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Are the Seattle Sounders wasting money?!
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Once again, every MLS club is out of Conacaf Champions Cup, which means the 2022 Seattle Sounders remain the ONLY MLS team to ever win the modern version of the tournament. What did that Sounders team have that the rest of MLS still hasn’t replicated? We dive into the roster construction, mentality, depth, experience and timing that helped Seattle break through where every other club has fallen short. Then we shift into the ongoing No. 9 discourse surrounding the Sounders attack, including the current striker platoon of Jordan Morris, Osaze De Rosario and Danny Musovski. Is there a real answer on this roster? We wrap up by digging through the MLS salary guide to identify the biggest bargains, best values, and biggest over- and under-performers on Seattle’s roster relative to their contracts.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Seattle Sounders Match Recap
00:00:00
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Quite the scorcher today. Well it's gonna be scorcher.
00:00:23
Speaker
Welcome back to the Sounder at Heart studio in the ID. We are laying this one down on Thursday evening ahead of match day 14 in Major League Soccer. The Seattle Sounders are coming off a big, much needed 3-2 victory over the San Jose Earthquakes at Lumen Field last night.
00:00:39
Speaker
LA Galaxy coming to town this weekend. We're going to talk about that, and we got some good discussion topics lined up tonight. We're going to talk some CCC, do an MLS post-mortem with ah the last two MLS clubs eliminated. We're going talking about what the 2022 Sounders had that no other MLS team did that allowed them to win.
00:00:59
Speaker
that competition. We got an agenda check where we're gonna be doing the number nine discourse. We're gonna be talking about Seattle's number nine platoon and how it compares to other number nine situations throughout the league.
MLS Salary Guide and Sounders Analysis
00:01:11
Speaker
And then the umlla MLS salary guide is out.
00:01:13
Speaker
We're gonna crunch some numbers. We're gonna look at what these guys are paid, who's living up to their salaries, who's the biggest bargain. So excited to catch up with you, Noah. A lot to get into. What's up, man? How you feeling? Big win last night. Big win, Sounders are back, swept the Quakes, saw some fun discourse around how, oh, well, the Sounders, you know, it was the second team, the Quakes, does the win doesn't count. I don't, counts for me.
00:01:39
Speaker
I had fun, so a win's a win. And the Quakes, put them in the bin. Yeah, you know, ah it's true that they did not have Timo Werner and they also didn't have Nico Tsikuras who we've talked about a lot on this show. And he's unfortunately out for, I think, three or four months after groin surgery, which I'm genuinely bummed about. He was really fun to watch. I was really impressed by him in the Sounders Quakes game in San Jose.
00:02:04
Speaker
ah But no I mean, that was a lot of their starting defense out there, and that's a really good, really deep team. So there's I don't think there's any taken away from that win. And what did you know's ah what did you think about the offense? Watching the offense break out for three goals. You know you had those two draws, Sporting KC 1-1, San Diego 1-1. And I think that's everyone is feeling a little bit sour about that going into this Quakes game. So what did you what did you see from the attack in this one, Jesus, Ferreira, the whole gang?
00:02:32
Speaker
I mean, it was nice to see Jesus get a goal. It was nice to see KKR kind of bounce back after his early mistake. He looked like he could have had one. Snyder Brunel looked excellent, like he could have had a goal.
00:02:45
Speaker
I mean, people are worried about the number nine position, and we'll talk about that, but it doesn't it really matter if they keep scoring. i mean, they're scoring multiple goals in multiple games, and that looks good
Sounders vs LA Galaxy Preview
00:03:01
Speaker
to me.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, they didn't score multiple goals in the two games preceding this game, so maybe that's where the consternation was coming from. But definitely a badly needed three-goal outburst from the offense, and hopefully they can keep it going. la Galaxy coming to town on Saturday, and they're not very good. i don't know how much Galaxy you've been watching this year, but ah they just lost three zero to Sporting Kansas City. So if you thought drawing Sporting KC, worst team in the league, one-to-one was bad, Imagine losing them three to zero.
00:03:31
Speaker
That's gonna be a great one one draw Yeah, this is gonna be a great one one draw between the galaxy and the Sounders and I'm gonna have to hear about it on Twitter about how this is the worst loss in Seattle Sounders history for ah the next four weeks Well, OK, Noah, let's get into our discussion topics here for the evening. But let's get this housekeeping plugs out of the way. First, if watching on YouTube, please like the video. Everyone, sub to the channel. We're on the road to 4K. Also, please subscribe to QED Coffee, lobingscorchers.com slash coffee.
00:04:03
Speaker
25% off anything site-wide with the code LS74. So great way to support Lobbing Scorchers Kickoff and the show as a whole. And subscribe to Sounder at Heart as well. Sounder at heart.com slash LS is still a thing. So ah support J-O and the gang as well. Anything else we need to plug here, Noah? No, or no good sounds good, yeah. All right.
CONCACAF Champions Cup Retrospective
00:04:24
Speaker
Let's get into it. And I wanted to start tonight, Noah, with a CONCACAF Champions Cup post-mortem. There are no Major League Soccer teams left in CCC this year. LAFC.
00:04:37
Speaker
crashed out in their Toluca series. Nashville SC couldn't get it done against Tigris, so it's an all-Liga Emekis final for the first time in a couple years. And you know every time the last and MLS team crashes out, you gotta do the post-mortem discourse, talk about you know how MLS closes the gap with Liga Emekis and all that good stuff.
00:04:57
Speaker
but the what what i the How I wanted to frame this discussion, Noah, was ah you know there's still famously only one MLS club that has ever won the modern incarnation of CONCACAF Champions Cup. Can you remind me the year in the team on that? That would be 2022, the Seattle Sounders. 2022, Seattle Sounders.
00:05:19
Speaker
Every MLS club in the modern era that has entered this competition has fallen short, except for that one. except for that one. They were the only one that could do it. And you know I think we've reflected on that plenty, but I think this is a good opportunity to, as we sort of try and assess where the Seattle team is right now, not only in the MLS hierarchy, but the CONCACAF hierarchy,
00:05:46
Speaker
I think a big question is whether they have some of those same attributes of that 2022 team, because that team had what it took and had what they needed to actually go into CONCACAF and get it done. And this team, the last two years in that post-2022 era, they have not been able to do that as successfully. And we're going to talk about, you know, the role that road form in these trips to Mexico plays in that. But let's ah let's try and define, Noah, what those attributes are.
00:06:16
Speaker
are When you think, I'll let you start it off. When you think of the 2022 Seattle Sounders and their run in CCC, what are those attributes you think that that team had that other MLS teams ah didn't have? And we're gonna talk about whether this current Seattle team has.
00:06:34
Speaker
Man, that's a really tough. i guess you think it's It's really, to me, what it comes down to is a bit of luck, a bit of grit, and a bit of a situation where you get results in Mexico. Like, I i think that is truly what it comes down to is like, you had a player in Nicolas Ladero who knew how to frustrate teams, draw penalties, draw important fouls, and...
00:07:05
Speaker
capitalize on those same instances where he was drawing these fouls and stuff, right? Like that was a big deal. that was That was a big deal. That's how they advanced, that's how they advanced the final and winning is important. Drawing, even more important. Not not giving up road goals, that's important. The Sounders made it to the final by scoring multiple world goals and that's just something that a lot of MLS teams still can't do. I think the idea that MLS teams can't succeed in Mexico is a little bit overblown but I do think that the Sounders, they didn't get lucky but they played perfectly and executed on every opportunity that they had when they were down in Mexico.
00:08:00
Speaker
I think so much of it comes down to the ability to take results and score goals in these away legs in Mexico. That's what so many of these and MLS teams can't do. That's what Seattle struggled to do both last year and this year. And in 2022, they were able to get those results. If you remember, they went they went down to a Club Leone and worked a draw. They went down to Pumas and they worked a 2-2 draw. And you know so I was thinking, like what what about what do I remember specifically about those road games in Mexico where Seattle was able to actually take those results and grind out those draws in a way that they weren't this year? And I think, I mean, you hit it on the head. Nico Ladero is a huge part of this. Like, in terms of his role as a standard setter and a leader, it was a big reason why this team was able to do that. But I'll give you two other names.
00:08:57
Speaker
Raul Ruiz Diaz, and here's one, Jao Paulo. He was one of the ones who drew one of those penalty kicks at Club Lyon. And ah that, I think, speaks to the kind of experience and the battle-testedness that you need in these competitions. You have to have a team that has played a lot of big games and a lot of tournaments together. I think it's pretty rare that you're going to see a team that's kind of freshly, newly assembled, that hasn't played together a lot, that's going to make a run in these tournaments. so That 22 team, they had that experience, that leadership, that battle-testedness, but they also had, and I think this is what people talk about a lot, they had alphas, right?
00:09:37
Speaker
Nico Ladero, that's an alpha. Raul Ruiz Diaz, that's an alpha. Leo Chu, that's an alpha. Well, you know, but like the top end of the roster, it was kind of funny looking back on it too, like Javier Iago was a starter on that team. like you know it was Shout out Jimmy Bangers, Jimmy Madronda. Yeah, Jimmy Bangers. so But that's that's kind of what I'm saying is, like honestly, the quality of the roster front to back, I don't think it's that different from the roster right now. I would argue there's probably, honestly, even more raw talent on the roster now than there was on that 22
Current Sounders Squad Evaluation
00:10:07
Speaker
roster. But I think it's basic basically comparable.
00:10:10
Speaker
But when you look at the top-end guys, Nico Ladero, Raul Ruiz Diaz, and Jao Paulo, where i think where I come down is this group right now,
00:10:21
Speaker
I'm not saying that they don't have that. I think people are taking it as a given that they don't have that. I think this group needs to prove that they that they have those attributes that can win you a tournament like CCC or just any of these tournaments where you have to play teams from Mexico or what have you.
00:10:39
Speaker
So ah i don't know. I think but i think this this group still has to prove that, but I also think there's more evidence that they are on the road to that than maybe we give credit for. I think the league's cup run last year, they showed a lot of those attributes and that's kind of where Pedro de la Vega comes in though, right? Like when you talk about those alphas or those guys that you can rely on in those big moments in these tournaments,
00:11:06
Speaker
he's supposed to be one of the guys that can deliver that, and he unfortunately has been injured a lot over the last couple years. And we've talked about that ad nauseum. But ah when I think about the experience and the battle-testedness and the leadership that you kind of need, it just I feel like this group still has to show that they can tap into that and reach that level. And in CCC, the last two years, they weren't able to do that.
00:11:30
Speaker
Although I think... The CCC run this year was pretty good. you know They lost on road goals, but that's kind of where I stand with it, Noah. i've I don't know. i'm Maybe i'm I'm struggling with the the terminology alpha because I'm picturing some dude with like shoulder injections and like, ah you know, looks maxing or whatever.
00:11:52
Speaker
But like, you know, at the end of the day, you also had three DPs who were playing soccer at the same time. And that was kind of a big deal. You had Raul Ruiz Diaz who was playing. You had Nico Ladero who was playing. You Alvaro Snek was playing out of position.
00:12:08
Speaker
and performing. And then, you know, that was obviously highlighted by prime Stefan Fry and all of the, you know, different, you know, Obed Vargas stepping in a time when, you know, he was, what was he? 17, 16, Yeah. 16. So it was, maybe it was less so alphas and just like you actually had the best on your roster playing like this run.
00:12:39
Speaker
in CONCACAF was like kind of tough. Like there just wasn't anyone playing, you know, like when people get injured, there's no depth. Liga Mechis teams have depth. They have more spend, especially the top end roster.
00:12:54
Speaker
Like, your second Your second tier of players on your roster are equally as good as your first tier. Now, does that mean that and MLS's first tier isn't as good as Liga Meckie's first tier? No, but it means that the second tier is usually a massive drop-off with way less experience. So you have to have the best of your best players playing and available. Look what happened in Asheville.
00:13:19
Speaker
Look what happened to Nashville. It's about staying healthy. It's about getting everyone going right away, having a quick start. So the Sounders doing it, like, I don't think it was luck. I do think that they genuinely played their asses off. But to get into that gear that early in the season, it's a
LAFC's Performance and Strategy Critique
00:13:39
Speaker
challenge. And i really don't think that teams quite know how to do it yet.
00:13:44
Speaker
And they're also disadvantaged when they do get to the semifinals and the finals. Let's talk about the ah just l LAFC component of this before before we move on because I do think that their stock has kind of changed in the last few weeks. Doesn't it feel like that? I mean, they were right about to make a CCC final. They crash out of that series. And to me, I don't know how much that second leg of against Toluca that you watched. but they didn't feel particularly close. No, they didn't feel particularly close.
00:14:21
Speaker
I felt like Seattle, oh they literally lost four nil. So, I mean, i they yeah. So they weren't close at all. If you watch the first half, they kind of held on, but it was literally just that, like they were barely holding on. It looked like, it looked like a chicken with its head cut off. Like it was still running around, but you're like, Oh, you're, you're going to die. yeah Oh, you're, this is kind of gruesome. You're going to die.
00:14:45
Speaker
Well, so what do you think of the Mark Dos Santos stock coming out of this? Because we were both on record as on board with their thought process behind an internal hire and kind of not overthinking it, going with a guy who's already been a part of the team that the players already know. If they felt comfortable enough to hire him, then that tells me that the players respect him.
00:15:08
Speaker
So we both, I liked the process with that. And i felt like a lot of the criticism of it was kind of, I don't know, overthinking it and not also kind of misreading his track record. I feel like he had those Vancouver teams punching above their weight by all rights compared to what they should have been. But I think his stock is down coming out of this. He, first of all, he messed up the squad rotation. ah all season really while they were trying to juggle CCC. He just wasn't rotating. So that tells me that he doesn't trust his depth, but it's also like, that's what happens. That's how you end up with a team that gets run into the ground by the end of the tournament. And then also, this is the other thing. ah
00:15:49
Speaker
There's just no way, to me, there's no way that a player like David Martinez can't be starting CONCACAF Champions Cup semi-final. like Whatever the reason is why he didn't start that game, you know maybe it's like his defensive work rate or you know he's not doing something else that Mark Dos Santos doesn't like.
00:16:10
Speaker
He is the main guy on their team that can pull a goal out of absolutely nowhere in any given game, and it doesn't matter who he's playing against. that guy needs to be out there in a CONCACAF Champions Cup semi-final. I'm sorry. Like that is just, ah that was pretty criminal as well. So now I'm kind of, I'm kind of side eyeing MDS a little bit after this. What do you, what do you think of MDS? I mean, he showed his, he showed his lack of knowledge around that rotation. He has not coached clubs with
00:16:41
Speaker
such top-heavy rosters. I think that's one thing. Like, the Vancouver Whitecaps teams that he coached were so shit. They were so shit that across the board, they were just bad. Like, there was some prospects, there was some people, but it wasn't so top-heavy to be like, okay, well, we need Buonga and Son to perform and also David Martinez.
00:17:03
Speaker
And... I don't know, maybe the second step down is like, you know, Marky Delgado, which like, that's, I don't think he's bad, but like, that's tough.
00:17:15
Speaker
Well, yeah, like I'm starting to- I think that their roster build is more of an issue and his, like his greenness in handling a situation like CONCACAF Champions Cup, which is something you talk about all the time, is that battle-tested teams, battle-tested coaches, Brian Schmetzer knows what to do in these situations, but even he makes mistakes. he made I think he made mistakes in certain CONCACAF games. Going down to Tigres, I thought he made mistakes down there as well. It's a very tough tournament. Now,
00:17:46
Speaker
The second part of this is like, okay, is Bartos Santos just shit? And we're taking this off of the last four results, right? They draw a pretty average San Diego team. The Sounders also did the same to a pretty average San Diego team. They lose at Toluca, lose 4-1, which was a thumping, at Houston. Nope. in Oh, sorry. at ah In l LA against Houston and lose to St. Louis. Now...
00:18:15
Speaker
The post-CCC slump will come for you. It will hit you. We see it every time. So that's not surprising to me. But I feel like here's my takeaway from it.
00:18:28
Speaker
Mark Dos Santos has not put this team under the bus. He has not been a complete and utter failure. If you brought in another coach brand new, group you know, from Europe or something, he gets to the semifinal, maybe they crash out, maybe they have, you know, a couple of bad games. Are people calling for his head? Actually, honestly, probably, because LAFC fans are a bit insane. But i don't I'm not ready to give up on on ah on MDS yet. like He has the opportunity to turn this around. The World Cup break is going to save so many teams. It's going to save so many teams. It's going to save Nashville. It might save LAFC. It's going to be an interesting moment for everyone. So if they can get Sun scoring some goals, if David Martinez is continuing to be unlocked, because if anything, MDS has turned... David Martinez into an actual player. So like you have to at least acknowledge that piece. So will they bring in some reinforcements in the summer? don't They have an open DP spot.
00:19:34
Speaker
They have an open DP spot. This roster could be expanded upon. so I'm not ready to give up on LAFC and I'm not ready to give up on Mark Dos Santos yet. It's just, it's, it's too early to start proclaiming and doing victory laps about the anti Mark Dos Santos thing. Also LAFC have done this.
00:19:54
Speaker
They've done this in the past where they crash out of CCC and they look like shit for two, three weeks. And then they're like, actually we're God actually we're God. So we'll see what happens.
00:20:08
Speaker
I think there's room to critique how MDS managed the season and managed the tournament. He's just, he's so new to it. Like he's new to a team of this caliber. Yeah. Which you can, which you can say it was a bad reason to hire him, but also like, I don't know. I think there was going to be some of this growing pains with any coach that you brought in.
00:20:32
Speaker
I think there's there's room to critique how he has managed the season, but also realize that if you actually look at their roster, I think it might not be as good as we thought. Wait, so are you saying they had a bad offseason?
00:20:46
Speaker
I think they might have not had as good an offseason as we thought. They might not have. But, I mean, so we're going to talk about the salary guide in a bit, but I pulled a few numbers that they have players on. from that and if you look at it, there's some there's some stuff in there where I'm like, I don't know about this. They have Tyler Boyd, who I would say that he's the equivalent, their roster equivalent of Paul Areola, like in terms of the money he's making and the role he's supposed to play. He's on 1.4 million. He has one goal.
00:21:17
Speaker
this year is Tyler Boyd a $1.4 million 31 year old. Yeah. in MLS. Has he ever been in his career? I don't know about that. Uh, and then also if you're looking at how the stock, yo thing is going right now, he's on 1.8 and that started really hot and he was looking awesome, but then he got injured and hasn't looked as good since he came back. So right now that's a lot of resources that you're not getting a lot of return on.
00:21:42
Speaker
They still have Aaron long on a million dollars in 2026, which, uh, I, as two legend, as two legend, I think he's still a good MLS center back, but he's been injured a lot. And I don't know if he is that good anymore. 33. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:56
Speaker
yeah Exactly, 33 year old, 33 year old Aaron Long. Their version of Moose on their roster, Jeremy Obobese, he's on 722. That's pretty much exactly the number that Moose is on. He's expected to play that exact same role. He has zero goals.
00:22:14
Speaker
this year. Yeah. And then and he looks bad. Like he looks actively not. And then they have Jacob Schaffelberg on 520 K who that is, he's kind of their roster equivalent of Paul Rothrock. I would say like in terms of the money that he's making in the role that he's supposed to play and he, they have zero goals from him as well. Uh, one goal combined from Tyler Boyd, Jacob Schaffelberg and Jeremy of Obasi. So you look at that.
00:22:40
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not sure that that's like a a winning formula, you know, and I think there's questions to be had about that. I agree with you. I'm not putting them on downfall watch yet.
00:22:52
Speaker
I think that would be getting over our skis, but I do think, man, like, they're They're in a tough situation because they're they're hungover. Their roster isn't looking as good as we thought it did. And it's not like there's you're they're getting the World Cup break for sure, and maybe they do something with the DP spot. But I think their standing in the West is questionable right now in a way that I didn't think it would be as recently as like two weeks ago.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah. I like I'm not scared of them necessarily like I am of Vancouver or of San Jose but like I'm just they have flexibility on their roster and a Post-world cup player coming in that's how they did their bump last season was they got son on that roster and then it was like hey What if we scored 15 goals a game?
00:23:46
Speaker
Like what if Sun scored 15 goals a game and him and Denny Denny Bwonga wanted to play soccer again and like That's what I would be worried about. That hasn't looked like that really this season. And Son, that's another thing. They have him on $11 million, dollars and he has two goals both in CCC. Zero goals league. Seven assists, though, in league play. Yeah, true, true. But, like... He's playing a little different role. Like, I think that's two people are kind of...
00:24:09
Speaker
I think that, you know, that's our exact Ferreira cope. So I don't want to dismiss that. I think but like he should that's exactly what it is. He should be, but it is, but like he should be scoring more than two goals. All costs. Yeah, but he's, i think I literally think he's, he is playing a different role. Like he is, he is being asked to play a different role by Mark Dos Santos in a different formation. And that's just the truth. Like they could, they could rework it and he could so probably score more, but I mean, And maybe they should.
00:24:39
Speaker
And maybe that's something that they should think about. But seven assists, I'm not, you you know, you've said it. I've said it. An assist feels as good as a goal to you. Seven assists. I mean, he's clearly dictating tempo and play. Like, I don't, I don't know. I think the difference is that he's still on four he's played 32 matches there and he has 14 goals.
00:25:03
Speaker
That's 14 goals. All just, just in league play and league play. I'm pretty sure. I i don't think that can be right. Cause he hasn't scored in league play this year. So that would have 30 that 14 last season.
00:25:15
Speaker
He had 14 goals last season. Yeah. That seems high to me. I, where you? Where are you pulling that from? That's from FopMob. Well, okay, i mean, I do know that last year he and Denny Buonga were ripping it up. Like, he was scoring a lot of goals. Denny Buonga was scoring a lot of goals. They looked incredible together. Like you said, Denny Buonga looked happy again.
00:25:34
Speaker
But I do think that ah they have not been able to find that this year. And I think that the son never scoring thing that is, that's going to be an issue at some point in the same way that it would be and was an issue with Jesus Ferrer. That's 14 all comps, but 12 were last season.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, so he's not scoring right now, and their offense is also sputtering as a whole. So ah we'll see what happens with them. I'm i'm not i am definitely not reading a eulogy for LAFC just yet. They'll go and they'll beat Nashville this weekend. Don't worry. They got to go on the road to Nashville and then Seattle plays them after that. So we're going to learn a lot about them in their place in the Western Conference hierarchy. And Bwonga was suspended.
00:26:21
Speaker
So that was that was one thing from from last week. They just their defense looks like shit, too, which I think is part of the problem. Yeah, exactly. They gave up four goals to the Houston Dynamo. So Danny Bwonga not being suspended. That wouldn't have helped with that. yes But yeah.
Sounders' Striker Position Debate
00:26:35
Speaker
All right, let's take our first ad break and then be we'll be right back with our agenda check and number nine discourse. We'll be right back.
00:26:43
Speaker
Welcome back from an ad break that you definitely did not skip. Noah, let's get into our agenda check. And we got we just got one item for the week and we're going to center to the discussion around that. And this agenda is from Sounder Knaves. Shout out Sounder Knaves. He posted this on Blue Sky a few weeks ago, and I bookmarked it because I was like, that's ah that's a point that I want to talk about on the podcast at some point. So we're going to do it on this show because, Noah, the number nine discourse has been red hot, I think, with this team the last couple of weeks.
00:27:13
Speaker
The Jordan Morris, Danny Musavski, Osaze de Rosario platoon has not had someone step to the forefront and win the job for themselves. And there's been consternation.
00:27:25
Speaker
about that, but i wanted to I wanted to read this take from Sounder Knaves, get your thoughts on it, and then we can talk about it as it relates to the Seattle Sounders. But Knaves said, much like the modern NFL and running backs, I am very much of the opinion that having a single nine, unless he's just levels and levels ahead, isn't worth the expense, and it's better to platoon it with a few competent guys and spend your money at the wide forward positions. So I think this is something worth talking about because I think there's a conventional wisdom that to maximize your roster, it's a prerequisite that you need to have a Rui Diaz type profile of striker, a Sam Surridge type profile of st striker. You absolutely have to have that 15 to 20 goal number nine that you can put up top, Petar Musa, and play that role and produce like that by themselves.
00:28:16
Speaker
ah But what you're seeing Seattle do this season and dating back to last season is take this more platoon approach that Naves is talking about. Now they do have a lot of resources invested in the position with Jordan Morris. He's a designated player on a very high salary. But if you look at what's happening right now, you know he's playing kind of both positions. He's playing this kind of wide role and he's also playing at the number nine. And then they're also working Danny Musavsky and Osaze in there. With Moose, you've got like the veteran option who had 18 goals all competitions last year. So that's kind of your your proven vet. And then Osaze, you have your up and coming young guy that you've been developing who has a couple of goals in the last couple of weeks. so But before we get into Seattle's platoon specifically, Noah, what do you think of that notion that Naves is talking about? that Having that single number nine, like the Sam Surridge, like the Raul Rui Diaz, there are actually ways that you can sort of money ball around that, platoon it. You don't have to go crazy splashing resources on that spot. And that's kind of a way that you can get the same production, but allocate your resources to different areas of the roster. I've sort of been dating back to last year, kind of getting...
00:29:33
Speaker
on that page, that there are ways to do it where you don't have to necessarily be all reliant on one guy. And I think that could be a good thing. You just mentioned it. ah Nashville, without Sam Surridge in CCC, he's been injured like in the last couple weeks.
00:29:47
Speaker
They can't really score as well at all because they're not multifaceted enough to have the same level of offense without him. So what are your what are your thoughts on that just as the premise, first of all?
00:29:59
Speaker
I think the premise makes sense in terms of your two options that you have as an MLS club. Like this is such a uniquely MLS problem.
00:30:09
Speaker
Like you could spend, you can do it by committee with high spending, you know, 15 goal players if you have unlimited money to spend.
00:30:22
Speaker
I mean, I guess you could even put two DPs at the number nine and just like rotate them out or whatever if you really wanted to. But yeah, you kind of get into the position that Nashville struggles with or an LAFC struggles with when they have their two attacking DP players. And then when they're not performing, what is it? Jacob Schaffelberg taking the torch? Like, yeah, this the Sounders want to spread it around. they That's been fine for me.
00:30:50
Speaker
um I think it's it's it's also possible that the number nine thing works, right? Like when you're a really bad team and you have one guy who you can just lump it up to and they're gonna finish their chances, it's kind of a get out of jail free card. I mean, I'm i'm looking at like,
00:31:13
Speaker
you know, Benteke when he was at DC United. Were they good? No, but he would score 30 goals in a season because you lump it up to him. He could make the plays, the big body he scores. He's he's talented, right?
00:31:28
Speaker
The Sounders, I think could benefit from a more lethal, more technical finisher, more like, um you know, really like hard nosed goal scoring. really good type player. That's what you're describing. but do i think that you need to spend DP money to get that? Like, i'm I don't know. I don't know. i'm not I'm not a scout. I don't know the market.
00:31:57
Speaker
it seems like you could have gotten a Noah Ohio type for some sort of U22 deal, put him out there. But at this point, it's like you have Osaze, you have Danny Musavsky, and you have your player who you're spending the most money on in Jordan Morris.
00:32:16
Speaker
They've already made the decision. Like, it's it's this point where, like... unless one of them just starts scoring a shit ton goals, it's going to be by committee. And so it could be, it could be a, a matter of just what's working in the moment and being adaptable. Like if the summer comes around and the Sounders have the opportunity to sign someone at the number nine position, who's incredible,
00:32:43
Speaker
Will they? i Probably not, but like they they could, and then you can change your whole your whole mentality on that. So I don't know if that really answers your question. It's one of those things where
00:32:58
Speaker
They're scoring and it's working. So like until that's not happening, I'm not that offended by working as a team and giving Moose five and giving Osaze five and giving Jordan two.
00:33:12
Speaker
What I am kind of offended at is that you spent your money on a DP number nine being Jordan Morris and you don't seem to necessarily want to play him there.
00:33:26
Speaker
So... Where does the reevaluation come in of all of that? I don't know. Well, so that's the next thing I was gonna ask is how you kind of, how I guess, how we're feeling about the stock of this platoon right now. Because I think when you looked at that Sporting KC draw in the San Diego draw, that was, it was easy to look at those two results and be, especially the nature of how they took place with Seattle really generating 25 plus shots in both of those games, but only getting one goal. in each of those games. That's kind of how this discourse heated back up again. But if you look at ah this last game, you had Osase get a a game winner and then Moose scored in the game before that. He scored the goal against San Diego ah ah coming in as a substitute. So you're in a situation now. I actually compared this against some of the other nines throughout the ah the league and I'm going to keep track of this throughout the season and we're gonna find out but ah the the Jordan Morris Osazi de Rosario Moose Platoon now has six goals across all competitions this season and I am including CONCACAF Champions Cup in that and giving them credit for that if you're saying that those don't count you can argue with the wall okay you gotta look at all comps I think to actually get an accurate picture of what the production is like and what the performances are
00:34:48
Speaker
performances are like So those two goals that Moose scored against Vancouver in CCC, I'm giving him credit for those towards his total. So six goals, ah all comps. And that is not enough, I would say. That's not enough goal production from that position. But it's also not as far off from acceptable as I kind of as i think I felt like it was. Uh, you know, if you look at what San Jose is doing with Preston Judd, he's at nine goals. Brian White's at eight goals. Sam Surridge is up there. Golden boot leading with, uh, with like with 10, uh, bird around for long bird around That was a funny one to look at. He only has four goals. So like i think ah I think the platoon stock is actually on a bit of an upward trajectory. And you know I don't want to get too much caught up in recency bias because their their raw total right now is ah is not where you want it for that position. But when I look at seeing Osaze get a game winner, and Osaze is now at...
00:35:47
Speaker
seven goals across all competitions in about 24, 25 games dating back to last year, if you're factoring in his League's Cup performance, which I am. So I think for a developmental striker, that's actually a pretty good total, even if he started this season relatively slowly. But even this season, he's got a couple goals in the last few weeks now. And then you had Moose, who we'll talk about in the salary guide, but last year he was one of the best values in the entire league when you're looking at production to cost. was Preston Judding. Yeah, he was Preston Judding.
00:36:20
Speaker
Yeah, Preston Judd is apparently, you know i was saying he's the reincarnation of Chris Wondolowski, and we had to call her take issue with that. But I mean, Preston Judd has nine goals in 12 games this year. If Chris Wondolowski in an average season started the year with nine goals in 12 games, he would be like, yeah, that's like a, just a normal Chris Wondolowski year. And also ah aren't you just getting like, that's the quakes. That's their thing. They just find these guys, nondescript super draft picks. It's the exact trajectory. Wando also didn't really break out until he randomly broke out at age 26, 27, which is the age Preston Judd is like, it's it's happening. They're yeah doing it again. but I think anyway yeah what i read from this list and what I take from all of this kind of in hearing you and and ruminating on it a little bit is that Osaze and Moose are sick off the bench options. Like they are genuinely very talented super subs and they are worth their weight in gold because of that, right? No single nine on the Seattle Sounders had started and scored goal.
00:37:28
Speaker
No single, night not Jordan, not Osaze, not Moose, no one has started in the league and scored a goal. To me, what that tells me is you need a Preston Judd, a Brian White type, someone who is feasibly able to fit in a interesting salary range, but can finish, can be a starting player, and when they're not producing, you have your options of Osaze and Moose and Jordan Morris potentially,
00:37:58
Speaker
off the bench to perform because i think it's it's an important role to play But like, yeah, it's a little concerning when you don't have someone starting the match able to score.
00:38:14
Speaker
And why not think about adding a piece for that specific issue and then you already have your backup plans as well, we're gonna sub anyone in anyway and they're just a part of the platoon as a whole.
00:38:31
Speaker
So maybe, maybe, maybe here's my take. Maybe here's my take. You need to start Jordan Morris every single game. Play him. if he's If he's not doing well, 35th minute, whatever. Sub in Moose, sub in Osase, sub in whoever.
00:38:46
Speaker
45th minute, 55th minute, 60th minute. You're always subbing in a second striker. Why not do that? You're paying Jordan Morris to play that position, let him play that position, let him get comfortable. This was the entire issue that I added with Jesus Ferreira when they were bouncing him around, playing him 700 million places and he looked like shit and then they set him on that wing.
00:39:10
Speaker
They let him play on that wing and they let him play on that wing and tuck in as kind of a dual 10. He looked amazing. And so I would love if you're going to pay Jordan, if you're not going to move on from Jordan Morris or ask him to take a salary cut or ask him to do all this kind of stuff, you're spending the money.
00:39:30
Speaker
Just trust him a little bit. Just trust him a little bit that position. like So you're on the you're and on the Jordan starting number nine week in, week out train still? Yeah, because because here's my here's my reasoning, right? I would rather let him get that run out.
00:39:45
Speaker
You're paying him the money. And you already know Osazi and Moose can perform off the bench because they're doing that constantly. Jordan is not performing off the bench as well. Like, I just personally don't think so. So I would love to see him start that game, be that big body, wear down a defense, and something that a lot of people have pointed out, big body running at you when you're a tired defense, that's an opportunity to score a lot of goals.
00:40:12
Speaker
Both Moose and Osaze, big bodies running at a defense, that could be really successful. So I think it could just be a tactical shift, Would I love them to sign lethal striker?
00:40:27
Speaker
Sure. But who knows what's going to happen? If you can get production off the bench, does it really matter? Yeah, i will say I would say i feel better about the platoon after these last couple games. I think seeing Moose and seeing Osaze find the net, that was that was important. That was needed for the vibes.
00:40:49
Speaker
ah And now they have to keep it up but I definitely feel better about it now than I did a couple weeks ago when it really just felt like everything was up in the air. As for Jordan Morris and him starting at the number nine, I think the devil's advocate would be he's looked pretty good in that wide role. I feel like some of the best ball they've been playing in the last couple weeks has been when he is playing off of Moose or Osaze when they come in. And you know, especially in the San Diego game when Moose came on, it felt like the entire game changed. So I don't know, i think it's at least worth considering that there's something to that. I mean, there's I'm sure there's something to that, but like I'm saying, just start him in that nine role. Like, why is he not starting every match? You can slide him over, sub out a roth so sub about whoever's on the wing, and slide and slide ah Jordan Morris over.
00:41:43
Speaker
But I just, like, you gotta you gotta, that's what they did in that. That's what they did in that San Diego game, right? They started him, yeah and then slid him over. Does that not, like, I feel like that's the way you gotta play it.
00:41:56
Speaker
I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. Leave your thoughts on the number nine discourse in the comments. Here's the problem. Tell us what you think. You need to have three DPs playing on the field. The Seattle Sounders have not had that for That's not what they do. that's like They like we rock one, maybe two sometimes. Yeah, we need to we need to board more designated players on the field, please. All right, we are going to take another ad break, and we will be right back, and we're going to be talking and MLS salary guide.
00:42:28
Speaker
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00:45:21
Speaker
Welcome back from another ad break that you definitely did not skip. Noah, are you ready to talk some MLS salary guide? I'm excited for this. Show me the goddamn money, Ari. It's always exciting when
High Salaries and Player Value Analysis
00:45:31
Speaker
they put this out. One of the best days of the year. You get to go look up what everyone's making, seeing what the best values are, seeing who's overpaid, all that good stuff. But we're going to look at the Seattle Sounders salary guide, the roster, the numbers that these guys are on. And we're going to talk about who's earning their keep, who's maybe a little overpaid, who's more debatable. So I have organized them, Noah, into three different buckets here. I've got highest paid. I've got the ones that I considered to be the biggest bargains when I was going through it. And then got the ones marked off that I think are debatable. And we're going to talk about that allocation of these resources.
00:46:10
Speaker
But what I wanted to start off with was let's take a look at this top end of the roster, these guys that are on the highest numbers, and let's just go through them and we can talk about both whether they're ah you know the number that they're on is merited on the ah their quality and then whether you know they're living up to the value of it in terms of what they're providing on the field. but uh let i'll read off all the names first and when we'll go we'll just let's just go line by line let's just go play you can start with your win your your biggest numbers and then we'll just put an x next to them when we go buy it so we don't forget we've already read them okay is that right yeah that works uh so leading off and there are one two three four five six seven guys at the top end of the roster that i have marked off here making close to a million or over
00:46:56
Speaker
Yeah, exactly, close to a million or over. And to start off, we have, and this was honestly, I didn't know this player was on over a million dollars, but he is. Paul Areola is on $1.1 million. dollars ah So he is one of the highest paid players on the team. And obviously we all know what happened last year.
00:47:14
Speaker
He did his ACL in CONCACAF Champions Cup, so he didn't play at all last year. This year, he is working his way back into the mix. And I guess let's talk about what we've seen from Paul Areola. Is he looking like a player that is worth devoting that amount of resources to? Because I think we've talked about how excited we were that he was part of that Jesus Ferreira trade. I think we were both excited enough to get Jesus Ferreira on the Sounders. But then, oh, you throw Paul Areola on there with that? yeah Hell yeah. But now he's been on the team for over a year. he is on one of the biggest salary numbers on the team. ah
00:47:50
Speaker
How are you feeling about the the value and future value for the rest of the season on that right now? Paul are all at 1.1 is
00:48:03
Speaker
like he got injured. So I think it's a bit challenging to say, but in his role right now, especially with them refusing to play him at left back for some reason, it's a massive overpay. Like he's gotten,
00:48:18
Speaker
He's not played a full 90. Yeah, he's not played a full 90. The longest, the longest he's played is 72 minutes. And that was that T grace loss and none of the games except for that Vancouver Whitecaps game where he had the brace has he looked impressive in any sense of the word. I don't think he's looked bad, but he's just not looked impressive. He got eight minutes last night.
00:48:44
Speaker
I mean, at that number, you know, this is what's tough about soccer too, right? Like sometimes you get yourself in a position where you sign a player for a number that that on paper looks really good and then they don't work out, whether it's injury or people kind of bubble up on the roster and just become a lot better than you expect them to be and they pass that person, Paul Rothrock, for example. And I mean, i I hate to say that it's an overpay because I think that is genuinely his value. If you put him on another team and he was start, he could start in a lot of MLS teams. Do you think that, uh, like the theoretical healthy best version of him is worth that value? Yeah. Because I do think so. I do think so. And I think that it was definitely worth getting him. He's basically in his prime. He's 30. I mean, he's, I guess not technically his prime. prime, but he's 31. He is, he is like a known entity. He has experience in Liga Mechies. He's played a bunch of places. He has been national team player over 50 caps.
00:49:51
Speaker
I mean, i I feel like that's pretty solid value for a player that, you know, honestly, I'd love to see him play more. I'd love to see him play more, but I don't know. Yeah, where I'm at with Paul Areola is I think you know they clearly have not gotten the value out of that acquisition ah that they would have hoped because of the injury. It was a major injury. He missed an entire season. and so And they subsequently have not been getting that value either this season because they're kind of ramping him back up, and it's been a process getting him reacclimated. But I do think that there is –
00:50:26
Speaker
a decently solid possibility that he will start to return some of this value more as they get him healthier, as they get him more acclimated, as there's more opportunities to get him minutes and hopefully starts at some point.
00:50:38
Speaker
I don't think that it's totally out of the question that we could be looking at this later on in the season and being like, all right, now we're really glad that they got Paul Areola and that he's on this team. And I already did feel like that at one point this season yeah in CCC when he had that dominant game in Vancouver. It's still crazy to me he only played 60 minutes in that match. Yeah, like but he was awesome in that game. He looked like, like you even said it at the time, he looked like vintage Cholos, USMNT, Paul Areola in that game.
00:51:07
Speaker
And coming out of that game, I was like, oh, hell yeah, I'm so glad this guy is on the team. So I think that there is still a possibility that he could get back to that. They just need to actually work him back into the mix. But that is, you know, you look to start it off and you look at Paul Areola on 1.1. They have not ah gotten the value on that. And just because it's injury, that doesn't like change that fact. Well, and speaking of injury. Speaking of speaking of that exact ah thing,
00:51:36
Speaker
Pedro De La Vega next up on the list of highest paid players in the Seattle Sounders salary guide. He is on 1.3 this year. And, you know, I don't even think there's really all that much of a discussion to be had on this that we haven't already had ad nauseum. ah But like that is when we're, when we're talking about the things that could hold this team back or, you know,
00:52:03
Speaker
when they go to Tigris and they get shut out in the game and you're feeling like the chances were there and they just couldn't quite finish them. Or even this a little bit of this XG merchanting that we've seen go on in the last couple weeks with these draws against bad teams. ah Well, when you look down at the roster and your biggest your biggest game changer, your needle mover, your most talented player on $1.3 million dollars is just kind of have been perpetually unable to play. That's going to end up being a contributing factor to that. Now I, I'm of the mind that I, I just, ah look, I don't want to get into the whole thing again. i just want to see what happens when he gets back this year and, and to just to see if they can start to,
00:52:48
Speaker
get the value on this that they started to get, they actually did in League's Cup last year. He won MVP of that tournament and they got a trophy off it, so that's not nothing. But i am I'm excited to watch him play this year still. I don't know, maybe I'm the maybe on an i'm an on island with that. I'm the only one in the city of Seattle who still feels that way. But ah the other thing I would say is that I think that even if it doesn't work out and they never get their full return on the value for it,
00:53:16
Speaker
think it was worth the swing on the on the talent level I think his talent level is that far off the charts that even with the injury considerations when they were scouting him I would say if you have those injury considerations the ceiling if you're still gonna take the swing needs to be insane well they money balled it and they knew they knew they couldn't have gotten a player of that technical quality with no injury history. With a clean bill of health, yeah. Like, that is the whole thing. It was a gamble from the start. And that is part of my problem with the whole thing is, like, I like Pedro De La Vega's quality and talent and everything. Like, it's undeniable. It is undeniable. What deniable is that he's unable to play football ever.
00:54:02
Speaker
Like, that's, you know, it's... And the fact also that he's on a DP spot because of his transfer fee is just so, like, temple massager because you have...
00:54:17
Speaker
Pedro la Vega on 1.3 million, which is a TAM player. i think it's an overpay. I think you have a player who played in the Argentine league. He has a lot of quality, but like, come on, man. Like he was a young, unproven player on on a big salary and a big, the number 10 shirt and like all this stuff.
00:54:38
Speaker
okay, all right, you know, um if that's if you would have hit a home run, then we're not talking about this right now, but you didn't and we're here. so You have Pedro de la Vega on 1.3 million.
00:54:53
Speaker
If he had been performing the whole time, that salary makes sense. But you had Obed Vargas on $27 a day, and he was playing every match for like four seasons in a row and was equally as important in winning, to me, Leagues Cup as Pedro de la Vega was. So if If we're going to sit here and say Jordan Morris's contract was a really bad idea, they didn't even mean to give him a DP deal because he hit the escalators because they played him at the nine and blah, blah. Then we have to talk about Pedro de la Vega's deal was incredibly short-sighted and incredibly badly planned.
00:55:36
Speaker
And they should have done something by this point to rectify that. And they just still haven't. And so I think that's a shame. $1.3 million dollars for a player who has not played a single full season.
00:55:49
Speaker
You have to look at that and say,
00:55:53
Speaker
yeah they're there. They have not gotten the value from that side. It's the same reason that we're saying that about Paul Areola. It's like, well, when he comes back and he's playing a lot, that number may not feel so bad. But if you're looking at what we actually have, eh,
00:56:08
Speaker
I think with both Areola and De La Vega, ah there is there is still a chance that it could get recouped. i know you know some people probably are writing off that possibility, but we'll ah well we'll see what happens. like I do think like with De La Vega specifically, it's make or break when he gets back as far his status this. That's so much pressure. This is an aside, and i like I don't mean this as a negative thing to Petra De La Vega or anything, but like that feels like so much pressure.
00:56:37
Speaker
Like, I feel bad for the kid in that sense. Like, that is so much pressure to put on the shoulders of a guy who, I mean, has effectively had a good run in one tournament.
00:56:50
Speaker
I mean, that's that's a lot. That's really challenging. When he had a big challenge with that pressure coming in here and playing initially, like he did not look good and then he got injured and then it was this whole mental thing.
00:57:02
Speaker
Then he came back and he's like ah but he but he was able to lock in for that term. So I'm just saying, I wouldn't put that on my worst enemy, because that's got to be an insane amount of pressure i mean, it is a lot of pressure, but you know you're a you're a designated player in Major League Soccer, you're wearing number 10 for the Seattle Sounders, that that comes with pressure. So yeah I think it is it is part of the job to the extent, and I will say, man, like I continue to believe in the talent. And I just i think that if he actually can play consistent soccer this season, ah he can still it's still within the realm that he can change this discussion. Here's my question, though, right?
00:57:42
Speaker
So the whole point of signing him with the young DP role, this was back in the day. you basically your whole point was to get these first early years at a discount and then you either move him on because he's so good and you're not going to be able to pay his salary or you figure out a deal and you you pay to keep him right well these first few years this contract is going to be done soon i think this is the last year of the contract ah and they have an option
00:58:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think it might be ah last year and then an option. So you didn't take a discount at all. In fact, you paid for not a lot. If he does come back and ball out and perform.
00:58:27
Speaker
Does this deal look i somehow look worse?
00:58:32
Speaker
do you know what I'm saying? do you Do you hear what I'm saying there? Because he's not going to ask for that same number. He's not going to ask for less. And if you put him on Tam, you're going to have to move off someone like Paul Areola. And then at that point, Jesus Ferreira will probably take Rosinac's position. And, ross you know, like, that's a whole thing. But, like. Well, okay, so let's keep a let's keep the list pushing because we got we got a lot of names to get through here.
00:58:59
Speaker
I mean, do you hear what I'm saying? Do you feel like that's... i don't really I don't really get what you're saying. Okay, like you have him at a discount in his first few years because you signed him young. And then if he ends up balling out, you're like, wow, we proved it, but you didn't ever get that discount because he didn't really play. And then you're going have to resign him at a higher wage. it's It's a question of whether you want to keep him and re resign him when he does get to the end of the contract, which I think is going to that that that is going to be determined by what it looks like and what happens when he when he gets back. Like you're going to have to gauge that decision.
00:59:34
Speaker
based on information that we don't have yet, I guess I feel like. Sure. If he balls out, this is my last question on it. If he balls out, would you want to re-sign him? If he's balling out and he he wants a higher wage, would you re-sign It's just so tough because the the talent is so evident. Six goals, four assists in the second half of the season.
01:00:02
Speaker
if he has that. yeah It's just so hard because of like the injury scare. But like for me, if if he goes out there and he plays like that and he looks like League's Cub Pedro de la Vega, it would be pretty hard to... like to move off that for me, just because i think I think it's a talent level that's hard to find. I think that's maybe where we diverge, or some other people some people think that it's just like, oh, well, you know, you can just go out and find another player that's exactly as good as him. And I don't think it's necessarily a given that you're gonna be able to find that. I think that's how good he is, man. That's like that's what I think of his actual ability, so.
01:00:42
Speaker
ah But I mean, you're, you're not wrong in that is a very tough decision to have to make. No, what next name we got on the list, Albert Rusnak, the highest paid player on the Seattle Sounders. I'm sure a lot of people are going to love to hear that. I mean, I think we already all kind of knew that, but yeah, he is on $2.6 million dollars this year. That is the biggest number for the Seattle Sounders in the salary guide.
01:01:08
Speaker
A lot of people do that what would argue that he is demonstrably not worth that. Noah, what you think? I like Albert Rusnak. I don't know. I, I think he's had, I think he's had a start of a season in which there are, have been moments where he has looked like what the group of individuals that we like to call the brigade say that he looks like, but even then he still has three goals, three assists and seven starts in 10 matches. So that's six goal contributions across 10 matches.
01:01:47
Speaker
I mean, he's nothing if not consistent. Like, I don't really know what to say. Like, he has 41 career goals for the Sounders. Say what you will about the penalty merchant shit. But, like, he played out of position for his first two seasons here. He's played well at the 10.
01:02:03
Speaker
Yes, maybe he's getting edged out currently by a younger, just as talented player. But, like... I really don't see why he is some sort of like he he's been healthy. He has played. He has done what you want out of a designated player. So to me, this is way less offensive, especially when you look across the league at what other people are getting paid in that same tax bracket. And you're like, oh,
01:02:33
Speaker
Actually, no, you're kind of a good deal. You're kind of a good deal and you're healthy. So I am not offended by it. Although I will say this, he's playing on a contract year.
01:02:45
Speaker
I do not think the Sounders will bring him back next season unless he takes a pay cut. I do not think that he will be on this team next season because I don't think he will take a pay cut. And I hope he is. i hope he does take a pay cut.
01:02:59
Speaker
ah But I don't think the Sounders should go and extend their option next season unless he does want to renegotiate a contract. Because I think keeping him on a lower senior contract, kind of a JAP situation, is great.
01:03:14
Speaker
If not, I will have been incredibly happy with that designated player signing. But it's just it is time to kind of shuffle the deck. Yeah, I think the pro-Rusnak argument is based on consistency and reliability. Like, it is not necessarily as easy to find as some would have you to believe, to to find players who can just get you 10 goals, 10 assists,
01:03:43
Speaker
like clockwork every single year and you don't have to even really think about it. You can just write that in in pen. And that is what he does. That's what he provides it ah for you. Like if you go through his whole MLS career dating back to his time with real Salt Lake, you have multiple other 10 and 10 seasons. This guy's had a 14 assist season in MLS. So so the stat sheet productivity is all there for what you want out of your designated player.
01:04:10
Speaker
ah And like even, you know, even the penalty merchant stuff, part of what you're paid a designated player salary to do is when you win penalty kicks, you go up to the spot and you freaking make them. And that's what he, that's what he did in the last game. And that's what he's done pretty I think he's only missed one or two penalties since he's been the primary taker. for this team. So that's actually, to me, the fact that he's the penalty kick taker is a point in his favor. His reliability and consistency with that has been good. It's like peace of mind. I don't really have to worry that much about who's taking the penalties. But also, I think the other biggest thing that you pointed out, the durability.
01:04:49
Speaker
You know, what it whatever you want to say about him, man, he is available, he is in there week week out, he's producing on the stat sheet, and like I said, he's is going to just he is going to get you 10 and 10. Like, he's easily on pace to do that again this year. He's probably, he's he's ah at least 10 goals and pushing 15 primary assists every single year. So to me, is that worth $2.6 million dollars to just know that you're going to have 10 and 10 from that position?
01:05:17
Speaker
I think so, man. And you also you also know that he's actually going to be out there and playing. So yeah, like when I saw 2.6 for Roostneck, I was like, I know that's going to be controversial. It's not that controversial to me. Like he is, he's kind of the pillar of consistency. He's the $2.6 million dollar player because look what he did at T-Grace at home.
01:05:37
Speaker
Yeah. The two goals. Like, I don't really know what more you want. Like to me, i said this before, but like his performance in that game, that's basically what I expect from Malbert Rusnak every week. And that's what he delivers most of the time. You know, not every single week, but pretty damn consistently. You don't really get the stat sheet production that he's had with, without that. So, Completely agree. Okay. So we're on the same page with that. I'm sure that's going to be a popular take. and I think normal people who who do like go outside a little bit are in agreeance. They're like, yeah, we're snack. Okay, whatever. You got the Among Us tattoo. Sure. What the hell?
01:06:17
Speaker
But I think there's a group of individuals that he just, he tilts. They'll just never admit. Which is okay. that's yeah We all have our thing. It's fine. We all have our special interest. It's okay. ah Next up, Jesus Ferreira on 1.8, not a designated player, but he is on a big number. Noah, how do you feel about the value that is being returned on Jesus Ferreira on 1.8 million dollars? I'll start by saying that ah I think the people would point out to the to people who would point to the lack of goal production would actually have a point and I have acknowledged that like as good as his playmaking has been and as good as his assistant production has been you want to see more goals from a player with his track record ah but i I've been encouraged with what I'm seeing on that front especially in the last few weeks he he's looked a lot more dangerous in general just in terms of getting in position to shot to shoot and taking shots and then he also he has a couple goals. And that goal in in this last game against San Jose, the pick 60, I mean, that was the FC Dallas Jesus Ferreira that we were talking about when they made this trade for Jesus. And I do feel like you know people have been giving us and giving me a hard time for it from the standpoint of that he's not scoring goals. And I've been i've been saying, like no, just wait, just just wait. and like But to see him have that moment where he just became FC Dallas Jesus Ferrer again and made that run and made that finish, I felt validated. I was like, ha, see, see, that's, that's what he can do. That's what he used to do all the time. Then he became the Steve Nash on this team, point guard assist guy, which is great. Like I love his playmaking and all that, but like that, that pick 60 men that he can do that type of stuff. And I just want to see him do that stuff more. I think he's going to start doing that stuff more. And once he does start doing that stuff more, this 1.8 is going to look like a bargain. That's how good he is. Jesus Ferreira is the same age as Petro de la Vega.
01:08:19
Speaker
I think we forget that. I think we forget that we think, whole pet Petro is just- He's been in the league for like 10 years. if Petro's just, he's just a little guy. He's just a little guy. He's a prospect. Like, yeah, we put a little money, but he's so good. Like, he might, he might do this. He might, bro, we got Jesus Ferreira, bro.
01:08:36
Speaker
We got Jesus Ferreira. This dude's been doing it in the league since he was 16. He scored on his debut for FC Dallas. This man has a father. A father who was an MLS legend. FC Dallas wouldn't be who they are without David Ferreira. Let's be real. Okay?
01:08:53
Speaker
I'm a Jesus Ferreira truther. I'm a Jesus Ferreira lifer. And you know what? I kind of hope that he loves this club so much that he'll stay here forever. I agree, man. Because Jesus Ferreira. he's the Resnack-era parent, like, people aren't going like that. I would be so down. That would be so good, dude. I'm sorry. The number he's on is perfect. I think it's perfectly situated. I think it's what he deserves for his pedigree. I think that this has been great for him to come here and to be able to find kind of a different position And, you know, i i don't know what this, like, yeah, he could score more goals, sure, what the hell, but he's also doing that. Like, in his last four or five matches, he's hit this different level. He is kind of...
01:09:35
Speaker
just like moving forward in his own development now that he feels settled in a place he knows his teammates and that's what I was always saying it might be a little rough patch here and there but Jesus Ferreira man he's durable he's he performs and I mean i don't think that price tag is too crazy at 1.8 especially if you know he continues to show up but I I think a lot of his game is not on the stat sheet.
01:10:02
Speaker
A lot of his game is not on the stat sheet at all. And so when you have him out there, this team just looks better. It's just elevated. There's just, there's better runs. There's better passes. There's better everything. He is defense. He plays defense. He is awesome. I'm, I love Jesus Ferreira and i think this wage it it makes a lot of sense. Honestly, it does. Like, I think it it's it's fitting. It is interesting what um what another one of these players is on who is almost more important to the team comparatively, though. So this is an interesting note. Getting him on this team, that was one of the sickest trades ive ever, dude. It was awesome. And I'm glad that... It was a fleece. I'm glad that our... Where's Leo Chu? Yeah. I'm glad that our initial excitement over it is it feels like it's starting to pay off in a way that it really didn't last year. I think he had a good year last year, but like he didn't there wasn't those moments, those magic moments that we saw in this San Jose game.
01:11:02
Speaker
yeah We didn't have as much of those, especially as it pertains to the to the goal production. But I mean, I agree. I think that's a fine number for Jesus. I think he's going to keep getting better too. Yeah, agreed. I think he's going to start scoring more goals. I think the floodgates are open. He's got the confidence working. He saw the ball go in the net after that great run. So he's opening Disney cards on stream.
01:11:22
Speaker
Life is good. Next up, Noah, we got Jordan Morris. How much is he on? he is on 2.3 coming in just behind Albert Breastnack. The second highest highest paid player on the team. i Got one goal, two assists so far this year. he did yeah he had seven goals last year, but he did miss most of the season with injury. Noah, how are you feeling at this juncture about Jordan Morris on 2.3? Um, um, ah um
01:11:57
Speaker
I can't remember how long his contract is, ah but, um, listen, I love Jordan. Um, he's, he's a great guy and okay. His contract is through 2027. So this year and next. So this year and next guaranteed that, that spot guaranteed that amount of money.
01:12:17
Speaker
ah
01:12:21
Speaker
I, I like, I don't want to even want to talk about it. Like it's one of those things where it's like wow, you were a legend and you probably were underpaid for a long time and maybe this is making up for it. And like, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, I respect my elders and, and also, um,
01:12:36
Speaker
He hasn't looked better than when he signed his DP agreement. Like, he's kind of looked worse. ah so I think he's looked the same, but that's just me. I don't know. maybe i don't think I think you can see that he's getting older.
01:12:53
Speaker
like i Like in what regard? in his In his speed, in his pace, in his determination a little bit. Like I think that there's a bit of a bump in that clearly he even shared he was struggling with the game mentally. And you know, i think it's just it is too much money at this point. Like it's just it is too much money.
01:13:18
Speaker
If Rusnak is in pen 10 and 10 for 2.6 and everyone on the damn world is like, oh, that's too much money. I mean, we have to look at this Jordan Morris thing and say 2.3 and occupying a DP spot.
01:13:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's at least not advisable. Yeah, I think, the unfortunately, the discussion with Jordan Morris is going to be colored by the injury issues, and much the same as Pedro De La Vega. like They're not getting the value on that number because of the injury issues.
01:13:53
Speaker
I'll make the pro-Jordan Morris argument just in principle, which is that... um Like there's an anti-Jordan Morris sentiment that's like, all right, even if he's pretty good, he's not like a huge volume goal scorer in the way like we talk about with Rui Diaz and Sam Surridge. Yeah, he only has 50 goals. He's never going to be the guy that gets you that consistent 15 to 20 goals in a season like these lead the line number nines that we're talking about. But what he will do,
01:14:22
Speaker
is guaranteed, if if healthy, obviously, okay? If healthy, he will guaranteed get you 10 to 15 every single time, like clockwork, with the exact same consistency and reliability as Albert Rusnak produces. And so, again, I think that is a that's a valuable attribute, that type of reliability and that type of consistency. And playoff Jordan Morris and playoff Jordan Morris 11 playoff goals. He is statistically the leading goal scorer of any MLS active player in the playoffs. So you have you have the get big game pedigree, which I think people don't score in both Minnesota legs by the way. to He's proven in the playoffs. he He's won two MLS cups as a leading member of a Seattle Sounders attack and you like like even with how he's played this year i know there's been a couple frustrating moments where it feels like he's had open looks that he didn't finish I've watched him play enough soccer to know that if he just if he keeps getting in those positions we're gonna look down at the end of the year assuming he gets his full compliment a minute minutes from here on out We're to look down at the end of the year and he's going to have between 10 and 15 goals.
01:15:29
Speaker
No question about it. So from that standpoint, like I, I, him being on a big number, I think isn't as like a ill-advised as people portray it. It's just, he'll just, the, the, the injury situation is like 33. He'll be 33 his thirties. He's 31. He'll be 33 when this contract is done. I mean, that's,
01:15:52
Speaker
And Albert Rusnak is that age too. So that's the thing. That's stuff that's going to have to be dealt with. A couple of the guys that are on these numbers are getting up there. Yeah. So I, it's tough. I like Jordan and you're paying him that much money. So you should be playing Kim.
01:16:07
Speaker
You should be playing him at the night. It's my take. ah Christian Roldan, no I ever heard of him. Yeah. $1.7 million. dollars That is ah the easiest money you will ever spend in opinion. Such a steal. That's what I was trying to say about like Jesus is on 1.8 and is making more money than Christian Roldan, which to me is, Christian, you might need a better agent, and brother. I...
01:16:31
Speaker
I don't know because you are paid. Just pay him whatever. Yeah. Like i just pencil in whatever he wants. He would be a designated player on any other team. Yeah. Like just simple as that. Like I don't really know what he's literally a U S men's national team player.
01:16:46
Speaker
he he also does like literally everything. Yeah, like he is any other team. I'm telling you, any other team. If someone asked you, like, what does Christian Roldan do for the Seattle Sounders? My answer would be, like, literally whatever you want name anything, and he does it. Whatever whatever you want, man. I'll pay $1.7 million for that any
Sounders' Roster and Financial Strategy
01:17:04
Speaker
day of the week. like All right, Noah, last one of the highest but highest paid guys, and then we'll ah speed through these bargains at the end because we're running a little short on time. Sure.
01:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, Yamar at 982K. Not quite a milli, but he is on a very big number ah dealing with injury this season. Once again, like theme with a lot of these guys, if healthy, i think that is like about how valuable he is. And this is his last year on his contract. Yeah. So I think this is like kind of not that big. I think I think.
01:17:35
Speaker
seeing what he has done over the past like length of this contract, it makes total sense. Like you pay center back ah a good I mean this is probably one of the gamers probably one of the better paid center backs in MLS honestly and i i think you forms you're seeing more teams have like a standout Delcow center back that they put on a number like yes and I think that is what what every team should be doing you need to replace it here's what I'll say replacing him at that number is impossible so
01:18:08
Speaker
I mean, you, you probably slot Tino Lopez in there after this and listen, I love Tino, but he's he's also not Yamar. Like I, I think Tino will be fine and good and eventually could get to the level of Jackson and and Yamar. But like, I think there's, Yamar is just kind of a different physical presence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:28
Speaker
But all right, Noah, let's talk about. ah Well, actually, real quick, before we talk about the bargains, like having gone through that list now, what are your thoughts on where things stand with the top end of the roster? Because my kind of broader takeaway from this is, well, ah my my broad takeaway is that you have guys that based on their quality as players,
01:18:50
Speaker
just purely that and nothing else i don't see anyone who i think isn't worth the number that they're getting and you know i know the the rusnak people won't like that but i think everyone on here is pretty much fairly valued even jordan morrison albert rusnak for what they provide but you just have a situation where a lot of them are unavailable because of injuries which is not ideal I would love to see Paul Arreola under a million. I'd love to have seen Pedro de la Vega under a million.
01:19:21
Speaker
And that's kind of it. that Those are my only two arguments of like salary range. Like I, otherwise it's kind of negligible. So we're i you know we're higher on the top end of the roster than some, I guess. like I feel like that's a pretty good group. they're also not spending a lot of money. like If you compare this to their entire roster is basically less than Sun is getting paid. So like I don't really know. Yeah, I have these highest paid guys in the entire league like listed below here. And like there are guys there like you know Forsberg, Surridge, and Ricky Pooge are all on numbers that are over $5 million. dollars
01:19:58
Speaker
So there's no one on this roster that's like that. So I think that's honestly, I mean, it's it's good maneuvering by them from that perspective. But ah all right, Noah, let's look at these ah these bargains because I think this is where you really can see how this team has been successful despite the injuries that they've had to their designated players, Pedro De La Vega and Jordan Morris. But like, there's just some good stuff here. Snyder Ronell a 98K guaranteed compensation. They need to sign him tomorrow. They need to sign him to a U22 deal tomorrow. He should be making whatever it is, 180, whatever. Sign him tomorrow. Extend him.
01:20:34
Speaker
Extend him now. Yeah, absolutely. Tino is on 88K, so that's a great deal. yep And then you get down to, you got Moose, who's now on 712K.
01:20:46
Speaker
Last year, Moose was on five-something, and he had 18 goals all comps. Like, I'm sorry, that is objectively one of the best values, production-wise, for goal scoring in the entire league, when you're just talking about how much...
01:21:00
Speaker
money he was making compared to the amount of goals he scored. That's ridiculous. That's like as good as you're gonna do from that perspective. So I actually think Moose on 712K is pretty much pretty much fair, assuming that he continues to produce like he did last year, which ah he hasn't really so far this year. But I don't know, I feel like Moose has played pretty well this year. He's like maybe i don't know. It's a two year contract.
01:21:26
Speaker
I think for a backup striker where he overperformed his salary. and is still scoring, like, cool. 712K feels right. Like, it feels i think feels right. Excellent value. And yeah, you have him for two seasons on that number, and you have a club option for the next season. so Jackson Reagan's only on 625K. That's a freaking bargain. He's going to get pair of those. Paul Rothrock with his contract. Paul Rothrock took...
01:21:55
Speaker
I mean, i don't know. I think this is the biggest bargain on the whole team. it's so check and vas It's such a bargain. It's crazy to think about that. He was one of the guys who was on like a hundred and something K as recently as last year. And honestly, if you want the biggest reason why Seattle was able to withstand the Pedro de la Vegas situation, it's because they had Paul Rothrock for the last two, three years on a hundred K. And now this year on He's producing at like that like a De La Vega level. He has four goals this year for five hundred and twenty five k It's an insane deal. Pedro should cut him a check.
01:22:29
Speaker
Pedro should cut him a $500,000 check because he saved his ass. He is still one of the biggest bargains in the league after getting a five times pay raise. Andrew Thomas is only on two hundred and fifty That's my biggest like that is the biggest bargain.
01:22:45
Speaker
That is by far the biggest bargain in my opinion. Does he not look like he could go play for the U.S. Benz national team right now? Yeah. Like, 252K for an incredible goalkeeper?
01:23:00
Speaker
that's what that's kind of That's where you want the goalkeeper number in that 200 to 300, 400K. I think any more than that, you're probably devoting more than you need to. Designated but design't any team, dude.
01:23:15
Speaker
Designated team. But yeah, no, Andrew Thomas on two hundred and fifty two k is great. You got King Pete and KKR both coming in at one hundred and thirteen k KKR at 113, phenomenal. yeah So like this area of the roster, man, I really would put it up against pretty much anybody. And you you got you got the the scouting and the player development to to thank for that. Like with guys like KKR and Peter Kingston and even, you know,
01:23:43
Speaker
Rothrock, Jackson Reagan, Snyder B, all these guys to one extent or another are guys that you've developed internally. And you're you're getting such good value that you can have injured DPs. And if you were able to win League's Cup last year, take down Messi in the process, and you're seven, one, and three to start this year, averaging over two points per game. with Jordan Morris and Pedro de la Vega injured for a lot of that you go through these numbers I mean, i don't want to ah Gloss over the credit that Moose deserves for that too man because that was a big reason they were able to withstand the Jordan Morris situation so ah Anyway, how are you how are you feeling about the overall just ah health of the roster? i think it's fine. I think i'm I didn't see... Where's... ah I don't have everyone on. Okay, okay. Yeah, I know. I mean, like Kim Kihee seems like a bad... I was but not. that's He's on 113. He's on a senior minimum. People are like, oh, I don't really care. I just don't think yeah just I'm not. Listen, I don't think what i I don't think they should have resigned him. That was my take. He took i was my he took so much less money. Like he just wanted to hang out like, all right. Like, you know what? I can respect that. He wanted to chill. 113 came in like i that to the kids. that's Loki, not a living wage and Yeah, which is actually kind of funny. Like he's low key, not able to pay. The Kim situation bothers me less. do you think of Hassani on a hundred 828 K? Because I think it's higher than I would have. It seems it's a lot more than I would have actually given that. Well, that's like, so that's a number that you pay for a plus player, not a replacement level yeah player. Yeah. Paul Rothbrook on 500, and then you have Hassani Dawson on 800. I think that number for Hassani is honestly reflective of how well he played for Minnesota for most of his career there. There were the injury concerns, but 828 for him for the role that he's had so far this year, it seems high. He did he was out with the concussion briefly, so we should acknowledge that. Fair. Like he hasn't gotten like a full complement of his role, but... Even if that is like a slight overpay, I don't think it's egregious. It's not like, oh that is that's crazy. I mean, I guess, like, I don't know For his experience, maybe, but, like, Danny Musavski is making less money than him. And to me, Danny Musavski earned – was better than Hazani Dodson has been in any of his best seasons last season yeah on a contract year. You got Osaze coming in at 315K, which – That's fine with me. That's fine with me. I think his stock is trending up in the last couple weeks. So that –
01:26:19
Speaker
it's some It's some good stuff. I feel like the roster is in a good place, but there are decisions coming up on these designated players. Listen, there's nothing on this roster that's like we're nitpicking by hundreds of thousands.
01:26:30
Speaker
Let's go talk about Lionel Messi making $28.3 million DePaul making million. like That team is not performing better than Seattle this year. No, I'm not going to worry about it. You can want Seattle to spend that amount of money, and it's fine, but it would not guarantee success. Roster spots are a different story. If you want to talk about roster spots, we can talk about roster spots. But spend, salary, think they're pretty prudent. And you've got to be when you have no money. Some of these numbers on the league wide list, man, like it's just Bamba making 5.5. I love Bamba, but Bamba making 5.5 is crazy. I don't think he's earning that, but like, dude, Chucky Lozano is on the books for San Diego FC at $9.33 million this year, and he's not even playing for them. That is like, you want to know why San Diego is regressing? That's probably a big reason why. I'm so glad Seattle's not in a situation like that. And you, if you, when you make signings like that, that is a risk that you run, man. They don't all work out. And Chucky's a perfect example that. He looked like he was working out, but now he's on the books for $9 million, not even playing for them. And then even like this, the, you got Miguel Almiron on 7.8. You got Emil Forsberg on six. I think he's been pretty good, but not that good for the, the Red Bulls. So they literally have Julian Hall, who is quite literally a child performing better than Forsberg. Yeah, probably on like 84. And it's crazy. It's actually crazy to me that Forsberg would continue to stay with that team and not run away because it is filled with children. And he famously did run away from his wife and kids. So it is just like we should think about that.
01:28:14
Speaker
um The last the the last two kill li ono one nine point three three. a He's just like chill and collecting a paycheck is so sick. That's crazy. and But I'm the wrong being on seven point eight is also like i'm like, God, I'm just so glad they didn't do it. Glad I'm not Atlanta, dude. Yeah. The last thing I was looking at, too, was just like the number nines from around the league and how I was looking at the best teams.
01:28:35
Speaker
in the league and how they handle the number nine position because we've been talking about that so much with seattle san jose they're bell cowing preston judd at 250k and he is up there with the golden boot leaders so they're another example i'm so glad they didn't get rothrock dude rothrock would have been oh my god that team would have been unstoppable unstoppable more than they like already have been if you put rothrock with this who's their gm preston judd uh i can't remember Okay, all I'm going say is if he doesn't win. It's Chris something. Yeah, if he doesn't win executive of the year whatever, I'm going to storm MLS HQ. Chris Leach. Yeah, Chris Leach has put together a fucking roster, man. And shout out to Bruce Arena too. I mean, he's got those guys balling. I don't know. They did a great job. Vancouver is now up their spending 1.6 on Brian White. Good value. That is good value. And that's less than what Seattle's spending on Jordan Morris. But that is not like a super... Brian White for 1.6 is not going to be on this list with all these other guys on these huge numbers. That's just a different way to do it. I put Sun Hyung-min on here because LAFC doesn't really have a traditional target number nine other than Jeremy Obobese, and he doesn't really count right now in this discussion. Brian White and Morris are basically the same age. my God. I want Brian White instead. I think they're honestly pretty similar, but whatever. mean, yeah, that's fair. Well, actually, they're not because he's played 197 matches and scored 87 and Jordan Morris is
01:30:13
Speaker
That's pretty much the exact numbers that he has in his career. Really? Yeah. Okay. I think, or I guess he's, I think MLS, it depends if you're talking all comps. I think that was all comps. If it's all, he has 50, he has, uh, no, George Morris. He's the, he has 80. Oh, where, i don't know. Maybe, maybe this is sorry. This is MLS. MLS. mls Yeah. He has a 50 plus 42. So 92. Okay. So they were literally even, they're pretty, they're pretty similar.
01:30:38
Speaker
ah Sun Han-min is on $11 million for two goals. That's where I think there's a pretty big difference between him and the Ferreira situation because Ferreira is not a designated player and there's other guys on the team who can soak up that goal scoring load theoretically whereas I feel like they kind of need Sun for $11 million to be providing more than that but I don't know. And then you've got your Sam Surages and Bertrames where they spent six mil, four mil, or they're spending that on them. That's the numbers that they're on. But those guys are not outproducing the more money ball type guys by that much. So I don't know. If Bertrames was playing like he was playing
01:31:27
Speaker
3.8 actually doesn't sound that crazy, but he's just not that guy. He's little better, but like he the the Morris Osaze Moose platoon has outscored Berneramme this year.
01:31:38
Speaker
it had for half the cost it has for not even a cause they spent $15 million dollars on the transfer fee for him too. So, you know, I'm not saying I'm just saying, but, uh, all right, Noah, that's all I
Conclusion and Next Game Preview
01:31:51
Speaker
had for the night. I think we ripped a pretty long one there. So I think we can call it right there. thank you all as always for tuning in, looking forward to getting back to Lumen on a Saturday for this LA galaxy game. We'll see if Seattle can keep it rolling before this world cup break. Uh,
01:32:06
Speaker
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01:32:26
Speaker
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01:32:40
Speaker
Get yourself a bottle today. All right. We're going get out of here on that. We will see you all on Saturday for the post-game live. Until then, we out. Bye. I'm sorry.