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BONUS (26b): Going Deeper With Hannah Lang
154 Plays3 years ago
In this bonus episode, Jill Devine sits down with Laura Fleetwood and Hannah Lang to ask the questions she had while listening to Episode 26.
A few resources Hannah mentioned:
Slugs & Bugs: https://slugsandbugs.com/
Orange Kids Music: https://thinkorange.com/orange-kids-music/
Seeds Family Worship: https://www.seedsfamilyworship.com/
Messiah Kids Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/kids/
Normal Goes A Long Way Website: https://www.normalgoesalongway.com/
Normal Goes A Long Way Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normalgoesalongway/
Normal Goes A Long Way Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Normal-Goes-A-Long-Way-110089491250735
Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
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Transcript
Introduction and Jill's Background
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect.
Guests and Faith of the Next Generation
00:00:37
Speaker
Welcome to the conversation.
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to Normal Goes a Long Way, the podcast where faith and life intersect in the life of our host, Jill Devine. Today in the studio, we have Jill Devine. We have Hannah Lang, who I had the pleasure of interviewing in the last episode. My name is Laura Fleetwood. I am friends and spiritual mentor to Jill. And today we're continuing the conversation about the faith of the next generation, our kids.
00:01:11
Speaker
When I spoke with Hannah last, Jill was busy taking notes with all her questions that she wants to ask Hannah, so Jill, take it away. Yeah, like I always do, right? That's right. This is just the process. I'll say there's a lot of notes on this page over there. There are. But I write lots of different things, little thoughts that come to mind. It may not even, you know, be brought up, but I will say something that Laura said and
00:01:35
Speaker
this is exactly what you were made to do. Talking about what God's purpose is, yes, I would send every single kid to you because you have a way of making the kids feel important as they are, but just the way that you talk
Parenting and Spiritual Education
00:01:52
Speaker
about it. And I've seen it in action. So I know, I just, I'm blown away because I could never do that.
00:02:00
Speaker
Like I could never teach little kids. That's okay. You were created to do something else. Right. I do feel like I was created to do this. So I feel very lucky that I found it early and I've always sort of known this was going to be my career. So I love it. It's the best job in the world. I just, yes, I just seen you in action so many times and I just, that is a gift.
00:02:23
Speaker
Thank you. A total gift. And it is really interesting to me because I have the five and the three year old. So I'm in that kind of fun phase of the why not so many serious questions, some, but not so serious. But I want to kind of start with the end of the episode that you just recorded with Laura and you talked about
00:02:49
Speaker
Well, Laura's question was, how do you address when the parents say I want to leave it up to the kids to decide? I've shared briefly, I think we talked a little bit about it, but I also have been careful of my parents since they're not
00:03:05
Speaker
on this podcast to discuss their feelings, but my sister and I didn't grow up that way. And we weren't raised in a family that went to church or talked about God. And I did recently ask them why they chose to send my sister and me to a Lutheran church at the age of, I don't know, sixth grade or so, my sister, five years older,
00:03:34
Speaker
And the one thing my dad said was because we didn't want to be hypocritical. We didn't want to be there with you if we didn't feel the same, but we also wanted to make sure that you and your sister could decide.
00:03:49
Speaker
But what I don't feel like I got clarification on was when you were talking about how these parents, we do want the best for our kids.
Trusting God's Plan for Children
00:04:00
Speaker
We want them to eat the great foods, to make them emotionally great and physically great and just all of these things. And why wouldn't we teach them about our spiritual side and our relationship with God? But what about those kids?
00:04:19
Speaker
that don't have that. That's what I kept wrestling with because I just was thinking about me growing up and I didn't have the access.
00:04:28
Speaker
I don't know, how do we figure that out? I don't... That's a big question. I know. It's hard because my heart aches for that too. I mean, I seriously, my heart aches for all the children that don't have a positive experience with church. Whether it's because they're just not there and so they're not in the environments where they have these relationships with Christian adults or other Christian kids or maybe, you know, their parents, even
00:04:53
Speaker
don't speak well of Christians or of church. And so I of course want them to know Jesus' love as well. So my heart aches for them too. It's a really big question. One of the things I find comfort in is that God is way bigger than I am and His Holy Spirit is always working. And in your life, I know you've explored a few of the ways that God has worked through different people just in your journey. And I find comfort in knowing that
00:05:21
Speaker
God sees the big picture and I don't see the big picture all the time and it's almost like a quilt. I don't know if you've heard this analogy before but you know if you look at the top of the quilt you can see the big picture it's all beautiful everything is finished and it's nice and neat and in rows and you can see the design but if you look at it from underneath
00:05:42
Speaker
Have you seen the underneath part of a quilt before? You have like a stitching project maybe? It's a mess because there's a ton of threads everywhere. It's going in and out, there's tangles, there's different colors. It doesn't look like anything. In this life, we sometimes only see the underneath.
00:05:58
Speaker
side where we don't know how everything connects. We don't know what it's supposed to look like. We don't know the big picture and God sees the big picture and he can put people in our lives. He can work through certain situations. He can send his Holy Spirit to
00:06:15
Speaker
Prompt your heart or to work faith or to work in certain situations And so I don't have a good answer for what to do in those situations where maybe the children don't have that environment But I do trust that our God is good and he wants every child to know him and love him and so I do my best and in kind of our arena and and Hope that I can be a part of what he's doing in their lives. You're right and thinking of it Just people will get placed in their lives
00:06:44
Speaker
And we can't control that, only God does. But that's what I was thinking of, which leads to kind of this next idea of, you had said the faith of the next generation, there are two big influencers on that. It's the family and the church. And
00:07:03
Speaker
I'm an overthinker. I think, Laura, you said in the last episode overcomplicate things. I started writing all this stuff down like, well, I didn't have this at home. So what do I do? How do I know what I'm doing? How do I beyond church know without making it fake, like truly authentic, bringing God in and then going back to my notes, like I know I'm overthinking it all. I know all the little things in quotes, air quotes here are noticeable.
00:07:33
Speaker
There was a time when, and still, because we never prayed before meals. And I don't ever want it to feel forced. And we always forget some of the food prayers and the blessings. But when I start to beat myself up and think, oh, we did not pray for dinner, or we didn't pray before breakfast or lunch, I think about all the other things.
00:07:57
Speaker
And I'm bringing this up because I am the biggest over-analyzer, over-thinker, beat myself up, like the little things matter. Oh yes, absolutely.
Teaching Children About Faith Through Activities
00:08:08
Speaker
So much. And I want to share this story. We went to a conference together in Atlanta, a church conference.
00:08:16
Speaker
Can you believe that? Like I went to a church conference. Isn't that crazy? And it was fun. It was so fun. It's not as boring as it sounds. It's not. It was so enlightening. But I chose to go to this breakout session where it was about kids ministry and it was the preschool age. And that was appealing to me because of my girls.
00:08:37
Speaker
But there was this little thing that they gave us that they would give to the kids if the kids were there. And it was, I'm more important than, or something like God made the water, God made the animals, God made the world, God made me, I'm like the most important. And it's a little cling. And they were supposed, the kids are supposed to brush their teeth and they have this there and they have little toothbrushes.
00:09:02
Speaker
The genius of it is it just sticks on your mirror. Yes, just sticks. That's all you do. So we have these weird vanities, like totally old school, they need to be replaced, totally different conversation, but we couldn't put it on there, so we put it on this wall mirror that we have.
00:09:19
Speaker
And anytime, especially the oldest, the five-year-old will walk by it, not every time, but sometimes. She'll say, oh, God made the earth, God made the water, God made the animals, and God made me. And that's when I wrote down, like, yeah.
00:09:35
Speaker
That's a little thing. Right? Absolutely. Well, and every single effort counts. I mean, please don't ever beat yourself up. You are doing such a good job because you care about your kids enough to think, am I doing a good job? So that already means you are doing a good job. Thanks. But also, also God takes every single effort that we give it and he does amazing things through it, right? It's not just on you. It's not just your responsibility. Yes, we do have the weight of responsibility to share
00:10:05
Speaker
God's love with our kids, but God's working through you. His Holy Spirit is taking every single effort that you do, and he's doing the magic. He does the growth. He gives them the gift of faith in their hearts. But yes, those little fun things can make a big difference. Maybe it's the music you listen to in your car. You guys, there's some good kids worship music that I love. For your girls, there's this group called Slugs and Bugs.
00:10:31
Speaker
like slugs and bugs or orange kids music or seeds family worship. I mean, there's a ton of great music you could listen to in the car and music's a wonderful way to put the truth of God in their hearts because it sticks in your head, right? And sticks in your heart. And so there's a one that I sing to my little son, River. Jesus wants to be my friend forever. And it's gonna stick through your head, right? And someday he's gonna have it in his head and go,
00:11:01
Speaker
Jesus wants to be my friend forever. And it's just the truth of something that gets stuck in his little heart, right? So music's a really great way. Or I also love to encourage parents every time you're outside and the kids comment on something. It's raining today.
00:11:16
Speaker
Isn't it so wonderful that God sends us the rain? God knew that the earth needed rain today, and so thank you, God, for the rain. Or if your girls are fighting, for example, and you say, hey, say you're sorry, and then you ask the other one to share forgiveness or something.
00:11:33
Speaker
you could share. Well, we say we forgive others because God forgave us first. Isn't it so great that God forgives us no matter what? So we can forgive others too.
Sunday School vs. Church Services
00:11:43
Speaker
So you just take everything that's happening in your little day, something that's already happening in the rhythm of your day and just pointing it to God. Music is a huge one. I have noticed that big time. Yeah, with both of them actually. But I think I've noticed it a little bit more with the younger one. She's really picking up
00:12:02
Speaker
on the different music styles and the different words. I wish people could see your smile right now. She just glows, literally. And it just made me think of what you also said. When children share their joy of God, it makes you smile. And I feel the same way. And when I hear, especially the five-year-old say something about God or praying or ask a question,
00:12:31
Speaker
I do smile, I'm like, okay, she's starting to get it. And she's taught me about more air quotes here, characters in the Bible and stories than I ever knew. Like Zacchaeus, I just learned about Zacchaeus this year and his name has been brought up like in three different conversations along the way, which by the way, Zacchaeus is a text, no, wait, was he a text collector? He was the short one.
00:12:58
Speaker
Climb to the tree. Climb the sycamore tree. There's a song about that too. Yeah, she's saying it to me. And so it's so fun to hear those things and to like, she doesn't understand the whole concept, but she's getting there. Right. So that smile, like I get it. I can only imagine what it's like for you when you're around those kids all the time. Oh, it's so fun. And I learned so much about God through the kids too. Absolutely. If they ask a fun question or if they make a connection that I've never made before, or if they just
00:13:26
Speaker
share an emotion with me or share their experience with God. I learn about it. I learn about him all the time. Well, just think about how Jesus commented on the faith of a child and how that is kind of our goal is to have faith in him, just like a child does. And that reminds us when they share their faith that yeah, we make it complicated. It's actually quite simple.
00:13:48
Speaker
I only have a couple more thoughts. One is actually what people would say traditional Sunday school and then attending church service. I look at it this way for me. I've heard people say, well, again, I know that this is to each their own.
00:14:06
Speaker
Your kids should learn what it's like to go to church and be quiet and listen. But at the same time, mama would love to soak in the message herself and just enjoy it. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.
00:14:22
Speaker
First, let me say, I did not have a great Sunday school experience. So I loved church, but I did not have a great Sunday school experience. And so I think a lot of people, when they think of Sunday school, they think of a classroom and it's like school, right? I don't even like to call it Sunday school because the image that I get is just,
00:14:41
Speaker
the 90 year old lady who's using a felt board and you're sitting in desks and it's super boring and you don't wanna be there, right? So when we have our, we call it Messiah Kids on Sunday, we make sure that environment is tailored just for those kids. So we have so much fun, you guys. We play games, we do competitions, we have prizes, we watch videos, we sing songs, we work in big groups and then in small groups. And we do hear the truth of God,
00:15:10
Speaker
but it's in a really engaging way. So the benefit of those environments for your girls is it's tailored to exactly what they are gonna find fun and engaging, entertaining. And I think that's a really important way to share the truth of God, because gosh, I really don't want a child growing up thinking God is boring.
00:15:29
Speaker
or it's no fun to be at church. Oh, that's a fail. That's a fail because I just want them to know the beauty of who God is and the richness of being in a faith community. So shame on us if we ever make church too boring for kids, because that is not what we want to communicate.
Handling Tough Questions from Kids
00:15:47
Speaker
When it comes to being in worship with you though, one of the things that I think is really important about worshiping with your kids is they get to see you
00:15:57
Speaker
Singing to God they get to see you reading the Bible they get to celebrate things like in our church We do baptisms or we do communion they get to see you doing those things and it's so powerful for a child to see their parent doing those things and
00:16:13
Speaker
So there's not like a right or wrong way to do it. You could choose to send them to their own environment. You could choose to have them worship with you. You could do a combination of both. There's no right or wrong way to do it, but I think there's benefits to both. I promise we will end on a happy note, but I do want to address the tragedy and the tough questions and, you know, joking around.
00:16:35
Speaker
with you before about this, I remember when we were having some really bad weather here in the Midwest, the tornadoes, and having the news on, and the oldest said, well, why does God make tornadoes if it does all this bad stuff? And I said, I have no idea. And I think we were joking around about it, and somebody said, oh, whenever that happens, I tell them to go ask their Sunday school teacher. And I said, oh, that's a good one.
00:17:04
Speaker
It is those tough questions, but then you pair up the shootings, you pair up the other tragedies. I think the worst thing we can do as parents is not talk about it.
00:17:18
Speaker
But there is an appropriate way to do so. Right. Right. Well, I agree. I think shutting them down is probably one of the worst things you can do. Like we don't ask questions like that or we don't say that word in our house or we don't just just believe, just pray harder. I mean, because that shuts them down immediately. That's never going to open the door for a future conversation.
00:17:39
Speaker
I think keeping that open line of communication open is one of the most important things you can do because if they can't talk to you about those simple things when they get older, they're not going to want to talk to you about the complicated. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And so I agree. One of the worst things you can do is not engage in that conversation. And also a lot of times kids just want to know that you're listening and that you're a safe person to ask a question to.
00:18:03
Speaker
So even if you don't know the answer, one of the great ways to respond is saying, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that because that is being really truthful and that sharing with them that it's okay to not know the answer to some of those big questions. A lot of times I'll encourage parents to say, why don't we find that out together? Or I wonder what God's word has to say about that.
00:18:27
Speaker
Or, what, can we go talk to Pastor Jim together?
Simple Truths of Faith for Children
00:18:29
Speaker
Let's go ask him. Cause that's showing them, oh, where do I go if I don't know the answer to this question? Well, I can ask my mom, or I can look in the Bible cause that has God's words and God's words are true. So I guess I can trust what's in the Bible or...
00:18:42
Speaker
Oh, Pastor Jim, I can talk to my pastor about questions of dinosaurs or tornadoes. Absolutely. So you're even just giving them some tools that they can use later when it comes to difficult questions or different experiences, different questions they have. Or send them to Hannah. Anyway, let's end on the three simple truths. I know
00:19:06
Speaker
Is it technically six? We just sort of phrase them differently for every environment. For your girls in preschool, what we want them to know is God made me, God loves me, Jesus wants to be my friend forever. Okay, then the next age up. Elementary kids, we say God loves me, I can trust God no matter what, and I should love others the way that Jesus loves me.
Conclusion and Thanks
00:19:31
Speaker
Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you. I mean, for real. And you have offered me so many great resources outside of just faith. And it's so inspiring. Again, I just know that this is what you were made to do and that you really, truly care, not just about
00:19:53
Speaker
these kiddos and what's happening in their life in general, but of course, their faith and what happens next. So thank you so much. Oh, you're so welcome. I love doing this. And I honestly could probably have talked for another three hours. So another time. We'll invite you on another time. Great. Thank you so much, Hannah. Thank you.