Transcript
Alexis : Hello and happy hot, humid day. If you're listening to this on the day and day of release, I'm sure it's hot and humid because we are in Kentucky and it feels like it's never going to, yeah, it's never going to end.
Plant People: Summer in Kentucky.
Alexis : um Just the sweat doesn't stop. Can't stop, won't stop. But anyways, how's everybody feeling today?
Brett: But I mean, it's sort of a philosophical question of where does the sweat end and the humidity begin?
Alexis : We're an extension, so we're just always sweating.
Brett: It's like, it's a gradient.
Plant People: It's...
Alexis : We're just always working for the people.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : just who we are.
Jessica : It is. It is the season because you like don't ever know what you're going to be doing. Like we put up a tent for a livestock show the other day. Right. i mean, that was a very.
Alexis : Welcome to horticulture.
Plant People: You just never know.
Jessica : Yeah. And it's like.
Plant People: i like to call it the season where in extension, you're in the air conditioning just enough to mess up your acclimation to the heat and humidity. So there's no getting used to any one situation in extension because you're in all the situations in extension this time of year.
Plant People: You're in and out and everywhere in between.
Alexis : Yeah.
Jessica : Right? you might need a sweater.
Alexis : Especially if you're a greenhouse and controlled environment person like our guest is today.
Plant People: Yeah, you might need a sweater.
Alexis : So today we've got on Dr. Ching-Loo Ying, who's in our horticulture department at UK. And so she's just down the hall from me. So Ching-Loo, how is ah your air conditioning versus humidity heat going?
Qinglu: ah Yeah, hello everyone. um it's In my office, it's pretty good, but we did a lot of site visits as part of our extension outreach. And we've seen we're trying to promote our environmental sensor, actually.
Qinglu: And we've seen some like 80%, 90%, or even 100% rating of relative humidity in some of the greenhouses in Kentucky.
Jessica : wow
Plant People: So normal Kentucky weather, in other words, yeah, no.
Alexis : And it's like, right.
Plant People: o
Alexis : You're like, here's ah your temperature sensors. They're going to tell you that it's too hot and good luck with that. and
Brett: and it's 100 humidity it's like where do the tears end and the humidity begin for me at least i'm crying i'm sweating i just there's just i just mo i am i am become moisture uh
Qinglu: Exactly.
Plant People: Yes, the pain is always there.
Alexis : yeah
Plant People: It is.
Plant People: That's a good thing about sweating that much bread is you can't tell that you're crying. So it sort of covers up the fact it's just all cascading down your face.
Brett: yeah that's right that's right is that sweat in my eyes or tears out of my eyes
Jessica : It hides the tears.
Plant People: Yes. Yes. You are a sponge quickly losing.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah. I'm not a huge fan of the sweat mustache that forms though, personally, because I don't have, you know, the upper, yeah, it's just like constantly wiping and then if your hands have got potting soil on them, like you get it everywhere.
Plant People: Oh, that's nice. You have a nice mustachio. Is that what we're like?
Alexis : yeah then I have an actual mustache.
Jessica : But you also
Plant People: A cocoa mustache. Nice. Nice.
Jessica : I taught the interns a trick this year when we did fair setup. I told them the day before, I was like, okay, i'm going to wear tie-dye tomorrow. And they were like, tie-dye? And I was like, yeah, you won't see the sweat.
Jessica : And they were like, what? And as soon as we did all these tents outside, moved moved fences, moved all this stuff, and people were like sweating through their shirts. Your tie-dye shirt always hides you. Alexis taught me that. um Wear a tie-dye shirt and you won't show the sweat. Yeah.
Plant People: tie-dye for the win
Alexis : As you know what, as you should, as you should, potting soil tie-dye.
Brett: Yeah. I'm just, Oh,
Alexis : That's what we're doing.
Plant People: I like to call this rage season we're in because ah the rage hits me when the sweat runs freely into my eyes. And then if my hands are busy doing something, that is when my temperament starts to plummet as the temperature goes up.
Jessica : Oh, yeah.
Alexis : The good sting you get.
Plant People: as when i'm all I'm usually all good until the sweat hits the eyes. I'm done. I'm done. Yeah.
Alexis : Well, we've got ah two glasses wearers here as well. So you all probably have a lot of fun in the humidity.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : Just
Brett: And I'm bald, aka this mountain no longer has crops to prevent runoff of sweat.
Plant People: No erosion abatement program.
Brett: Just, just you don't, you don't realize it's just straight.
Jessica : you
Brett: It's an impervious surface. It's basically asphalt, just sweat right into the eyeballs.
Alexis : just waterfall
Plant People: That could be a benefit, Brett. You have more evaporative cooling surface. Let's look on the broad side. Yes.
Brett: No, I will. I will not because it it hurts my eyes and, ah
Plant People: ah
Alexis : I like these little like greenhouse bits we're throwing in here. Evaporative cooling, you know we're just talking about this.
Plant People: yes
Alexis : um And, you know, it's not because we have the controlled environment specialist on. that That's a normal thing we would say. so
Plant People: We would normally talk a lot about sweat regardless.
Brett: Yeah, we've we've been in waiting to get this off our chest for a while.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. Summer in Kentucky.
Alexis : We've been looking for someone who would really appreciate Ching Lu. So thank you for joining us today our for our greenhouse bids.
Qinglu: Yes.
Alexis : Well, let's talk a little bit more about you because I am very excited because you're doing some really cool things and I get to hear more about them today. so But tell us a little bit about you and how did you get into horticulture?
Qinglu: So that's good. um So I am an assistant professor and extension specialist at UK from Department of Horticulture. I focus primarily on controlled environment agriculture, which is called CEA, which includes greenhouse and indoor production. And I'm helping growers to use science and technologies to improve crop production.
Qinglu: ah production And I actually grew up in Beijing, China, which is a city of more than 20 million people, I think. And growing up, I didn't have much exposures to agriculture because there were literally no farmland around me. And that actually made me very curious about how plants are grown, how like where does all the food come from? And the curiosity eventually led me to horticulture and plant size. um I became fascinated of how we can optimize the growing environments to improve the plant growth, improve the crop productivity. So um I went to get my master's and PhD degrees from University of Guelph in Canada, and then I moved to Kentucky almost two years ago.
Alexis : Awesome. That's so cool. that Yeah, it's funny how...
Brett: What's the, oh, sorry.
Alexis : Go ahead, Brett.
Brett: I had a very, ah what what's the weather like in Guelph or where where you did that? What's what's the situation up there?
Qinglu: I think it's a little bit cooler in the summer, but I'm actually not too sure with like nowadays, everything seems to be changing lot.
Alexis : Okay.
Qinglu: I think They're also getting pretty hot weathers up in Canada too.
Brett: Hmm.
Brett: Hmm.
Qinglu: But the winter is definitely longer
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. Much farther north.
Brett: little more snow.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : But a greenhouse is a nice place to be, though, in the winter.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : yeah
Qinglu: Yeah, exactly.
Brett: Sorry to step on your toes there, Alexis.
Alexis : No, it's cool. I'm just, um I love hearing how people get like excited about plants because, you know, like I'll use Jessica as an example, but it could be me too. Like, you know, she grew up on a farm. So, you know, being around plants and animals was very like normal thing. And she, so she kind of like,
Alexis : followed that path. i so Sorry, I'm talking about you, Jessica, while you're sitting right here. But then see like the exact flip opposite of like not, you know, having that exposure and just having that like general curiosity of like, wait a minute, where does this come from?
Jessica : You can do that.
Alexis : That's, that's super cool in that situation. Yeah, sure. Anyways, cool. So what drew you to Kentucky? Why are you here from Canada?
Qinglu: Well, there an open position, but certainly...
Plant People: Boway of Canada.
Jessica : Okay.
Qinglu: What really attracted me was the opportunity. I think Kentucky has one of the fastest growing CEA industry in the country.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: A lot of people heard of Kentucky greenhouse industry because of AppHarvest, which was um a company who built a few of the really high-tech greenhouses a few years ago.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: While the company itself didn't succeed, it puts Kentucky at least on the map for greenhouse production. And those large greenhouse facilities are still in operation growing fruits and vegetables year round.
Qinglu: But I think more importantly, there's also a growing community of small size to mid-size greenhouse growers across the states. um So I think there's a lot of opportunities to help build the industry through applied research and extension. um And I think that's why i um really enjoy what I'm doing now.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: that's a You said something that was interesting. is You mentioned two different sizes there. One, fairly large size scale. And when I think of app harvest, I think of big, large, modern operations. But I know a lot of producers in Kentucky are smaller in scale. Do you work on both ends of the spectrum as far as with big and small producers in Kentucky ah currently?
Qinglu: Yeah, I worked with the full spectrum of CEA growers, and they are facing different challenges, obviously.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah, I mean, it's crazy because I've, you know, talked with some, you know, folks that are transitioning, let's say, from an unheated, a true high tunnel. and they're wanting to a little bit more control over temperature or ventilation or whatnot, so they're kind of stepping up.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: But, yeah, they look at themselves differently, and sometimes I guess it's daunting to them to get into all of the control systems and a little bit you know ah more technology involved, and you know sometimes supplemental lighting, sometimes not but Yeah, so it is a little bit different when you work with producers around the state, I guess, then. Different attitudes, probably different challenges for each group, I guess.
Qinglu: Exactly. Like the small size, mean size growers, there most of them are capital limited. They don't have unlimited investment to put in technologies, but they have to choose the appropriate technology that can build their production system step by step to achieve their goals.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jessica : Thank you.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: And I think that's one of the interesting thing is to help them to choose the appropriate technology that works for them, not promoting all the things all at once. It's like we're trying to build a stepping stone model to help growers in that way.
Plant People: Yeah, it seems like, ah and I'm but originally from the eastern part of the state, and this is dangerous.
Brett: So,
Plant People: I'm recalling something from memory live on air. This is very dangerous. It seems like you were working with some ah technology transfer type issues in the eastern part of the state state for smaller growers.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: Am I remembering that correctly, or you were doing a series or something to adapt some technologies maybe in the realm of for smaller growers specifically, it seems like. I'm trying to recall, it's been a while back since I looked at something.
Brett: This is the tobacco float bed conversion
Plant People: ah It could have been Brett. I'm just yeah pulling that you know out of the memory banks, which is probably not real accurate at this point.
Alexis : she's
Plant People: But it kind of got me interested because i'm ah I've always been interested in the subject, first of all, you know kind of protected ag or controlled ag.
Qinglu: Yeah, we do have ah a project with ARC um currently just promoting the CEA to control environmental agriculture production in Eastern Kentucky specifically.
Plant People: Okay.
Qinglu: it was um I think it's a three-year project. and
Plant People: Okay.
Qinglu: By doing that, we're just like doing the one-on-one technical support mostly for the growers as well as developing some resources for them that can work for different production systems.
Plant People: Oh, gotcha.
Plant People: m
Qinglu: But we do see a lot of flow baths that were um the old tobacco greenhouse and now tobacco production kind of moving away, growers are looking for opportunities to grow other crops in in their flow bath systems.
Plant People: Oh, yeah.
Plant People: Gotcha. Yeah.
Brett: do you So you were you were talking about scale and scope of operations and scale and scope is one of my favorite things to think and talk about.
Jessica : So, wait.
Qinglu: Mm-hmm.
Brett: But ah
Brett: with systems like this, i would describe them as very intensive systems.
Alexis : you
Brett: um the The idea of ah of a big farm and a small farm or a bigger operation in a smaller operation is very different, even from like other horticulture operations. You know, an acre under plastic is very different from an acre of corn and soybeans, but also just different from an acre of tomatoes. can you like what For you, what constitutes coming from Canada and then also the United States now too and in Kentucky, what constitutes like the the ballpark like brackets of a large operation versus a medium operation versus a small operation?
Brett: like what What size is that even?
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: Yep, so for small size growers, I'm mostly talking about standalone greenhouse. It could be a high tunnel with certain like fans, heaters and other things building up.
Qinglu: So it's mostly like a 30 by 100 or 30 by 150 feet, pretty standard operation. I think those are considered small size growers.
Qinglu: And for mid-size, it could be multiple greenhouses, is whether they are gutter connected or they're individual greenhouses. And some growers may also have field production or other things going on, all the way even to like a few acres.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: But for all the large scale production, mainly talking about most of the greenhouses are the Dutch Vanlo style greenhouse. They are taller than what you would see on um traditional or small scale growers.
Alexis : Mm.
Qinglu: But um yeah, like anywhere from 15 to 60 acres is the the sizes of the greenhouses that we commonly see in Kentucky with respect to large scale production.
Alexis : Mm.
Qinglu: And they use all the technologies. They're trying to control the environment as much as they can when it comes to heating, lighting, cooling, um and other things like irrigation and fertigation.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : It's wild.
Brett: Wow.
Jessica : I wanted to ask about like the crops and stuff that you encounter with it.
Alexis : wild
Jessica : So in your position, someone might be looking at it as saying like, oh, she must cover just like vegetable production. But I'm sure you also do floriculture and all sorts of things across the board.
Jessica : Has there been any like really in your time in this position, like really unique ah crops or products that you have been seeing going in some of these greenhouses? Yeah.
Qinglu: yeah Yeah, so um if you're thinking about traditional greenhouse crops, we're mostly talking about all vine crops like tomato, cucumber, peppers, lettuce is a popular one because it has short growing cycles, plus all the ornamentals that are grown in pots.
Alexis : Mm.
Qinglu: um I think that's like basically all the traditional greenhouse crops. but In recent and years, there are increasing interest in growing berries in greenhouses, including strawberries.
Alexis : Mm.
Qinglu: we actually have a 30-acre, I believe, high-tech greenhouse that is currently growing strawberries in Somerset, Kentucky. And there are smaller growers that are also interested in growing, for example, raspberries or blackberries in soil-less systems.
Alexis : The soil is systems, yeah, that's that's crazy to think about because you know, we just always think about them as these, you know, outdoor and they grow rampant usually for for most people when you put them out there. So then to imagine them um in that type of system, I mean, you'd have to be getting quite a premium on that, right? To...
Qinglu: Yeah.
Alexis : when you compare it to relatively, relatively easy production outside, you'd have to be getting quite a premium to be able to grow them indoors to make that make sense.
Qinglu: Exactly, yeah, because setting up those systems, there are a lot of different soilless systems, like the solid base you grow in a grow bag or a Dutch pocket with soil substrate, or you go with completely like liquid base, like the flow bed system or the nutrient film technique system.
Alexis : Sure.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: There are different options, but regardless, there is capital investment that goes into that to set everything up before you can start production.
Jessica : That makes sense with the, oh I was going to say it makes sense with the strawberry production and can be like a real benefit since a lot of strawberry producers are currently dealing with, I can't think of a strawberry disease right now, but the one that's kind of, mu pi yeah, that's like getting really detrimental to some of the traditional production of strawberries.
Plant People: Sometimes we, oh yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brett: Neo-pest.
Alexis : Yeah.
Jessica : and
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Jessica : So that's a good alternative.
Alexis : I bet you could control like spotted wing in a greenhouse, spotted wing drosophila for brambles.
Jessica : i bet you could, yeah.
Alexis : A lot easier too.
Qinglu: True.
Alexis : to
Plant People: Yeah, it's um when you said soilless and sometimes ah during meetings, you know, i take for granted when we say soilless and move on, they think we're we're talking exclusively about water.
Plant People: But that's not necessarily the case because there's all this soilless media that's everything from peat moss to cocoa fiber whatever.
Qinglu: Yep.
Alexis : Hmm.
Plant People: So do you work a lot in that area and by soilless media, not just water, but um anything you ran into there that's looking promising for the future?
Plant People: That's on, it seems like that's on every grower's mind that I work with both inside and inside, outside and inside of greenhouses is the media.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: It's getting so expensive, you know, ah traditional peat based mixes. So that is like one of the top questions people always want to know about um across the board.
Qinglu: Yeah, yeah, I have some experience. um i have working I've worked with a few different types of media. Like you said, the traditional peat-based substrate is considered unsustainable substrate materials in the first place because it's harvested from the peat land, which is considered a really um a good um carbon storage in in the world.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : Wow. Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: Although it's only like about 3% of the Earth's land surface, I think it stores one third of the total carbon um in the world. So it's um harvesting the peat from the peat land is not considered environmental friendly in the first place.
Qinglu: Plus all the supply chain issues and harvest issue with changing climate, making it more and more expensive. I know some growers have to order or even store their substrate ah year ahead to make sure they have enough supply for the next growing season.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah.
Qinglu: So there are a lot of interest in exploring other substrate materials that can be good in both physical and chemical parts.
Qinglu: properties. um one I think there are a few options. Cocoa coir is another one that growers are interested in, especially for berry production because that somehow got recommended by a lot of the consultants that the cocoa coir is good for berry production.
Qinglu: And also wood fiber and wood bark are
Alexis : Mhm.
Qinglu: getting increasingly interest from the grower as well as from the rich research side. There are some scientists that are specifically looking into um this type of up substrate.
Alexis : I think when, ah Brett, correct me if you remember, but when we were had some meetings when there were some ah all the tariffs, and so of course, you know all this media coming in was high tariffs, a lot, I don't want to say a lot, but a couple of the greenhouse growers we were talking to in this sort of roundtable discussion were talking about the wood product and so like so they had been subbing out. I forget. Was it yellow poplar or a pine? Maybe I forget what kind it was, but they were subbing that out for Pete.
Brett: I think they were, yeah, they were interested in exploring it.
Qinglu: Yeah.
Brett: Ching Lu can talk about it more than I can. I do remember that meeting.
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: You are correct. You did not hallucinate that meeting.
Alexis : I did not hallucinate that.
Brett: We'll just put it that way.
Plant People: You did not make it up on the spot.
Alexis : I couldn't, you know, i could, my dreams get real weird sometimes.
Brett: Yeah. Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : so
Plant People: They become reality.
Alexis : And like ah rice hulls and just like the mix that they're creating is.
Qinglu: Rice balls.
Brett: Yeah, well, i'm I'm curious kind of what you're seeing as some of these emergent, because because the the the basic thing is a lot of the media that we've had is either unsustainably produced or it's coming from a long distance away.
Plant People: Yeah. The trends.
Brett: you know Coconuts aren't necessarily grown in Kentucky. And so coconut coir fiber is not necessarily sustainable in the long term. But we do have trees and there's not there's rice that's grown not that far away.
Brett: So maybe are there other like media?
Alexis : Hmm.
Brett: like what's What's that space like of alternative new media? Yeah.
Qinglu: Yeah, I think wood bark, which is the larger part most um of the components and wood fiber, which just which are the finer materials of substrate components, they are probably the most popular right now as far as trying to replace
Alexis : Hmm. Hmm.
Qinglu: pete But from some from what I read, um the wood fiber cannot exceed a certain percentage, normally like 20% to 50%, otherwise it might hold the the nitrogen in the substrate and will not be available to plants.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Alexis : Hmm.
Qinglu: So you have to mix it at least with a small amount of peat or other components, plus other things like perlite, vermiculite and other things.
Alexis : is Yeah, because there's this – I always think of it from like a physical standpoint, right?
Brett: to
Alexis : When you think about the pieces of soilless media, your perlite, vermiculite, peat, like each of them have ah physical component, but there's so much of a um you know an EC and salt and then to your point of like – Is it holding the nutrients captive and and that I think people forget about, I forget about, um you know, sometimes as I'm like, well, does it drain?
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Well, can the roots get through? is there airflow, which obviously is also needed. But then there's this whole other kind of chemical side that I think is forgotten about and probably where people have the most trouble because it is forgotten about.
Qinglu: Yeah.
Brett: So is that, is that, can I just ask, is that like similar to when you would, would um terminate a cover crop and you lay it down and for a while it will, it's almost like composting in place. And so the material of that will, will bind up the nitrogen and not allow it to be accessible to the plants. Is that what's going on with the, and the wood fibers more like lignus and.
Qinglu: Exactly. yeah It has to be a certain carbon to nitrogen ratio to make sure the nutrients are available to plants.
Brett: So if you want to grow your plants for like two years in the pot, then maybe that's ah that's one thing. But in most of the time, these cycles, we want the plant to kind you know turn over pretty quick. And so if it's just binding up your your nitrogen, you're just wasting. Huh. Yeah, I never thought about that. That's really interesting.
Alexis : Brett is very into bonsai, so he he's a media guy as well, but different different medias, yeah.
Plant People: There's so much to the media. Yeah.
Qinglu: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And at least if growers are aware of this, they can adjust their fertigation regimes by adding more nitrogen into soluble solution might help with this, but they need to know what their substrate looks like and how to work with a specific substrate.
Alexis : Hmm.
Jessica : Thank you.
Brett: So on the, on the, well, it's on the, on the, that grower, that grower, you know, adjustments and sort of different tolerances for technology and things like that.
Plant People: We have a, I was just going to go ahead, Brent.
Brett: um curious in your, you know, interacting with people here and, you know, through the extension position and along with the other experience, do, Do you feel like there's particular, like, what do you view as the particular opportunities or particular challenges that you see a lot of the growers here on that stepping stone path?
Brett: and know You know, you mentioned capital availability and that's that's a problem for a lot of operations, but is there any sort of like ah even approaches to using greenhouses or understandings of how greenhouses can be used or managed that you see that you know you see opportunities for expansion or education?
Alexis : but
Qinglu: Yeah, I think the biggest challenge for if there are new growers is that the the greenhouse is now simply a field production and there are roof.
Qinglu: There are different things that are very different compared to field production. that
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: The environment is completely different. Understanding and managing, for example, temperature, relative humidity, lighting, and irrigations require a different mindset and skill sets, I think.
Qinglu: And this is definitely a learning curve for a lot of them. I heard some really new growers who got their high tunnels were greenhouse set up the first year, and they're very excited.
Qinglu: They plant a whole bunch of tomato plants in there. and they ended up frying all their tomato plants because they don't know how hot they can get in that system with the cover and everything.
Plant People: Hmm.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: You have to know when to open up the side curtains, the ventilations, put on shade curtains, like all those things to manage manage their growing environments properly to make sure they have a successful growing season.
Qinglu: um And then for the more experienced grower, I think the biggest challenge is balancing the increasing production input versus their productivity.
Qinglu: um Things are getting more more expensive, the growing substrate of fertilizers and the energy costs, et cetera.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: And how to basically balance the the input with the yield they're getting is is the biggest challenge. But I think there are a lot of opportunities. There are growing demands for locally grown fresh fruits and vegetables.
Qinglu: People are looking for, especially out of season fruit and vegetables in Kentucky. And I think the small scale growers means the scale growers could definitely fit a lot of the gap with the local demand.
Plant People: You mentioned lighting. I've been curious about that, too.
Jessica : Thank
Plant People: I've worked with growers and they try to grow up tomatoes, let's say, for instance, in the middle of they said, well, we've got our high tunnel and it's warm in there, but they just don't produce a marketable crop.
Plant People: um What's going on in the world of lighting? Because I know i can think 20 years ago. ah You know, we were all filament-based bulbs or high-intensity discharge bulbs and all of this, but now it seems like, you know, there's much more energy-efficient options with, you know, LEDs on and so forth.
Plant People: But what's going on there? I mean, what are what are you seeing?
Qinglu: Yeah, there are actually a lot of advancements in terms of supplemental lightings for greenhouse production. Like you mentioned, I think the high pressure sodium lye was the like two goal lye for supplemental lye for greenhouse production probably 10 to 20 years ago.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Qinglu: And recently with the advancement of horticulture LED lye, growers are slowly adopting the lighting technologies for that production.
Qinglu: And um because of the horticulture LED lye, growers are able to dim their lights to achieve the goals.
Qinglu: For example, if it's really sunny outside one day, they can dim the lights down a little bit to like 10 to 20%.
Alexis : Hmm.
Qinglu: And if it's very, very dark outside, then they can just put it at 100% output as well as the spectrum, some light fixtures, the light spectrum is adjustable.
Qinglu: um because plants use red and blue light most efficiently as compared to other wavelengths, other colors of light. um So some LED lights, that's the reason some LED lights look purple, it's just a pure combination of red and blue lights.
Jessica : Thank you.
Qinglu: Versus some LED lights here are white, which is the green wavelengths mixed in that, so it looks a little bit whiter as compared to the pure red and blue LED lights.
Alexis : Thank you.
Qinglu: So there there are a lot of research going on. looking at different crops responded to light intensity and light spectrum, trying to identify the optimal intensity and spectral combination to grow specific crops, both in a greenhouse as well as indoor facilities where there is no ambient light available.
Plant People: And it's interesting that it actually ah impacts the plant, it seems like, has a potential on a deeper level, and that's pretty interesting, some of the work you're involved with.
Qinglu: Yeah.
Plant People: That that was kind of Yeah.
Qinglu: Uh-huh. Like the plant growth, the plant architectures are affected by the changing in light environments.
Plant People: yeah
Qinglu: the um Obviously the fresh weight, the yield is going to be affected. And more importantly, some of the nutritional contents of the plants are also affected by different wavelengths of lights.
Qinglu: I actually did my whole PhD on lighting, just micrograys under different different lights, different spectral combinations of lights.
Brett: oh wow
Alexis : yeah
Brett: that's awesome
Alexis : I'm so cool.
Qinglu: And I found that using the shorter wavelengths, like the blue wavelengths can actually promote some of the secondary metabolites of plants. For example, enzylcyanase, total phenolic compounds, those are health promoting um compounds that are really good for our human health and adjusting the light spectrum can actually affect or promote those contents, which is pretty cool.
Brett: Whoa, that's really cool.
Plant People: Very cool.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah, it's super cool.
Jessica : Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: I know.
Alexis : just blew all of our minds.
Plant People: yeah it's good stuff.
Brett: Yeah, this is this is like a perfect audience for this to just be like, whoa, like we're we're in.
Plant People: We're going to go out there and bombard our plants with blue spectrum light now.
Alexis : I know. We're going to be like, it's for the Anthocyanians, people.
Plant People: We're going to have frankenplants growing because we've learned something today. We're going to be like, we're going to try this.
Brett: Are the.
Plant People: Yes. Yeah.
Brett: Are those are those lights good for like Instagram pictures for like generating a following for Instagram or no or.
Plant People: Yeah.
Qinglu: Probably not. If you work in an indoor facility with just LED lights, red and blue combinations, when you get out of that facility, everything looks like green, like everything is green because it's missing there.
Brett: Mmm.
Plant People: Oh.
Qinglu: It's not a very friendly environment to work in for a standard period of time.
Plant People: ah Yeah. the
Alexis : I remember, yeah, I remember the one of the greenhouses on campus had the red and blue LEDs.
Jessica : Unless you're a plant.
Alexis : And when they were real low, like, and you would walk by when they were low, you didn't notice it too much, right Because they were close to the plate. But when they raised them higher, you just even on the outside, it was like assaulting. So I can imagine if you were in a whole greenhouse full of those, how like weird that would mess with you.
Qinglu: Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah.
Qinglu: Exactly.
Alexis : Oh, yeah, that's wild. Well, and I'm going to do a shameless little plug here. We are going to continue to talk about all these cool things. But it for you listeners, if you are interested in, you know, media, maybe mixing your own media or just sort of the – You know, pros pros and cons to it. You know, how do you tell if this media is working for you, as well as some of these tools and that Dr. Ying was talking about? You know, how do i measure you know my humidity? How do I know that I've got a good growing space if you're growing your own seedlings or plants?
Alexis : you know, transplants or something like that, we will have Dr. Ying as well as ah ah her team at our field day, and that's in Lexington, Kentucky. It's Appropriate Tools and Technologies Field Day. So if you're interested in that, anything from seeding to transplanting, all that in between, and want to hear from the experts who can actually help you, that field day is on August 25th. And when this episode is released, there will still be time for you to set sign up. And another little plug, if you are a Kentucky farmer,
Alexis : high chances that you can have your travel as well as your registration refunded through the Kentucky Horticulture Council. So if you need more information on that, that is on our CCD website. We'll make sure that is in the show notes.
Alexis : But a little shameless plug before we we continue to talk about all these fun, nerdy things.
Brett: and And particularly relevant because we have one of the stars of the field day here, Ching Lu.
Alexis : Yes.
Qinglu: Are
Alexis : Yes, we will have her for a big section in the morning so everybody will get to experience her her magic and all her cool science-y stuff.
Brett: What are you going to be what are you going to be talking about What are you going to be talking about there?
Plant People: Her full spectrum glow.
Qinglu: we talking about mixing your own growing substrates?
Plant People: Yeah, I know that'll be popular with some of our growers.
Brett: what kind of what kind of What kind of samples, like what kind of materials will be on hand? What can we expect? i i'm looking i don't know about this.
Qinglu: Yeah, I'm trying to collect as many samples as possible now, like just having everyone to feel it and see how different they are in terms of water holding capacity and the nutrient availability in um in the substrates materials.
Brett: Wow. That sounds, i mean, I, I'm very looking forward to that.
Alexis : As a nerd, i'm very excited.
Brett: I love media. I love media.
Alexis : Well, yeah, I did i did some little ah media trials like on my own this spring with with some new media stuff.
Plant People: Just to.
Alexis : And it was, number one, super fun ah to see what did and didn't work. But it I was shocked at the difference and um in between. Between them, treated all the same.
Alexis : The trays were next to each other. same you know Everything was the same but the medias and how how different they were because of that nutrient i um you know capability and just the way things moved.
Alexis : And I was like, wow, I'm really glad I wasn't counting on some of these seedlings because they are not good.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : Or they died.
Brett: Uh-huh.
Alexis : They looked really good and then they died. So it it is important.
Plant People: I mean, small changes, it makes crazy differences. I mean, that's what kind of blows my mind is that we had, we have a local nursery that they grow native trees and they made one small change in their media.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: They use less peat. Well, that completely changed their pH profile. Yeah. And we finally figured out that's what it was.
Qinglu: Thank you.
Plant People: it was not as acidic, so we had to do acid and, you know, work with them on acid injections. ah Just because of the percentage of peat changed in the mix and they went to a bark-based mix completely changed the pH.
Plant People: I mean, the root zone seemed to be acceptable for, you know, other than, you know, just that pH.
Alexis : like the physical like the roots moved yeah
Plant People: Really? Yeah. Yeah, the roots moved through fine. The water holding capacity was good. Not too much, not too little. was in the Goldilocks zone. But man, just that pH. I looked between the sounds.
Plant People: was like, what did you guys do? And they're like, oh, yeah, we're using less pH. I mean, it is was just something. they They went to a different mix, and it just made, like you said, Alexis, all the difference in the world.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: And they just switched it up a little. And I was like, oh, So yeah, lots of nutrient deficiencies and other issues.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: So yeah, it doesn't take much.
Brett: but generally speaking, a ah slightly lower pH helps generally speaking with nutrient availability in plants.
Alexis : So yeah. have you
Brett: If for people who aren't plant nerds and are listening along, it's like that, that's a big deal because it it basically makes, it's like if you, the amount of food that you eat, if you were only able to absorb a fraction of the calories or the fraction of the vitamins and minerals from it's like that kind of effect.
Plant People: For what they were growing. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Plant People: Where's the fun in that bread?
Qinglu: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: I want the full effect of that Twinkie.
Brett: The, uh,
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Thank you very, very much.
Brett: and
Alexis : Yeah. um I'm also excited because, ah you know, to not only we have Ching Liu talking them and you get to experience all these media, but we have part of her team, Arunathi, is going to be talking about and kind of showing some differences and just ways to, you know, measure you know, inexpensively measure, you know, your humidity and your light and things like that.
Brett: the, uh,
Plant People: Oh, cool.
Alexis : So if you've had trouble, especially if you're growing some early crops, I think as as someone who starts a lot of seeds in the dead of winter, um it can be hard, right? And you're like, so do I need to be fertilizing more?
Alexis : Or is it just that they don't have enough light? Or, you know, are they look really weak? Is it calcium? You know, what is it? Or is it too humid? um
Qinglu: Thank you.
Alexis : Or not enough? And just so the difference that some of these relatively inexpensive sensors can do to really like bump up your success. And when we're talking, even if you know I'm not growing a ton of stuff in comparison to, you know i'm not I've got a small greenhouse, but seeds are expensive. And to your point of like media is expensive and you know your time is worth something. So if you're fighting kind of this endless battle, like how can you make that better? So I'm just i'm really excited. i was just talking with her yesterday about it and we were making some plans and ah So i'm I'm really excited because I think it's going to be so beneficial for people who maybe are struggling a little bit, ah especially with some of those long term, hard to grow seedlings. I think it's going to be really, really great.
Qinglu: And with the ARC, the project I was talking about, we were able to buy a whole bunch of those sensors so we can actually give those sensors out to commercial growers if they are interested in learning their growing environments and make improvements.
Jessica : Very cool.
Brett: And that is and those those sensors are are primarily measuring humidity and
Alexis : Oh,
Qinglu: It's measuring light, relative humidity, and temperature. So it's a three in
Brett: Wow.
Plant People: Oh, wow. They do all of those.
Jessica : oh that's nice.
Brett: That's awesome.
Qinglu: Yeah, I think the the good thing with that sensor is you can download the data from your phone. Like you can check real time measurements on your phone and it also create a spreadsheet that you can download.
Alexis : wow.
Jessica : That's really cool.
Qinglu: um So if, for example, what we're thinking is those new growers who are not familiar with their growing environments, they can even put their sensors in their facilities to understand the daily or the seasonal variation to start with seeing how hot it can get before making a really large planting.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alexis : here
Brett: Whoa, that's so cool.
Plant People: Brett just got excited with spreadsheets.
Jessica : It's really neat.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Well, yeah. I mean, it reminds me, were talking before about like tensiometers and soil water probes and things, especially with black plastic and just the way that having that data point, you know, we're not trying to overwhelm people with data or turn farmers into researchers, but man, it's so nice to, especially if you're I think it's a little hot in there.
Alexis : Thank you.
Brett: You look and it's like, yeah, it's getting hot in there. It's a nice like either corroboration or a way to go and check and
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: um Yeah, that's really, really cool. i'm i'm I'm curious, like, as you look now, two I cannot believe it's been two years. um That's pretty crazy that you've been been working here in Kentucky.
Brett: what do you What do you hope for Kentucky controlled environment, ag, agriculture, you know, in the next, maybe next two years, next five years and beyond? What what are your hopes or visions for that?
Qinglu: Well, um I personally am hoping to help more growers. um um I think a lot of growers don't know that our exist extension team even exists. So I'm hoping to expand our outreach to help more growers with their needs. And for them, I'm i'm just simply hoping that they can grow more using less.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah, especially with the rising costs of just, you know, natural gas or whatever, electric or whatever they're using.
Brett: yeah
Qinglu: Uh-huh.
Plant People: Yeah.
Qinglu: Yeah.
Jessica : of everything.
Alexis : Yeah. Yeah.
Qinglu: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Well, it's been, I mean, I've been now, once upon a time, I was working out at the South Farm in the the high research high tunnels out there.
Alexis : well done
Brett: And one day when I was picking strawberries and weighing them for yield, we were doing the variety trial or something. ah Somebody, a person, just random person rolled up and was like, hey, I just got money from, and this was all new and new terms to me at the time.
Brett: I got this money from the NRCS to put up a high tunnel. And wanted to like, see what that was all about. Um, and so this was right, right when they started and I was like, Oh, it's cool.
Brett: Like, it's cool that you're figuring this out. Would have been cool to know what what this was about before you received the money. But you know, that's a, we'll, we'll put the court, we'll try to get this cart back behind that, that horse, um, as much as we can.
Brett: But that was the first. And then from then on, it was like at least a couple times a month, if not once a week, there'd be people coming out and seeing stuff. And and we just not had a strong capacity to support that as robustly as I've seen you supporting it and Arunathie supporting it and that whole team.
Brett: And so it's just been really cool to see. the impact you've had. I know you're saying maybe people don't know about you yet, but there's a lot of people who do know and who have benefited from it. And i'm looking forward to just seeing that continued support and expansion of across the spectrum of growers. Cause it's really, it's become a really important and big piece of the horticulture and agricultural industry in Kentucky.
Plant People: Yeah.
Qinglu: Yeah, excited.
Plant People: Literally a growing portion of ag in Kentucky.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : yeah
Plant People: Sorry.
Alexis : and And I'm all i'm impressed at the vast width, like, you know, a lot of people might think you only work with some of those really big greenhouses.
Plant People: Sorry.
Alexis : And, you know, you're saying, no, we work with the person who just got their very first greenhouse and needs to figure that. And that in itself is just... it's a lot to, to, to fulfill those very different needs and probably different crops.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Alexis : And, you know, you're going throw, you throw in floriculture versus veg. And of course, you know, we have specialists who are very into that, but you're the one who's talking about the whole system. And so the different needs of those is just, it's wild.
Alexis : And I'm so glad we have people like you who are so brilliant.
Brett: So is there, remind me, is there like a particular website or anything like that for for resources or is a lot of stuff on the CCD site that you all have? I mean, if people want to find you or find information or whatever, what would be the best way to do that?
Qinglu: All of our resources are with CCD, I believe. And we have a specific website for greenhouse um horticulture, I believe.
Brett: Okay.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Qinglu: And um we put out a lot of resources for different production system as well as the production guides of different crops um that can be grown in the greenhouse. So um if people are looking for resources, I think CCD will be the best um place to find them or just contact me.
Alexis : Yeah, Ching Lu's team just released um two really exciting pubs. One's a high wire tomato system, which was like has really great pictures in it and really just really laid it out in a way I've not seen before. And I thought looked great. And then one I'm really excited about, we'll have some more info up there.
Alexis : for a news article on CCD's website, but is on sort of protecting your structures in this various climate we've had. And you go into heat, but also, you know, we just had a thunderstorm last night and thunderstorm watch and 60 mile per hour winds came through.
Jessica : Amen.
Alexis : And so you kind of talk about everything from snow load to wind to high heat. And I was like, You don't know the squeal I squealed when I saw that you guys are putting that out because it's so needed.
Alexis : And there's I i know I get questions from friends who have tunnels and greenhouses all the time. Do I open it? Do I close it You know, there's just you're so worried in the moment. And so having that resource, I think, is going to be so great.
Alexis : I'm very you and Dr. Rudolph put that out. And I'm i' so excited about it. I just needed to tell you in person how excited I am about it. It's going to be really great.
Qinglu: we think there's a very much needed resources.
Alexis : man
Qinglu: and We couldn't put it out during last snowstorm, but we think like, like nowadays, anytime is a good time to put that out.
Alexis : yeah Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : um Awesome. Well, Dr. Yang, we are so glad that you were here with us today. And like i said, if you want to come see her brilliance in action, as well as her whole team, we'd love to have you out of the field day. And if you need more info about that, we'll have that in the show notes. You can also follow us on Instagram at court culture podcast. Shoot us an email if you're like, Hey, Alexis, I cannot find that. And I will send you, um, direct registration link, as well as if you're a Kentucky farmer, the link to get reimbursed through the Kentucky Horticulture Council. Very grateful for them for, you know, being able to support Kentucky farmers further in their education. So it's going be really great. um I'm shamelessly plugging it because it's a huge event that I help put on and I'm very proud of it. So we hope you guys will join us. We appreciate you being with here, being with us here today. See, I'm so excited. My words are all jumbled. Anyways, thank you all. Have a great one.
