Transcript
Alexis : Ooh, it's crisp outside and I had a nice fall drink over the weekend.
Brett: Crisp.
Plant People: You mean another fall drink.
Alexis : Crisp, yes.
Plant People: You've been drinking those for a while, Alexis.
Alexis : Another. Yeah, but if it feels like fall, it's like the real fall.
Plant People: I know.
Plant People: It hits a little different, yeah.
Alexis : Right. Yeah, yeah.
Plant People: So what's the flavor of the week now?
Alexis : It was it's still I'm still on my chai tea you know nice good spice i guess i shouldn't say at tea i still my chai concoction so
Plant People: Okay.
Plant People: Concoction.
Brett: Yeah. You know, the tea heads in the chat calling for your head.
Alexis : uh
Plant People: Yeah, they're like whoa
Alexis : Listen, I heard it when I said it. I reined it in, okay? I'm getting some culture, all right?
Brett: We also heard when you said it.
Alexis : I'm trying.
Plant People: You have a complexity of ingredients.
Brett: Gabe, are you... We're joined today by Gabe. He'll introduce himself in a minute. But Gabe, are you... Are you mourning the arrival of fall with the cold weather?
Gabe: Yeah, I was over the summer.
Brett: You were over the summer.
Gabe: many
Brett: Okay, good.
Gabe: many weeks ago.
Brett: I see.
Plant People: And summer, summer did not want to give up and it's supposed to get warm. Well, I shouldn't say that.
Brett: Alright?
Plant People: The cool weather is going to, it's warming right back up. So it's not giving up easily.
Alexis : It ebbs and flows as it always does this time of year.
Plant People: Yeah, yeah.
Alexis : I'm not quite ready for like a frost, I'll be honest, but... I also am glad it's not 100 freaking degrees anymore. Literally.
Plant People: Yeah. It's like we get to the fall time season and then it's the hottest period in Kentucky, which is not exactly the. the norm.
Alexis : mm -hmm
Plant People: But you never know. I don't know what the norm is of Kentucky weather anymore. We are a transition state, but. We're certainly in flux with the weather.
Brett: One of one of my favorite things about being cold is that
Alexis : mm -hmm
Brett: I can like move around outside and I just sort of come back to baseline. I don't.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: you know, poor sweat and people think that I may die.
Alexis : Hmm.
Plant People: You You return. Yes.
Brett: We went down to Cumberland Falls this week, this past weekend to see the moon bow.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Oh.
Brett: several more opportunities this fall every full moon but this one was very clear but before we we got down there a little earlier
Plant People: Very nice.
Brett: And we went up and down a bunch of staircases to. several of the different outlook lookouts.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: and I was in shorts and a t -shirt the rest of the night. I built up a thermal load within my
Alexis : Thermal mass.
Brett: Hot. Hot pavement. uh, like body. And yeah, I gave Annie my sweatshirt. She was A little chilly.
Plant People: And it was nice and warm.
Brett: It was crisp out and it was nice.
Alexis : Mhm.
Brett: It was pretty fun. A lot of people there.
Plant People: Yeah, not with the weather we've recently had.
Brett: It was lovely.
Plant People: So, yeah, sometimes that weather, it's just right. You know, the humidity is good. The temperature is good.
Brett: It was, I mean, if you can imagine standing next to a... body of water that is spraying mist into the air constantly it was a little humid
Plant People: Mhm.
Plant People: Oh.
Plant People: Oh yeah, yeah.
Brett: And so.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: But it was cool and humid, so, you know. all my fungal friends were like Okay. I see you.
Alexis : What up?
Plant People: The dew point was doing its thing.
Alexis : Hey.
Brett: Let's go.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: But I was sort of, yeah.
Brett: Just comfortable. It was nice.
Plant People: It's a good time.
Alexis : the powdery mildew is about to come with vengeance because it's not had its day with how hot it's been so be on the lookout friends for that powdery mildew it's coming for you
Plant People: Good time of year. Yeah.
Brett: Aha mode.
Plant People: Watch out, lilacs.
Brett: Dang.
Plant People: We're looking to choose, friends.
Plant People: Yes.
Alexis : Those zinnias that you thought were going to hang on until the end of October, buh -bye.
Plant People: And lots of... Oh, man. Yeah.
Alexis : No, thank you.
Plant People: Yeah. Full sun. The mildew doesn't care this time of year.
Alexis : Mm -mm.
Plant People: It's going to get you.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: It's going to come after you. That's right.
Brett: Mildew. Not to be confused with Mountain Dew.
Plant People: Mountain Dew.
Alexis : Oh. Oh, yeah.
Alexis : We will also get you, you know, sometimes faster than others.
Plant People: It will get you to.
Brett: Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew code powdery
Plant People: Both will raise your temperature in different ways. Yeah.
Alexis : Code powdery.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : Oh, Code Red.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : That sounds delightful actually right now.
Plant People: No, it's Baja Blast. What are you saying?
Alexis : I'm not a Baja Blast girlie.
Plant People: Baha blast.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : I...
Plant People: Come on now.
Brett: Alexis is a big vintage head, you know?
Plant People: Man, she is so retro that it hurts.
Brett: She's like, oh, let's have some Surge. Let's have some Mountain Dew Code Red.
Plant People: Yes, please. Some knee highs in the refrigerator.
Brett: Let's get a out and clip it to your belt loop.
Plant People: Yes, all things 90s.
Alexis : Listen, I would love to have a Tamagotchi again. I think it would make me... I don't know. I think I'd stop scrolling if I could have a Tamagotchi again. Maybe that's what it is.
Plant People: I don't know
Alexis : Maybe millennials will stop doom scrolling if they bring back the Tamagotchi.
Brett: It...
Plant People: If they had a pet to feed.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: The downfall of the Tamagotchi and the rise of the scroll.
Plant People: You know the song Radio Killed the TV Star or TV Killed?
Brett: millennials in a social media age.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Poor Gabe is like, what is this?
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: I thought this podcast was about.
Plant People: What is the reference points of these pebbles?
Alexis : Gabe's like I thought I was here to talk about like economics. and like be smart.
Brett: Mountain...
Plant People: It's basically the same thing as Tamagotchi as economics, right?
Alexis : great news you will sound like the smartest one today Gabe after all that
Brett: Mountain Dew was...
Plant People: Yes, absolutely.
Brett: Did you ever have any exposure to Mountain Dew Code Red except in historical documentaries, Gabe?
Plant People: Were you ever a gamer?
Gabe: It's the extent of it. I'm a... I'm a... Baja Blaster.
Plant People: Oh, thank you, Team Baja Blast.
Brett: Okay.
Gabe: Love and power of God.
Brett: Yeah. Okay. Well, I wasn't saying it was bad.
Brett: It's just.
Plant People: Hmm.
Brett: It's just a different era.
Plant People: Hmm.
Alexis : Something about a code red.
Plant People: My family gets angry. I mean, when I order Baja Blast and I say it in the proper voice, when I order it at maybe Taco Bell, I say, give me a Baja Blast. And they just, they're like, why do you do that?
Plant People: I'm like, why would you not do that?
Brett: Do you do it on purpose?
Alexis : So embarrassing.
Plant People: Yes, I do, but it's second nature now.
Brett: Can you say it again? Can you say the full thing?
Plant People: It's like a Baha blasting
Brett: Welcome to Taco Bell. Welcome to Taco Bell.
Plant People: Yes.
Brett: What can I get for you?
Plant People: Yes. Give me a number two and to drink.
Brett: Anything to drink?
Plant People: Give me a blast in their life. in my family. And Reed, who is 13 years old, is horrified in the back.
Alexis : So embarrassed we're just saying something because he's pretty he's pretty fun
Plant People: Backseat.
Brett: I really like that.
Plant People: Yeah, he is. Yeah, he's pretty outgoing.
Brett: Behold Blast!
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Yes. Team Baja. So.
Brett: I like that.
Plant People: Yeah, it's good stuff, man
Alexis : Well, you know.
Brett: Or we do have a...
Alexis : Bring back Code Red.
Plant People: Good stuff.
Brett: We do have a guest on the podcast Gabe, would you like to introduce yourself? Tell people what you're into, if there's any vintage soft drinks that you remember from your earlier years.
Alexis : Ski.
Brett: Suki.
Gabe: i don't think they're They're not vintage yet.
Brett: Okay.
Gabe: You'll have to get me on the podcast later on.
Alexis : Wow.
Brett: Okay.
Alexis : Ouch. Wow, okay. Is this how Rey has felt with all the new agents that have come in all these years?
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: I'm feeling joy in my heart right now that you guys are feeling not joy in your heart right now.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: So, you know, vintage.
Brett: Where he's like, we used to soak sassafras, barkin'. fresh spring water and...
Plant People: I have made Sassafras tea. It's good. Quite good. Thank you.
Brett: See? Yeah, I agree.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : Root beer.
Brett: I'm with you on this.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Brett: It's you and me against Alexis and Gabe, right?
Plant People: I like it.
Alexis : I don't know how I got on this side of it, but I appreciate being lumped in with the young, fresh, brilliant Gabe.
Brett: I mean, it means you're young.
Brett: With Baja blaster over here
Alexis : I appreciate that.
Brett: So anyway, sorry, Gabe, we asked you to introduce yourself and then steamrolled you.
Plant People: Co -opted.
Alexis : And then...
Gabe: Well, you know my favorite soft drinks. I work with Brett and Alexis with the Center for Crop Diversification. particularly with dairy.
Gabe: and dairy innovation in the state. I graduated from UK in 2025 and then I worked. on the horticulture research farm for a little bit and then I joined the team about Uh...
Gabe: About a year ago, I think maybe 11 months.
Brett: And you are. You are like a true blue economics person, is that right?
Gabe: I do like some economics. agriculture uh as well but i would say i'm more of an economist than an agriculturalist
Brett: When we were getting to know each other, we were... i was just asking you know do you like to read and he's like yeah i read some books and stuff and i was like fiction or non -fiction and he's like a little bit of both but i was like what kind of non -fiction he's like uh Economics.
Brett: Mostly.
Brett: Hehehehe
Plant People: Dedicated.
Gabe: You got to stay.
Plant People: I like it.
Brett: that's right
Plant People: dedication to the craft. I do like it. Yes.
Brett: Well, thank you for oh
Alexis : Listen, if there's a spreadsheet that needs to be made, Gabe's our man. So you need to figure out if something is. like worth the money? Gabe. Gabe can tell you.
Plant People: He reads The Economist and Forbes for fun, people.
Gabe: Wall Street Journal.
Plant People: Yeah, OG. There you go, retro. Now that's becoming retro. There you go.
Gabe: i don't think is that retro
Plant People: No, it's current, actually. Yeah.
Plant People: So it's both.
Alexis : Which means it's already old.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: Oh yeah, it's legacy.
Brett: I just read old issues of the Wall Street Journal to know what I should invest in.
Plant People: The word is legacy. Former. previous year's issues. I like it.
Brett: So, Gabe, thanks for joining us. I think. We don't have a, you know. crystal clear plan for one specifically want to talk about actually wanted to just get a sense of all the different projects or initiatives and things that you've worked on since you've joined us with the ccd Coming up on one year ago in October.
Brett: which is kind of hard to believe And so, yeah, I think. Maybe we start with the play in the hits, the CCD hits, talking a little bit about some of the price stuff that you've worked with.
Gabe: So I took over our farmers market price reporting this year from Brett. and his reign over it.
Alexis : Hehehehe Hmm.
Gabe: And this year we switched to... fully digital reporting. which is new. In the past we did all paper reporting. but now we send out a Qualtrics form.
Gabe: that our prize reporters then report on and then upload and then All of it is digitized and it just speeds up the. the turnaround on those reports.
Alexis : mm -hmm
Brett: Yeah.
Brett: Well, historically, those reports, the farmers market ones, they're downloaded on average about 15 ,000 times a year. across the state, but also beyond the state, because there's people in surrounding states that would like to have. some reports similar to that. And they use those just as reference points or people that might be coming to. other markets in Kentucky.
Brett: Yeah, I think it's been pretty interesting. We definitely had... a system that we use for a long time. That was very inefficient. Every week I was.
Brett: pecking away at the keyboard adding stuff in and gabe's is much more streamlined and i think it's gonna be cool to kind of see as we move forward with it but you'd also you know it's cool to have those reports for people to use on a week -to -week basis but you also...
Brett: we have been kind of doing some stuff using other data sources to maybe put those prices and other prices we collect into into context. I'd be curious to hear kind of what you've been doing with that.
Gabe: Yeah, so kind of on that line of knowing. when you should or should not scale up your operation. you know people are looking at our press reports to know maybe the week -to -week of what they should be selling at.
Gabe: or even month to month. But knowing when to make that leap. planting the extra acre or so of of whatever it is. We were. We were looking at other sources.
Gabe: how how would you go about deciding to start selling at a produce auction as opposed to the farmers market And then beyond that. selling to a larger district. distributor retail, etc.
Gabe: so I got that data from the Agricultural Marketing Service, which is provided by the USDA. It's a huge data set. It's national.
Gabe: And it has... every single specialty crop you could possibly imagine. So a lot of my work. in putting that together was filtering out.
Gabe: what we didn't need.
Alexis : But we don't grow here.
Gabe: Yeah, and Alexis was a big help with that as well.
Brett: she just sat she just sat in her throne like she said she it's weird because at team meetings she has to have a throne
Alexis : It's
Alexis : I did.
Plant People: That crop shall not be included.
Brett: and Gabe would present a crop, and we did this thing where you had to kind of like...
Plant People: Yes.
Gabe: No.
Alexis : No.
Gabe: You have it.
Brett: And she would just give it, not even say no, she would just do a thumbs down, like gladiator style.
Alexis : No. Yeah, the thumbs down.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: It was pretty fun.
Plant People: I'm getting like a real Alice in Wonderland, like the queen, like new. Yeah.
Brett: That's right.
Plant People: Absolutely not.
Brett: I've...
Alexis : Now what?
Brett: gave it you like avocados she's like
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Negative.
Plant People: Yeah. Negative. In some cases, that would be a tough vetting process. Were there any crops that you really had to kind of... It wasn't so clear cut when you guys were doing that. I'm just kind of curious because I know that national data set. It must. I can imagine that was a long list.
Plant People: when you're trying to decide, is there such a thing as something that's so niche that may be grown here, just not grown enough quantity when you guys were deciding all that?
Gabe: I think Alexis could probably speak more to that. the the borderline ones but
Alexis : There was some like weird squashes and stuff, weren't there Gabe?
Gabe: Another...
Plant People: Yeah.
Gabe: Yeah, the varieties.
Alexis : like weird
Plant People: That's what I scan.
Gabe: the varieties get really, really niche.
Plant People: Yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking.
Alexis : the varieties. Mm hmm.
Plant People: Yeah, yeah That's what I was kind of wondering.
Gabe: For the most part, we try to avoid really specific varieties.
Plant People: Mm -hmm
Alexis : mm -hmm
Gabe: just because it gets so granular that like. it kind of takes away from the message.
Alexis : Mm hmm.
Plant People: and in the Pretty hard to compare.
Alexis : like do we really need like 14 types of zucchini on this list or can we just kind of call it Aww.
Plant People: Mmm.
Alexis : in general zucchini, you know, based on a size.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : rather than or or pickles like you know slicing versus pickling you know cucumbers But it doesn't really need to be more than that, at least for our area of the state.
Gabe: Yeah.
Gabe: And in a lot of cases, those varieties are like pretty much the same price as well.
Alexis : mm -hmm
Gabe: So you don't really lose much anyway.
Plant People: Okay. Yeah.
Gabe: In some cases they were pretty different also.
Alexis : Mm hmm.
Brett: Yeah, and I think that those data sets... you know, are initially intended for more somebody like I'm looking for a specific crop. I want to compare with the exact crop that I'm growing.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
Alexis : Mm hmm.
Brett: And so that specificity is helpful. What we're trying to do is a little bit of a different use case. Because that's just how we roll. uh to try to make a little, not exactly generalizable, but. more broadly applicable tool and so you mentioned so what what were the You had worked on a poster that was presented at the Food Connections.
Brett: local food summit back in the spring, just as a kind of proof of concept. And what, so what were the, remind me what the four markets were. And did you have some of those data just for. reference point for us.
Gabe: Yeah, I have them pulled up here. So it was a comparison of our farmers market reports and produce auction reports, which we already have. the center.
Brett: And those are Kentucky.
Brett: Farmer's Market's Kentucky Produce Auctions.
Gabe: That's right. Yeah And then it was the introduction of the shipping point and terminal market data, which is provided by the AMS. So.
Gabe: For those who don't know, Shipping Point is... kind of the price that a grower would receive. Whereas terminal markets is that price after it's been shipped to wherever the buyer might be buying it.
Gabe: So terminal markets have those Shipping points kind of built in shipping process.
Brett: And they... And that. That sort of serves the shipping point and then the terminal market. Those sort of serve as two data points for... what we would think of as the largest scale. wholesale. marketing approaches you know that it's going to end up In Subways on their salad bar, it's going to end up in. products that are in the grocery store freezers and and fresh everywhere else and so And yet, so I think one of the...
Brett: One of the things we were trying to get at with that, or that I've been interested in getting at, that you've... been able to advances a little closer toward is just understanding like Okay, so...
Brett: I know if I sell at a farmer's market, I'm going to get more per tomato. And if I sell it at the...
Alexis : mm -hmm
Brett: the into a
Alexis : auction.
Brett: auction i'm going to get made less i'm going to get probably even less again if i sell these other So what did you find? Like, was it? was it create what was what were some of the were the differences huge or were they what was the was yeah i'm curious
Gabe: Yes, there are some huge differences, but it's entirely case by case so we looked at four different crops for this specific poster. and obviously it will be all crops when the final report is out.
Gabe: We looked at strawberries, cabbage, cucumbers and potatoes.
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: And I thought, honestly, the most interesting of these was the potatoes.
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: because we saw this huge price at the farmers markets. And then... I've got to find the price. Farmer's markets were seeing $4 .30. per pound of tomato.
Gabe: and then at our next
Brett: Potato, potato.
Gabe: Auteuilto.
Alexis : Potatoes.
Gabe: uh produce auctions drops down to just 40 cents or 47 cents actually so like
Plant People: Somehow that doesn't surprise me. That's interesting that you picked that out and saw that because I would almost put like potatoes in general at farmer's market is not a volume thing. And they're more of a specialty thing. And when they're sold at a market, they're usually, I mean. They're not the norm anymore. They used to be, but it's something that's kind of a wholesale crop and it's kind of a true commodity on a large scale. But you get to a farmer's market and they bring these. Larger prices, that's interesting.
Plant People: That's pretty interesting. I never thought about that, but not really surprising. There'd be such a huge price difference. That's crazy.
Gabe: Yeah, that's exactly what I was imagining before we put this all together. It was like... I don't know. I assumed that... you know, tomatoes would have.
Gabe: the most differentiation across these and that's just not what we found.
Alexis : Mhm.
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: The other ones, the other three crops that we looked at pretty much followed the same kind of trend of this like. curve in which farmers markets are the highest price and then uh it drops by a little bit and Then shipping point is our absolute lowest price. comes back up on the end for terminal markets when All right.
Gabe: Shipping. shipping costs are integrated as well.
Alexis : Hmm.
Brett: Yeah. And so what was like, what was this? the spread on uh on cabbage, for example.
Gabe: Yeah, Cabbage, we saw it. Our highest price at farmers markets at $1 .50. and our lowest price at 30 cents.
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: $1 .30 as opposed to... Uh, $4 .20. In the case of potatoes. So massive.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: I don't know if you've looked at it to this extent, but does that hold true of, and I've asked Brett this before and it gets a little cloudy, I know, but between urban and like more rural markets, do you guys have any? Do you break it down like that at all? Or is that a little tough?
Plant People: to...
Gabe: We have that. We have that data for farmers markets, but
Plant People: Yeah, for farmers markets is what I guess I was thinking, yes.
Gabe: Yeah, I don't have that off the top of my head, but typically rural prices are lower.
Plant People: Hmm. Yeah.
Gabe: just about it like I keep trying to make hand gestures.
Brett: You can.
Plant People: The w -
Brett: You can still do it.
Alexis : You're being videoed so you can make those
Plant People: You're this.
Brett: But you also need to narrate the hand gesture.
Gabe: Yes, yes.
Alexis : Yes, yeah.
Plant People: Oh, it makes it even more fun.
Brett: Gabe's putting up the Loserville L.
Brett: No, but...
Gabe: Yeah, we do see that. We just don't have...
Gabe: a great way of really making that point across the shipping point.
Plant People: Like a breaking point. Yeah.
Alexis : mm -hmm
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: I will say, What we saw during COVID.
Gabe: So.
Alexis : Are you?
Brett: And in the Most years subsequent to that was that there was a widening gap in the prices. between rural and urban markets. So in other words, rural markets were both of their prices were going up, but urban markets were going up at a faster rate.
Brett: and we have seen the the pace of that widening slow. over the last few years. there's still a pretty big gap. But. like 30, 40%.
Brett: difference between urban and rural markets.
Plant People: So then when it's like a swing, it's like closer to the. the farther point of the swing is magnified instead of being closer.
Brett: I think so. I mean, there's other... I think we had an episode about this probably around the first part of this year, but...
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: I think part of it could also be That the people who are selling at urban markets because they have so much more costs associated with either with getting there, with having a booth, with taking precautions during COVID, with all the other et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Alexis : Mm hmm.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: And that there may be. They're paying a little closer attention to some of those costs and tweaking their prices.
Plant People: Mhm.
Brett: consumers in those areas tend to be a little less price sensitive and so we're able to eat some of that shock but
Plant People: And that's sort of a follow -up question.
Plant People: And I don't know how, if you guys are like looking at this data real time or you wait to the end of the year to primarily do like an analysis. But like with input, rising input cost, I mean, is any of that showing yet or is it still too early?
Plant People: detail. with the market reports. Sometimes it takes a while for that to come out.
Gabe: Well, one of the benefits of doing it digitally is that we do have Bye. pretty much same day access to that kind of Uh... detail.
Gabe: This year, however, we didn't have as many markets reporting. And that might have been because of our change with the system. or other things. So it might be difficult to actually say.
Gabe: as they relate to 2025 or 2024.
Plant People: Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Sometimes hard to compare those, especially when you have a system switch over. Yeah.
Brett: Well that, so... That's a little teaser on that market price stuff. But you mentioned earlier you've been working with the dairy. stuff. And your position's funded through some dairy funding from the federal government in collaboration with... the university of tennessee so i'd love to hear kind of Some of the different stuff you've worked on, I know you put out a couple of publications, been able to attend some different. events. And you're doing some other new stuff with.
Brett: You're installing flock cameras. Is that right? No, no, sorry. It's I. track something. Anyway, I'd love to hear about the dairy stuff too.
Gabe: Yeah, we got a few projects going right now. The eye tracking study is going to be really cool. It's in partnership with Shuli Zhao at UK.
Gabe: And it's not specifically dairy, but we're going to get some dairy data out of it as well. The premise is that we... are going to be stationed at a local food co -op.
Gabe: And... at a table and we'll hand out gift cards for participants to put on these cameras that can tell where your eye is looking.
Gabe: at shelves. So. We'll go around with these people and... be able to ascertain what it is about certain products, placements, colors, etc. that is really drawing consumers.
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: I think it's gonna be really cool.
Alexis : So it's... kind of looking at you know, labeling, but also probably placement. uh you know in a store i mean i know there's a whole psychology that goes along with what you put up front and and things like that but you know thinking about the label or the packaging of something even.
Alexis : and how
Alexis : You're drawn to it.
Plant People: It's almost like landscape theory where there's art and science involved with like.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: you know color palettes and blocking and like you said holo and all of that yeah
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: I think it's primarily... you know, products and shelf placement, but
Plant People: Mmm.
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: I'm sure you could. Uh... extrapolate something about the store design as well out of
Plant People: Hmm.
Brett: Well, that's one of those funny, quirky things. So we're doing this. This past spring, we did this event called the Retail Readiness Workshop where... Shout out to our colleague, Savannah. and Tim Woods and Katie Bowman from KK Garden, Deanna Elmore. We'll have to get them on sometime.
Brett: But. One of the things that you could do is you could bring as a Kentucky producer or Kentucky business, you could bring a product, a value added product mostly, and have people from Meijer and from the co -op and from some other places.
Brett: evaluate your product. But then we tell people. Well, they're not going to taste it. they're just going to evaluate it from a retail perspective is exactly what you're talking about, Gabe, that like. They are evaluating whether this thing is.
Brett: pretty and, uh, attractive and eye -catching and different enough.
Alexis : mm -hmm
Brett: to merit the real estate on their shelves.
Alexis : mm -hmm
Brett: I'm really excited to see some of the results from that. And to be fair, I did put Gabe in an awkward spot because this hasn't really started yet. He's just getting involved with it. doing a good job of representing what it will be.
Alexis : He's like I read I read the description
Gabe: Pretending, yeah.
Brett: Right.
Gabe: We've had one meeting. Yeah.
Brett: That's right. But yeah, that's Dr.
Gabe: Bye.
Alexis : Could have fooled me.
Brett: Shirley Zhao in our ag economics department is doing that. It's going to be kind of cool. What were you going to say, Alexis? Sorry.
Alexis : Oh, I just I think the like the packaging of it, you know, there's. Of course, I always talk about the cut flower world just because it's one that I'm familiar with, but... It'd be fascinating to know.
Alexis : you know
Alexis : when especially like local flowers but even local flowers versus like imported is there like a packaging like if you if you wrap something in brown paper does it look local versus a clear plastic sleeve so it's like they could both be local flowers but is somebody gonna you know who's got who's maybe shopping at the farmer's market or you know a local grocery store or something are they automatically going to go towards the thing that like looks more rustic or does it matter like if it's the same bouquet in both it's just an interesting but you know that could be strawberries and a cardboard versus a plastic container or you know milk that's bottled in a glass bottle versus you know a plastic half gallon If pricing was the same, what do people go towards?
Brett: Mm hmm.
Alexis : That's fascinating.
Brett: Yeah, the...
Plant People: Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
Brett: The pulp versus clamshell. So clamshells, what do you think of like?
Alexis : Mhm.
Brett: buries the grocery store in.
Plant People: Mm. Mm hmm.
Brett: Hope is like the... Usually green. little container and you can compost it.
Plant People: Yeah, papery.
Alexis : Yeah, greenish blue.
Brett: You can.
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: Or you can compost it with my British.
Plant People: But.
Alexis : Compost.
Brett: You can compost it.
Plant People: Composed.
Brett: You can tear it up and put it in the bin. But... It's one of the things I ask people in my... in one of the marketing trainings is like, who likes this one who likes this one and everybody you know because they're all performing for each other everybody likes the pulp container because it's so earth friendly
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: And I can say. the shelf life in that pulp product.
Alexis : I don't wanna carry that home.
Brett: in that pulp container different i mean there's a reason why they use the clamshell it's not because they just love microplastics though it doesn't hurt
Alexis : Mm hmm.
Brett: It's more of a, and yeah, there's lots of, I think I agree with you.
Plant People: macroclimate.
Brett: I think that there's some really, there are potential to do some really interesting packaging based.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: studies. If... if that's something down the line so what about this dairy stuff gabe This is like milk. Am I right?
Gabe: That's right. Exactly right.
Plant People: Nailed it.
Gabe: Uh...
Brett: It is horde culture after all.
Plant People: What did you say your favorite drink was?
Plant People: I know.
Gabe: Yeah, we got a few different things going on in... milk specifically right now. We just got done with a consumer value study. And then we're also...
Gabe: I'm in the midst of writing a journal article about dairy vending, which is pretty novel. and actually pretty big in Europe and Asia right now. And it just hasn't caught on in America yet.
Alexis : What is it? What is that?
Gabe: Basically, just... In place of buying bottled milk, pre -bottled milk in a store it comes in large gallon containers.
Alexis : uh -huh
Gabe: or multi -gallon containers that you then
Alexis : Like refill at the spigot?
Gabe: Refill. Yeah, exactly.
Gabe: Yeah.
Alexis : Just like like a big like water bottle like that you might take to the store like a big
Plant People: It's like a milk growler, Alexis.
Gabe: Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: They do frown on you drinking directly from the tap like Romulus and Remus style.
Alexis : Yes, I like it.
Gabe: Yeah, you're not supposed to link.
Alexis : Oh. Well.
Plant People: Yeah.
Gabe: Go under it, yeah.
Plant People: They weigh you in and out, so, you know.
Alexis : Ugh.
Brett: That's right.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: That's right
Alexis : No wonder it hasn't caught on here.
Plant People: Oh man.
Brett: Yeah, it's interesting because I have seen I feel like more with some of the vending stuff. I know that... Food Chain was doing a vending machine for... like ready to eat meals.
Alexis : Mm hmm.
Brett: And I know that Tim had seen some different. dairy related vending stuff. pretty interesting i think the you know location would be i would imagine important I'd imagine it could get kind of expensive to have that kind of a small throughput.
Brett: Thing and all the shipping charges and stuff like that, but that's pretty cool
Plant People: Yeah, never heard of that. That's an interesting concept because of the packaging is so much of.
Alexis : Mm hmm. I see it a lot for like detergent and stuff like that seems to be catching on at like smaller places where you can come like refill your own detergent and you know maybe select your scent or something even and you just get like the base yeah the base that but I see it with that and like shampoos and stuff too like you can go to a store and refill all your own
Plant People: It's important.
Plant People: Yeah. Hm.
Plant People: It's interesting when you apply it to something like a commodity where the packaging may be a fairly large percentage of the total product cost.
Alexis : bottles. Yeah.
Plant People: in some cases, or maybe not. But yeah, perceived value and all that other stuff comes along with that. too, I guess.
Gabe: incidentally we were talking about milkmen this morning Uh, for a different reason.
Brett: Yeah.
Gabe: Uh...
Alexis : We were indeed.
Gabe: Bye.
Brett: Days gone by man
Gabe: it uh It's kind of interesting how like... All of America just... flipped pretty much overnight. where you know, I think 60s, 70s. most milk was delivered.
Gabe: See you, Milkman.
Plant People: Hmm.
Gabe: And now... It's not a thing. There's maybe one. I think you can get JD's country milk.
Alexis : Mmm.
Gabe: delivered. But even that I think is through a third party distributor. It's not. then Driving the truck. So just kind of. alternative ways to get milk to the consumers.
Gabe: What the...
Gabe: Dairy business innovation is all about really
Brett: And it's... It's also value added stuff too, right?
Gabe: It is value -added, yeah.
Alexis : Yeah, do they have vending machine for cheese?
Gabe: Uh... Cheese.
Gabe: I assume so.
Plant People: Let's see where you're going.
Plant People: Yeah. Hard cheeses, please.
Brett: Gabe is the guy who arbitrates whether or not you're allowed to have.
Alexis : Fine.
Plant People: He doesn't like the gleam in your eyes, Alexis.
Brett: Sure, yeah.
Alexis : Find me there.
Plant People: It's very aggressive.
Gabe: Heh heh.
Alexis : He's like, I'm not really sure if I should tell her about this.
Plant People: Hmm.
Gabe: Sounds like a stinky, very stinky machine.
Plant People: Okay.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Gah.
Gabe: Got to keep it.
Plant People: The cleaning of the machine has saved for the interns.
Brett: I'm ready.
Gabe: Yeah.
Plant People: They have to clean the cheese dispensary.
Brett: Maybe it would be packaged.
Gabe: They do.
Brett: It wouldn't be. A chunk just falls out of a chute.
Gabe: Yeah.
Plant People: There's like a knife that just chops down
Gabe: It just has a greater... Yeah.
Brett: Say when, let me know when.
Plant People: Yeah
Alexis : Just...
Plant People: Who are you? You bring your spaghetti plate and stick under there.
Alexis : You just spin the wheel and it just puts it into a bag for you.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: You know, this is very exciting.
Plant People: Oh, now we're talking.
Gabe: That is a value added.
Plant People: Yeah.
Gabe: Yeah.
Brett: brings all the customers to the yard.
Plant People: I could soft serve. I like where this is going. You just bring your own bucket or bowl or whatever.
Brett: Yeah. Is there an upper limit on how large the container can be?
Plant People: But...
Alexis : Is it?
Plant People: Eh.
Alexis : Isn't that like one of those?
Alexis : Uh, yogurt places.
Plant People: Yes.
Brett: Yeah, yeah.
Alexis : fro -yos it's a fro -yo
Plant People: Unfortunately, I... I didn't realize that that cost so much. First time, just coincidentally, I ever went to one of those and I thought, man, this is greatest thing ever.
Alexis : Oh, yeah, it'll get you.
Plant People: I can just fill this thing up. I want to pay like $32.
Alexis : $25.
Plant People: I was like, what the heck?
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: And so I was like raking M &Ms off.
Alexis : Oops!
Plant People: I'm like, whoa, that's.
Alexis : I don't want these anymore.
Brett: Hold on, Ray.
Plant People: $10 rent.
Brett: Hold on, Ray. We're going to get out our wholesale scale. The retail scale is erroring out.
Plant People: Yes. We don't, the capacity is not. Yeah. But for products, it's interesting. I mean, like the yogurt, right. That's actually a pretty good example of a novel way that you took something that was served a certain way.
Plant People: and then you kind of turn it up on its end, you do a different thing at retail or whatever, just a different distribution model. And that brought some of like the fro -yos and the, you know, all the frozen yogurt stuff.
Plant People: kind of back whenever that became mainstream, kind of brought that back. And that's probably a pretty good example. you all of something that was done differently. Kind of like you're talking about the dispensing the milk a little bit differently. I'd never heard of that with milk. That's, that's pretty novel. It's pretty interesting.
Brett: I remember back when UK Dining Services was...
Brett: in -house, they had milk machines where you could go and just like, it was, they had big bags of milk and you could just, it had a little tube, you push the thing and it would dispense as much, you know, it was pretty cool.
Alexis : Mm hmm. Yep.
Alexis : Mhm. Like go into your cereal bowl.
Plant People: Like into a cup or whatever.
Brett: Yeah, again, the not they do not.
Alexis : Mhm.
Brett: like to do it straight in your mouth yeah it usually into a bowl i used to do uh
Plant People: Okay, well...
Brett: I'd crumble up a sweet corn muffin they had there and put a little milk on it. A little dessert.
Plant People: Oh. Milk and cornbread. You gotta like that.
Brett: Yeah, it was.
Alexis : So fancy.
Brett: Yeah, it was very fancy.
Plant People: Super cool.
Brett: so what about the what about the value -added stuff game i know that you've done like you worked on a
Plant People: It is very fancy.
Brett: Kind of like a... A pilot. marketing project for because when Dairy month is one of the months, right?
Gabe: It is one of the months, one of the 12.
Brett: Okay.
Plant People: One of the commodity months.
Brett: 30 days hath the dairy month.
Alexis : When is Dairy Month, Gabe?
Gabe: Yeah.
Gabe: June. June.
Plant People: It'd be June.
Gabe: All right. Yeah, this past year we put together a campaign Both with... local dairies and local dairy distributors, on farm stores, farm markets.
Gabe: Two different campaigns, and we're kind of looking at different things in each. uh, for the, Producers we just kind of wanted to get their They're, uh... brand and what they were doing out there into the world. just as promotion.
Gabe: But for the retailers we wanted some data out of it as well. to see what consumers were looking at in local dairy products.
Gabe: And we keyed in on four terms there. see if I can spit them off on the top of my head. uh locality freshness. Craft.
Gabe: And one other. It's almost at my time. Maybe I'll think of it. but basically we came up with these advertisements that that featured one of these terms.
Gabe: and then boosted those advertisements. Facebook. and saw engagement with each of those posts to try and gauge how a consumer might value that statement. about the product
Brett: Yeah, and that's kind of the... the Southeast Dairy. business development. Innovation. Initiative. I think it's something like that.
Brett: that there's funding this. I mean, it's responding to the...
Gabe: You got it. I gotta think about it every time.
Brett: Yeah, S -B -D -I -I. It's responding to like the reality that it's. very very difficult to be a small dairy farmer in the modern. US. Kentucky.
Brett: And. i think you know some of these people are trying things a little bit differently trying to blend experience along with Maybe these... Uh... what we call them credence attributes or things that are used to differentiate a product.
Brett: It was kind of interesting to see. It's also weird. Maybe I'm just out of touch. Do you all feel like, and Gabe, you know. you can muse on maybe when you were. a toddler. But...
Brett: When we were younger, I feel like I saw so many more coordinated, especially national campaigns for commodities. in like the media, the got milk beef it's what's for dinner. pork the other white meat.
Brett: Like. I feel like I don't see those like in the world as much as I did when I was younger. Is that am I wrong about that?
Brett: Old people? on the pod
Brett: The milk mustache.
Alexis : I mean, Britney Spears
Plant People: I would say, yeah.
Alexis : It was in every Tiger Beat and...
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: And I don't know if it's advertising dollars have shrank or become airtimes become more expensive, but I was wondering the very same thing as we were having this conversation.
Brett: mm -hmm
Alexis : Cosmo.
Plant People: I was trying to think like the soybean board had this, like all the national boards had their own.
Brett: Right.
Plant People: very upfront marketing campaign. Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing.
Brett: even like a, like.
Brett: Cotton, the fabric of our lives.
Plant People: Yeah, yeah
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: alongside plastics make it possible.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah, not competing interests, but certainly.
Brett: Well...
Alexis : I wonder, I mean... Mill kind of...
Brett: That would be harder.
Alexis : fell out of favor there for a while like just on the in like the health. you know, scheme of things like for better or worse, I don't know, but I just remember it kind of going out of style and people weren't drinking, you know, whole milk anymore.
Brett: Right, right.
Alexis : It was like skim milk and 1 % if they drank it at all, or they went into like the almond and oat milk came in. So I don't know if it just like health wise. became something that they didn't.
Alexis : I don't know, advertise. I imagine that's going to come back around.
Plant People: Well, eggs were eggs were kind of the same way once upon a time.
Alexis : Yeah. High cholesterol and.
Plant People: And then eggs kind of and then now they were like, now they're back, baby, with a vengeance.
Alexis : Yeah. Yeah.
Plant People: You know, so I don't know if but some of this I wonder, Gabe, is is that. specifically for milk is that because of like national advertising dollars available for that group because the number of dairies to support national efforts I don't know that's going way beyond the scope I know But it's an interesting question for him.
Gabe: Well... It's probably twofold. Overall milk consumption has just overall dropped by a huge amount.
Plant People: Oh, has it?
Gabe: Since, like...
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: Hmm.
Gabe: Since the 80s, I think it's dropped by like 40%.
Plant People: Wow Yeah, it's crazy.
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: And then you have all these... trends and stuff going around. Like right now, the GLP -1 craze has high protein, low fat diets. So you see like
Alexis : mm -hmm
Gabe: uh milk always seems to be at the forefront of like all these trends whether consume more of it or less of it. Incidentally, yogurt and cottage cheese have exploded.
Gabe: this past year in consumption.
Alexis : If you see any recipe on any platform, it's either Greek yogurt or cottage cheese.
Gabe: No, no
Alexis : They're like, you want to make cookies?
Gabe: Yeah.
Plant People: I mean, for lunch I was having cottage cheese.
Alexis : Cottage cheese. laughs
Plant People: I I'm a big fan of cottage cheese. That's my number one milk based product is I have always loved.
Brett: Really?
Plant People: Oh yeah. I even.
Brett: What do you what do you okay?
Alexis : I love cottage cheese.
Brett: What do you eat with it?
Plant People: Lay's plain potato chips primary or spoon.
Brett: Okay.
Plant People: Or a spoon.
Gabe: Spoon.
Brett: Like you're dipping or you're sort of like bite and then bite?
Plant People: uh any p Anytime I have pizza at home, Brett, anytime I have pizza, it's I've got cottage cheese with pizza.
Brett: like you're doing parallel bytes.
Plant People: And I had a couple of Italian twins when I was at Berea College, my undergrad. They said, no, no, anything with, you know, tomato that's kind of with these ingredients. And I've been eating cottage cheese with spaghetti and, you know, of course, lasagna and then pizza.
Alexis : mm -hmm
Plant People: Any of that stuff is made better.
Alexis : Kind of offsets the acidity a little bit like
Plant People: It does. That's exactly what it does.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: But so, yeah, not surprising.
Brett: But... But on the Lay's potato chip, are you - Dipping it in...
Plant People: Just dipping it, yes.
Brett: you're dipping it like you like almost like a okay
Plant People: Yes.
Alexis : it's a
Plant People: And if you break it off, that's an excuse to get another chip out and then get the chip, rescue the chip that's stranded in the cottage cheese quagmire.
Brett: Yeah. Rescue Chip.
Plant People: Yeah, the rescue chip.
Alexis : Are you...
Plant People: So, yeah. Hmm.
Alexis : Are you a sweet or well, I know it sounds like Ray's a savory cottage cheese guy.
Brett: Clearly.
Alexis : Are you also like a sweet cottage cheese? Like you have peaches with it or?
Brett: Peaches?
Plant People: I like the full fat, but I do love some cottage cheese on a salad instead of salad dressing. I've always used that on salads, but peaches and cottage cheese. Yes. And I saw Jennifer eating blueberries and cottage cheese the other day.
Plant People: And I was like, I don't know.
Brett: Hmm.
Plant People: That's a step too far for me, but.
Alexis : I cannot do sweet cottage cheese. Can't do it.
Plant People: I can do peaches and cottage cheese, yeah.
Alexis : I love cottage cheese.
Brett: What?
Alexis : I don't I don't want sweet things. It's tomato. It's salty. It's it just
Brett: Hmm.
Alexis : That's the nature of it. Unless you blend it up and you're like mixing it with a bunch of stuff so like the consistency is not the same.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: But then you're sort of – you're making it not a cottage. You're making it more like – brick or like mortar cheese.
Alexis : Exactly.
Plant People: Yeah, you're making like a slurry cheese slurry doesn't have the same.
Alexis : So it doesn't really count. No, I don't do...
Brett: You're destroying the cottages.
Alexis : Oh sweet.
Plant People: Yeah, no, no
Alexis : No, I can't do it.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Huh.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : It's weird.
Alexis : It's weird to me.
Brett: Okay.
Plant People: So these niche products, maybe that's the way forward. Maybe that's it. And what else did you guys say was popular right now? Cottage cheese as a milk product?
Brett: Yogurt.
Plant People: Yogurt.
Alexis : Yogurt.
Plant People: Yeah, yeah, yogurt. Yeah.
Brett: I could see that.
Plant People: I hadn't realized that milk consumption had went down so much.
Alexis : Greek yogurt.
Plant People: I remember when like 1 % and 2%, it used to be just whole milk. And then to, you know, all the other. percents came on board But yeah, the overall like.
Alexis : The other percents were born.
Plant People: All the other percents that we should.
Brett: The other percents were born.
Plant People: I will ignore the other percents.
Plant People: I will ignore them and go for the whole milk just as I will eat my bacon with all the original fat. as it was intended, but... Yeah.
Gabe: And sodium.
Plant People: Yes. Yes. And sodium. Number one important in sodium.
Plant People: But I know products, they just have their trends. I think of milk. I think of eggs and a lot of other things that kind of come and go over time. And some of that may be based on social media.
Plant People: Some of it may be based on prevailing science, whatever. But I guess that's a good point about like retail on a national level, kind of retail overall. Things don't stay static.
Plant People: They kind of come and they go and. Sometimes it's just in vogue and out of vogue or health crazes or whatever.
Alexis : So, okay, milk consumption, you know. as you said, it's gone down, but if. Other products, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc. have gone up that use milk.
Alexis : like is the actual milk production or the need for that raw product change do we know like i'm i know i'm asking you and i'm asking gabe I mean, I think Gabe, the person who is so numbers driven, he will not give me a generalized answer.
Alexis : He'll be like, it depends. And I'll be like, damn it, you're right. But also.
Gabe: I actually don't know.
Plant People: Yeah.
Gabe: But the number of... farms. The reason that's... difficult is like the number of farms. has also decreased because of all so many consolidations.
Plant People: Hmm.
Plant People: Yeah.
Gabe: I'm sure the answer exists. I don't know it off the top of my head.
Plant People: Yeah. because then you bring cheese into that alexis and that that's the equation too so yeah
Alexis : Yeah, that's true.
Gabe: Yeah.
Brett: Yeah, it reminds me of chicken when it went all to white meat.
Alexis : Well, but we know.
Brett: It's like you can't produce them.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: All white meat chicken.
Alexis : Yeah. Right.
Gabe: Yeah. Well, beyond that it's it's classed out so you have your class one class two class three class four so
Alexis : Hmm.
Gabe: Each of those is going to be. used for different products So as they vary, it's going to be.
Alexis : Gotcha.
Gabe: complicated.
Gabe: I'll get back to you with an answer about that.
Alexis : That makes sense. I didn't think about the fact that like...
Alexis : they don't probably don't use the same quality of milk for
Plant People: Like different components or whatever
Alexis : fresh drinking versus, you know, cheese or something that's...
Plant People: Mmm.
Gabe: Yeah.
Alexis : gonna have be cultured and that things like that what about
Brett: Well, is there anything? Oh, sorry.
Plant People: Mmm.
Alexis : And just, I think this year, maybe it was last year, got out of the dairy industry. So I'm curious. what your thoughts and knowledges on like the Kentucky dairy industry.
Gabe: Yeah, it's difficult. Part of the reason that we got on this grant was to help those folks who were getting out or thinking about getting out. trying to save the farms.
Gabe: Because... It is difficult to... to sell milk at wholesale levels. you're at the whims of the national market. And you're competing against these.
Gabe: orders of magnitude larger farms. in up north. So it's really difficult.
Alexis : Yeah.
Gabe: and then not to mention if you get dropped off of contracts they're not obligated to to buy so then you're stuck with
Plant People: I know, yeah.
Gabe: Uh, however many thousand gallons of milk. at any given time. And that's what's driven a lot of people to.
Alexis : Yeah.
Gabe: to value added products. Oh.
Alexis : So you can do other things with them. Interesting.
Brett: Well we're We're coming to the end of our time, but I wanted to, is there anything else you wanted to share about kind of the stuff that you've been working on just related to work, dairy, any of that stuff?
Gabe: Yeah, exactly
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: control more of the market
Brett: Because I have one more question.
Gabe: Shoot your question.
Brett: Okay. Tell us a little bit about your Home. hydroponic. growing system. This is Hort Culture.
Gabe: Yes.
Brett: You have...
Alexis : We're gonna bring it all back.
Brett: A very nerdy little hort. operation thing set up, which is cool. So tell us about that.
Gabe: Yes, it is in its infancy, but it is going. Like all my projects. It. takes a long time to get off the ground but this one actually is off the ground i have currently 50 lettuce plants growing in rock wool.
Gabe: in my back porch It's made with PVC pipe and LECA inside the PVC pipe.
Gabe: And it's just... dripping down. which seems to be working so far. So it's kind of an experiment of mine.
Alexis : Huh.
Gabe: We'll see how it turns out or if I get anything that's edible.
Alexis : So are the... Are the lettuce plants are in the PVC or are they in like more like a float bed system?
Gabe: So they're in the Rockwool.
Alexis : Yeah.
Gabe: And then... If they outgrow that... It's still an experiment. So I'm not entirely sure.
Gabe: Yeah.
Alexis : Are they just in their own pots?
Gabe: That's an... It's in the Weka. So it's kind of like...
Gabe: redundant i guess i wasn't really sure but It seems to be working right now.
Alexis : Hehehe.
Brett: So the LECA, which is like those like clay ball things that you can see in Ikea sometimes.
Gabe: If anything broke, don't fix it.
Gabe: Yes, yeah.
Plant People: mm -hmm
Brett: And that's like sort of like this gravel thing. And then the rock wall is is holding the root mass.
Plant People: like a substrate
Brett: into that
Plant People: Anchorage.
Alexis : And all that is in like PVC.
Gabe: Yeah, it was
Plant People: Hmm.
Gabe: All that, it's in PVC vertically.
Plant People: Oh.
Alexis : Gotcha.
Gabe: And then I got like a hose that I... poked holes in. to provide hydration. And that just runs continuously. And then I pump it back up. to the top
Brett: How are you fertilizing it all?
Gabe: Uh... Not much right now.
Brett: Okay.
Gabe: I just got like. really dilute. Stuff in it right now
Plant People: Since you're a numbers person, you're gonna love...
Brett: Nice.
Plant People: parts per million when you start going down a dark rabbit hole of measuring finitely, you know.
Alexis : Ugh.
Brett: Can you count to a million, Gabe?
Plant People: the
Gabe: I think it would take a while, but I think I could get there, yeah.
Brett: I believe in you.
Gabe: Yep.
Gabe: Put me on the clock.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: Fun project. Those projects like that, yeah.
Brett: And then... yeah so go ahead and start and we'll just run this till you get to a million
Plant People: Here we go
Brett: every like you have to.
Gabe: One. I'll do the outro.
Brett: Yeah.
Gabe: to...
Brett: Awesome. Well, I appreciate you sharing this. I know it was a... There's a lot of different things that you're doing and a lot of cool things I think people will be interested to hear about. And that was the... That was the goal here. We appreciate you joining us. Alexis, do you want to take us out?
Alexis : Yeah, so make sure you tell Gabe how awesome he was as you leave this episode five stars. You say more Gabe, please, in his deep math voice that he's got going on there. It's very different from Jessica's.
Alexis : who usually would be our fourth on here. But anyways, leave us five stars. It really helps people find us and let us know what you liked about this episode. If you have questions, you can shoot us a message on Instagram at Hort Culture Podcast.
Alexis : or over email, horticulturepodcasts at gmail .com. All of that is in the show notes if you've got questions. And if you want to know more about what Gabe does, you can find his email on our Center for Crop Diversification website, which is ccd .uky .edu. I can tell you how many times I type that in every day. But anyways, we thank you guys for being with us today, and we hope you will join us next time. Have a good one.
