's just not believable to me.
01:45:52
Speaker
I love that story. I understand why they don't explain. Right. And I get that that is that can be frustrating. It's like because.
01:46:07
Speaker
All right. Here's the next thing you need to know is that the second act of this game you play as the person running the machine. yeah that and you find it you have been there with other people this entire time yeah you don't perceive them because you've forgotten them all yeah unbelievable storytelling um it was yeah it was such a good i don't want to i would you call that a twist or would you call that something else what would you call think what they did there
01:46:40
Speaker
I mean, i think it's I think it's a twist. Okay. It's just a kind of an unconventional one because it's like it's like a twist by continuing the story in an unexpected way, but then it makes you have to revisit everything you've done before because eventually... Okay, so you find out that there's a bunch of... Oh, man, this is so there's so much here. And i don't want i want people to still be able to to solve this game, so I don't want to like... yeah And you will, even with these spoilers, you will be able to... There's still some mystery here because you still have to figure out where who everybody is, where everybody was at every any given point. um
01:47:20
Speaker
There's still plenty of stuff to figure out. Oh, yeah. The game is is all puzzles. you know like They have to have to figure it out to get anywhere. But like what you find is that the curse also creates a thunderclap every time it kills somebody.
01:47:35
Speaker
Right. um So then you're going back and looking at what's the the thing that I already said in the previous section of this podcast where there have been thunderclaps. Right.
01:47:52
Speaker
As you have been doing this game, as you have been working on this machine, and so you as the player are suddenly like, wait, who the fuck died?
01:48:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. is that yeah Yeah, just now with me. Yeah. an Amazing twist. Honestly, one of the best, like, twists I've seen in a game. It makes so much sense, even though I'm, like, you know, kind of bitching a little bit about the story. I do like that twist, like, so much.
01:48:24
Speaker
So good. So, you know, in this other sequence, right? They don't call it a curse. They call it a virus.
01:48:36
Speaker
And I think that's probably what might be fucking you up. Right? Is that they turned it from this like magical premise where it's like there is some curse over the house that you you kind of as a player think you're think part of your the point of the game is unraveling.
01:48:55
Speaker
Where did this curse start? who Who put this curse on the house and why? Yeah. And it and it doesn't. Instead you jump to the future. And you get some hints about the past. Some things yeah like this has been going on before the galleys.
Curse Mechanics and Narrative Depth
01:49:11
Speaker
um And you get some hints about that. And so you think, oh, I'm going to go into the past.
01:49:18
Speaker
I'm going to go even further back and see where this curse started. but you you don't. Right. So presumably so you can stop it. So we learned that the machine is like a seance machine.
01:49:30
Speaker
And we're like recalling. Yeah. These scenes in hopes, I guess, you find the curse and stop it or the sickness or or whatever. And you go to the future and it turns it from magic into sci-fi. and it's like, oh, it's a virus.
01:49:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And. That, I don't think it is a virus. I think it is a magical curse and virus is just how they were rationalizing it. Right.
01:49:57
Speaker
But we still never figure out why there's a curse, what the curse is. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted... I really loved this game, truly, but I really wanted some explanation. I felt like a story like this, like if you're going to go with curses and viruses, i really do want to know the backstory, especially if your entire game is set up to do callbacks and to unravel something and to figure something out. It's like, this is what you're setting me up for. i thought, yeah,
01:50:32
Speaker
And I just, I also didn't quite like the, I just don't like the, you you forget people. And if you remember them, I just don't quite understand how that works.
01:50:43
Speaker
Um, I, I loved it because it made the, um, mystery so interesting. Why are people, why are people not remembering people that we just saw them talking to was such an interesting question to explore.
01:50:57
Speaker
um Yeah, I think i I could agree that then finding out that the moment that you remember people you die was a little... i might not have loved that part of it Yeah, I don't love that part. Yeah, I don't love that. And I can't explain why. i just know that they when I discovered that was the trigger,
01:51:23
Speaker
I remember being a little disappointed, but... Right, right.
01:51:29
Speaker
But the... That I was willing to forgive. the thing the The only thing that bums me out about this game, I think this game is nearly perfect. The only thing that bums me out about this game is that we don't go to the past and figure out where the fuck this curse started.
01:51:42
Speaker
yeah that it It absolutely feels like it's leading there. and it not only i'm not I'm not trying to criticize this game for something that it isn't. like If that's not what they wanted to do, okay, fine. But but They make me think about that.
01:52:02
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. By talking about that this happened before to other people. And they give me names of other people who I write down in my fucking real notebook because I'm like, I'm going to need these names later.
01:52:17
Speaker
Yes. um Same. And. yeah I and it is. It's such an interesting mystery that I wanted more of it.
01:52:32
Speaker
and Yeah, me too. Maybe there'll be a DLC eventually. um Or an incident at Galley House 2 where we go back even further and we figure out what the mystery is. I would love yeah either of those fucking things to happen. Me too. Like, I just wanted to know...
01:52:48
Speaker
Again, i did I don't always need to know a why in a story if it if it doesn't merit that. But in this, like we're talking about, we're talking about these games that set us up with these like breadcrumbs and they're implying that we're doing a good job and we're going to find something out. And i just I just didn't. I just didn't have the answers I wanted. And I still want them.
01:53:09
Speaker
Who is the... We just use...
01:53:14
Speaker
we can just use
01:53:18
Speaker
We'll just use first names. Okay. And we will try not to put them too much in context because we've spoiled the story, so I don't want to spoil all the puzzles. But who's like the the the last person who you figured out who they were?
01:53:32
Speaker
The last person? Oh, the very – yes. same Yeah, I imagine it's the same now that I think about it. i bet it is. It's – how do I say this without spoiling it, though? Oh, yeah, yeah. This is the one that would be – This is the one that would be impossible to say without spoiling. Correct. it's the There's an outlier person. and There's a person who... Yes, there's a person who is an unlikely victim.
01:53:59
Speaker
Yes. Who is... Oh my god. You even know that this happened to her. and Yeah. And the...
01:54:14
Speaker
your documents include her death and they misunderstand why she died and how she died right yeah um fuck yeah because she she dies with a with a will in nearby or in her hand correct yep and so they think that this is a oh my god it's so brilliant ah That's such a smart thing to do, right? To give you something that you think and to tell you this is unconnected. These are two unconnected cases. And you as the player, like, yeah, they would have to be unconnected because we know how this works out.
01:54:58
Speaker
And then find out, no, they're fucking not unconnected. They are super connected. Yeah, yeah. That was definitely the last one I found just because I, like I said, I kind of knew where it was going, but it took a little bit longer.
01:55:13
Speaker
Which I think makes sense for the story and the in the design of the game just in general. What was your methodology for going through this? guy we i already know for rooms you just...
01:55:27
Speaker
you just yeah You were just like, what's in Clue? ah Well, not all of them. I did that at one point where I noticed a theme to how bunch rooms were named.
01:55:43
Speaker
how a bunch of rooms were named Sure. Yeah. so it's like Oh, I'm just going to follow that theme. I'm just going to follow that theme. And turned out that i was right. um And i don't think that there was, I think you were supposed to do that. I don't think there was agree a specific clue where somebody says all those word names out loud. um i agree. Yeah, I agree.
01:56:05
Speaker
Yeah, I had gotten one right and then I got the rest of them right. So after that, what was, what was kind of like your methodology? ah Not good, honestly. i was i really feel, apparently, because I missed some stuff, but I i do feel that I was bouncing around quite ah quite a lot. I did try to at first follow...
01:56:28
Speaker
Like certain characters, right? Because this is a game where people are moving around, right? So for a little while, was following the butler. I was following him. was just like, I need to figure out... Maybe if I figure out where he is going and he can... followed him for a That was the first character I decided to follow.
01:56:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I was following the butler. Wow, i wonder I wonder if everyone's going to have a very similar experience of this game. Because like it feels... it is like Technically, it is nonlinear. You could go in any... but Is this game so well designed that it leads you everybody on the exact same path? I don't know if it's if it's like that. I think that that because that was earlier in the game, you were still collecting clues that you just didn't have a lot of leads.
01:57:14
Speaker
The fact that we both started by following the butler yeah is really interesting. Yeah, I followed him. Basically, some point I got kind of like, again, a little haphazard with it, but I mostly tried to focus, like target on one person and what they're saying and see if I can put them somewhere else or if I could follow them somewhere. Or if I knew, know, if I knew the butler was here at this point and somebody else was like, based on the first scene, they were room. Yeah. It's tough to explain, but I feel like I struggled a little bit with it because there's really a lot of scenes, you guys. There is a lot going on in this house and it branches and it's kind of like the Colonel's Bequest in a way where something is happening. Reminded me a lot of the Colonel's Bequest. Yeah.
01:58:07
Speaker
It does, yeah. And you're you're triggering these scenes, right? That's exactly what you do in Colonel's Bequest. And sometimes things are happening at this stage. Sometimes you can miss things, which i think you I think I have missed things in this game. I don't think I completed ining this game. Yeah. so I think I beat this game.
01:58:27
Speaker
You get an achievement for seeing every scene. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I have all the achievements of this game. I know i am i know i went through this game 100%.
01:58:40
Speaker
My methodology, you know, I started with like you like you did, following the butler and then following kind and then haphazardly kind of following any clues I could. And then i was like,
01:58:55
Speaker
okay, here's what I'm going to do. going to figure out where... everybody is at any given time. Yeah. So like, the and the UI helps with this. um Once you get the UI all figured out, ah there is a list of scenes.
01:59:14
Speaker
And when you turn to a specific time period, it will, it will give you a list of all the scenes you've seen and it'll, all the characters that you've seen for that time will be Will they be lit up or are they dim? I think they're dimmed.
01:59:36
Speaker
And all the characters who you haven't seen are lit up. Right. So you can tell, who do I not know where they were on time number five? yeah Correct. so does Yes, it does help you.
01:59:49
Speaker
And that's also how I found out that, here's ah here's another big spoiler, but we're in spoiler section, that the characters die in reverse numerical order. Right. Yeah, yeah. um So every time there was a thunderclap, I knew who died. Right.
02:00:07
Speaker
And it was shocking every time. Like, no, not him. No, not her. No, not I liked her. did you feel that way when you hear a thunderclap? Were you like, no! I did. Especially at a certain character that I came to like, I got really attached to. So sad.
02:00:26
Speaker
First name. Annie. Annie. Annie. Yeah. Yeah. i felt sad Thankfully, she she she dies pretty late, right?
02:00:39
Speaker
She does die later. Yeah. I was still sad because she's yeah, yeah, yeah. um Yeah. I mean, I was sad. i didn't want Victoria to die.
02:00:51
Speaker
Yeah, well, I didn't want anyone to die. They're not, well yeah you know. Well, yeah, all right, fine. Yeah, fine. If you're going to high road me like that, yes. I'm a good person.
02:01:03
Speaker
But, i you know, also, I really didn't want Eve to die. Sure. um Because I hadn't figured out the numerical thing by then. So I kind of expected expected she would stick around a lot longer. um Okay. Okay.
02:01:16
Speaker
And I thought she had an interesting perspective that was different than everybody else. So did Anne. Yeah. Annie. um But I thought she had an an interesting perspective that was different from everybody else's.
02:01:29
Speaker
And I wanted to see how, as the story unfolded, she would continue to react to things. And now she dies pretty early. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, she dies really early. that's like That was shocking to me. I'm just like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Most of the people that died, very few of them was say like, all right, it's their time. Yeah. Most of them most of them that died, I was like Did you solve anything by just thinking about how storytelling works? Like, there was at least, there was a couple scenes where i was like, no, these two people haven't had a scene together in a while. Yeah, absolutely. And they have some unresolved business.
02:02:11
Speaker
So they are yeah probably are, and they probably will have a scene together. and Definitely. Yeah. And I like you don't have any clues for it. You're just kind of like, I know how storytelling works. So I'm going to solve it way.
02:02:28
Speaker
Yeah. And like you said, there's not, you know, you can solve these things in different ways. You can do it like I was guessing. It's, you know, making educated, not just like floundering, but making educated guesses. Yeah. uh you could follow certain characters and yeah you can deduce absolutely it's a deduction game right so i think it makes sense to deduce by like the storyline and storytelling
02:02:53
Speaker
this is so i realized this is barely a podcast anymore this is just us talking about how we liked this game but well what makes i mean what makes a podcast a podcast you know Yeah, but if fair enough. Hey, good good question. but Thank you. But we should bring it back into a structure. So is there is there anything else that we that you need to talk about, that you need to get out about this game? Is there anything that the spoilers of this, anything else that the spoilers of this game affects your you know opinion of it
02:03:29
Speaker
No, I think I basically got out what I, you know, I lamented about my frustrations with not wanting more explanation. And that's always going to be, yeah you know, depending on the story, that's always going to be something for me. i just like to know.
02:03:44
Speaker
i just like having answers. that's I just want answers. That's all. I i understand. um and I, yeah, and i in in this case, I don't disagree. I do disagree with the, we have different opinions about where, about whether this curse is a cool storying storytelling device by itself. I think it is. um But where we agree is we both wanted in more explanation.
02:04:14
Speaker
Yeah. And just really enjoyed enjoyed this mechanic in the deduction. The cutting to the present. Did we talk about that in this? A little bit, yeah. A little bit. Oh, I said if it's like the best twist I've like ever seen. It's so good.
02:04:29
Speaker
It's so good because you cut to the present and my god, like then I... when you when you The moment you do that, you realize all the thunderclaps were people dying in front of you. And fucking and then you're like, oh my god, people were the there were people leaving these things in front on the on my za on my machine. and i And it's not that I forgot them.
02:04:54
Speaker
That's what happened. Yeah. No, it's really clever. it's at The way they integrate that into the present. it That takes a lot of like...
02:05:05
Speaker
A lot of thought, honestly, and a lot of like structure and planning to make a twist like that, I think. this This actually, you know, here's something i I didn't love. This actually brings another criticism up.
02:05:19
Speaker
I didn't like how villainous
02:05:23
Speaker
the, I guess, final character was. Or the second, I guess we are the final character, right? were you getting yeah Were you getting that impression that there was like a villain type thing going on? Yeah, i guess yeah yes there was it was. He was like, I'm going to try and save everybody by actively murdering people. Okay. right Yeah, that's fair. That is what a villain does. And granted, he sacrifices himself in the end and he's saying he's trying to do it for the good of everybody and he kind of is doing it for the good of everybody. Yeah.
02:06:02
Speaker
But
02:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's one of those villains who's like, it's for the good of the world. what Meanwhile, causing like mass destruction. but also Yeah, but also... Yeah, like like yeah, yeah yeah he's actually yeah. He's actively hurting people that we see.
02:06:21
Speaker
are we out of Are we out of spoiler section? We're out of spoiler section. I think this game is a goatee contender already. I mean, not already. We're halfway through the year.
02:06:34
Speaker
ah um Just forget what what the fuck month we're in here. This is a year that had station to station, perfectized station to station, which... That's my goatee. Which is... what I'm not going to say what my goatee is yet. I'm not going to spoil it. I change my mind a lot. So I don't know. I say things and then who knows? yeah i'm just bad I'm just being ridiculous. Yeah. I'm just being silly. Of course. Yeah. Things can move around. So, but you know, there's some, but there's some big, heavy fucking hitters that are vying for number one. Perfect tide to station to station. Esoteric ebb was so good. and So good. and So good. Oh man. I want to play that right now.
02:07:14
Speaker
incident at galley house even even like mean of a hollower and me even like fucking paranormal site right oh right yeah yeah i almost forgot we dude i enjoyed that like so much oh i have a i have a quick thing hold on this will be the last game we talk about today hold on yes
02:07:41
Speaker
Playdate with Matt. Okay, so I haven't played a game on a play on the Playdate this past couple weeks, but okay it's a Playdate with Matt update. Okay. There was a game I talked about on Playdate with Matt like a year, year and a half ago or something called... it was about ah is about a cute little ghost in a haunted house solving puzzles. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. It was called Life's Too Short.
02:08:08
Speaker
Will a full color...
02:08:12
Speaker
The remaster of the game has been released first released on Steam. Oh, cool! So if you don't have a play date, you can now go play Life's Too Short.
02:08:28
Speaker
I'm so excited. i'm excited! that's awesome. I haven't played it yet, so I can't speak to its quality. But it was such a cute little game. And yeah, just ah just quickly. All right.
02:08:41
Speaker
Oh, that's so great.
02:08:45
Speaker
Playdate with Matt. Yeah, okay, so thank you guys all for listening and being here.
02:08:57
Speaker
Listening to this extra long episode. Yeah. We had a lot to talk about. feels like we go It feels like we've done this before. Yeah, we've had episodes this long, but it is it is not common, right? I think it might be.
02:09:14
Speaker
Most of our episodes, I think, are under two hours. We'll have to see. We'll have to see. This one, even after editing, I think is going to be ah just over two hours. Yeah, maybe. we'll see We'll see how I feel about the edit. don't know how much I edit out.
02:09:34
Speaker
But yeah, um... I don't know what, you know, I don't, I'm not sure that we're we're we'll try to stay on schedule, but I don't, I don't know, you know, no, we're not going to commit to that right now, but there are some cool games.
02:09:49
Speaker
What? We have an announcement.
02:09:54
Speaker
Oh, yes. Go ahead. Please. Okay, we have announcement. I'm so excited. So I'm happy to tell you guys that we're going to be speaking at Adventure X this year in a few months in London Save Your Game Live.
02:10:10
Speaker
We're doing it. we're Yeah, it's not we're not just doing ah a talk. We are doing save your game live. We're doing a version of this podcast live. um Maybe we'll have more details as it gets closer to the thing. But yeah, in November, we'll be in London im doing a live version of this podcast. And hopefully we can record it and put it up on this feed afterwards.
02:10:31
Speaker
I'm so excited. I'm excited as well. It's going to be a super, super fun time. Yeah, it's going to be so fun. and i You guys know I don't really do conventions very often, so this is kind of my special little like, yeah, I'll do this. I will definitely talk at Adventure X because that's kind of my jam, you know?
02:10:51
Speaker
Right. Next up, the Murder, She Wrote convention, which is a real thing. That's not a joke. Oh, my God. If you know fuck if you get to if you manage to get a show at the Murder, She Wrote convention, let me come help you with it. Let me come...
02:11:05
Speaker
Let me come do the B-A-O. would you do, B-A-O. What you call it? What do you call it? Like running the mic? Or? me come help produce it. That's the word I'm looking for. me come it. You can, like, dress up. You could dress up as, like, Sheriff Tupper. That would make me happy.
02:11:25
Speaker
Why does everyone always want me to dress up at conventions? I don't know. he just sound like that, too. Okay? Okay. So, i yeah, I don't know if we are, I don't know when the next episode will come out but Hopefully next week, maybe a week or two, maybe a couple weeks. I don't know yet. um We both have some pretty intense things going on in our lives right now. But I know there's a game that we both want to talk about.
02:11:51
Speaker
Yes, there is. That just came out. Should we say it? Yeah, let's just say it. The Mermaid Mask is out. Mermaid Mask, the next Detective Grimoire. Yeah, so i I think you can, I think it'd be a safe bet to guess that the next episode, or maybe, who knows, it could be two episodes from now. But it's a safe bet to guess that we're the mermaid mask is probably the next big game we talk about. We always come back because we love you.
02:12:21
Speaker
Also, I want to... ah give a little promotion to a game that I have a very brief cameo in It's called Max Savage. It's by Tim Raycore.
02:12:34
Speaker
um It's a, I'll just read it. The steam page is a retro arcade space combat meets action adventure exploration game. um And it's a cute little ah retro uh look in game and i have a i have a brief little cameo in it so i think i have a cameo in it really think we both have cameos in it wow see if you can find our our lines nice we're famous uh right everybody why don't you do us a favor
02:13:15
Speaker
And follow us on Instagram at
02:13:25
Speaker
um You got it! You did it! Yes. um You can also, we're also, obviously, all these are posted on YouTube, so like and comment and share all that stuff.
02:13:37
Speaker
You can also email us at mattandroses at gmail.com.
02:13:44
Speaker
What else can they do? um They can like send me some bagels. I really like bagels. I will accept bagels. You could subscribe to my YouTube channel, fam. ah You could go listen to, if you can't if you just cannot get enough of Matt Aucamp. At bagely.com where you can buy it where you like you can You can send a bagel to your favorite creator once a day.
02:14:10
Speaker
Don't be alarmed. I'm the only one signed up for this that you can send bagels to. Don't even worry. And you can probably coordinate. Oh, thank you.
02:14:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. i it's it's It's been a lot of fun. Matt loves podcasts. That's what I've learned about my BFF, Matt, is that you love a podcast moment.
02:14:34
Speaker
I love a podcast moment. I like listening to podcasts. I like making podcasts. Yeah. um I think it's like talking. I think it's a fucking cool medium. I think it's, you know. It's like a radio show. It's like like old school.
02:14:49
Speaker
Yeah. it's like It's like a radio show, but you can be a little more but a little more casual and accessible to everybody. a And graphic. Yeah. You can say fucking bitch.
02:15:02
Speaker
That's it though. Just fucking finish. All right, everybody. That only leaves one last thing to do before we get the fuck out of here. And that's just to let you guys know this one universal truth that is has always been true and always will be true. And i the thing about me loving podcasts is I love them because podcast is art.
02:15:31
Speaker
Right. And that, i mean, it just goes without saying, because I'm an artist, artists suffer. Artists suffer.