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Employee Engagement through Adversity
58 Plays4 years ago
In this episode, we're talking about employee engagement during times of adversity -- and let's face it, we've all been dealing with a touch of adversity lately with the COVID-19 pandemic upending things on both personal and professional levels. With all this uncertainty, employee engagement can be a bit precarious. When people aren't engaged, productivity lags, and sales and marketing efforts can suffer.
Thankfully, we've got Jacqueline Throop-Robinson joining us to discuss how to manage employee engagement through adversity. Jacqueline, the founder of Spark Engagement, Inc., has a 30-year career focused on uplifting leaders and inspiring passionate engagement at all levels of an organization. As a best-selling author of Fire Up Your Team: 50 Ways for Leaders to Connect, Collaborate and Create with their Teams, Jacqueline strives to create cultures of passion, productivity, and performance.
During our conversation with Jacqueline, we cover:
- Employee engagement levels -- before and during the pandemic
- Employee engagement as part of disaster preparedness planning
- Managing teams and morale during times of uncertainty
- Applying "lessons learned" during the COVID-19 pandemic to future periods of adversity
- and more
Want to connect with Jacqueline online?
- Website: www.sparkengagementindex.com
- LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelinethroop-robinson/
--
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Transcript
Introduction to B2B Mix Show
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the B2B Mix Show with Elena and Stacey. In each episode, we'll bring you ideas that you can implement in your sales and marketing strategy. We'll share what we know along with advice from industry experts who will join us on the show. Are you ready to mix it up? Let's get started.
00:00:19
Speaker
Hey everybody, this is Stacey Jackson. And I'm Elena Jackson. We are the co-founders of Jackson Marketing. And in case you still haven't heard, we are also sisters. Stacey, what are we talking about?
Impact of COVID-19 on Employee Engagement
00:00:31
Speaker
Today, we are talking about employee engagement through adversity because, hey, we're all going through a little bit of adversity right now, aren't we?
00:00:40
Speaker
with this COVID-19 pandemic stuff. We're in lockdown. Some of us are facing serious sales and marketing challenges and productivity challenges with all the remote working from home. And that's going to impact employee engagement. And then it's a vicious cycle. If engagement's down, that impacts everything else.
00:01:02
Speaker
Lane, what do you think about this topic for today's podcast? I think it's definitely an important topic that we need to focus on because a lot of businesses have had to change their models and things have completely changed in their working environment. So making sure that employee engagement is on track and up is key for a lot of businesses to
00:01:27
Speaker
keep going and moving forward because you have to depend on those employees to be productive in their work and making sure that they have the right environment and that they are engaged with their work and with their coworkers is critical. So, Lynon, why don't you introduce today's guest who is an expert in the area of employee engagement. Sure thing.
Introduction to Jacqueline Throup Robinson
00:01:49
Speaker
Jacqueline Throup Robinson is the founder of Spark Engagement, a global analytics company in human resources focusing on employee engagement.
00:01:57
Speaker
Throughout her 30-year career, Jaclyn has focused on uplifting leaders and inspiring passionate engagement at all levels of an organization. As a bestselling author of Fire Up Your Team, 50 Ways for Leaders to Connect, Collaborate, and Create with Their Teams, Jaclyn strives to create cultures of passion, productivity, and performance. Her book has been described by one reviewer as the most important personal development book you'll read all year.
00:02:24
Speaker
Jacqueline is a multiple RBC Canadian Women Entrepreneur Awards nominee and is represented by the National Speakers Bureau. Jacqueline shares thought-provoking insights, research, and actionable advice on the principles of personal to organizational engagement.
00:02:42
Speaker
Her clients include a wide range of industries around the world. Jacqueline has worked throughout North America, as well as abroad, including Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, the United Kingdom and Bermuda. That's a lot of different places. So Jacqueline, welcome to the B2B mix show. Thank you very much.
00:03:00
Speaker
So do you speak a lot of different languages since you've kind of been in all those different places? I wish languages was the natural talent of mine, but it's my daughter's show, not mine. Fortunately, the world operates largely in English in the business context, and so I've been very blessed that way. That's true. If not, there's always an app, right? Yeah, all I do is those too, trust me.
00:03:26
Speaker
So Jacqueline, before we begin talking about employee engagement through adversity, would you like to tell our listeners a little bit about Spark Engagement?
Spark Engagement's Unique Approach
00:03:35
Speaker
Sure, that would be wonderful. Well, Spark Engagement does, of course, do employee engagement, but we do it quite differently. We build it from the ground up. So we center everything around the individual.
00:03:47
Speaker
We have an online individual assessment. We have online strategies and tactics for individuals to help them self-manage their engagement so that they can lead a fulfilling work experience, a work life that they really aspire to. And of course, we do work with organizations because we take that data and we create collective reports and help organizations do the things that we know work at an organizational level.
00:04:17
Speaker
We're all about the individual. So you kind of know a little bit about employee engagement then.
00:04:25
Speaker
that for about 20 years now. So before we kind of jump into the now, let's take a step back and go pre pandemic in the days where life was easy going. We weren't cooked up in our house and you know, going crazy. So according to some of the researchers, up to like 60% of the world's workforce is not engaged. And why is that?
00:04:51
Speaker
And what do we do about it? Does that seem high or does it seem like it's expected?
00:04:59
Speaker
Well, it's very interesting because I feel that that number is used to catch people's attention. I think it's a real, probably solid marketing strategy because it seems so high and people go, Oh, wow. But what we've found, because we have a very nuanced model where we're able to identify eight different states of engagement. So it's not just you're engaged or you're not.
00:05:23
Speaker
You could be disconnected, you could be stagnated, you could be quite neutral, you could feel frustrated. So we have all sorts of different states of engagement that are possible. And what we have found with our global database is about 25% are truly not engaged.
00:05:41
Speaker
you know, a third more than a third, a little more than a third are neutral, actually, which is really different than not being engaged, because it means you're, you're not positive, but you're not negative. And that is a critical group to influence when you're looking at your workforce. And then the remainder tend to be in what we call our positive states of engagement, we call them energized, engaged or passionate. So it is actually a much more hopeful picture than some of those headlines,
00:06:11
Speaker
indicate, but 25% is still significant. It's in an organization where you have a quarter that are truly not feeling the love for the career. You're going to feel it. You're going to be aware of it. And so our work is often using our models and what we know about what creates engagement to help people find the meaning and progress they need to move out of those negative states.
COVID-19's Effect on Employee Engagement
00:06:42
Speaker
So when we look at fast forwarding to now, where a lot of businesses are dealing with the adversity they are facing with the COVID-19 pandemic and everything that comes with that, it's definitely a new way of life and doing business. Have you seen how this pandemic has impacted employee engagement? Is there anything that you've observed?
00:07:06
Speaker
I've been interviewing many, many, many employees. A lot of my clients have asked for, you know, obviously through video conferencing technologies, but they really want to not just do a survey, but really have conversations with their employees. And what we found has been really, really interesting.
00:07:26
Speaker
Engagement in this context will depend on a combination of things. One is the individual's mindset, how they are viewing the world currently and their place in that world, but also how the organization is responding to COVID-19 and how they are working with employees to find solutions.
00:07:49
Speaker
It's all over the place. In some organizations, I have one client that had to reduce their work week from the traditional 37.5 work week down 20%. That is a different situation than a company who's been able to preserve compensation and benefits and is dealing more with helping employees be productive remotely. It is quite different depending on your particular situation, but
00:08:19
Speaker
There is an opportunity in tough times to strengthen employee engagement and so people are nervous about measuring employee engagement right now and i tell them not to be because.
00:08:32
Speaker
You want to know how people are feeling. You want to know what they think about things and so that you know what to do to support them. It's actually a terrific opportunity to strengthen employee engagement, even if you have difficult messages to deliver. Do you find a difference between a bigger company versus a smaller company on how they are able to influence that and execute employee engagement practices?
00:09:02
Speaker
Small companies may, depending on their industry, really struggling with generating cash right now, right? And so they may be faced with having to lay off people who've been with them a long time. And that can be just really, really challenging. The larger companies tend
00:09:22
Speaker
to have a bit more buffer for weathering this storm and are preserving more, you know, that foundation. I do think it's more challenging for smaller companies. Again, it would depend on the industry, but I think there's also an opportunity there because even in small businesses,
00:09:45
Speaker
people tend to be very close knit and they tend to understand and be very empathic with the business owner and understanding the challenges and so
00:09:55
Speaker
They tend to be willing to work with the business owner. And even if it is a really extreme situation where they can't remain employed for a period of time, I haven't found employees to be resentful of that, right? Because they really don't see what other options the owners had. In bigger companies, it's quite different. In our larger companies, employees are reacting
00:10:21
Speaker
quite positively, generally, as long as the larger companies have really strong communications. And the
Innovative Communication During the Pandemic
00:10:29
Speaker
other thing that I found to be completely essential is flexibility.
00:10:35
Speaker
We have a couple of clients who we had to kind of edge down the road of, it's not BAU. It's not business as usual. You can't expect the same level of productivity. If someone has small children at home or is caregiving for elderly parents, there's no way they can keep up their productivity. It's just not possible.
00:10:54
Speaker
So they may have to have different work hours, fewer work hours. And if the communication is strong and the flexibility is there, those I have found to be the two main ingredients. I think the third one though is finding really innovative ways to bring their team together even though it's remote. So I have one client who does quiz nights on Fridays with their employees. I have another one who has
00:11:23
Speaker
If they're in a small geography, they sent a bottle of wine to every employee and they had a happy hour. There's also opportunities to try to help people stay connected. I find most companies are very aware of people who live alone in this time and who don't even have a family to interact with.
00:11:48
Speaker
They're a household of one. And I have been very impressed with how my clients have been really supportive. One client even set up a buddy system so that people who live alone and do independent work, that they have people reaching out regularly to those people. That's a good idea. Yeah, because it would be very easy, right? If you're someone who normally works very independently and you live alone, you could be forgotten quite easily.
00:12:17
Speaker
Right. And especially not being able to go out anywhere right now, just to have that engagement in some way could make a huge difference for those individuals. Yes. I have an executive I coach and she is working abroad. So she lives alone. She has been, she was traveling just before the lockdowns and so she was quarantined and then the lockdowns.
00:12:45
Speaker
It was quite, she's been there longer than all of us. So my daughter and she are from the same, born in the same town in China. And I thought, you know what, this would be really cool. My daughter would love to meet her.
00:13:01
Speaker
So we had her over for dinner via video conferencing technology. So we cooked separately, we found a place on the table to put her, and we had dinner together. And I think doing things like that can really make a difference to people during this time.
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah, definitely because it's just such a crazy time that we're not used to and just to make that extra effort as a company can make a big difference for your employees and how they feel about your company.
00:13:34
Speaker
Absolutely. In fact, I have been encouraging one company I'm working with that's been struggling a little with employee engagement to just take on some of these ideas and make them their own, find something that's authentic to them, but to really reach out and it, I think they're going to have better employee engagement results this year than they've ever had. Hey folks, let's take a break to hear about today's sponsor.
00:14:06
Speaker
And we are back. Do you think that the companies that have never really done the remote work and are finding themselves kind of scrambling a bit? And even some of the companies that do have people, some people working from home have probably struggled as well, but do you think that
00:14:24
Speaker
employee engagement needs to be part of their disaster preparedness plans for situations like this that may arise. I mean, none of us really knew that this was coming. So you don't necessarily prepare for this where the whole country or the whole world is kind of put in place. But is it something that we need to start thinking about going forward, having that as part of our preparedness plan?
00:14:45
Speaker
Absolutely. I've been actually very surprised by clients who normally are very aware of employee engagement. So to put that in a box when the crisis hit now, I
00:14:56
Speaker
Get that in the very short term because you're just scrambling to figure out just how you're going to function. But I think absolutely it needs to be a critical part because what we do know about employee engagement is we do know that it makes a huge difference in terms of productivity, profitability, and innovation.
00:15:19
Speaker
So you want employees engaged at this time, regardless, you know, of your particular business situation, there's going to be tremendous value that they can add. And if we don't use that lens, we're going to miss a lot of opportunities. I just recently saw communication from a client, they were doing a wellness check in. And now I know that behind the scenes, they do care about their employees and their health and safety.
00:15:48
Speaker
And they thought that with this wellness check-in, they would be communicating that. But the way it comes across, when I looked at an early version of it,
00:16:01
Speaker
was very much we care about getting our work done and your productivity versus we care about you, right? And they just miss the opportunity to frame it in a way that they actually meant to. It's interesting. It's not, it's just they got too focused on the task and neglected. Got lost. Yeah. You know, it got lost.
00:16:25
Speaker
And so it could backfire on them, right? So if you don't really put that lens in your communications in terms of that, it could be not just a missed opportunity, but in that case, it could potentially backfire.
Engaging Remote Workers Effectively
00:16:42
Speaker
Right. Are there tools or technologies that you found that help in these situations to engage those remote workers?
00:16:50
Speaker
So what we've developed, we've actually developed our employee engagement tools and assessment through hardcore research. So we are not an opinion survey. We actually measure people's emotional states. So I'm working with one client right now and we're looking at a two-phased approach where we measure right now to see what is the emotional landscape? You know, are people frustrated?
00:17:15
Speaker
are they feeling disconnected? Are they still managed managing to stay fully engaged and even passionate about their work? Where are they? And then what we once we know the emotional landscape is we can develop strategies and tools. So for example, the core our research started with looking at passion at work.
00:17:35
Speaker
The two core drivers for people to be fully passionate about their work is they have to see their working career as highly meaningful. There's probably no surprise there. We've had a lot of literature on the importance of meaningful work, purposeful work. So that's not a surprise. The sources of meaning, though, can be quite unique for people, even though there are some common sources. But the surprise was,
00:18:01
Speaker
Equally important is you need to have a sense of progress that you're getting somewhere, that you're having an impact, that there are small wins to celebrate. You have to have that sense of progress. So employee engagement, looking through the meaning and progress lens, you can start to put your communications through that.
00:18:23
Speaker
and really constantly and consistently communicate what is meaningful about this from a shared meeting point of view. Individuals will take and connect to it in different ways. What are going to be our signals of progress? How are we going to manage things moving forward? How can you contribute to that? How will we be supporting that? And so even just looking at those macro drivers of meaning and progress can really
00:18:51
Speaker
give people a basic tool for managing employee engagement. And then it does come down to the individual level too. There's really no way around it. At some point, you have to deal with that individual level. The collective action is important and
00:19:07
Speaker
And we do a lot of work in that space. But each person's a unique human being with unique needs. They might connect to some of those shared initiatives and shared views. But I personally also need
00:19:24
Speaker
For example, my manager to understand where I'm coming from and what is most important for me. So for example, I was working with one organization where the parents who had small children at home were being given all the administrative work and the employer thought, Oh, that's great. They can do it on their own time. It can be, you know, completely flexible for them.
00:19:53
Speaker
And they pulled all the projects that were meaningful for that person and gave them to someone else. So her employee engagement went way down, right? I bet. Because for her, yes, it was important to have flexibility, but the meaning in her work just completely evaporated with just being given administration.
00:20:17
Speaker
So you have to deal at that individual level. And at times like this, it's really important that each line manager reach out to each person. And some line managers are not comfortable with that. One employee was telling me it took his line manager eight days to reach out to him to check on him. Now, eight days in self-isolation can feel like a long time. Right. Right.
00:20:45
Speaker
ability to check in and see what individual needs are during COVID-19. I mean, it's important anyway. You just don't need to do it as often under normal circumstances. But right now, when people are feeling really unnerved and anxious, it's important.
00:21:06
Speaker
Leaders obviously need to check in and take the steps that you've already mentioned to ensure that their team members are engaged, especially during some kind of crisis or adversity like this pandemic.
Transparency in Job Security Discussions
00:21:20
Speaker
For industries or businesses that are really facing some tough economic times where job security is a big question,
00:21:26
Speaker
Are there additional steps that managers should take? Obviously, they can't always promise there's going to be a job, but how can they keep people as engaged as possible when there could be job insecurity?
00:21:44
Speaker
Well, this could depend very much on the reality of that job insecurity. So because sometimes, again, that's perceived. So there's a lot you can do when it's perceived. You can ensure that people have the right information. One CEO I know has been holding town halls twice a week.
00:22:09
Speaker
He updates on anything new he confirms what hasn't changed and if he doesn't know where something's going He says he doesn't know
00:22:17
Speaker
people are very good at dealing with reality when they are clear on what the reality is. And so even if it is not looking good, people need to know the reality. And I think often we hold back from that for obvious reasons, because those are difficult messages to deliver, but people deserve to know where they stand. Also, they need to be given a balanced point of view and
00:22:46
Speaker
you know, what is within their control? What are the things that they can do now? I have one company that has started offering a lot of online learning and development as a way of keeping people interested who can't actually, they're at home, but they can't do their work from home, right? They're kind of at loose ends. Well, this company understands that's not good for them. So they're doing, they're offering free online mindfulness training, resilience training, even skill upgrades.
00:23:15
Speaker
So trying to keep their employees feeling positive and engaged, even if things are not looking that promising.
00:23:23
Speaker
I think honest communication is key, right? I worked for a really big company years ago, and to this day, they still sometimes go through rounds of layoffs. And during those times, if they had just communicated with us, you know, don't hide that there's going to be more. Say, yeah, there will be more or something. That would have made me feel much better.
00:23:47
Speaker
but they would just kind of glass over and hide the fact that they knew that they were coming. And then the next day we'd have more rounds of layoffs when yesterday they said, no, we're good, we're good. And it was just like you're on pins and needles. That does not help you as an employee want to be engaged with the company because you feel like they're hiding things from you and they're not being honest with you about what's happening. And I know that you can't share everything with employees, but there are some lines of communication you can
00:24:15
Speaker
be upfront about. And I think especially right now, some of those things, a lot of people are on pins and needles. So I think that the communication is key in these situations.
00:24:26
Speaker
absolutely key. And you know, what can I share? And what can't I share? You can share what you can share. You know, you can say, I'm not able to speak to this, but I can tell you this. And you know, the greatest compliment I think right now that CEOs are getting and the people I'm speaking with are saying, you know, he or she's been very transparent.
00:24:48
Speaker
You know, genuine. I think right now we just need to feel that human to human connection, even if it involves bad news, right? That the person is being respectful of us. They're treating us with dignity. And I think honesty is a critical piece of that. And then helping equip people and helping them feel like they are empowered and accountable. I mean, that's what we're trying to do with our individual assessment is to say,
00:25:18
Speaker
Don't say in your head to yourself, it's the company, it's my manager's job to make my work experience positive. Really own it for yourself and power yourself with that because you can create this for yourself. And I think that's an important message to remind people
00:25:38
Speaker
We are innately creative people. We are innovative as people. And sometimes people feel insecure about that, but they will be able to respond to the challenge. Even if they do lose their current job, people are resilient and we have to really support each other in that as well. And I think that message can get lost with a lot of the fear messaging that's out there. It's not really a balanced message right now.
00:26:07
Speaker
And I think that's also important to remind people of their own power to, uh, uh, influence, you know, their own outcomes and their own future. We've talked about some of the, some of the big lessons that we've learned during this process, but what would you say is the biggest lesson that managers and leaders need to look at right now and apply to their process to get employees engaged?
Holistic View of Employee Needs
00:26:36
Speaker
What popped into my mind when you asked that question is I think more than ever organizations are seeing employees in their whole state. You know, they're thinking more about their family situations. They're thinking more about their emotional and mental and physical needs. They're really thinking about employees in a whole state. And I've never seen that before.
00:27:06
Speaker
So I really hope we can hang on to that so that we start to think of our workforce as made up of unique, special, whole employees that have their own needs and situations. And it is possible to work at the individual level, even if you are part of a very large organization. Technology enables that.
00:27:31
Speaker
There's a lot of tools and resources out there that enable that. So I think this holistic view is really been eye-opening for many of the CEOs I work with. Jacqueline, before we wrap up things with our final question, is there anything we didn't cover that you'd like to leave our listeners with? I think the most important thing with employee engagement and COVID-19
00:28:00
Speaker
is to not shy away from it. I think managers and leaders are just worried about getting bad news back, that the engagement results aren't going to be strong, that it's going to surface even more problems. And what I would say is it will give you information that will enable you to support the business and support each person on your team and lean into it.
00:28:28
Speaker
because it's invaluable data right now. And it will, if it's a good tool, it will point you in the right direction. So for our final question, we wanted to go a little more personal. So on a personal or professional level, what are some of the lessons that you have taken away from this whole situation?
00:28:52
Speaker
This has been a really important time for me personally. I am scaling up my business. We work in different countries. So it's very easy to be 24 seven on the job. And this pandemic has been a gift from me personally to slow down, to really assess, you know, what are my deepest passions? Cause I had gotten into a situation where
00:29:21
Speaker
in scaling up my business, I was doing a lot of work that wasn't that meaningful to me. And I wasn't feeling the progress I wanted to feel and yet I was pushing through because that's what you do. And I didn't realize until I stopped just how tired I was and how little self care I had
00:29:49
Speaker
done for months, maybe years. And it really gave me an opportunity to sort of to check in and it continues to, to check in and just see what is most important. Where do I get, you know, the most meaning from my work and how can I move those things forward and really allow that to drive the business forward rather than trying to
00:30:16
Speaker
you know, engage in activities that maybe are not so meaningful for me. And to really look after myself properly. I still have teenagers, I have elderly parents, and I have a lot of people who count on me. And I think I was kind of pushing the envelope too hard. And I hear a lot of people talking about that, you know, like that forced stop.
00:30:42
Speaker
and to reflect and reassess. I do think a lot of people are finding a fresh perspective on things. Yeah, I think so too. Especially when you're an entrepreneur, business owner, and you're kind of forced to take a little bit of a break and you're like, wow.
00:31:03
Speaker
I should be really taking care of myself or this passion or this project and don't always have to burn the candle at both ends. Yeah. And our culture really is a culture of busyness. I mean, it is just what we adopt, I think, sometimes without stopping to think about it too much. I had a CFO say to me recently, I don't have time to think. Right? I think that's not indicative of our culture sometimes. I do too. Yeah.
Connecting with the Hosts
00:31:31
Speaker
Well, Jacqueline, thank you so much for taking time to talk with us today about employee engagement through adversity. If our listeners would like to connect with you online, what's the best way for them to do that? Our website is sparkengagementindex.com and you can find out about our tools and resources there. And of course I'm on LinkedIn, Jacqueline Troop-Robinson, and those are probably the two best ways to get a hold of us.
00:31:57
Speaker
And we'll include those in the show notes. Thank you. All right, so make sure you go follow and connect with Jacqueline. And if you want to get in touch with me or Stacey, you can hit us up on social. On Twitter, you can find Stacey at Stacey underscore Jax. That's S-T-A-C-Y underscore J-A-X. And you can find me at Elena underscore Jax. That's A-L-A-N-N-A underscore J-A-X.
00:32:19
Speaker
And if you're not a Twitter fan, you can always look us up on LinkedIn under Stacey Jackson or Elena Jackson. And finally, don't forget, you can also leave us a voicemail on the Anchor mobile app or on our anchor.fm show page. See you next week. The B2B Mix Show is hosted by Stacey Jackson and Elena Jackson of, you guessed it, Jackson Marketing. If you need help with your B2B inbound marketing efforts, visit us at JacksonMarketingServices.com.