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ICE vs Ice On the Ground in Minneapolis
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In this episode, we speak with some organizers involved in anti-ICE resistance at the peak of the show-downs in Minneapolis, one week after ICE agents killed Renee Good, and 20 minutes after Julio Cesar Sosa-Celis was shot. We discuss some of the ways that people in the city are escalating their engagement with ICE, how local police are engaging (or not) with ICE activity, and ways that people elsewhere can best support Minneapolis and prepare for further crackdowns in their own cities.
Please check out the links below for ways to support people on the ground in Minneapolis right now:
-Venmo @mplsfamilysupport to support young mothers whose families have been ruptured by ice abductions. They are being faced with caring for their children alone, while not being able to work or leave their homes for fear of being disappeared as ICE raids continue to escalate.
-Venmo @twincitiessolidarity to help buy supplies and community infrastructure for ongoing mutual aid efforts in the face of the ICE siege
-Venmo @Chef-Collective-1123 or CashApp $ChefCollective1123 to source supplies for increasing requests for Shelter in Place Grocery Packs (coming in with greater frequency as people run out of food at home)
-https://www.standwithminnesota.com/ (links to a bunch of crowdfunding and direct fundraising asks, in order of most need)
Current raffle fundraisers — (close Jan 28th)
-https://www.instagram.com/p/DTixS5tFWgo/?img_index=1
-https://www.instagram.com/p/DTdoCR7iSA-/?img_index=1
Please check out the links below for recent articles on ICE raids and rapid response networks in the Twin Cities:
-"Rapid Response Networks in the Twin Cities: A Guide to an Updated Model" https://crimethinc.com/2026/01/15/rapid-response-networks-in-the-twin-cities-a-guide-to-an-updated-model
-"North Minneapolis Chases Out ICE: A Firsthand Account of the Response to Another ICE Shooting" https://crimethinc.com/2026/01/15/north-minneapolis-chases-out-ice-a-firsthand-account-of-the-response-to-another-ice-shooting
-"Minneapolis Responds to ICE Committing Murder: An Account From the Streets" https://crimethinc.com/2026/01/08/minneapolis-responds-to-ice-committing-murder-an-account-from-the-streets
Check out further reading about the Prairieland Case, several people facing charges related to an anti-ICE demo in Texas:
-https://haters.noblogs.org/post/2025/12/11/beneath-the-prairie-the-concrete/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:11
Speaker
Hello. You're listening to The Beautiful Idea. a podcast from a collective of several anarchist and autonomous media producers scattered around the world. We're bringing you interviews and stories from the front lines of autonomous social movements and struggles, as well as original commentary and analysis.
Resources and Mutual Aid Fundraisers
00:00:29
Speaker
Follow us on Mastodon and at thebeautifulidea.show.
00:00:46
Speaker
Hi, y'all. Before we run the tape for today's show, I just wanted to pop in at the top and add a few brief notes, including where and how to help provide immediate support to folks in Minneapolis right now.
Shooting Incident Involving ICE
00:00:56
Speaker
We recorded the interview you're about to hear with comrades in Minneapolis on the evening of Wednesday, January 14th, 2026, about 20 minutes after the first reports were coming out about federal ICE agents shooting another person in the city.
00:01:10
Speaker
The Department of Homeland Security's official report claims that Julio Cesar Sosa Celis, originally from Venezuela. was shot in the leg defensively by ICE agents after he allegedly fled from a, quote, targeted traffic stop, end quote, and then attacked agents with a shovel or broomstick, along with two other people outside of a house.
00:01:29
Speaker
But Sosa Celis' relatives say that he was shot at the door of the house, not out in the street during a scuffle. They also say that Sosa Celis was not the man that ICE agents had initially attempted to arrest at a traffic stop. According to the Washington Post, Sosa Celis opened the door to let his friends inside,
00:01:46
Speaker
and as he went to close the door, an ICE officer shot him in the leg. After shooting chemical weapons into the house where Sosa Celis and several other people, including at least one small child, were seeking refuge, ICE agents detained him and two other Venezuelan people on the scene.
00:02:03
Speaker
Shortly afterwards, a large crowd gathered in the area. Multiple live streams of the incident show that despite federal agents firing several rounds of tear gas, several ICE vehicles were immediately raided and destroyed.
00:02:15
Speaker
We're going to play the interview in a minute, but we also wanted to direct your attention to the show notes of today's episode, where you can find a link to a bunch of direct mutual aid fundraisers and crowdfunding campaigns. Standwithminnesota.com is a great starting point.
00:02:29
Speaker
You can also find a couple links to some direct raffle fundraisers that the people we interviewed passed to us, one specifically for single moms impacted by recent ICE raids and another for impacted families.
Autonomous Anti-ICE Organizing Across the U.S.
00:02:40
Speaker
You can also find an article called Rapid Response Networks in the Twin Cities that was published on CrimeThink.com shortly after we did this interview. It provides a helpful rundown of how ICE resistance has developed and evolved in the Twin Cities over the past few months. and is a little more detailed than the other Crime Think piece I mentioned at the top of this recording.
00:02:59
Speaker
It's a useful guide for people in other cities who are experimenting with how to best prepare for more ICE crackdowns.
Interview with Minneapolis Organizers
00:03:05
Speaker
Finally, we wanted to let you know that this interview is part of a series of similar conversations that we're working on building out with people organizing autonomous anti-ICE efforts all over the country, from New Orleans to Chicago and beyond.
00:03:17
Speaker
So stay tuned for more in the coming weeks. Alright, that's it for announcements. Thanks.
00:03:37
Speaker
Thanks to both of you for speaking with the beautiful idea. Today, we're going to be talking with comrades in Minneapolis about what autonomous anti-ICE organizing has looked like there, both before and since the murder of Renee Good by an ICE agent on January 7th, 2025.
00:03:51
Speaker
twenty twenty five We're recording this exactly a week later. Yeah. So thanks for being here to both of you. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah. Glad to be here. Thanks. Can you introduce yourselves however you would like to be known to our listeners?
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, hi all. I'm Jelly. I use they or she pronouns. I am a caregiver based in Minneapolis. I'm an organizer based in Minneapolis. I've lived here for about eight years after moving from Chicago and was pretty involved in other resistance movements in Minnesota around 2021, 2020, and have really found a home base here.
00:04:28
Speaker
been organizing with with my friend Loam here. And hello, I'm Lom. I'm also an organizer based in Minneapolis. I've been involved in union work and other social organizing for the last many years, primarily on the East Coast. But I moved back to Minneapolis several months ago and have been involved in the ground for the last dont know month or so of of the siege.
Community Resistance Tactics
00:04:51
Speaker
Yeah, thanks to both of you for for jumping on. There was a report that was recently published on CrimeThink describing the experience of someone who was in Minneapolis and doing anti-ice work on the morning that Renee Goode was killed.
00:05:06
Speaker
The account mentions a number of ways the community resistance to ice has been pacified, as well as a number of instances, especially in the wake of her killing, where antagonism and illegality and open opposition to state forces has become more explicit.
00:05:25
Speaker
And so I wanted to give like a few examples of what I'm talking about and then ask you all a little bit more about about this kind of activity. But basically, some of the examples of pacification that are mentioned in this article include like rapid response dispatchers telling people not to go to the scene of an abduction or patrol trainings that tell people to stay at least 30 feet away from ICE at all times.
00:05:50
Speaker
And there's this isn't mentioned explicitly in that piece, but they're sort of talking about the conflation of two different things. One is like informing people about what their risks and rights are in a given situation versus deciding for them and telling them what kinds of risks they therefore should or shouldn't take.
00:06:09
Speaker
And, you know, that that all also lends itself to like a conflation of individual risk with collective risk or discouraging people to examine the ways that individual risk taking impacts and often diminishes collective risk.
00:06:24
Speaker
So that's sounds like that's been happening somewhat in Minneapolis, according to this to this writing. And that there's this culture of referring to anti-ICE activists as observers, which is sort of like passive or pacifying language. It also talks about how groups are focusing less and less on strategic tactics without room for adjustment. So um like the example that was given is like collecting plate numbers instead of just conducting like foot patrols after there's like 2000 more agents
00:06:57
Speaker
in the city. And so agents are going to be a lot easier to find and like putting new data into this system on like plate numbers isn't necessarily the most like efficient thing to do with people's time right now. So then like some of the examples sort of conversely from that, some of the examples of escalation that they talk about are like people blocking ICE vehicles on Portland Ave, people shouting like cops, pigs, murderers,
00:07:20
Speaker
People rapidly mobilizing to provide mutual aid and health care in the face of immediate attacks from the state. There's this like example of somebody going and like taking a shower at a stranger's house after they've been like attacked by ICE.
00:07:33
Speaker
And then there's like large numbers of small protests, it sounded like, it at least in the immediate aftermath, flaring up all over the the cities and how that's making it impossible for for the authorities to to react to all of them.
00:07:50
Speaker
So these are all, like I thought, really interesting examples of like pacification and escalation at the same time. And i was wondering if you guys could talk a little bit about some of the ways that these tendencies, the you know the pacification on one hand and escalation on the other, have shifted or engaged with one another in the last week in Minneapolis. And like you know are people having explicit conversations about how pacification can be harmful in defeating ICE or like our are people shifting their behaviors or like things that were previously not okay suddenly becoming more normalized.
00:08:27
Speaker
Kind of curious to hear from you all since you've been on the ground about what you're seeing. Jelly, do you want to start with that? Yeah, I can do my best. i think in some way, i don't know if those are always like opposing to each other. i see a lot of those things happen in almost like a a necessary way. When people are confronting ICE, whether they're legal observers, whether they're patrolling and commuting behind, they're the ones that are holding violence in their hands. And I think that's a really important
00:08:58
Speaker
viewpoint to continue to bring forth to the media and other things. Our neighbors are also helping each other regulate their bodies when they're encountering ICE, showing up as backup, offering food and shelter after an encounter, offering tea, food. like it's It's astounding how our neighbors show up for each other here. And I think that that unity is really what's holding the glue at this point on the ground in Minneapolis is that like we're all looking out for each other. i think that there are some folks who think that we can still win this fight in a passive way.
00:09:36
Speaker
and I think that that can be definitely harmful. I think that There's a lot of folks who in Minneapolis are really against that. And there has been escalation for sure with more direct actions, more, you mentioned like blocking in ICE vehicles.
00:09:53
Speaker
You know, we've had discussions about this, like when we know that they have someone in those vehicles, like they're not leaving. don't want them to leave until they release those people from the vehicle. And so how do we get really serious about the
Empowering Diverse Groups for Resistance
00:10:06
Speaker
strategy behind that? And how do we also keep people safe in the process?
00:10:10
Speaker
Did you want to add on to that at all, Lom? I think there has been obviously like incredibly fluid and ever-changing goalposts in these last couple weeks as we have added thousands more officers onto the streets.
00:10:25
Speaker
and people obviously have been murdered. And i think the tactics day to day are just like, it's been an absolute about face. I think there is a lot of reason to be proud of infrastructure that's grown around rapid response networks.
00:10:40
Speaker
And I think there's also a fair critique for how they're being run. I think a lot of the things that you mentioned um are frustrations that have come up in the city, this is obviously a very big tent issue in town and there's a lot of competing perspectives.
00:10:53
Speaker
And with that comes a lot of peace policing. I think the the nature of the rapid response networks means that there are kind of self-appointed people who are taking on some you know pretty heavy roles that are put themselves in like incredibly emotionally distressing places and sometimes make people feel responsible for potentially you know fatal interactions that folks are having with ICE agents on the ground.
00:11:16
Speaker
And sometimes anxieties around, I think, perceived responsibility for that person's individual risk they're taking. has you know certainly led to folks being asked to stand down in moments of what could otherwise be really powerful escalation.
00:11:31
Speaker
I think that's even extended in this last couple of days to telling people not to trail ICE agents onto the freeway where they can easily lose anyone or can also you know help take more observers to another abduction. So I think there's a plethora of examples of you know kind of that pacification occurring in rapid response networks.
00:11:50
Speaker
But another i think another dynamic that's at play that folks are kind of realizing as these weeks go on is kind of a a sense of of lawlessness when it comes to ICE interactions, because it's becoming very apparent that these are these are not real law enforcement ah officers in you know any sense of the word, other than that they have a badge.
00:12:09
Speaker
And while they're obviously you know very ready to use fatal force, their ability to actually you know charge and make mass arrests are very, very limited.
00:12:19
Speaker
And so I think there's these and like incredible moments of protagonization where folks are doing cool and rowdy things on the streets that are moving the bar because we're realizing just how neutered these pigs are.
00:12:31
Speaker
And I think that that's, I think, ah particularly salient in the Minneapolis context. where obviously everyone here went through the uprisings just you know five, five and a half years ago.
00:12:42
Speaker
And also the local police department did. And I think MPD is relishing this moment which they feel that they cannot be the bad guy. And I can't speak for everyone here,
00:12:53
Speaker
But what I can say is through ah my experience in doing response work, it's I've been quite surprised with how little MPD presence we're seeing. And I think that one allows for people to take heightened risks. And I think, know, obviously a police department that is like just as bastardized and deplorable as ever.
00:13:12
Speaker
is kind of getting off on this moment where they can point to another group of murderers and say, you know, we're not them and are kind of laying off the case, which, ah you know, to my broader point is allowing for people to take increased risk and ah yeah, do cool and exciting stuff, even when sometimes the dispatcher is telling you to to lay off.
00:13:32
Speaker
I think part of what Lom and I's shared organizing is working towards is like gathering folks who are of similar age and demographic as us, you know, 20-somethings white folks who are usually some form of genderqueer, and getting them to a place where they don't believe that they have to follow everything that the dispatcher is telling them to do necessarily in the streets, like getting them prepared and ready to like go out in affinity groups and let move autonomously.
00:14:03
Speaker
Like we simply cannot have the big, right? You described this big big tent thing. You know, Minneapolis is overwhelmingly a blue city. We cannot move in ah in a in a group way.
00:14:15
Speaker
It makes it more, we are more vulnerable when we move that way. Folks should have like the access towards like leadership building, autonomous movements in the street. Like how can we like equip people to...
00:14:28
Speaker
be moving with like sound judgment in their mind, doing personal risk assessment, and also just like being organized enough to have an affinity group that you build relationship with, trust with, and go out with. It's a big part of, yeah, I think like maintaining a sustainable movement here.
Impact of Renee Good's Murder
00:14:47
Speaker
if you care to share, what was your experience on January 7th and the days after that? And what is it like to be in Minneapolis right now? How are people meeting and finding one another?
00:14:58
Speaker
And what are they doing when they come together? Yeah, the morning of January 7th, I was out commuting with a few other friends. And that morning had had had a pretty it was a busy morning.
00:15:10
Speaker
There was stuff popping off all over the place around town. i got scooped from my place and we drove a few blocks down and were quickly surrounded by agents shining flashlights in ah in our car, demanding to know why we were following them.
00:15:26
Speaker
rhetorical question that I felt was a bit offensive to me. It felt really productive of what what the violence that they were there to carry out. And we we found out that Renee Good had been shot while we were patrolling outside of a largely Hispanic Catholic school near my neighborhood. And it didn't feel right to to leave at that moment because we were like in the middle of school drop-off and there were a lot of vehicles around. Yeah, I feel like after that, it's it's a blur in my mind a little bit. I don't really remember what i what I did with the rest of my day. Just kind of felt like I went where I needed to go, hugged everyone that I know, felt like, and then prepared to go out for the vigil that was held.
00:16:20
Speaker
which inevitably did turn into a kind of march. People held that space, which is probably a mile from where I live. So it's pretty close to where I live and my partner lives down the street. So it's, it's my backyard.
00:16:35
Speaker
People held that intersection as a sort of blockaded autonomous zone for a day until the Minneapolis police came and tore it down at 430 in the morning.
00:16:47
Speaker
a bit of a disgrace in my opinion. And to Loam's earlier point about how the police are trying to distance themselves in this time. They're also not afraid to pick people up off the street for vandalism, to throw them in jail over the weekend.
00:17:02
Speaker
they're participating as well. Like there are so many like passive ways that they're participating in oppressing, you know, anti-ice autonomous action in the cities.
00:17:13
Speaker
They're surveilling us, right? Like these are things that they're doing all the time. And I think we still have to be really vigilant about that sort of a side
Experiences of Organizers and Community Response
00:17:20
Speaker
note there. But yeah, being in Minneapolis is is hard right now. it's it's It's our home and you can you can run into these bastards at any street corner at any given time.
00:17:32
Speaker
People are like packing go bags and medical supplies and, taking first aid trainings and medic trainings. it's it's um It's a constant movement. That's, I guess, all I have to describe about about what it's like being here right now. it's It's like moving from meeting mode to being in the streets mode to like doing work, like regular day-to-day work, because we're all still trying to live under capitalism. And so it feels like we're we're kind of in this moment of of not catching a break, but it's also...
00:18:03
Speaker
Really, like I mentioned earlier, filled with like little moments of joy as well of taking care of each other and strategizing together and giving each other feedback and finding like points of affinity.
00:18:14
Speaker
and those are all really like wonderful world building things. I think that we're all getting really good at cooperation and respectful disagreement and like also being okay with those like differences in approach.
00:18:26
Speaker
Like if we're going to stop eugenics from hitting America, full-fledged eugenics hitting America, like we need to have a different of tactics and to keep each other's like approach sacred and in a way.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, I will admit i also was not on the ground when folks started gathering right after Renee had been killed. I was on the clock and I had the very distressing experience of working at a nursing home with the local news live streaming the brutalization of our comrades pretty pretty visibly while I was yeah stuck on the clock for many hours, which was obviously troubling, but nothing comparable to what our folks on the ground were feeling and Yeah, I can speak more to the the days that have followed. The obvious like surge in numbers of officers that we had on the ground coincided right along when Rene was killed.
00:19:18
Speaker
And so a lot of the kind of like tactical pivots that we were taking when it went from 300 officers to were already kind of taking place. The biggest change that I would say and was there was a ah ah lot of effort being put towards staking out the federal building, which is Whipple Federal, which is where ICE is staging out it for the entire upper um upper Midwest. So there's an abduction that's happening in the Dakotas or Iowa or Wisconsin.
00:19:46
Speaker
It's all coming out of there, which is unfavorable geography and difficult to actually predict. glean a lot of effort from it. And to the point you raised earlier, it was the site of a lot of plate collection and data gathering that was perhaps more useful when there were 300 cars on the road and much less useful when there's 3000 cars on the road.
00:20:04
Speaker
And efforts pivoted towards patrolling our neighborhoods, which became incredibly easy to do. I think at least in the neighborhoods that Jelly and I live in you know, main throwaways, you're going to see an agent every five to 10 minutes.
00:20:18
Speaker
And it's it's increasingly easy to start to go where they're going. And i think there has been true, like you know oftentimes measurable and felt impacts from our presence you know following them on the streets. Obviously, oftentimes that shows out in just like their outward aggression. But I think for every moment that they are not going to the site of an abduction because they know they have you know a caravan of people following them is a moment that someone's not being abducted and that's money resources their time their cars their agents that are dealing with an aggrieved community rather than oppressing the people that they're they're trying to there is there is ah yeah there is a ah feeling of of war on our streets right now there's
00:21:02
Speaker
There is a ah deep dark cloud that is hanging over the city that is felt by everyone of any political persuasion. it doesn't feel comparable to the sensations I had in the uprising. I think it's it's unique and different and horrible and it's in its own way.
Critique of Political Responses
00:21:19
Speaker
And yeah there's ah not too much more to say than there's there's just, um yeah, there's ah there's a a deep sadness here that I know many others in other parts of the country are feeling, but it's pretty profound. I just wanted to add, i was, today I was marshalling St. Paul Public School students did a walkout and they marched to the state capitol. During that marshalling, like I've, I've done marshalling.
00:21:40
Speaker
I've done marshalling for protests of all different sizes. Drivers were really aggressive today. Like I, I just think that like, we're also preparing right now in Minneapolis for an influx of like right-wing MAGA fucktards coming for the weekend.
00:21:59
Speaker
They're having a big old rally, you know, like there are people on the streets who are like looking to escalate with their vehicles right now as well. These were like high school students walking out like that is common sense, like safety, slow your car down.
00:22:14
Speaker
And that was just like the the escalation that I saw from vehicles today was like probably something I haven't seen in ah in a while. Not never, you know, I don't want to over-exaggerate in that way, but the youth are turning out, they're doing things. i think that we just like, also, we are like needing to really remind ourselves of like how to maintain safe street culture, I suppose, and how to keep each other safe and and have eyes and PPE and things like that, like at the ready. Yeah, I think that's becoming increasingly important in the streets as well.
00:22:48
Speaker
um Thanks for that. have a couple... Questions that relate directly to some of the stuff that you all just spoke on. First, on January 7th, Mayor Jacob Fry went on national television and told ICE to, quote, get the fuck out of Minneapolis.
00:23:05
Speaker
In the days, i'm I'm laughing because I can see Jelly giving a thumbs down. In the days following Good's murder, we've we've seen the Democratic leadership in a lot of different cities around the country seemingly attempting to get ahead of the mass anger that's bubbling right now by trying to draw a distinction between local police forces and ICE. And so I'm wondering, how do you see people on the ground in Minneapolis reacting to this effort from politicians, you know, from your own mayor?
00:23:36
Speaker
How has goods murder impacted the way the public relates to police versus ICE agents in the city, if at all? And how are people negotiating that difference or like understanding that difference in my circles jacob fry can say a lot of things even if they sound right and people will still make fun of him and and rightfully so because where is jacob fry in the streets where is jacob fry confronting agents i don't see it i do see like black and brown council members in the streets on their whistles like
00:24:12
Speaker
you know, taking leadership roles. And there's a sense of lip service that a lot of Democratic politicians give for media and soundbites. And they, the community and people who are like actively resisting ICE can like smell that like from a mile away.
00:24:33
Speaker
And i think that if Jacob Prye wanted people to be take him up on his word, he would do something about it. And a separation ordinance is what the city of Minneapolis has.
00:24:45
Speaker
It's not good enough. There's a lot of enforcement that can be done as well from somebody in a mayoral position around, yeah, enforcement of like using city resources to carry out ICE operations and whatnot.
00:24:58
Speaker
I'm i sorry, I haven't seen the other Democratic leaders in cities who have like
Historical Context and Strategic Reflections
00:25:04
Speaker
said similar things, but um In terms of, yeah, Jacob Pry, I think people people can smell his is phony baloney.
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'm ah a bit like ah skeptical that anyone's broader thoughts or feelings on policing are being moved much in this moment. And I would also just add that the separation ordinance that both Minneapolis-St. Paul and many other, i think, quote-unquote sanctuary cities. um Hold is a bit of a farce. I think cities are towing this line saying they don't participate in any sort of immigration enforcement.
00:25:39
Speaker
But what they do do is send their riot cops out when citizens are there to protect their neighbors. We've seen that time and time again. I will say I'm not certain if i've I've seen MPD mobilize once personally since Renee was killed. I know that they've shown up more in other places, but I was personally witness to throngs of St. Paul police officers.
00:26:01
Speaker
being called at an early raid maybe two months ago in St. Paul, Minnesota, where yeah folks were out with batons and gas and doing ISIS work for them. And I know this has been mirrored in city after city with Democratic mayors who want to seem on the right side of things, claiming that they are not affecting the outcomes of any sort of immigration work.
00:26:22
Speaker
But obviously they see the results of these like catastrophic invasions and they're still sticking their goons on the people that are doing things about it. So I don't think there's, know, any veracity to the claim that they are like neutral or, ah you know, on the the the side of their immigrant constituents. They're the ones that are oftentimes calling on the people that are assisting in the oppression.
00:26:42
Speaker
I'll particularly call out Mara Cowley-Herr, who just took office in St. Paul two weeks ago, who put out a pretty ridiculous video condemning ICE's activity in St. Paul, saying that it's like, i'm trying to remember the exact quote, but it's something to the effect of, it's it's incumbent on all of us to fight misinformation about like construed collaboration between St. Paul police and ICE, saying that it is the the citizens' responsibility to point out that they're actually not working together even in cases where they are.
00:27:11
Speaker
I think that that was just a particularly aggritous example of that kind of rhetoric being tossed around. But yeah, there should be no illusion that these two groups are working hand in hand. Do feel like it's becoming more and more clear to people that police are assisting ICE?
00:27:28
Speaker
Or are people sort of staying in the same impression that they've had up till now? I mean, I know, obviously, you're not speaking for everyone, but just curious if public opinion is shifting right now or not really affected by this.
00:27:43
Speaker
I would certainly hope so. i will say i don't feel that I've seen a terrific number of events that would move someone who is not already moved by having lived through the uprising in the Twin Cities or having just been conscious for their adult lives.
00:27:57
Speaker
I think that would be an optimistic read of what's happening here. And yeah, once again, the the amount of times that I have seen MPD on the ground these last couple weeks is relatively few. That doesn't mean that it's not happening.
00:28:10
Speaker
And I've seen larger presence before Renee was killed at some of these larger raids that might make it more clear to people standing by that these folks were in cahoots. I think it's a little more cloaked in these last couple of weeks.
00:28:24
Speaker
Thanks. And actually, i think you mentioning the uprising is a really good segue into my next question, which is how does this moment feel similar or different from 2020 in the wake of George Floyd's murder?
00:28:36
Speaker
Are there specific ways that you see people trying to organize right now that are informed by the city's experience in 2020? I mean, of course, that's such a broad question. I'm sure there are, but I'm really curious about the specifics there, if you have any that you could share.
00:28:51
Speaker
And similarly, are there things that people are avoiding, repeating, or strengthening as well because of their experience in 2020? Yeah, I think this is a deeply traumatized city because of what folks went through and participated and saw during the uprising.
00:29:11
Speaker
And I also think it's a city that is deeply traumatized by having gone through all that. And then we still have the police. We have, you know, very few things to show for the outcry, the organizing, you know, at the base building work, and also the fury that that folks expressed in in so many ways 2020. And...
00:29:30
Speaker
and I think Minneapolis is in a really tricky position right now where people who are veterans of these movements recognize the need for, you know, broad like coalition building and and base building and long term strategic vision for the campaigns
Challenges and Solidarity in Resistance
00:29:49
Speaker
that we are working on and the the causes that we are fighting for, while also being faced with the very immediate need for ah harm reduction for our neighbors being taken off the streets.
00:29:58
Speaker
and there are only so many hours in the day and only so many people on the ground kind of meeting and synthesizing what the fuck are we supposed to doing right he's supposed to be doing right now and i obviously think there is you know strategic reasons that we are you know following ice in the ways that we are and running these rapid response networks in the way that we are but it's also more than anything else just like trying to keep our neighbors safe and not necessarily part of a long-term strategic vision.
00:30:29
Speaker
I know that those are conversations that are happening, but this is a city that just can't catch our breath right now. And i guess all the all that is to say, I believe that people feel burned by you know the failures to achieve the stated goals of the uprisings in 2020 and desperately desire the long-term strategic plan to get ICE out of our city.
00:30:50
Speaker
And that is, again, absolutely happening. But it's also clouded by the fact that we are just, you know, spending the majority of our hours out in the cold, driving around, trying to find Nazis.
00:31:02
Speaker
And there's less time to kind of plan out our arc of escalation. Yeah, thank you. And i think Jelly also had something to say about the previous question, and I'll repeat the question here.
00:31:15
Speaker
How does this moment feel similar or different from 2020? Are there specific ways that people are trying to organize now that are informed by the city's experience in 2020? Things people are avoiding, repeating, or strengthening?
00:31:28
Speaker
I think that we've learned a lot. From 2020, know, having the National Guard called by the governor and also in tandem with MPD. However, I think we're doing a lot of different sort of risk assessment around different types of law enforcement. You know, MPD has been, i think we, you know, talked about MPD's been really absent other than like defending property rights.
00:31:51
Speaker
And we've used block captain strategies and neighbors are used to using signal and things like that. You know, there's a sort of social culture of being aware of security and things like that. I would say that this, the magnitude is very different.
00:32:07
Speaker
You know, we're kind of on call at all hours right now. And back then it was like very predictable. You know, it's going to be worse at night. They're going to want us out of the streets. They've set a curfew. it was a bit more clear the expectations of what to expect in terms of state repression and state violence. But yeah, I think strengthening things, we were prepared for some sort of, you know, be in the streets mentality. I think we're just facing a new wave of colonial beast and the lawlessness of agents is really apparent right now.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for that. So Minneapolis is known to have a large Somali population, many who came to the US in the 90s to escape the civil war in Somalia at the time.
00:32:52
Speaker
We've seen that they have really been getting fucked with even more with the recent influx of ice in the city. Is there any history of support for that community community? Is that community doing anti-ice organizing themselves or anti-police organizing?
00:33:06
Speaker
Or is there any efforts to work together amongst different communities that's happening right now? I think prior to ICE's targeting of Somali Americans, you know, I think people, for the most part, lived pretty harmoniously, although separately, culturally, from the Somali population here in Minnesota.
00:33:26
Speaker
i think that historically there hasn't really been a need to strengthen our ties against immigration with that community because a lot of them are u citizens and have gone through the formal naturalization process to be recognized ah as American citizens and have those rights. and so Yeah, seeing seeing the targeting of Somali Americans and specifically the xenophobia around religion is really horrible to see.
00:33:50
Speaker
The Somali community is very well-knit. They're all very, very close-knit within the state population throughout Minnesota. So I think that there's strides being taken, you know, to show up as allies to what they're already doing in terms of organizing with each other and meeting each other's needs.
00:34:06
Speaker
You know, i i still I still see a lot of Somali Americans around town. They're not as scared as as other minority populations, I would say, because they they are U.S. citizens, but they're still targeted nonetheless, even if they're able to produce paperwork. So it is a definitely like a more delicate, I think, way to be relating to our immigrant neighbors here.
00:34:25
Speaker
There is like defense strategies, you know, this weekend, there's a right wing influencer who's ah reportedly doing like a march downtown in Minneapolis to Cedar Riverside, which is where the majority of the Somali population lives. And there plans to show up, you know, on our bikes ready to help defend these neighbors, even if we're not directly connected all the time. I think people are, the Somali community knows that that white allies are there to support them. So that that's a positive, at least.
00:34:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool to hear about. Yeah. Thank you. I will also just say the Somali community generally is so generous with teaching folks about their culture. They show up with samosas, you know, it's really wonderful to have them around. And yeah, I think that they're really willing to accept allyship, which is also and amazing comrade trait. Yeah, that's really cool.
00:35:18
Speaker
Lom, do you want to answer that one too? I think there's a lot of anti-police and anti-ICE work happening within the Somali community here, and ah they have been leading that charge for many, many years.
00:35:32
Speaker
This is also a population that has been, you know, demonized by the rest of the city and society since their arrival in so many ways. i I'm... in my mid-20s, and the kind of moral panic around young Somali men joining al-Shabaab and ISIS in the late aughts, early 2010s has many parallels to the, you know, kind of the villainization that we're seeing of the Somali community right now.
00:35:59
Speaker
And it had a lot of the same players involved. So there was, you know, there was all the same federal and police oppression that's happening to the Somali community today that was happening, you know, 15 years ago when it related to you know, concerns about folks going overseas.
00:36:13
Speaker
So I think that that that work has been being done for a long time. i will say, again, I'm newer in town and can't fully speak to the organizational relationships that are happening on the ground between small orgs and other just like abolitionist
Dealing with Burnout and Building Infrastructure
00:36:27
Speaker
groups.
00:36:27
Speaker
But I also don't think that those are two necessarily separate groups of people. And there's a lot of a lot of beautiful crossover. And ah yeah, a lot of a lot of solidarity work. Cool. Thanks for telling us about that. That's that's good to hear.
00:36:42
Speaker
What are some of the biggest challenges to anti-ice organizing on the ground right now? Like, for example, earlier you mentioned the cold. That's something many of us in other parts of the country are constantly impressed by seeing you all out there, no matter how cold it is.
00:36:56
Speaker
But, you know, other things too. Are there other inhibiting factors? Relatedly, what are the best ways to support y'all over there? and what would you like to see happening elsewhere?
00:37:07
Speaker
Additionally, do you feel like it makes sense for people who live nearby or further away to come support you? And are there things that would make that helpful or unhelpful? Yeah, no, I think that's a wonderful question. I appreciate it.
00:37:21
Speaker
and think one of the biggest problems that this movement on the ground has started to face and is only going to compound is just the tremendous and ah very quick levels of of burnout that are going to be achieved by being out in these like dangerous and somewhat life-threatening high-intensity situations every single day that start at 6 a.m. and you know now are even bleeding into the deep night.
00:37:47
Speaker
And this is, you know, we're not not that big of a set of cities and there's only so many folks in here that are going to plug in. And this is going to last for a long time.
00:37:58
Speaker
You know, I think by our you know best estimations, we've got, what, you know, three weeks left of the constant need to be in the streets. I don't doubt for a second that all of our comrades are going to show up in the same way.
00:38:11
Speaker
You know, in a month, two months from now, however long this goes as they are today. But that's going to come at, yeah, great, like emotional and physical cost. Obviously, that is harder in in the cold, as you say, I definitely think that all these agents from Tallahassee are struggling with it more than we are.
00:38:28
Speaker
They're falling a lot. But the yeah, all all that is to say, when I think about what the need is going to be from people outside the city in these next couple weeks, it's going to look like, yeah, calling in reinforcements. I absolutely think that will behoove the community.
00:38:45
Speaker
And I think that there's only going to be greater need for folks to come in and fill these high risk and yeah very like emotionally turbulent roles as folks that have been on the front lines for an increasing amount of time are going to need to rest their eyes in order to show up better the next day. This is, yeah, this is fucking hard and fucking stressful.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yeah, and also people are getting arrested a lot, and that that takes comrades out of the movement, it maybe just for a day, maybe for longer. And, you know, seemingly the state has no compunctions about just bringing in more agents as long as we continue to show our resistance.
00:39:20
Speaker
So, yeah, the ask from the outside is Yeah, show out with us where we'd be happy to help orient you as long as we can find out that you're not a fed. The other thing I would say is like, i would hope that everyone in other, you know, American cities are synthesizing and learning from our experiences and learning from our failures and preparing themselves for their own siege. i think that is to be expected.
00:39:46
Speaker
And i think that this would all, you know, really be for not if we're not able to help the next Minneapolis be better prepared to to meet the their own federal invasion. And I think this goes back to an earlier point is, i think, the fact that we are all on the ground all the time.
00:40:02
Speaker
can sometimes you know perhaps lead us to a bit of like a long-term game plan vacuum. And i think we have a lot of beautiful brains outside the city that can work with us, even if they're not able to be on the ground with us now, to figure out the best strategies to you know kick ice out for good.
00:40:19
Speaker
I know that everyone around the country is thinking and and doing that, but yeah, I just think it's it's going to take a a lot more than... Just the folks in the city to not just pass off these agents to the next unfortunate city. I think that's something that we're all wary of here. We all want ice out and we don't want them to go to Detroit next.
00:40:36
Speaker
So it's it's ah it's going to take ah it's going to take a village to to achieve that goal. Yeah, this is a great set of questions. I think some of the challenges that I see facing us now at this stage, you know, has been in Minnesota since December. So it's been about six weeks of an occupation. I think that a lot of people are well organized at this point, but they're still kind of getting to that point of understanding that these are like completely lawless agents.
00:41:03
Speaker
And getting to the realization that if we don't defend our our neighbors in our community, they might continue to be taken. And so the like militancy that's necessary to keep our neighbors safe is still growing. And I think, you know, Lohm was talking about this earlier, the peace policing that's going on, you know, the kind of prescriptive approach to organizing and how to inform. interact with agents. you know Everyone has their own comfortability and role within these movements, and I think that's totally fine.
00:41:31
Speaker
I also think that escalation is necessary at this point, and there are people who are willing to do that. Yeah, I think there's a ton of ways to support us. I think monetarily, you know, people need help getting food because they're not able to go to work.
00:41:46
Speaker
There's a ton of mutual aid options for that. And hopefully we can post some of those with this podcast episode. i would also say that visiting, if you're an organizer, is super helpful as well.
00:41:59
Speaker
They're flying in agents from all over the place. You know, we welcome visitors here. um And a lot of us are also reaching emotional tiredness, physical tiredness.
00:42:10
Speaker
We're tired and we need breaks. Yeah, you can tap out sometimes. Yeah. And so, like, welcome all the homies that want to fight fascism because we are the testing grounds right now. I really do believe that. And, you know, in terms of what other cities are yet to experience, I can't I can't predict that.
00:42:28
Speaker
But this is happening here now. And so people who have flexibility, who have time, we got couches and So. so Just like an invitation, you know a homie in Minneapolis, hit them up. I think other things that are helpful or unhelpful, you know, we're trying to, again, keep each other safe from chemical weapons.
00:42:46
Speaker
That kind of material support is super necessary and needed as well. So yeah, there's a lot of ways, monetary and unmonetary ways that you can support us right now Are there particular things that you maybe wish people had done before you were like in this peak moment right now that would have helped address it more effectively that you think people in other cities could start doing right now if they're not already doing them.
00:43:18
Speaker
That would be interesting to hear about. And I know we're speaking, you know, you've already mentioned a bunch of stuff that's helpful. And but if there's anything you want to add that, I'd love to hear. Yeah, I think that organizing like a block chat at the very least is something that you can do with neighbors that you already know and do knocking efforts before people are on a state of high alert.
00:43:40
Speaker
Because we're experiencing that now, like our immigrant neighbors who are locked up in their homes won't answer the door for us and we can't put them in a group chat to give them up updates. And thankfully, like my block, my amazing housemate started doing that over a month ago. And so we have an all Spanish speaking WhatsApp group, for example, where we're able to ask people about their meal needs and just like general reminders and caution without raising a panic as well. So I think that that kind of thing, like just getting to know your neighbors, getting to know the people around you is super important for being prepared.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think the number one thing that anyone in Minneapolis or any other city can do is organize your fucking neighbors. We are driving fast on these roads to get to places where we are hearing about reported abductions.
00:44:32
Speaker
And the instances in which folks are being taken are happening in, you know, just the know a split second. And oftentimes, if you're two blocks away, you're too late.
00:44:43
Speaker
If you have a group chat with your neighbors and you can turn out folks in your very immediate vicinity for vulnerable populations when ice is rolling through, that's ultimately what is going to, you know,
00:44:57
Speaker
really, really deter agents and get the goods. That is something that has been happening in Minneapolis increasingly. I think it feels like a little bit more like nebulous and perhaps a little bit less sexy than like rolling up on the streets. But when I think it comes to just like raw effectiveness, yeah, start a group chat with everyone on your block right now.
00:45:16
Speaker
You are going to be glad you did when, you know, your city is is going through what's what's happening here. And perhaps you can Do some cool local organizing on other issues while you're doing it. It certainly certainly can't hurt.
00:45:28
Speaker
But being able to have the infrastructure to mobilize hyper-locally as soon as you possibly can is the number one advice that I would give to anyone and something that I i wish we had more of going into the siege writing.
00:45:39
Speaker
Sweet. Thank you for that. Yeah. Definitely something that that people are working on where I live. And I feel you on the tension around it not necessarily being the sexiest thing to do but feeling kind of like a ah long-term effective strategy and something that prepares you to be able to do any number of of things together going forward. So yeah, thanks for that. Yeah, really smart.
00:46:05
Speaker
Is there anything else that you want to talk about or comment on before we wrap this interview? Just that I think being in resistance with people that you're not personally close to can feel really uncomfortable sometimes. But I keep reminding myself that we live in such an individualistic society that it breeds that kind of distrust in everyday people. And it's never too late to start building that community and to try to trust your neighbor and to share responsibility is a good practice.
00:46:38
Speaker
It is revolutionary and it is like new world building. And so there's a lot of opportunities to be building systems that serve us so much better than dominant systems do throughout the struggle.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate that. I think about that a lot, like how it's almost like working a muscle. You know, if you're not used to talking to people you don't know, or people that don't look like you or seem like you, or you don't have a lot in common with different ages, different backgrounds, all those different things, it it feels awkward and it feels weird, but the more you do it, the more you realize that people actually really, for the most part, seem to receive that well. And I think people are touched by that and then want to respond warmly back and it's not very hard to build relationships with people that you live nearby or that you come across in your daily life.
00:47:26
Speaker
So yeah, I really appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. And there's space for that throughout, I suppose, getting to know people that you didn't previously know. You know, I think that's like some of the things that I'm trying to find the beauty in the chaos. um and These kind of people let let us into their home super early on a Sunday morning to like have a cup of tea and we'd never met them before, you know?
00:47:44
Speaker
And now I know my neighbor on a random street you. you know, streets over or whatever it is. So yeah. And some of those people that you would never expect this from can so fiercely have your back when you need it. Sometimes I have experienced that living rurally and really being surprised by people at some points.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yeah. I was also thinking when you were talking about the way that our muscle in urban spaces is really like practiced. And in rural all spaces, I think that breeds that kind of afraidness because you separate a bunch. But I know that rural areas need to be prepared, too. So, yeah. yep I also think that in urban spaces, that muscle can get really weak, too.
00:48:24
Speaker
think it's really common for us to be isolated from each other. You can live next door to someone and not see them hardly ever. So I think it's a ah good muscle to practice using no matter where where you live.
00:48:37
Speaker
Yeah. Lom, you have anything else? I think your questions gave me the opportunities to say the things I wanted to. i appreciate you you giving us the opportunity. Well, thank you so much for taking time out of all the chaos right now and being here with us. We really appreciate it. And we're all sending you lots of love over there.
00:48:56
Speaker
So take care. Thank you for having me. Thanks for doing this. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time when things are so intense where you are right now. And yeah, sending lots of love and strength to comrades in Minneapolis.
00:49:10
Speaker
And thanks for sharing. Awesome. Thank you both so much. i hope you have a good night. Yeah. Thanks. You too.
00:49:22
Speaker
Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Beautiful Idea. News and analysis from the front lines of anarchists and autonomous struggles everywhere. Catch you next time.