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00:00:00
00:00:01
#34 - Prediction Markets, Post Election Rally and the Foundation Business Model
36 Plays2 months ago
Guil is the founder of neow3j, a development toolkit that simplifies building dApps on the NEO ecosystem. Songping is a Senior Marketing Manager at NEO, the first non-EVM smart contract blockchain.
Blockchain's Role in Transparency and Voting Systems
The discussion opened with the impact of the U.S. election results on the cryptocurrency market. We looked at how platforms like Polymarket enable people to financially engage with political events through prediction markets. Guil pointed out that such platforms showcase a significant use case for blockchain technology, offering transparency and verifiable outcomes. The host expressed a desire to see blockchain integrated into national voting systems to ensure integrity and prevent fraud. Guil agreed, emphasizing that while the technology exists, widespread adoption requires educating both the public and policymakers to build trust in these systems.
Neo's Unique Approach to Developer Friendliness
A major focus of the conversation was Neo's commitment to making blockchain development accessible. Unlike platforms that limit developers to specific languages like Solidity, Neo allows smart contracts to be written in multiple mainstream programming languages, including Java, Python, and C#. Guil explained that this is achieved through compilers developed by the Neo community, which translate these languages into NeoVM bytecode.
Guil and Songping emphasized that Neo's support for various programming languages is the result of collaborative efforts from global community teams. This decentralized development model encourages contributions from different regions and expertise, enhancing the robustness of the ecosystem. By not confining developers to a single language, Neo nurtures a diverse and dynamic community that can adapt to evolving technological demands.
We also discussed the launch of NeoX, an EVM-compatible sidechain designed to be MEV-resistant. NeoX represents Neo's multi-chain strategy, serving as a bridge between the Neo ecosystem and the broader EVM-compatible blockchain world. Guil detailed how a native bridge enables seamless interoperability between NeoN3, the main chain, and NeoX. This bridge allows assets and data to move freely between chains, enhancing user experience and breaking down barriers between different blockchain networks.
The Future of NFTs and Non-Fungible Items (NFIs)
Addressing the downturn in the NFT market, the conversation shifted to the potential of NFTs when combined with physical items, creating Non-Fungible Items (NFIs). Both guests expressed optimism about this integration, believing it could rejuvenate interest in NFTs. They shared examples of physical items like rings embedded with blockchain technology, which can interact with smart contracts to provide unique experiences—such as verifying identity at events or unlocking exclusive content in games. This blend of the digital and physical realms could open new avenues for utility and engagement in the NFT space.
A significant highlight was Neo's initiative to implement anti-MEV (Miner Extractable Value) resistance in NeoX. Guil explained that by utilizing encrypted mempools and delaying the revelation of transaction details until a block is finalized, NeoX aims to prevent malicious actors from exploiting users through front-running and other MEV strategies. This commitment to creating a fairer blockchain environment is expected to attract DeFi projects and users who are concerned about transaction security and integrity.
Towards the end of the conversation, Songping anonunced the ongoing Grind Hackathon, an event aimed at fostering innovation and supporting developers.
This podcast is fuelled by Algorithmic crypto trading platform Aesir.
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Transcript
Intro
Crypto Excitement & Neo Ecosystem
00:00:09
CyberPunkMetalHead
ah First of all, let me just say that it's fantastic to have you both here. um I think there's some really cool things that we can talk about when it comes to crypto and especially, you know, Neo ecosystem. So thanks for joining. How are you both doing?
00:00:25
Songping
um I guess they can I can start.
00:00:25
Guil
Something.
00:00:27
Songping
So um it's doing great. like so First of all, thank you for having us.
Market Reactions to Elections
00:00:33
Songping
And as you said, like today actually we got the big news, even though like we're not really voting, but I guess like the crypto people are very paying attention to what's happening.
00:00:44
CyberPunkMetalHead
I know. the hype is The hype is palpable. It's fantastic. Wake up to 7% still pumping. Really nice. I gotta say, it's really it's a really nice day.
00:00:55
Songping
Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a very good like signal to the market and also ah in terms of like the following kind of get more back to the US market. Yeah. Definitely. A lot of things are going to happen next year, I think.
00:01:11
Guil
yeah and i'm Yeah, I'm doing fine.
00:01:12
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah.
00:01:14
Guil
Thanks for asking. like ah Thank you for having us as well here. ah Yeah, let's i'm I'm curious. I'm excited to dive you know to some of the topics that you you're going to bring.
00:01:24
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, 100%. Obviously, you know the big a elephant in the room is the election results. And it's it's it's really interesting to see that there was such a quick reaction in the market. People were expecting it.
$18M Bet on Trump's Win
00:01:36
CyberPunkMetalHead
like A lot of people, I got a few friends messaging me saying, like hey, if you put some money into Bitcoin now, like tomorrow, that's easy money. It's practically guaranteed.
00:01:45
CyberPunkMetalHead
And then i I see people on Twitter going like, ah taking screenshots of Poly Market with the polls going like 84%, you know that Trump's going to win in certain states. And then people going and saying, oh, Poly Market is basically selling a dollar for 84 pence. It is really interesting to see how many people I saw this one guy on Twitter that had put down 18 million on Poly Market on Trump stood to make 29.6 million, obviously.
00:02:13
CyberPunkMetalHead
I think unless there's anything completely unexpected, it doesn't look like it, he's effectively almost doubled his money within a very short time span. So it's it's it's really because we haven't had this kind of it like financial, like close tie in financially with elections before, you know, with things like polymer, like people are a lot more like they have more skin in the game in many ways than they used to in previous elections. It's interesting to see how that plays out in in crypto and blockchain.
Prediction Markets & Crypto Adoption
00:02:39
Guil
yeah absolutely so what what i have like to say all this ah very shortly ah So, it's prediction markets, I think it's, i don't i'm I'm not a financial kind of guy, I'm more a computer scientist or a tech person, but ah like I know that prediction markets are a financial instrument, some sort of.
00:02:52
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:02:59
Guil
It's a great ah use case for crypto. And when I, I mean, like the other day, a friend of mine just came to me in a dinner and said, man, do you know the side of like, Polymarket? And I said, man, this is used crypto, you know?
00:03:12
Guil
So, yeah, yeah, of course. and know and So it's it's great to see like a wider adoption to this prediction markets, like using crypto, like using something that we built, ah even though it's a financial product to not exactly gamble, but sort of, you know, and these is widely being adopted across trade fi across like all the all different areas. So yeah, I mean, I'm excited, even though it's sometimes we we we like the idealists don't don't don't
00:03:43
Guil
aim to build this kind of products, it's great to find like this.
00:03:45
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right. No, it's great to see them. And I guess, you know, if you look at it from the perspective of transparency, it's something like Polymarket, you know, it's, you can open it up, you can look at it, you can see that it is transparent.
Blockchain Transparency vs Traditional Systems
00:03:58
CyberPunkMetalHead
You can see that the algorithm is verifiable. but Whereas, you know, slot machines or, and I'm not saying, you know, don't gamble. Fine. Is that what you like? If you enjoy gambling, like go all out, but it is a lot more verifiable than than other systems. And i i I do like that about it.
00:04:14
Guil
No, 100%, 100% agree.
00:04:15
Songping
Yeah, actually I would like to echo on that. I think the blockchain technology or the crypto kind of for help a lot about like the intuitively, like the traceable and also verification, like because everything's like put on chain and like it's verified. And in comparing to like, how do you say we always have those kinds of political conspiracy, like saying, like, are you manipulating the votes?
00:04:44
Songping
And then you're doing something behind and actually like, like you said, more transparent, like every on-chain data so ah speak for themselves. Yeah.
00:04:56
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, and there's ah there's a proof of every event that has happened. There's a log there. You can verify, you can go back. like I would like to see, in an ideal world, I would like to see own chain voting system you know in countries because that's the only way to guarantee that something happened and it's unequivocally there and it can't be rolled back.
00:05:14
CyberPunkMetalHead
um For instance, I wasn't even aware because I'm not super big on US s politics, you know but they they obviously make their way into Europe, so kind of everyone talks about them. um I wasn't even aware up until recently that in many states, you don't need an ID.
00:05:25
CyberPunkMetalHead
You don't require an ID to vote in the US. And I'm like, what the fuck, guys?
00:05:28
Guil
Well, I had the same reaction. and i Yesterday, was I was in a you know call with ah Tyler. ah you know I'm going to send send some cheers to Tyler here. um he is ah He's part of our ecosystem in Neo. He's like the the CEO of CLZ. And like we're just having a conversation about like some other topics, technical topics, et cetera, about our products. And then like I mentioned exactly this should to the admin.
Blockchain in Voting: Transparency & Integrity
00:05:56
Guil
You don't need a D? Can you tell me? Because he's American. He he lives in in Colorado. like Can you tell me if it's true?
00:06:00
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:06:02
Guil
And he said, well, he's kind of misleading. But actually, when i when I send my ballot there, I don't need to present any kind of ID.
00:06:12
Guil
However, when they receive the ballot and open the ballot, like they verify if I'm eligible to vote or not. so But ah you know in every different state, you have a different way of send in the ballot like ah of ah providing ID or not.
00:06:26
Guil
So it's ah it kind of ah everywhere is different. But I was super impressed. You know, like then we're talking exactly like this. and right Man, technology is already there.
00:06:36
Guil
You can have voting like in a ledger, um even if you ask or any kind of nation state who could fork ah or could it even
00:06:38
CyberPunkMetalHead
You can.
00:06:46
Guil
do their own chain and have attached IDs to like a gito twin in blockchain. And then when you go there and vote it ah with ah your physical, um like, let's say ID ah would, ah you know,
00:07:02
Guil
signed something on chain. So the technologies there is just more about I think like education and and and making everyone comfortable with this technology because you have like to go so many layers until you reach the decision makers, you know, and convince everyone that like this technology is valid, nobody can manipulate, you guys have the freedom to choose choose to develop on it.
00:07:15
CyberPunkMetalHead
100%.
00:07:23
Guil
So man, there's a lot of effort, but eventually we're gonna get there.
00:07:27
CyberPunkMetalHead
100%. It also takes a government wanting to work in in good faith with the latest technologies. Unless there's a government that has an agenda that has anything to hide, you know that's obviously going to make it more difficult to adopt. But if there is a good faith adoption of technology and transparency and like good values, then I think it's only a matter of time. It's been proven that it's it's it's actually one of the ideal technologies for that, like a a ledger. It's one of the best ways that you can preserve you know the quality of of that voting system.
00:07:57
CyberPunkMetalHead
um
00:07:57
Guil
Yeah, but just let let me just add of something here.
00:07:58
CyberPunkMetalHead
so
00:08:01
Guil
So I'm ah these days, we can export this later, but like these days I'm super also into researching a bit full of a more of encryption.
00:08:10
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm-hmm.
00:08:10
Guil
And like this technology gives some sort of ah more tooling to to also voting. I'm going to give you like a very, very simple example. so Sometimes people ask me, OK, Gil, I'm going to sign something and I'm going to vote on in a dial on chain. But actually, everyone is going to see what I voted, when I voted. And then this can bias other people until the last moment where the voting closes. So like how how can we change that? are we going to have like We have to go to Ledgers, which has some sort of ah
00:08:47
Guil
privacy in the core layer. And my answer to this is no. if you Because technology is already there, you can use full of more encryption, where you can have confidential parts of a smart contract. ah and all but can you can You can say, look, the vote, what do you vote? It will not be transparent until the voting closes. So this solve is this this kind of transparent, this this ah How can I say this ah this problem of people getting biased and you know in a transparent like open ledger? So yeah, also again, technology is there. It's just making people comfortable and to it.
00:09:26
CyberPunkMetalHead
100%. And I think that there's different ways of you can achieve. You could achieve it with fully homomorphic encryption.
Crypto Innovations: Solana & Monero
00:09:31
CyberPunkMetalHead
You could achieve it with, um if you look at other ecosystems, like what Solana is doing with token extensions, you can get private transfers in Solana.
00:09:37
Guil
Yes.
00:09:38
CyberPunkMetalHead
um You could even bring bring back the OG Monero, right? like Not a lot of people talk about Monero nowadays, but like that was like the OG privacy coin. you know And I for one who was quite disappointed to see that it got the listed on Binance because like it it's It stands for everything that crypto used to stand for, plus you know the added privacy.
00:09:57
CyberPunkMetalHead
it's it's It's a layer that I think is definitely needed, and it's good to see it come back.
00:09:59
Guil
and
00:10:02
CyberPunkMetalHead
It's good to see Solana adding the token extensions. It's good to see ah you know fully homomorphic encryption being added. I was just talking to a project like the other week that they've implemented. They're working to implement fully homomorphic encryption.
00:10:14
CyberPunkMetalHead
um It was the guys that are building um a decentralized AI computing network, Lillipad,
00:10:17
Guil
10%. OK, no.
00:10:21
CyberPunkMetalHead
So they're working with Zama and Zama's helping them out kind of integrate fully homomorphic encryption.
00:10:22
Guil
Oh yeah.
00:10:28
CyberPunkMetalHead
And I think the only, when when I remember that discussion, the only challenge or the main challenge was the fact that it's very computationally heavy when you compare it like plain text computation, because you have to work with the encrypted data and apply computation on that.
00:10:41
CyberPunkMetalHead
I still think it's bloody magic that the fact that you you you don't decrypt it.
00:10:41
Guil
You're right. No, it's is's magic.
00:10:47
CyberPunkMetalHead
And it does seem like it's getting lighter and faster in time.
00:10:50
Guil
Yeah, yeah. yeah um i Yeah, I think like Songping also here, I tried to bring this topic of polymorphic encryption in this new technology so many times. And I feel that people like me, it's needed out there because you have like to to keep saying things over and over again and then making people say, oh, this is possible. But yeah, this is like kind of black magic. So how does it work? Can you explain once, you explain twice, explain three times? you know But ah but ah it's okay. it's ah It's good to see also other of projects collaborating with someone. Yeah.
00:11:30
CyberPunkMetalHead
I think once you get it, you get it. You know, it's like I remember the first time I understood like async and await in programming and like you could explain to me 50 times or like, oh yeah, you await this function.
00:11:40
CyberPunkMetalHead
But no, I don't get it. How does it, and then it clicks, but it has to click in your own head.
00:11:42
Guil
Yep.
00:11:44
CyberPunkMetalHead
I feel like it's it's the understanding that you have to bring upon yourself to kind of really grasp that concept.
00:11:51
Guil
well Absolutely. Absolutely.
Neo Blockchain: History & Features
00:11:54
CyberPunkMetalHead
So you're obviously both passionate about the Neo blockchain. um Do you want to give a like a high level overview, either of us ah either of you, ah about what are the unique selling points of Neo and and maybe a brief history of of how the chain got created in the first place?
00:12:15
Songping
Sure.
00:12:16
Guil
Something or.
00:12:16
Songping
ah Yeah, I think I can start. So, ah as you may know, Neil is a very old, like, long-time player in this industry. We have been around, like, ever since 2014.
00:12:28
Songping
So I think the long-term track record has been a good legacy for us. And like we've been building up the brand reputation.
00:12:39
Songping
So ah in terms of like the uniqueness, I think we've been doing a lot of technical-wise innovation.
00:12:39
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm hmm.
00:12:47
Songping
So we were the first non-EVM smart contract platform and where the first kind of ah applies a dual token economy and also we're bringing like this all-in-one kind of development toolkit and I think like what we've been the other point we've been doing writing trying really hard is to provide like so really the developer friendliness.
00:13:19
Songping
So um I think as the first like non-EBM kind of ah virtual machine, so we will actually enable like those more mainstream kind of verb to developers with like access to the blockchain world.
00:13:24
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm hmm.
00:13:34
Songping
So if you're using like Python, Java, C-sharp, like you can actually ah just use the languages you are familiar with and kind of start to develop like smart contract on the protocol. And ah meanwhile, like ah we we probably are going to mention this later, so To add on it, where where launch we have launched Cytian, which is EVM compatible and MEV resistance. It's called NeoX. So this is doubling down our like efforts on bringing or break down the barriers to the ah mass adoption. So ah on top of Web2 developer kind of friendliness, we basically provide like the Solidity developers
00:14:22
Songping
also the same kind of easiness to the Neo ecosystem.
00:14:27
Guil
Yes, um um I'm going to add something here to what something said, or maybe highlight, because I think this is pretty important. So ah and I've been working with Neo since, I think, tual beginning in 2018.
00:14:42
Guil
I got 2017, but 18 was when i I started contributing.
00:14:42
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:14:46
Guil
And so just maybe three or four weeks ago, someone from the team came to me. Gil, we were the first. non-UVM chains to enable smart contracts. And they say, what? I didn't know. We have to explore more of this. so ah But why why why this is important? Because it's not because look what I've done and we're important kind of thing. It's just because we learned so much over the years with ah with things that ah we roll out to Neo, et cetera. And you know I think I feel that's
00:15:25
Guil
Sometimes we see other chains, Andrei.
00:15:30
Guil
For example, Algorand. I'm not going to bash any any chain here because I'm an aggregator. I like to and actually to work as a team.
00:15:36
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:15:37
Guil
you know But for example, Algorand. Algorand just is investing a lot in Python ah a smart contracts. You can write these smart contracts using Python or other languages.
00:15:50
Guil
and we we We've done this and we've we learned that besides having ah enabling all these programming languages for developers to write their smart contracts, we have to go one step further. We have to ah embrace also Solidity developers. We have to to go to other parts, which maybe the non-EVM chains, they didn't realize that.
00:16:13
Guil
But, I mean, we are so long in the market. We are so long in this game that its same man we have we have to keep going. We don't we don't have just to focus on like bringing web 2 guys to web 3, but we have also to embrace web 3 and create this ecosystem. So I think that's... I just wanted to highlight this because um so sometimes you say, oh, we were one of the first guys that did this. But it's not only about history, it's about what you learn on the way.
00:16:43
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, 100%. And by the way, Algorand is such a throwback because I remember back in twenty maybe 2020, 2021, when the cryptocurrency sub-rated was in love with Algorand. Everyone was just talking about how great of a project it is. And I think on paper, it looked and it sounded really good.
00:17:03
CyberPunkMetalHead
and And not sure if you've seen the video but a Gary Gensler was chilling Algorand at some point when he was like a professor at some kind of university he was talking about his mate who's developed this system which is Algorand and then he became the head of the SEC and like switched 180 degrees which was really interesting to see.
00:17:20
CyberPunkMetalHead
um but But yeah, feel since since since then, it feels like there's no more discussion of algorithms in the community. I think it even dropped out of like top 50 or top 100 by market cap.
00:17:34
CyberPunkMetalHead
So it's shrinking and I haven't really been following it along.
00:17:37
Guil
yeah
00:17:37
CyberPunkMetalHead
If you know why it's been why it hasn't worked out, that'd be really interesting to know.
00:17:40
Guil
No, I think no point in a few years. Just highlighting that in the crypto space sometimes, I feel, at least for me, that we have to learn with others what the guy has done and what is his strength of projects, and then you have to adapt or collaborate with others.
00:18:01
Guil
um And I think at the moment, for in in in the new ecosystem, we realize, okay, we've done something great in the non-AVN space. Like we were in the first, we we we we tried ah ah to be developer-friendly, we tried. And I mean, at some, of course,
00:18:21
Guil
At some stages, we we were successful in in some projects, onboarding people, et cetera, but nothing compares to ah like the the the magnitude of EVM and Ethereum community. we have We have to recognize this. We have to be humble on every recognize that. So yeah, I think that's a that's that's the the highlight that I wanted you to give.
00:18:44
Guil
And now we are we are also going towards a NeoX, which is our EVM sidechain, besides our non-EVM chain.
00:18:56
Guil
So we we have like both ah kind of coexisting and only the same ecosystem.
00:18:58
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:19:02
CyberPunkMetalHead
And before we get into that, Songpei, I had a question because you mentioned ah that you can, you're able as developer, you're able to write in different languages. You said you've got Python, Java, Java based like Kotlin and a couple of others. How does that work? Like how, how do you interpret the different languages and and how does it work under the hood? If you want to give a brief overview of that.
00:19:25
Songping
ah The simple answer will be like through the NeoVM, but when it comes to the details, I think Gil can do a better job than I do.
00:19:33
Guil
yeah Yeah, so so so so yeah just just a very short here.
00:19:35
CyberPunkMetalHead
Okay, no stress.
00:19:41
Guil
Basically, we ah our members of our community, we wrote compilers. like ah So it means that you can write Java, Python, C-sharp, Kotlin, et cetera.
00:19:57
Guil
And you can write in these smart contracts in these languages. And then you can use specific software for each of these languages developed in our ecosystem to translate this to our NeoVM.
00:20:11
Guil
So it's basically a compiler. We have a different compiler for different programming languages.
00:20:15
CyberPunkMetalHead
right right so this compiler
00:20:18
Guil
And then basically everything runs in NeoVM, which is a non-EVM, but it's really powerful because we have some built-in features in UVM that others out there ah you know and don't don't have it. so That's basically an overview.
00:20:38
Guil
yeah
00:20:38
CyberPunkMetalHead
So this compiler, does it is it present in all the nodes? Or maybe you have nodes that are using you know our compiling C-sharp and those are compiling Python, et cetera? Or is it just any node can compile any code?
00:20:49
Guil
Yeah, so so but basically, the compilation, this process of translating source language of Java or Python to a new VM, is hes a it happens on developer's machine.
00:21:04
Guil
So like this this is developer, when you're coding your smart contract, ah you it's you just is's like Solidity.
00:21:05
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:21:11
Guil
you have the so You have the Solidity compiler, the Salk they call to to convert from Solidity to EVM. So it happens the same with us. We have a tool ah a specific tooling, one compiler called Neo3j for Java, another compiler called Neoboa for Python and others.
00:21:23
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:21:33
Guil
That in developers machine, you can generate these smart contracts. And then also you have like this file like compatible with Neo, which it represents your smart contract, you just deploy in any kind of node you know using any kind of node in our network.
00:21:49
Guil
So ah the nodes in our network, they they they have ah they execute NeoVM, Neo vien new Virtual Machine, which is a specific virtual machine ah for Neo.
00:21:50
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right
00:22:02
CyberPunkMetalHead
and And is that the name of the language that it compiles down to? ways Is NeoVM that?
00:22:06
Guil
Yeah. It's the Neo VM, yeah.
00:22:08
CyberPunkMetalHead
Okay.
00:22:09
Guil
Neo neo like virtual machine. Yeah.
00:22:12
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right. So it's a language that you guys have created from scratch to deal with with this. that's really That's really fascinating. That's that's very interesting.
00:22:17
Guil
yeah
00:22:18
CyberPunkMetalHead
yeah So in a sense, it works like, if if I was to trans translate this into web two terms, you're writing in TypeScript, but your IDE compiles it to JavaScript at runtime.
00:22:29
Guil
Exactly. Yeah, sort of.
00:22:32
CyberPunkMetalHead
That's very cool. That's very cool. So um I noticed that you were primarily focused on Java and Kotlin. I'm guessing the other languages um got introduced later. Is that safe to say?
00:22:47
Guil
No, actually, actually, ah neo the NeoCon system started with C-sharp ah back in the days, C-sharp, and in then, and in
00:22:52
CyberPunkMetalHead
I see. OK.
00:22:56
Guil
after like After some time, other people interested on building compilers just join our ecosystem. ah For example, Python is pretty strong. ah Java also. Golang is really strong in our community as well.
00:23:14
Guil
um and yeah so ah I mean, all these languages were not there at start, you know, like in 2015, 2016, but they fifteen but they they appeared over the years. in the Right now, the maturity level of of this ah of these compilers and these languages, I would say that it's high. I think we have, ah there are multiple, there are stable coins written that have written ah
00:23:47
Guil
their smart contract in in Java, for example, or the five protocols that are written in C sharp. So it's I think it's ah is is is something stable when used.
00:24:02
Songping
here I actually would like to add like just like wow what Gio described is perfect and but it actually also reflect actually one uniqueness of the Neo community so we are the like I think real community driven protocol because we actually have like Gio mentioned all those different like developed communities like scattered all over the world and like Gio he's based in Switzerland and
00:24:03
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:24:29
Songping
he His team, like Xlab, is called Sponsored ah from Neo Foundation. And they kind of get the funding, and as they like got enough like how to say talent to work on like more Neo3j languages that they are more into, and developing the compilers or like related toolings for it.
00:24:52
Songping
And meanwhile, we also have...
00:24:52
CyberPunkMetalHead
I think we may have lost you there for a second, Songping. I'm not sure if you can hear her.
00:24:57
Songping
Can you hear me now?
00:24:57
CyberPunkMetalHead
Oh. Sorry.
00:24:59
Guil
Yes, here and no, yes.
00:24:59
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah. Yeah, I think you're back.
00:25:00
Songping
Oh, okay. Um, so just mentioned, like, we got all those different like sponsored developer communities. And, uh, we also have actually a very, um, I think a very talented, uh, team and based in basing us s like.
00:25:15
Songping
c z So they are more working on like Python and I think it's Python, right? So like this team is more focused on the Python kind of school kind of toolings.
00:25:23
Guil
Yes.
00:25:27
Songping
And so there are multiple, like similar kind of this type of teams, like developer teams. So they kind of like doing their own, but all putting together and faster, like the new system, like a new ecosystem in altogether.
00:25:46
CyberPunkMetalHead
So that's really interesting because you've mentioned you have this team that's based in the US and quite a few times when I talk to a project, they go like, oh, we don't really touch the US s like one inch.
00:25:57
CyberPunkMetalHead
No, we don't want to be there. We don't want to go. So it's interesting to see that you you guys have a team that works in the US.
00:25:59
Songping
Oh.
00:26:02
CyberPunkMetalHead
What is the connection between that team and your and your product in Neo?
00:26:08
Songping
So it's not like they are not like a full-time employee of like NIO, they're like more sponsored kind of communities. So they've been put forward the proposals and saying like, what kind of, what certain area of like development they want to focus on, what kind of products they want to work on.
00:26:28
Songping
So we give them the funding or other supports they need, and they kind of doing the things. So in the end, it's all those, like this product here, so it' so like efforts there and all combined together.
00:26:39
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm hmm.
00:26:41
Songping
Like we do want to, how to say encourage, like the community style kind of ah development instead of just more centralized and saying like, uh, like ABC company style.
00:26:48
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:26:52
Songping
So we, we do encourage more community yeah driven.
00:26:57
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, I've seen this. I think this is, it's obviously a recurring theme or recurring practice in crypto and Web3 to kind of act as a foundation and to source and to fund different projects around. Is that normally a mutually beneficial relationship? Are there any risks or is it is and is it more efficient than working in-house? Like how does that dynamic work ah usually?
00:27:21
Songping
Um, I think I can like share my thoughts first and Gil can always add as a, because he's actually a founder for like one of the developer communities.
00:27:24
CyberPunkMetalHead
Sure.
00:27:25
Guil
Yeah.
00:27:30
Songping
So from my side, because I work for NGD, so Neo Global Development, that's the execution arm of Neo Foundation. So we're taking care more about like marketing, business development, and like the maintenance of the, like the protocol, ah including some like operation.
00:27:51
Songping
why So ah from our side, of course, like normally like in-house practice will be more efficient because you cannot all stay in one room or like at least in one time zone, you cannot communicate fast. and But I actually appreciate like the community style, like when it was always a very pressure time to ah contact or to talk to Gil in Switzerland, talked to talk to like our team kind of another communities are facing in us. Despite all the time, some challenges. Yeah, that's why I say i'm familiar with this 10 p.m. concourse. And I feel like actually, um because the communities, they all have their like expertise. So they are like technical kind of expertise in their own field.
00:28:43
Songping
And that's their passion. like That's their interest life. So that's what they do most efficiently. And also, they keep the how to say possibilities open.
00:28:55
Songping
So like you mentioned, he's he has an interest in FHE.
00:28:55
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm hmm.
00:28:59
Songping
and in our like in-house or like in NGT we may not have such talent and it may not come to our mind at all but only when like some community members mention like oh FHE is very interesting we share like spend some efforts invest some resource to do some research and kind of sharing the research results are throughout the community and we're kind of sharing or provide the feedback altogether and saying, oh, there is there like a value in it and we should spend more or we should like dig deeper. I think that's how like such interesting ideas kind of ah show up.
00:29:39
Songping
So I actually feel like there's a balance so ah for marketing or for like BD, a more centralized way will be efficient. But like for development, especially, we want to make the possibilities open, make the different directions open.
00:29:50
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mmhmm.
00:29:59
Songping
but I do feel like the community way works as well.
00:30:03
Guil
Yeah. ah i Yeah, I agree with with some what Sunping said. um Let me add another angle here, which is the angle of, ah let's say, self-policy. What what it means by that, it it means that maybe if Xlabs develops something develop something to the whole ecosystem, to the new ecosystem, there are other entities kind of independent, you know ah like, for example, COS in the US, or let's say, ah ah someone in in Spain or Germany. So these guys, we're going to look to our implementation and see, oh, guys, what about if you do a bit differently? What about if three we you just ah ah add more security layers to it? So so because then it then becomes ah an environment where ah everyone is is working to, on let's say, to boost the new ecosystem and not as a single company.
00:31:02
Guil
which is an all bring This entity brings passion to the game, brings ah ah telling others how they can enhance their products. And I think this has been a future for everyone. So it's a big family, I would say. It's like an ecosystem, a big family. and ah um i mean ah this This pays off, for example, when yeah we develop a very critical piece of software, for example, like a bridge.
00:31:26
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mmhmm.
00:31:27
Guil
We develop a bridge. Man, a bridge is is really complex, really difficult. You have to be very security-focused. And if just one entity develops that develop it and just hires some auditors,
00:31:41
Guil
This is one way of doing. It's OK, but it's one way. But what about if you have like multiple entities across giving you opinions, participating in meetings, like maybe reviewing the code? I think i think this is it's more robust. It takes more time, for sure. his favorite law It takes longer. But that's a price where we pay for for for this right off.
00:32:04
CyberPunkMetalHead
yeah I'm also interested what the relationship is when it comes to you know pitching an idea and then project managing and bringing the idea to the end. like would it be ah Gil, would it be up to you to project manage and and like ensure that everything stays on scope? um Does Neo have any input? Do you have like any touch points with the Neo team? Would you go like, okay, we're on track. Okay, take it off.
00:32:25
CyberPunkMetalHead
move to the next thing and so on. like um I'm interested from the perspective of someone, let's say, that wants to build on Neo and would like to understand how that works or for any foundation in general.
00:32:36
Guil
Yeah, so so with with us, I mean, this this okay let let me try to to just start a topic and then some pink and add something on there. So so ah for for these communities which are sponsored by Neo,
00:32:50
Guil
um Usually, the the ideas ah come either from us, they're sponsored, and then we try to bring to to Neo or to the Foundation or to NGD and work with them ah to see, oh, this is good. This is the direction that we're going. we We're going to the same direction, yes or no. And then if the answer is yes, then we can, let's say,
00:33:12
Guil
bring this project to the broader ecosystem and then like further to develop it. And then like each of these communities will be ah the the responsible of managing and building the product and the showcasing it, putting forward demos, etc. So this this is like one of the the the the points of Of course, we need to write proposals.
00:33:32
Guil
We need to, you know, it's not a ah process.
00:33:34
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:33:34
Guil
Here's an idea and here's like your exposure. It's not like this, but um you need to write a proposal. We need some formalities, etc. But ah you sometimes Sometimes we are lying on the vision and sometimes not. Sometimes our ideas get ah let's say get killed. And it this is totally normal normal and in and and in fine. But most of the time, we are lying because we as an ecosystem, we know we're going. So this is one angle. like Then there's a lot of angles of funding and the grants and et cetera.
00:34:10
Guil
which um you know maybe something can can tell a bit more about it.
00:34:16
Songping
Yeah, when we talk about projects, we actually kind of divide it into two different types in our ecosystem. So as Gail just mentioned, like the sponsor developed communities, what they've been doing is more long time, like, and more like nonprofit driven. So it's more related to the like toolings and more protocol level kind of ah development. So that's like, how do you say a new foundation is highly sponsoring it and also give more um flexibility and also authority for the like communities too to come up the proposal, come up their own kind of, ah how to say, milestones, their deliverables.
00:34:54
Songping
And ah Neo Foundation will have someone, well of course, to have the regular communication and also the progress tracking with them and to make sure they get all the resources they need.
00:35:05
Songping
And the other type of project we're talking about here, it's more like ecosystem projects.
00:35:05
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mmhmm.
00:35:12
Songping
projects, LFT projects, or RWA like those they are profit driven or at least they they are like strategic kind of projects are seeking like what is a user's assets. So this more like webbing is more light to the how to share support from the NGG, like the entity I'm working for.
00:35:35
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm hmm.
00:35:37
Songping
So we we do have like eco growth team, like more BD type like a team. ah So working with those projects. So we we also like how to share ah receive kind of proposals from them like or sometimes ah my colleagues kind of approach them progressively and they're talking about like specific kind of projects that we think they should build on Neo or on NeoX. Then it comes to whether it's financially like support grants or like marketing support or like community kind of
00:36:14
Songping
um help them to to get to see the users, et cetera. So we're always, how to say, ah trying to help them to succeed and set root in the ecosystem.
00:36:28
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, I think i think that's ah that's very clear. so and Thanks both for explaining because I always wonder what the relationship between the foundation and and the project is and how it kind of works. um And yeah, I mean, when it comes to Neo 3J, I think, I mean, the the benefits are clear right from both sides because you you're basically, you're building like a um you're building a ah tool to simplify the development of Neo projects, which makes it, you know, obviously easier for adoption and growth. So you can definitely see the implications of something like that.
00:37:02
Guil
Yeah, it's it's it's a kind of, it's it's kind of like in in our case, in Xlabs case, um it's something that, for example, the UltraJ is a Java compiler, Java SDK, which is a public good.
00:37:14
Guil
We call it public good.
00:37:15
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:37:16
Guil
So it's like something that ah is a tooling, it's infrastructure, it's going to serve everyone. It's like building asphalt on the streets. So we'll just put it asphalt there.
00:37:27
Guil
Like, we're going to do all the pavement that people can go with their cars and, you know, don't, like, enter the quality of the streets and, yeah, that's ah that's that's the sponsor. But also, the the projects that want to build, which are non-profit, for profit, let's put this way, different projects or NFTs or whatever, they they have ah different ways how they can apply. For example, they have a uh, some programs, um, run by, let's say the foundation or the N G N G D, uh, with some budget dedicated to it.
00:38:07
Guil
Um, but also we have a battle, uh, like within this case, it's it's called grand chairs. A grand chairs is a battle from the community, uh, that, um, there's a treasury and then people like.
00:38:15
CyberPunkMetalHead
Okay.
00:38:22
Guil
let's say grassroots projects, ah searching for a smaller amounts, just to bootstrap something, can go there, make a proposal to the DAO. And then after a period of discussion, they get funding. So these four projects, smaller amounts, like 5K, 10K, 15K, like 20, max, ah some some sort of like this. And you know this is run by the community, meaning that NGD or Neo Foundation are not the sole this is a makers in there.
00:38:54
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right. So in a sense, like a small kind of version of the DAO back in a day, but with... Yeah.
00:39:01
Guil
Exactly, exactly.
00:39:04
CyberPunkMetalHead
That's cool. that's That's a cool idea. um I like that. I feel like, oh, it's always nice leaving letting the community kind of decide what to fund. And it it also makes it fun, you know especially if there's not too much risk or too much incentive to exploit the system. That's that's also you know good to have for sure.
00:39:24
Guil
Yes.
00:39:26
CyberPunkMetalHead
So when it comes to NeoX, because you're mentioning that you've recently launched that and and congratulations, I think that's fantastic.
NeoX Interoperability & MEV Resistance
00:39:32
CyberPunkMetalHead
I wanted to explore the interoperability of NeoX and Neo. Do the ah two networks talk to each other? Or if not, is there a plan? And if yes, how does that kind of relationship work?
00:39:45
Guil
Yeah, great question. I'm going to take this one or something. a Great question, actually, because we we have a we have like ah um a so Because ah a lot of people ask us, Gil, look, interoperability is important. How can I get like assets? Especially because we're not meeting any kind of token in the UX. So all the tokens, like GaaS and Neo, the generation of GaaS, for example, and the new token will stay in the main
00:40:21
Guil
let's say, in in new and 3. So we're not minting anything new on on on new X. So that's why having this layer, this native bridge is important. So we ah it's already operative ah on mainnet. We already have this native bridge. ah It's developed ah partially by Xlabs team in collaboration, of course, to Ngd in in you know other entities and new species.
00:40:49
Guil
and um ah So basically, right now, you can ah bridge GAS from new N3 and in new X. We are rolling out, ah basically, today, new features to the to the bridge, um which is ah bridging any year C20 tokens or NAP17 tokens. ah ah That's, of course, the tokens have to be whitelisted there.
00:41:18
Guil
ah like ah audited, et cetera, but we're rolling out this this feature. So yeah, in the future, I think we we we we're going to add more interpretability factors to to the native bridge, ah maybe NFTs, or let's say, arbitrary data messages. you Maybe, for example, if you want to invoke a smart contract ah inbux but for new in new entry,
00:41:47
Guil
ah With a new N3 wallet, you can invoke ah by interacting with our bridge. So I mean, this this kind of features, it's in our roadmap. I cannot make promises on this stage. Otherwise, I'm going to put like um my like our team under so much pressure. But it's coming. It's coming. And I think, like ah ah why call a native bridge? Because that are we we had to change a bit um on new acts, the the the let's say, the node ah to have this bridge in in in the in the core like as a precompiled smart contracts.
00:42:27
Guil
so it's ah it's really So this bridge is is is really inherent ah ah and embedded to the to both chains. And yeah, it's it's you're going you're going to stay there for for some time. And you're going to be maintained in the long term ah by by our ecosystem.
00:42:47
Songping
Yeah, tip just to add it really quick. I think Gil did a very great job like explaining in depth, like how it works. I think just high level, like what we'll be doing is like definitely a multi-chain strategy.
00:43:00
Songping
show the existing N3 chain as our main chain. And we already have a lot of assets and projects kind of ah landing on it. And with new X, it's a new kind of EVM compatible side chain. And um later on, I mean, the new X, N3, they will be connected, a native bridge. And meanwhile, later on,
00:43:25
Songping
we will bridge NeoX with other EVM chains. And so NeoX serve as a gateway between your ecosystem to the bigger EVM of words. So in the end, the assets will all like ah float freely. and But all those different chains will be more like, how do you say, have their own kind of more unique tech stack.
00:43:51
Songping
So um later on, I think in our founders kind of um um idea sharing, he's foresee a problem like now is EVM based later on, maybe Watson or other like VM, like there may be other like how to say tech stack can be their own chain. But in the end, the assets will all kind of flow freely. Yeah.
00:44:14
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, and I think that's the that's the ultimate ah you know ideal there, just having an interconnected Web3 that you don't really spend that much as a user, you don't really spend that much time and effort trying to figure out which chain you're on and how do I bridge and how do I... You just want it to work and and it does seem like it's moving in that direction. ah I wanted to go back to the idea of ah um of of the ah native bridge that that you mentioned.
00:44:42
CyberPunkMetalHead
um So it does that work um in the way that a traditional bridge works as in I have this token on this chain and then I put it in this contract and it gets locked or burned and and it gets released in the other chain or is it more like the IBC protocol that we see in Cosmos like Cosmos using?
00:45:01
Guil
Yeah, so so it's ah it's it's more in the traditional way in the in the sense that this is, how can I say, ah we have like a set of validators, we have a a set of real layers, and then you just we lock the the the the assets in in one chain.
00:45:17
Songping
Thank
00:45:19
Guil
and then a release in order, and then it goes.
00:45:22
Songping
you.
00:45:23
Guil
The difference that the contracts, the contracts, the treasuries, where the tokens are locked, the owner are the validators of the chain.
00:45:38
Guil
So it means that the validators and who validate the blocks and who make governance decisions on the chains are the ones that have, let's say,
00:45:50
Guil
that have the the the capability not to not to release more assets or not, but to adjust some parameters, like, for example, increasing the fees or decreasing the fees of the bridge, or maybe pausing the bridge, or more like ah adding or removing or changing how the the you know the know some on the bridge they work.
00:45:55
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:46:14
Guil
But ah the the basic rules of the native, they they cannot be the They cannot be changed easily because it's native. it's we like When we release a piece of software, a node, let's say ah you know the the binary of the node, ah we we embedded some precompiled smart contracts there that it's it's native. You just have to run ah the the node and the read address will always be there with the same rules, et cetera.
00:46:45
Guil
Yeah, answer your question. It's it's more the the traditional way at the moment. But ah yeah, we're we're kind of open because we we we had to keep the ball rolling. We have to ah ah get a solution, a brief solution that is safe, that can be developed in a timely manner, that ah you know of getting bridging both chains, like the new N3 and the new X. So that's why we we chose you go to go to this direction. and
00:47:16
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, that that makes sense. Yeah, thanks for that. So you mentioned you both mentioned NFTs a couple of times, and um I just wanted to get your idea of NFTs as a technology, because it's undeniable there's many use cases there, but NFTs in the art world and art and collectibles, how much movement do you see a n of NFTs
NFT Market Decline & Future Potential
00:47:33
CyberPunkMetalHead
still? And do you reckon there's still a ah ah market there? Because from what I'm seeing and from what I've seen other people, it it seems like man, they've crashed so much. like They've gone down 94%. And on average, the average NFT owner is down 44%. So if you're to put a hamster on a wheel trading random you know meme coins, they'd be making probably more money than the average NFT holder. So with that in mind, I just wanted to get your guy's idea or your guy's focus ah on on that segment of the crypto market.
00:48:12
CyberPunkMetalHead
And if you think it can ever recover.
00:48:18
Songping
i I think I can take this one first. yeah So um I'm actually like, how do you say um I'm ah more like, ah how to say not um investor or like trader for NFT type holder.
00:48:38
Songping
I'm more like, oh, I like this culture. I purely want to spend money and to like reward as this artist type.
00:48:46
CyberPunkMetalHead
I say Sure.
00:48:47
Songping
So I i personally cherish the value of this art, like this piece of art. And it's okay for me, like as long as it's a reasonable price and Of course, I won't like afford a lot for for one like p i profile like picture.
00:49:06
Songping
But I do feel like if I really like the community is very resonate, and I'm willing just to spend it as a kind consuming kind of behavior.
00:49:09
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm hmm.
00:49:16
Songping
but um On the other side, I actually feel like there is like um a use case or like ah dear instead of just pure investment kind of value of NFT. I mean, in our community, there is actually this NFI kind of technology. So we we call it non-fungible item. It's a very interesting experiment. like So what's happening is basically we're doing this um
00:49:48
Songping
How do you say, excavation? So it's a physical i item, but yes, I personally feel it's a very interesting like experimental bridging.
00:49:52
CyberPunkMetalHead
Is that the ring that you're showing? Huh.
00:50:00
Songping
So it's a digital and the physical words and words. So what happened is like.
00:50:06
CyberPunkMetalHead
I thought you were going to go invisible there for a second when you put it on.
00:50:08
Guil
Yeah,
00:50:14
CyberPunkMetalHead
Sorry about that.
00:50:15
Guil
yeah that's true.
00:50:17
Songping
I was like, I need to show off the ring.
00:50:17
CyberPunkMetalHead
ah
00:50:20
Songping
So I do feel like the NFT is somehow your digital identity. So it's a it's your your proof of certain kind of community belonging or something.
00:50:32
Songping
And when when we have the, of course, you need to add on other technology, example, like NFC or like encryption, like you kind of need to all work together. And it can achieve like, for example, the key for a hotel, or like a ring, like ah ah ownership, like ah how do you say ah authorization kind of purpose in the real world, real life. Yes. So I think later on, like ah there will be like innovation in terms of like the NFT or NFT related technology because I mean, it's non-fungible items. So like it must be something it can help.
00:51:18
Songping
And we probably know the answer, but we don't really know which problems are going to solve.
00:51:24
Guil
yeah Yeah, I mean, I think i think so so.
00:51:24
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah.
00:51:25
Songping
Yeah.
00:51:29
Guil
Well, I hope that the market recovers. I hope i read you know because I have some NFTs and also I really hope that you're going to recover. But ah but the the point is the point here is I'm going to resonate what some people said.
00:51:44
Guil
I think the utility of NFTs are binding to items. you know as it happens in one of the projects in a new ecosystem called item systems. So these guys like gave a different angle in binding NFTs to physical items. And then the fusion of both are what we call a non-fungible item, NFI. So I think like giving giving a bit more utility, that's ah where the comeback of what we call NFTs will happen.
00:52:18
Guil
ah yeah and i'm I'm just holding here like one of the the rings that this project ah distributed ah in the in in Neo booth in token 2049.
00:52:31
Guil
Also, there was another thing called Block Spirits game, which is basically a card.
00:52:37
CyberPunkMetalHead
Okay.
00:52:39
Guil
that you could tap skin in your mobile phone, and then you could challenge another player and then play a game based on a physical object that is basically your identity. And then the game happens on-chain, there's a smart contract, et cetera. So this kind of utility, I think it will be the comeback of NFTs in the future and hopefully the price will go up.
00:53:06
CyberPunkMetalHead
but So what is the ring do currently?
00:53:09
Guil
Oh, yeah. there ring there is the rik can You can ah tap in point of sales. ah like For example, in conferences, like when if Neo does an activation in the booth, let's say, in consensus conference or token49.
00:53:16
CyberPunkMetalHead
OK.
00:53:27
Guil
So if you bring your ring and you're going to have like the poop point of sale there, you can just come with your ring, tap scan. And then maybe be you're going to get some points or you're going to get some perks.
00:53:40
Guil
You can gamify the experience because you're going to prove cryptographically because this ring is able to sign something. So like when you tap scan, this ring signs something um like a challenge, let's put it this way.
00:53:50
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:53:54
Guil
And then you can prove, oh, I'm the physical owner of something that was distributed, i I don't know, in a previous conference. And now I'm coming back. Can you give me some swag, for example? Or can you give me a free beer? you know can You can give me fine experience ah and give you some utility using physical objects. I think that's that's a cool part of it.
00:54:15
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, no there's definitely some utility there. So there's definitely, and I do feel like in gaming that there's there's going to be a lot more utility. You could do some really amazing thing with NFTs in gaming. You could get you could ah create tokens for items that are tradable in other games. You can create standardized items that you can create interconnected worlds. Like there's so much that you can still be built on there. um And it's fantastic to see. I do hope ah for for the sake of your back, Gil, that NFTs are going to be making a comeback.
00:54:45
Guil
Exactly.
00:54:46
CyberPunkMetalHead
um I just I happened to work in in art during the time where the NFT boom took place and I've seen um like every other gallery around and big um auction houses like Christie's they launched their NFT web 3 platform and you know the hype was mental it was crazy um and it just feels like we've we've fallen to you know um ah substantial amount from from from those heights.
00:55:12
CyberPunkMetalHead
But hey, you never know. This market's ah irrational and unpredictable for for ah ah for a reason.
00:55:17
Guil
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Let's see what happens.
00:55:23
CyberPunkMetalHead
Exactly. Let's see. I'm just crossing my fingers high in my back now. um So what do you guys have in store for the
Neo's Grind Hackathon & Industry Collaborations
00:55:30
CyberPunkMetalHead
future? Any cool releases that you want to tease and anything that um that people might want to know about?
00:55:41
Guil
I have some points or something. Like, should I go first, or you want to jump in?
00:55:47
Songping
Probably we're talking about the same thing. I can just like, yeah, ah it's actually a thing ongoing.
00:55:50
Guil
Exactly. Yeah, i go ahead.
00:55:54
Songping
So NIO is doing the grind hacksaw.
00:55:57
Guil
Yes.
00:55:58
Songping
So yeah, we've been doing this like, yeah, we've been doing this like for a long time.
00:56:00
CyberPunkMetalHead
Love the name.
00:56:04
Songping
Like this is the fourth year in a row. So um like, as I said at the very beginning, NIO has a very good habit. being friendly to developer. So um we're we're always doing hack songs and trying to provide the easy access for those like people who are new in this study in this industry who want to test to their business ideas. And so the uniqueness of this time is we are actually teaming up with ah several major like industry players, so include iOSG,
00:56:38
Songping
uh uh four side adventure big gate uh and also three laps so they they are the four like important co-host uh for the hacks of this time so what we yes interesting right yeah what no no no no i'm talking about the exchange big gate
00:56:50
CyberPunkMetalHead
Did you say Bill Gates? Well, wow. Yeah. Didn't that guy hate crypto like a few years ago?
00:57:00
CyberPunkMetalHead
Or did yeah did I get that wrong? Wasn't he like anti-crypto at some point? ah Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay.
00:57:11
Songping
ah No, no, no, no.
00:57:12
CyberPunkMetalHead
and I thought you said Bill Gates and I'm like, that guy's like, right.
00:57:14
Guil
I'm not.
00:57:16
Songping
That wouldn't make headlines tomorrow.
00:57:16
CyberPunkMetalHead
Okay.
00:57:17
CyberPunkMetalHead
bid gate Okay. Got you. Got you. Okay. That makes sense now.
00:57:20
Songping
yeah Yeah.
00:57:21
CyberPunkMetalHead
Thanks for clarifying.
00:57:22
Songping
So what we've been doing is basically we team up with incubator, accelerator, ah venture capital, and sent like ah exchanges.
00:57:33
Songping
So we as a layer one protocol. So basically what we've been covering is all those important kind of um a touch point for startups like ah during the so from zero to like um getting listed.
00:57:44
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm hmm.
00:57:51
Songping
So it is almost covers every major kind of milestone for ah for the growth of ah of a project. So what we are offering is basically a more direct access like for those projects.
00:58:07
Songping
So we will want to make sure they have the proper kind of connections and also the ah proper resource they want, like the to foster them, to help them to succeed.
00:58:18
Songping
So as the kind of, how to say rewards ah for the HEXON winners, so they get a chance to, aside of the HEXON kind of prize, they also get a chance to talk to all those like important partners directly and get access to their kind of grants program and the four big gate bit the exchange, they also got chance to enter their fast track to be listed.
00:58:29
CyberPunkMetalHead
Mm hmm.
00:58:47
Songping
Yeah.
00:58:47
CyberPunkMetalHead
So it's a physical hackathon.
00:58:49
Songping
No, it's not actually.
00:58:51
CyberPunkMetalHead
It's and it's online. OK.
00:58:52
Songping
Yeah, it's a virtual hack zone, but we will have like a physical kind of events to promote it. Yeah.
00:59:00
CyberPunkMetalHead
That's very cool. Love a hackathon. um ah when When's it going to take place and where can people register?
00:59:06
Songping
Uh, it actually started like, uh, last week. So, uh, with the submission deadline will be second of December.
00:59:11
CyberPunkMetalHead
Okay.
00:59:14
Songping
So, uh, uh, for people who are interested, they can visit, uh, the hack zone, uh, website it's grind g r i n d dot neo doc.
00:59:16
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
00:59:27
CyberPunkMetalHead
so That's a brilliant subdomain name.
00:59:30
Guil
Yes, grind is good. Yeah.
00:59:32
CyberPunkMetalHead
ah did Did you have anything to add, Gil?
00:59:33
Songping
Yeah.
00:59:35
Guil
Yes, absolutely. Dagaton is a big thing, of course. But actually, I have ah have a have like some some points here about new acts and where we're going. Actually, actually we are trying very hard to ah release ah what a big, big feature that very few other chains are ah working right now on. And I mean, I think like nobody, I think Neo is one of the first working on this, which is um we we will roll out an empty MEV resistance. So basically basically, there's a lot of like,
01:00:16
Guil
The majority of EVM chains out there, we have defined protocols like woodswap and others. But there are a lot of NEV bots taking advantage of users, you know extracting value. And most ah problemmaticically problematic is that users don't know about it. they're like You just go go into a swap, and then when you see, yeah,
01:00:41
Guil
where my money, there was like a lot of a gap. And that's because of MEV and ah you know the collusion of bad actors, let's say. So we've thought about this problem for a long time. And we decide, OK, we have to solve it. And basically, we're we're rolling out this feature of MEV resistance in a new axe EVM sidechain.
01:01:05
Guil
um Basically, I'm not going to go into details here, Andrej, but we're going to have like two main pools, one which is an encrypted main pool, another a one which is an encrypted main pool, and the the the transactions will only be revealed when once the the block is final. so I think this this is really good ah for you know to attract the five projects and also gains to our chain because one of our goals with NeoX is to become a fairer chain.
01:01:39
Guil
So where you can get more, ah like it it's just about everything about being fair with our users.
01:01:39
CyberPunkMetalHead
Right.
01:01:47
Guil
And I think like this feature plays a ah central role on that. We're pretty excited. We're pretty excited. Our team worked a lot on that. And it will will be rolled out in quarter four this year.
01:01:59
Guil
So we stay tuned. And this is, I mean, the the the the projects that are building The defy things in our in Hackathon will certainly benefit ah you know with this this feature in the future that are going to roll out. So this is one of the the biggest things that are coming up next in Q1.4 for us.
01:02:21
CyberPunkMetalHead
thats That's fantastic. you know I always thought that the reason that MEV happens is because obviously the nodes have access to the mempool and then they can pick and choose with transactions to front-run or to to take from the mempool.
01:02:32
Guil
yep
01:02:34
CyberPunkMetalHead
I always thought, why can't we have some kind of system as you know if you think about it as a relational database or a regular database where you can have a lock on something and something doesn't happen at another user. you know like You could sequentially do this without allowing mempool participants to pick and choose.
01:02:52
Guil
Yeah, no, that that's ah that's ah I think i your line of thinking is right. so But why do we the the technique that we've done is, OK, it's all about providing the options to our users. underra like if you If you don't want to to use this anti-media resistance, you can still submit your transaction you know to unencrypted mental, pay less fees. It will be very cheap. you know It is very cheap ah in new acts to submit transactions.
01:03:22
Guil
But if you want a bit more safety, a bit more fair ecosystem to do trade swaps, interact with the five protocols, you can use an encrypted main pool where you encrypt your transaction, submit to it.
01:03:37
Guil
Of course, gonna pay you're going to pay higher fees for the service, but I think it's worth it.
01:03:41
CyberPunkMetalHead
Alright.
01:03:43
Guil
And then once it's encrypted, we run We run our consensus and include ah like the transactions in in in the block. ah In the validators, we're not going to know what they're including until it becomes final. so like this This prevents some, let's say, a collusion between bots and validators ah to front run and to you know ah get advantage of on things.
01:04:11
Guil
i think I think this is a pretty big. And ah in the best of my knowledge, I just know, I just can count and maybe in my fingers, the the projects out there that are going towards this empty and easy resistance because it's not a very easy problem to to solve. ah You know, we've been working for like a bit more than one year now.
01:04:34
CyberPunkMetalHead
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And like I said, I think it's fantastic and and I wish you guys all the best with that. um There's one other project that I've heard they're doing something similar and it's Bancor with their Carbon DeFi. They're providing some... So they're moving away from like market makers with with Carbon DeFi and they're doing more like actual um sort of order book like transactions. And obviously that disincentivizes any MEV from taking place indirectly, which is another kind of way of doing that, I guess. um But yeah, it's really fun to see it. And it's fantastic to see it. And I think the rest of this year and next year are going to be fantastic for crypto. um And I'm really looking forward to see all of the new applications and um the hackathon as well. I hope it goes swimmingly.
01:05:22
Guil
Amazing.
01:05:22
Songping
Thank you.
01:05:23
CyberPunkMetalHead
Well, thank you guys for coming on. I think it's been a really fantastic conversation. And um let's keep in touch. Maybe post the the rollout. I would really like to see how that went and what you guys have installed next.
01:05:35
Songping
Cool.
01:05:35
Guil
Absolutely. Absolutely. We're going to keep in touch.
01:05:36
Songping
Thank you. Thank you for having us. Yeah.
01:05:39
Guil
Thanks for having us. and Thank you.
01:05:41
CyberPunkMetalHead
Nice one, guys. Have a lovely rest of your day.
01:05:43
Guil
Cheers.
01:05:43
Songping
You too.
01:05:43
CyberPunkMetalHead
Bye.
01:05:44
Guil
Take care. See you.
01:05:44
Songping
Yeah.
01:05:45
Songping
Thank you. but
01:05:45
Guil
Bye-bye.