Transcript
shari: Okay.
Plant People: Hello, friends. It's horticulture time and I am hosting solo today, but that is perfectly all right because our guest today, you've probably heard me talk about before because basically if I ever say anything, if you've ever heard me say anything smart, it's because this this woman taught it to me ah and um she has been my mentor for many years, whether she likes it or not.
shari: oh
Plant People: I always tell people I learned a lot about horticulture in the books, but everything practical I learned from her. And so I'm very excited that she's here today. So we have Sherry Dutton.
shari: well
Plant People: So Sherry, do you want to introduce yourself?
shari: hi i' Glad to be here. i am I'm currently an extension associate in in horticulture and I work with beginning farmers. pre -commercial, just dreaming.
shari: pre -commercial
Plant People: Hehehe.
shari: commercial. commercial less than 10 years. That's kind of my gig. And it's a specialty crop. So it could be.
Plant People: Mm -hmm
shari: Weird stuff, you know, you could You can want to grow dye plants like like I'm doing right now. so So, yeah, the sky's the limit on specialty crops. That's why they're special.
Plant People: Hehehehe.
shari: and that's the That's the group I work with and yeah, I'm happy to be here. Talk about playing.
Plant People: Yes. Yeah, so as you all ah can tell. we work well like i said i've known sherry for a long time because i graduated from the horticulture department and and learned all that but i'm excited she's in the extension team now and of course brett and i work with the center for us crop diversification, which is.
Plant People: All specialty crops. And so we get to work with Sherry. a fair bit and she's doing if you ever wanted to know anything about dye plants or if you're super crafty and want somebody so very talented at all things fiber related this is the one you talk to so ah but we're not
shari: Many hobbies.
Plant People: Yeah, right. I know we will have you back to talk about dye plants because I know that's exciting. And you and I have done a little bit of work together in the past, um you know, just playing with dye. And I've got some skeins that I have hidden away for a a special time where I've done some dyeing. And it's it's a fun thing and a good option for, you know, cut flower farmers, ah you know, potentially. so um there's There's lots to go on with that. But today we're talking about my second favorite topic, which is propagation specifically. And we've been telling you guys, listeners, for many weeks now that we were we've been covering different types of propagation. And I wanted really specifically to wait for the expert that Sherry is to come in and talk more about sort of this idea of like woody propagation. Because we talked about division. We've talked about like... doing soft um you know softwood cuttings and herbaceous cuttings and things like that um but it's
Plant People: A little bit of a different world and timing is really important, right? When you're we're talking about more of like woodier species.
shari: Yeah. Yeah. um we're going to concentrate on. semi hardwood or green wood and hardwood.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: cuttings.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: and this is the perfect time to to do those cuttings with some some plant like junipers and cephalotaxis or or you know you regular taxis
Plant People: mm -hmm
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: For cut flower growers, Taxus Bacata Rependens is an excellent one.
Plant People: that yeah
shari: ah yeah it's a it's a wonderful uh you that is not shaped like a gumball. or upside down ice cream cone.
shari: um it's It's very flowing and very graceful. and would be would be a fantastic one to to learn how to get cuttings off of
Plant People: So.
shari: so
Plant People: um Okay, for one first question is because... People don't always listen to these in the order that they're released or they come across the podcast later on down the road. When you say this is the perfect time to do it, what time of year is is a good time to do these types of cuttings?
shari: So we're starting to get cooler and most of these species that I'll you know mention.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: through this podcast, you're going to want to cool down.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: You're going to want, you know, winter, even late winter, you can do.
Plant People: Okay. Okay.
shari: You can do a heel cutting where you're you're... leaving you're getting some old wood with your your green wood or a a mallet cutting and again that's that's like it sounds like a crow crochet or crochet.
shari: I'm on my fiber kick, a croqueting mallet.
Plant People: yeah Uh huh.
shari: If you can picture that. So it'll be. uh it'll have some old wood as well um and so those are the two ah two ones that I really like because there's more surface area to attract the hormone indole.
Plant People: ah
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: Indole butyric acid, IBA, is going to be your friend. And so with these two, these two. types of cuttings that just absorbs or takes up more.
shari: of the IBA.
Plant People: is it
shari: You can do a normal cutting or just a straight cutting.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: um But I would. advise or recommend doing a 45 degree slant so that you have some surface area added surface area
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: on that cutting so you just do
Plant People: I've always liked the... the heel cutting when I can do it because one you don't usually need some tools if you do it right and for those of you who for For people who maybe don't know what a heel cutting is, can you sort of I know it's hard on a podcast to talk about visual stuff, and we'll give you some recommendations on some books that you can look up and you know some publications and that kind of stuff. So if you're really interested in this, you can actually have some good stuff. but um
Plant People: Heel cutting. Can you get like a little description of what you do with the heel cutting? Like what that means?
shari: Yeah, and I've got I've got some pieces, parts of plants.
Plant People: Yes if you're watching on YouTube this is perfect.
shari: sh sure But all it's easier for me just. to describe it if I do actually do it.
Plant People: Uh huh.
shari: So
Plant People: Do it. Yes.
shari: Because i you you might leave something out. so I'm looking at boxwood, just a ah type of boxwood.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: And as I look at it, the stem I've got, oh. I don't know, about a 12 inch piece of...
Plant People: it
shari: of boxwood here. and As I'm looking at it I'm seeing kind of gray or tan bark.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: That's the oldest growth.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: um That would not be my pick to to start my cutting. ah My pick would be... ah here where the green ah starts to meet.
shari: ah the um The Bark. right?
Plant People: Mhm. mm -hmm
shari: And so if I'm doing either a cutting or what I call a slip.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: I just get my my thumb under this lateral branch.
Plant People: is it
shari: and rip it.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: Just ripped it right off. And that gives me.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: an angled uh try to hold it up here to put it on my darker shirt so So that that raw edge has got...
Plant People: Mm hmm. a
shari: I've captured the old wood with the new wood when I do that.
Plant People: ah
shari: Now I can do the same thing. I got snips here too. I could do the same thing with my snips.
Plant People: ah
shari: and actually come into the old wood. and snip it.
Plant People: So you're taking like a chunk of the bark.
shari: Now. Mm hmm.
Plant People: of the the main stem old wood
shari: a chunk of the bark and trying to get that there. So so that's what that looks like.
Plant People: Mm -hmm Okay, yeah.
shari: now
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: That's a little bit more precise.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: Often when I'm in somebody's yard and I get really excited about something I see I don't have a pair of snips with me
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: So I rudely rip off a little lateral. bit. I can't help it. It's fast. No one no one sees me, I'm pretty sure.
Plant People: It's not obvious what you're doing.
shari: It's not obvious. They'll never be able to trace what has happened. um
Plant People: It's just a branch broken one.
shari: hum And probably that ring camera can't even figure it out either. Um.
Plant People: Not that we're condoning it.
shari: but Amen.
Plant People: Ask permission first, folks.
shari: kidding No, we're not.
Plant People: We're just we're just saying hypothetically speaking.
shari: Often I ask people, you know, I'll ask people often, very often. but um that you know that's a ah good way of of coming in you know when you when you get excited about something especially around old homesteads um you know you'll have plantings that from varieties that are no longer on the market.
shari: and you know, knock on the door and just you know ask.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: but But when you do take cuttings of any kind, whether it's a a normal cutting, a mallet or... a heel cutting. you need. You need to have it protected somehow from drying out.
shari: That wound.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: really should not dry out in any way.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: and so ah you know, while you're talking to the neighbor. Say, oh, by the way, do you have a moist paper towel I could have?
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: um Because it really needs to be wrapped a little bit.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: and then you immediately get when you get home. um You know, you're going to stick that. And this is this is just. you know offhand. Well, I've done this.
Plant People: Yeah, no, that's perfect
shari: yeah um this is this is some Some of the things I have had growing, I've actually... Gone to old homesteads, knocked on the door and done exactly. that.
shari: Hello. I'm not. I'm not.
Plant People: Some of the plants in my yard have come from um a heel cutting or two, that's for sure.
shari: Yeah, it's just, you know, and and people usually are so happy to share. But that's a heel cutting. And then a mallet is, ah is just, I don't do that very often at all.
shari: Just because you really do need snips for that. Let's see if I can.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: figure this out how to tell you how to do that. So same thing I'm going to come in on a lateral and I'm going to cut above it and I'm going to cut below it
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: Um... Okay. a little bit more to make it neater so we can see it.
shari: And. Taking these lower leaves off. I do that automatically you don't want um you don't want any plant bits in your media.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: And so that's.
Plant People: Right.
shari: basically a mallet where you've got your lateral, and you've got a little bit of old wood on either side of it.
Plant People: Mhm. Mm hmm. So you're, for those of you who are, um you know, just listening, trying to imagine, I think mallet is a really perfect description, the but also you could think of it like. um You're just taking the um what was I had an idea that I've just I was thinking of like a Christmas tree and, you know. like you almost if you were sticking it down into a log like that general shape you've got
Plant People: the christmas tree with the foliage that's the part that's going to grow but you're putting it down into a log shape and that would be where your roots are going to come out of and i know that's probably a really bad but i think visually it makes sense it does not make sense botanically but visually i know hopefully it makes sense and you're sticking that down in the ground and like i said if you're interested in doing cuttings we'll make sure to get you those resources so you can actually look this up and be like alexis what are you talking about um that's totally fine um but You know that's where um woody cuttings can differ a little bit from some of the other, you know, we've talked about taking cuttings from your houseplants and taking cuttings, you know, from um some of your
Plant People: um herbaceous you know or more green shrubs that you have outside uh that it's easier to take with that fresh, that first year growth versus something like we're talking about things that are a little bit woodier. So what are some, you gave some examples of, um you know, some shrubs, but What else? people might really know are the types of plants people would take these types of cuttings from. I mean, I know you can do it with a lot of stuff, but what's the most typical?
shari: Um.
Plant People: Boxwood.
shari: Yeah, a boxwood. um And there, you know, there's a lot of varieties out there of boxwood. And so, you know. um You see one that really catches your interest, this is this is an easy way to do it.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: Um. The size of the cutting matters too.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: this is This is about, you know... four inches, four four to five inches in length.
Plant People: Hmm. Mm -hmm.
shari: So you don't want to go too small on a woody plant, like some of the tropicals or the herbaceous stuff you guys may have talked about in the past.
Plant People: Okay.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: you can get by with a smaller cutting but with woody's that cutting needs to be larger anywhere from four to six inches and we're less
Plant People: Okay.
shari: We're less concerned about the number of nodes and we're more concerned about the length of it. um You know, much over six inches, that's probably to make.
Plant People: Excessive.
shari: That's excessive. um That's hard to... That's hard for that cutting to... to make roots fast enough.
Plant People: to support.
shari: to support all that transpiration.
Plant People: Mm -hmm
shari: um But. Different types. Yeah, your use. um like i said uh taxes uh use um cephalotaxis that's a harrington plum you where we're now because we're we've We're almost a zone seven, I guess.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: Are we a zone seven? It's crazy.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. I think we're a hard zone seven now.
shari: um Oh, it's crazy. So Harrington plum use are just. beautiful um we used to be a little bit too cold for them so now
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: you know now we can um Love on them a bit um They're expensive. I mean, as nursery stock, they're expensive. So if you know if you get... this is this is another technique like if you if you get one plant and you really really love it and you're like i wish i had about 10 more of those you can and You can have 10 more of those.
Plant People: Mhm.
Plant People: Yeah. Take some time, but you can.
shari: It takes some time.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: Yes, ewes grow fairly slowly. Cephalotaxis goes fairly slowly. um your shore juniper shore juniper is a great ground cover juniper that easily starts from a heel ah cutting.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: easily and in the winter.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: You can do that in the winter and we'll talk about some conditions that are best for this rooting to occur.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: um camasipirous that's your false cypress those gold mops green mops
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: um So.
Plant People: That's where mine came from, where his heel cuttings.
shari: and yeah I mean, it's just, you know, that. that uh That material is so easy to root from. from winter stock.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: Um, I was thinking you know kind of on the cuff the cuts end of things but Leland Cypress were
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: Neyland Cypress is really, really fast growing and you get one, you can have 25 or 30 of them and and it would be, it would be pretty quick. I mean in and I don't know, five years or so, you could you could be cutting on that.
Plant People: Huh.
Plant People: Hmm.
shari: It's not a good landscape plant. It's very weak. um but for for commercial use. you know You could easily do this. um um Japanese holly. It's another one.
shari: do this with. and of course you know our boxwood cherry laurel
Plant People: Oh, I love Cherry Laurel.
shari: Curtis Larceresis is a good one. It's a little more difficult. I definitely have to have bottom heat, but we'll we'll get into that here in a minute.
Plant People: this this is
shari: Euonymus now, okay. I have i have ah basically a hate relationship with... Ioannis Fortuniani.
Plant People: As many of us do.
shari: Yes. Yeah. and And this euonymus is... um Manhattan euonymous. And so it. it is less likely to flower and fruit.
shari: um
Plant People: It's well behaved.
shari: better behaved.
Plant People: Better behaved.
shari: Very good to hear. But it is ah it's an evergreen. uh for most of our most winners it's an evergreen for us and a great cut because it has evergreen foliage.
Plant People: It's nice too if you don't have a hard winner or if it's in a protected place where it's less likely to you know, have Harsh conditions on it for early spring foliage. It can be really great when we are lacking because it doesn't look I think early spring foliage a lot of the time again ah It's ah it's a Alexis here, right? So everybody knows I'm talking to cut flower stuff, but. um
Plant People: early spring foliage that tends to be available is you know more on the um pines and juniper side. And so like visually, it doesn't fit very well with your ranunculus and your anemones. And, you know, it just tends more towards Christmas rather than sort of those fresh spring vibes or that you want to miss.
Plant People: Is if it's again, if it's protected in a good spot where it's not going to get a bunch of. you know just kind of winter desiccation on it, on those leaves, those leaves can feel bright and happy and they blend well with the spring bloom.
Plant People: So just for those of you listening who, I know there's a few flower farmers who listened to us on some of their routes. um Hey. But ah that's that's a good one.
Plant People: And that's not like you can plant it and not be like, oh, I'm going to invade the neighborhood with it. Right. Like it's um I've got I've got those are the ones I have.
shari: No.
Plant People: Right. We took cuttings of and I have a few of them and I have them along the fence and they get mowed around and, you know, they don't.
shari: Bye -bye.
Plant People: I've not seen mine fruit yet. And you're... you're cutting on them if you are cutting on them a lot they're less likely to kind of fruit so anyways can Would recommend.
shari: more um Yeah, in fact, and we did this this very sick. technique. with with yours
Plant People: it
shari: um through use so your arborvitae like uh through your placata you know or green giant um
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: Um...
Plant People: If you're one of those people in the in Kentucky who can grow arborvitae, aka you're more towards the east.
shari: Yeah. ah here's a couple Here's one you may not have heard of. oh Osmentis.
Plant People: Give me the plants.
shari: Osmanthus americanus. Have you heard of that?
Plant People: Oh. No, I don't think so. What's the common name?
shari: Devil would.
Plant People: Devil, oh, and and it's got a spooky and spooky name.
shari: It's kind of spooky today.
Plant People: Love it.
shari: timely it's so timely so um this This one, I had it. um And I actually lost it. uh in in the collection ah to, I think it was just to...
shari: football coals where they had their their football games and they poured their hot coals right next to the base of it.
Plant People: uh -huh Uh -huh.
shari: And I think that's how I lost it. but
Plant People: Um... Oh yeah.
shari: Because we I was on campus. so So explain where I am on campus, very close to the football stadium. And so we would get, you know, lots of happy.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: happy people tailgating and some of the plants would actually be lost from from hot coals being, you know, kind of dumped.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: on onto the base and this was one of them. But it's it's an a really unusual plant and it has a nice form and I think it might have some potential as a cut.
shari: So I'll leave that up to you guys.
Plant People: it's so it's got is it um you said it was osmanthus what was the species
shari: I'm there. Americanus.
Plant People: americanus yeah okay so i'm looking it reminds me the leaves remind me of um cherry laurel where they're kind of that glossy long um long look and it is yeah it looks like it's got nate it's a native in this more southern states um
shari: Yes. the
shari: More southern, yeah. Amen.
Plant People: Yeah, more Southern going.
shari: But.
Plant People: looks like up into even Virginia a little bit. But like you said, we're kind of changing.
shari: or changing.
Plant People: um zone, so...
shari: I think it might have some potential.
Plant People: Hmm.
shari: So.
Plant People: Noted.
shari: Same, you know, same kind of technique. um you might You might want to do ah do a mixture of cuts, you know.
Plant People: Mm.
shari: on types on some of these unknowns. um You might want to do a heel and then a traditional cut. um you know just to see what roots
Plant People: Do you find that, you know, even when you're maximize, you know, trying to maximize the amount of um ah space area that will have hormone on it. You know, you're making the cut or you're doing the heel cutting or you're doing a mallet, uh, and have some more space.
Plant People: I keep wanting to say square footage.
shari: me Yes ma 'am.
Plant People: um Which, you know, not exactly wrong, but on those, but do you still find even with.
shari: and
Plant People: with the that technique of trying to maximize ah There are certain types that... of cuttings that do better like I think you mentioned earlier, maybe it was a juniper that does really well as a heel cutting, but maybe not.
shari: Mm -hmm.
Plant People: some of the others. That's just like a trial and error basis.
shari: i I do a lot of heel cuttings because I have more luck. with that.
Plant People: Because I just like to rip stuff off.
shari: What's that turning?
Plant People: That's my reason.
shari: I'm pretty glad to do it. And. You you know. And I'm impatient. And so usually.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: No, usually i just I just want more and I want it now.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: And so I just go i go with the the technique that gives me the more so surface area and the best chance.
Plant People: Uh huh.
shari: And.
Plant People: Uh -huh.
shari: through the years it's been it's been a heel cutting and it's easy
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: You know.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. This must be why I like heel cuttings because Sherry likes heel cuttings and she taught me all these things.
shari: You're not.
shari: and you're not ripping all the way down the stem it you know it really does it really does stop
Plant People: Sure.
shari: ah very shortly after you you start getting into that. to that bark you know old wood
Plant People: Yeah, it's what, maybe like... A quarter inch? I'm horrible at like.
shari: Maybe.
Plant People: Yeah, maybe.
shari: Maybe.
Plant People: maybe a quarter inch at the most um where and that's like the key too is you know you don't want too much bark coming off because you're going to damage the plant and so I kind of put my
shari: Yeah. Maybe.
Plant People: Um, so I have like one finger on top of the you know lateral branch. I'm going to. steel i'm gonna rip away and then my thumb sort of underneath one underneath it so it
shari: Yeah. yes And that's how I held this.
Plant People: doesn't
shari: That's exactly how I held it.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
shari: so
Plant People: So it doesn't come, you know, you're kind of just. Plot. um plucking it back real quick
shari: Yeah, you're You're bracing that. that tear. um with your son
Plant People: Yes. Bracing the tear. Yes.
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: With you, Sam.
shari: So it. it It doesn't. It doesn't. in it And you're. you know, that's that's going to seal over pretty quickly.
Plant People: mm -hmm Yeah, plants are used to losing those small, I mean, the the size of lateral branches you're taking off these plants.
shari: two.
Plant People: Remember, we're looking ideally for nothing more than six inches. So those types of branches are lost very regularly on plants. It can heal quickly.
shari: you are. So this, I just went out front. of the house and Yes. And I have...
Plant People: She's pruning everybody's shrubs.
shari: I prune in my my shrubs. But this is a juniper. And. Chinese juniper and so I'm gonna do the same thing. I'm gonna put my my finger here at the base and I'm gonna put my thumb on top and I'm just gonna rip and that one does rip a little bit more.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: than I anticipated, but that's still going to heal. now
Plant People: isn
shari: What do I do next? is i'll take these snips and i'm gonna let me see if i can put this on my shirt there
Plant People: Yeah, I can see it.
shari: No. Okay, so I'm going to... Reduce that That heel part
Plant People: Okay.
shari: Just a little bit. I'm gonna clean that up. And then... um you see
Plant People: So like there is such a thing as too much surface area is what you're saying.
shari: I'm curious.
shari: Yeah, i I just cleaned it up a little bit because. I would anticipate um That length, that extra length, which is, there we go, which is about.
shari: another um Wait one second.
Plant People: Half inch. Yeah.
shari: It might. That might start to. to you know, die back.
Plant People: Right. Mm -hmm.
shari: So... I'm also cleaning off the stem. about the the length that I would anticipate it being stuck into media.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: And I do that just right ah just right away.
Plant People: Yeah, habit.
shari: just
Plant People: Yeah, same.
shari: habit It's a habit. Once you get muscle memory, you just do it. You don't even think about it. Um. And you know, that's ready to stick.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: ah But if I had to if i had to go... um you know i had to go a distance say say you know ah I'm a mile or two away from where I could you know stick this plant into a propagation area.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: I would wrap that into moist towels.
Plant People: Okay.
shari: If it's hot, of course, most of these cuttings would be taken in the cool part of the year, but it is over 70 today. so
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: um
Plant People: as
shari: you know i would Put it in a cooler with an ice pack.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: you know, just to...
Plant People: Well, and I think that's the the one of the differences when you start to think about like the system of taking. like a he like a woody cutting versus like a herbaceous cutting is you know a lot of the times for most of your herbaceous cuttings or houseplants or whatever you can you're taking like a long piece and sometimes you can divide that piece you know, multiple times as long, you know, you just have one, a couple nodes.
shari: just
Plant People: So if you got 10 nodes on ah on a branch, you can divide that up. and Every. Cut. is is the same right versus when you're taking a heel cutting you only have the one end right like it's there's only a heel cutting once um from per branch and so you have to protect that um that site which is going to contain and you're Well, you're forcing, but it's going going to contain the right. cells in order in hormones in order to create roots. Correct.
shari: who
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: Yeah, and i wouldn't I wouldn't bring this back and and and shorten it because... I need it. you know for junipers especially that you know they're small leaves they're needle leaves they're an all -shaped leaf and a scale leaf on these that's not a lot of surface area for photosynthesis
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Mmm.
shari: you're if you're cutting and so that's why i've made you know about a five six inch cutting here
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: so that I can maximize. you know, the the food, right? Because we got to have the food to produce the roots.
Plant People: Right.
shari: And. that's another difference between herbaceous you can get away with it you can you can do two node cuttings and and all day long especially on ivy one node cutting on an ivy long leaf you know
Plant People: ah You like look at it the wrong way and you're like.
shari: Leaf bud, yeah.
Plant People: You're going to root.
shari: um but But on Woody's... it's it's not it's It's more of a more of a game of of getting getting enough. surface area there. to to conduct photosynthesis and create the energy to make the roots.
shari: there's and There's a couple other tricks to this. Should we share those little more tricks?
Plant People: ay Let's share them.
shari: Okay, so...
Plant People: I need to remember which that what they are.
shari: Um... So... So we talked about keeping those cuttings moist and cool, maybe with a cooler and a paper towel. But your stock, a lot of people say, well, I've tried to take headings and that doesn't work. Well.
shari: your stock that you take it from um is also another factor for success or failure. And if it's a very, very old plant, say you know say it's you know it's just...
Plant People: okay
shari: And it's not in very good shape. It's not been, you know, cared for. It's in drought stress or, you know, just physiologically it's very old.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: um That lack of juvenility. It will. directly impact your success rate.
Plant People: Hm. Mhm.
shari: So a couple things, you know. Know what juvenility looks like, is it? is it Vigorous.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: um is is is a color. you know, healthy looking? Is it is it not dr drought stress, not flagging in any way? Kind of know what good looks like.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: um and If it is great, chances are you're going to have good success. If it's not... You really need to take...
shari: More than you think. you need.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: the because because your percentage of success will will go down.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: So you need to, you say, oh, well. you know, 10 cuttings is enough. Well, if it's very, very, very old, 10 may not be enough to get one or two.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: that actually root
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: So. um So that's that's a that is a trick. that that
Plant People: For.
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah, that's a really good one. Like the the overall health and. Yeah. And so when you say, you know, juvenility, is it normally like is there a rule of thumb of like this is a one year old growth or i it's probably pretty plant specific.
Plant People: But, you know, is there something that I know color is a big thing. So we talk on the boxwood, you know, you can see that like some of that younger growth is more green versus the older bark is going to be kind of this gray and spotting those differences, even if you're you know not sure what it should be.
shari: move
Plant People: But once you spot those differences, it's obvious. Are there other besides color maybe that people would? recognize juvenility. when they're taking a cutting.
shari: um Yes. um So... an actively growing plant, a a fairly young plant in age. will have a um more of a growth spurt. So when you look for that green wood, you know, is it it an inch long? Is it two inches long? Is it three inches long?
Plant People: o
shari: really that That juvenile vigor will give you a longer... green wood. and and And I, you know, I look.
Plant People: Okay.
shari: I look for that. But if you if you don't have that, again, you've got to work with what you've got.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Sure.
shari: And if you've got something that's physiologically mature, very much so. um you'll have to take old wood.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: Because that. Tiny. That tiny growth spurt every year is probably. Mmm. you know Not. you know, that four to six inches that that is ideal.
Plant People: Mm hmm. mm -hmm
shari: It's probably more in the neighborhood of one, maybe two.
Plant People: Mm.
shari: So you've you've got to get some old wood in there. Yeah, i might I might think, well, I could do a mallet cut on that, right?
Plant People: Right.
shari: Um, so So that's an advantage in that. So I always say, you know, I do heel cuttings, but but I'm really looking for really long green wood too. um
Plant People: Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.
shari: So, um and, you know, in some of these, you know, some of. some of these older plants, you know, are just ah really difficult. And that's just... You know, that's just part of it.
Plant People: Right.
shari: In the trade, and you know, when when when you have... Plants that you're you're propagating off of regularly, you keep them in a juvenile state.
Plant People: Right because they're constantly flushing out new growth right like because you're taking it
shari: So.
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: um And that's, yeah, it's the same in...
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: with cut flowers like we're taking a lot of shrub you know if you've got shrubs we're taking a lot of that which is going to keep it producing those long
shari: Yay.
Plant People: juvenile stems that are usually long and straight and what we want for that kind of thing so
shari: Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Plant People: Um,
shari: So... um Let's see, what else did I have on here? Hormones. So the hormone that we use is indole -3 -butyric acid.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: it's The acronym is IBA. I pretty much use that. exclusively. You can find it in a talc form, T -A -L -C, talcum, like talcum powder.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: or in a solution like wood solution. And that. solvent. is usually AIDS. in um In like that that.
shari: chemical that IBA dispersing itself over that wound right so that solvent's not just there just to be a solvent.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: It actually does aid. If you use a talcum, if you have a talcum powder, it's very important to keep that wound. moist so that that talcum powder will stick.
Plant People: and
shari: um If you... it And. another Another trick to the trade is... you like hormex uh comes in a big box if you get a commercial box of it comes a big box you don't open the box and start dipping straight out of that box you take
Plant People: isn
Plant People: Right.
shari: You take a a bit of it out, maybe in ah and maybe in a small jar. You're going to label it what it is. um it it is uh and it It has been known, I think, in the literature to have a carcinogenic you know.
Plant People: mm -hmm Wear gloves.
shari: So. gloves It wouldn't hurt to put a mask on, you know, because it is a powder.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: Um. And you' you're just going to take a small bit of it and put it it put it into a very small jar and then use that. and then get back into your supply.
shari: you never
Plant People: oh
shari: you never just use out of your supply.
Plant People: So is the um IBA that you're talking about going to be different than... like the hormone most people would be using for their houseplants or, you know, some of their more herbaceous cuttings?
Plant People: Is it typically... typically something um separate like you want to look for right
shari: Yeah. it it is It is because the concentration of IVA. is you're going to want a lot higher concentration.
Plant People: and
shari: So we're going to do, we're going to recommend a book to you that's going to
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: That's going to help you make those decisions. How many parts per million do I need for this plant?
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: And that's really the question. Normally we work with a thousand. to eight thousand sometimes ten thousand if we've got something really difficult.
Plant People: Okay.
shari: parts per million. ah And that's much higher than you would use for herbaceous stuff.
Plant People: Mm -hmm
shari: In fact, if you tried to use this concentration on, say, I don't know. The geranium adding.
Plant People: Pothos Adrenium, yeah.
shari: Yeah, it would rot it. So...
Plant People: Yeah, okay.
shari: which You know, more is not better, right?
Plant People: Yeah, that is very true in all of the horticulture world, like more, more mix in your herbicide, more, you know, whatever.
shari: So it would run. Peace.
shari: More water.
Plant People: Yeah, is not.
shari: Okay.
Plant People: It's it's a chemical concentration for a reason. So more fertilizer is not always good.
shari: Yeah. Yes. so
Plant People: Yeah, like there's...
shari: but label Label this because a label label your your concentration, label what it is.
Plant People: the Mhm.
shari: keep it out of the reach of of any anyone and everyone you don't want to have it because it It is strong stuff.
Plant People: suspicious is
shari: Um, So. um Usually for these plants, you're dealing with a range of concentrations that have worked in the literature. Um, they don't just say, oh, if you do it.
shari: at you know a thousand parts per million and you're good it'll give a range one thousand to three thousand
Plant People: Okay.
shari: um So if you're... you know, if if you just want a few plants because you like it and you want more of it. you might. You might go, you know, hit the middle or something like that or or hit the high range range.
Plant People: mm -hmm Mm hmm.
shari: But that's, you know, that's your your decision. actually what you have on hand, you know, what you have on hand.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: Is that within the range? Okay, good. You know, that's kind of how I play it.
Plant People: Hehehehe. Or like you have your list of everything that you might do, and if one's you know one to three and one's three to five, then you need at least three. like you know to
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: To get to get by. Yeah.
shari: Yeah. um more secrets. Let's see. I'm just telling them all.
Plant People: We love secrets.
shari: So you guys are going to be.
Plant People: Yeah, secrets.
shari: just making plant more make well they're never
Plant People: There's just gonna be plants everywhere.
shari: never There are never enough plants in my in my book.
Plant People: No, true facts.
shari: So media. So media is usually you want to shoot for. 25 to 40 % airspace in your media and you can achieve that.
Plant People: Okay.
shari: by adding perlite. um and and sphagnum you can get a sphagnum perlite mix you can mix it yourself
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: um If you use sand, which is not a bad idea but use a builder sand not a river sand because you don't want things to rot. And you don't want any of the, oh, oh my seat's in there to help you out, rotting things.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: um and But if you use sand regardless... you should it should be new. It should not be you know
Plant People: Reuse sand.
shari: reused from a project or whatever. It needs it needs to be you know fresh and it wouldn't hurt to rinse it. um and then rinsing basically is you put your sand in a bucket you put the hose down in the bottom and you let any organic material then come up.
shari: you know, from.
Plant People: float to the top.
shari: from Yeah, from a folk from the top. um And if you have a way to steam it, that would be even better. but Usually we don't.
Plant People: The average Joe, maybe not.
shari: Um... So, Pete. per light, 25 to 40 % airspace, something like. Scotch broom. Scotch broom is Cytisus scoparius.
Plant People: okay
shari: requires a lot of airspace in the media. it will Rot. very quickly if it doesn't have them.
Plant People: sister
shari: closer to that 40 percent so this book that we're going to recommend.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: will will guide you. on what is really, really picky and what is not. to help you decide. Where? in that.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: range you need to be. You don't want to do fertilizer for most things. We don't want fertilizer on our cuttings. um It's been.
Plant People: when um for Going back to the media, so.
shari: Yes. Yeah.
Plant People: you're saying 20 to 40 compare that to so say i have a bag of baila pro mix because that's what i usually use for you know all my other cuttings and my seeds and stuff like that Can I just add perlite to that to make it fluffier?
Plant People: Or are you think are you saying that like...
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: what What would that look like?
shari: That's great. That's a great question. So ProMix can come with nutrients. And without.
Plant People: Right. Yeah. No. We definitely don't want nutrient for sure.
shari: No. You don't want the nutrients. um And SimproMix comes with a mycorrhizal inoculum that... That doesn't seem to hurt anything if you've got that.
Plant People: then
Plant People: Okay.
shari: But... You can add more pearlite. A lot of times we'll do... Like a 30 -70, we'll do 30%. pro mix and 70 percent perlite It just depends.
Plant People: Wow. Yeah, that's a lot.
shari: Again, it depends on the cutting.
Plant People: mm -hmm Mhm.
shari: and and And as you mix this up and you wet it and you look at it and you feel the fluffiness or not of it, you're like, no.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: maybe Maybe I need a little bit more, you know, mix a little bit more.
Plant People: Mm hmm. yeah we definitely don't want it um like clumped together like even even pro mix you know we say this with soil a lot but even with pro mix when you're making a mix for cuttings you don't want to be able to kind of like grab a scoop of it squeeze it and it stay a shape you want it to fall apart that's what you're looking for with a cutting for sure is like something that falls apart so that's like a
shari: mm -hmm for a little time. Yeah.
Plant People: um easier way to tell and you do get like i know it's crazy and it's easy for us to say as like plant people who have been doing this a while that like you just you feel it and you just know and you will get to that point no not from the beginning and so if you you know that's why we read the books or we call the experts uh in but also that's a good uh i think visual and something that kind of i do when i feel it i'm like does this does it squeeze and then fall apart
Plant People: when i let it go and that that's always helpful but um It's it's a lot more perlite than I think anyone realizes. Like your mix is mostly perlite and not. the the the pro makes pete part of it is just kind of like there for color it feels like
shari: Yeah.
shari: structure Yeah, structure is there to hold the plant up.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: or Yeah. Seriously.
Plant People: Yeah, when you start watering, you just it's just like mostly white when you you're taking woody cuttings, yeah.
shari: and that's And that's great. No, that's that's what you that's kind of what you're going for. um containers i would advise doing this you know not necessarily in ah in a flat, but but having containers with cells.
Plant People: of
shari: um And I'll tell you why here in a second. ah Bottom heat. uh bottom heat is really a good thing and and usually It enhances, it makes things come along a little bit faster.
shari: between 70 and 75 degrees.
Plant People: Okay.
shari: some things Some things do better around 80.
Plant People: Okay.
shari: you'll see you'll see in this book.
Plant People: That's enough. In the book, yeah.
shari: some things you know even warmer and then an intermittent mist system or a way to have extremely high humidity. um however you choose to achieve that. You want to have...
shari: a film of moisture on the leaf.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: Um, Not necessarily drippy drippy, but you want a film of moisture almost.
Plant People: You want them to be kind of shiny because they look wet.
shari: Yep.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: You do, yeah. Yeah. um So why containers? Why stress containers? That comes in with this hardening off. and This is another reason why I see people lose their cuttings. They get them to root and then they fail.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: So I'm really big on. getting things rooted in a container being able to lift it out of the container looking at the roots hopefully you won't just have clubby large roots you will start to have feeder roots and finer the finer root system that's developing
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: You can see that readily, you know, when you lift it out of a container. But also, if you have it in a container, you can kind of hill that in.
Plant People: Hmm.
shari: for the first winner.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: And. That. uh that is that hardening off for some things like um spice bush you could do spice bush cuttings but you'll lose them if you don't do this you'll lose most of them if you try to transplant them out same year
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: as a rooted cutting.
Plant People: oh Okay.
shari: So sometimes... they' They just need longer. And and you'll see that in the entrance of this book, in the beginning comments, this hardening off.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: And so hardening off starts gradually, starts with moving it from a very humid to a less humid to a less humid. Um, and then Your light intensity goes from you know less intense to more intense.
shari: So it's not a it's not take it out of the mist bed and put it in full sun. i would i would take I would take things out of the mist bed. and put them under a bench
Plant People: Uh huh.
shari: and then gradually move it from the middle under the bench to the... Edge. of the under the bench and then on top and then gradually on top of the bench.
Plant People: Right.
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: So.
Plant People: Yeah, I think that's definitely been my like personal experiences, you know wanting to you know they they have a nice strong healthy root you know they've they've done the thing and you think okay falls the plant time of year to put in a lot of woodies like that's what we recommend when you plant um but they're yeah, they're not, they're still, they're still babies, you know? And so that, that's always been the the hardest part. Do you recommend, so say you're going to
Plant People: overwinter them. um you know Whether you're healing them in or maybe you're putting them in a garage or someplace where they'll be out of the the worst of the elements.
Plant People: Do you recommend sort of potting those up, like going from one of those cells into maybe a slightly bigger pot? Or is it okay to keep them in sort of that smaller rooting cell? um you know through the winter and then plant maybe in the spring
shari: Yeah, I'm That's a great question. I've done it both ways.
Plant People: Mm -hmm depends It depends, right? Like everything in horticulture, we always say, it depends.
shari: It depends. Don't we just love that? Don't we just love that um Yeah. I mean, if I've got a really good root system. um You know, I i would. I would choose to to up hot.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: Probably no more than... than ah half gallon gallon line or something like that depending on you know, what the plug looked like.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: You're going to want to root in a you know, large plug size.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: likely anyway, so.
Plant People: Yeah. you're not doing like a tiny like you would for a seed you're doing something larger
shari: No. Now you're going to do, you're going to do. more like a
Plant People: 36 at the minimum, you think?
shari: Yeah, yeah, yeah
Plant People: I really like the deep ones too for like a woody one when you get the nice deep.
shari: The deep ones.
Plant People: um cells. A lot of the time I'll be like, if I buy some plugs in, if I ever have those deep cell trays, they come in. I'm like, I'm keeping this. This is gold. You know?
shari: Well, because commercially, that's... that that's
Plant People: Yes.
shari: A good root system is that deep cell.
Plant People: Okay.
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: okay
shari: Yeah, shallow, shallow, you're really. you know it's I mean, it it can work if that's all you've got, but commercially they do deep cells.
Plant People: mm -hmm
Plant People: mm -hmm Yeah, so if it's something you think you might want to do, a lot of you know investing in some some taller cells that you can use for tons of stuff. but um is is not a bad idea for some really healthy plants.
Plant People: Or like I said, ah you know, just buy in, ah maybe you're buying in one one plant you don't have yet, sick cuttings up and that's the tray.
shari: move
Plant People: You rinse that tray and disinfect it and then you reuse it for three years like me and um it's literally falling apart.
shari: Yeah.
shari: Yeah, it's fair. Yeah, absolutely.
Plant People: Yeah. um but yeah rooting i think i i just love taking cuttings i love propagation in general i mean even if it's seed production, all that kind of stuff. But there's something like really satisfying, right? From taking a cutting and going from, you know, you're not a plant by yourself to making it.
Plant People: you know have a full root structure and you know helping it along through that process and then you're like i had one and now i have five and it does take time right if you're not a person, you know you're're come you're getting you're starting to plant and you're planting it.
shari: Okay.
Plant People: And this time last year, it didn't have any roots. It didn't even exist. And so it's much different than when you're buying it from a nursery, it's ready to go in the ground. It's several years old a lot of the time.
Plant People: I think sometimes we have to remind ourselves, but they do seem to really take off.
shari: who
Plant People: like i have Tons of plants, Sherry, you know, and I took cuttings of and um from from around the parts over the years and I have all all of them in my landscape now and uh they've been there i guess about five years and
shari: Yeah, that's about right, yeah.
Plant People: Year. Yeah, year three, I really saw like them flush out a lot more. And man, they're huge this year. um I've been really, really shocked.
shari: do
Plant People: So the time goes by pretty fast, in my I think.
shari: Yeah, you're doing other stuff.
Plant People: but
shari: you're you know You've got you got other things going on.
Plant People: Yeah, yeah. You got annuals to take care of, so.
shari: All the other things. But that that's about the timeline, and a lot of these... you know young plants from cuttings. Yeah, we we say first it sleeps, then it creeps, and then it leaps.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: And so about year three, you know, you're going to see a leap.
Plant People: Yeah. yeah and it does it goes it feels like it goes from
shari: um
Plant People: a foot tall it's been a foot tall for two years and then suddenly you're like this thing is five foot tall like it's enormous and then and then it bushes out so it gets like really tall and you're like it's just you know the the lanky teenager who doesn't know how to like walk and it's put in their body yet and then they beef out real you know get bulky and And then it's ready to take cuttings from.
Plant People: So you can have even more.
shari: but more. We should probably share this book.
Plant People: Yes. Yeah. Show it.
shari: so
Plant People: So what's the title and author?
shari: So this is the reference manual of Woody. plant propagation. um It's written by Michael Durer and Charles Hoosier. um And it talks about.
shari: bringing in woody plant material, either from seed, creating from seed. War. cuttings. or and tissue culture there's tissue culture here but that's kind of more beyond many people's you know ability.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: So. But this this talks, there's a preference in here. A lot of what I talked about is is in that. preference uh preface under um cuttings you know vegetative cuttings And then it's it's organized, you know, by plant.
shari: So there's scientific, common and scientific name both in here.
Plant People: okay okay
shari: um and And if you want to try starting some woodies from seed, you know, that's... that's also included so we just been cut doing vegetative here today but
Plant People: Yeah, I'm not. I'm like pretty patient. I mean, I feel like waiting five years for a plant is pretty, pretty patient, but the seed. thing is a whole new level of patience in my mind.
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. It's um I, I. tried Again, way I always bring it back to flowers. And and in comparison to a lot of these woody species, this is just like chump change. But Lysianthus take, you know.
Plant People: eight weeks to germinate and then you know it's like 24 weeks in order to you know have a plug size if you're doing it halfway right and the algae and it's just like it's algae growth and i'm just kind of like i need you to do something like i need i need something green faster and then i can take care of you but until i have something green i just i'm like i don't know what to do i don't know what to do and that's sherry's like an extra she's got all kinds of um
shari: he
Plant People: What did you call the one? It's something coffin. What'd you call it?
shari: Oh, the seed coffin.
Plant People: The seed coffin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
shari: Yeah.
Plant People: explain Tell people what the seed coffin is.
shari: Well, it is. It's a structure because viburnums are notorious. They have to go through. They they have. They have a complex dormancy. And so you're waiting two, three years for germination on a lot of our native vibraniums.
Plant People: Mm hmm.
Plant People: Huh?
shari: I know. So. In that time, you could imagine, you know, the squirrels could have their way, the chipmunks.
Plant People: yeah
shari: the the voles the you know whatever you know it's the seeds just sitting there and it's you know vulnerable to anything that might come along to eat it And so the seed coffin is contained.
shari: on all sides and it's got hardware cloth on top so you can you know water you know when you need to water And it basically excludes, it excludes out.
Plant People: Mm hmm. mm -hmm
shari: but As many things as we can exclude, you know.
Plant People: Yeah, yeah
shari: um with snails and slugs are still a problem.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: Over time we can't. We couldn't really get a good handle on that, but.
Plant People: You just need to put more beer down in the seat and down in the coffin.
shari: and the mammals. Yeah, you could. You can trap them that way. but But when we had trouble with snails and slugs, but a lot of these really slow growing plants from seed.
shari: can take years. And you wonder, how did you ever? you know, evolve and get enough. population to be you know to still be here among us you know
Plant People: Mhm.
shari: um But actually, it's an adaptation, you know, to wait out until conditions are better for survival.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: It's actually a survival adaptation. It's just when you really want those plants and you want them now, it's it's inconvenient.
Plant People: Like, how do I?
shari: But that's. How do I first, well, that's what, you know, vegetative propagation, that's, but you don't get the the genetic diversity, you know.
Plant People: Right.
shari: because it's clonal. What we're talking about today is clonal.
Plant People: Right. Right. Which is great if you want exactly what you already have.
shari: So.
Plant People: ah um But if you're if you're wanting to breed and cross things and yeah, I can get into some man plant breeding is fascinating and I love it, but I love it from an annual standpoint.
shari: Right. Yeah.
Plant People: The people that the geniuses who do breeding for, you know, i I was listening to a podcast once and there was a peony breeder, um one of the big peony breeders and just like.
Plant People: you know or you know We talk about dahlias taking a long time to get to breed, but you still get blooms in that first season. You know you can figure out if it's a love or a hate pretty in a year versus...
Plant People: you know you might breed a peony or you might breed some of these shrubs or whatever you know it is. And it's like, not only are you waiting for the seed to germinate, which could take two years, you're also then waiting.
shari: lady
Plant People: It might take you know a year for even it to be something. that you can look at and then another five years to even know if it's like valuable you know if it's blooms the color you want or if it's got a good shape to it or does it have good fall color you know that it's one plant. And that's why these plants that we buy are so expensive because they took so much time um to get there and just to get, you know, one to even figure out if it's.
Plant People: Pretty.
shari: you know
Plant People: It is.
shari: Yes, people's whole careers are dedicated to maybe you know, five plant releases or something.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah. yeah yeah And it's...
shari: Crazy.
Plant People: Listen, more power to him. I'm over here like, I could probably breed zinnias.
shari: will
Plant People: I could do that. And meanwhile, I'm like, no, I actually have can't do it.
shari: Still too long.
Plant People: Yeah. Oh.
shari: enough
Plant People: Yeah, mass prompts to those people and who are taking, there's it's just really big in the flower world right now, a lot of breedings going on, which is very exciting in the annual flower world.
shari: you know right
Plant People: And ah yeah, it's really exciting and just. the record keeping and the patience and all of that that goes along with it is Always very impressive to me. But okay, any last words, tips of wisdom from a Woody propagation standpoint?
shari: yes Well, I guess. um
shari: I guess give yourself some grace, you know, because.
Plant People: Oh, yeah.
shari: Yeah, because it, you know... It. You learn by failing.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: i learned I've learned more by failing than I ever have.
Plant People: How many plants have you killed, Cherry? I always tell people, horticulturists kill more plants than anybody else.
shari: So many.
Plant People: ah
shari: Yeah, you learn, you just learn real quick. that that you can't mourn them all, you know.
Plant People: Hehehehe!
shari: and they just
Plant People: Oh, so sad.
shari: ever.
Plant People: Anyways.
shari: Yeah. Okay, moving on. Um. But... to you know, we. we do There are a lot of variables that can that that can lead you toward success and and variables like that can lead you toward failure, right? and so Do this on a regular basis.
shari: Do it with things that that are not critical. Just do it.
Plant People: Yeah.
shari: you know, and Eat. And the failure you'll learn from and the success you'll learn from.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: and um Just you know that curiosity.
Plant People: You'll learn more from your failures, as we all know.
shari: Yes.
Plant People: um
shari: Yep. Yeah, I mean. um like syringa lilacs are notoriously difficult to
Plant People: and
shari: to root. as a vegetative cutting and you have to get really get it at the exact right time.
Plant People: of
shari: Hello. And and how do you know how do you how do you know what that time is?
Plant People: How dare they?
shari: Well, you fail. for
Plant People: Mm hmm.
shari: you know several years.
Plant People: You take good notes.
shari: and And with Syringa especially, you... you you know you start you so you start with like super green wood or or soft wood And then, you know. weekly.
shari: You take cuttings, right? And then you keep notes and you're like, oh, okay.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: So it has to be elongated at this length. And it, you know, it it needs to feel like this and it needs to look like this.
Plant People: Mm -hmm.
shari: And then... that very difficult lilac has just told you. It's secret.
Plant People: mm -hmm
shari: Right. And so.
Plant People: And now you're the queen of the lilacs, so.
shari: But you just. And now you're queen of the lilacs. And they're awesome. They're awesome, you know. um So. So that would be that would be my advice is just do it.
shari: you know?
Plant People: Yeah, I love that the like, you know, if you've got a plant and you're like I don't really need any more of this But that means that you can propagate it, tons tons of it, and you can give it away if it works. And if it doesn't, you've realized what you did wrong and it's not as important.
Plant People: And then when you do get your difficult lilacs or you know somebody else that you only have a little bit of. little bit to work with, it's the neighbors, right? yeah um You're much more likely to succeed.
shari: Mm -hmm.
Plant People: I think that's really wonderful, smart advice for sure.
shari: Yeah. me
Plant People: oh Well, wonderful. Sherry, I'm so glad you're here.
shari: Thanks.
Plant People: I do feel like I've bragged about you in the either in name or I just say, you know, I learned everything I know from somebody, not necessarily from the books, even though we do love this book we told you about.
Plant People: And I'll make sure that's in the show notes.
shari: We do love you.
Plant People: um
shari: Okay.
Plant People: That's a good one. But if you've got more questions, you know thoughts, if you want to know. Sherry and I actually have done a presentation on not necessarily taking
Plant People: uh cuttings but we do have some propagation in there on some uh woody cut options cut flower again we we know it's alexis here but if you're interested in some woody shrubs that can be used for cut flower propagation we also included some propagation of those in that powerpoint and that is available on the ccd website and you can go see it anytime but if you've got questions feel free to reach out sherry what is your where can people find you and we'll put We'll put it in the show notes, but just in case, where could people find you if they want to have beginner farmer type questions?
shari: Yeah. um Real easy, because I've been at UK forever. So it's just S, my my name is spelled S -H -A -R -I, S Dutton, D -U -T -T -O -N, no relation to Beth.
shari: Dutton Right. i do have I do have some some days, but but no relation. So sdutton at uky .edu.
shari: So super simple.
Plant People: Perfect. Yeah. Perfect. Awesome. And if you... Forget it or or you're driving and can't remember. Again, show notes or you know how to find us. And we, I know Sherry's email off off top.
Plant People: from the heart of these days. so So you can always ah reach out to us. You can do that on Instagram at Hort Culture Podcast. You can send us an email on Hort Culture Podcast at gmail .com.
Plant People: You know, you can find us through the CCD website. Any of those are our options and we can help you get in touch with Sherry. if If you've got some beginner farmer and be remember beginner farmer is 10 years or less and you're interested in a commercial operation, whether you've not done it yet and or you're already in the midst of it and have questions.
Plant People: Um, or, you know, if you're just like really into plants, uh, we also, Sherry also just likes to talk about plants. So ah always, yeah, obviously we get back all day.
shari: Obviously.
Plant People: We get up, we shouldn't just have our own podcast, Sherry.
shari: president
Plant People: Anyways, we're so glad you guys were here with us today. And we hope that you will check it out next time. Have a great one.
shari: Yep.
