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Jake Zivin Talks Legacy of Timbers vs. Sounders Rivalry
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MLS and Apple TV commentator Jake Zivin talks with Lobbing Scorchers Ari Liljenwall about the upcoming Seattle Sounders vs. Portland Timbers rivalry match.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a production of Just Once Media.
Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
Contact: lobbingscorchers@justoncemedia.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme Setting
00:00:00
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Quite the scorcher today. Well it's gonna be scorcher.
Interview with Jake Zivin
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Lobbing Scorchers. Folks, the World Cup is almost over. MLS is back on Thursday with a jam-packed slate of rivalry week action. And we have a heck of a guest to join us to talk about it here. ah You've almost certainly heard his voice on Apple TV, where he's one of the lead play-by-play broadcasters. He's called some of the biggest matches in league history, from MLS Cup to the League's Cup Final, the MLS All-Star Game, you name it. Before joining Apple TV, he was also the TV voice of the Portland Timbers for seven seasons. So there's probably nobody better to help us preview this Seattle-Portland matchup on Thursday and the MLS restart than this man right here. It's one of the best in the business, Jake Zivin. Jake, thank you so much for tapping in. We really appreciate the time. Uh, first of all, how you doing? How you feeling?
World Cup Memories and Seattle's Sports Culture
00:01:10
Speaker
World cup's almost over and we're almost, we're back to our ah bread and butter, which is major league soccer. Uh, how was the world cup for you? And, what do you think of the season getting back started here? Man, I'm, I'm feeling great. Uh, I've had massive FOMO of, of not working for the past seven weeks because the world cup has been so thrilling and I'm just like, want to get on a broadcast because it is very enjoyable. Uh, So I'm very excited, very, very ready to to get back, so to speak. And the World Cup's been being amazing. I mean, I think, you know, nobody knows that better than the people in Seattle.
00:01:41
Speaker
I was there for the Belgium game. Obviously not a great game, but man, the the city walking around downtown and the you know, five hours before the game. It was unlike any sporting environment I've ever been in. It was, it was just incredible. The Belgium U S game, I should say, because I know Belgium, I think played three times and yeah at Lumen field. i did, I did not go to the others.
00:02:03
Speaker
ah But man, it was, it was wonderful. So the world cup has been fantastic.
MLS Rivalries: Seattle vs. Portland
00:02:07
Speaker
And I hope this momentum continues now on into the the rest of the MLS season. I think it will. And, I'm excited to get back to it. What a better, you know, no better way to get back to it than Portland, Seattle. There's a reason why and MLS scheduled this game, right? There's six games scheduled. They wanted the marquee games and you can't schedule six marquee games. You can't schedule one marquee game without it being Seattle, Portland in there.
00:02:30
Speaker
Exactly. I think that's a a beautiful segue because, you know, I've been joking around with people about how the end of the World Cup, I'm like, man, I got i got to go back to MLS now after going to games like this. But like the reality is this is, I mean, this is what we do. Yeah. And to have the these rivalry games coming right out of the gate here, it's going to be awesome. It's going to be a spectacle. And, you know, I'm sure I'll get no disagreement from you, but Seattle, Portland, best rivalry in MLS bar
The Intensity of Portland-Seattle Rivalry
00:03:00
Speaker
none. I'm someone who has a lot of respect for Trafico and what they've got going on in New York and in Florida. But, you know, I was ah I was talking to some of the the guys. I interviewed ah Diego Chara and Diego Valeri this week for my written. preview content and i talked to jackson reagan out at sounders training today as well and uh you know they all made what i thought was the case that i always make which is that the history behind a game like this is really what separates it you know you can't manufacture bad blood that dates back to 1975 you really can't and these two teams have it and uh it's going to be exciting to see them play their first match of the season here in seattle on thursday ah but jake i wanted to start
00:03:41
Speaker
with the Portland Timbers. Cause I think it's interesting times with the Portland Timbers. And obviously, you know, you're a national broadcaster now, but you were the Portland broadcaster for seven seasons. So I'm sure you're still tapped into what's going on
Portland Timbers' Transition and Challenges
00:03:53
Speaker
down there. And we have been to as well, because you have a situation where you've got a team that just had a coaching change. Phil Neville is out. The team has had a long break to regroup. And now the first match ah back after this break is in Seattle. From your perspective, where's this club at mentally and what are you most interested to see in this kind of start of the post Phil Neville era? Yeah, I think this is the most interesting moment for the Portland Timbers.
00:04:22
Speaker
I'll say since maybe the end of their second season ever when they had parted ways with John Spencer and Gavin Wilkinson, who was the GM at the time, took over as the interim coach and they hired Caleb Porter, but he wasn't going to start till the next year. And it was kind of this limbo situation. Obviously that that hiring of of Caleb Porter worked out and and you know the the Timbers kind of went off to about a decade of success from there under multiple managers. um But this feels like the most kind of time of unknown since then, I would say, because even, you know, you had Caleb and then to Gio and it was a similar core of of players. You mentioned the two Diego's. And then even at the end of Gio's time, it still felt like there was a core there that we' we're familiar with and Phil Neville coming in. But it, from a results perspective, right, the past two and a half years have not been up to the standards. Then you go before that of the Portland Timbers. And so I'm really curious to see where it goes from here.
00:05:22
Speaker
And this game I mean, what a way to just get right into the new era of Portland Timbers soccer. It's going to be Jack Cassidy, who is the interim coach, who is the T2 head coach on the bench on Thursday. He's not going to be the the permanent head coach. Timbers are in the process of of hiring somebody. Reports are that that is imminent. But no matter when it happens, Jack Cassidy is going to run the team on Thursday. And what an opportunity for him. What a moment for him going into Lumen Field. ah
00:05:53
Speaker
to take on Seattle. I mean, it's ah it's wild. And it is now it's quite a contrast because for years you had two clubs that were both relatively
Seattle's Derby Struggles Against Portland
00:06:02
Speaker
stable, right? I mean, the Timbers had their stable core and you know only two managers over 10 years. and And there's no more stable team and organization in Major League Soccer than the Seattle Sounders with the core there and with Brian Schmetzer. But now it's not that. It's a team that feels a little unstable against the stability of of Seattle.
00:06:21
Speaker
I'm really interested to see how the players, the Portland Timbers players respond in this game, um you know, in this kind of state of limbo. It's a very interesting game, very interesting game and a very interesting time for Portland.
00:06:34
Speaker
It's a good chance for them to kind of kick off this new era with positivity. And for Seattle, it's ah it's a great chance to kind of step on your rival while while they're down, right? and and And try to at least for one week, keep them down.
00:06:47
Speaker
What do you make of where things stand with the rivalry itself right now? Because I feel like for us up here, up until the last couple of games, honestly, there was just this recurring storyline of, you know, going into every single one of these games and feeling like Seattle was the better team or at least the team that was in better standing at the at the moment. And we all know in Derby games, that stuff goes out the window. It does not matter what form you're in or how good your team even is.
00:07:13
Speaker
But even with that taken into account, it just got very frustrating because it felt like it followed the same formula every time of Seattle going into the game, feeling like they should have the upper hand and then not taking the results, losing a lot of these games, ah dropping points when it felt like should. shouldn't have in a lot of these games to the point where ah Brian Schmetzer a couple of years ago, quite famously delivered a ah a blazing hot press conference in which he basically was like, guys, like,
00:07:40
Speaker
this, we, I don't feel like this is a rivalry right now. Like, I don't feel like I'm feeling like the, the pain and just the guys are not upset enough about the fact that we just lost to Portland. And I think there was something to that where it almost felt like it, it meant more to Portland in a couple of these scenarios than it did to Seattle. And that manifested on the field. And there was an intensity edge that seemed like it was always going towards, uh, towards the Timbers.
00:08:08
Speaker
And, uh, it got to the point where we would go into the games and be like, what's the point of even talking about what form
Portland's Historical Success in Seattle
00:08:15
Speaker
the teams are in or who's playing better? Like, it doesn't matter. The Timbers are going to come out. They're going to be playing with their hair on fire and it's on Seattle. It's the onus is on Seattle to match that intensity. And that's basically the mantra I give every time.
00:08:26
Speaker
Uh, but I will say in the last couple games, you know, there was the one zero for Seattle, uh that the sounders won at lumen field last year but i think my favorite thing about that game was that it did not feel like the intensity edge was on the side of the timbers it felt a lot more even like it should in that scenario but i still just have this like thing in the back of my mind of like you guys got to be ready for this. And now going into a situation where you're playing a Portland team that just moved off their coach and needs that spark. It feels to me like it's set up to be one of these classic situations of the past couple years where the Timbers look at it and they're like, all right, we can use this to springboard our our season and get some momentum back coming off a coaching change. It's like, kind of feels exactly like that. So what do you make of just that dynamic in general right now? Do you think that that's changing or is that still at play.
00:09:17
Speaker
It's interesting, right? I mean, look, Portland went 10 unbeaten at Lumen Field, which is crazy. There was technically a loss in there, which was 10 unbeaten in regular season play. And if you go all comps, it's longer. There's technically a loss in there, which was the second leg of the 2018 Western Conference semifinals because Seattle won that game, the second leg, but the Timbers advanced in penalties. So that's not a loss. So it was 2017, which Caleb Porter was the manager, was the last time the Timbers left Seattle as like, we lost this game, feeling like they lost a game. ah
00:09:54
Speaker
And that was snapped with the 1-0 Seattle win last October. So that was just an odd dynamic in the rivalry. I thought as far as the intensity of it, i I agree. i think that with we with what Brian Schmetzer was saying, I think you did feel for whatever reason, ah just a slight you know drop in the intensity. i don't know I don't know why that is. Maybe turnover in Portland's roster because you would think it wouldn't come from Seattle. like Those guys are...
00:10:22
Speaker
Seattle is like Seattle to their core. I mean, Jackson Reagan, Paul Rothrock, Jordan Morris, all these guys from Seattle and so many other home crones. And then the guys like Steph and the Roldans who have been there forever. Like they should, it's the new players who you're supposed to have to like, you know, introduce to a rivalry. It's not the guys that have been there forever. Maybe it's,
00:10:46
Speaker
Seattle knowing that like they're going to be fine at the end of the year regardless. I don't know if that makes sense. you know like the The group is so strong in Seattle that you know come playoff time, come the end of the year, they're going to be good. They're not susceptible to like swings and momentum and results and even in rivalry games. like They're not going to be...
00:11:07
Speaker
knocked off of their path with ah or or even boosted too much on a path if they just beat the Timbers like because they're just so solid. um But look, Major League Soccer and soccer this country is better when this is a great rivalry, when the Timbers and Sounders absolutely hate each other. You know you said several minutes ago that we probably agree that this is the best rivalry in MLS.
00:11:30
Speaker
I agree. This is the best rivalry in MLS from a long-term perspective. In the short term, in the immediacy, what's the most watched rivalry in MLS? It might be El Trafico. It might be l LA LAFC because those games are always like 3-3. It's the highest scoring or maybe the second highest scoring matchup in MLS history.
00:11:50
Speaker
of two teams, of all the permutations of teams playing each other. So, you know, I, I'd love to get Portland, Seattle back to that, right. The days of the Diego Chara birthday brace and Clint Dempsey getting a couple of late ones. I think that game ended four, four, like the, like the the second leg at Lumen field, when Timbers players thought they had won the game in extra time because they thought the away goals rule still remember that like yeah like Diego and, and, and, and Seba were celebrate. talked to, I,
00:12:18
Speaker
I travel now with Diego Valeri every week. We both still live in Portland. He does the Sunday night soccer in Spanish and Apple TV. I call the games in English. So we're on like same flights all the time. And they they thought they that they didn't know that the away goals rule went away in extra time because at the time in the European Champions League, away goals rule remained in extra time. So I think they just like thought that was the case.
00:12:41
Speaker
And so they were celebrating and then had to realize realized quickly like, oh no, we have to, Zarek Valentin's telling them like, no, We have to do a penalty shootout right now. But then they won the penalty shootout. I mean, in Lumen Field, like just craziness. Like that's the stuff you need in a rivalry game. From a neutral standpoint, we love that. Everybody loves that. um So yeah, and you know, has it dipped a little bit? Maybe ah a slight bit, but it's still great. Like you said, the history is unmatched in this country. um You know, it's awesome. It's awesome. So I think i think it'll be good. I think
00:13:15
Speaker
the fact that the teams are now in these really different spots will make for an intriguing game on Thursday. You've called so many of these rivalry
Preseason Atmosphere in Tucson
00:13:27
Speaker
games over the years.
00:13:29
Speaker
ah you know you You went through a few of them right there. I'd totally forgotten about the Zarek Valentine explaining to Sebastian Blanco that they had to do a penalty kick shootout, but then going out and winning the shootout. And then also that game was so crazy because Zarek It was the Rui Diaz-Galazzo, one of the best goals in Seattle Sounders history to put Seattle in position to ah to advance, I believe. But then playoff Esprit, who you know we still talk about up here. the Apparently the playoff GOAT himself. I don't know how many his MLS career ended up with, but it just it felt like any time the playoffs came around, Esprit would pop up with the greatest performances that you've ever seen. So that game was just so chaotic and so crazy. But like you could go down the list.
00:14:17
Speaker
ah You know, I was talking to guys about that that four four that you mentioned. That seems to be one that sticks out in everyone's mind. For me, it's I think it's always going to be the red card wedding. That was. Yeah, sure. That was one of the first games I i covered as like credentialed media back in the day. And I was like, wow, this is what this rivalry is? This is incredible.
00:14:38
Speaker
ah So you know you have so many, but have do you have one or maybe a couple that stick out as far as that you've been on the call for? Or maybe that you just enjoyed watching as when you when you think of this rivalry, what comes to mind? Yeah, you hit the three big ones. Obviously, anytime they meet in the playoffs, it's it's special. um i To me, it's such a special game to call, and I'm not going to be able to call this one because we're doing LALAFC, Taylor Twelman and i the next day. We will be calling the game on August 1st at Providence Park. when they I mean, they're playing two weeks apart, which is also kind of wild, which is fantastic. But this is going to be a really hipster answer to this question.
00:15:18
Speaker
My favorite memories of Portland, Seattle are calling the games in Tucson on January 31st. We would do like joint Timber Sounders broadcasts where I would call the game with Steve Zachawani. And it it would seem like every year it it this would happen.
00:15:34
Speaker
It's kind of like a return to play for us, a return to calling games for us where we're missing calling games after a long off season. And there would just be a little more access. I mean,
00:15:45
Speaker
We'd sit down with Brian for, Ranch Metzer, for 15, 20 minutes in the hotel in Tucson and just talk through everything. You learned about the ra ah the whole roster of both teams and into their academies. because I knew that about the Timbers, right? Because at the time I was a TV voice. I was full-time with the Timbers. So I knew them really well. But you'd get to know the Sounders players really well. And so, you know, Obed when he's 16, 15, right?
00:16:09
Speaker
Coming along. All the, everybody. Reed Baker Whiting, you know, Cody Baker, neither who are on the none of them are on the team anymore, but you know what I mean? like All of these guys that that you would, I'd learn about in my research. I'd talk to Brian about them and they'd be with the team. This is when they're in their academy, right? They're like 18, 19. And then- Several years later, now they're playing in MLS games and now it's Apple TV and I'm calling the game and they're contributing and and doing big things. um So those games were just, i don't know, it was just something about it was really enjoyable. You'd also have like a couple thousand people there in Tucson, Arizona on January 31st for a preseason game. Um, and so it was just a little different than the other preseason games we would be streaming where there's like nobody there and it's, there wasn't bite to it. So I don't know that, you know, again, that's a really hipster answer, which is maybe appropriate in the Pacific Northwest, but that's a really hipster answer to to that question.
00:17:06
Speaker
i have very fond memories of of covering those games but it's always special i the first time i called the game on national tv i think was yeah espn in 2022 i called portland seattle um with with casey keller at providence park so at the time casey was the color commentator for the sounders i was play-by-play for the timbers so that's kind of gave a little balance so the fans couldn't yell at us too much on twitter right for because we have one Portland guy and one Seattle guy, theoretically. So, man, yeah, it's special. I wish I could call all of them.
00:17:40
Speaker
And I'm glad we'll be able to call the game on on August 1st, because there's just something different with this rivalry. is this Was this the ah Desert Diamond Cup? Yes, of course. The Desert Diamond Cup. that and The illustrious Desert Diamond diamond Cup. Very prestigious tournament.
00:17:54
Speaker
We used to have a joke that that's like all the trophies that they play for. We want the Desert Diamond Cup, especially if ah if you have to go through the Timbers to get the Desert Diamond Cup. I don't think the Timbers ever won it. they They do have the MLS's back trophy, though. the only one famously yeah sitting in Providence park. So they i don't even know have that on everybody else. I don't know if desert diamond cup is still a thing, but it's not, you know, preseason is kind of moved now to, which is actually great. We're going on a tangent here, but to the Palm Springs area, to Coachella, where a lot of the teams that would go to Tucson now go to the Coachella Valley invitational, which is actually a really, they it's really well run. It's set up great. It's a great place for fans to go. It's a little, little better, a little more fan friendly. I think there's kind of more to do. um
00:18:37
Speaker
Plus you can go on vacation to Palm Springs in February. So that's kind of, it's kind of migrated over there to, to Palm Desert. I wasn't going to let us get through this interview without a five minute Desert Diamond. There you go. This is what the people want before the 125th edition of this rivalry or whatever it is.
Portland Timbers' Current Challenges
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah. But you know, to, to bring us back on on track,
00:19:00
Speaker
I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about just this, this Portland Timbers team specifically, you know, I think a lot of our audience probably knows Diego Chara is still on the team and maybe not a lot else. I don't know. i know a little bit more than that, but you probably know more than, ah than me. What's, ah what's going on with the Timbers? Like what are, what are they, what do they do well? What are the reasons that things maybe didn't work out with, uh, with Phil Neville and how are kind of, how are you feeling about just where they're at in their outlook going for the rest of the season?
00:19:35
Speaker
It was a a really tough first half of the season It wasn't even the first half of the season. It's only 14 games. Seattle's only played 13 games, right? but I'm going to call it the first half of the season, tough first half of the season for the Timbers, six losses on the road out of eight games, one win, one draw, just Not not great on the road. um it it it never felt like it came together. You know you you watch the games and it just it just didn't all gel.
00:20:01
Speaker
Several new faces, like you said. ah Diego Choray is still there. He is now 40 years old. He's still doing it. He still looks great. I think he still looks great. out and The guy's ageless. He'll play forever. He's at that point where he could he could go out there at any age. and I think so. on Yeah. And and he's i I'm sure Seattle fans don't like him, which is great. They shouldn't, but he's a great person. like what ah What an amazing representative of of the Portland Timbers to be just the face of the team for so long. um But you know the I think that the attack has struggled. um
00:20:37
Speaker
they've you know Designated players are Christopher Velda and David DaCosta. DaCosta is a very good player, but he's not... An attacker that's going to, he's not a match winner in the attack. He's a tidy player. He can connect from back to front. He's not going to lose the ball. He's going to work hard, but he's not going to you know give you a spectacular moment like a Diego Valeri, like a Sebastian Blanco, like a Nicolas Ladero, right? A Raul Rui.
00:21:01
Speaker
Diaz, et cetera. Diaz is a nine, you know what saying? Christopher Velda, a winger, began you know came in at the end of last year. He's had good moments. He's a dangerous player, plays on the wing.
00:21:14
Speaker
kind of liken him to Danny Bowanga, and he's a good direct winger. Doesn't quite have Bowanga's finishing ability, but he can he can be a handful, and and he's ah he's a good player.
00:21:26
Speaker
The number nine position has gone back and forth between Kevin Kelsey and Felipe Mora. Kelsey actually has has been decent. He's still really young. Mora has struggled to kind of find his goal scoring, but he's but he's a talented player.
00:21:42
Speaker
The midfield, again, it's all reworked. Cole Bassett, former Colorado Rapid, now is playing. a lot of times it was next to Diego Chara that they brought in Caicedo from Pumas. He looked good for a while, then he got injured. a Bigger body in there.
00:22:00
Speaker
back line, again, kind of inconsistent. um The standout player is Finn Sermon, who is a center back. He's 22. He started for New Zealand at the World Cup, scored a scoreti goal.
00:22:12
Speaker
Yeah, which was an incredible moment. He's a great player. He's a great person. He's the type of guy that you know you build a team around. Problem is, i don't know how long he's going to be in Portland because teams are going to want him.
00:22:24
Speaker
oh yeah mean he's He's a really good player. He's a young player. I think if the Timbers can lock him down, if they can make him the Jackson Reagan type where he's your centerpiece of a back line for a long time, that would be a coup for them. But I just don't know if they're gonna be able to do it. And that's fine. That's how that's how the world works. The soccer world works. James Pantemis in goal has is had a really good season.
00:22:45
Speaker
And he's kept the Timbers in games that they didn't deserve to be in. And probably deserved to be with Canada for the World Cup, but just wasn't kind of in with them you know early enough. And and so he he didn't go.
00:23:00
Speaker
So yeah, I think you know right now it's it's a lot of unknown and it's a lot of seeing if a new manager, when that hire is made, can bring this team together, I think in a more coherent way, because there's talent. There's no doubt, right? There's pieces here. um And maybe Jack Cassidy, the interim manager, has figured out a way to do that over the past four weeks when they've been training. But it's a team that Looked fantastic at times at home. They beat Kansas City 6-0. And I know Kansas City was not great. But you watch the game and they look they look amazing. And then they go on the road and just don't don't have the same.
00:23:35
Speaker
um You hope that won't be a problem in a rivalry game. But yeah, to me, I think, you know long story short, the task of the next manager is to get this team to gel together and get these parts to fit together because there are parts there that we haven't seen yet. you know Best case scenario, whoever you hire, they have a, to use a Cascadia Cup reference, a Jesper Sorensen-like impact where the Whitecaps were a perennial 8-9 seed players.
00:24:02
Speaker
and But they kept kind of a core together for a long time. Sorensen takes over and makes them the top seed in the West and just gets them all to come together, figures it out. So I think for the Timbers, that's what you're looking for um out of out of this group. And again, there's not a coach in now, so we're talking long-term. And that's where i i do think The focus isn't long, long-term because there's 20 games left in the season for the Timbers. So there's undoubtedly a belief that this season is not lost and and it they shouldn't think, nobody should think that it's lost.
Player Comparisons: DaCosta vs. Rusnak
00:24:32
Speaker
But also in the process of hiring a manager, you're going to look, they're going to look more, more long-term as a sense of months rather than how do they look right now against Seattle.
00:24:46
Speaker
Again, that's also not an excuse to say they don't care about this game or the result of this game. Of course they do. But I think if you're a Timbers, you're looking at it from a Timbers mindset, Timbers viewpoint.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah. You want to see what does this thing look like in late October? And that's when I think you can, you'll be able to judge a little more. Regarding the ah Diegos, Diego Chara and Diego Valeri, I mean, like I said, I interviewed them both this week and i can confirm that they're both just ah great guys. You know, i was talking to Diego Valeri, which I had not done before. i was just like, man, this guy is...
00:25:22
Speaker
is not only just the nicest guy I've ever talked to, but he's also giving great answers. I was going through the, my transcript today and i was like, this is like one of the best interviews I've, uh, I've done just as far as like the substance of what he was talking about and going into the history of the rivalry. He's brilliant. And this is, this is, this a total aside that Sounders fans might not care about, but like, we'll, you know we'll be flying to games together and he'll, he'll be, I'll be,
00:25:45
Speaker
I'll be usually prepping for the game but because I'm a procrastinator, but he'll be writing. And I'll be like, what are you writing? He writes like like chapters of, i don't know if he's ever going to publish anything, but like writing, like whether it be nonfiction or prose, I mean, he writes in both in in usually in Spanish, and which I can't understand, but I'm sure he's even more eloquent in Spanish than he is in English. He's a very intelligent guy. He's a very thoughtful guy. Diego's a great guy. Very close with Pedro de la Vega also, who came to Lanus, the same club. So Diego and and Pedro, um you know, despite being far apart in age, are have have a nice relationship.
00:26:20
Speaker
I'm glad you brought that up because I think some people know that, but not every Diego Valeri is literally a big reason why Pedro de la Vega came to Seattle. Pedro de la Vega asked him about the Northwest and Diego Valeri was like, Oh hell yeah, you should go there. So shout out to ah Diego Valeri for that. But also, you know, it was tough as a, as a Seattle guy. It's like, I'm supposed to dislike this guy. I can't, literally can't. It's literally impossible to. i like like i I don't know how many Timbers people would say the same. Well, like, Timbers fans wouldn't say that about anybody sounder related, but i'm I'm not a Timbers fan, you know, right? I'm neutral, but i I would say the same thing about the sounders, right? And i think I think if Timbers, like anybody who covers the Timbers were to sit down and and chat with Brian Schmetzer for 30 minutes and it might go well beyond that.
00:27:07
Speaker
that or or Christian or Steph, you know, Steph's the steps to backup now, any any of these guys, right? They they would feel the the same way. Maybe that's why the rivalry's dipped a little bit. Everybody's too nice, you know? Too many too many good guys on both sides. Maybe that's the problem. but Not that there's a problem, but you know what i'm saying?
00:27:24
Speaker
I've been saying for years that the Sounders roster is a little too nice and they need a little more Ozzy Alonzo or like a Diego Char, like one of those guys type mold. And, you know, they, I think Paul Rothrock is a guy who gives a lot of that to this team now, but like they could use a, ah a little more of it. We got Jake Zivin from Apple TV on the show. ah Jake, I did. I have one more little Timbers question for you real quick. Then we can finish it out with some league wide stuff.
00:27:49
Speaker
ah But I was i was i was ah interested to hear your take on David DaCosta because I've considered myself a David DaCosta truther, and I know that ah Timbers fans get frustrated with him. But my take on him has always been like, no, I think he's actually good. he just Who he reminds me a little bit of is Albert Rusnak, who is Seattle's number 10, just in the sense that they're not like super flashy and they're not going to like put up huge, huge volume stats, although Rusnak puts up some some That's what I going to say. It's very... The numbers would be thrilled if DaCosta could contribute. So is that what it is? numbers that Albert does.
00:28:28
Speaker
Because his stat sheet production, I considered a situation where the stat sheet production doesn't necessarily tell you the story, but from what you're saying, it sounds like ah part of the issue is that he has not elevated to that like centerpiece, carry the load type of player. Is that accurate? Yeah, I don't know that that's him, and which is okay. you know i mean The tough part is...
00:28:49
Speaker
In MLS, you do kind of need your DPs to be those types of players, right? Because of the way the roster rules are. If you're running a team in Italy, you can have, you know, you you get like like we're talking salary. Like you could pay a guy at what, and I don't have the numbers in front of me from the release, but you can pay a guy what what you pay, what the Timbers are paying Da Costa, and he doesn't have to be a goal, so you know, 10 goals, 10 assists guy. or what the Sounders are playing paying Albert, right? Like, at that at that DP level.
00:29:21
Speaker
But if you're an MLS and you're you're you're using that roster spot of a DP spot, you do have to kind of get that production out of it. You don't have to. But it if you're not getting it elsewhere, you you really kind of do. And so...
00:29:38
Speaker
I hope that and they and they man maybe that's a big task of the next manager for the Timbers is can that manager get a little bit more out of David DaCosta? Because it's there. Like he had four goals and he had eight assists last year. four goal If the four goals, if it's eight and eight, you're feeling a little better about it.
00:29:56
Speaker
You know, I think you look at that and think, can you get that to close to 10 to 10? Yeah.
00:30:02
Speaker
But I do think he's, like you said, he's ah he's a quality player. And it's interesting to hear you say that that you've kind of been a supporter of of his. and I'm a supporter. I'm a supporter. He's so clean. you know he Yeah, exactly. Who he reminds me of is a poor man's Darlington Nagby.
00:30:18
Speaker
And his ability... Now, Nagby is the most underrated player in the history of the league. Nagby is the ultimate cheat code. He will never lose the ball. You give him the ball, and he's the safety valve on the team. DeCosta's not quite there, but he is clean on the ball, and he can progress the ball through lines, and he can make the the right and simple play. i think he has maybe a little more of creativity in his mind than Darlington does, but...
00:30:45
Speaker
the way how clean he is on the ball and how technically good he is on the ball and kind of how he moves and can carry the ball forward, that would be my comparison. And Nagby is not a not a goal contributor. And that was Timbers' network way back. But the Timbers' issue for the first for four the six years that Nagby was here, for most those six years, is that it felt like they wanted him to be a goal contributor instead of just realizing this is the best number, 6'8", best kind of box-to-box midfielder in the history of the league, put him in the middle of the field. next to Diego Chara and let's, and with Diego Valleira in front of him and let's go.
00:31:18
Speaker
i mean, I do think the fact that those guys only won one trophy playing together is pretty wild. They were together for five seasons. They won an MLS cup, which is a huge accomplishment, but only one trophy when you have those three guys on a team in retrospect is, is wild. Cause man, they were good. Um,
00:31:36
Speaker
But yeah, I think to me, Nagby more than Albert. And I say that more from a, again, Albert, I think is is a is a more attack-minded, is much more attack-minded player than Dacosta.
00:31:50
Speaker
Interesting. Okay. Yeah. That kind of, that clarifies it a little bit. I know I am a DaCosta truther and not like an ironic. I'm i'm a Roosnock truther, to be honest. I think he's an incredible player. yeah And I think that he, if if if Sounders fans or MLS fans don't appreciate him, I think you're you are wrong. He is a wonderful player.
00:32:12
Speaker
There is a vocal minority of the Seattle fan base that we refer to as the brigade that will not be happy about that take. But we, I mean, we've been arguing against the any roostnacks. I've also been for the record and I hope everybody's on. I've been a Brian Schmetzer truther for
MLS Cup Contenders and New Signings
00:32:26
Speaker
years. I remember going on a Seattle podcast probably three years ago. after they missed the playoffs, after they won the CONCACAF Champions Cup and then missed the playoffs, and there was do you know some little bit of discontent, it felt, in the fan base. And I'm like, you guys are crazy.
00:32:44
Speaker
What Seattle has with Brian Schmetzer is what every professional sports team in the world should want. A guy who's been part of the organization for 45 years brings stability, passion, and results.
00:32:57
Speaker
If anybody deserves a long leash, it's Brian Schmetzer. So anyway, now that we're trading kind of who we're truthers of on the other side, that's, that's my big take. We had the desert diamond cup segment. We have the Costa Roosnack truther segment. So everybody's ready for the game on Thursday. No doubt. yeah But ah also i did want to hit a couple ah zoom out and hit a couple of league wide storylines with you. And then we'll get you out of here. Don't want to keep you all night, but yeah,
00:33:24
Speaker
Just to zoom out and look at the rest of MLS, what's the biggest storyline you're watching over the second half of the season? I mean, you got Nashville and the Shield Chase. The one I'm kind of on right now is this Lewandowski thing. yeah Not because of the name value, but because I think like the whole idea of him and Kuiper... He was together is just it's fascinating <unk> from like, ah how is that going to work? But then, whoa, if that does work, that could be absolutely terrifying. So like that's I was just writing up my matches to watch for for Thursday. And that was that was right up there with this Cascadia derby just because we'll see if Lewandowski debuts. But like just that for the rest of the season is a big one to track. you know I think you could throw LAFC in there, what what's going on with them and Sun Hyung-min. But i what to do what stands out to you as we hit the restart here?
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think the the new players coming in and Lewandowski is top of the list. Griezmann, also top of the list. Because...
00:34:26
Speaker
you know And we've kind of come full circle in MLS, haven't we? Because now these are the signings we're talking about again. But that's a credit to the impact that Messi, Son, and though I agree with you, I think LAFC right now is in an interesting interesting spot.
00:34:42
Speaker
and And Thomas Müller, for sure, in Vancouver. The impact that those three guys have had in particular on their clubs and and their teams and the league has now made me super curious to see, okay, can Griezmann lift Orlando City like Mueller lifted Vancouver? Can Lewandowski, and that's maybe a better, Lewandowski's maybe the better comparison because Chicago's in a really good, they're in third place in the Eastern Conference right now. Ken Lewandowski lifts Chicago like Mueller, who Vancouver had a great first half of the season. like That was in no means. Last year, was not it was in no means Tomas Mueller's impact on Vancouver. They went to the CONCACAF Champions Cup final without him.
00:35:22
Speaker
But then he added a lot in the summer and and a big reason why they made it to MLS Cup. Ken Lewandowski have a similar kind of leveling up impact on chicago So those two guys, I think first and and foremost, who I'm really interested in seeing if Casemiro joins into Miami, which has widely been reported though, not officially announced how they fit all that together. um So the big names coming in ah on the other side, talking about teams, you mentioned Nashville, of course, can they keep that up in the East? Can they hold off Miami on the West? ah
00:36:01
Speaker
Can San Jose keep it going? Because for me, they were credible in the first half of the season. They're the story of the season so far. The way Bruce Arena had them playing was legit. It was real. They were good. They were so fun to watch. Nico Chakiris, for me, the breakout player of the first half of the season, I loved watching him play. I mean, he's so good. You look like one of the best number 10s in the league. 100%. It's like he's 20. I want to see him grow into the national team. And I love a number 10. He reminded me of Ladero. He wanted the ball, first of all. And every time he got on the ball, his first idea was something positive. Every time he's turning forward, he's looking for someone, he's trying to do something.
00:36:43
Speaker
loved it. Love watching him play. He was injured at the end of last year, or at the end of the, you know, the, before the break. If he can come back and, and hit that form and care, keep carrying San Jose. They're so fun to watch. Can't, can't wait to see that. And of course, Miami, Miami,
00:37:01
Speaker
right? Messi and DePaul, are they playing in a world? Will they be playing in a world cup final? We'll see. well And, and regardless, they're a final or a third place game. So when do they come back? When do they reintegrate into inter Miami?
00:37:13
Speaker
Guillermo Hoyos is still the manager. Is like, how's that going to go now that we get to the second half of the season, the results were great under him before the break, but you look at the opponents. They also weren't the cream of the crop.
00:37:27
Speaker
Once he has to play some more difficult opponents, what does that look like? um it's Man, it's it's really intriguing. I think it's going to be a wonderful finish to the season. And I haven't finished to the season. It's not even halfway through. And how how teams handle the schedule is going to be really intriguing because there are so the games are going to come fast and furious in a way that we've never seen before. And I think that in a way people maybe don't even have grips on yet.
00:37:52
Speaker
So who can handle that will be fascinating. But man, there's so much. Who else is going to come into the league, right? What are the other signings that are going to be made? Because i think we're going have some big ones before this transfer window ends. with It just opened.
00:38:04
Speaker
um And yeah, I think, man, I can't wait. I'm i'm so excited to to get the season back up and running. I love the Securus Ladero comp. I hadn't thought of that one, but I think it's actually pretty apt, not just with the ah the ball progression and the proactive stuff that you mentioned, but also just like the work rate and how he's always running, always flying around. I totally agree. If he comes back at full health and how it looks, how he looked before he got injured. I fully expect San Jose to be a factor in the Western Conference in a way that, you know, they're not getting talked about as much right now because they maybe slowed down a little bit and had some injuries, but that's going to be ah in ah an interesting one to watch. ah Jake, last one for you, and then we can call it a wrap for the night, but let's just get your, ah how are you feeling about MLS Cup pick?
Potential MLS Cup Winners
00:38:51
Speaker
If you made one today, who's lifting MLS Cup in December? And I think, you know, more so has anything you've seen this season changed changed your mind, you know, relative to how you saw it going into the season to where we're at now getting into the restart.
00:39:06
Speaker
There, there've been some teams that have disappointed, obviously, right. That I would have said, i think that they could, could be contenders, San Diego chief among those. And I think they'll be okay. I think San Diego will, we'll figure it out, but they're out of the playoffs right now. And I, They're paying Shuki Lozano $10 million. dollars They've got they do they've got to figure that out, right? They've got to figure they've got to figure out a resolution. But Tyler Heaps said again, I think it was today, for um that no he's still not in our sporting plans. That's not going to change. I mean, they have been steadfast. Tyler and Mikey have been steadfast. That is not going to change. But it is something that you feel like they've just got to come to a conclusion of, right? like Because it's going to continue to be a distraction, especially if they don't
00:39:48
Speaker
get back to the, like if they don't keep winning and not just winning a lot, like they did last year, fan base is going to start chanting Chucky's name, which we did a game there. I forget who they were playing towards the end of last year. And they were chanting Chucky Lozano, you know, the Chucky Lozano chant after the game.
00:40:04
Speaker
They got it. So they got to get that. They got to get that distraction away. LAFC started out so strong and then dipped. So that may be a surprise me a little bit. Cincinnati, I thought would be how they always are. And I think they'll get back there and they are in the playoff picture in the East, but it's, it was a shaky start. So those are the teams that I would have kind of thrown out there before the season, um along with inter Miami, who I think you can never pick against. ah And, and the team I would pick right now
00:40:37
Speaker
ah are the Vancouver Whitecaps. I think they're the best team in MLS. They're so impressive. They were so close to winning it last year. I mean, they had a triple post moment, double post plus one. If that goes in, they're up to one. Yeah. And they might win MLS cup, ah but they have, they're just as good. They're getting Ryan called back, which if they can get anything out of him, I mean, my goodness. Um,
00:41:06
Speaker
i'd i'd I'd have to, I go, i go Vancouver. so I'm upsetting both sides of of Cascadia right now. I'm upsetting the people in Portland. I'm upsetting the people in Seattle with that pick. So at least it's, it's fair play on this podcast.
00:41:17
Speaker
No, I mean, it's a completely fair pick. I think they would be on my short list of picks as well. I also, I do, I am looking at it, you know, through the Seattle lens as well, though, of like when I look at Vancouver and San Jose, I'm like, okay, those are two of the best teams in the league. They're ahead of Seattle on the table. They have played though in Seattle, 5-1 Vancouver in CCC and swept San Jose in the regular season. So, you know, ah that's just kind of my framing. I mean, I would, I would ah look,
00:41:48
Speaker
But Seattle will be there. They will always be there. They are as solid as it comes. I have zero doubt that when it comes playoff time, the Sounders will be right there in a position of strength somewhere in the top half of the bracket. uh, and I wouldn't want to play them if I'm either of those teams, particularly San Jose, to your point, no way, uh, would I want to play them? plays Or Vancouver. Um, I, nobody wants to play Seattle. i mean, they ruined the best season in MLS history, 2019 LAFC, who I think a lot of people would say is the best at the time. It was the best season in MLS history statistically, but I think a lot of people would even say from the eye test, that's the best team in the history of the league. And,
00:42:30
Speaker
They couldn't get past Seattle in the playoffs. That was, that's still, I think to this day, my favorite win in Seattle Sounders history. That was, that was a great night for all involved. ah Jake, that is all I have for you here this evening. Thank you so much
Conclusion and Upcoming Games
00:42:42
Speaker
for tapping in. It's Jake Zivin from Apple TV. You can catch him calling all kinds of games across the league. One of the lead play-by-play broadcasters from Apple TV. ah Jake, before we go, is there anything that you wanted to plug as far as what you guys have going on at Apple TV or where to find you on socials or anything at all? Yeah, look, so this is ah an exciting time for the league coming back, right? So it's a quadruple header of sorts on Thursday, culminating in in Seattle, Portland.
00:43:11
Speaker
Four great games. Starts with Montreal, Toronto, another great rivalry. Vancouver, Chicago, the Berhalter Derby. You mentioned Lewandowski. Will he be there? Tomas Muller. And St. Louis, Sporting Kansas City, which is Yeah. Two teams that are below the playoff line, but that is ah a heated rivalry as well. That's Thursday. And then Friday night, a great double header, um, Nashville, Atlanta. And then we're doing El Trafico, LA, LA FC, seven 30 Pacific time. We'll have the call on Apple. Both of those games are also on Fox, right? Where everybody's been watching the world cup.
00:43:42
Speaker
So, um, Tune in, man. Tune in and then and then here we go. Games are going to be left and right going forward. If you want to follow me on social media, at Jake Zivin is my handle pretty much everywhere. And since I'm on a Seattle Sounders podcast, you ask there's anything else you want to plug. Shout out to Carlton College, which is my alma mater and the alma mater of basically Andrew Thomas' entire family.
00:44:05
Speaker
His brother played there and his parents went there. So shout out to Carlton College. Andrew maybe smartly went to Stanford instead, but you know, it's okay. He's the black sheep of his family. from that thing That's a heck of a connection. I didn't know that one, but ah Jake, thanks again for the time. We really appreciate That was a lot of fun. We'll have to get you back on the show soon, but until then, good luck with all the calls and take care. Anytime, anytime. Enjoy the game. Can't wait to watch on Thursday night.