Charles Adkins is CEO of Hedera Foundation. He previously served as President of Hedera Hashgraph, LLC. Charles is a seasoned leader with years of experience in the blockchain and crypto space, having previously worked at Polygon Labs and Aptos.

Hedera’s Governance Model and Council Structure

Charles emphasized Hedera’s governance framework as a critical differentiator. The Hedera Governing Council, composed of 39 global enterprises and institutions, ensures decentralized decision-making. Adkins clarified that no single entity controls the network, with council members rotating every three years to prevent centralization. This structure, he argued, fosters stability and long-term trust for enterprises exploring blockchain solutions.

Adkins also addressed critiques of the council model, acknowledging that critics often conflate “permissioned” governance with “centralized” control. He countered that Hedera’s permissionless network allows anyone to participate as users or node operators, while governance remains in the hands of vetted organizations to mitigate risks like protocol capture.

A significant portion of the discussion focused on Hedera’s energy efficiency. Adkins highlighted its hashgraph consensus algorithm, which eliminates proof-of-work mining. According to third-party audits, Hedera’s carbon footprint is “negligible” compared to traditional blockchains. This efficiency, he noted, aligns with growing enterprise demand for sustainable solutions, particularly in industries like supply chain and ESG reporting.

The host raised questions about scalability trade-offs, but Adkins asserted that hashgraph’s asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance (aBFT) ensures high throughput (10,000+ transactions per second) without compromising security. He cited partnerships with organizations like the World Economic Forum and the Linux Foundation as validation of Hedera’s technical rigor.

When asked about competition from Ethereum or Solana, Adkins distinguished Hedera’s focus on regulated industries. “We’re not trying to be everything to everyone,” he said, pointing to Hedera’s native compliance tools, such as optional KYC for token issuers. He also discussed the importance of stablecoins for enterprise payments, revealing that Hedera is working with multiple issuers to launch compliant stablecoin solutions.

DeFi and Developer Ecosystem Growth

Despite Hedera’s enterprise focus, Adkins acknowledged the need to cultivate a robust DeFi ecosystem. He highlighted recent growth in Total Value Locked (TVL) and developer activity, attributing this momentum to grants from the Hedera Foundation and partnerships with platforms like Karate Labs for no-code smart contracts.

The host pressed on whether Hedera’s regulatory-friendly approach might deter DeFi purists. Adkins responded that transparency and compliance are inevitable as blockchain matures. “The industry is moving beyond ‘Wild West’ experimentation,” he said, adding that Hedera aims to balance innovation with real-world legal frameworks.

Regulatory Challenges and Future Roadmap

Adkins expressed cautious optimism about global crypto regulation, praising the EU’s MiCA framework for providing clarity. However, he criticized the U.S.’s enforcement-heavy approach, arguing it stifles innovation. Looking ahead, he teased upcoming upgrades to Hedera’s smart contract engine and expanded support for privacy-preserving applications like zero-knowledge proofs.

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#40 - Consensus mechanisms, community building and AI with Charles Adkins | Hedera Hashgraph

Gabriele Giancola is the CEO and co-founder of Qiibee, a blockchain-based loyalty infrastructure platform. Qiibee focuses on streamlining how brands manage customer engagement through decentralized solutions.

Organic vs Mainstream Media

The host opened the podcast by emphasizing the growing preference for organic, unscripted dialogue over formulaic media formats. He criticized mainstream outlets for perpetuating a disconnect between paid promotions and genuine consumer sentiment, citing the gaming industry’s backlash against Dragon Age: Veil Guard as an example. The game faced criticism for inserting themes like gender fluidity into a dark fantasy universe, sparking debates about authenticity versus forced inclusivity.

Both speakers highlighted how decentralized platforms like podcasts and YouTube allow unfiltered opinions to thrive, fostering trust that traditional advertising struggles to replicate.

Insights into the Loyalty Market

Gabriele outlined the loyalty industry’s staggering scale, citing a Boston Consulting Group report revealing $500 billion in unused loyalty points globally. Legacy systems, however, remain fragmented: airlines, banks, and retailers operate isolated programs, leading to administrative inefficiencies and poor user experiences. For instance, converting credit card points to airline miles can take days, often rendering them useless for last-minute bookings.

Qiibee’s blockchain infrastructure addresses these pain points by tokenizing loyalty currencies on a private Ethereum-based chain. This eliminates reconciliation delays between partners, as transactions settle instantly on a shared ledger. Gabriele stressed that airlines and brands prioritize control over their programs, making interoperability—not speculative trading—the immediate focus.

Tokenizing Loyalty Bonuses

While tokenizing loyalty points could theoretically enable free-market trading, Gabriele acknowledged significant hurdles. For example, United Airlines’ 100 million loyalty members would face chaos if mile values fluctuated wildly. Regulatory concerns and brand integrity also deter open exchanges. Instead, Qiibee emphasizes tokenization as a tool for seamless partner integrations, letting brands retain control while improving liquidity.

The discussion touched on regulatory shifts, such as stricter rules around point devaluation and expiration dates. Gabriele noted that regulators increasingly recognize loyalty points as “purchasing power,” pushing brands toward fairer practices.

The upcoming Qiibee token will serve dual purposes: paying gas fees on its blockchain and unlocking tiered rewards (e.g., gift cards, crypto conversions) via staking.

AI, Robotics, and the Human Element

The conversation shifted to AI’s role in content creation and trading. While both praised tools like ChatGPT for drafting emails or reports, they warned against over-reliance. The host criticized AI-generated articles for diluting SEO value and contributing to the “dead internet” theory—a landscape dominated by bot interactions.

Gabriele expressed cautious optimism about robotics, citing potential benefits for elderly care but doubting machines could replicate human empathy. Elon Musk’s vision of outnumbering humans with robots in a decade sparked skepticism, though both agreed affordability and practicality would drive adoption.

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#39 - Tokenizing Loyalty Points, Mainstream Media and AI with Gabriele Giancola

Mounir is the founder of ParaSwap, a DeFi aggregator that consolidates liquidity from decentralized exchanges and lending protocols. ParaSwap focuses on advancing on-chain trading efficiency and user experience.

ParaSwap Delta’s Beta Launch and Roadmap

Mounir discussed the beta release of ParaSwap Delta, an intent-centric trading product designed to minimize MEV (Maximal Extractable Value) risks and simplify DeFi interactions. Currently, in a closed beta phase, Delta is accessible only through ParaSwap’s interface to allow for iterative improvements before a broader V2 launch. This version will introduce breaking changes to smart contracts and APIs, with plans to open access to external partners once stability is confirmed.

Mounir emphasized Delta’s use of private transaction routing to avoid public mempools, leveraging tools like Blink to send transactions directly to block builders. This approach reduces exposure to front-running and sandwich attacks, critical pain points in decentralized trading.

The Technical Engine Behind DEX Aggregation

ParaSwap’s core aggregation technology relies on DexLib, an open-source TypeScript library that standardizes integrations with decentralized exchanges (DEXs) like Uniswap and Balancer. Instead of querying blockchain nodes in real time—a resource-intensive process—ParaSwap monitors liquidity pools by tracking on-chain events (e.g., swaps, deposits) and maintains a live database of token balances. This allows the platform to compute optimal trade paths in milliseconds using algorithms that factor in slippage, gas costs, and multi-hop routes.

Mounir highlighted the challenges of scaling this system, particularly with concentrated liquidity models like Uniswap v3. DexLib’s modular design lets developers reuse code for common operations, fostering collaboration across DeFi projects. Despite TypeScript’s performance limitations, Mounir defended its use for rapid iteration, though he acknowledged interest in Rust for future optimizations.

By routing transactions through private channels, Delta bypasses traditional mempools, reducing MEV opportunities. Mounir noted parallels with traditional finance’s “best execution” standards, underscoring DeFi’s maturation toward prioritizing both price and execution quality.

Gas Abstraction and User Experience

ParaSwap aims to abstract gas fees entirely, allowing users to pay transaction costs directly from their swapped tokens. For example, swapping USDC for ETH would deduct gas fees from the USDC amount, eliminating the need to hold native tokens like ETH for gas. This approach mirrors centralized exchanges’ simplicity, lowering barriers for non-technical users.

Mounir acknowledged edge cases—such as trades smaller than gas costs—but argued most users benefit from streamlined interactions. Future iterations could integrate market makers who bake gas costs into quoted prices, further simplifying the process.

Broader Implications for Decentralized Finance

The conversation concluded with reflections on DeFi’s societal impact. Mounir and the host discussed how self-custody and censorship resistance align with broader ideals of financial sovereignty, contrasting sharply with centralized systems’ inefficiencies. While acknowledging that centralized exchanges will coexist with DeFi.

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Previous Episode [https://proofoftalk.show/episodes/verifiable-decentralised-compute-and-rwa-tokenisation-with-blane-sims/]

#38 - DeFi Trading, Decentralised Exchanges and MEV Resistant solutions

GeeZee, Head of Gaming from Mantle, a low-cost Ethereum rollup, shares insights on the latest gaming innovations. Alan is the Founder of MetaCene, a Web3 MMORPG.

Introduction

A recent discussion brought together perspectives on how blockchain technology is reshaping the gaming space. Two core themes took center stage: the importance of building genuinely enjoyable games and the role of decentralization in empowering players. The conversation offered insights into how certain Web3 implementations failed early on, why new titles are taking a different approach, and how developers are striving to make gamers’ lives easier by seamlessly integrating blockchain features.

From Magic: The Gathering to Slay the Spire

Early gaming experiences helped shape the guests’ understanding of what makes a game fun. Trading card games (TCGs), including Magic: The Gathering, and popular deck builders like Slay the Spire came up as favorites.

Observations on Game Hardware

The group touched briefly on competitive gaming hardware and how it provides advantages or leads to debates over fair play. A keyboard feature known as “Snap Tops” came up as an example: it shortens the time between pressing different directional inputs, granting a slight competitive edge. They also acknowledged that hardware or software “cheats” remain a major frustration in online play—developers ban them, but new workarounds emerge constantly.

Skepticism of blockchain-based gaming was another key topic. Early Play-to-Earn experiments often came off as little more than pyramid schemes, driving many to doubt the viability of Web3 games. The conversation stressed that real value only comes from creating a solid, engaging experience.

The group also pointed out that major publishers once tried squeezing NFTs into existing products without meaningful gameplay benefits, which increased suspicion among traditional gamers.

Several specifics emerged on how MetaCene’s team aims to blend compelling MMO gameplay with on-chain possibilities. Core gameplay remains traditional: questing, boss fights, PvE and PvP modes, and character progression.

A flexible wallet system ensures that newcomers can simply log in with an email and only deal with token transfers or fees when they decide to move valuable items on-chain. Rather than interrupting the flow of combat by popping up transaction requests, NFTs reside in the game’s internal system. Once an asset becomes truly special, a player can choose to mint it on Mantle’s network.

One participant highlighted a future “server fight” feature in MetaCene, where different organizations or groups can manage their own servers, attract new players, and earn a share of the revenue. This concept underscores the broader idea: blockchain is not meant to weigh down gameplay with fees and friction. Instead, it can expand game experiences by giving players partial ownership and aligning their incentives with the game’s success.

Marketing Challenges and Future Possibilities

Traditional mobile ads rely on massive networks like Google, Facebook, and ByteDance for user acquisition, often leading to clickbait ads that don’t accurately represent the product. In a blockchain-powered ecosystem, developers foresee better targeting. With user activities publicly recorded, studios can accurately tailor their ads instead of relying on big data monopolies. This opens the door to ads that genuinely match a gamer’s preferences rather than tricking them with misleading videos.

Visit Mantle [https://www.mantle.xyz/]

Play MetaCene [https://www.metacene.io/]

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#37 - Gaming, Blockchain and mobile games advertising 

Blane is the Chief Product Officer at Truebit. He focuses on building verifiable compute solutions that bring greater trust to blockchain-based systems.

The industry has produced solutions for scaling, tokenizing assets, and integrating artificial intelligence, but ensuring security and authenticity remains a core challenge. Blane from Truebit discusses how verification layers and decentralized compute can bolster trust, reduce risk, and streamline complex automated transactions.

Securing Data Beyond the Blockchain

The conversation begins with a reminder that high-value crypto participants can fall victim to scams and phishing attempts. These incidents, often driven by social engineering and fraudulent requests for signatures, highlight a lingering issue: while the blockchain ledger is secure, the pathways that feed it information and instructions can be compromised. Many problems arise at the off-chain interface—where external data and code feed into smart contracts.

Traditional bridging and cross-chain operations, as well as interactions with external APIs and off-chain services, have repeatedly proven vulnerable. To address this, Blane explains that verification technology can certify both the data sources and the processes involved. By revealing how inputs are obtained and transformed before they reach the blockchain, solutions like Truebit’s verification layer help ensure that the final on-chain state reflects an untampered series of off-chain computations.

By using a decentralized network of nodes and game-theoretic mechanisms, verification platforms can spot discrepancies in computation results. As a result, developers gain a higher level of assurance without giving up the flexibility or complexity of off-chain workflows. This unlocks a future where Web2 and Web3 integration is safer and less reliant on trusting a single service provider.

Tokenization and Real-World Assets

Tokenization of real-world assets—stablecoins, commodities, even automobiles—has become a major trend, promising more efficient, accessible markets. Yet tokenization only works if participants trust that the underlying assets are truly what they claim to be. Without a verification layer, someone might claim reserves that do not exist or introduce false data that skews pricing or eligibility for trades.

Verification tools help confirm off-chain data, such as proof-of-reserves or asset conditions, before they enter the blockchain. This can extend from stablecoins backed by fiat to tokenized titles for vehicles or tokenized commodities. As processes shift toward automated AI-driven decision-making, having a reliable record of every off-chain step is critical.

The promise of automated workflows—like instructing an AI agent to purchase a car and finalize title transfers in a single afternoon—relies on complex webs of off-chain and on-chain interactions.

Several projects in closed beta have demonstrated the applicability of verification layers. Supply chain initiatives have used Truebit’s approach to ensure data integrity across multiple ledgers, and environmental projects leverage it to confirm the authenticity of carbon credit information. Similarly, financial tools build confidence by verifying the logic behind credit checks, stablecoin reserves, or complex remittances. All these examples show that, beyond theory, verifiable off-chain computation can underpin a multitude of real-world use cases.

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#36 - Verifiable decentralised compute and RWA tokenisation with Blane Sims

Ryan is the founder and CEO of Emergence, whose mission is to make blockchain more accessible and meaningful in video games. Ryan works to create a gaming ecosystem akin to a real-life metaverse.

The Impact of Narrative in Modern Gaming

Ryan pointed to games such as "Control," "Alan Wake," and "Life is Strange." He believes that gaming offers a unique medium for transmodal and networked narratives, allowing for more immersive and interactive experiences. Independent games like "What Remains of Edith Finch" have also captured seen success due to their experimental approaches to storytelling and consciousness.

The discussion touched on the challenges of adapting video games into other media. While some adaptations like "The Last of Us" and "Fallout" have been successful, others have fallen short due to a lack of understanding of the source material. Ryan emphasized the importance of creators deeply engaging with the original content to produce faithful and compelling adaptations.

Ryan observed that industries, including gaming, often become risk-averse when they reach the top, leading to pattern matching and a reluctance to innovate.

Initially working in Hollywood, Ryan became disillusioned with the industry's resistance to new and diverse storytelling. He shifted his focus to innovation, technology, and venture capital, recognizing that technology was beginning to outpace traditional entertainment mediums. This led him to become one of the first venture capitalists in Los Angeles to engage deeply with crypto and Web3 technologies.

Pioneering in Crypto and Web3 Technology

Ryan's early involvement in crypto began around the Ethereum ICO, where he recognized the potential for decentralized infrastructure to foster new ventures. He worked closely with industry pioneers and even assisted the Japanese government in understanding and integrating blockchain technology. His experiences underscored the importance of balancing decentralization and centralization for sustainable growth.

Ryan noted that extreme positions on either side carry risks. He believes that integrating decentralized technologies into existing systems requires nuance and consideration of all stakeholders, including governments and regulatory bodies.

Leveraging his background in both gaming and blockchain, Ryan founded Emergence to simplify Web3 integration for game developers. Emergence offers an SDK for game engines like Unreal Engine and Unity, allowing developers to easily incorporate blockchain features into their games. With over 50,000 downloads, the platform empowers developers to create innovative, decentralized gaming experiences.

Partnerships and Collaborations Shaping the Open Metaverse

Ryan emphasized the importance of storytelling and collaboration in building the open metaverse. Emergence has partnered with entities like Futureverse and influential figures such as Neal Stephenson, the author of "Snow Crash." These collaborations aim to create interoperable worlds and cinematic universes that extend beyond traditional gaming boundaries.

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#35 - Gaming industry trends, web3 gaming and the open metaverse

Guil is the founder of neow3j, a development toolkit that simplifies building dApps on the NEO ecosystem. Songping is a Senior Marketing Manager at NEO, the first non-EVM smart contract blockchain.

Blockchain's Role in Transparency and Voting Systems

The discussion opened with the impact of the U.S. election results on the cryptocurrency market. We looked at how platforms like Polymarket enable people to financially engage with political events through prediction markets. Guil pointed out that such platforms showcase a significant use case for blockchain technology, offering transparency and verifiable outcomes. The host expressed a desire to see blockchain integrated into national voting systems to ensure integrity and prevent fraud. Guil agreed, emphasizing that while the technology exists, widespread adoption requires educating both the public and policymakers to build trust in these systems.

Neo's Unique Approach to Developer Friendliness

A major focus of the conversation was Neo's commitment to making blockchain development accessible. Unlike platforms that limit developers to specific languages like Solidity, Neo allows smart contracts to be written in multiple mainstream programming languages, including Java, Python, and C#. Guil explained that this is achieved through compilers developed by the Neo community, which translate these languages into NeoVM bytecode. 

Guil and Songping emphasized that Neo's support for various programming languages is the result of collaborative efforts from global community teams. This decentralized development model encourages contributions from different regions and expertise, enhancing the robustness of the ecosystem. By not confining developers to a single language, Neo nurtures a diverse and dynamic community that can adapt to evolving technological demands.

We also discussed the launch of NeoX, an EVM-compatible sidechain designed to be MEV-resistant. NeoX represents Neo's multi-chain strategy, serving as a bridge between the Neo ecosystem and the broader EVM-compatible blockchain world. Guil detailed how a native bridge enables seamless interoperability between NeoN3, the main chain, and NeoX. This bridge allows assets and data to move freely between chains, enhancing user experience and breaking down barriers between different blockchain networks.

The Future of NFTs and Non-Fungible Items (NFIs)

Addressing the downturn in the NFT market, the conversation shifted to the potential of NFTs when combined with physical items, creating Non-Fungible Items (NFIs). Both guests expressed optimism about this integration, believing it could rejuvenate interest in NFTs. They shared examples of physical items like rings embedded with blockchain technology, which can interact with smart contracts to provide unique experiences—such as verifying identity at events or unlocking exclusive content in games. This blend of the digital and physical realms could open new avenues for utility and engagement in the NFT space.

A significant highlight was Neo's initiative to implement anti-MEV (Miner Extractable Value) resistance in NeoX. Guil explained that by utilizing encrypted mempools and delaying the revelation of transaction details until a block is finalized, NeoX aims to prevent malicious actors from exploiting users through front-running and other MEV strategies. This commitment to creating a fairer blockchain environment is expected to attract DeFi projects and users who are concerned about transaction security and integrity.

Towards the end of the conversation, Songping anonunced the ongoing Grind Hackathon, an event aimed at fostering innovation and supporting developers.

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#34 - Prediction Markets, Post Election Rally and the Foundation Business Model

Ally is the founder of Lilypad, a serverless distributed computing network for AI, ML and general compute. Stanley is a dedicated scientist, passionate about leveraging bioinformatics for transformative breakthroughs.

Embracing Decentralized Computing

Ally began her journey by running a café in Australia before diving into tech, mechatronics, and software engineering. Her eclectic experience led her from leading engineering projects to important roles at IBM and Protocol Labs, where her fascination with decentralized technologies was cemented. It was here she met Stanley, a bioinformatician and researcher, who would later join her in building Lilypad Tech.

Stanley’s path is equally unconventional. With a decade of experience in bioinformatics, his focus has primarily been on developing high-performance computing systems for medicine and research. His dedication to open science and connecting distributed computational power to global researchers aligned perfectly with Ally's vision. Together, they aim to solve critical bottlenecks in computing through their startup.

The Origin of Lilypad Tech

Lilypad Tech was born out of frustration with the limitations of traditional centralized computing systems. Ally and Stanley identified a critical need: researchers across various fields, especially those in academia and startups, lacked affordable and scalable access to computing power. Lilypad offers an on-demand distributed compute network that is open to both Web3 and Web2 communities. Through Lilypad, users can tap into available GPUs and CPUs for a wide range of tasks, from training machine learning models to simulating quantum algorithms.

Ally explains, “We’re creating a protocol where compute jobs are matched dynamically with nodes based on their specifications, ensuring optimized resource allocation without middlemen overheads.” This peer-to-peer marketplace for computational tasks leverages reputation systems and multi-verification methods to guarantee job quality and security, ultimately aiming to lower the cost of computing by significant margins compared to services like AWS.

The Vision of Lilypad: Modularity and Flexibility

One of the defining features of Lilypad Tech’s architecture is its modular approach, which allows for the integration of cutting-edge technologies as plugins. Ally emphasizes the potential for integrating privacy measures such as Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) into Lilypad’s protocol. While FHE remains computationally intensive, the modularity of Lilypad enables users to choose and implement privacy solutions as they become feasible.

Bioinformatics and Open Science: Stanley’s Story

For Stanley, Lilypad is not just a project but a platform to advance his lifelong mission of applying machine learning to biological research. He shares a compelling story about his early work in bioinformatics and its intersection with AI. From language processing at Google to developing high-performance computing for medical research, Stanley has witnessed first-hand how distributed systems can democratize scientific discovery.

One of Stanley’s current projects involves leveraging Lilypad’s computing power for genome sequencing, specifically through collaborations like the Human Pan Genome Consortium. He notes that the cost of sequencing a single T2T genome currently stands at half a million dollars, with only fifty patients having been sequenced globally. By drastically lowering these costs, Lilypad aims to accelerate breakthroughs in personalized medicine and genetic research.

Lilypad’s first incentivized testnet is already live, with plans to launch on the mainnet in early 2025.

Go to Lilypad [https://lilypad.tech]

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#33 - Serverless Distributed Compute, DNA Sequencing and Longevity

Nick is the founder of Chronicle Labs and former member of the Maker team. Nik is a strong believer in decentralization and transparency, especially when it comes to Oracles.

Building DeFi Infrastructure

Nick joined the founding team of Maker, venturing into a landscape where decentralized finance was virtually non-existent. There were no decentralized exchanges (DEXs), lending protocols, stablecoins, or the necessary infrastructure to support them—including oracles.

To bring their vision of an open financial system to life, Nick and his team had to build foundational tools from scratch. They developed the first DEX on Ethereum over a weekend and created the initial oracles alongside Mariano Conti. These early efforts were crucial in setting the stage for the vibrant DeFi ecosystem we see today.

Oracles act as an interoperability layer between blockchain networks and external data sources. Nick offers a simple analogy: "Imagine blockchain networks as your phone in airplane mode—cut off from the outside world. Oracles are what reconnect your phone, allowing it to access external information."

Despite their importance, oracles have often been the Achilles' heel of DeFi. Many hacks and exploits stem from oracle manipulation, underscoring the need for more robust solutions.

Observing stagnation in oracle innovation, Nick founded Chronicle Labs to tackle these challenges head-on. "Oracle innovation had clearly started to lag behind DeFi innovation," he notes. Chronicle aims to build a new oracle system from the ground up, focusing on transparency, security, and performance.

Key vulnerabilities in existing oracles include

Centralization Risks: If an oracle relies on a single data provider, it becomes a single point of failure.

Lack of Transparency: Users often have no way to verify where data originates or how it's processed.

Scalability Issues: High computational costs limit the number of validators and the frequency of updates.

Real World Assets (RWAs): The Next Frontier in DeFi

Nick is particularly excited about the integration of Real World Assets into DeFi. "DeFi needs a catalyst to go from billions to trillions in TVL," he asserts. RWAs bring a vast pool of high-quality collateral into the DeFi ecosystem, offering a path to unprecedented scalability.

Chronicle recently launched its RWA Oracle to facilitate this integration. Unlike traditional assets, RWAs aren't inherently transparent or verifiable on-chain. Chronicle's RWA Oracle bridges this gap by providing crucial information such as purchase dates, yields, maturity dates, and more.

An illustrative example of RWA integration is Chronicle's collaboration with M^0, a protocol that combines the best aspects of centralized issuers like Circle and decentralized platforms like MakerDAO.

How It Works: Users lock traditional financial assets, such as treasury bills, in a custodian account. They can then borrow stablecoins against these assets.The RWA Oracle independently verifies the assets held in custody, ensuring transparency and security. This model offers the scalability of centralized issuers while maintaining decentralization. It addresses limitations in both existing models and presents a sustainable way to scale DeFi.

Nick believes that for DeFi to realize its full potential, it must adhere to the core crypto ethos of transparency and decentralization. "If we scale DeFi in the wrong way, if we lose this core ethos, then what are we really doing here?" he asks rhetorically.

Chronicle Labs is committed to setting industry standards by: ensuring transparency, maintaining decentralization, and focusing on security.

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#32 - Oracles, DeFi and RWAs with Chronicle's Nik Kunkel

James is the COO at Unity Wallet, a self-custodial cryptocurrency wallet previously known as Savl. With a background in disruptive technologies, he offers valuable perspectives on the future of digital finance.

The Changing Landscape of Bitcoin ETFs

The discussion began with surprising statistics on Bitcoin ETF ownership, revealing that 76% are held by private individuals and only 24% by institutions. This challenges the common perception that ETFs are primarily for institutional investors. James views this as a positive development, providing legitimacy to Bitcoin and Ethereum while offering a low-fee entry point for investors wary of the technical hurdles associated with crypto.

Decentralization vs. Institutional Adoption

The conversation highlighted the paradox of early crypto ideals versus current trends. Originally, crypto was about self-custody and financial independence from traditional banks. Now, the enthusiasm for institutional players like BlackRock entering the space seems to contradict those early principles. James acknowledges this shift but notes that ETFs make practical sense for investors wanting to allocate a portion of their portfolio to crypto without dealing with self-custody complexities.

James's Journey from Digital Music to Crypto

James shared his experiences in the digital music industry, where he launched one of the first legal music download services before Napster's rise. His involvement in anti-piracy gave him early insight into how systems such as BitTorrent can disrupt traditional industries. Living on Wall Street during the 2008 financial crisis and witnessing the Occupy Wall Street movement further fueled his interest in Bitcoin as an egalitarian financial solution.

Drawing parallels between the music industry's battle against piracy and the crypto world, James emphasized that user experience is key. Attempts to curb piracy through restrictive measures often backfired by making legal products less attractive than pirated versions. Similarly, in crypto, creating user-friendly platforms is essential to encourage legitimate participation.

Unity Wallet was conceived to address shortcomings in existing crypto wallets, particularly in user interface and self-custody features. James explained that many wallets were not intuitive and lacked true ownership functionalities. Unity Wallet aims to provide a robust, user-friendly experience while allowing users to operate fully in the DeFi space. Focusing on the top 250 coins, it offers services like staking and partnerships that enable spending crypto on everyday items like Netflix subscriptions and mobile top-ups.

Unity Wallet integrates social elements, including an end-to-end encrypted messenger and a community platform for users to engage and share content. These features aim to build a sense of community and make the crypto experience more interactive and secure.

The wallet addresses the challenges of navigating multiple blockchain networks by allowing users to select from various chains within the app. While emphasizing user responsibility, Unity Wallet provides warnings and intuitive interfaces to minimize the risk of errors when transacting across different blockchains.

The Future of Digital Wallets

James envisions significant growth in digital wallets, especially in unbanked regions where mobile phones are prevalent. He predicts a convergence of traditional finance and DeFi, with wallets becoming central to everyday financial activities. This shift could democratize access to financial services globally.

#31 - Piracy, Music and Cryptocurrency self-custody

Proof of Talk is a technology-focused cryptocurrency podcast where we invite leaders and builders in the space to discuss their experiences in the industry and the projects they're developing.

Proof of Talk is the definitive cryptocurrency podcast for tech enthusiasts, builders, and entrepreneurs with a "tinkerer" mindset, and anyone who wants to stay up to date with the latest blockchain innovations and products.

Hosted by Andrei, a seasoned expert in the cryptocurrency space since 2017 and the co-founder of the algorithmic cryptocurrency trading platform Aesir [https://aesircrypto.com], Proof of Talk delivers unparalleled insights and expertise from the forefront of the crypto world.

Proof of Talk: The Cryptocurrency Podcast

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