Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Bi Men Unfiltered, a podcast for today's curious and bisexual man hosted by older, wiser bisexual men who were also once curious. From identity and relationships to dating, sex, community, and everything in between, nothing's off the table. Honest, authentic, and we're not afraid to get a little and NSFW or more than a little. No shame, no stereotypes, just real conversations.
Speaker: On today's episode, telling your partner that you're bisexual. That's a big, big topic. It is. a hard one. Not the good kind of hard one.
Speaker: But I mean, you know, sometimes it can result in the kind of hard one. That's also true. Yes. We start the show with a word of the week. This week's word, more of an abbreviation,
Speaker: D-A-D-T. Do you know what that is? Don't and ask, don't tell. Don't ask, don't tell. Yes. And that is a relationship agreement in which partners agree not to disclose details of their other relationships.
Speaker: relationships. Usually that means one partner has permission in quotes, permission to cheat rather than both people having partners.
Speaker: So listening to your story, your current setup with your partner is that she doesn't want to hear about the details of your.
Speaker: She is She's definitely not ready to see it. See it. Okay. But does she want to hear about it? That's a more complicated answer than a yes or no.
Speaker: um well i I'll short version it as much as I can. but So we've mentioned the jerk off clubs. And there have been times that I have gone to events there that when I've gotten home, you know especially depending on what the ah the particular theme is, because for instance, they occasionally do nude yoga masturbation events.
Speaker: And so she'll be like, so what was that about? you know, what all well does that entail? Right, right. ah So you give answers about that.
Speaker: So far, at least when I have had one-on-one meets, there hasn't been. So what all did you do? Just did you have a good time?
Speaker: Okay, okay. So, got it you know, it's one of those that, know, it's been made clear to her that as much or little as she wants to know, I'm glad to share.
Speaker: And so far, you she hasn't wanted all of the gory details. Yep. But never say never. That's true. That's true. And a DADT setup is usually ah when when you open your marriage and one partner is looking to explore and the other partner not or happy to remain monogamous. So it is certainly a valid way of having a relationship.
Speaker: And maybe it will ah relate to some of what we're talking about in telling your partner because it may need to result in DADT sort of situation.
Speaker: Yep, possibly. Yes. I want to thank everybody for listening to the show and also for giving us your feedback on episode two, which was my bisexual journey story.
Speaker: you You all couldn't see it, but I was sweating bullets just in general. You're recording it all into a microphone. ah But we got some really great ah comments on it. One from Reddit said, your story with the Playgirl resonated with me. I remember seeing an ad in Playboy for one, and it drove me crazy.
Speaker: Lived rent-free in my head. yeah I think I even know the advertisement that you're talking about. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes. Another one here. Just finished listening and really enjoyed hearing your, Sam's, bisexual journey. As a fellow Gen Xer too, I was scared to death of HIV and AIDS in the 90s when I was stepping out into young adulthood. It is one of the things that kept me deep in the closet.
Speaker: Spent a lot of time cybering on AOL Instant Messenger as well. Yes. ah AOL instant messenger. ah ah And after that, it was Yahoo message message ah messaging that i used. Or if he got really fancy, it was ICQ or trillion.
Speaker: There you go. Wow. These words that I haven't heard in years. Yes, yes. ah from A Discord user just started and heard penetrator and couldn't help but think of Transformers.
Speaker: I mean, we we both are more than meets the eye, so... Very true. I just think of like Megatron turning into like one of those... like Because Megatron is a large gun, right? Or a cannon, I think, in the newer Transformers. And he just turned into one of those.
Speaker: Actually... Uh-oh. Uh-oh. What's that, Grayson? It would depend upon which series and iteration of the Transformers you were speaking of Yes. Yes. Because there're now there have been a few different Megatrons and a few different. There's there's the gun that was the original. ah There was a tank. There was a cannon on Beast Machines. He was a T-Rex. Beast Wars or Beast Machines? i Yeah, Beast Wars. Beast Wars. Sorry, actually, Beast Wars is the name of the series that you were referring to.
Speaker: yeah Yes, it is. i stand corrected. i just imagine Megatron turning into like one of those fuck machines that you see on the ah on certain subreddits that you may frequent. Uh, if you're into that kind of thing where people, you know, put attach a ah dildo to it and it, uh, does its thing.
Speaker: And so that would be a fun transformers porn parody if they ever, if they ever do one. but that's Fun aside, and i I know she has said that she doesn't want to listen to the show because doesn't want the gory details.
Speaker: So I know my wife won't hear, but so that that couple that we met up with, they had not the one that... like thrusts in and out but they had a toy that you stick a dildo on that's more like a a saddle or a stool oh like a sibian it was it a sibian that's like very popular i don't remember if it was i don't remember if it was name brand sibian or not okay But they they brought that out and she's like, no, I'm scared of that. That scares me.
Speaker: Well, when you get one of those, then you have to name it and, you know, like, i don't know. Yeah. Whole hassle. Yeah. pi i ah ah I was looking at it going like, I think that would scare me too. It it just it looked very, it looked very industrial. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. ah Oh, another comment from Reddit. Y'all need to be sponsored by Bader Bomb. I may have placed an order based on the recommendation. Great episode and great story. i saw myself in quite a bit of it. Thank you both.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you. So thank you all for the comments. You can reach out. ah Just check the show notes for our contact information. We're on social media. You can email podcast at bymanunfiltered.com.
Speaker: ah Send us your feedback if it's okay to make it to air. Just say okay to air if you're sharing your story with us. Or if you'd like to be a guest on the show, we would also... I'd love to hear from you as well. We'd love to talk to other people who have had different experiences or similar experiences to us in realizing their bisexual desires. So yeah, please reach out.
Speaker: Yes, please do. We'd love to hear from you. But now, do do we want to dive into, ah I'm not going to stop with the innuendo. Do we want to get to the meat of the episode? ah I think we shouldn't beat around the bush any longer.
Speaker: ah ah What are we talking about today? We are talking about telling your partner that you're by whether you are dating or you're married and you're just discovering that you may be bisexual. How do you share that information with your partner?
Speaker: And a quick recap here, we've sort of talked about this a little bit in the first two episodes of our first, I'm sorry, episode two and three, ah where we were each telling our story.
Speaker: It involved an element of this, of telling your partner. So Grayson, you did that in episode three. Uh, and then I sent an email to my girlfriend at the time, ah to tell her that I was bisexual two weeks into dating.
Speaker: Um, do we, do we want to do you want to recap your telling your partner story? Sure. Sure. um readers digest first. Ooh, I just dated myself. Uh, carbon dated myself. Uh,
Speaker: A Google AI summary of. Yes. The Google AI summary ah is that she came out to me as by I let her know about past experience with my college roommate she had kind of a mixed reaction. So I just cut it off there and let it sit.
Speaker: Um, can sit, kept coming close over the years until about a year and a half, little over that ago, when I finally, ah as we were updating a profile on a lifestyle site, said, hey, I would like to explore that side of myself again, and was pleasantly surprised with the effective non-reaction of, okay, that's fine by me.
Speaker: Yeah. That's the ideal reaction. That's what you Yeah. yeah Yeah. And then for me, I was dating a woman and later became my wife. And we were two weeks into dating and I sent her an email.
Speaker: And my finger hovered over the send button for at least... 15, 20 minutes. And I kept revising and revising what i was writing. And I think I should read it. What do you do what do you think? Should I read the email?
Speaker: if If you are good with reading the email, read the email. I'm going to sit back and listen because I have not heard the email. You have not heard the email.
Speaker: So it was kind of, this was sort of before, I guess, we were before people were texting so much. Like nowadays, this would probably have been a text. Maybe.
Speaker: But ah it it was an email back in 2007? Yeah.
Speaker: seven yeah so ah Because she didn't have an iPhone at that time. I had an iPhone. In 2007, to send it as a text, you would be like 555, zero. and all yeah The t nine right. i Actually, I don't think I could have sent this long a text back in 2007. That was probably part of the issue. It would have to have been multiple messages, but and I didn't want to do that exactly, but...
Speaker: All right, so we had an email thread and it was kind of bantery going back and forth. So there was a little bit of stuff ah before this, but here we go. There's one subject that I want to bring up because I like you a lot. And I think it's important to be as open and honest about things as possible, especially if we decide to keep seeing each other, which, by the way, I'd really like if that wasn't clear before.
Speaker: Trust is an important thing for me, and though this is an awkward subject to bring up, this particular thing is best mentioned now in case it is a deal-breaker. i am bisexual.
Speaker: I'm attracted to both women and men. On the Kinsey scale of sexuality, I'm a 2, which means predominantly heterosexual but more than incidentally homosexual.
Speaker: I don't wear it on my sleeve or advertise that detail, but close friends and family are aware of it, and it's part of myself that anyone I become involved with should know.
Speaker: I've been in three straight relationships and one not. I don't have and have never had any STDs, though I don't mind getting tested for peace of mind.
Speaker: I'm a monogamous person, not into cheating. Who I'm with is who I'm with, period. That's kind of a lot to throw out there, but I felt it was important to get it into the open as soon as possible in case you are not comfortable with that.
Speaker: It's not typically something one just blurts out in conversation, though, so I wasn't sure how to best go about it. If you have any questions, I'm an open book.
Speaker: You can ask me anything. If the invitation for Saturday is still on, great. If not, I'll understand. if you think If you want to think about it and hold off on Saturday for now, that's fine too.
Speaker: Let me know and we'll go from there. That was the email. That's a very nice, succinct way of putting everything.
Speaker: ah no i'm I'm sitting here thinking if if I had written something like that, I probably would have rambled on at some points trying to throw in too much reassurance and too much explanation.
Speaker: Yeah, I think I went or I made so many drafts of that email too. i had the compose window up for so long, just kind of reading it over and over and over again.
Speaker: like how If I received this email, how would I react to it? And I already know that straight women have a stereotypical view of bisexual men in that they don't want anything to do with them.
Speaker: that was I had had an encounter on Match.com with a woman when I did for a short time, for a few days, of put that I was bi in my profile.
Speaker: And this one woman really ah let me have it over messaging and telling me that I was dishonest, that I was really gay, and how dare be on this site and everything. So that really soured me Match.com.
Speaker: putting it on my profile at that time. But I also really wanted to disclose the information and make sure that anybody that I was going to have a serious relationship with knew that part of me existed and that this was part of my past.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, I mean, that that makes absolute total sense. And she was just un unreasonable about it all. right I have a big issue when you you're just being straightforward and someone tells you that you're doing it wrong.
Speaker: Yeah. Or that this is the way you are. I know more than you do about you from not knowing anything about you except for your match.com profile and your picture. Right.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. But so I sent this email at probably 1030 at night and I and i Hadn't gotten a reply in the morning. And i did get a reply in like the late morning that it wasn't it wasn't a big deal and that we were still on for Saturday. so Perfect, perfect, ah perfect situation to get that information out there. And also to answer any questions. I think at that time i had, you know, shared sort of the first crushes that I had with men back when I was younger and that i ah had been to these jack-off clubs earlier and had a relationship and had met a man. Um,
Speaker: um a few years prior. So yeah it all kind of worked out and that was You know, I was at that time very into monogamy and yeah, was monogamously married. As I said in my story, monogamously married for 15 years. So there you go.
Speaker: And if I can just put a guess out there. Sure. Before that message came through, you were probably thinking, well, it was a deal breaker and that was it because you hadn't gotten an answer yet.
Speaker: Exactly. Like, yeah sure surely there has been plenty of time to either shoot off a, you horrible, disgusting freak, stay away from me.
Speaker: yeah Or a, no, everything is cool. Everything is copacetic. What are we doing Saturday? Yeah. And it hadn't come yet. So like, oh, okay. You're imagining the worst. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I'm not even sure, as you were mentioning, like ghosting last episode. I'm not sure ghosting was a thing at that time. Certainly, like text messages showing that it's been delivered and read was not a thing.
Speaker: Like read receipts on emails were not a thing. So, yeah, I guy couldn't even know. was a mystery. Yeah. like did did Did it even go through? did i did I enter the email address wrong? That's right.
Speaker: Some dude named Larry in Poughkeepsie got my email.
Speaker: How interesting that would have been. What does Larry think of this? i don't know. i don't know. But so that's kind of the tee up to our our conversation of telling your partner that both of us have done that in a dating situation in my case and in a marriage ah situation in your case.
Speaker: So I think we can break this down into two different conversations that this might be for someone who's dating or is married I think we can.
Speaker: The first one is I'm bi. And the second one, if ah if if if you get through that first one. applicable. If applicable. And yeah, if applicable as well is I want to act on it. And in my case, I was not at all in...
Speaker: tending or, and I didn't, uh, act on it throughout my marriage or dating life. Uh, so yeah, no cheating or acting on it in any way.
Speaker: And so, yeah, these are two conversations that you may have with your significant other, whether that's dating a relationship or married. Yeah. And ah both of them have come with their own sets of internal baggage and internal fears and concerns.
Speaker: First, you have to decide, do I even want to go down this road? Do I want to have this conversation? Do I want to reveal... the first part of the conversation to my partner, that this is a part of me. These are desires that I have.
Speaker: Maybe it's experiences that you've already had in your past as well. And what does that mean for this relationship? Yeah. um you know I know that I can say part of why I never brought it up Early on is that, like I was saying last episode in my story, A, I hadn't adopted the term for myself.
Speaker: And since I had no intention once entering into the relationship, I had no intention of...
Speaker: Right. acting on it what was the point right it is certainly easier to be in un assumed straight relationship and not even have to deal with that side of things Yeah.
Speaker: Or maybe you're the type of person that has those desires and deals with them on a fantasy only basis where maybe it's something you experience when you browse porn or you check subreddits or you're in a chat group of some kind that you explore those desires with, but don't feel the need to share that information with a partner if that's not seen as cheating or being unfaithful.
Speaker: Right. Because you're just, you're, you're inside your head at that point now and in a couple of different ways. You know, you're, you're having the experiences inside your head, but you might also be inside your head overthinking everything.
Speaker: That's for sure. Yeah. I remember overthinking every detail of that email. I'm sure in your head, all those times that you came right to the precipice of sharing the information with your wife and backed away that all of those, it's in your head, right? Is this the right time?
Speaker: How is this information going to be received? Yeah. Well, it for fun, I'm a storyteller. So when writing a story, you're like, okay, plot point A happens, which can then lead to consequence B, C, D, E, or F.
Speaker: And so once I started saying, okay, maybe I should put plot point a into action and tell her what's going to happen. Okay, well, here's here's outcome B. Okay, that one's pretty good. Oh, and here's outcome F. Oh, oh no, the world is on fire. Everything is on fire, the whole thing.
Speaker: Right. Right. And for anyone who is considering having this talk, you really have to consider, is there a benefit to telling your partner aside from the authenticity and sharing your you know deepest vulnerabilities with ah your your most important person?
Speaker: And is there the possibility that they could react badly to it and blow up everything? You know, this type of information, it depends on a lot of things for the other on the other person's end that you may not know or that may be unknowable. So it could end badly.
Speaker: And i think part of is... is your partner's opinion of LGBT ah people in general. And that's not a that's not a complete sign because I think there are people who have partners that are very LGBT friendly that when they find out that their partner is bi,
Speaker: could have a completely different opinion of it, right? They could be an ally, and then when it's in their house or ah affecting them, they have a completely different opinion about it.
Speaker: Yeah, i I mentioned something along those lines last episode. yeah you know it's what It's one thing to say, oh some men like having sex with other men.
Speaker: Oh, wait, my husband, my boyfriend, my significant other, he likes that? No, i should i should be the focus.
Speaker: I can't deal with that being that close to home. Right, right. Yeah, and that's not even talking about the I want to act on it end of this. i think...
Speaker: It depends on what the person is going to extrapolate out of this information. And it may be worst case scenario. But their opinion of LGBT people, but also the sort of religious or conservative upbringing ah may also impact this. And you may have a little bit of a sign in that respect. Yeah.
Speaker: So you may want to keep it to yourself. there is yeah There are benefits to keeping it to yourself, right? Right. I mean, you you could have a partner who does have some homophobia or biphobia or just other fundamental philosophical differences. ah You know, religion. ah But...
Speaker: Not saying that from, as I keep saying, not saying that from the buckle of the Bible belt, um but there is a lot of foundational prejudice out there, you know, one consistent through line that has been in all of our talk of of our history and both of our talk of our histories is that in our formative years, when we were first discovering that side of ourselves, that it it wasn't really a thing. Mm-hmm. you were either straight or you were gay. And if you were gay, that was bad.
Speaker: yeah And all of that came from stereotypes. All of that came from a place of intolerance and bigotry. And unfortunately, although there have been great strides made in the decades since, we've still got a long way to go.
Speaker: Yeah. You know, part of that biphobia is also fear of disease as well, STIs. And if your partner grew up during the HIV AIDS crisis,
Speaker: That's just amplified, right? Because i think around the 80s and ninety s men who had sex with men but were married to women were vilified.
Speaker: And so that could be seen as if you're bisexual, you're going to bring in all of this bad stuff, right? And all of this fear that we grew up with.
Speaker: is now right in front of you, right? And that's a really tough thing to contend with. If you have been a straight woman during that time, like that that all those fears right there are now in front of you.
Speaker: And not even talking about your partner, this person that you love or have loved, ah you know, bringing bringing this up. But also, there's the idea that depending on when you are disclosing this information and how long you've been in a relationship, that it's that you've been deceptive somehow.
Speaker: That you've been withholding this information from someone. your partner They didn't have all the information when they started the relationship with you, and now they have to rethink, right? So it's also a possibility.
Speaker: Yep, that that was absolutely one of my big concerns every time that I was stepping up to that that line and then...
Speaker: stepping back. ah you know Why is this just coming up now? Why is this just coming up after five years, after 10, after 15, after 20? Why is it coming up now?
Speaker: And where was it before? why Why was your mouth shut before? Right. And that's likely to be a question that you'll get if you have the yeah the conversation. Yeah, you know, i I am pleasantly, we've said a few times before, my wife is awesome. She is.
Speaker: That has never been a question that she asked. i mean, granted, I did give her that, let's call it a sneak preview. Mm-hmm. earlier on when I said, hey, this happened back in college, but... Yeah, the distant past.
Speaker: Yeah, but still, you know i she would have had every right to ask that, you know what the fuck has been going on all this time that you haven't said anything current.
Speaker: you know Right. She would have had every right, and she didn't, and so just... put another put another star on the She's Awesome banner. Absolutely.
Speaker: So we know this is a hard discussion, a very difficult discussion. I should stop saying hard. ah Part of it. No, you shouldn't.
Speaker: Never stop. I told you I'm not going to give up the innuendo. Right. ah My suggestion is to, you know, kind of as I did with that email that I wrote,
Speaker: I would suggest writing down or at least outlining all of the things that you want to say, because in the moment, depending on the reaction, you may forget all of the things that you're going to say. So like writing it out, reading it back to yourself,
Speaker: Rereading it, changing how you're framing things, i think is important. And just so you have all the information and then like really think about how it's going to be received by the other person. What questions may they ask once they hear it?
Speaker: And are you ready to answer those questions? And maybe you aren't ready to answer those questions because, As all of us are sort of on this by journey, you may depending on what point you're at, you may not know the answer to all of these questions. Yeah, I about to say, you might not have the answer. Right.
Speaker: And you know what? If the question comes up and you don't have the answer, just like I always say in any situation, I'm I don't know is a valid answer.
Speaker: h It's especially valid if you follow up. I don't know with some variation on, but let's find out. Yes. Yes. Let's explore what the answer to that question might be because I don't have the answer for myself, so I can't give it to you. So let's find out.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. The other thing i want to mention is when you're preparing for this, not only writing it down, but if you have an individual therapist, I would suggest talking it through with a third party, like a therapist.
Speaker: And maybe you have a sex positive, LGBT friendly therapist. If you don't, maybe it's time to switch therapists. Right. Find one.
Speaker: ah Cause you never know how they're, I mean, you kind of try it out on them on on a therapist, like see what their reaction is. And yeah, if their reaction is bad, it's very easy to switch therapists. It's easier to switch therapists than switch girlfriends or wives ah for sure.
Speaker: But yeah, you may want to work with an individual therapist on it. If you are comfortable with it and if ah your bisexual desires are accompanied by something like a dead bedroom situation or where sex in your relationship has changed over the years, you may want to ah rope in a and not literally, like hog tie or like rope in a couples therapist. Although some are into that.
Speaker: Some might be into that. You could, uh, have a ah couples therapist, uh, explore this as well. And, you know, not only the exploration part, but if it is a dead bedroom,
Speaker: situation where sex in your main relationship has stopped, that may be something you want to work on separately anyway. ah So that could be a ah good way of approaching it.
Speaker: Also, if you have kids and or a close family, you may want to consider what this information is going to do to that situation.
Speaker: Because potentially, depending on how the information is received by your primary partner, it could blow the rest of that stuff up. Could be a yeah relationship ending event.
Speaker: ah And also, yeah, how are you going to broach the subject with your kids? If if you feel that's necessary, if they're old enough to crock what is going on.
Speaker: Oh, you just used crock. I used the word crock. Not in the Elon Musk AI sense of the word. But in the iGrox Spock sense of the word.
Speaker: Yes. ah but even So even if you cannot share the information, if you cannot have the conversation, i would still encourage you to find a way.
Speaker: if at all possible, to be true to yourself or to be ah an ally to others. And because there are other men that are dealing with the same situation, there are other members of the LGBT community. It could be later on your kids coming out to you and ah you have to think about, yeah, what your reaction there would be as well. Yeah.
Speaker: For some reason, my threads algorithm a couple of months ago, and it it was beautiful to see. For some reason, though, my algorithm was throwing up a bunch of stories of people saying, my son or daughter, you whichever, came to me and you know looked very concerned and said, well, i am I'm bi. And I said, you know what? That's great because I am too.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a perfect opportunity to also come out to your ah your kids kids. Actually, my it's funny, my daughter came out to my ex and I as bi.
Speaker: And then after that, I came out to her as bi.
Speaker: And did she accuse you of being a copycat? No. I did not get that, ah luckily. Dad, get your own bit.
Speaker: But we did end up putting a bi-flag sticker on my car after that point, and just as a a fun bonding moment. So that was really good.
Speaker: Oh, my, so many stickers that I have everywhere in the past year and a half.
Speaker: I need more. i need more stickers. I only have the one BiFlag sticker on my car currently. So my my laptop has BiFi connected sticker.
Speaker: yeah um Because I couldn't choose between it and this one, my network drive enclosure has a BiFi hotspot sticker on Yeah.
Speaker: That's great. My dice box for role-playing games has a bi-flag colored D20 that says, I roll both ways. ah um Yeah, let's see. I think there's another one somewhere. I just don't remember what it is now.
Speaker: Very nice. There's another one somewhere. But yeah, i I went on a little tear on Redbubble. It's worth it. It's worth it. After C after you have the conversation, if it is received, well, go on that spree, just like Grayson did, just like I did.
Speaker: It's worth it. It's worth it. So the conversation when to have the conversation, i would not do it right after sex or during sex. Like that's just not, you know, that's not, that's not the time probably.
Speaker: to do it. Nope. Probably a little bit too heated in that moment. um Find a, find a low, so lower stress time. I don't know when, when you had the conversation, Grayson.
Speaker: Well, so the conversation when my wife came out to me was over dinner at a chain casual dining restaurant.
Speaker: Excellent. That's perfect. And, Yeah. Was there any preamble to it? Were you talking about sex at the time or was it just a lead right up into it? If I remember right, this was around the time that this was either around or right before we were going to a local strip club monthly. Hmm.
Speaker: And but you know at dinner, she's like she who started telling me, well, you know, I kind of have always wanted to know what it would what it's like to be with another woman they're going back to to high school. And I probably could have handled it slightly better because I went with a half joke.
Speaker: Which was, you know, i I was sincerely saying, okay, that's not a problem. And then, you know, took the step further, which fortunately she knows me. So she knows the spirit it was intended.
Speaker: i was like, and, you know, hey, you we could, you if you would actually like to, i will be glad to help you on that journey. As long as I at least get to watch.
Speaker: ah And so, you like i said, knowing me, she knew the spirit that that was intended. so you know, if it were someone else, it probably would have been the proverbial lead balloon. Yeah, I could see that being a lead balloon in in some some relationships. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: But, you know, we we have a good a good back and forth, a good banter, and always have. Since, sir since we first got together, we've always had that little, you back and forth. You, if we, we could easily be mistaken for a sitcom or a bantery, will they, won't they light romantic drama without the, will they, won't they, because we did. but Because you already did.
Speaker: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes. Well, with pick a low stress time. Maybe it's a dinner at a casual restaurant or watching a television show completely unrelated to sex.
Speaker: Or or ah if you do relationship check-ins, it might be a good time. Or if you're taught if you find an opportunity to talk about mutual turn-ons,
Speaker: That may also be good. But i would also say you should have some resources at the ready in case there are questions. Because there will are undoubtedly be questions.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. And just jumping back for half a second, I'm going to adapt something that I say to someone. yeah Frequently, I'm in online spaces where someone asks, how do I bring up the idea of opening the relationship to my partner? And the same advice Yeah.
Speaker: one of do it in a mundane setting yeah don't do it while both of you have hormones flowing Do it when you're thinking clearly and you're not distracted by anything to do with sex, like a TGI Fridays.
Speaker: you Bring it up when you are having a genuine conversation that isn't influenced by the hormones flowing.
Speaker: Totally. And how do you frame this conversation? i think there are some important aspects of the conversation that this, you know, you may want to include, such as communicating how much your partner means to you and how much sharing this with them means. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes, that is perhaps number one. Yeah, because getting this information, the almost immediate thought afterwards is they don't love me anymore or they want something other than me. And you have to be sympathetic to that response.
Speaker: Yes, I am telling you this because you are my number one priority. h And this is a part of me that I haven't told you about before.
Speaker: or Or that I've just discovered about myself. that i've Exactly. Just discovered about myself very recently, or this has developed. And the I've noticed this in myself, whether it was, you know, a year ago, two years ago, or 20 years ago. Like you're sharing this information with them so that they know you on a more deep level.
Speaker: Yeah, because you know especially if it is something new, or it may not even be something new, but this still could be true. You like you are the first person I'm telling because you are my number one. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I haven't told anyone else this before. You are the one that I know I can trust. You are the one that I know that I can tell anything to.
Speaker: So you are the person that I am telling this to. Yeah. And as an addendum to that, I would say, don't immediately come out to others right away.
Speaker: Like, don't even think about that. Because undoubtedly, this information is going to need to be processed by your partner.
Speaker: They may have questions. You need to work through things together. And, you know, revealing this to the world right after, i think, could lead to a lot of resentment and a lot of ah feelings of abandonment. Like, you have to be...
Speaker: cautious and concerned with your partner's emotions and their right reception of this news, not broadcasting it to the rest of the world right after. Right. And I mentioned this in our last episode in my story.
Speaker: While I didn't come out to anyone else shortly after, i did you know start the things like you the bracelets and And things like that. Just kind of a subtle outward sign. And so she's the one who, because I was wearing it while we were out with a pan friend of ours, was like, did you notice Right.
Speaker: Yeah. So, you know, so that let me know that she was comfortable with me, um you know, that she was comfortable with me coming out and being open to others about it. So I let her steer that ship.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And after you have this talk or the initial conversation, there are going to be follow-up conversations that you want to have, including checking in on their comfort level about even telling anyone else.
Speaker: And because this is your relationship, your business, you have to be careful to preserve that bond between you and your partner, your primary and partner.
Speaker: Yep, absolutely. And another thing i would be sure to stress is that it does not diminish the relationship that you have.
Speaker: Absolutely. I mean, unless you're planning on divorcing and just unless unless you want to blow up your marriage, which I, you know, it depends what stage you're at potentially, but I don't think most people want to do that.
Speaker: So Yeah, if if letting them know is your preamble to, oh, and I'm out, then you're kind of a trash human. That's right. Don't be a trash human in this conversation, please, whatever you do.
Speaker: Do not be that person. i mean, you could have, if that was your whole idea, you could have just spared their feelings entirely and just done the whole divorce thing and then not even involved them in the rest.
Speaker: So if you're involving them in the rest of things, please be mindful of their feelings for sure. Very much. And sort of asking the question that you may have, listener, at this point in the discussion, can you still be true to your bi-self while in a hetero- assumed monogamous relationship?
Speaker: I believe you can. I believe you absolutely i do, too. I do, too. I mean... my my timing in coming out happened to coincide with an adjustment to our our exploration of being non-monogamous, but that's not necessarily... if I'm not even going to include necessarily in there. That's not going to be the norm.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. And I would say, you know, I... came out to my girlfriend at the time, later wife, and it didn't impact that relationship at all.
Speaker: I was still in a hetero seeming monogamous relationship. I did make the choice to not advertise that i was by outwardly, you know, come out to anybody else. But in part, that was because I'm, wasn't interested in exploring with anybody else. I wasn't interested in fulfilling any of those desires outside of privately, ah consuming porn or, you know, jerking off in the shower, that kind of thing.
Speaker: yeah. Yes, you can totally be bi in a hetero relationship. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, here's here's a really simple way of putting that is that say that you've had a thing for blondes the entire time that you've known your partner.
Speaker: And then you come out say, you know what? Redheads are really hot too. It's the same kind of thing if you're going to stay monogamous.
Speaker: That's right. I'm oversimplifying a lot, I know, but it's the same but it's the same basic concept in that you know you're you're a blonde and I have a a thing for blondes, but that redhead over there looks great too.
Speaker: I'm not going up to that redhead and trying to get anything started with that redhead. I'm just saying, hey, don't. that That is a palette that I can enjoy as well, but I'm not going to because we are monogamous.
Speaker: Yeah. And there is the stereotype, of course, that bi men are going to cheat or that bi is really just a step on the way to gay. And that is not true for every man. That's true for some men, of course.
Speaker: But... I would say that even if you are in a heterosexual relationship, if youve even if you're assumed straight or even in straight relationships, your eye can wander and really have no, as a bi man, you're not at greater risk of cheating than a straight man would be at risk of cheating and finding another woman, right? Like...
Speaker: Exactly. And that's where my crude analogy comes in, you know? Exactly. Just because, just because, you know, Karen Gillan is standing over there doesn't mean that I'm going to do anything with Karen Gillan.
Speaker: Unless you have a hall pass. Oh, this is true. Wait, wasn't there, there was a whole episode of Friends about that. That's a different situation. Except it Isabella Rossellini. yeah Yes, yes.
Speaker: So this conversation that we're talking about is going to be different for everyone. Like nobody's situation is exactly the same. Your partner's not going to react exactly the same way.
Speaker: you can find on the internet examples of people who have had this conversation and it's gone really well. You can find examples of people who've had these conversations and it's gone spectacularly bad and that it's been a disaster. so i And, of course, we are not experts at all. We are not experts. We are not doctors. We don't we don't play doctors on TV, although no I have been known to play doctor before. But...
Speaker: Only in fantasies. Yes. Yes. But um yeah, so it's kind of up to everybody on an individual level, which I think if you're listening to this, that kind of is like, oh shit, like that puts a lot of pressure.
Speaker: That's a lot of pressure on, on this situation. And yes, it it is only, you know, your situation, only, you know, your partner, And whether this conversation is going to be something that will be successful or a epic disaster.
Speaker: And only you know yourself and know that if it is something that you feel you have to keep to yourself, if that is going to cause you any kind of emotional or mental harm or distress. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. In which case you should definitely find a therapist and talk through things with a neutral third party. Like I think ah mental health is so important. i would just suggest that to anyone. Like i Started therapy probably about five years ago now, and it has helped me immensely work through a number of things, not the least of which was my marriage and how that whole thing ended, which was not at all related to my bisexuality, by the way.
Speaker: um important note there because I'm sure some people may have wondered but so I think we can touch on the second question which might not take too much time but that second question or statement being I want to act on it mm-hmm First of all, do you? Yeah. you know if If you've made that decision to tell your partner, that is going to be their question.
Speaker: Yeah. that i can I may not be an expert, but I can predict with, I would say, 98% certainty because I'm always going to allow that slim margin of error.
Speaker: That will be their next question. So does that mean that you want to do something with another man? And you're the one that can answer that question. Yeah. Do you want to And in some ways that could be a tougher part of the conversation because it's one thing to say, not only do I like blondes, but I like redheads, but it's like, I want to go screw the redhead. Yeah.
Speaker: There's this redhead that I really want to fuck. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I, I'm joking by you know, using the hair color analogy, but that is the logical next question.
Speaker: Yeah. Because otherwise, if nothing is going to change in our status quo, why are you telling me? Yeah.
Speaker: you know, if if that is something that you want to do, that is a whole different conversation because is your partner on board with that or not?
Speaker: If they are, do they want to be involved or not? If they're not on board, is that a deal breaker for either of you?
Speaker: Does the mere fact that you want to explore that avenue deal breaker that they feel they can no longer trust you? Yeah. there there's a whole lot of that There can be a whole lot of tough questions and consequences coming out of that choice to say, i want to explore this side of myself.
Speaker: I want to actively explore it. with other humans. Yeah. I don't think that's part, a part of the conversation that you can have quickly either. I think that is an evolving conversation that may take weeks, may take months and to just expect that.
Speaker: Not a hey, I've got a redhead down the street that I've already been talking to. and She's waiting for me right now. Exactly. like That doesn't seem realistic, right?
Speaker: Yeah. You're probably going to be working through this together soon. For a little while before any decisions are made. And I don't think really you should go into that talk already knowing that you're going to explore no matter what the answer is.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, i am I consider myself incredibly fortunate, as I keep saying. i consider myself incredibly fortunate that we were already exploring avenues of...
Speaker: non-monogamy when I came out. And over the course of that first year of being out, looked at how exploring looks for my half of our pairing.
Speaker: yeah And ultimately ending up in getting the okay to you you go off and you you have that fun.
Speaker: you're coming home to me and that's good. And as long as you are being safe and careful, we are good. Yeah. And who knows the conversation may lead. You may find out that your partner is a cuck queen and that she's into it. Who knows?
Speaker: Who knows? ah One thing I want to bring forward in this conversation, part of the conversation is the resource ah for this episode, which is a book by Dr. Joe Court. That's called, is my husband gay straight or by a guide for women concerned about their men. It's available on Amazon and also as an audio book on audible.
Speaker: ah This is a ah great resource. I think just, I think it answers a lot of questions. It uses stories of, this exact thing, telling your partner and the different outcomes that have happened with several different men, several different relationships. So I highly recommend that resource. It'll be linked in the show notes.
Speaker: I would suggest even listening to or reading that book first before even having this discussion. And ah it may answer a lot of questions for your for you in the process. And it's a perfect thing also to then hand to your partner as well. And it may answer a lot of questions for them.
Speaker: sounds good like great resource yes all right if we're done with that big topic which was a really tough one that that was a big one yeah we won't say hard again uh let's talk about no instead we said big and we instead we said turgid all right uh we'll talk about a mini topic ah before we end here, and I wanted to do bringing up fantasies with your partner, perhaps something you want to do in the bedroom. This is like a light version of the hey, I'm by conversation.
Speaker: And this also... ah is a conversation you're not going to want to have right when you're having sex or about to have sex or right after.
Speaker: And i think there are a lot of fun resources on the internet in the form of quizzes that you can take with your partner to find out what their fantasies are.
Speaker: I will point to the very popular BDSMtest.org, which a lot of people use on FetLife, for instance, to kind of ah categorize their desires.
Speaker: There's also a website called CarnalCalibration.com, which makes... it a little easier to do like custom quizzes with your partner so if there's a particular act that you're interested in you can include questions about that or not include questions about other things that you're not interested in so I thought that was a pretty interesting way of of doing it and like bringing those things up to your partner quizzes like that can be fun they are fun
Speaker: I enjoy those. I'm very vanilla on the BDSM quiz. At least for now. At least for now. I'm doing some exploring in that area. but Which makes me kind of want to take it just to see how hard it laughs at me.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. On mine, it's just like 0% for all the really kinky things. It's like, yeah, no interest in in some of that stuff. But who knows? That's totally not my speed. I mean, that kind of thing, too, it develops over time. like i I personally believe, and I think the science backs this out up, is that Uh, sexuality is fluid, right. And can change over time and your desires and things that you're interested in can change over time. You know, maybe you've never been kinky or into BDSM and you find a partner who is, and then you learn to adapt with that. And then all of a sudden it's also your thing.
Speaker: That can happen too. yeah know with Without going into gory details, sweet there's something that you know we used to indulge in fairly frequently, stopped for a while. And when we were ah meeting up with um that couple that that we played with a couple of times, at one point the subject came up and my wife was like,
Speaker: Yeah, no, I don't like that. you You used to love it. You used to like it. ah i Either you were you put on a very convincing show or your tastes have just changed.
Speaker: And that is valid. That tastes can yeah definitely change in this whole thing. I think that's a good place to wrap unless you have more ah you want to say about nope sharing fantasies. Definitely do it at a TGI Friday's or a Chili's yeah or a Denny's.
Speaker: Whataburger is fine too. If you do it it at a Chili's, yeah um if you are a good-hearted person, you will be too busy causing a scene demanding they bring back the original chicken crispers.
Speaker: ah There you go. I think we should tease our next episode. This will be a good one, I think. like This was a very serious main topic.
Speaker: Next episode will be will be really interesting. What's our next topic, Grayson? Next episode, we're going to be talking about finding a guy. using apps, how to approach exploring by desires in real life.
Speaker: Unfortunately, there is no just supermarket or big box store where you can walk in and you select your guy to fool around with. It sure would make life convenient.
Speaker: up And, you know, the online ads are always deceptive. Don't don't go to to Timu for a guy. ah And don't act like the apps are Timu for guys. Like, ah and we'll we'll talk about our our experience with apps, I'm sure. But it's not as easy. i mean, it's not quite as easy find a guy ah as it is to just order something off of Amazon or Timu. Yeah.
Speaker: Which, oddly enough, guys being guys, you would think it would be. But, you know. Well, partially, there is some of it that's easier. But finding a a decent guy, ah someone that you would actually want to play with, is a little bit more difficult.
Speaker: Yes. Yes, that's what I was getting at. But yes well we'll get into it in more detail next time. Yes, and you'll hear our experiences using all of those fun apps as well. Yes, and I'll i'll probably cuss about a few of them. Yes, indeed.
Speaker: And if people want to share their thoughts with us about the show, where can they do that, Grayson? If something that we talked about hit home, if you've got your own story, question, or experience you'd like to share, send it our way at podcast at buymenunfiltered.com.
Speaker: Want us to read it on the show? Just put OK for air somewhere in your message. And of course, you can find us at Buy Men Unfiltered on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X Twitter ah or BuyMenUnfiltered.com on Blue Sky. Come on by. Say hi Tell us what you think. Keep the conversation going.
Speaker: um Just drop us a line. Yeah, we love hearing what you think about the shows and we'd love to hear about your situation and what your experience has been if you want to be a guest on the show. yeah just mention that to us as well.
Speaker: And yeah, we we just really want to hear about everyone's experience with bisexuality and we're all on this journey together really like neither of us are experts on this we are on our own journeys can it's a continuing journey as well and we want to share that with you through this show we We do. And i I just had the most random thought or line pop into my head. i
Speaker: You said continuing journey and I flashed to the U2 concert movie Rattle and Hum where Larry Mullen Jr. keeps referring to the movie as it's a musical journey.
Speaker: That's what this is I hear the baseline of our theme. journey? it's at The baseline of our theme music is playing this as we talk about this. So it's kind of a musical journey.
Speaker: Okay, well then it is it It's a musical journey. ah We will see everybody next week. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening, everybody.
