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Branching Out: The Evolution of Tree Care and Safety with Kristoffer Rasmussen
81 Plays2 years ago
Welcome back to this insightful episode of The Better Contractor as we discuss the world of tree care and safety with Kristoffer Rasmussen, a seasoned arborist and safety expert. From his humble beginnings on a family farm in Wisconsin to becoming a leading figure in arboriculture training and safety, Kristoffer shares his journey and the passion that drives him. We explore the importance of safety protocols, the evolution of tree care technology, and the role of accreditation in elevating industry standards. Discover valuable insights into creating a culture of safety, the benefits of advanced training techniques, and the future of arboriculture with emerging technologies. Whether you're an industry professional or simply curious about the art and science of tree care, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and inspiration. Tune in and learn how dedication to safety and excellence can transform not only your business but the entire industry.
#BetterContractorPodcast #HiringPractices #WorkforceDevelopment #PerformanceOverPedigree #CompanyCulture #EmployeeRetention #JobMarketTips #ContinuousLearning #InterviewTips #TalentAcquisition #Arboriculture #TreeCare #SafetyTraining #UrbanForestry #TCIA #ISA #ChainsawSafety #ClimbingTechniques #WorkplaceSafety #TreeIndustry
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:11
Speaker
All right, guys, welcome back to another episode of The Better Contractor. Today, I'm joined by my trusty co-host Travis. How are you, buddy? Good to see you. And also Christopher Rasmussen. How are you? Doing great. So Christopher, you've got a lot of history with TCIA and training. And just tell us a little bit more about you and kind of what got you into this industry and passionate about safety. Oh.
00:00:38
Speaker
Well, in passion, that's the correct verb to use. Passion is a verb, right? That's the correct verb to use there.
Christopher's Background and Transition
00:00:49
Speaker
So my journey in arbor culture began with a deep rooted passion for the outdoors and a fascination with trees. I grew up in Wisconsin, around the Oshkosh, Wisconsin area. So those are familiar with that. It's the home of the experimental
00:01:08
Speaker
Aircraft Association, but we had a family, a small family farm. It wasn't our full-time business, but we had a farm where we did hunting. We also raised, had a tree farm. That's where I really learned and honed my chainsaw skills and had some brushes with death. Because it was before anybody told me that there was such things as safety protocol.
00:01:37
Speaker
But my dad had a construction business and I grew up in that. In the 80s, we had a crash and so he ended up going to work for a municipality. The construction business that I was supposed to take over didn't materialize. I ended up moving down to Texas.
00:02:03
Speaker
Didn't think I would stay in Texas for very long, but I moved down to Texas in the late 80s and worked for a construction company. The whole time I was also doing tree work kind of on the side. Again, it was my passion. But the construction work was working from height, so I was doing
00:02:28
Speaker
I was building forming forms for elevator shafts. I realized at that time, I love working from heights. Most of my tree experience had been on the ground, more of like a logging type, cutting trees from the ground and logging them.
00:02:51
Speaker
In Texas, I got exposed to line clearance contractors. I was like, I've got to learn how to climb. I already had the gear because I'm working on these elevator shafts, hanging off the side of forms, working with cranes. I taught myself to climb based on that.
00:03:19
Speaker
I found TCIA and ISA, and so I started pursuing getting legit credentials.
Training Arborists and Emphasizing Safety
00:03:31
Speaker
So I honed my skills to learn and to train, and I found out that as my interest in the industry grew, that I was really drawn to the safety aspect of it.
00:03:49
Speaker
And so not only to, because I knew that was important, not only for the workers, but also for the wellbeing of our environment. And then as an instructor, I had the privilege of sharing my knowledge and expertise with inspiring or aspiring arborists and teaching them climbing techniques.
00:04:18
Speaker
And I got a great story just when I was in Houston at Save a Tree. I pull up to do their audit and a guy comes out. His name is Justin. He comes out and he goes, you probably don't remember me. And he says, we met back in 2012 and I wanted to learn to climb and you taught me to climb. And from there I went on, I started my own business and then
00:04:48
Speaker
I realized that I wanted to do something more and, and, um, and then now he's a sales arborist, uh, with, um, uh, save a tree. And so I posted what did a little bio and posted on my LinkedIn. Uh, but again, that spark, it was, it was so satisfying. Um, or, uh, I would just to, to know that that spark that I, um, I passed on to that climber.
00:05:17
Speaker
who had never been really been in the tree industry before, and then what he went on to do, and then we meet up, you know, years later. So that was pretty cool.
Connecting Stories in Tree Care Industry
00:05:26
Speaker
And I've got all sorts of stories about, you know, meeting up with people. And in fact, I proposed to the TCIA magazine, the editorial committee, I said, hey, we should do a piece on
00:05:46
Speaker
just the connections that happen in the tree care industry because, you know, tree people are real tight. You've been to the expos, you've been to the tree climbing comps. I just, I love how they're so willing to share what their knowledge with other people. Like if you're a climber and you want to learn and you don't know anything about it and you go to those competitions
00:06:14
Speaker
where it's the best of the best, those guys will take time out. And if you show an interest in something, they'll take time out and they'll show you their gear. They'll, they love, you know, again, you get them talking about trees and their gear and you can't shut them up. So I do love that of those expos and stuff is meeting those guys, you know, and seeing their passion.
Transition to Accreditation and Training Focus
00:06:38
Speaker
And I'll tell you what, some of those guys are good. When it went, when they do those competitions, it's just crazy to watch how fast they are.
00:06:48
Speaker
I don't know. Does that give you a kind of a snapshot? Well, let me tell you where I'm currently at. So I went from getting my ISA certifications, my certified tree care safety professional certification, and I went from there and I did some work with
00:07:09
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:07:17
Speaker
larger companies like Arbor Masters, for instance, that does residential commercial contracts. I went on from that and did work for the city of Fort Worth. And then most recently, I was with the city of Dallas managing urban forestry department in public works. Just left that at the end of April to do accreditation audits, do training,
00:07:47
Speaker
kind of, kind of full time. I get, when I left Dallas, everybody assumed I was retiring. And I was like, no, not retiring, but just having a different chapter in my life. So, so that's what I'm
Importance of Accreditation Audits
00:08:04
Speaker
currently doing. And the accreditation, so
00:08:08
Speaker
The accreditation portion plays a real crucial role in ensuring that tree companies adhere to established standards, safety, professionalism,
00:08:25
Speaker
And so conducting those assessments and giving the company's feedback helps them identify areas of improvement and ultimately raises the bar for the industry. I think that's important. Talking about like raising the bar, that's something we're trying to do even through this podcast and some of the stuff we're doing is raising the bar for all contractors. But you mentioned doing audits. Were those audits more like insurance company related or who were those audits for?
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, so accreditation audit, and I think audits, that's what they label them, but I think audit's kind of the wrong word because when I go to an accreditation audit or visit, let's call it a visit, I'm coming up alongside management. I'm not there
00:09:19
Speaker
to catch them doing something wrong. But if we identify something that is not being done properly, whether that's policy or maybe the policy and the training isn't being imparted
00:09:37
Speaker
to the guys in the field. So we this process helps to identify maybe where that they're deficient. And so they can focus on getting all of those things dialed in.
00:09:51
Speaker
you know, so when I leave an audit, they're not going to be surprised by, you know, what they what my report says, because I'm upfront about everything that I find if, if I find that they're like, the CPR first aid is not up to date.
00:10:11
Speaker
Okay, how do we get that resolved? What's your path to get that done? And do you need a trainer? What do you need from me to get you finished up? And that's how I approach it.
00:10:26
Speaker
Now you did talk, so the other portion of that, there is a loss control portion of, so TCIA and Arbor Max have kind of teamed up. And so there is a loss control and we call it review. So if your insurance is through Arbor Max, or I guess Arbor Max is actually the underwriter.
00:10:53
Speaker
If your insurance is through them, then you'll probably get scheduled with somebody like me to come and do a loss control review. It's very similar to an accreditation audit, but it's through the eyes of insurance. So things like I'm looking at your structure, your electrical system, your plumbing, you know, what's your roof?
00:11:18
Speaker
How old is your roof? Things like that. But we're also throwing in all of the safety checkpoints or check boxes that I would do with an accreditation audit. So kind of giving them the best of both.
00:11:38
Speaker
TCIA and like I said, TCIA and ArborMax came up with this checklist and they said, okay, statistically companies that follow all these steps are safer companies. And that's ultimately what they want is a safe company. We have to pay for insurance, but we hope that we never have to use it.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's good. Thinking of our listener real quick.
Advice for Contractors on Safety and Policies
00:12:05
Speaker
So a lot of our listeners are going to be business owners, people in the industry, stuff like that. In your experience, what is three things that you think from these audits in your time in the field that you would impart wisdom upon them with? Like what are three things that they should be doing, you know, that you see during these audits?
00:12:24
Speaker
So number one would be a very robust safety policy. So that, I mean, that's more than three things right there, but a safety policy is your blueprint to a safe working environment. So safety policy, employee handbook. And again, TCIA has templates, they have
00:12:54
Speaker
There is help. I don't know what elements I need in an employee handbook. There's templates out there for that. But that gives you, so your safety policy, your employee handbook gives you a pathway not only to limit your liability as from a company's standpoint, but also you're showing your employees
00:13:23
Speaker
that this is your roadmap. Here's what we have laid out. You can expect to have evaluations every year. Here's my training curriculum. You come in as a climber. And then if you want to, you move on to a, I mean, I'm sorry, come in as a groundsman, come in and then you move on to climber, aerial lift operator.
00:13:54
Speaker
They have, you know, having all those in place, I think enhances your ability to attract personnel that, that quality, quality personnel. How often do you see disconnect between those who have actually implemented good safety policies, have a good handbook.
00:14:18
Speaker
but aren't necessarily implementing how often do you run across that, where they might actually have everything great on paper, but what they're saying they do versus what they do, or maybe very different. So where I see disconnects. So every, an accredited company has to be audited every three years, or assessed, reassessed every three years. And I have gone into the companies where
00:14:47
Speaker
Uh, they've had personnel changes or they've had kind of big shakeups and all of a sudden all that documentation that was supposed to be managed. Nobody's nobody took charge or the person that was doing it has left the company and it just all fell apart. Um, again, I'm not, I'm not there to scold them or write them a ticket. I'm there to say, okay, what do we need to do?
00:15:15
Speaker
to, you know, make to get things back on track. And if, if they're, you know, if they're very motivated, that's, you know, that's an easy conversation. And most of the I don't think I've ever run across a company that
00:15:34
Speaker
has kind of, let's call it backslid and didn't want to get back to the status that they were, you know, three years ago or, you know,
00:15:47
Speaker
Most of the companies that go through the accreditation audit, they don't need it to run their business. It is valuable if there are some contracts that require accreditation. But for the most part, it's a milestone that companies want
Accreditation's Impact on Culture and Profitability
00:16:11
Speaker
to achieve because it sets them apart from other companies.
00:16:16
Speaker
It also, I think it provides value because, again, it makes you more safe and just by default. And so your insurance, it should give you access to insurance that is more competitive. So I think that's the value that I see from an auditor's perspective.
00:16:46
Speaker
But if you're trying to connect the dots on a profit-loss statement, it's hard to give it its own line and say, oh, this is how much we gained because we're a credited company. It's hard to draw that line, but there's so many things that are interwoven into it. It produces a culture also in the company that
00:17:17
Speaker
That's something you really can't buy. Yeah. I like your last point about it being a culture. And I think if you look through the industry, there's a lot of companies that will do these type of things, the accreditation, the training, and they do a good job at it. But then you almost see other companies are the opposite, where they're just not doing hardly any of it. And I know they're probably not doing any of it because of cost. It's time consuming, it's expensive, and they don't see the value. But like you said,
00:17:45
Speaker
How do you put a value to that? How do you put a value to culture? How do you put a value to training? You know, did all of this lead to three less incidents or accidents that year? We don't know what could have been. So it's hard to put a value to it, but I do think there's a lot of people that do not do it because a lot of our stuff is, you know, lowest bid gets the work, but I would challenge a lot of you listening on the call.
00:18:09
Speaker
that there's probably a value to doing the accreditation, to doing the safety and that your company is getting the leg up and you're going to get the right type of clients. You're going to have the profit that you need because you're going to be a better company as a whole. Again, hard to put a value to it, but it's probably there.
00:18:29
Speaker
Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. You know, my hope is that, you know, promoting a culture of excellence and safety, that we inspire a whole new generation of arborists that prioritize, you know, those values in their work.
00:18:48
Speaker
And I know Travis is a, is a tech guy. So, so when I started doing audits, I would say most of the companies were all pencil and paper, you know, so all the documents were, you know, in a file. So they would look at the, one of the, one of the elements of an audit is to review employee files.
00:19:11
Speaker
So they'd bring out these stacks of employee file, right? And then I'd have to page through, find the documents I needed to look at. Now, the majority of the companies, a lot of it's cloud-based. Their onboarding is all done digitally. So I say, OK, show me where they signed off that they received the employee handbook. Boom.
00:19:37
Speaker
Show me where they've received the safety policy. Boom. You know, so I love that, that part. And that, again, that just speaks to what's changing in our industry and how
00:19:53
Speaker
We can embrace that, but not lose the human touch, if that makes any sense. It does. I want to go back to culture one second, because I had one more thought there. OK. That is something, so everybody's struggling with employee retention, getting new employees
Investing in Training and Attracting Quality Employees
00:20:13
Speaker
in. And I look at like, you know, you're talking about the accreditation, the good employees for the most part, the good climbers, the people that love, love, love this type of work in this industry.
00:20:23
Speaker
They want to work for that company that is accredited, that is doing the training, that is doing everything you mentioned. So if you're a business owner and you're like, man, I want these guys that Christopher's talking about, you got to do that type of stuff to attract that type of employee and retain them. Um, if your whole business model is we're going to be cheap, we're going to do it quick. We're going to get out of there. I'm okay with a little bit of employee turnover. Cause I don't really want to pay that much in labor costs. You're not going to get it or attract that type of employee period.
00:20:53
Speaker
You know, and I think we're a little bit in a culture now where we're starting to value the quality, the customer service, and the culture a little bit more. We went through several decades where we seemed to cheapen everything. You know, you go back to the early 1900s, we built beautiful buildings that are still around the day. 70s and 80s, we didn't really do a whole lot of that. Those were some kind of ugly buildings that we built. You know, the fast food stuff that came on scene in the same timeframe.
00:21:21
Speaker
your big box retailers, same timeframe. I think we're getting back to an era where people are going to want that human connection that you mentioned. They're going to want to work somewhere with the culture. They're going to want to work somewhere that people care and want to do better. So I would challenge some of the people listening. If you're on the fence of whether or not, hey, this stuff is worth it or it's not. Think back to what you want your business to be. If you want it to be the business that Christopher's describing, you got to do the work and do that type of stuff.
00:21:50
Speaker
If you're okay with what you're doing now and you're like what you're doing, then, you know, I guess keep doing that route. But anyway, just a little tangent. I was thinking about why you were talking there. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah. Um, it's the, uh, the,
00:22:08
Speaker
Well, retaining employees and training them. So things that TCIA is doing that is really great and I'm hoping to become more involved in it is the apprenticeship program. Those are super valuable.
00:22:29
Speaker
I wish I tried to get one started in the Dallas area because I think municipalities are a perfect Petri dish for training arborists. That's just my personal thought because and the reason being is because in a
00:22:50
Speaker
municipal setting, you don't have quotas, you aren't rushed, because I've told my guys that working in Dallas, I don't ever want anybody to say that they felt like they were rushed through a job.
Municipalities as Training Grounds
00:23:10
Speaker
Whatever we need to do to get it done and get it done safely, that's what we're going to do.
00:23:16
Speaker
Um, I know being in the industry though, that, um, the bottom line is, is real important. And, uh, sometimes that can be that pressure, uh, can fall on that crew leader. Hey, I gotta get, you know, I gotta get to this other job, I gotta get this other job done. Um, you know, or I'm not gonna, you know, kind of meet my bottom line or, um, so, um, but that training, uh, like I said, I want to be more involved in that, um, in the apprenticeship.
00:23:46
Speaker
training because I think that's where we are going to be able to connect the younger generation or the next generation of arborists to our industry. And not all of them have to go out and climb trees and drag brush. There are so many different avenues and aspects of arboriculture that that's a whole other podcast.
00:24:13
Speaker
What do you think of some of the newer equipment, like we're seeing now, the grapple saw trucks and, you know, there's been so much change there, like kind of the last five years, really. What do you think of some of that? I know whenever we went to Oak Bros last week, it was just watching the grapple saw truck and grabbing some video and content for him. And it's just, it's neat to watch, you know, that's something that was done by a climber not that long ago only, you know, and they're sitting there with a remote control and standing on the sidewalk and taking a tree out behind a house.
00:24:43
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it is that is that's our future. I mean, we're not going to get away from from, you know, climbers and tying knots. We still that is that's kind of our our history. And I love that. And that's why I love going to the Texas or tree climbing competitions. I say Texas because we just had Texas tree climbing comp was just last week.
00:25:13
Speaker
But yeah, watching those guys dance around in the trees is like a ballet. But I think you can say the same thing about the grapple saw operator operating those joysticks. It is also like a ballet, the way they dismantle a tree from the ground and just perfectly place all the parts
00:25:43
Speaker
done on the ground and either they run through a chipper or they load them up into a dumpster and haul it off. Yeah, I think it's neat watching the grapple saw trucks. One of the things we look at, Atlantic Corp, is removing people from the direct line of fire. So when you watch someone like in a grapple saw truck and they're setting it meticulously in a spot, then you have a guy in a mini skid and he's loading the chipper and you think,
00:26:12
Speaker
You know, all that stuff used to, at one point, just be done by hand only. And you do have an employee that direct line of fire. So it is kind of neat to see a lot of that risk being removed when possible. Like you said, there's always going to be a need for climbers, the knots, the roping, and all of that scent and the rigging. But it is kind of neat to see that shift a little bit to that technology or, you know, equipment. One thing I did have, tell us a little bit about Arbor Strong.
Arbor Strong and Industry Commitment
00:26:40
Speaker
You kind of started that, what, just this past year, right?
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah, well, I started it. I really let's say I put more energy into it just this past year when I knew once I knew that I was going to be leaving the city of Dallas in April, and that I was going to be relying on
00:27:04
Speaker
accreditation audits, training, all that pretty much self-employed. And I knew that I needed to kind of up my game. arboriststrong.com is just my way to put myself out there, show what training's available for hire. So that's
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's how that was birthed. We got access to that website years ago, but never really put anything into it. In fact, it sat in GoDaddy, I think it was, for years before. I kept telling my wife, I said, do we still have that? We didn't let that lapse, right? Because I don't want to need that name. I know someday I'm going to need that name, and here we are.
00:28:01
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah, we've got a few GoDaddy accounts that we have an auto pay that just they're cool URLs that we decided to buy them. So anyway, I totally get that. Travis, what questions do you have? So we're, we're discussing, I think on the last podcast that a lot of the podcasts, what, what we've seen as a common through line, whether it was deliberate or not, the topics always seem to come back to
Mentorship and Technology Integration
00:28:24
Speaker
culture. Um, and there's just so many things that tie back into culture, but, uh,
00:28:29
Speaker
I don't think we were intending on that being such a heavy piece of this one, but it naturally came back up. But one of those, one of the common things that comes up when we're talking about culture and just because there's so much, so many things changing is you're talking about the apprenticeship program. I mean, it's, it's essentially a mentorship, if you will. And we talked about mentoring and the importance of it and whether you deliberately call it mentorship and it's very structured mentorship or not. It's essentially,
00:28:58
Speaker
somebody that's walked in your shoes or walked down your path a little bit further ahead, coming back and lending themselves and their knowledge and expertise to help you advance faster, safer, better. And us giving back to the next generation or giving back to those who are starting off in the industry or about to come down the path. And that's such an important part of our society. And we've gotten away from that a lot.
00:29:26
Speaker
And I think we're starting to see maybe a resurgence of that. And there's definitely a hunger out there because there has been a vacuum of that mentorship and giving back to people and giving back of ourselves to people who are interested, whether it's the younger generation or just somebody that's showing a passion or interest in what you've already done. And such an important piece, but then the technology piece too, is whether it's a grapple saw truck or it's software or
00:29:56
Speaker
I love the documentation example. That's such a mundane, I guess, low hanging fruit as far as an innovation is to move your documentation online. And so it's trackable, editable, scalable in that you can searchable. I mean, there's so many benefits and it baffles me. It's just maybe.
00:30:19
Speaker
a fear factor, a fear of the unknown or apprehension about it that would prevent people. But as soon as they start to peel back their layers and look at some of this stuff, it's pretty logically straightforward as far as why you should be implementing these things. But a lot of that, and it's not innovating and adopting technology for change sake. I want change to change and it's cool or shiny. A lot of this stuff is
00:30:47
Speaker
increasing efficiencies. So if training or things that you're supposed to be doing that you know that you're supposed to be doing, but you just don't have the time for you don't have the crew for whatever your your perspective is why you're cutting those components out is where you see it's not for your business.
00:31:04
Speaker
you can gain efficiencies through that software or through that technology or improve safety that can now free that time up so that you can start adding those other components back that improves that culture or makes it a place where the hires and the staff that you want to attract, you want to be a part of your crew, want to be a part of. There's a Henry Ford quote, so training is one of those things
00:31:33
Speaker
that oftentimes gets looked at as a nice to have in that it would be training in general and safety sometimes getting thumped in there. We can do the job without it in that it would be really nice to have a robust training program or a robust safety program or these other auxiliary things that add to our organization. But bottom line is the bottom line and we got to go out there and crush the job.
Value of Training and Employee Development
00:31:58
Speaker
not realizing that those things enhance the operational efficiency, and there's consequences for not putting those things in there. But Henry Ford was quoted, and there's different variations of it. But apparently his management staff came in, and they were all talking about new training and training their staff to this new technologies and assembly lines and things. And the question that was posed to him was, what if we train them and they leave?
00:32:22
Speaker
And there was fear was we were going to train these people and then they're going to take all the money and time and effort that we poured into them. And then they're going to leave and go to the competition. And his response was something along the lines. What if we train them and they, therefore, what if we don't train them and they stay? There you go. That's yeah. The biggest compliment that I can receive as a manager is if my, the people under me move on to something greater. I,
00:32:48
Speaker
I don't ever, I would never hold anybody back if that's what they want to do. But I think when you build this culture and that money does not become the key decision maker. When I have a culture, a company, I've audited companies before and I go,
00:33:14
Speaker
If I wasn't doing something else, I would come apply for this, for a job with you. I mean, that's what you walk in. Um, so, and, and I apologize if I'm kind of getting off script, but, um, but I want, so when I would, I always start audits out first thing in the morning, I want to watch the crews load out.
Audit Process and Observing Company Culture
00:33:34
Speaker
So I want to watch them do their daily checks. I want to see what I want to see how to communicate. I don't talk. I just walk around and I observe.
00:33:43
Speaker
That's how I start my audits out. And I can tell just by that interaction and who interacts with me. Sometimes I'll go into a company and they're like, you would think I had leprosy and they just don't want to even come close to me. Other ones?
00:34:03
Speaker
man, they just come up to me and, oh, do you need, you know, need coffee? What do you need? Just, again, I'm kind of gauging what the atmosphere is like. And that is, that's how I love to start out my audits. Because that just says a lot about their company. And again,
00:34:23
Speaker
I don't think money is the key thing that they're looking at. Those employees that are invested in that company, they're invested not because you are paying them the most in the industry. They're invested because they're getting something there that they can't find anywhere else, whether that's family, training,
00:34:48
Speaker
But it's a form of marketing. So we're always striving in the marketing game for word of mouth because it's so much more impactful. If somebody you know and you trust recommends something, there's a much higher probability that you're going to engage with whatever that is. And so if those crews and the people that are working for you love what they do, love working for you, it is a word of mouth. You think they're not going to go tell their friends, hey,
00:35:17
Speaker
You need a job with somebody who they respect and that they want to work with. This may be similar to them and have the same values because that's typically who they would want to be around all day. They're going to go market for you in the sense of getting the right applicants in the cruise and bringing people onto the cruise. But then at the same time, if they love who they're working with, trust it, it's family. They know it's a good group of people.
00:35:43
Speaker
they're naturally going to talk about that in their social circles, whether it's social media, direct contact with people, they're going to be constantly marketing for you. And it's such an important and such a valuable one because we're always looking for that, but it's really tough to achieve. So doing things right, creating the right environment and the culture, uh, your organization definitely has auxiliary impact as far as getting more business. And it does affect the bottom line because the opposite is true too. We're all,
00:36:12
Speaker
creatures that as humans, we don't necessarily promote the things that are good as much as we do the bad. And we see that evident everywhere. So if you have a bad experience, you probably go tell the first 10 people you see and people that don't even ask for it. You had a bad experience at a restaurant or something, but you had a good experience, you may or may not, most often you're not telling people about it.
00:36:36
Speaker
That's going to be the same thing if they're working for your company and you cut corners. They know that there's some toxicity in there or there's some rot. It's going to affect them. They're going to know about it, even if you're trying to hide it. And that will come out whether they don't promote it in a conversation where somebody's looking for your services. Like, yeah, I don't want to risk my reputation by promoting the company I work for. It's not a good, or they'll flat out go tell somebody
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't use ours. There's this other company over here that does things a little bit better, takes care of the people, whatever app. So it will come back and it does have very real implications to do things right, create the right culture and take care of your people, do
Influence of Culture on Reputation and Marketing
00:37:24
Speaker
the right things. It will have multiple ways, a direct impact on the bottom line.
00:37:30
Speaker
Absolutely. Oh, I agree. Travis, say that Henry Ford quote one more time. I think that's a very good summary of things. So there's a slightly different variations with a lot of quotes out there. So it was Henry Ford's management team is the one that I'm most familiar with came to him. And so their fear was that there was a lot of talk about training and training their staff. And there was a lot of changes happening in the industry. And the fear was they were going to invest because it wasn't cheap.
00:37:59
Speaker
And there was new competition coming in line adjacent to Henry Ford. And so the management staff was fearful that if we train these people, they're basically just, we're going to pour money and time and effort into them. And then essentially they're going to take that and then go work for the competition. So we should hold off and not do it. And his response was, what if we don't train them and they stay?
00:38:22
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that is perfect. That's like a tie-in of all of this because I think, you know, a lot of people, because it is expensive to onboard an employee, to keep them, to train them, to do all that stuff, but it is extremely expensive to keep one that doesn't know what they're doing or they mess up or they cost, you know, an instant or just a bunch of customers repeat business, you know, or bad word of mouth. So, you know, I think enough people don't pay enough attention to those things. They think, Oh, I can save a little money here or there.
00:38:51
Speaker
Well, actually, you're not really saving money probably long-term. So you're actually costing your reputation. Your reputation is everything. Any final thoughts, guys? Christopher, anything you haven't said that you think you
Technology Shift and Knowledge Retention
00:39:02
Speaker
should impart? I love this podcast and love talking to guys like yourself that have been in the industry for a long time and have a ton of knowledge under their belt and willing to share it.
00:39:12
Speaker
Um, yeah, no, I mean, just, uh, I think we touch in on technology and, and, uh, you know, one of the things that's kind of driving that, those grapple trucks, the, the, um, you know, because we can have smaller crews, but also just look at the statistics on, um, the, there's still a lot of older, uh,
00:39:36
Speaker
wise gentlemen like myself that are in the industry. And so that older workforce has required that we need to work smarter rather than harder. My hope for the future is though that we keep these very knowledgeable men and women around so that we can
00:40:04
Speaker
instill that passion that, um, you know, for trees and, um, to a next generation and that moving forward, uh, again, we'll still use the, the technology is here to stay. It's, um, it's only increasing and I'm looking forward to, you know, what, uh, I can't wait to see, um, the, um, uh, virtual reality training.
00:40:32
Speaker
of Travis and I have talked about that. I think aerial rescue first aid CPR responded to like a life threatening bleed, putting that into a virtual reality setting. I mean, I'm just I can see because I've seen my my younger boys play, you know, and on it and I'm like, and so while they're playing, I'm thinking, Oh, we could do that. And that's so valuable because
00:41:04
Speaker
there's a phrase that I use in my safety training is that the mind or the body can't go where the mind has not first been.
Virtual Reality in Safety Training
00:41:14
Speaker
So what that's saying is pretty much we have to talk about these situations that we don't want to be in. Things like, you know, coming in contact with a electrical conductor and what
00:41:29
Speaker
the consequences of that are getting cut by a chainsaw. So exposing, it's hard to expose that in a classroom setting or even the just, you know, PowerPoint pictures. No, I think when you were talking, it made me think, you know, when people think of skilled trades, people do not often think of, you know, the tree climbing, the tree industry as much.
00:41:53
Speaker
But really, it is a skilled trade and it needs to be a promotion, I think, within the industry that this is actually a craft. You know, people talk about craftsmen, you know, and a lot of craftsmen will have pride in whatever it is they're doing. You know, you think of watchmaking, you know, the old school shoemaking, whatever it is, those are all crafts.
00:42:10
Speaker
This is technically a craft. I think rewarding it and getting the younger generation to realize this is actually a skill trait. It actually is a craft. Be proud of it, take pride in it and keep pushing yourself to do better at it. So anyway, just thinking that while you were kind of describing, you know, your, your, your mindset of it and that's what it is. You're, you view it as a craft and that's awesome. Absolutely. And here I got to highlight this word on my, on my shirt.
00:42:37
Speaker
Sytherism is the sound that the wind makes going through trees. I got this actually from a tree company. Again, one of these tree companies that if I were a younger man, I'd probably go work for them. But they love what they do so much. They had these shirts printed for their employees. I was honored that they gave one to me.
00:43:06
Speaker
That's the kind of culture that I see a lot, especially in accredited companies.
00:43:14
Speaker
No, that's awesome. I was wondering what that, what that word on your shirt was the whole podcast. I'm like, do I bring it up or is it maybe an inappropriate word? I wasn't sure. And you're almost afraid to ask. So if you Google it, they'll, it says, I think on Google, it says it's a obsolete word. Um, but, uh, I was, so I wear it every chance I get.
00:43:38
Speaker
It came about, remember when we first started doing, during COVID, you know, everything went virtual. And so you'd have to do like icebreakers to get everybody comfortable with talking on videos.
00:43:52
Speaker
Well, you know, they would, uh, one of them was, you know, you know, what's, uh, you know, what's your favorite word or I think something like, and, and so I like that's, this was my favorite word. I love it. I love it. Well, gentlemen, it has been a pleasure. Christopher, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been, uh, awesome to hear and gain some, you know, nuggets of wisdom from you. Travis, pleasure as always. Those of you listening, if you like the podcast, please share it. If you don't.
00:44:21
Speaker
hit that off button. Thank you guys.