Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Hort Culture, where a group of extension professionals and plant people talk about the business, production, and joy of planting seeds and helping them grow. Join us as we explore the culture of horticulture.
Speaker: Greetings, plant people. Greetings from Planet Earth. Does spooky season continue? I mean, it's year-round yes in the hearts of some. but You know, and I was thinking about, I don't know why I was thinking about that so much, Brett, but I thought, does Halloween really have to end after the day of? And I was like, of course it doesn't, because this is a season of perpetual darkness and maybe a little sadness for that. so That's a great point, Ray.
Speaker: And you know what the thing about darkness is? um it really like peaks in the middle of the night at midnight when people are usually sleepy. And I was thinking about this. And when I was younger, when I, when I wore a younger man's clothes, as Billy Joel would say, um,
Speaker: I used to go to like midnight releases of things pretty regularly. And I was curious. I just was thinking about that. And that's a novel thing. I have not seen Midnight except on film in a while. um And so what was the last thing? It doesn't have to be a movie. It doesn't have to be whatever. But the last thing that you went, you can remember going to like a midnight release four like it's coming out on friday and so thursday night at midnight you go and you you see the thing or or you get the thing do you do you all remember i did one last week for the new sarah j moss book i was i was a technically a vendor last week yeah i was technically a vendor at it so i was like working but um working okay what were you yeah i got i still dressed up wow yeah yeah oh yeah i gotcha
Speaker: yeah we did flower crowns it was like a whole ball like they did a whole ball so they called it i forget what they called it like um it whatever ball night court everybody dress yeah right she could not wait for azriel's backstory she had to be there for the night i haven't read it no don't oh gosh sorry i haven't started oh shoot never mind spoiler alert just get the that Anyways, don't spoil it for anyone. Yeah, that's fun. A on it book midnight release. But yes, it was fun. Is it in the ACOTAR lineage? Okay. It's the new book in that line. I see. Yeah.
Speaker: Wow. I never thought about books being like a midnight release, but that's that's fun. That's very recent. that's the But that's the only midnight release I think I've ever done ever because I'm a sleepy girl. It just happened to be recently. Yeah. It just happened to be last week. Yeah. Wow. Better late than never. I was going to say books as well because i went to the Harry Potter releases. Like like this is this is the vintage like it released in real time thing, right? Yeah.
Speaker: Right. Like in the 80s. Right. Not the 80s. She's like, wow, thanks for aging me there. I was born in the late 80s. So I mean, I guess it wasn't really at midnight anymore, but kind of ah like Big Blue Madness. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. wait, wait, wait. Take it back. The tickets.
Speaker: i yeah would go down to it at midnight. I would wait in line for basketball tickets Big Blue Madness. And that was fun. I didn't they didn't do that anymore. But... i I was one of those people. I would go to get my Big Blue Madness tickets and wait in line. Big Blue Madness wait was in like was ah like at Memorial Coliseum. Yes. Okay. Yep.
Speaker: For anybody who doesn't know, that is a thing where you can go and wait in line to get tickets to go see the basketball team practice before the season starts. To just go and watch them practice. I'm talking about practice. But it's really big deal. Not a game. Not a game. It's kind of a big deal. At the University of Kentucky, it's basically just a giant pep rally. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And and like the the camping out for the tickets is like part of the fun of the thing. It sort of becomes its own. yeah I just remember like studying for exams because I feel like it always hit at a time when there was like big exams in there or make midterms were that week or something. And so we'd be like sitting in the bleachers and I'm like studying some random economics thing. And I'm like, I don't i don't know how to do this. I can't drop your pencil down between the bleachers. ever I'm done. Cause back then we didn't all just carry our laptops around everywhere. Yeah. Not everybody had a tablet. Okay, Jessica.
Speaker: a paper line So we're, we're joined here today by the newest member of the CCD team, Annie Scott. I'm curious, Annie, your last midnight release experience, did you ever do one?
Speaker: Yeah, so i definitely remember doing the midnight release for the last Harry Potter book. um But i most recent, I worked in a movie theater in college.
Speaker: And so I'm pretty sure i I worked at those. So probably that's technically my past. You were present even if you didn't want to be. Yeah. I was earning money.
Speaker: I was more looking at popcorn on the floor. Yeah. yeah I actually don't think I've ever met anybody who worked at a movie theater. So that's kind of cool. It's a really sweet minimum wage gig. If you're going to get paid minimum wage, this is the one to do. so Yes. Watch all the movies in between.
Speaker: I think the last one that I distinctly remember was going and seeing the first 300 movie at midnight. that's a good one. Which was a number of years ago. And there were people who were like dressed up as, um as Spartan warriors and yelling and stuff. And it was kind of a fun, a fun vibe. Um,
Speaker: i Did you have your shield? i mean No, I was i was had a shirt on no shield. You've got the beard for it though right now. You're wearing part of the costume. story That's pretty cool. i was like if I was going to be anybody, I was probably going to be the guy that got like kicked into the pit. Nice.
Speaker: This is Sparta. The King's Emissary. Okay, see ya. I'm done. Early exit. But I think I might try to do that again because it is kind of a fun vibe, especially people are excited. Yeah, and it's that group think. Anytime you get in a big stadium or you get in a group of other people with a singular focus, there's a certain energy and vibe to that. doesn't matter if it's a book release, movie release, or Reed and I do like game releases, midnight game releases.
Speaker: even though that's online, not in person, sometimes you're still caught up in the community that whatever single focus. What I'm hearing from that, Ray, is that you would be a part of a cult.
Speaker: um Multiple ones. That is cult vibes. Alexis and sociology. here for the energy. We call that communities of interest. Yeah, exactly. It's only a cult if it's bad. It's only a cult. It's transcendent. Yes, that's right. It's a communities of interest, a very singular focus. You wouldn't understand. and You wouldn't understand because we don't talk about it in public. Yeah. Did you say no do you say the one that you went to, Ray?
Speaker: Um, it would probably be the last one would have been probably game releases. I've been to lots of midnight movie showings, all the Hobbits and Harry Potters. I was a huge fan of all of those and and some book releases, but I can't think of a book that I picked up at midnight though. I mean, do book, do book places kind of do that sort of thing? That's pretty cool. I know there's book parties, release parties. Yeah, they've been starting to do that. Have they? more That's super cool. I'm going to have to check into that, Brett. So let's pick out a book. Let's just go to one of these midnight book releases. Let's do it.
Speaker: Yeah. Let's the newest release of the Merriam Webster dictionary. Whatever. You guys having a midnight thing? Let's get ourselves going. Encyclopedias. Encyclopedia. Yeah. World Britannica. Britannica discs at all. You have a disc release party. Anyway, that's, ah but I think,
Speaker: what that had me doing was kind of reflecting back on just times in the past. And for some reason, this time of year, Halloween time is when I associate like associated with having gone to a lot of those things or like being in and reading the Harry Potter books after the releases or whatever. was like kind of a fall into winter. And I think today we want to talk a little bit about spending time in the past, maybe the more immediate past and relative relevant to horticulture and horticulture operations. um Alexis, you kind of had the idea of asking you, so you saw the article that Annie wrote on the CCD site, thought maybe this would be a good episode. You want to, yeah I put it on the te do you want to crush it out of the park?
Speaker: I don't know if I'm going to crush it, crush it, but it'll get off. Yeah. crutch it no yeah So I just, you know, this is one of the things that always talk about, like a CCD, but like what we've talked about on the podcast before is just sort of like looking back at your notes and you know so what, what worked, what didn't work so that you kind of set yourself up while things are fresh in your mind. You're like taking down these notes, looking back at the season so that when, you know, the excitement of all the seed catalogs come in in or you're, selling a bunch of CSAs or whatever it is, um you have some notes to go off of. And Annie wrote this great article that we'll link in in the show notes ah about just talking about like your end, every farmer end of season debrief checklist. And I was obsessed with that as the weirdo that I am. And hopefully some of you all listening will also be thoroughly obsessed with the idea like, just like a checklist. Sometimes we know we need to do it, but it's like hard to think about what we actually should be looking at. And so I was like, Annie, please come on and tell the people. all the things that they should be debriefing as the slower season, like the time just changed. And so like, it's dark. So take that little extra hour of dark, maybe do a little debriefing, um, once a week or something leading. Before you open the seed catalogs before. Yeah. Before you open the seed catalogs game over. It's on. Before tax season. full on I've already got notification from some of the seed catalog companies that they're like, Hey, they're coming in a week. They're trying to get in front of the Christmas catalogs, Jessica. Yeah. It's the Toys R Us catalog for gardeners. It's the Amazon. Now that Amazon and Walmart are doing paper catalogs again, they they've got to get in front of that.
Speaker: Got to get in front of that. treo yeah But Annie, do you want to kind of talk to us about like why to do this? Also maybe who you are, who you are since says you'll be new to the pod. Who you are as an individual? You'll be new to the podience. Oh, man. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, sure. ah So I'm Annie Scott. I'm an extension associate with the Center for Crop Diversification. so yeah, working alongside Brett and Alexis and Savannah and Gabe and Tim. um And I tend to gravitate towards the space of directing direct consumer sales models, CSAs, that that's sort of where my experience is.
Speaker: But ah yeah, in In terms of a farm business, I'm a big fan of a debrief and in other aspects of my life as well. um Like i I will debrief the game night that I have with my friends or whatever. So yeah,
Speaker: so ah yeah i um you know, you can diagnose that however you want to, but, um, I bet you're a journaler, aren't you very journal I do journal. I'm a big fan of like a new type thing. Um,
Speaker: yeah uh it's just really useful for me to process what happened in that way yeah so i mean i guess that's that kind of helps me but like i don't even necessarily know what the the debrief thing means um or like why how i mean maybe i should be doing it i didn't know i didn't realize that i was leaving game nights on debrief but um can you just like high level, what does that even mean?
Speaker: Yeah. And like for a farm, what does that mean? Yeah. so um when i think of a debrief, I think it is an intentional time that you sit down and you look at what happened in whatever span of time that you are interested in So it could be a certain event. It could be your whole season, um whatever the case may be. But it's just sort of Yeah, an opportunity like after you've sort of like come down a little bit from whatever adrenaline you've got, but before you're ready to start thinking about the next thing. um Just an opportunity to look at your successes or things that you want to make sure you do exactly the same way again, or the things that you're like, you know, that didn't work super well. What can we do differently? or
Speaker: Or i know exactly what to do differently next time, but I'm not going to remember in 10 months. So let's like have some sort of system for like writing down what it what it we want it to look like next time.
Speaker: Yeah. So this is sort of like like present you preparing future you so that future you isn't mad at us. I have all said that before. I'm just like... that I'm so mad at Past Alexis for not putting something down versus, wow, thank you, Past Alexis for know. I always say future Jessica is going to appreciate this. And when I get to those moments, I look back, especially at the county fair, and I go, oh, thank you, Past Jessica, for prepping all of this.
Speaker: For having it together. For debriefing. I always tell myself the great lie. Oh, I'll remember that. Oh, yeah. There's no way I'm forgetting that. And then 13 minutes later, ah forget. Yeah, it's not even months later. It's literally minutes later now. Like it used to Two days later, I'm like, now what was that again that I was having a big thought about? Yeah, I i thought that's what color I planted there, but I actually don't know.
Speaker: I don't know if that's ah something planted there at all or not or whatever. but Yeah, like what variety is selling grain right now and then you know you wait too long and then you can't really remember the next spring.
Speaker: know if it's something If it's something new. you know but so I think it i think there's two there's two different angles because there's i mean there's obviously a lot of different ways that people are, but um I think there's some people who are feel the way that you all are feeling where it's like, I'm not going to remember it, so I need to make some time to make sure that I sit down and do it. There's other people who are the replayers.
Speaker: They're just constantly thinking about it and replaying it and doing all that stuff. And I think for them, it's a matter of making the intentional time to let's get this down on paper, think through it, write it down.
Speaker: rather than just ruminating on it and spinning around in it for forever and ever. Is that is that kind of, and I know Annie, you and I maybe are different two different ah ends of the same spectrum there. Yeah, yeah, we've we've talked about that. But um it for me, i'm I'm the lucky combination that both forgets and also somehow like replays ah the thing in my head.
Speaker: So um yeah, in some cases, well really yeah it performs both tasks if you're if you're processing it via a written format you know you can release it um but at the same time still have that record for when you know however much time goes by after that you can say like oh yeah what was that thought so um yeah for for me it's both what what kinds of things do you would you imagine might
Speaker: be involved, like for specialty crop grower or somebody like that? Like what kinds of stuff it might be part of that debrief? Yeah. So I think it depends on the operation, but you you could be looking at your different market channels to ah see, you know, like where was effort going and did that pay off?
Speaker: um It could be looking crop by crop or you know at your various enterprises and doing the same thing. you know where Where did my effort go and did that pay off? Or was that just a huge headache for no reason?
Speaker: um it could be You could be looking at your labor. If you have a seasonal team um that had like certain strengths or certain weaknesses, that's something that's good to know for training your next season people next year. ah Yeah, just all kinds of um all kinds of applications, I think.
Speaker: Yeah, i think I think that it's also an opportunity for some honesty about the fact that this is a process and ah you're we're on a journey here and that Ooh, I have a whole gap in my records in August.
Speaker: How did that happen? Why did that happen? And then you remember back to August and you think, oh, I know how I felt in August as the heat and everything came, just my exhaustion was winding down or was ramping up and my energy was winding down. it was hot and that kind of stuff. And then think about processes next year that you could maybe have in place or things you could do do ahead of time. You're going to say something, Alexis?
Speaker: Yeah, I think when we think about debriefing sometimes, there it can be a little bit overwhelming for some folks. But in the way we say just about anything in horticulture, like something is better than nothing. And so sometimes it's overwhelming to think, you know, like if you're not ready to at this point in time and in your season,
Speaker: to maybe debrief and the actual numbers, like to go in and look at data, you know, look at your square, look at what at your QuickBooks, whatever it is you keep record of. you know, that stuff is still there if you've been inputting it in the first place. Like, so, you know, maybe taking that into account, but you could, you can go in and put like, and Brett will be shocked I'm saying this, but I think it's important to go in and put like your feeling about that, like about that crop or about that market. And, and Amy mentions this, um,
Speaker: in her news article, but it's like so that you can compare that. Okay, well, this crapper's real pain in the butt, but it did make me a lot of money. And so, you know, you can kind of weigh those scales on. Well, I hated harvesting it, but I could harm I could pay somebody and then, you know, i could still make money doing it down the line. So I think that there is like sometimes this like overwhelm of, well, I'm not ready to dig into the data and oh, God, you know, it's not as good as I want it to be.
Speaker: like Debrief even with just like how you're feeling about something or like something got powdery mildew or any of that type of knowledge is good to just put down. And then when you're ready to dig in, maybe it is closer to February, you can kind of compare the actual data, the numbers to what you as the grower were experiencing. um so just like a because it can be scary right you're exhausted this time of year and the last thing you want to do sometimes is look through your quickbooks unless you're a weirdo like me and annie and jessica and look through that and say like what made me money or how much should i be charging for this or blah blah blah The qualitative stuff. I want to know yeah the quantitative. yeah want to know the quantitative stuff. You can also keep track of that other stuff that Annie mentioned. The qualitative, yeah, as well. and And Annie, you mentioned in your article, to celebrate your good work. So what kind of good work would you recommend celebrating? Because let's celebrate. Yeah, for sure. Well, so
Speaker: i the the word I use internally to describe what you were just talking about, Alexis, is like iteration. um So just um instead of viewing like, you know, if you had a rough season, instead of being like, that was a failure, I am a failure. um Like not treating it so much like that as like, okay, I have some new data that I can use to inform the next decision that I make. ah
Speaker: and Yeah, like so not seeing your season as a finished product necessarily, but just like a continual um change or development in your operation.
Speaker: And yeah, I think successes go along um with that idea of iteration. And so, yeah, some things that come to mind, like if you um if you have a team of, if you have hired people or your family helping you or whatever, like if you saw somebody shine during the season, I think your debrief session is a great opportunity to identify that, um celebrate it in a way that that person appreciates and is comfortable with. um
Speaker: I say that because like some people don't love, you know, big public praises. Right, right. But ah yeah, so like if you had a teammate who did something really well, that's something to celebrate. If there has been a challenge that you've had for a long time in your business that you finally were able to figure out this season where you tried something new and it finally worked, like that is definitely something to acknowledge and celebrate and write down so that you do it again next year. Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, those are some things that come to mind. um If you had an event that was really successful, if you had um even like a customer who made a big difference to you or something like that, like that's good to identify and say, like okay, how how can we make opportunities like that happen more?
Speaker: and Or like you know um like a marketing thing. I heard a um farmer recently say they ah had pickups for their CSA they did at their farmer's market. And for the first time, they actually put their CSA bouquets up on the table. They usually keep them behind so nobody wants to buy them. Well, they put them up on the table. They put a sign in front of it that said like CSA customers only.
Speaker: And they were able to get, literally had people signing up for the CSA because they wanted those bouquets for the next month. because they saw the difference in them. And so like, that's a weird success that you would write down. So like, when you look back at your numbers and you're like, hey, why did we randomly have a bunch of CSA signups in August? Well, it's like, that was because we advertised them in this different way that we didn't even mean to advertise them at. You know, like that's a thing that you might not really think about writing down as a success, but as success.
Speaker: to your point, like a data point moving forward. And like I love how you said, like thinking of it, you know your failures as I'm not just the failure, it's just information. And it takes some of the emotion out of making decisions. And you know being a business owner is does have an emotional side to it, but it also doesn't. so like yeah, maybe you had some real bad failures this year. And it happens because we work with Mother Nature, but it's a data point. It's and not everybody is like data driven. But to think of it that way, take some of the emotion out of bit of it. It's like it's not all your fault, you know, at least that helps me. Yeah. And like
Speaker: Yeah. Speaking about, you know, sort of that orientation towards the past or towards the future or whatever, like, yeah, it can be easy to get like caught up in diagnosing yeah who is at fault for this thing that happened? Is it me? Was, you know, trying to figure all that out. Um, was it nobody's fault even, but, um,
Speaker: Yeah, like the sooner that you can transform that into like, okay, well, next year I'm gonna train this skill specifically. Like I'm gonna make sure that my farmer's market team knows to do this or whatever, or um you know I need to shift responsibilities around so that this person isn't trying to do these four very critical tasks all at the same in the same week. um you know Things like that, like the sooner you can,
Speaker: go from I'm a failure to like, you know, I will make these three changes next year and we will have a different outcome. It that also, for me anyway, it like really helps to take the emotion out of it.
Speaker: That's like that action more along the lines of that action oriented route that you're taking is that you're talking about. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: it's a continuous improvement too. It's like times that I've journaled and, and, you know, you're talking about something, CSA is marketing, you know, production, you, ah you add all that together and there's so many, you know, things that could go wrong and so many things that could go right. But it seems like if you journal or, you know, jot this stuff down, you're, you can link, you know, what you did and, you know, modify future actions. That's pretty cool. You have, ah You know, some sort of accounting of that season. And ah it'd be interesting to hear from you guys that that do this sort of activity. I mean, do you tend to lean more towards how you felt about things or do you tend to lean more towards the numbers of things? Like we're talking about production, how many units you moved at what price? Or, I mean, what does journaling look like for you guys? I know we've talked about both things so far in this conversation, both how you felt about things possibly. And plus also, did I make any money or profit doing this thing? and Do I want to do it again? i mean, is there a right or wrong mix of that sort of thing as you're, you know?
Speaker: cataloging the season? i think there's a good mix. Reflecting the season? A good mix of it. it can be both. um An example that we've had this year, ah my father-in-law makes soap that he sells at the market with us. And this year he has sold an abundance of soap and it's also something he really enjoys, right? So even like not he's getting emotional about it but you know some years are better than others with it but it's something that he's also passionate about doing so you know also having you know it's something he enjoys so that's part of the emotional part to it but actually this year having like those numbers showing that i was like wow we have sold a lot of soap and people actually are like bulk want to bulk order it and we have that actually like you know tracked this time
Speaker: I think you could have like a good mix of ah both of those emotional and, and like the data driven. um Same thing like with the sorghum that we do. That's more of, ah I would say more emotional, like that standpoint of it, just because it's something my husband enjoys. he wants to do. And sometimes it yeah sells really well and other years it doesn't. And this year it is,
Speaker: of course, it is sold really well and now he is regretting not processing more. And I've heard that a hundred times. so Well, if he wants it, if he enjoys doing it, then he now he sees the need to do more of it. Win-win. So yeah. All of the previous years, it's been very just like, well, I'm just doing it because I enjoy it and it's okay if we don't make money on it. Well, you know, I, this is something I enjoy. But now this year we actually have more of a record of like, okay, you actually moved three cases of this stuff. So yeah, we probably should next year focus on processing more of it. Right.
Speaker: The juice is worth the squeeze. From standpoint, that's justification. The juice is indeed worth the squeeze. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, you know, like one thing I've seen when people, we know that lot of our specialty crop growers do have multiple outlets, right, for their markets. They do CSA and farmer's market and direct restaurant or whatever. And...
Speaker: I think sometimes like it's that combo. So you might feel like this is this market is a really great avenue for me, but it didn't looking at the numbers, it might not have made as much money as something else. But there's potential there. You know, I think there's room for growth. So, you know,
Speaker: like how do i make that number bigger? And because I like this outlet like that, I think sometimes it's like, you can be like, well, why wouldn't you stick with your top three performing? Well, because the one is burning me out. Yeah, it makes the most money, but it's burning me out. So how can I have a better like, you know, work life balance or or something that I can keep my employees on for longer or something along those lines. And I'll work on a way to boost those numbers, you know, and and there's other decisions behind that. But like,
Speaker: I think sometimes it's okay to come from the emotional side because it's all about the sustainability, right? Not just money, but like you personally being a farmer for a longer period of time. You have to enjoy it. Just depends on your goals.
Speaker: Yeah, it depends on your goals, right? And so, you know, work on a way to improve that market or hire somebody if you need help to make that market better, you know, and you have the data to support that. But um yeah, that's one something like I've been working on is, you know, how do you how do you balance those? What does that look like when you want to make a choice that like the numbers don't quote unquote support? What does that actually mean? And how do you make it better? um I think is a can be a tough one for a lot of our farmers.
Speaker: and I would add to that, like, well, speaking about, like, sort of the journaling aspect, um I, like I said, like, sort of like to review my year, like, New Year's Eve or whatever.
Speaker: and um i have had years where I am like, oh, I've been like i've had this feeling of like, wow, I'm running at max capacity and i I really can't keep this up for like nine months straight.
Speaker: Or like felt or or, you know, like, man, that was a really crazy weekend. Like, I can't wait for some rest just like over and over and over again. um And so, like, yeah, like, you can be your own reminder in that way, like, in in a um journaling practice or whatever. But, um you know, if you have a trusted loved one who might have, like, even if they're not in the business with you, but someone who can offer their perspective on, like, yeah, if there's a crop that, like, you want to, like,
Speaker: grow more of or whatever, but then they're like, listen, this is taking years off your life. You know, that person. Yeah. it It's hard to invite that feedback, but um yeah, sometimes other people can have can give you ah outside perspective on you having that person who is in that industry as well with you or you know even not that having somebody you know in the same kind of realm who knows like you know the the background or the work that stuff goes in there like i bounce a lot of things off alexis you know um it's beneficial right because they kind of know what all goes into it it's like uh my one of my brothers was like i think i'm gonna grow pumpkins and i was like what why and he's just like because i'm gonna grow a bunch of pumpkins and make a bunch of money from them and i was like whoa we need to we we're not gonna do this right because you know in his mind he was like this i can go i can do this crop and it'll be great it'll be easy but um
Speaker: you know we found we're fighting We're finding other things you know that that are better suited. Yes. Staying busy with other things. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. God. You know you mentioned, you know if you've if you've got a list of goals, I'm big on this, when thinking about debriefing or journaling or reflecting, um if I have a lifted list of goals that's guiding whatever I'm doing, the overarching themes, And I always go back to that to say, is what I'm doing aiming at what where I want to be? And that's a big part of, and sometimes that's a,
Speaker: That's a formal process, but sometimes it's just sitting down and thinking through the season. It's even better if you can catalog this in some way that you can go back and look at later. But for me, it's kind of looking at those goals and linking your actions that you're taking. Are you progressing to where you want to be? And there's some things I've done in my life or worked with producers. And when we think about it in those terms,
Speaker: They've decided, well, I'm getting good at this thing. I'm getting good at growing pumpkins, but it's not accomplishing my goal of being in the black in three years or whatever. And for me, linking is ah is a big concept of linking you know those things. But you've got to have those goals in mind and kind of keep going back to those things over and over again. And I've worked with producers and that's really helped us, you know, and always that go back to the same questions is what you're doing now, supporting where you want to be.
Speaker: And I don't know if that's part of the process and the way you think about it, Annie, or not, but it's part of the way I think about that kind of in big terms. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you know your goals and um I don't know, like sometimes,
Speaker: what comes the first thing to come out of a debrief is like this was a problem or you know these were my 10 problems um and so it
Speaker: like definitely that's a good place to start but i think the more valuable thing that you can do in that conversation is say like okay Either you know if there is an easy solution to that problem, go ahead, write it down, put it on the calendar for when you're going to make that change.
Speaker: But if it is something that is going to take more thought, more problem solving, you need some collaboration, and you need more information before you know the path forward. like decide what that first step is to untangling that mess. And that's the thing that you put on your calendar. um And also like, you know, have an owner for it. Maybe that's you or maybe that's um somebody else in your business. But um yeah, being able to, um even if you don't see exactly how you're going to get to point B, like if you know the first step or two ahead, like start with that and then
Speaker: Kind of the next steps. Baby steps. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Big little steps, whatever kind of steps that it takes, I guess. yeah But like making sure that, yeah, it's it's easy to just be like, okay, um yeah figure out profitability for watermelons or whatever. Like, um yeah that is a hard thing to cross off the to cross off the list. But if it is um you know the the first step towards that is um yeah calculating your costs or whatever. like And the first step towards that is um you know have a look at my inputs or whatever. like
Speaker: ah Having an owner and having a time bound um yeah just a path, you have like a map to success. Yeah, exactly. makes it more likely it's going to happen and not slip off the radar.
Speaker: And Steve Isaac, Dr. Isaacs, ah told me many, many years ago we were doing, actually, I think it was, a you know, it was dairy record keeping years ago. we used to teach a class together on that. um In one of Ray's many other lives. Yeah, another role in Extension years ago. Because i did not know until this very moment. I was today years old when I realized Ray was teaching dairy classes.
Speaker: a long time That was a long time ago in a galaxy far away, Alexis. But, um you know, and he talked, Dr. Isaacs talked a lot about opportunity cost. And I've heard you guys mention that at different times. but And that was always, a and it became more and more of a big concept for me throughout my Extension career. is, you know, with the time that I've had that I've spent this past year, I reflect on that and say, is there anything else that I could have done to meet whatever overarching goals that I have and substitute in something else? But there's this concept of I keep coming back to that on any kind of reflection activity is opportunity cost. And that's one of the questions he said, you always have to ask yourself. you know, you're allotted this amount of time and you can fill it up with any kind of activities, depending on what your goals are. um
Speaker: You know, is there something else you could have done instead of growing pumpkins, ju Jessica? Could you have done more sorghum or, you know, even in a broader sense, you know, could you have done something to accomplish, you know, your life and your family goals and your personal goals and your operational goals? But, you know, he talked a lot about opportunity cost as it kind of relates to this general conversation we're happened we we're having today I love an opportunity cost.
Speaker: Well, sometimes it'll drive you nuts, but I'm like, well, could have done anything to make me any happier? i don't know, but it's part of my reflection process now, kind of at the end of the year. i'm like, well, yeah, you know, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker: activities or if I didn't what could I do that would be more productive for me that I you know would be also you know more enjoyable more productive a better fit I guess is what I'm getting at because I know that farming and production is a business but doesn't it have to be a fit for you personally and for your family your family structure also kind of thing uh in a broader sense but think about things like you're less likely to take a job that you're driving four hours each way for because like you know it's it's it's still you know business oriented in that way but yeah no i love talking about opportunity costs of like roadside stand versus farmer's market and it's like yeah you might make less money but uh you didn't drive and do all this stuff and blah blah blah but Exactly. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. And that's a good thing, like to debrief of just, you know, you can look at those, you know, markets and the amount of money you made and like, is this market better than this market? Well, this one was closer. So, you know, um there's some ah sometimes it's not a, not a straightforward just because something was more profitable doesn't mean it was a better
Speaker: Mm which you know profitability is nice don't get me wrong that's very nice but if it's uh if it's not working for you and it's still profitable still a yeah i guess is what i'm getting at yeah yeah so sustainability kind of plays into that too yeah you to keep keep on keeping on yeah that or like sometimes if um Yeah, there was something that was really frustrating in the moment, but then the data comes back and yeah, it turns out it was super profitable. Like it could be that the next year, like you feel less bad about it because you're like, I, you know, I'm confident that this is right. Might've been worth it. Have more peace about it. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. The money equaled the, or the pain equaled money. So her money is peace. Okay. Fight me on that. Don't hear me say that. yeah yeah I said it. All right. I meant it. I said it. I just believe they say they won't you won't be happier if you're richer, but like I would like to test the theory on that. Please. Thank you. You would like to know breaking point that theory. I'd like to know firsthand if that is actually true, if money does not make you happy because like I have, I need the data. Well, the data the data actually suggests that
Speaker: money does make you happy up to a point. but at that point Up to a point, yes, Brent. And that point is probably higher. I like to see for myself. i like yeah You just want to see how how high you go and how much more miserable you get. Is it different for every person? What do we...
Speaker: You know, Alexis, soil will do good where it's at, but if it's in the process of erosion, it still is destructive. So I'll leave it with that. What? and know All right. Wait, explain thought process on that one. You lost me. If you're doing something that's constantly constantly wearing you down, even though it could be profitable, I guess in the long run, I've done some things in the past that's been very profitable. Ray's trying to prevent a moral dust bowl.
Speaker: Yes, exactly, Brett. We don't want that. A John ah john back Steinbeck for the podcasting age. I like that reference a lot. Exactly. We don't want the desolation and the dust that takes the paint off your cars.
Speaker: it For those Steinbeck fans. But um but yeah, it's ah and and all of this matters. I mean, we're we're kind of bouncing around a little bit, but it's all great conversation because isn't that what the reflection piece is? And does it and I guess I'll ask you this, Annie. Is there a formula for this reflection or is it different based on... Action items, Annie. You know how we love action I do. I love action items. i love And I love a good template.
Speaker: I do. I love a good template. Is it kind of template driven? Do you have big pieces that are... that have to be in place kind of, you know, people that you think should in place. yeah Yeah. Um, I don't have a template, sorry. ah but what I can offer you instead is, um, like, first of all, get it on the calendar, like to have a conversation about this. o i like yeah Second of all, a think carefully about who you want to invite into this process. Um, because
Speaker: you know Sometimes ah there can be too many opinions, but on the other hand, it you know there may be members of your team that you work less closely with and um you know they might have something very important to say. So like consider how, yeah, the extent to which your different teammates or partners are involved um could be that you, like ask some folks for an email, whereas you want others to be in the meeting with you or something like that. I don't know. um
Speaker: Then i would set some clear parameters over, um yeah, like what facets of your business or your season or your event or whatever it might be um that you want to set out as like an agenda for you for your debrief meeting.
Speaker: and um And then stick to that. you know If somebody wants to bring up this other thing or something that happened five years ago or whatever, like you know try to keep it centered on the the topic at hand.
Speaker: um And then i think it might be also useful to organize your time into um you know asking questions of, yeah, like what worked? What was the success? What was awesome? What do we want to do the exact same way?
Speaker: um what things need to be in place in order for us to do that the exact same way again. um And then so like, you know, that's one chunk of time and then your other chunk being like, okay, what can we do differently? um And not trying to keep it away from like assigning blame um and instead saying what the thing is that could be different next time that you want to look forward to instead of looking back and pointing fingers. um
Speaker: And then once you have yeah those action items or your to-do list for for the next time, um make sure that those have a you know, someone is responsible for them and they know to start thinking about them at a certain time.
Speaker: um Yeah, that's how I would do it if I were you. And to be clear, sometimes this debriefing meeting is you with you and you're like, okay, Alexis, let's talk about what what went wrong this year. And then Alexis is like, um well, you didn't set up the blah, bla blah, blah. And I'm like, no, no, Alexis, we're not assigning blame here. the trellising should have happened, we'll do better. The weather. Yeah. And then, you know, if you're talking to yourself. Oh, hold on. It's fine. you You said the words do better.
Speaker: And so whenever you hear it do better. That's judgy, Alexis. as Well, what does that like? That's not quantifiable. Like what's yeah what's the actionable? We're going to do it by April of next year. Yeah. Do it earlier or.
Speaker: um Yeah. A lot more time. Not just different equipment or whatever. um Yeah. So this process is going, it's looking back and going forward at the same time. It sounds like you're kind of linking, you know, where you've been to where you want to be kind of thing. Exactly.
Speaker: Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. And, and, you know, it seems like this would be an easy thing, but I find it something difficult just, and you said something that just, you know, is super important. You set a date or whatever you you're intentional about make yourself doing this thing. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, ah because you kind of sometimes have to be intentional to do it, because in the rush, you know, especially in the kind of, you know, things that we're talking about, you're always in a rush to to be somewhere is doing something.
Speaker: You know, in operations, it's a small business, you know, you're a small business or large business owner, essentially, in charge of oftentimes production and marketing and time is short. And if you don't, if you're not intentional about this, it seems like that it, it doesn't get done sometimes.
Speaker: And i I would also offer like a couple of tools that are useful to help you do this. um The reminder app on your phone. um You can even, if you have an iPhone, like to tell Siri, remind me in 10 months to do blah, blah, blah. um ah I've had several jobs where i have been the,
Speaker: Like instead of Siri, I'm the person who is like reminding me to do this. And so that's what I do is just then turn around and tell Siri. um I just kind of love a lot of those daily. i have like 10 of them on my phone right now.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. and then um I would also say a voice note um is great for when um otherwise it might be a good time for journaling, but you are driving or whatever, you know, like that's a way to capture an idea if you um if you can't you're on the tractor and you're like oh no i need to remind myself just have a thought that fence is going to need repaired because of my tractor because of said tractor i'm on right now yeah
Speaker: whoops amazing well any last kind of words of wisdom as we wrap up annie like i said we'll link uh annie's news article which is in beautiful bulleted format quick easy read um just to kind of talk go back through and talk if you're a visual person like i am i can't always listen and be like wait what did they say to do although all of you are very smart who are listening and probably have it deep in your brain you just got to fish it out so any lasting words of wisdom you would recommend andy ah Well, it's just an echo of your earlier ah words of wisdom, but, you know, anything is better than nothing. So if if your debrief is five minutes and it's literally just jotting down, you know, the couple of feelings that you felt um and and you're going to look at the data later or whatever, like that, that's a perfectly valid place to start.
Speaker: So. Sometimes mine are, I look back in my notes, you know, periodically and like, what did I write down for this time last year? And I have just like giant letters, do not plant zinnias in tunnels, Alexis. like And I was like, oh yeah, that was a bad idea. I almost And you said, thank you, Pastor Alexis.
Speaker: Thank you, Pastor Alexis. And I love how I called myself out specifically. Sometimes that works better. So there's my word of wisdom, call yourself out in print. Amazing. Well, Annie is a member of our CCD crew. So if you'd like her direct contact, because you've got more questions about, you know, what does a debrief look like or what else should you be considering, you can find her email on our website, ccd.uky.edu. Just go to People, you'll find her as well as the rest of the team on there if you have any connections you can also contact us and we can get info to annie if it's directly to her um gmail is in the show notes hort culture podcast gmail.com you can also follow us and message us on instagram at hort culture podcast uh and so we would love to hear from you and if you just needed some help on where to get started that is what we're here for so please feel free to reach out Also, if you loved to this episode, please leave it five stars. It helps other people find us and tell us what you are excited about debriefing on in your five star review.
Speaker: ah But anyways, we are so glad you were here with us today and we hope you have a great one. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
