Transcript
Jarrod Dyke: Hey everybody, welcome back. It is the Fancy Rugby Yanks. My name is Jared Dyke.
Grumpy Old Prop: I'm Ben Glauser.
Jarrod Dyke: Let's go. We got plenty to do, plenty to see. I don't know about seeing, but you know, plenty to do.
Grumpy Old Prop: Funny to say.
Jarrod Dyke: Just the same. Let's pop this. Yeah, plenty to say.
Grumpy Old Prop: so Little talking juice.
Jarrod Dyke: That's for sure. Pop me one of these.
Jarrod Dyke: This is my first bit week back to work. I was off for a couple of weeks.
Grumpy Old Prop: this This is the first time in years where I haven't been basically off for December.
Jarrod Dyke: I'm out of rhythm.
Grumpy Old Prop: I didn't I didn't like it yeah I'm like like what the fuck I have to actually work I didn't feel like this didn't feel like Christmas at all well just cuz I'm so used I'm fucking spoiled not anymore
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, that's true. Cause I remember, I remember those days.
Jarrod Dyke: Hmm. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, no. Well, listen, if you, if you, if yours, if your kid didn't spit up on you all the way through all three of your shirts, then you had a better Christmas than I did.
Jarrod Dyke: Trust me.
Grumpy Old Prop: Fair.
Jarrod Dyke: I had to wash all three shirts at my in -laws.
Grumpy Old Prop: I don't think she, I don't think she, ugh, wow.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, so I borrowed something that's not my style for my brother -in -law.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah ah
Jarrod Dyke: He's like, you look good in that. I'm like, yeah, you can keep it.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: You don't like it? I'm like, it's your shirt. You can keep it.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like, I wasn't going to talk more about it, but I was like, it's your shirt.
Grumpy Old Prop: ah
Jarrod Dyke: you You keep it. It's okay. ah anyway Anyway, make sure that you find us on your favorite podcast app. Download the great review.
Jarrod Dyke: Be back, always welcome. Buy our good friend, George, the fancy rugby geek, ah a coffee or a beer. We appreciate you especially as busy as we are during these Champions Cup weeks and um talk about how busy I'm going to be in a second.
Jarrod Dyke: um But yes, the man deserves your attention, your applause and your money.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm -hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: So go ahead and do that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, and your beer. Give him a beer.
Jarrod Dyke: Yes. There is no description here on this podcast, nor should there be in sports or in life speaking of sports. Um, one, I don't care all that too much about, but, um, found it, found it interesting the way, um, what they call us but this is black Monday in the national football league.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm -hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: because it's the last day of the season, um, for the regular season, which means coaches get sacked and sent with their, you know, sent their belongings somewhere else.
Grumpy Old Prop: here
Jarrod Dyke: Um, and, uh, I'm from, I live in New England. We live in New England. We are not knowing the Patriots fans and these motherfuckers are such spoiled babies, number one, but that's not the point.
Grumpy Old Prop: Well, there's that. Yes. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: That's not, that's not the point of this. but they they did fire their their first year coach. This was his first year ever being a head coach. um Gerard Mayo, who used to play for them once upon a time, and um ive been I was around when he was playing then, he was pretty good.
Grumpy Old Prop: He was.
Jarrod Dyke: um And they the rumor is they're gonna hire basically the same guy, but he's white.
Grumpy Old Prop: Well, not only that, but a guy who, like, so here's the thing. A coach in the NFL, like they talk about it being, you know, you need a quarterback, first and foremost. And Mike Vrabel, how many, he's been with with ah Tennessee for a little bit. He's had multiple opportunities to to find and develop quarterbacks. He's had a couple, I think at least one first round pick.
Grumpy Old Prop: um He had one, I think late, i but I think he had Mariota at one point, but, um, who had been, I think a first round pick, but yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Oh, he if he had mariota, he was on the tail end of that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, but like a couple of guys who like, you know, one of those, like, look at the what the the Patriots did this year. If if you watched, I mean, you know, for those who, who do, who don't watch football.
Grumpy Old Prop: So they get a quarterback in the first round who turns out to be a kind of a stud like this guy can play.
Jarrod Dyke: He's he was good though. I mean I didn't watch shit, but like I know he was good
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, no, he can play. i watch I watched him play a couple times. he's He's good. And they also drafted a guy who um I had mentioned to Jared, but not that he'd remember. um Because I kind of wanted the Steelers to grab him in a later round. ah Joe Milton, I think he was out of Tennessee, who maybe didn't have as many starts, but like had a quality arm to it, like an NFL arm. And sometimes that's like the hardest part to find. um Even guys who can think their way around the field.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. But it's also I thought his decision making in college was pretty good from the limited amount I saw of him and I was like, guys got an arm and he can play a little like he can ball like someone should want to and then week 17. They play this backup quarterback and he like goes off I think he had the four total touchdowns he had a rushing touchdown and like a whole bunch of passes like guy was a monster.
Grumpy Old Prop: um
Grumpy Old Prop: And it's like, okay, You're going to like, you're going to fire the coach after that. Like there's, and they have literally nobody else. They have a running back. They're star running back. Like wouldn't stop fumbling.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: the Stevenson.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, he got all right towards the end, but like, he's not that good.
Jarrod Dyke: Hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: They have zero offensive line to speak of. They don't have any wide receivers really. And yet like they weren't terrible. I mean, they they had a bad record.
Grumpy Old Prop: They were in, they're in the hunt for the first overall pick. But like, you know, they're gonna suck. And you fire and and to me that like, I, if if I'm one of the other openings, I'm like, I'd go after Mayo over fruit and leave a variable.
Jarrod Dyke: Right.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, cause it's like the guy you, like but for able is like ah this ridiculous, like hot hire.
Jarrod Dyke: Right.
Grumpy Old Prop: Everybody wants them from the Patriots to like the jets to, um, I think the Raiders are going to look into them because they all, I mean, Tom Brady.
Jarrod Dyke: Those other two teams should be a, and I don't know shit about shit anymore, but I'm pretty sure those other two teams should be a huge red flag to anybody else that wants this guy because the Jets are usually dog shit and the Raiders are usually dog shit.
Grumpy Old Prop: mar
Grumpy Old Prop: Exactly. exactly
Jarrod Dyke: So, and they have two owners that don't keep their nose and in their own fucking business and just love to be a pain in the arse.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: You know, they're, they're up there with like one of the most difficult people to work with next to like the Cowboys. the Cowboys are definitely number one.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like I would not want to work with that asshole.
Grumpy Old Prop: But also look at the decisions they've made.
Jarrod Dyke: You couldn't pay me enough money.
Grumpy Old Prop: like these are These are teams that like hire poop, and you're like, oh, maybe they've got the right idea. No, they don't. If they're interested in these these this coach, and there's mutual interest, just say, you know what?
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, yeah, something to that degree.
Grumpy Old Prop: you You can have one of those teams, or one of those teams can have you. um And also, um, Antonio Pierce was fired. Um, by the Raiders, which I thought was interesting too.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's like the same kind of, the same kind of thing. Like he got very little time and they were like, they didn't even get a chance to, I don't think they, did they trust the quarterback in the first round?
Jarrod Dyke: They were in way worse shape, weren't they?
Grumpy Old Prop: I don't know, but either way, like it wasn't quality. And I'm not sure he had much of a say in it.
Jarrod Dyke: I've been playing like Minshew for a while, who I know is bad.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Right. and Like I think they had David Carr. I think he got her. I don't remember. I don't fuck know cuz he went to the Cars down in New Orleans.
Jarrod Dyke: No, cars down in New Orleans, I remember i know that.
Grumpy Old Prop: I can't they signed some other schmoe and it's like yeah They got they got nobody like give him it give him a shot the players apparently used to like him um I can't imagine that changed too much like they're just not a good team and it's not quite his fault You then It is But it's like it's interesting how
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, but it's easy to blame one person.
Jarrod Dyke: It's it's easy to blame one person if they're, I mean, yeah, I mean, sometimes the player, the person's getting in the way and sometimes the person's not.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: And like, I don't think the person's getting in the way.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: I think it's just a bad team.
Grumpy Old Prop: No, no, but it's there is a difference in the way black coaches versus white coaches are treated.
Jarrod Dyke: There's a difference, you know?
Grumpy Old Prop: And so Antonio Pierce um and, ah you know, John Mayo get treated and Brian Flores, by the way.
Jarrod Dyke: Hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: Say, i was thinking I was just thinking to him, I was like, what about the guy from Miami?
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, and the
Jarrod Dyke: like what's the this that That's pending, I imagine, isn't it?
Grumpy Old Prop: I don't even know anymore. I haven't been paying attention.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: I thought they, maybe they settled it, but that might've just been like the dolphins in him, but.
Jarrod Dyke: That's a possibility, actually. I think I remember hearing something about that, but maybe I'm maybe i'm making that up in my head.
Grumpy Old Prop: But it's, it's like, and then this guy they brought in who's like this wonder kid, apparently, but they can't make the playoffs. They still suck. Like he keeps, he gets basically is getting your star quarterback killed, like literally almost killed toy did two years in a row.
Jarrod Dyke: Oh yeah. Well, you and I were watching that game.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: I was like, and he almost died.
Grumpy Old Prop: He almost did it again this year. Like he got to get some concussion issue this year too.
Jarrod Dyke: Jesus.
Grumpy Old Prop: And it's like, dude, you gotta retire. And yet the coach is like, no, no, no, he's good, he's good.
Jarrod Dyke: Well, yeah, that's on, that's on the kid.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: He's probably made enough money.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: I imagine.
Grumpy Old Prop: So I don't get it. um You know, the the disparity of treatment is is shit for a league that's really trying to make itself, you know, or present itself as as not racist.
Grumpy Old Prop: o
Jarrod Dyke: Not doing a very good job.
Grumpy Old Prop: Your owners are yours are are pretty pretty racist.
Grumpy Old Prop: Pretty racist.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. I think that's, uh, that's minimum. um
Grumpy Old Prop: I'm surprised Tony Rowe isn't. Oh, he just I don't think he has the money.
Jarrod Dyke: Definitely doesn't have the money.
Grumpy Old Prop: That's it. That's the only things deep in him out of the league.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, he would, he would probably buy into this. I bet you he'd buy into Kansas city. I bet you he would.
Grumpy Old Prop: Hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: if someone loved them.
Jarrod Dyke: Anywho, ah make sure that you grab our Patreon. I do have a little somethin' somethin' for those of you playing Champion's Cup this week. Make sure that you're subscribed, because all the data's in. I just gotta put a one, two formulas together, which will take no time at all, and that'll be posted tomorrow.
Jarrod Dyke: And that'll be to everyone's benefit to know whether or not the players you're picking are worth the cashish you're spending on them.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm. It's very important to know.
Jarrod Dyke: So that should, that should be a nice little tool for everyone to be able to use.
Jarrod Dyke: Okay. Uh, we, we had, we had excitement this weekend, um, many places, but none bigger than in Bristol at Ashton gate, where we were waiting on the,
Jarrod Dyke: long awaited debut of Alona Meyer and Dave Ward was kind enough to pick her in the team and check her on there for 20 minutes, which was good.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. yeah i I don't, I don't think he had a choice in that. I think once it, be like again, you you can't, yeah, you can't bring the team over to Ashton gate and then, and then say, Oh, by the way, she's not going to play.
Jarrod Dyke: Probably not honestly. It's annoying, but it is what it is, you know?
Grumpy Old Prop: Like, yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: And she needs men. In the end, she needs minutes if she's gonna be effective ah yeah and for this team.
Grumpy Old Prop: And I think this the score helped too. It was one of those like, okay, either she comes in and potentially turns the game in as a hero or the the game was lost anyway, and she just got her 20 minutes in.
Grumpy Old Prop: Like it was a good time to bring her. I think I was calling her about five minutes early, but I was like, even then I'm like, no, like start getting her warmed up. Like you're ready to go. um Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Now I get off the bench at least.
Grumpy Old Prop: 60 minutes was was appropriate, especially after, and the way they actually, I really liked the way they brought her in. um to bring her in right after a Gloucester -Harkbury try, um i mean which obviously you weren they weren't planning on, but um brought in right afterwards, and then they kicked the restart so that she would get a tackle.
Jarrod Dyke: Mm hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: And so it was really cool to like the the chair, as she's down, she's on.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: And then, so the crowd goes nuts. Cause that's really, you know, ah right doubled the record for, yeah, like 4 ,000 people were there at least probably more solely to see Alona Marr.
Jarrod Dyke: That's what they're there for. Let's be honest.
Grumpy Old Prop: And that was it. Like they got to see a great game of rugby too, but they, they really came to see Marr. Um, she comes on, makes a tackle at a good solid, like, I'm, you know, hi P .W .I., I'm a Lona Marr type tackle.
Grumpy Old Prop: um Crowd continues to go nuts. And and yeah, she I thought she acquitted herself pretty well. Like, she looks like she belongs out there at least. It might take her a little bit to get, you know, settle into the code and and and the team and all that, but I thought, it's like, no, she's she's massive and she's fast.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, no, I totally agree. ah
Grumpy Old Prop: Like, she's gonna do all right. She'll be just fine.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, just needs a little bit of more, more time out there and more training and I'm sure it will be, you know, they, they don't have another, they have another semi -tough assignment to tough assignment this week.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: So I think the following week they're back home against Lester and I bet you that match gets moved to the gate as well.
Grumpy Old Prop: Probably that sounds like a good opportunity for her to start and have a day.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, i wouldn't I wouldn't be shocked in any way, shape, or form. But in the end, it was there was a the reservo was a rugby game being played.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, there there was actually 60 minutes of rugby before that that this all happened.
Jarrod Dyke: And yes, there was.
Grumpy Old Prop: um
Jarrod Dyke: Yes, there was. And you know man, i mean Bristol are going to be pissed at themselves in the end because yeah while they, you know, here's the other thing, alone, we got onto the bench because Bristol also have huge injury issues.
Grumpy Old Prop: They do.
Jarrod Dyke: So like is a laundry list of players that are missing and not bad players, by the way, they're all very good players.
Grumpy Old Prop: That was exacerbated again.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: So it's like, this is the, you know, or in the end, more than one way, words, hands were tied, like,
Grumpy Old Prop: Mhm.
Jarrod Dyke: my, are you what else am I going to do? All right, here you go.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: So in the end, what they were doing so well to start like, yeah, 10, I mean, 10, seven and a half half isn't amazing, especially with Licky George ah off the field for part of that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mhm.
Jarrod Dyke: But I, I would be, I mean, I'm sure David Ward was jumping up and down like, all right, we're in this thing.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mhm.
Jarrod Dyke: Let's, let's get after it. And, uh, you know, we had a, the Mohan try. We had the one try. We had the mirror try.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Those were all within 10 minutes of each other.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: I was like, hey and it's got, she's, she's telling the roses that she needs to play.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm. And um but like, I don't want to gloss over any of those tries in the first half, though, because Emma sings try was a thing of beauty, like, um,
Jarrod Dyke: And I don't disagree.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, it's it's it's hard not to. um And then the Milly David try, that Milly David try with the the cut in and then just to pin the defender and then be like, oh, look at this, I have 15 meters on the outside.
Jarrod Dyke: She only seems to make the next bench. Let's work that way. Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: So I'm just going to skin you on the outside. um If you're a ah young wing and you you want to see like some quality wing fundamentals plus just juice and and speed on the outside, yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Gas, yeah. Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Look at that try. that's If you've got if you got wheels, that's how you create space for yourself. um Or you take the Alicia Joyce Butcher's method of throwing the world's biggest dummy, well, at least on the weekend.
Grumpy Old Prop: um Well, no, I'm sorry, second biggest dummy on the weekend.
Jarrod Dyke: Second biggest dummy.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, but, but certainly the, actually, and you know, this was, you know, every bit is entertaining.
Jarrod Dyke: We'll come to that one in a minute.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, and just spun around who was a pip handy. I think just like did, did a little pirouette and then a fall.
Jarrod Dyke: I think it was Andy. Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, and nope, nobody's blaming hers.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. Oh, I was like, Ooh, she just put you in your freaking.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Oh, yeah. She put you on a poster in all the bad ways.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like, yeah. The funny thing is like you, I'm looking at the, the, the match rundown, seeing Joyce butchers in there, you know, the first thing that, cause it doesn't have any first initial.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: um what's going to come to your brain first?" You're like, oh, that's Jasmine.
Grumpy Old Prop: Nope.
Jarrod Dyke: No, it's not, it's Alicia.
Grumpy Old Prop: That's the other one.
Jarrod Dyke: It's not, it's the other one.
Grumpy Old Prop: who
Jarrod Dyke: And that's obviously, I mean, nobody would blame anybody for just going right to that route and say, yeah, it was, nope, no, no, no, it wasn't them.
Grumpy Old Prop: Nope. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: It wasn't them. And then I think without jumping too far ahead, we got to talk about Georgia Brock and the impact she made on this game and just,
Jarrod Dyke: I don't know who she'd come in for, number one. If it's who I think it is, that was the right decision.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, I just had it.
Jarrod Dyke: I guess either one of them is good, honestly. She came in for Beth and Lewis.
Grumpy Old Prop: Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's right.
Jarrod Dyke: that's ah That's a good decision, honestly.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: I think either Kate Williams or her, I think it's hard to say that Roger Brock shouldn't start at this point after that performance, so I betcha she gets a 15 -shirt this week.
Grumpy Old Prop: ah Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Probably.
Jarrod Dyke: um but then he I'm sorry. It was shocking, but it wasn't for a Bristol on the end because I look at this pack and I'm like, fuck me. like
Jarrod Dyke: you know and Mackenzie Carson's good, but she's not amazing, but she's still solid. like Jones, Mira, Beckett, Aldecroft, Williams, Lewis, and Matthews.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: I was like, that's all like just Gold right there. It's like fucking if you're the forwards coach for Bristol, you're like damn it like yeah and they got some solid ones There's no doubt about that.
Jarrod Dyke: We're like don't don't get me wrong.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like we know we know botters and acting Davies and burn Abby Ward, obviously choice butchers Gallagher maroonie and mu most Marshall Mulhern, but like still like just Those other girls there, you know, Alex Matthews and all the grafter usually to the best for England let alone for their club so it's like
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. And both were fantastic this game too.
Jarrod Dyke: Mm hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: um Obviously mirror with it to try and yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. Yeah. And I love Abby Ward, but, you know, just move.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, it's. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. and and they And, you know, it was I said it to you and really this game was done at the service by not having Cara Bevan available. And that's not a disrespect to Fionn Lewis.
Jarrod Dyke: I thought she played pretty damn well, all things considered when she was kind of ah a bit of a break glass in case of emergency.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: um
Jarrod Dyke: roster spot, but like just, yeah, you get, ah right.
Grumpy Old Prop: I thought she, could I thought she played all right. It's, you know.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, no, I totally agree.
Grumpy Old Prop: and
Jarrod Dyke: And, but I think to think about like Mohan versus Bevan as well, that would have been as much as I would have enjoyed obviously seeing Alona, that also would have been a nice little tasty matchup to watch in this game as well.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: So, uh, in the end, it's not totally surprising that Gloucester do what they did and, and put them to the sword by the, by the end. But it's like, man, they were They had it, and and I'm sure Bristol will kick themselves later on.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, a little bit. um Yeah, that's unfortunate. But again, hey, I'm pretty sure didn't Bristol beat Gloucester Harper the year that they that I think Gloucester Harper was it last year?
Grumpy Old Prop: I think it was. I thought Bristol beat them and in at the circus. If I'm not mistaken, I could be talking on my ass here, so.
Jarrod Dyke: That might be true.
Jarrod Dyke: A couple of years ago, I think they did. Not last year.
Grumpy Old Prop: OK.
Jarrod Dyke: I don't think they did this year either.
Grumpy Old Prop: And then there was, yeah, I'm just saying that that it's possible to to recover from getting beat at home by a quality team to then go beat them in a neutral site for a championship.
Jarrod Dyke: um but
Grumpy Old Prop: So, yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, so we'll find out.
Grumpy Old Prop: Just opportunity missed for Bristol.
Jarrod Dyke: We will find out.
Grumpy Old Prop: And I think you're right. It is more due to player availability than than anything else.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, I think, yeah, just the number of injuries in general were definitely robbed us us of a slightly better game.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: then we ended up getting, but it was you know, still still good up until that 60 odd minute mark when that that last try had kind of been run in.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: I was like, okay, here we go.
Grumpy Old Prop: Okay. That's it.
Jarrod Dyke: We're getting out of hand here.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: The wheels have fallen off here, good buddy.
Jarrod Dyke: All right. ah Let's go let's go up to Kingston Park.
Jarrod Dyke: I'll say this and, you know, we're going to talk about coaches in a little bit. I have a feeling. I'll give Dimes his credit. That team is hard to beat up there right now. And the score line doesn't completely do them justice, the the Falcons.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm -hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: And Quinn's figured it out and and understood the assignment eventually.
Grumpy Old Prop: Well, it was Yeah, I was what it was like a seven -point game at half if that I can't remember what the halftime score was um Close though Yeah, so Mm -hmm
Jarrod Dyke: um I'll give you that in one second while my damn page loads. It was, yeah, some point game. some point game. It was a Marcus Smith try that right the right near the end of it that gave him that. So yeah, I mean, it's a tough, it's a tough place to go now. yeah Obviously, Exeter and Saracen's found that out and and I think even Bath to an extent found that out since, you know, since that after those first couple of games of the year where they kind of just let teams run riot on them, they've they've become a tough output to beat up it up in the team. So I'm i'm sure,
Jarrod Dyke: while they lack a lot of things on Newcastle, that is at least a nice thing to be able to hang their hat on. Because let's face it, like the last two years before that, what were they hanging their hat on?
Grumpy Old Prop: um But maybe the bonus point win for the, you know, the less than seven point mark that for margin, like certainly not the tri -bonus point.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: um
Jarrod Dyke: No, and they still aren't doing that, but at least they can,
Grumpy Old Prop: No.
Jarrod Dyke: You know, they can say they can hold teams out and they can get a couple of, you know, they had some brilliant attackers that have come and gone, unfortunately. And that's just, that that says a lot about the coaches that were there before.
Grumpy Old Prop: that Yeah, but it also makes me nervous for, you know, where dimes is taking this team. We all know how physically likes his teams, which does.
Jarrod Dyke: Yes, I know.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yes, that helps with this because, you know, it's a long, long drive to the tune. And then you got to go play this physical team. And by that point, you know, ah you're sore already just from the drive and.
Grumpy Old Prop: they
Grumpy Old Prop: No, it's a, it makes it tough. And especially when the other team starts smashing you. Um, but like, you're going to need more than that. So, um, I hope that they're also have an eye towards, you know, because they're losing too many, they they're losing Blamire too.
Jarrod Dyke: They are.
Jarrod Dyke: Yes, he's going to Leicester next year.
Grumpy Old Prop: So it's like, who, who is, who's carrying the ball for him? but That's. yeah
Jarrod Dyke: i'm I'm sure they'll tell you it's chick, which he's a plotter and me and you and I've talked about that before.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: So it's it's not much.
Grumpy Old Prop: ah no um yeah I just don't know what the future for this team holds.
Jarrod Dyke: Um,
Jarrod Dyke: Oh, I don't either.
Grumpy Old Prop: Unfortunately, I don't think anybody does, but it's just, it's rough.
Jarrod Dyke: Same.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, your guess is good as mine.
Grumpy Old Prop: Cause they're actually likable.
Jarrod Dyke: How can you not award that James Chisholm drop goal, by the way?
Grumpy Old Prop: like
Jarrod Dyke: ah
Grumpy Old Prop: It doesn't matter.
Jarrod Dyke: it It was after the whistle, so...
Grumpy Old Prop: The rule of cool persists.
Jarrod Dyke: it was It was beautiful technique.
Grumpy Old Prop: All right. You know what? Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: It was gorgeous technique. You gotta award that.
Grumpy Old Prop: And he's got a butt cheek for a head.
Jarrod Dyke: Ref.
Grumpy Old Prop: So it's like, come on, man.
Jarrod Dyke: Yes, he does. Yes, he does. No play. I mean, yeah he had a brilliant game on top of a play.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like, you know, there's, there's plenty of the matches that you just like raise your eyebrow. Like, um, did we watch the same game?
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: That one was actually deserved. So I, I give full credit to that. But a real, put a really good game. Um, yeah, the whistle for this game, by the way, I remember.
Grumpy Old Prop: I do not remember either. I don't know if it's on.
Jarrod Dyke: on the site we're using.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Let's see, because I bet you the regular shit house site has it. If I can open it.
Jarrod Dyke: My dog snores so loud. I just got spooked.
Grumpy Old Prop: If it helps, I can't hear him, so.
Jarrod Dyke: I was like, no, I don't i so don't imagine you can, but I have one i have one headphone off.
Grumpy Old Prop: but ah Oh, it's right.
Jarrod Dyke: So I'm just like, I turned around because I could hear him.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: I was like, what the fuck is that? Thought something was in the room.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. He's just, he's just like, dude, tuck it away. Will you? Uh,
Jarrod Dyke: no, I can't see the damn fucking referee. All right. I have to go back for that one. Uh, maybe it's good news. Anyway, I'll dig at that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Fair enough.
Jarrod Dyke: We can go back to other things. We can go to other things.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Um, Let's move. Let's move on to Saturday. Thank you Kingston. Good night.
Jarrod Dyke: So this is the one speaking of referees.
Grumpy Old Prop: Oh, make peace.
Jarrod Dyke: We know who does this one and we know it for a reason because he was here's the thing and I was thinking about this before and like it's it's not the first time we've had we've had this thought in our conversation.
Grumpy Old Prop: Because he sucked. He was awful.
Jarrod Dyke: What is it that premiership and really world rugby in general are doing to uphold standards of these referees? are they I want to believe they're reviewing them.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: I really do. But when guys like make peace turn in a performance like this, oh, the referee up in the tomb was Sarah Cox. So that makes a lot of sense why this was a good game.
Grumpy Old Prop: Ah, there you go.
Jarrod Dyke: Anywho,
Grumpy Old Prop: How do we not remember that?
Jarrod Dyke: um
Grumpy Old Prop: thats Whatever, but move on.
Jarrod Dyke: Well, she did and she did well enough that we didn't need to fucking yell at her like, Jack, maybe mother fuck anyway.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: um
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, it's just i I cannot believe the sheer number of times he totally clocked up what are.
Grumpy Old Prop: But here's so here's the thing, though, and and it'll it'll come up later. um I thought like he didn't care about the breakdown at all, which was massively to sales benefit.
Jarrod Dyke: No, I hate referees like that.
Grumpy Old Prop: It was massively to sales benefit.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, big time.
Grumpy Old Prop: I still don't know what Arthur Clarke did exactly for his yellow. um That was so egregious that it required a yellow. um
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, nobody, no, nobody could figure it out, honestly.
Grumpy Old Prop: But like, Gloucester didn't, it didn't, obviously it didn't hurt him. Or it didn't prevent them from winning.
Jarrod Dyke: No.
Grumpy Old Prop: So, and convincingly too.
Jarrod Dyke: No. Yeah. Cause I mean, 16 point game, like, and it wasn't, they, it wasn't that close.
Grumpy Old Prop: It wasn't that close. yeah Like, if anything, there was 16 points cause, cause make peace kind of kept sail in the game. Um, yeah, I didn't.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. So with, with referees like him, what, though it wasn't terrible.
Grumpy Old Prop: Oh, because that was the, um to who who went for the the mall? That was Vivas, who went for the, um like, okay.
Jarrod Dyke: Who went to the, yeah, the bin. after Rob DiPrio drops to a knee at the front of the mall.
Grumpy Old Prop: You see a 13 in a mall, go to the deck. You know whose fault that is? It's the 13, because he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing in the mall.
Jarrod Dyke: It's the fucking 13.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's not the prop, right?
Jarrod Dyke: No, he doesn't.
Grumpy Old Prop: The prop didn't bring him down. The prop probably put pressure on him and he fell, because you know how to do that, because Forward's train had a mall. And, you know, you know, okay, they're going to put a little bit of downward pressure on you or any kind of pressure on you.
Grumpy Old Prop: You can't fall on your own.
Jarrod Dyke: Mm -hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: And Dupree went to deck first and, and Vivas gets the, the yell like, what the fuck? And that's going to come up again later in this, um, you know, in this weekend review, um, similar thing.
Jarrod Dyke: and
Jarrod Dyke: Right.
Grumpy Old Prop: 13 goes down, yellow, what the fuck? Um, also Robert Dupree, you know, who you are not.
Jarrod Dyke: No.
Jarrod Dyke: Finn Russell.
Grumpy Old Prop: You're not Finn Russell. Don't don't especially, I guess you only got one conversion.
Jarrod Dyke: a He missed every kick after that, didn't he? yeah That's karma biting you in the ass, motherfucker. I'm sorry, and you deserve it 100%.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Deserved. yeah And I'm thinking about this game, and sale fans will fucking jump down my throat and I also don't give a shit.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: I'd say all of three points were deserved by this team.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: I'd say Make Peace was a huge part in all 17 of the others.
Grumpy Old Prop: Then the three tries. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: It really would, like Ben Curry was short, and they didn't review it. I was like, also Andrew Jackson should be nowhere near a game as well.
Grumpy Old Prop: Well, we've known that.
Jarrod Dyke: Like, holy shit, this guy's bad. We're talking about the guy that missed Dan Kelly putting his shoulder to lead Davies a couple of years ago, which should have been a red card.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Right.
Jarrod Dyke: And Kelly eventually got banned for that too, by the way. So it was a clear miss.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm -hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: Ridley fucked that up too. It's also one more reason I don't like him.
Jarrod Dyke: There's so many terrible referees in the premiere ship. Like there's Pierce.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: Carley, Coxey, and Dick Skim when he has a good day.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, on a good day, he's a good ref on a bad day.
Jarrod Dyke: That's it, that's it.
Grumpy Old Prop: He's.
Jarrod Dyke: He's the same level as the other ones.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: And and we and you know like here's the thing, like Leo and Make Peace get the basics wrong a lot.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: They so like they really suck. Ridley and Woodthorpe and you know Dixon on his bad day and a couple others, They can get the basics right for the most part.
Jarrod Dyke: It's the big decisions they really bottle usually.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: And that's what makes them not very good referees. And really, like, if you want to develop those guys, you need to get them in line with like, all right, and here's what you got. Here's where you went with this decision. And really, you kind of screwed it up.
Jarrod Dyke: And ultimately, it's down to them. The TMO is helping. Ultimately, it's down to them. They have the whistle to the one in the middle. They need to make these decisions. And You know, one thing I will say about, um, with Thorpe, there was a couple of times where he, this common sense prevailed and a couple of times that weren't.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: Um, but one, I can't remember what the one was the, I can't remember which one it was where he just said, you know, let's play on. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't him, but it doesn't matter. Um, yeah, there wasn't one, there was one moment where a comment, I don't remember where it was exactly.
Grumpy Old Prop: Oh, there was one. Yeah, no, I know what you're talking about. There was like, it was like could have been a double knock on and it ended up with a team that should have had the ball anyway. And there was the guy that references like, fuck it, play on like who gives a shit?
Jarrod Dyke: No, there there was ah another rep there was another rugby incident that was just like, that's nothing.
Grumpy Old Prop: ah Oh, that sounds right.
Jarrod Dyke: let's let's Let's just move on.
Grumpy Old Prop: I can't remember. I think it was Woodthorpe.
Jarrod Dyke: I can't remember what it was, but I remember just being like, all right, that's common sense.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: and then But then he kind of put one in the other. I'm like, oh, all right, never mind.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: So yeah he did as good with it with it with kind of a bad. So I was like, and never mind. um Like it was like
Grumpy Old Prop: But talk f talk about the bad Gloster though on the good side. I want to talk about the good side because like this is the kind of Gloucester that You know can beat saris and can obviously beat that a beat sale They could they could fucking and beat anybody they can go walk into to Ashton gate and win um against a good bear squad like
Jarrod Dyke: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: Yep.
Grumpy Old Prop: this is This is a scary team. This is not a team to be taken lightly. And um you know I think this is an under certainly ah an underrated Gloucester team, considering um I don't think people are giving them the respect they deserve.
Jarrod Dyke: I think so. Yep.
Grumpy Old Prop: And and ah definitely an overrated sale team. There's just not much there, unfortunately.
Jarrod Dyke: Right.
Grumpy Old Prop: like there's no
Jarrod Dyke: Right.
Grumpy Old Prop: but There's no real threat. i mean So Johnny you're still starting still talking Johnny Hill out here what the fuck Yeah, no It really isn't um, yeah just I don't I Don't get it Alex I don't I don't get what you're trying to do because it's not
Jarrod Dyke: We'll talk, we'll talk about coaching and stuff like that in a minute. So don't you worry, we'll get our chance to that. He came off and that wasn't a bad thing, honestly. It's not a bad thing for rugby in general to see that fuckbag leave this field.
Grumpy Old Prop: Like I understand Steve Diamond better than I understand what you're doing. All right.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Ouch.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, it says a lot, honestly. Well, it stings, right?
Grumpy Old Prop: That was a lot meaner than I meant it to be, but it's the truth.
Jarrod Dyke: ah
Grumpy Old Prop: like but Like I was saying it and I was like, okay, but then I heard it and I was like, oh, that's mean.
Jarrod Dyke: But it's true. ah
Grumpy Old Prop: And I'm like, but wait, I can't say, I can't take it back.
Jarrod Dyke: It's true.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's true.
Jarrod Dyke: You can't, you can't take it back, but it's also true.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: So, you know, I'm one for just giving it straight and saying what I think is true and what I think isn't. So it is what it is. Um, I think one thing that there's two players that were brought in for Gloucester and as well, and one's made a difference clearly for obvious reasons, Thomas Williams.
Jarrod Dyke: The other one is Hanscom, and not so much because he's playing spectacularly. He's being serviceable and solid. What it's done is has is allowed Gloucester to move Santi Carreras back to fullback where he belongs.
Jarrod Dyke: they can stop fucking And I know he has played 10 for Argentina. They have a different thing going on over there.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, it's not the same.
Jarrod Dyke: He needed my outborn at this point, so we can talk about that later.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: um Really, but it has allowed careers to go back to his more natural position where he gets to to have space.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: He gets to see things with a little bit more, you know, distance between him and the defense and make better decisions for himself. And that benefits quite a bit.
Grumpy Old Prop: Worked out all right in this game. Just a little, little, little okay. and
Jarrod Dyke: you
Grumpy Old Prop: And plus it doesn't help, or it doesn't hurt when you have a Hathaway and a Seb Atkinson and a Max Llewellyn on top of Sandy Carreras. Cause it's like, not only does he, is he a good second receiver? First off, Anscombe's doing a great job of getting the ball to the playmakers and to the people who can get the ball to the playmakers. So like, you know, the Harris and Carreras, like both of them, you get the, either than the ball, they got players to work with.
Grumpy Old Prop: around them, and that's what they're very, very good at. um So like to to that end, that's what makes sense to me. like ah um you know I can see what Gloucester are trying to do, and they've been trying to do it, and it just hasn't clicked, because they haven't had that 10, as you said.
Jarrod Dyke: Totally.
Grumpy Old Prop: um But Anscombe is being that guy. And and actually, even even Barton, when he comes on,
Jarrod Dyke: Mm -hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: does it too.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep.
Grumpy Old Prop: it's It's like, you don't need, you know, you don't need a Marcus Smith.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, he's been good.
Grumpy Old Prop: You need ah at least someone who can just distribute the ball and and they've they're getting that and they've got the guys, the horses out wide to run it. um Especially matched up against these, the opposition head like Luke James.
Grumpy Old Prop: and And I'm sorry, we all, as much as we don't like the teams he's played for so much, um we have always been a fan of Tom O 'Flaherty.
Jarrod Dyke: Mm hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: He's not what he used to be.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. No.
Grumpy Old Prop: I think like there may have been like two or three tries that he would have had in this match that he didn't really come close to scoring.
Jarrod Dyke: No.
Grumpy Old Prop: You know, Roebuck and Carpenter are are okay with, but they weren't getting much space either.
Jarrod Dyke: No, they're having a hard time with that.
Grumpy Old Prop: So it's kind of showing how much of a, like you need Aaron Reed out there but to go along with him. Otherwise, you know, those guys can be bottled up too. Like you need, One other runner they don't have it not even from the forwards Like that to me.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: yeah
Grumpy Old Prop: That's the other thing is the loose forwards for for Gloucester um Clement Ackerman Ludlow was uh, um, was it interception and then uh No But I just need to occupy the defenders.
Jarrod Dyke: well um
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. He knew he wasn't finishing that. He's like, nope, I need someone else, but thank you.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's like what do you like commits a tackle commit commit to fucking tackling a god damn it So I can get rid of the ball
Jarrod Dyke: yeah
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, but even so that was like, you know, does do either of the curries do that?
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, who'd he give it to a little while on eventually?
Grumpy Old Prop: Like they're good. They'll, they'll poach a ball. They'll earn a penalty, but other than that, you know, they're not doing that.
Jarrod Dyke: Oh, I plan on having a full on back row discussion once we're done with this whole shit, so don't you worry Don't don't you worry sir?
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, yeah. All right. We'll get, now dead let's, let's move on.
Grumpy Old Prop: what
Jarrod Dyke: um So yeah, but yeah, I mean there was a few there's a few of them in this game um Let's go let's go to Yeah, let's go let's go to welfare drug cuz
Grumpy Old Prop: Let's talk about another beautiful finish.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, I'm talking no i'll talking about the the next match. um
Jarrod Dyke: This was, um and this is an example of why you can't just have the one style like ah Steve Diamond or a Rob Baxter, because there are teams like Luster that can do exactly that, stick it right up right back up your bum, but also move the ball wide and and find space and and get guys to score.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: And they didn't do an amazing job of that this week. But they also had some players that were just better at, you know, pounding it down your throat as well.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: So between those two things, like that was never, that was never going to be a game plan that worked for Baxter. And let's face it, it hasn't worked apart from one match so far.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: And that's because one team kind of just forgot who they were, if we're honest.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: And that's not really good enough in this league anymore.
Grumpy Old Prop: Not so much, no.
Jarrod Dyke: Like maybe it was five years ago, but not no more.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, not anymore. um And to me, again, if I'm going to harp on it again, and I know we're going to keep continue to talk about it, Exeter can be beaten with five players, five key players.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's the back row in the centers. If you have those, and it's funny because I was thinking about like, I was kind of coming to that conclusion, just being done with, you know, what, you know, this is really it.
Grumpy Old Prop: If you have mobile loose forwards that can get around roots and vermulon and fizzle out, which to be honest, none of that's very difficult. Although fizzle out, it's less difficult than it should be.
Jarrod Dyke: He's probably the most athletic of the three, if we're honest, but like he's on the wrong team at this point to develop.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right. But then, but, yeah, and they're getting, you know, Liebenberg, Raffael and Cracdell, who, two of those, yes, are, are you know, and Liebenberg, I think is, actually, I would take Liebenberg over roots, personally.
Jarrod Dyke: So.
Grumpy Old Prop: um
Jarrod Dyke: Yes, same. I'm sad you had to come off this game, but...
Grumpy Old Prop: So it's like, okay, they're they're all, you know, all three of those are ahead of their counterparts. um And I was like, Kata's pretty, pretty mobile when he's not being a helmet. and i like And then, like, as I was having that, you know, going through that line, Dan Kelly had his, like, breakaway.
Grumpy Old Prop: I'm like, even fucking Dan Kelly's in on this. Like, you're letting Dan Kelly beat you?
Jarrod Dyke: Right.
Grumpy Old Prop: Like, it's one thing that when, when you can't keep up with Ollie Cracknell. But if if you you can't, your defense can't keep up with Dan Kelly, you got problems. um I thought he'd scored I don't remember how he didn't exactly but it just was like I guess I kind of Hmm yeah, they scored off of it.
Jarrod Dyke: great I think a tap tackle got him, but eventually was it hassle Collins I got over.
Grumpy Old Prop: I just remember probably that's how he does he's been amazing lately
Jarrod Dyke: I think so. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: He's, but he's had a great season so far compared, certainly compared to last season, like almost night and day. um And you know, I, I'm not, I'm still not overly impressed with him, but I am more impressed this year, but then I have been in the last two years I've watched Ali Krakno by far.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: And I, and again, we talk about, you know, loads of credit going to Michael Cheka, like same, same, like, you know, he's, he's finding ways to bring out some really good qualities in players that are probably mad to some and, you know, look at Freddy Stewart, Freddy Stewart has turned himself into,
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: you know, they don't have for a break. He's probably going to be England's fullback this this fall, this spring. Excuse me. Um, I don't think there's a question about it. Um, I'm not sure who else you put in there. theres There's probably one or two other contenders, but to me he had, he had the Jersey before and he's improved the part of the game.
Grumpy Old Prop: George, Eddie.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: He needs the most grand forthwick style is not going to help him that much, but he has improved the parts of the game that he needed to the most.
Grumpy Old Prop: No.
Jarrod Dyke: And now he's, he's kind of the total package for the sake of international rugby and,
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: I credited a lot of that to Michael Cheka, and that that is a huge, you know, he he does good everywhere he goes.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, and he's.
Jarrod Dyke: Like, you know, and there are days where it's just like, oh, Chex, just shut up and take it.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: But there are a lot of times where you're just like, fuck, he's a good coach. Like, Leinster, Australia, Stauffrancet, like, he does well where he goes.
Grumpy Old Prop: you Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like, there's no question about it. Argentina, like, he does well where he goes. It's hard to deny it.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Even Josh Bassett's playing better.
Jarrod Dyke: Like, I'm a huge fan of,
Grumpy Old Prop: like
Jarrod Dyke: right I'm a huge fan of Cam Henderson right now like in that that those are words I never thought I'd say like holy shit so again what's that I know right I was like well I mean he knew exactly who he was picking on I mean and even cat you know what my wife is sitting there watching this game with me and she's like
Grumpy Old Prop: Ben Young's had a nice try this weekend. Ben Young's had a nice try this weekend. like i mean He did.
Jarrod Dyke: These guys look like they can't get around the field very well and talking about exit.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: I'm almost like, no, because they only have one body type at the most part. And it's these big blockheads that just run at walls. And that's all Baxter's making them do.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like for the guy that called you a cock on the socials, I'm like, are you sure you're not talking about yourself or your coach?
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah That was hilarious. Because Baxter.
Jarrod Dyke: Because really, I think, but I mean, it's the truth.
Grumpy Old Prop: He's not a good coach.
Jarrod Dyke: He's not a, we can give to the coach. talk right now. Like, he's shit.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: He's shit. I don't think like he and Diamond are on the same level for me at this point.
Grumpy Old Prop: I rate diamond higher Yeah, he always on yeah, they're on the same tier But on diamond he he doesn't moan as much though diamond doesn't moan as much at least all fucking Baxter does is wine I and I don't understand why these like everybody runs to Baxter for an opinion on things and it's like this guy doesn't know what the fuck like He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about like everything there's something you know something you know
Jarrod Dyke: i the but well Let's put it in tears. How's that? There you go. Same tier anyway. um the The people that are... No, he doesn't. I know.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, I hate how much air the given these this guy Jesus No There's a common denominator here Rob I hate to tell you there's a common denominator here in how bad your team is It's not it's not because there's a referee in every game.
Grumpy Old Prop: Some referee scotches his balls the wrong way. Oh, this is why we can't win. and It's like, no, dude, you just suck. Shut the fuck up. And. and Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: It's because your team shit and you're bad at it You're bad at your job
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Right. And and you know what? I think, you know, that who is it? The um the card on on Will Rigg that that Baxter was he was moaning about that after the game.
Jarrod Dyke: He's goddamn lucky it wasn't a red.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah it's like he's moaning about it's like well you know what now this is a it's like this explains why you should shut the fuck up or like just maybe not be a coach because you know both of those things because like you don't know what the fuck you're looking at you don't know what you're coaching you don't know the game anymore
Jarrod Dyke: No.
Grumpy Old Prop: So it's like, you don't know the game to the point where you don't know what's actually like, that's an absolutely card worthy offense and, um, like just stop.
Jarrod Dyke: no
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: You're not helping the game in any way.
Jarrod Dyke: No, no.
Grumpy Old Prop: Like you're not even being a good ambassador for the game, which it's like, okay, if you're a bad coach, whatever, like diamond, that's why I kind of read him.
Jarrod Dyke: Nope.
Grumpy Old Prop: higher He's a, he's an ambassador. He tries to get people to like it. I mean, you know, he, he, he, he tries to not exclude people. He tries to.
Grumpy Old Prop: to grow the game and bring enjoyment to it.
Jarrod Dyke: Hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: That's really what it is. He finds joy in it. Fucking Baxter just moans. Shut the fuck up.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, yeah, and and for every time, like even for, here's the thing, you and I are just total toll knuckleheads, there's no question about that, we know we we know it.
Jarrod Dyke: But when it comes to like looking at the weekend performances of our team, Saracens usually is the one that we look at, being able to understand like, all right, even if I don't like what happened with the referee,
Grumpy Old Prop: and
Jarrod Dyke: what the fuck did our team do wrong? And two weeks ago, like there was a ton that the Saracens did wrong.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: There's, was Dixon Gray on the day? Hell no.
Grumpy Old Prop: No.
Jarrod Dyke: But was there a lot that the Saracens did wrong? Oh, fuck yes. Like top of the list is the Toby Knight red card, like, and then just, you know, it's a laundry list from that, but that was just a bloodbath the other week.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: And, you know, the same thing from the Quinn's game thing, same thing from the Newcastle game. Well, I want to be pissed at anybody else. You have to be able to just as a, as a good coach, you have to be able to look inward and say, what did we suck at?
Grumpy Old Prop: Right and fix it.
Jarrod Dyke: Cause there was so probably something that we sucked at. And what did I suck at? You know, even, you know, my, when my boys lose, I'm just like, all right, what could we have done better?
Grumpy Old Prop: And.
Jarrod Dyke: What what do we need to improve on? You know, where did I fuck up?
Grumpy Old Prop: And and you yeah I think we figured out where the series fucked up two weeks ago.
Jarrod Dyke: And then we go forward from there.
Grumpy Old Prop: um It was not starting Tom Willis.
Jarrod Dyke: god Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: We're not playing him even because.
Jarrod Dyke: Oh my god.
Grumpy Old Prop: This guy. um Yeah, he's he's all right.
Jarrod Dyke: He's good. He's really good.
Grumpy Old Prop: He's some kind of okay.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: And they got a Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. well let's Yeah. Let's dive into the stone next. Why don't we? um This was the response they needed desperately for the Saracens to kick this, keep the season kicking on because
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: It's, yeah, I mean, they, they had no choice. if If, if they were going to take that one on the chin and just keep moving forward. Okay. It sucked, but you're responded and that's character right there.
Jarrod Dyke: If they took it, if they took it and then just, just you know, turned into quicksand, forget it, ah the year's gone.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah ah look Yeah That's you know, i I just couldn't imagine that happening not not because of the coaches if anything it's because of the players like There are guys on that team.
Grumpy Old Prop: They just won't let that happen um To me Willis being one of them but like that's the other thing you look through this team and you've got first off mario toji who is
Jarrod Dyke: No, I agree.
Grumpy Old Prop: in well, the way he played in this match, he could be a sex like he had some some line breaks, he had some good runs. um But that's been before the dummy. but What? What?
Jarrod Dyke: it
Grumpy Old Prop: That was hilarious. and like But three three players bought it. Nobody followed him. Nobody he just stayed on him. They're like, OK, they will wanted him to pass the ball because none of them wanted to fucking tackle him.
Jarrod Dyke: No.
Grumpy Old Prop: So. Yeah, but like he's out there and then you have guns, you know, one marching Gonzalez, Ben Earl, Tom Willis. That is a. Who's going to outwork that?
Grumpy Old Prop: Back row.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, on their day, that's that's one of the more formidable back rows in the world, let alone in the premiership.
Grumpy Old Prop: Like. that right. Exactly. That's, like that's like five you in a in a professional club level game. That's like five loose forwards, essentially, like, you're you're just, it's too many, too many hard workers that are going to be all over the place. And again, that to me kind of spelled out this game, because Harding can play. Matza can play a little bit, but he's doesn't have the the mobility exactly. And then there's Lewa to a who
Grumpy Old Prop: doesn't have much in the way of mobility at all. Good player, very smart, very heady, but like when you but all three of those saris are heady too.
Jarrod Dyke: No, it's gone for him, unfortunately.
Grumpy Old Prop: And it's like that heady plus speed beats heady alone.
Jarrod Dyke: Always.
Grumpy Old Prop: And yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: And so I do want to I want to hit on two guys that were wearing black. um One of them is shaking.
Grumpy Old Prop: Hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: He's been it. I would say he's been top three player of the year for the Saracen so far.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, because there's the one is is clear.
Jarrod Dyke: I think I don't.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's not him, unfortunately.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, thus far. Yeah, no, but still just ah amazing for, you know, and you know, we had, we had guys retire, we guys leave and it's just like, who's gonna play wing?
Jarrod Dyke: And my first thought was, well, Roddy's definitely playing. So there's that. This is his chance to shine and he's he's taking it full. He was freaking sticking his shoulder into big Billy Motta like, like it was nothing either.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: It's just like, no, this is old hat, guys.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right. like you're Like the tackle dummy.
Jarrod Dyke: I got this.
Grumpy Old Prop: like ah He's not.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, no shit.
Grumpy Old Prop: He's very much not.
Jarrod Dyke: So, you know, that, ah that I'm, that I'm impressed with for, for his sake, you know, wings don't, not there's a lot of wings. I'll just pay, play patty cake with those guys.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Um, the other thing is I think first perk is feeling pretty at home at this point, you know, missed a couple of games with an injury, but really like been just settling ah so well.
Grumpy Old Prop: I think he had some. Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: and And I'll say I, and we've said it before, Faz, we will never think badly of you, I promise. We love you, we miss you, but we love you, miss you, and how about that?
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah Yeah That's
Jarrod Dyke: And Fergus Burke's a better attacker than Faz ever was. And I think that's pretty evident the way he just, he has this thing for the line.
Grumpy Old Prop: that finish for his second try it was ridiculous, I don't know how I'd like it it It was too Faz might have got one of those
Jarrod Dyke: He, he, he, yep. And then even the first, I thought the first cry i was try was really good too. So it's like, yeah, I, it's,
Grumpy Old Prop: Maybe but not but certainly not both Yeah yeah, that wasn't his his forte exactly Yeah, he did he did New not yet
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, he's just got, he's just got this nose for finding the gap and being able to go for the line. And, you know, Faz does ah many amazing things and there's no question about it. And, you know, to say that you're, that this was not his best, best asset.
Jarrod Dyke: He had moments, he had moments, but, you know, this was not, this is not his thing. And I think that's the element that Fergus Britt brings that he didn't really have. Does he have all the other skillsets that Farrell had?
Jarrod Dyke: Hell no. But, but he's getting there, he's developing and,
Grumpy Old Prop: It's also young. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, he's still, he's still got some age to go. So I, I'm, I'm very happy with the way for Gersberg's playing. If his trajectory continues, the sky's the limit for this team, honestly.
Jarrod Dyke: Now there'll be bumps. We'll, we'll lose a shitty game and we'll get rocked by some team that we didn't deserve, that we shouldn't have been.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. I don't.
Jarrod Dyke: But overall, you know, while progress is not linear, there's going to be some nice progress going on here for serrations that I think most people weren't expecting because of the departure of Farrell.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right. And like this team, I don't think they're a championship team, but that doesn't mean they can't win. It just means that they're not like, I don't like, it's not that I don't see it. It's that I see other teams playing better, but this is also a team that couldn't beat anybody. I think anybody on on any day, they could beat anybody in any competition.
Jarrod Dyke: They could, yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Doesn't mean they will. There's some that I would i would would favor the other team.
Jarrod Dyke: No.
Grumpy Old Prop: But like that doesn't mean that if they if the Sarries won, I'd be like, holy crap, where'd that come from? I'd be like, oh, wow, they did it. Good job. like i just i didn't I didn't expect it, but there it is.
Jarrod Dyke: Awesome, guys. Yeah, exactly.
Grumpy Old Prop: um And that's you know not what I had expected from this team. so
Jarrod Dyke: No, so it was it's it's a certainly um ahead of schedule to say the least.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Um, and on the other side, I thought Worsley played okay while he was in.
Jarrod Dyke: Certainly ahead of where most people had it.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, but they they miss AJ. It's just a different, a different team.
Jarrod Dyke: I mean, you could see this Harrison's defensive game plan very clearly. Lazowski shoot that 13 gap, make him make him beat you elsewhere.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: And they couldn't.
Grumpy Old Prop: They couldn't
Jarrod Dyke: yeah You know, they got a couple, um, maybe 60, 40 penalties, 50, 50 penalties that helped them. But in the end, you know, it wasn't enough by any means whatsoever.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: All right. Uh, the, the game of the weekend.
Grumpy Old Prop: and To the 7 -1 game.
Jarrod Dyke: Oh, I. Bath win this game if they have fucking three backs on the bench. At least two, but definitely three. like yeah So you have a wing on you have a loose forward on the wing, and I love Bayless, but doesn't belong out there, let's be honest.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: like there's There's this thing about, well, you can train a loose forward at wing.
Grumpy Old Prop: He's not Ted Hill.
Jarrod Dyke: There's a huge difference between training someone at wing and having someone that is ah able to do the job out there and knows how to do it in their sleep. And that is a big difference and we'll talk about, yeah, no shit, right?
Grumpy Old Prop: Well, I mean, it's not like Northampton have quality wings. I mean, they're only dealing with who are these guys, Tommy Freeman, James Ram.
Jarrod Dyke: James Ram and George Hendy, although Hendy came off a little early.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, I don't know. That's the thing. Like, yeah. Okay. You put Bayless out there. Look, we're going to be clever. Okay. Pretty sure Ram had a pretty good day. I don't think he would have against a wing.
Jarrod Dyke: He did.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, they like in I think and once mirror came off like and I think coca got another one, but that's only because all the Lawrence is a machine um ah didn't Yeah, didn't you get the chicken wing from Ali Lawrence?
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm -hmm. Yeah. And an inexplicable card. i what What did Alex Mitchell do?
Jarrod Dyke: Get lit up by Holly Lawrence, but yeah, it was this this is where with or disappointed me hugely and I was just like ah You got sold a card dude like
Grumpy Old Prop: ah
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: i Right.
Jarrod Dyke: Hook line and sinker, you were, you were sold a card. Hard to say otherwise.
Grumpy Old Prop: If anything, I thought the card was on um should have been on Lawrence if there was one, because he was the one who was initiating contact and didn't really have a right to be there. He's that he was in front of the ball carrier.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mitchell was not making a tackle. And he wasn't trying to tackle um Lawrence off the ball. It's just like Lawrence came around in front of his the front of the ball. I'm like, what the fuck is going on?
Grumpy Old Prop: I.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, it was a rugby incident.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, at most.
Jarrod Dyke: It's all it was.
Grumpy Old Prop: That's yeah. i didn't get it, but I'm glad it didn't ultimately like, obviously didn't decide the game, so.
Jarrod Dyke: Nope. No, in the end of the, the, you know, I, I, I did pick bath in this game, but the right team won without a doubt. Um, yeah, this is, this is, you know, a kick into Ben Grant's face. I hope that like, yeah, you got to pick some.
Jarrod Dyke: you need backs in your in your but on your bench.
Grumpy Old Prop: You're right.
Jarrod Dyke: like you Imagine if they'd been able to like replace a tire to Jomo with a red path or something like that.
Grumpy Old Prop: and
Jarrod Dyke: And I don't know if red paths hurt or not, but still, like and then a quality wing.
Grumpy Old Prop: And again, your opponent, look at the fucking opponent, like, Kamini Pearson, Augustus, and then who was the, oh, Paula coming on, yeah, he's been okay.
Jarrod Dyke: Mm -hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's like, doesn't matter how many forwards you throw out there. Like, first off, Coles is, is yeah, he's, well, he came off early too, but like, I think he went with a five, two, like, um sorry, six, two, like,
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, they actually got lucky that that worked out for them because they hadn't may I have a new vanilla and coals both come off.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah exactly
Grumpy Old Prop: Exactly Yeah um They did but This still is is a team that's got then they can put to me the Saints can do this because they've got guys like Ram and Freeman and Hendy who they don't have to worry about taking out really and he can play No, unless except and you had to come out because it was hurt um but Okay, I'm sorry Hutchinson Dingwall
Jarrod Dyke: I'm pretty sure.
Jarrod Dyke: So go a little lucky that worked out.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, there's that too.
Grumpy Old Prop: Like you don't need to take them out. You know, Finn Smith's your guy. He's, he's, you know, there's no taking him out at all. So like you can kind of get away with it.
Jarrod Dyke: No, and Alex, Alex Mitchell, you have to drag off the field. So. um
Grumpy Old Prop: Right. You can kind of get away with it. And then yeah, I don't know that, uh, you know, Bailey, a Jomo, like yeah I would want substitutions for both of them, or at least one of them.
Grumpy Old Prop: And and obviously that wasn't available. So.
Grumpy Old Prop: I think that kind of hurt him in the long run too.
Jarrod Dyke: I do too. And, you know, when you're you look at the margins of one points, like where what you could say it was on the field, but at the same time, like the, you know, take the easy, take the easy out first, which is you picked the wrong bench and there's no way around it.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like Tutsia came off early after a shot.
Grumpy Old Prop: He went on and there I came right off. like
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, I think that I think that was the one that was that was the common sense prevailed because he, he he got knocked out by accident. But I don't remember what it was exactly that happened.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: But I remember it being being like, ah that's a rugby incident, guys. There's nothing there. Like he was running off the line, the two guys just collided by accident. And it's just like, there's nothing there.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: Like, you know, there was no he didn't have the ball. But at the same time, like, there was no intent to take that guy take him out.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: It just happened. You know, not everything's a Not everything's a penalty, not everything's a card. like We do need to get beyond that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: like and yeah i want I'm all about player safety.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: I think you and I both know that we're both about about that all day long. But at the same time, it's still a contact sport.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: It's still going to happen.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: It's just how it is.
Jarrod Dyke: So yeah. Common sense did prevail on that one, I i believe. But it's in the end, yeah, right. right right team got over the line.
Grumpy Old Prop: Hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: And despite Finn Smith missing a couple of and shots, I wouldn't have taken myself anyway. I've been like, yeah, no, go, go for sticks and yeah or go for the corner, please.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: Cause they were just, yeah, they just weren't in good spots.
Jarrod Dyke: That's what it is.
Grumpy Old Prop: Well, he was still better than laws from the tea. I don't,
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the, that's probably the one, you know, Kink and the Saracens armor is,
Grumpy Old Prop: I.
Jarrod Dyke: their kicking situation is a little bit,
Grumpy Old Prop: And Burke really not do it. Or is he maybe because of his injury, he's not, he's not really fit to do it yet.
Jarrod Dyke: a little bit of both, I think.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, I think they just need to get one of them hot and ride them. And that's how it's gonna be.
Grumpy Old Prop: Crazy.
Jarrod Dyke: Freezing, boom.
Jarrod Dyke: Okay, so let's do five minutes or less of talking about back row for the English team because
Grumpy Old Prop: Okay.
Jarrod Dyke: You and I are in agreement that Earl's like the best back row for England available. I don't think there's a, and I really don't know if there's a question. I don't think if there is, please elaborate because I don't know where, where that question lies.
Grumpy Old Prop: Well, except maybe Tom Willis, but no.
Jarrod Dyke: Um, yeah, but Bortho won't pick him because he wants guys like Underhill and Curry in there. And I would rate Underhill ahead of either Curry personally.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yes. I agree.
Jarrod Dyke: because he's at least shown the ability to attack and find gaps, even if his favorite thing is to lay wood, which he was doing pretty well this week, I will say that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Who did he skin that? What, look you what key we did he skin?
Jarrod Dyke: He chopped a couple of dudes in a half.
Grumpy Old Prop: And it was called back. I think so.
Jarrod Dyke: Oh, God, and was that the one at at twienum that got called back? I think it was Barrett.
Grumpy Old Prop: That sounds right.
Jarrod Dyke: I think it was Barrett. It was a charge down by laws and he picked it up and ran.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, and just totally. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: So I mean, and then so I think really, if you're if you wanted to actually attack and not be a bunch of boring idiots, you need you need Earl, you need either Willis or Dom brand, and you need cutting himself or one of those other two playing six, that's fine.
Grumpy Old Prop: Hmm. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: um And then one of those ah and then the other one can be off the bench, you could or you could make the argument for Underhill and I'd be okay with that. But there's like, ah curry The curries of the world are a thing of the past, I'm sorry.
Grumpy Old Prop: No.
Jarrod Dyke: like They don't have an attacking bone in their body.
Grumpy Old Prop: no
Jarrod Dyke: Okay, they slow the breakdown down. Who gives a shit? like Every loose forward can do that. It's so much different to, I compare it to being a game manager at fly half.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: like All right, you can learn how to manage games and win games as a fly half.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: But the amount of like the amount of time attacking talent that Marcus Smith possesses is not something you can teach.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: That is something that is just, you know, natural instinct. So again, same idea.
Grumpy Old Prop: Well, you can eat cheap, but you don't have the it's rare to have someone with the athletic ability to execute it who can also rip manage the game as far as distribution because a lot of those guys they grow up and they're like, Oh, you're so good.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Just run with the ball.
Grumpy Old Prop: But Marcus also has that, I'm going to put it on a dime where exactly where it needs to be and and let you know let someone else hit the gap and then we'll finish it from there.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: The point is, like they're in baseball, there's a thing called a five five -tool player.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Mm -hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: And it's like, they can hit, they can hit for power, um they can field, they can throw, and they can run the bases.
Jarrod Dyke: Speed. Mm -hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: And it's like, you take when you can find a five -tool player, you keep them as much as you can. And it's like, you look at a guy like ah like the Curry's who are like two tool people, you know, they can, they can run a little bit.
Grumpy Old Prop: They can defend.
Jarrod Dyke: Breakdown and tackling, that's it.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But like, they don't have, they they can't pass very well. They don't run well ball in hand.
Grumpy Old Prop: like, they're okay at set piece, they're not anything massive. um No, like, it's not like, oh, you know, they're but they're, they're really good at the line on jumping.
Jarrod Dyke: Special, no.
Jarrod Dyke: No, they're not that tall, so it doesn't help them.
Grumpy Old Prop: and It's like, not bad, but it's, it's not. It's not a difference maker, right? So why would you not take someone one like a Tom Willis or a Dom Brandt who, yes, they have their problems in at times, but like, and to the point about the the slowing the breakdown down.
Grumpy Old Prop: Okay, well that's, you know, the game is built on fast breakdowns. So you need someone who can slow it down. Well, yes, but if all they can do is slow it down, you're not gonna slow down every single one.
Grumpy Old Prop: That person's not gonna be there for every, so you're still gonna have to deal with fast ball, so fucking learn to deal with fast ball.
Jarrod Dyke: No.
Grumpy Old Prop: Or find other people who can run and slow the ball down because they got again Back to Tom Willis back to an Alex Dombrandt Chandler cunning himself like he's one of those guys whos gonna make a big fucking tackle and then start their Counterrock all by himself and slow that ball down because he's gonna take it's gonna take three people to drive him off the ball If he gets a little bit of a nudge forward Curry's don't do that.
Jarrod Dyke: Oh, yeah. Yep.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep, absolutely.
Grumpy Old Prop: Kerry if they if they don't have it they just pop out like
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, I don't know.
Grumpy Old Prop: where they get a penalty.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, there there'll be a thing of the past in the next year or two, honestly, like totally because I just I don't, I don't see how that becomes such a difference maker to the point where you can't take a attack a good attacking, you know, general being probably what was a kind of a lot of raw talent, great attacker, and then you turn them into this absolute asshole around the break down top of it.
Grumpy Old Prop: and Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, right.
Jarrod Dyke: And now you've now you've got you know, England's best back rower hands down.
Grumpy Old Prop: ki chaot
Jarrod Dyke: Are, is every one of them going to turn into Ben Earl? No, but like you can put points on the, ask Australia if you should be able to put more points on the board.
Grumpy Old Prop: Can we also talk about the fatal flaw?
Jarrod Dyke: Tell me about that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, exactly.
Jarrod Dyke: You know, which is not good.
Grumpy Old Prop: And there's there's the biggest fatal flaw that we haven't even come close to discussing, which is what is England's current defensive philosophy?
Grumpy Old Prop: the blitz defense, right? ah it's So what they wanna do with the blitz defense is you wanna keep the ball in tight, right?
Jarrod Dyke: Right.
Grumpy Old Prop: When you keep the ball in tight, when you keep it you know close, that means youre the players are not, the ah the ah you know the opposition, they're not running away from their support, which means the support's there quickly, which means, yes, they they're gonna have ah a little bit of a slow rock naturally from that, but it also means that you have very little opportunity to poach,
Grumpy Old Prop: And you have very little opportunity to slow the ball breakdown down. Cause they're just the the other team outside of having to go backwards a little bit. so Sometimes they, well, a lot of times they don't. Um, a lot of times they're breaking the line because of it, but like, it just negates the whole idea of all you bring the curries in to, to slow the ball down.
Grumpy Old Prop: Like you don't need that. You're like, you're doing it naturally with your blitz defense. So wouldn't you want more of a thumper and, and like a CCS who that again, can then run with the ball.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep.
Grumpy Old Prop: Like.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. He knows he's shown the ability to find space and, you know, and do an attack.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right. It's horse and tries.
Jarrod Dyke: Well, like he doesn't need a, you know, a two meter fall over try or a, you know, half the field to run at.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right. I wish he can also do, he can do those things too, because a lot of good players can.
Jarrod Dyke: Yes. Most, most players can, most players can.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right. But that's not, of course, not one of the tools like fall over tries. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Okay. Thank you. Day viewers. Great.
Jarrod Dyke: Got the got that nailed down, you guys.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Don't worry. Got that one nailed down. All right. Let's get into our superlatives for the week. ah Outdid themselves.
Jarrod Dyke: We talked about a few guys already, probably, but guys, I have it.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm -hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: We haven't mentioned Orlando Bailey.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, he he played well.
Jarrod Dyke: I thought he played really well getting chucked into a tough spot in that mix and the in the full back spot, so.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm -hmm.
Grumpy Old Prop: And then, you know, Max Llewellyn absolutely outdid himself um at wing where he's normally a center.
Jarrod Dyke: Anybody else? Yep, yep, another one. That's a good one. Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: um
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. And what should have been a mismatch, but was not, well, it was a mismatch just the other way.
Jarrod Dyke: No. And I mean the other way. Uh, yeah, we already talked about Maro Burke, uh, Finn Smith, chi Chisholm we mentioned already.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Uh, anybody else that we're missing here?
Grumpy Old Prop: ah Thomas Williams.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep.
Grumpy Old Prop: um Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep.
Grumpy Old Prop: um um I think that's it.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. Agreed. Um, shout it. I mean, make peace.
Grumpy Old Prop: make piece, Exeter in general, um kind of sale in general.
Jarrod Dyke: Yes.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. Same. Thought really was. Yeah, I thought Ridley was pretty shit this week too, for the most part.
Grumpy Old Prop: JLDP was a dick, if I remember correctly, yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Asshole. Yeah, he was. You fucking punched Ludlow and and then Luke Cowendicki.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: So here's the thing about the make peace thing one more time. Luke Cowendicki is the third man in on that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: He should have been he should have been penalized and that and whatever happened after that should have been totally nullified.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: and make pieces. And that's the thing about like being a ah good referee, you have to have a fucking strong backbone and just be like, no, this is happening.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: I'm not putting up with that bullshit. This is why I do appreciate Carly to a point where he just tells players that's not happening. Go fuck yourself. Hell, he against you. Like I'm I'm all for that. turn Certainly to a point because there's no need for that shit.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Like I'm all for the, you know, the RG barge and who, you know, inviting someone over for dinner. But if you're going to be the third man in and try and pin someone down the ground, like a dickhead, I'm not into that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: Go fuck yourself. So, um, yeah. And Bobby do was for shushing and then missing every kick after that.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: You can, you can just sit on and rotate, bro. Um, uh, ref coach, young player.
Grumpy Old Prop: No ref this week. Don't care.
Jarrod Dyke: I gave it to Coxie.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, I just the default in a way. um So.
Jarrod Dyke: Right, you're not wrong, you're not wrong.
Grumpy Old Prop: um
Jarrod Dyke: um bre a young but Coach, excuse me, Jesus, I can't talk.
Grumpy Old Prop: Coach has to be skips This is this is another massive win for him another feather in his cap.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: Um, his seat turns this down a little bit Yeah um Not like that, but he's in touching distance for for top four he's a head of sail quins and Saints and
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, it does. There was some, he was definitely one of those, he was definitely one I was thought would be sacked by week four and has not, so I give him a lot of credit.
Grumpy Old Prop: I mean, that's, did you have that on your bingo board?
Jarrod Dyke: Pretty good.
Grumpy Old Prop: Cause I did not Llewellyn.
Jarrod Dyke: I didn't. Nope. I didn't young player.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep.
Grumpy Old Prop: He's, I think he's still, uh, I think he came on a little bit last year, but not too, too much.
Jarrod Dyke: Good one.
Grumpy Old Prop: And, but damn this year.
Jarrod Dyke: No, nobody knew as much about them about him to see what they did before.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: And I want to, I got to throw Henry Pollock into the mix only because he needs to get a call from Borthwick.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm -hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: Like if you're going to be smart England, you need to get this guy cap like immediately.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. and Like now.
Jarrod Dyke: You don't want to get, don't let him get away and get him involved. He's so talented and he's just a baby. Like kick either Curry to the shed and put this kid into the 15 into the 23, not into the 15, but into the 23 and just let him, let him perform as a naturally talented back rower that he is.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right. That's all that's what is for. That's what Italy is for.
Jarrod Dyke: e Exactly.
Jarrod Dyke: And then... Oh, try the weak. I mean, I think we're both gonna pick the same one.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, it's it's the the Willis finish after Maro dummy and our intercept.
Jarrod Dyke: The Willis finish after tomorrow's intercept.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, the they went 90 like fucking 99 meters um With like four players touching the ball that's that's fun and two of them Yeah
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, they were the long way.
Jarrod Dyke: Someone gave me shit because I didn't like the way Collie was referring. And I, my response was, Oh, I'm sure they just totally fabricated that first. Well, let's try that. Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Okay, dude. Chill Bristol. Weren't that good.
Grumpy Old Prop: No, unfortunately they were not.
Jarrod Dyke: Let's be honest.
Grumpy Old Prop: um
Jarrod Dyke: Um, there's that, uh, play the player of the week.
Grumpy Old Prop: Player of the week. um I think I'm giving it to Thomas Williams, to be honest. um I thought he, you know, the try was a nice cap in it, but um he's really making that Gloucester team go.
Jarrod Dyke: Nice.
Grumpy Old Prop: I mean, and obviously there's a theme with with mine because I thought Gloucester were the team that impressed me the most this weekend. That certainly the best win, biggest win um of any team.
Grumpy Old Prop: And, um, and it it wasn't, you know, it was due to i so many players having, you know, massive shifts. And I don't think he's been, he's been, he surprised me.
Grumpy Old Prop: I remember when, when we saw the, the, the Thomas Williams signing and we were kind of like, okay, manh um I, I'm putting my hand up.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. yeah Oh yeah. Agreed.
Grumpy Old Prop: I was wrong about that.
Jarrod Dyke: Agreed. Same. Same. Wasn't overly impressed with the idea, but na he's he shut me up.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yep Fair enough.
Jarrod Dyke: No question. Um, well, I'm going to give it to the guy. We were just talking about Tom Willis.
Grumpy Old Prop: There's nothing wrong with that. You had a bit of a day yeah, and mine was
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. No, I got him in a monster game and just, yeah, guy needs all the credit in the world. Cause the other guy that is Dick of the week, we need to stop giving him any fucking air. And that's Rob Baxter.
Jarrod Dyke: Go fuck yourself, dude. Shut up.
Grumpy Old Prop: And mine there was uh, it was rob dupree for the shush dude When you're down 12 points at half like no dude shush you shush you're the one who should shush You down 12 and you're shushing the good no This is not this is not the way i'm all for i'm all for
Jarrod Dyke: Who's yours?
Jarrod Dyke: fair That's a good one too. that's a That's a fair one too. Oh, that's true. I completely forgot that was also the case too. Oh, that's bad. That is bad. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Grumpy Old Prop: Interaction like that, but all that does all that tells everybody is that they're in your head and they're they're winning not you Mm -hmm Yeah Yeah
Jarrod Dyke: in your head as the, so as the staff has liked to say. All right. Uh, we got, um, pick them. It's we're, we're back into champions cup. Big, big two weeks coming here. Big two weeks coming here for a lot of teams. Yeah. Well, teams that actually want this once with that way, some teams are already packing it in probably. Maybe, maybe not. Guess I'll find out.
Jarrod Dyke: Anyway, um start with Glasgow Rassing Friday night in Glasgow.
Grumpy Old Prop: Glasgow.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, same.
Grumpy Old Prop: I think wrestling or wrestling are having trouble.
Jarrod Dyke: I think Rassing are fucked. Well, and they also, yeah, and they just, they had a little incident after they lost a sale where Camille Shaw was dismissed almost immediately or at least asked to leave the team immediately.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yep.
Jarrod Dyke: So yeah, that's not good.
Grumpy Old Prop: No.
Jarrod Dyke: They had another guy that got suspended for like a week. I was like, Jesus, guys.
Grumpy Old Prop: I and to to the sad part is that I've i've seen that um A lot of people are saying that like the biggest mistake signing of the season has been Owen Farrell too. um He's not providing them much.
Jarrod Dyke: which I find weird, but I mean, okay.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Well, something's wrong.
Jarrod Dyke: I also haven't watched a ton of, I also haven't watched a top launch ton of top 14 to be fair.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: So it's a, it's different.
Grumpy Old Prop: No. Yeah. But apparently he's been quite not good.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. Also it's Lancaster.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah. Who knows if it's.
Jarrod Dyke: he He may not be a good coach honestly.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: ah And then, and I was excited for wrestling when they signed him and I was excited for him when they signed him, but. Give it more than a year though.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, exactly.
Jarrod Dyke: Give it time. Both situations, both situations.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's just a shame at the moment.
Jarrod Dyke: Give it more than a year.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, it's a brand new thing to both.
Grumpy Old Prop: It's just disappointing is all. That's all. it's i'm i'm not ah you know I'm not like, certainly not gloating.
Jarrod Dyke: It is, oh, extremely.
Grumpy Old Prop: We don't want that to happen. it's I'm just shocked that it's happening.
Jarrod Dyke: No, not at all. Yep, not at all. Oh yeah, here it is. So I'm just looking at the custody incident. Like Fraser Dingwall was watching um his teammates, uh, it was truck and, and Lawrence tackle in a tackle.
Jarrod Dyke: And I think he was thinking about probably going into make a poach on Lawrence. If he got into position the whole time, he was looking at the ball. He's not even looking at cut to you.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah, yep.
Jarrod Dyke: That's what it was. and And the, the, I think the TMO was Jackson and who I've talked about how I, I just hate as a referee TMO in general. Um, but with talk to him out of it and common sense prevailed.
Grumpy Old Prop: Stormers.
Jarrod Dyke: So. There's that. Anyway, digress. Stormer sale.
Grumpy Old Prop: stormer
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. In South Africa, yes.
Grumpy Old Prop: yeah
Jarrod Dyke: Fuck sticks in Bordeaux.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah The away team or no Well, cuz who'd have acted who I said I have left they're Running on they you know, the their shitty strategy aside they they're fucking losing everybody so I'm
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah, Bordeaux.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah. And they're on a donut in this one right now, too, you I think. It doesn't really help them. Shocks and to lose.
Grumpy Old Prop: guessing it's gonna be sharks
Jarrod Dyke: I'm picking to lose.
Grumpy Old Prop: i Don't know who to lose is gonna bring and I don't know that they need this one.
Jarrod Dyke: I'm, I honestly, it doesn't matter.
Grumpy Old Prop: Oh fair enough We're fair enough, yeah, I Think months monster take this one.
Jarrod Dyke: It also doesn't matter. I'm backing that machine the whole fucking way right now. Cause until they prove me wrong, I'm just gonna back it. So yeah, I'm backing to lose.
Jarrod Dyke: Big one for our boys, Munster and Saracens. I don't. I don't know how the boys, if they pull it off, I'm happy to be wrong, but yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: I Well, so
Jarrod Dyke: nothing Trust me, nobody's going to dance harder than me if that happens.
Grumpy Old Prop: I think Saris are going to be content for three wins out of four.
Jarrod Dyke: Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: that's i'm i'm i'm a I'm thinking they they go light away on this one.
Jarrod Dyke: I think, and I think they, I think they'll get it.
Grumpy Old Prop: That's just what I'm envisioning.
Jarrod Dyke: They may, they may happy with a point or so if they can muster it.
Jarrod Dyke: Stade Francais in North Hampton.
Grumpy Old Prop: ah I got Northampton.
Jarrod Dyke: sam Same. Same. Yeah. They've shown some stones in this tournament already.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: And last week is well granted. They took a beating. They, if, if they can go down to the balls and beat this team in, ah beat that team down there, they can go to pairs and beat this team when we've done, we've already done it and we didn't have to do the other hard part, which should go down to South Africa.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm. Right.
Jarrod Dyke: So give them, give them a lot of credit for that one. So yes, that's not hit on that one. Lester Ulster.
Grumpy Old Prop: Lester.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. Same. Ulster in trouble.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: Castables.
Grumpy Old Prop: Bulls.
Jarrod Dyke: Same. Yeah, this is kind of their last shot. They got to win this.
Grumpy Old Prop: Mm hmm.
Jarrod Dyke: Cast aren't, they weren't overly impressive in that monster one, let's be honest.
Jarrod Dyke: ah Sunday, Toulon and Quinn's.
Grumpy Old Prop: Uh, too long.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. If this was inverse, I might pick Quinn's the way they've been playing, but nope. La Rochelle Leinster.
Grumpy Old Prop: Uh, La Rochelle.
Jarrod Dyke: This will be a tasty one.
Grumpy Old Prop: I got La Rochelle. I got the hosts.
Jarrod Dyke: I'm gonna, um I'm gonna go with boys from Dublin.
Grumpy Old Prop: Fair enough.
Jarrod Dyke: The weather looks good. So that'll back them. Grand, La Rochelle can do that too.
Grumpy Old Prop: Right.
Jarrod Dyke: But yeah, I think Leinster will have it. Keown Doris is my ex factor for them. um Bristol and Benetton.
Grumpy Old Prop: I'm going to go with Bristol.
Jarrod Dyke: Same.
Grumpy Old Prop: I don't really, really it's cause they're home. I don't know what Benetton is going to spend.
Jarrod Dyke: Yep. That's that, if this was in Italy, forget it.
Grumpy Old Prop: Yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: I'd pick bad and all day and I would assume Bristol would send nobody, but especially since they're a little bit banged up, but since they're at home. Yeah.
Grumpy Old Prop: The bath.
Jarrod Dyke: The Athens Claremont. This one's interesting to me.
Jarrod Dyke: I'm going to take the French.
Grumpy Old Prop: You do that.
Jarrod Dyke: ah need they I think them, like Saracens, want three out of four as well.
Grumpy Old Prop: I just don't know that, I don't think that's gonna be very easy for them to to walk into the wreck and and take it. So that's, yeah.
Jarrod Dyke: No, i'm I'm not, trust me, I'm not saying it's gonna be that.
Grumpy Old Prop: I mean,
Jarrod Dyke: think I think this is a ah place that they that Claremont really want to thrive, and I know top 14's not always been their jam in terms of where they finished in that league. but this is like their thing when they're playing in this competition, they want to do well on it. So, um, I don't, they're not going to send the shacks. I can tell you that much. At least that's my guess.
Jarrod Dyke: Okay. All right. There's that. Um, man, it's just been that one a little bit long, but that's okay. Uh, we're going to hop over to fancy corner right now and we're going to, Do a little bit of champions cup, start sit and all that good stuff.
Jarrod Dyke: Um, if we you're not coming over there, enjoy the third round champions cup and we'll catch you guys next week. Other than that, thank you very much for listening to us. Everyone have a good one.
Grumpy Old Prop: Later.
Jarrod Dyke: Cheers.
