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Episode 060 Part 03 - Frankenstein
0 Playsin 36 minutes
I'm joined by Ed from the Scruffies where we discuss some of this years Oscar Best Picture films. Instead of a single episode, the discussions have been broken up into individual episodes to make them easier to consume without spoiling movies you want to watch.
We look forward to hearing what you think about these movies so make sure to send your feedback to feedback@justshillin.com
Check out the new merch store over at shop.justshillin.com!!
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Transcript
Choosing the Next Movie: Frankenstein by Guillermo del Toro
00:00:00
Speaker
So the next one, the next movie is... Which one do i want to do? I'm trying to think. I'll let you pick the next one. We'll do back and forth. We'll do Frankenstein.
00:00:13
Speaker
Alrighty. So Frankenstein is another one that I'm sure people heard a lot about. It's a Guillermo del Toro directing... He's done Pan's Labyrinth, Hellboy, Shape of Water.
00:00:24
Speaker
ah The movie has freaking ridiculously stacked cast. Oscar Isaac, Jacob Elordi, Christoph Waltz, and Mia Goth, among others. um And no no priority there.
00:00:38
Speaker
It's... it's it's a franken It's a Frankenstein story. It's a little bit closer the book than the original stuff, or the the older the the older
Understanding Frankenstein: A Personal Admission
00:00:49
Speaker
movies. but what did you i want i want to hear your quick, your your elevator response first before get on. I got to preface this with, I didn't know much about...
00:01:05
Speaker
the lore of Frankenstein to begin with because it never interested me. Just from what I heard on the outs, I never, I've never seen, I've never seen a Frankenstein movie.
00:01:20
Speaker
I'm going to be honest. Never seen one. I'm sorry. There's been, i don't even know how many. have a feeling you're among friends.
Acting Highlights: Christoph Waltz and Oscar Isaac
00:01:27
Speaker
Like it's, those are a pretty hit or miss. I, I,
00:01:32
Speaker
I don't know. I never... The ads or whatever I saw about it never intrigued me. um So i kind of went into this not knowing anything and slightly not knowing anything.
00:01:48
Speaker
And then i kind of like looked up a little of the story beforehand just so I could relate. Because I knew that's what most people were going to do. They were going to like, oh yeah, that's like that's like the story.
00:02:02
Speaker
you know like The monster isn't Frankenstein. It's Victor, essentially. um But overall, acting, directing, awesome.
00:02:16
Speaker
um Oscar's so good.
00:02:23
Speaker
i don't know. And and Christoph Waltz, ah he needs to be in Star Wars, man.
00:02:32
Speaker
youpi Can you imagine him being a good guy in Star Wars? Just like, can he play a good guy? i thought that he's a bad guy in this movie. Can he play can you play like a good... Could he play a good... see this That's a good question. Could he play a good guy anywhere?
00:02:49
Speaker
I mean, he kind of did in this movie. We don't want to spoil anything. it's like He was kind of a good guy. like I think the closest to good guy he's ever been is Jango. like True. yeahs Yeah.
00:03:02
Speaker
If you can call it that, kind of. If we're being black and white. I feel like if he was a good guy in Star Wars, he'd have to be someone quirky. He'd be an alien. but like just like ah An alien? Or like are like a weird senator or something. You know what I'm saying?
00:03:20
Speaker
yeah That's fair. Um... Yeah, I wrote, i'm not I wasn't huge on the story, but it had great acting. um And then I wrote Lars Mikkelsen in exclamation point.
00:03:35
Speaker
Awesome. As always.
Critiquing the Story: Narrative Depth and Themes
00:03:38
Speaker
Always. alwaysron It's like not a minor role, but like really made you remember that character in that role. like Like a little sub story within the story. It was nice for him.
00:03:52
Speaker
Um, my quick, my quick thought was, um, and okay. So I'll preface this cause I'm sure we got a lot of hardcore Frankenstein. This movie fans listening.
00:04:05
Speaker
I, once again, I enjoyed all these movies. I'm probably going to sound like I'm the most critical of this is probably one ones I'm sound like I'm the most critical of cause I have a lot of thoughts on it, but I still really enjoyed it. Let me preface with that. Um, this, but this one was beautiful, but left me wanting more immersive,
00:04:23
Speaker
but it can feel shallow or repetitive at times. I think in terms of like the story and motivations, that was its problem. Yeah. It felt like, I think and what's crazy is like, this is probably one that I've heard the most people talking about too, where I feel like I am very separated from so what other people feel.
00:04:45
Speaker
Like I've, I've heard people talk like, Most people probably got get the general idea of a Frankenstein story, like the arc of some of it. I think it feels like there was it was a longer movie than they kind of cut out some stuff that I think would have been critical to understanding the behaviors of characters.
00:05:03
Speaker
um Like, I know there's people who are like, oh, you know, it's about generational trauma and Oscar Isaac's like arc into becoming a villain.
00:05:16
Speaker
Like being a bad a bad guy. It's like, i don't know what movie you guys watched, but Oscar Isaac was always the villain to me. Like he he never he never had an intention of being good. he From the moment he was a child, like like he's like, fuck you. No, thank you. I'm going to be better than you.
00:05:41
Speaker
My asshole path is like it's set in stone. But like... And so he was just an ass the whole way through. And I think that's kind of what made...
00:05:53
Speaker
Something's Not Land's perfect. I am being very critical. I just wanted i wanted more. I love Guillermo's work. I love Pan's Labyrinth and Hellboy. Shape of Water can... and sit on a shelf. like It's beautiful. it's in It's a beautiful movie, but there's times where it just felt like it leaned too heavily on the like, do you see this set?
00:06:12
Speaker
Do you see this water tower? Look how gorgeous this is. I think they knew it too. I think the story, it's all established already, right?
00:06:25
Speaker
like I think it hindered them in creativity. um So they had to do it with sets and stuff, like you're saying. But that can only go so far. And yeah, I think it's like if Jacob Elordi hadn't done such an um and fucking incredible job at being Frankenstein's
Exploring Themes: Humanity, AI, and Character Intentions
00:06:43
Speaker
monster. I don't think this movie would be like that.
00:06:48
Speaker
Like everybody has an amazing acting, but the monster itself is just. Oh, yeah. And how he showed compassion while still being like a construct like that.
00:07:02
Speaker
So good. So good. I mean, it's it's a wild choice to to to pick somebody like Jacob Elordi, who's like.
00:07:11
Speaker
The the very definition of like, I don't know, a good an attractive individual be like, we're going to turn him into Frankenstein's monster. We'll fit we'll figure it out. Like. Good luck. Figure out. and they I mean, they did a good job at it. Like.
00:07:26
Speaker
but um yeah i mean i I know we're already talking about spoilers, but it's Frankenstein. Most people have seen shit. shit but um yeah I relate Victor. so like I kind of give the character Victor little props here because we're kind of entering an age with AI and stuff.
00:07:47
Speaker
in Victor always solidly kept
00:07:54
Speaker
Frankenstein, or the monster, as a like, not human. Not... Doesn't have feelings. It's it's just... in in It's an inanimate... It's animate. But it's just an object.
00:08:09
Speaker
Keep it that way. that's how it should be. With our current situation with AI and robots and shit, like... What are we going to do when we get to that situation? like Should we do what Victor does?
00:08:26
Speaker
Keep it at bay? Not let it flourish? already have people on both sides trying to push. Let's make them human and treat them as humans.
00:08:37
Speaker
we already have people on both sides us trying to push like let's make them as as human and treat them as humans which frankly isn't very great at times, but like, let's treat them better than we treat humans. And then other people were like, no, it's like, you have to draw the line in the sand. I see that. I think that's, i think that's fair. What's funny is he, he stuck to his fundamentals.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. He stuck to his fundamentals until, like, spoilers, like the last two minutes of the movie. And I think that's something that really graded me, too. It's like his flip felt unearned.
00:09:11
Speaker
Like he was an ass for so... Like, I'm saying an ass. He wasn't really an ass. Like, he's he's the villain hit for so long. Like, it's not an arc. It's not a ah redemption story for him.
00:09:23
Speaker
It just felt like... Well, now that you say that, like i I'm so sorry. Go live your life. It's like, where the hell did this come from? It's a credit to his acting because I felt like I could feel his point of view the entire movie.
00:09:41
Speaker
And I felt bad, sorry for him that he couldn't see it. He couldn't see the creature the way we so the audience saw him.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah. it's a it's It's a... good It's a good movie. It's a beautiful movie. The acting, the costumes, the special effects, the brutality of it are all Guillermo del Toro top top tier.
00:10:18
Speaker
um I'd be interested... If they came out with an extended like a director's cut. i think I think that's what I need. I think that's what I need from it. um Yeah. like so i think I think there's stuff with... like Mia Goth was phenomenal in this.
00:10:35
Speaker
um I feel like her parts and her her background were cut in ways... because i've heard i've heard all I've heard all sorts of takes on this about what her her character felt. I've heard people say that you know she was in love with for the monster. It's like...
00:10:57
Speaker
What movie was I watching a different movie? Cause I, I don't think she was in, i don't, I don't think she was. at I kind of got that vibe. I know she liked him, but like, I thought she liked her, but then she didn't.
00:11:10
Speaker
So like, okay. I don't know. I think to me, I feel like she didn't really love any, anybody. Like she wasn't in love. Like she wasn't playing that, like that caricature of like, Oh gosh, which, which boy do I pick? Yeah.
00:11:26
Speaker
Exactly. I feel like she was, I feel like she was like the antithesis of that of like, I'm, I'm being, I have to fit this role. Cause I don't have any options. So I'm marrying him, marrying this person. Oh, then Victor's around her and he's like being ridiculous. Like we all, we all know that friend who was like that when we were younger or now or whatever. It's like, dude, what are you who are you? What have you become to like, I love you. Be with me. Oh my God. It's like,
00:11:56
Speaker
You're embarrassing yourself. and And she's just like, dude, I'm already trapped. like Like this, I don't want to be in any of this. And then I think that's what she, it to me, I feel like she envied the monsters, true beauty, true freedom, true, like, like innocence in the world.
00:12:13
Speaker
Um, not that she was like, yo, Frankenstein, let's go run away together and we can be, have Franken babies or whatever. like shipping. I was going to ask, there in any of the lore, Frankenstein lore, does she ever become a construct creature? No?
00:12:33
Speaker
I mean, there's there's the bride there's the bride of Frankenstein, but like this... Like, I read the book, what, 20-some years ago. Like, the original. But I don't remember the details of it. I just Googled it. I just Googled it.
00:12:48
Speaker
In the 1994 film Mary Shelley's
Visuals vs Narrative: Aesthetic Beauty and Personal Scores
00:12:51
Speaker
Frankenstein, Victor reanimates dead Elizabeth using body parts. Turning into it Yeah. Anyway. it's like But, like, a live Elizabeth is, like... You know, that's not...
00:13:04
Speaker
that's not her. Like, that's not his, they're not boyfriend, girlfriend. Like that's not, to me, i that's what took away from it. It's like, she's not wanting, she's not wanting to be with him. She's just like envious of like his, his opportunity that he is not trapped in the times and the expectations of the era and being bogged down by war and everything like that. It's like, you're, you are true creation.
00:13:32
Speaker
in a way at its finest. And I envy that, that innocence and that, um, what you have in front of you. Um, that's, uh, there's, a that I wouldn't, I wish I could have been expanded more cause it was so like,
00:13:49
Speaker
uh, I wouldn't, you know, when she like jumped the spoiler, she jumped in the way of the gunshot. I believe it was. Yeah. I'm trying to remember it.
00:14:00
Speaker
Uh, I felt like there was some love connection there with her and the creature somewhat when he was like holding her and stuff. But, uh, I, I get both sides. I get like,
00:14:15
Speaker
she maybe loved him, but also she's weird. She liked insects and stuff. And not that that's weird, but like, I do think she loved it but I think it wasn't a, a a romantic lustful love.
00:14:30
Speaker
If that's, which is, which dominates so much of that movie in that time period, like those period pieces. Maybe that's a better, more clear way of what I'm saying. It's got you. I do think she loved, she loved him.
00:14:45
Speaker
but like wasn't in love in like, yeah or or maybe she was towards the end. Maybe be yeah after she got shot or something. It was like in his arms and stuff. Hmm.
00:14:57
Speaker
like, oh my God, you're awesome. I mean, she was wearing like the very, like her, her wedding dress had like the, the armbands of like the bride of Frankenstein kind of, um, theming where it's kind of like the cross, the cross ribbons go down her arms. And it's very on point with the, with the theming and kind of lending itself.
00:15:18
Speaker
The whole like rock altar thing in the cave was very like, we didn't, we didn't have a better, we didn't have a better way of doing, doing that. Like we, we spent, would do we, we spent all the money on the boat and the water tower. And now we're just like, get the lion King rock out and like layer on that. I'm just like, you spent it all on the chimera boat with Thrawn captaining it.
00:15:42
Speaker
Anyway, with a, with a, with a gold Kintsugi line. So yeah. All right. Do you have, do you have any other, any other thoughts on Frankenstein or should we jump to scores and recommendations?
00:16:02
Speaker
No, no other thoughts. I think I said them all. Yeah. right. What, what is your score and recommendation for Frankenstein? It is purely, if you like Frankenstein, definitely watch it.
00:16:17
Speaker
Um, cause the acting and directing obviously is amazing, but again, it's, it's It's the story, right? You're hindered by the story. So if you're looking for something blow your mind, again, not really this.
00:16:35
Speaker
um Yeah. And I give it like a six and a half.
00:16:43
Speaker
fair. That's fair. So my recommendation is a maybe. It's in the middle. I mean, if you love Guillermo del Toro, if you want to see a very pretty film,
00:16:54
Speaker
If you want to see wild sets,
00:16:59
Speaker
sunsets and beautiful composition and cinematography. Yeah. Watch it. It's it is. If you're looking for that, that story you've never heard before and just really knocks your socks off.
00:17:12
Speaker
I don't think it's a, it's a net and that's fair and that's fine. I did give it a, I, I wish you, I go back and forth on score for this, but where I landed, I landed it an eight with it, which is surprising because I have so many criticisms of this movie. um But I think it's maybe because passionate about what it, maybe i'm looking at what it could be and like where my headcanon takes it. I'm like, well, this is what I believe. I just wish they would have like validated that. So maybe my, my aid is a vow. Like assuming I'm correct on all of it, then it's an eight.
00:17:44
Speaker
matt But the recommendation is maybe.
00:17:49
Speaker
i wouldn't I wouldn't go after it if it's if you're like, I know Frankenstein.
Comparing Structures: Frankenstein and Unconventional Storytelling
00:17:54
Speaker
If you don't like Guillermo del Toro, don't watch it. Because it's very much in that same vein of all those others.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah. For sure. yeah Although it was set up, i thought I don't know, I thought it was set up pretty well. i like I like the like classic story of like present day telling a story about the past and then it going yeah going into the past and then we see the past yeah as most of the movie.
00:18:20
Speaker
I like that. Like, it's not quite Rashomon where it's like, because they didn't tell overlapping pieces of the same story. Like, he kind of, Monster kind of picked up like, oh, that's that's what you thought. And then it kind of picks up. so you pull three haves Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:39
Speaker
So I thought that was kind of because it's like, I don't want to see all this crap again. Like, I don't want to. I don't want to go back and do it from his perspective. That's true. Yeah. You'd think it. Cause yeah, they do that. And like those detective movies, like now this person's point of view of the same fucking thing. And then, yeah, no, this we've all seen, we've did we've watched Memento. I don't need to see it again. i don't need to watch Memento any good move more times. It is a good movie.
00:19:04
Speaker
Yeah. And then you watch the cut where they they actually put it in order. And it's like, this is stupid. Like, it's so much better in the weird, version the weird, like the the theatrical version. Like, why did I think that watching this in order was? Don't. It's dumb. that It's so stupid. It's like, why did I think watching this in order was going to be?
00:19:24
Speaker
Like a thing. right This is so and it defeats the purpose of the full. I'm dumb. Right. Right. All right.