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#39 - Tokenizing Loyalty Points, Mainstream Media and AI with Gabriele Giancola
51 Plays14 days ago
Gabriele Giancola is the CEO and co-founder of Qiibee, a blockchain-based loyalty infrastructure platform. Qiibee focuses on streamlining how brands manage customer engagement through decentralized solutions.
Organic vs Mainstream Media
The host opened the podcast by emphasizing the growing preference for organic, unscripted dialogue over formulaic media formats. He criticized mainstream outlets for perpetuating a disconnect between paid promotions and genuine consumer sentiment, citing the gaming industry’s backlash against Dragon Age: Veil Guard as an example. The game faced criticism for inserting themes like gender fluidity into a dark fantasy universe, sparking debates about authenticity versus forced inclusivity.
Both speakers highlighted how decentralized platforms like podcasts and YouTube allow unfiltered opinions to thrive, fostering trust that traditional advertising struggles to replicate.
Insights into the Loyalty Market
Gabriele outlined the loyalty industry’s staggering scale, citing a Boston Consulting Group report revealing $500 billion in unused loyalty points globally. Legacy systems, however, remain fragmented: airlines, banks, and retailers operate isolated programs, leading to administrative inefficiencies and poor user experiences. For instance, converting credit card points to airline miles can take days, often rendering them useless for last-minute bookings.
Qiibee’s blockchain infrastructure addresses these pain points by tokenizing loyalty currencies on a private Ethereum-based chain. This eliminates reconciliation delays between partners, as transactions settle instantly on a shared ledger. Gabriele stressed that airlines and brands prioritize control over their programs, making interoperability—not speculative trading—the immediate focus.
Tokenizing Loyalty Bonuses
While tokenizing loyalty points could theoretically enable free-market trading, Gabriele acknowledged significant hurdles. For example, United Airlines’ 100 million loyalty members would face chaos if mile values fluctuated wildly. Regulatory concerns and brand integrity also deter open exchanges. Instead, Qiibee emphasizes tokenization as a tool for seamless partner integrations, letting brands retain control while improving liquidity.
The discussion touched on regulatory shifts, such as stricter rules around point devaluation and expiration dates. Gabriele noted that regulators increasingly recognize loyalty points as “purchasing power,” pushing brands toward fairer practices.
The upcoming Qiibee token will serve dual purposes: paying gas fees on its blockchain and unlocking tiered rewards (e.g., gift cards, crypto conversions) via staking.
AI, Robotics, and the Human Element
The conversation shifted to AI’s role in content creation and trading. While both praised tools like ChatGPT for drafting emails or reports, they warned against over-reliance. The host criticized AI-generated articles for diluting SEO value and contributing to the “dead internet” theory—a landscape dominated by bot interactions.
Gabriele expressed cautious optimism about robotics, citing potential benefits for elderly care but doubting machines could replicate human empathy. Elon Musk’s vision of outnumbering humans with robots in a decade sparked skepticism, though both agreed affordability and practicality would drive adoption.
This podcast is fuelled by Algorithmic Cryptocurrency Trading Platform Aesir. Automate your trading with best-in-class Trading Bot tools. Use code AESIRPOT20 at checkout for 20% off on all subscription plans, forever at aesircrypto.com.
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Transcript
00:00:08
Speaker
I was just looking at this. I'm not sure if you're familiar or if you know too much about gaming, but um I was looking at the release of this game called Dragon Age, Vailgard. It's the fourth ins installment of of a game, Dragon Age, that is supposed to be like this really dark fantasy kind of universe. And this fourth installment got a lot of critique, and rightly so, because it's it's introducing themes that really don't belong in that game.
00:00:36
Speaker
like, ah you know, ah gender fluidity, transgenderism, all that stuff, which is great, you know, it's fine. It just doesn't really make sense in that universe. So yeah people are quite angry, like long, quite angry about it. And if you go on, on, you know, any non-mainstream media, like you go on YouTube, you go on, you know, any podcast, you're going to find out what people actually think about it.
00:00:59
Speaker
If you go on like the mainstream on big reviewers, IGN and all that, they're just going to be like, it's a fantastic game. 9 out of 10. Why has it flopped then? Why is it not selling? Why do people hate it? you know and I feel like it's this disconnect between what people actually think versus what the paid media wants them to think that is really creating a lot of disruption. And I think that goes for crypto as well.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, 100%, 100%. I mean, there is, I mean, I think in and all kinds of markets, you can just pay people or do sponsored posts and all of that stuff where they just write exactly what you want them to write. But I also think it makes, it's much more authentic in general if you actually have a normal conversation and, and there is a, yeah, general relativity behind.
00:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, a hundred percent. Like we all know about, you know, paid PR and and all that kind of stuff, which is, which is fantastic. and And it's a marketing practice. It works. Everyone does it. But I feel like even, even as a company, you you stand to gain more of people's, you know, respect if you're a bit more genuine, because I don't think we're still at a stage where, you know, marketing is quite a mature science at the moment and people, the more they're exposed to something, the more you understand how it works. So the more skeptical you become about that thing.
00:02:16
Speaker
So it's, you know, it's still being like billboard. Hey, we are the number one manufacturing company in the UK. No one's going to believe that. Like no one's going to believe that you're number one at something because you say you're number one at something, you know, it takes people to say it. And it's and it's great that, you know, people are able to do this kind of stuff. how it was I wasn't saying that to my brother on on Sunday because we were in a restaurant and there was like the best burger in town. And I was like, man, I have to feed him all the restaurant where I'm going and they said the burger, best burger in town, best burger in town. Like who said it? they should They should just write down who said it. Like it's probably going to be, you know, the owner.
00:02:52
Speaker
yeah but so yeah According to the chef, this is the best burger in town. it And like things tend to lose their value when when that becomes the norm. You know, if you look at Michael and Lingo, how everything is the exciting. We are excited to present this and this is spectacular and this is amazing. And everything loses its value. And then the only thing that you're left with as a user, as a consumer is, okay, let me just see what what people think, what you know YouTubers think, what bloggers think, what Everyone that's got the freedom to express themselves, you know, yeah No, I agree. I fully agree with you Yeah, so listen you've been in crypto for a while, right? I was reading that you you founded kibi in 2012 The loyalty branch let's say the loyalty part is already a bit older. Yeah, then we actually started learning the whole let's say loyalty in and out in and outs meaning that You know all the
00:03:51
Speaker
really the dynamics from how do you build a loyalty program, what do brands want, what do users want, et cetera. So that it wasn't yet a crypto blockchain back there. And then um towards 2017, actually in 2017, we then made that move um to connect loyalty and blockchain. So what we learned from the loyalty space and and also what we started learning from a tech perspective and and in the blockchain. I mean, I'm saying blockchain space, but at the end of the day, it's like from blockchain technology.
00:04:18
Speaker
um at the end of the day. So, um yeah, they're reaction that made the move too to move towards more an infrastructure ah logic because it really was more applications. So how do you build these loyalty programs? We didn't think a lot about the infrastructure and now it's, I don't want to say all about the infrastructure, but a lot about the infrastructure because we see so much value there that can be captured. And and right now it's completely legacy technology. So um yeah.
00:04:46
Speaker
I'm very excited. According to myself, this is the most exciting... No,
00:05:01
Speaker
ah no but I get you, man. I get you. You you can't you can't deny feelings. I think that that's that's all emotional. it's It's natural, it's human. So that was my follow-up question, because you said like you start you started Kibbe, the royalty thing, right in 2012, but that wasn't always blockchain-based. Was it 2017 that you decided to introduce that blockchain component, and kind of how did you like how did you figure out that that's the next step?
00:05:27
Speaker
I mean, honestly, first by hearing of a Bitcoin. So that was air that's started in 2016, actually. um And there, read the white paper, started understanding a bit, okay, what does it actually mean? Because, I mean, Bitcoin was already a topic from a speculation perspective, like going up and down, etc.
00:05:45
Speaker
um But that actually read the white paper, understood actually what i mean Satoshi wanted to achieve or wants to achieve with Bitcoin and and and the technology behind it because I think that's even more um i mean even more powerful that can and say power so many different use cases.
00:06:03
Speaker
And they actually started to see how the loyalty space can benefit about it. And our goal was always was always to connect the loyalty market more because we saw so many very slow to programs. Also when we're talking with brands, everyone wants their own loyalty program, which makes sense because you want to control as much as possible. You want to fit it as much as possible to the needs of your company. um You want to have that direct relationship to your customers.
00:06:28
Speaker
But it's still a huge pain for customers because look, you have 20 different loyalty programs in your wallet and you forget like 15 of them. and And that's where we actually saw always a big opportunity. Why is there not more connection between these all the loyalty programs and There we really saw that blockchain is honestly was born for for the loyalty market, for all these loyalty currencies out there to actually connect them with each other and and they are a huge value. People really underestimate loyalty programs because they're not that much in in the in the public. Of course, everybody's using it, but the numbers behind, you have to go very, very deep in financial statements of different bigger companies to actually say, shit, this is a huge amount of value. um Right. so How big is the loyalty market? Would you say, roughly? There are different numbers. One number is that that we saw, and that's Boston Consulting Group that did that statistics, so it's not ourselves.
00:07:25
Speaker
um they They say around $500 billion dollars um a i have lot of unused loyalty points. um Loyalty programs, I just saw from a presentation that loyalty programs um worldwide do around $200 billion dollars of revenue. And that revenue actually happens because they sell points miles to their partners that actually then give them to their customers, right?
00:07:45
Speaker
Um, right. Like, a like it makes giving you, you know, flights or, or like, ticket and like reduce plane tickets and stuff like that. Correct. So, and during COVID actually it got much more apparent because airlines really went down from a business perspective. I mean, nobody was flying around, right?
00:08:01
Speaker
The only way to survive actually was to pre-sell their miles to these banks. So an MX, a Chase, a Barclays, et cetera, um because they give their customers the ability to convert credit card points into miles. And there you saw a lot of deals going on. Hey, this bank bought just $500 million dollars worth of point of miles from this airline, et cetera. And there you started seeing much more the value of these loyalty currencies and how much money is being done with it and how valuable they are for for these companies. and Airlines really survived mostly because of because of their their frequent five That was right ah the most I would say when he became the most apparent um yeah just heard ire public hu It's fine you can wrap it up really quickly if you need to go out everyone will understand No, I shouldn't be an ambulance police. that wouldn't shield any coins I Yeah, so there's a huge amount of value behind these loyalty currencies and that's where where also blockchain makes a huge amount of sense because all these conversions that happen between these these partners are a big pain for users because if you want to book a flight today and you want to convert some credit card points into miles, yeah you need to wait three days until they're there in your mind. It's not really an experience where you say it fits to the lives to a user because
00:09:30
Speaker
I mean, at least myself, if but if I if like talk about myself is... I'm not thinking three days ahead when I want to book a flight, oh, shit, I have to exchange some points in two miles, but I actually decide I want to book a flight now. Then I think about, oh, actually, i want to I want to use my miles, right? Let me check how many I have. And then I maybe say, okay, let me check how many I have on the credit card. Oh, cool, I can exchange. If I have to wait, and that happened to me a few times where I had to wait three days and then the flight got more expensive and I'm like, yeah, okay, thank you. um Now it's super valuable for me.
00:10:03
Speaker
And for brands, it's ah it's a huge administrative issue. because um And it's very simple. i You have an airline that has their database with all the low-to-point transactions. You have, for example, a bank that has their low-to-point transactions. As soon as you make a conversion, you have to reconcile um two databases. It's the same if I have bank A, you have bank B, I send you money, there's a SWIFT in the middle that actually reconciles our transactions right so that the balances are updated.
00:10:32
Speaker
um And we basically saw the same potential for for for blockchain on loyalty currencies to make it very simple. Because then of the day, they're like euros, CHF, USD, et cetera, but they're called different, like there's a miles, there is a point, the different branded points, et cetera. And that reconciliation,
00:10:52
Speaker
really is completely removed if you do it on-chain because if you can tokenize both loyalty currencies and you actually put them on the same ledger, both have the same sort of truth. So you don't have to reconcile anything. And the user then has an instant transaction because if they don't want to exchange points from one to the other place, I actually get them directly because again, they're in the same database. um It's not sending files around, making batch transactions or APIs that take an alternative to update each other. so um And it's clear these players are not technology companies. And Airline is here to fly you from A to B, not to build amazing tech. um Though I would say the algorithms that they build in in you know that dictate how the plane reacts to you know weather conditions is really important. And I'm not sure if they build those in-house or if they have like external companies building those algorithms for them, because oh we we know what happened with the with Boeing and their ah recent blips.
00:11:50
Speaker
like and I mean, that's more, it tells me Boeing and Airbus, etc. are actually the ones providing the airplane, right? um So that's those are the people actually that build the algorithms, the airline itself, like a Delta, like a Lufthansa, like a United, etc.
00:12:05
Speaker
You can buy the airline or the airplane um and they sell the seats in those airplanes to fly you from A to B. so bra it's kate It's a hospitality business because you want to give service to your customer. um You actually want to want to want to make a nice experience when they fly from A to B um and the loyalty comes on top, the loyalty program. right Because they want to, of course, retain you as a customer. They want to engage you so that you come again and again um to their airline and that's why they have a loyalty program. but
00:12:36
Speaker
At the end of the day, and it's logic. it's like We wouldn't build our own airplane like ah our own airline and just because we want to build a frequent fire program, you know what I mean? which is Right. So it's the other way around. We are a tech company, so we work on building technology. And and there are a lot of players already working you know on the application layer, so giving these airlines and other programs the whole application side user experience. Let's say the interface for the for the user.
00:13:04
Speaker
The infrastructure is neglected at the end of the day um because um there are like normal databases, servers etc that are in place since 20-30 years and we're really talking about this kind of age with with a few companies that have loyalty programs. So huge amount of potential and huge opportunity to actually um save a lot of money for these companies um and and generate a lot of value for for customers. yeah So, so from what I understand then it would be like the company would no longer have to worry about either a reconciling those points between different companies and not have like the overhead or having to manage these points and store these points in their own database. Cause right. It's on the ledger. So it's their university. Right. So would those then be tokenized? Would they, would they have a, an intrinsic value? Like, you know, like any token there, like, so you wouldn't have to even convert them. You could just pay with those tokens if you wanted to.
00:14:00
Speaker
Well, let's say the the market is not red yet ready for that. But see that you've thought about that. I can see it. 100%. I mean, that that would be the the dream case. um but thing is that The thing is that, and I completely and 100% understand why it didn't happen yet because um I mean, one thing is imagine an airline that flies around 100 million people a year.
00:14:21
Speaker
ah and maybe but Actually, let's take a United, for example, that is a hundred million more than 100 million members in their loyalty program, right right? Huge. We're talking about huge numbers. Now, if you have an up and down of that mile, which is publicly traded, your customers would... If 5% of the customers call the airline because the price drops, that means 5 million calls that you have to take in your support center just because the price dropped. These are the things that are that are difficult maybe to see from the outside, but there are so many processes in the background and the CFO would get crazy to now think about market making or exchange listing of that specific mile. So this is for us.
00:15:07
Speaker
it's It's a dream scenario. and we We hope that the dream will come true, but it will be at least, I would say, my God's feeling like at least 10 years from from here. Yeah. Well, you need to take just so many things into account, right? Because yeah like what if someone decides to do some fuckery with that with the supply or to just to trade it in a way that it would just fluctuate the price widely? And suddenly these tokens are like $5,000. You can buy like 10.
00:15:33
Speaker
10 plane tickets and sell them or resell it. There's a lot of room for to exploit that. 100%. Yeah, 100%. United at the end of the day, I'm just taking back that example, um doesn't want you to... like They want your loyalty, right? So they give you some miles so that you come back to them or that you use them with the partners that they have. And those are really, let's say, partnership with agreements that they do because they believe in a certain co-branding value, et cetera, et cetera. So if you now start getting miles from United, sell them on the market or even go and pay Delta with it. wouldn't if They wouldn't be that happy about that, right? So it's really more about giving these players a very efficient infrastructure where they can tokenize their loyalty currencies, which anyways have a value of their book. So if you go into the financial statement and you check out
00:16:23
Speaker
how many points are outstanding um off of one of these airlines or also other programs, and you see how many how many liabilities, how much liabilities they have in dollars on their books. We're talking about billions of dollars, I think. like don't don't take it with a grain of salt, but I think you don't have to have $9 billion dollars worth of liabilities from the points that are outstanding. So they have a clear value that are on the books, right? um And it's really about tokenizing that specific value, putting it on chain and making it tradable.
00:16:53
Speaker
um And that's also my how also why we chose actually an approach of, okay, we took an Ethereum copy um for our blockchain, right? And we let talk we let these brands tokenize it on our chain, which is not publicly accessible by others in the sense that it's not that you can suddenly as ah as ah as a user say, you know what, I'll open up Uniswap liquidity pool with USDT and the United Mars. They will get crazy.
00:17:20
Speaker
Right. I would like to see something like that though. It's such an interesting... But again, we understand it now much more because we talk so much with these brands that we understand more the intricacies of what their needs are at the end of the day. And we're really ah believer of it sounds a bit cheesy but like when Jeff Bezos talks about customer obsession yeah he is right like you build for your customer and you're not disruptive until customers actually use your solution and see value in it right so when we start building kibi.
00:18:00
Speaker
And I mean the blockchain part, always, but mostly also with the blockchain part because you get driven a lot by what is happening in the market, what would be cool, what kind of use case. As we just talked right now, it would be amazing to trade these loyalty currencies back and forth and have more freedom with it, right? but Not at all the need of of these, let's say, enterprises. um And honestly, not at all the need for a lot of customers. Because a lot of customers just want to have their miles. They want to have freedom to be able to spend them, of course, in the partnership network that is there, which is anyways already huge enough. We're talking about a few hundred partners, so you can almost get anything with these. masks
00:18:42
Speaker
just In most cases, you can't cash them out. But again, but if I need an iPhone, I get an iPhone with United or with any other player or with Amex, etc. um ah and And mostly, it's about type K, exchanging for flights. There you also have the best value, which makes sense. If you use it for their product, they give you also the best value back.
00:19:00
Speaker
um so It's really about identifying the needs of these markets and these players and then building for them and solving their problems and their issues and making it really 10x, 50x, 100x better than it is today.
00:19:15
Speaker
Right. and And do you think, just to just to put my tinfoil hat here on for a moment, do you do you think that companies have an incentive to want to make loyalty points more easily accessible or or claimable? Isn't it kind of in their interest to make it a little bit obscure to claim so that they don't lose out on the rewards that they promise that people don't end up claiming them?
00:19:38
Speaker
Like it wouldn't be an official statement written anywhere in any company policy, but I'm sure like some stingy CEO would be like, just put that, you just put it in the fine print so they can't get it. You know, or something. I mean, yeah honestly, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a super good point. So there are two camps, I would say there's exactly like that few people were saying, no, no, but it's that if our customers don't spend and then we have less cash out, right.
00:20:06
Speaker
yeah On the other side, there is a very clear camp, and that camp is getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and that clearly sees with data, hey, when our customers spend their loyalty points, they actually spend more money with us. Because if I have miles like right and or points, whatever it is, because I purchased a product from you as a brand, now, if I can't spend these points or miles,
00:20:31
Speaker
Why is there value to coming back to you, spend more money with you to get more points and miles? There is no value. so In that moment, it's get it gets a price fight because then I don't choose the airline with the best loyalty program. I actually choose the airline with the cheapest ticket.
00:20:48
Speaker
right And that's also super bad for airlines or for any other brand because if customers start choosing by price, what happens? Your only strategy is reduce price, reduce price, reduce price to the point um where actually you don't earn any money.
00:21:03
Speaker
so yeah it The camp that is seeing a lot of value and and and to give also more and more value to customers with these loyalty currencies is getting bigger and bigger. A very cool thing is actually that regulators are starting to see more and more value in it. Maybe I can share the article after the call with you. but ah Yeah, sure. As for example, um regulators are starting to um to put much more, um let's say, focus on these loyalty currencies because they see that customers are actually seeing that as a real purchasing power. And so what they're doing is they're starting automatically to regulate the players that are issuing these loyalty currencies and say, hey, you can't just devalue the value, for example, the loyalty points from one day to the other, but you need to be much more fair with it. You need to keep up that value, etc., etc.
00:21:51
Speaker
so And also, for example, expiration dates are getting higher, ah meaning that, for example, a few airlines really have, okay, if you're active once a year, like you have to be at least active once a year in the program, so that you might as well expire. um Also in Europe, a lot of airlines went from one year to three years expiration time. so giving the customers more value is being more and more a focus. And that really comes with giving more freedom, giving more liquidity to these loyalty points and less thinking about it. It's kind of an old school thinking. It's still here, yeah but it's going it's going more and more away.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, no, I i completely agree. i feel And also what you've just said, you know competing on value versus competing on price was one of the first ever things that we learned like back when I was studying marketing in in uni. like One of the courses was like, it's it's that. It's like you can reduce the price and and compete in an already competitive market, or you could try to create more value so so people you know you provide something that other other ah competitors don't. um And and and i'm also I completely agree that I feel one of the easiest and best ways you could you could do to build brand properly and to get people to like really like talk positively about your brand and spread positive word of mouth is to make people happy, is to give people what they want, is to entice and not to build anti-consumer practices. And i I was just talking to you at the beginning about you know the gaming industry and stuff like so many
00:23:20
Speaker
And you're you're going to see so many anti-consumer practices in those things like, ah oh, you want, and especially like casual gaming, like games on on your mobile phone with like you play for 10, 15 minutes or whatever, if you're a fan of Candy Crush and stuff. And then to continue to play the next level, you suddenly you have to spend three hearts. And if you want to buy these three hearts, it costs you like $1 for three hearts. There's people that i' spending that are spending tens of thousands of dollars on just these gamified anti-consumer mechanics because you can't get the whole experience unless you cough up more and more cash. ah hundred percent like ah Yeah, I I also believe that a customer will become more and more, and that customer relationship will become more and more and more important going into future. so Because there are more players coming in and into all kinds of markets. Look at banking with all the FinTech and Neobanks that are coming in.
00:24:11
Speaker
You need to provide value. If you don't provide value, you start losing customers. And losing customers means you start losing your business. Yeah, exactly. And it's only a matter of time right until until that happens, until people realize that your value offering is no longer strong enough. I'm going to go to these other guys. 100%. 100%. So how many um companies have you guys onboarded or worked with? And are there any that you have good case studies on that you'd like to share?
00:24:41
Speaker
I mean, we have now around 25. Actually, one more, just five more hotels that are not getting around, so 30. Nice. Yeah, that are, let's say, actively working with us, using all kinds of our solutions. I think the most exciting one for us right now, and then we also announced last year in December, is the partnership with Mize and More, where we're actively helping them out to expand their whole partners ecosystem, because Mize & More is a huge company. um It's owned by Lufthansa. And of course, they already have a lot of partners where you can earn and spend your miles. And what we're really focusing on is onboarding the smaller partners that, let's say Mize & More um doesn't have a template, the resources to onboard so many smaller partners because they focus on the larger ones, right? So um I think that's that's a super interesting partnership for sure.
00:25:34
Speaker
In general for all frequent fire programs for other loyalty programs that don't want to expand the partner network because we can really allow these enterprises to onboard partners with a click and i mean um that that's how we built the whole. ah generally Not only infrastructure in this case but also application data because we have our rewards marketplace.
00:25:54
Speaker
you actually can access as a brand, you can decide with which brand you want to collaborate with. That brand receives a notification, then they can just accept or decline. And with that... That's very cool. Yeah, that's... Honestly, and also every time I see it them and and and... I use it as a user or I explain it in a demo. It is very cool. We have to build, I have to say. um so it's And that also had has a huge scalability potential. so That's really, um now a year in, we learned a lot of stuff um with the partnership. We learned a lot of, let's say, again, every day you work on these products, you learn and you talk with customers, you actually get more data and understand better what do these customers want, what do these customers need on on both sides, right?
00:26:37
Speaker
and That's really what we focused on is building out the product, talking with the customers. And from here on now, I would say we're really ready to scale the whole operations um and and to go really wide because um again, we have have a lot of substance from from a customer feedback perspective where we see, okay, this is what is really needed. And at the end of the day, businesses think a bit like individuals, they don't want to spend a lot of effort on generating value. And I think we all have that internally. Sure. We don't want to spend a huge amount of time to get a certain amount of value, but if possible, wait a second. My mom calling me in the best time. You can pick up if you like. Bring her on the pod. Mama, you want to get on the pod?
00:27:30
Speaker
Then we'll have to do the... to Not not not in in Italian because she doesn't speak English, but she doesn't like it when I speak and any other language in Italian. I can understand some Italian. I've never studied Italian. I can understand about maybe, I'd say, 20% to 30% of... That's good. Of what you said, yeah. as so So, yeah, um that's for sure one of the most exciting partnerships we're also seeing now from the first partners that we onboarded a lot of cool um numbers.
00:28:00
Speaker
Of course, people love to spend to spend as as much as possible of their miles on different products. They actually have a a furniture store that we all bought at the beginning of the year. A huge amount of miles spent on on furniture. i wouldn' I wouldn't have guessed it. I wouldn't have thought about it.
00:28:16
Speaker
No, me neither. But it's it's amazing. that That's the kind of data that surprises you, right? And where you actually start learning more and more. because sir Okay, actually, furniture, people like to spend their miles, for example, on furniture, which, if you would have asked me at the beginning of the year,
00:28:32
Speaker
I would have never said it's the furniture store that will have the most amount of expenditures. Is that number one currently? Is that the most popular claim for for those miles then? Yeah, with spending miles, yeah. It was the most popular, yeah. With a large partner that just started that just started now, a big... I should actually say it's public fashionnet, which is a large e-commerce store.
00:28:55
Speaker
um and And they also had amazing numbers. They had, I mean, they do around 20, 50 million a year revenue. um And also the numbers public. I always have to make myself reach number down.
00:29:08
Speaker
Yeah. Because otherwise, either it gets public or either I get a ah message from it being like, can can we... Yeah. What are we actually talking about? and No. and there And they just started now um in, I think, mid of October. And in the first month, they had already just by soft launching it around a few hundred customers that already um want to but ah earn or spend their miles. um And that's that's actually earning miles. So that's actually really cool to see because and it's It's always like that if you have a lot to program it doesn't matter if you use an external one like in this in this two cases the brand don't have the whole lot to program but they say you know what we connect with miles and more right and we give out miles to our customers when they buy something or we let them spend miles which is. Which is an amazing amazing solution because at the end of the day.
00:29:56
Speaker
You don't have the whole hassle of building your own loyalty program right and to have to manage it, but you actually can choose a use a huge brand, um which has a huge amount of customers behind. I mean, Masmore has around 36 million members um and and their loyalty currency already has a huge power right so um and brand awareness. So um that's a really, really cool, let's say, solution and seeing these brands now starting to flourish is is is he's amazing. You get a lot of these words, but but it is really amazing.
00:30:27
Speaker
We'll just censor everything that's a superlative. as Yeah. ah It's a technology and I'm very about it. was It's really cool. Yeah. I was using a lot of cool at the beginning of the year that I met somebody and so like, a um you always say cool. Just use also some other words, exciting, amazing. and Like, okay, you're right. I should actually change some time.
00:30:52
Speaker
Yeah, i feel I feel like cool is is one of these words that it's it's not a superlative. Something is really nice. It's cool, but it also leaves room for interpretation. you know it leaves a bit When you say something is amazing, that's that's it. there's no You're not going anywhere from amazing. What's better than amazing? you know um That's true. jacob have you Have you ever read 1984?
00:31:15
Speaker
about George Orwell. I know which one, but I never fully read it. I read some summaries, but never the whole thing. So in the book, um they they talk about creating a new kind of English language that's called the new speak. And they're looking to remove all of these new ones in languages, saying that, well, a lot of it is redundant. You don't need um great and amazing and fantastic and all that. And then they they their suggestion is we're going to have one word that's good.
00:31:43
Speaker
And then if you want to if you want to say well better than that's a plus good and if you want to say best that's double plus good ah and because you have the word good you don't need it's negative because you have good so you can just say on good there's no bad.
00:31:59
Speaker
It actually makes completely sense. If I think about my German teacher when I went to school, they're like, yeah, and when you write an essay, don't use always the same word for the same meaning, but actually it makes, I mean, one side it makes sense, but it makes also life, I think.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like if a machine were to make that language 100%, I feel like if a machine, that's how a machine would create a language. If they could, they would just strip out all of these like human components and just streamline it to extreme, you know? That's true. Yeah, that's true. But it's fun to see when you talk to chatgpt, it's actually quite ah humanly friendly. We're also using, this is exciting and this sounds amazing and it sounds like this. so Very true, yeah. I feel like it also tries to, like sometimes it tries too hard when when you use the AI and it uses you know like these words that are just kind of kind of big or too big to to fit within that context. And and every and every time it goes, um yeah like it's a dead giveaway if you ever see a text that says, in the world of or in the realm of filling in whatever industry that's AI generated. I see so many articles now that are AI generated on the web. and and but
00:33:10
Speaker
just I feel like it's just you know just throwing stuff there instead of actually people taking time to to build those things with more more time and effort. but ah i've seen like Also, Google has been cracking down on that quite a bit lately. Google's getting much better at detecting AI-generated content and then de-ranking websites that or or blogs that use that. so it's it's no longer It used to have a bit of SEO alpha, but it no longer has it.
00:33:36
Speaker
So, hopefully, people stop writing AI-generated articles. No one wants them, honestly. No one wants to read them. ah No one reads them. There's also this theory of the dead internet. Not sure if you're familiar ah with it it. It was popular, I think, back in early 2000s, and then it it came back again. The theory of the dead internet is that no one actually uses it. It's just fucking bots writing to bots and bots making other bots posts.
00:34:01
Speaker
and I feel like there's some truth in that, you know? Yeah, yeah there's 100% of... I mean, yeah, there is 100% some truth in it because at the end of the day... and and i said and Actually, Mark Zuckerberg talked about it, that um we was much more and more um usergered user AI generated content um on social media.
00:34:24
Speaker
um To actually piece the user rights so that you actually see more content that you like but if you think also about how many books are those of those that on those platforms it's like it's literally that like you have a bot creating content and you have bots liking and engaging with the content. and Yeah, I 100% agree with you. and But I think also they also talk about the trading, in trading the same the same logic that basically um that alpha will go away because if you have AIs um training with each other, both will optimize the point where there is actually no no human component and and and there is actually no no profit to be gained because you have both fully maximized them, AIs trading against each other.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, no, i could I could also be partly responsible for that. I do have an and algorithmic trading startup, which pretty much does that. um but But we don't use AI. We we just we let people create their their algorithms themselves. So whatever strategies that they want to build and they want to implement, you know whether it's with technical analysis or with sentiment analysis or stuff like that, they can build it. But it's ultimately, no it's like giving you you know did this this car to to go and run lapsson but it's up to you to take the steering wheel to know how to fit to bra
00:35:46
Speaker
I feel like AI is probably not yet. I haven't looked too much into it. It's on my bucket list of things to do once I have a bit more time to just figure out if there is if AI trading is actually a thing, because I keep seeing this term pop up. I'm not convinced that it can make sense of all that market noise just yet. Maybe maybe maybe it's just me until I look into it. I'm not going to know. Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean i think AI is...
00:36:15
Speaker
If you think about what Steve Jobs had with the computer, that it's like the bicycle for the mind. um I think that AI is like the motorcycle for the for the mind. um seven they ah That you can then you can go even faster because I see myself and back to content. like When I have to write something that is longer,
00:36:35
Speaker
Then, yes, I use chat TPT. I put my bullet points in there. Can you please write me? I need to do this and this. This is my audience. um and Can you quickly make me text? It literally speeds up so much and it lets so yeah you save so much time. I have the feeling and it would always, with with everything you do, i mean as you just said, like you give the car and people have to drive it. I think that's where where we have to be always aware of um that we're responsible as humans of what we're doing. So if we get a tool, we are responsible how we use it. And the same logic is when I create ah when i create a piece of content,
00:37:12
Speaker
um And it's not for social, but for example if I have to do an investor update or something like that. I like to um i like to put it perfectly just right here, are the bullet points, right? um Then I always check it myself and I always adapt a few things because I want them to be more like me at the end of the day so that it's also more genuine, right?
00:37:31
Speaker
And I think that's the part where responsibility and accountability comes into play that we as individuals just take that for ourselves and and use these tools to make our lives, again, better and faster and then save more time and gain more more time back for our loved ones, for example, or for ourselves. ah But at the end of the day, if you start just...
00:37:51
Speaker
dumbly just using like, here AI, do everything for me, live my life. yeah like and a good worry positive right i back into the pool bag he just just Just do my job throughout the day. Yeah. Hey, here's my wife. Go go have go have at it.
00:38:12
Speaker
yeah ah With Elon's robots, you never know. He said recently that within 10 years, he expects that there's going to be more robots than people um on on the planet. And just to clarify, he doesn't just say more machines because I think there are already more machines that aren't human, 100%. I think he means more Tesla robots.
00:38:36
Speaker
Yeah. And I have, I find that hard to believe more than you mean more than eight. Well, we're going to be like in 10 years, 9 billion or something. So you mean more than 9 billion bots in 10 years, man, you got to have some really efficient like production line to be able to pull that kind of stuff off. Yeah. like it took It took them years just to have a product, a good production line for Tesla. And it's really hard. It's like production lines are some of the hardest things, right? Um, to build one for, for so many bots, I feel, uh, it's a bit optimistic.
00:39:06
Speaker
I mean, he's a very optimistic guy. He likes to aim. He likes to aim high. Very true. He also has to be true, like and and fair he reached a huge amount of stuff that sometimes with delays, but he reached a lot of a lot of goals that he set himself. and i mean oh yeah so It's difficult to to imagine like having more than nine billion robots on on this world, um like the Tesla robots, but I also have the feeling that If he manages to bring the price to a certain level where it's really affordable, honestly, it could really be um like it it really could be that that you have but you have two, three robots in your household. One is doing the laundry, the other one is cooking, the other one is driving you around, the other one is doing the garden.
00:39:56
Speaker
um so It depends really on, I think it's a pricing topic. um If you bring it down to a price which whereries which is affordable for everyone. i I could imagine i could imagine seeing that seeing that a lot. I mean, think about the restaurant or like a lot of lot of different things we really have. Again, the question is then, what are why are we humans doing then? If there's somebody relative, but that's not a conversation. ah But just from a numbers perspective, i there is a certain truth in it. If it gets to that kind of number, I don't know, but a few billion robots, I could imagine it.
00:40:34
Speaker
Yeah, I can see it on a longer time scale, 100%. I have a lot of respect for the guy and I think he's built a lot of fantastic technology and he was obviously very knowledgeable. um but But yeah, I think we would just we would just have to see. I would love to have some you know AIs do my all my stuff for me so that I don't have to worry about it. really you know hundred percent i'm I'm sure a lot of people would too. And again, I think it's back a matter of value.
00:41:00
Speaker
Like, um of course, it's part of it, but there's also, you know, the is the is the perceived value of having some AI assistance around, you know, it does that improve your quality of life to a point where you're feeling like you need to spend money on this thing? um And I'm sure like a lot of people would. Yeah, I also think, I mean, if you think about elderly elderly people, for example, that live alone, um and that have to, let's say, right now,
00:41:26
Speaker
um They're basically, they need their family to take care of and and sometimes also the the family has to work, has children and et cetera. So it's also difficult to but take care there and if you, let's say, if you have there an assistance that is really all the time with you.
00:41:44
Speaker
I have the feeling that that will bring a lot of value because um there's a lot of stuff where it could literally help you out during during a basic stuff again doing laundry cooking do all of these things driving around etc but then also being there if something happens um i think that that will be a ah huge a huge game changer for A lot of people were having a lot of situations where elderly people, I don't know, fall at home. um They don't feel well and nobody sees that. They don't have the time to call someone. They don't have to to time to just react, right? And in that it can really, I think if if you look at all these use cases, it could save a lot of life and then bring a huge amount of life.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And not to speak like the efficiency gain you'd have by using AIs or robots in a business, you know, in hospitality, in retail, in all that sort of stuff. I feel like that would be any business owner's wet dream. A lot of people are concerned that people like getting robot like people are going to be losing their jobs to robots. Because first of all, it was like, oh, we're going to lose our jobs you know to AI, like content writers and designers and programmers. and and you know But it's proving to be more of an assistance rather than, you know like we were discussing, rather than taking your job, we're talking about LLMs. But if we're talking about robotics and robots, I feel like
00:43:05
Speaker
I feel like people will just naturally like slowly transition into different industries. I think people would just upskill to learn to maintain or improve these robots rather than doing the work themselves. You know, just like ah in in programming, if you want to use AI to write some of the code for you, you're kind of like the overseer. You're making sure that what this guy is doing is correct. I said, guy, I'm already humanizing them. Why the AI is doing this? big goes
00:43:38
Speaker
100% and i also think if you think about hospitality um it is difficult to i'd say think about an air airline for example i mean yeah you can.
00:43:50
Speaker
I don't know if I would do it, but in theory, the the easiest job to um ah to ah to replace would be the pilot, because in theory, you would have meet he do it. But who is much more difficult to actually replace is the stewardess, as an example, because or the steward, because you need that, I think, human connection. like I don't know if we can start building, at least I can't imagine to start building a relationship with the robot in the sense that you have as a waiter, for example, when you go to a restaurant and the waiter makes a joke or he, like, there is that human touch that i oh yeah the feeling that really is bonds us as humans, which at the end of the day goes over the rational side, right? And that is irreplaceable from my perspective, honestly.
00:44:37
Speaker
No, I completely agree. I think there's some novelty factor in getting a bot to serve you a beer. I think that's cool for a few times. and Maybe you can have a few thematic venues that are, hey, these are run by robots. you know Go have fun, whatever. um Get this robot robot to give you a lap dance and just smack that piece of tin or something.
00:44:55
Speaker
what But I think in terms of having an actual human to human interaction, I don't think that can ever be replaced. i don't think you know you I don't think we can have machines that are as human as humans, even if you give them you know great you know, skin like texture and you make them very like feel very, you know but you know, it's not a human there, you know, but but then we're getting into like really weird discussions about what is human and when we reach singularity and we're talking about AGI or as ASI, like at which point do we consider this thing sentient? And if it is sentient, then then what's stopping us for treating it as ah as a human, you know, like it's... getting in ah in a strange territory there. I feel that's um that's how if you've watched, the you probably watched The Matrix. Yeah, of course. there's There's a prequel to it. There's an, anim well, it's an anime that is not film. It's an animation called The Animatrix and explains how The Matrix got where it is. So it talks about, the it actually shows society evolving um in tandem with this a with this AI robot city that they built.
00:46:06
Speaker
um And the AIs were starting to protest for rights because they were seeing a subhuman and they were like protesting, looking for like rights and stuff. And then there's a lot of like human to to robot violence. And eventually that's how the the conflict escalated. And then the machine started a war with the humans. like i mean and as say can imagine it but i ah yeah like As soon as you have the emotional side,
00:46:36
Speaker
Like if if AI and robots really get to the emotional side, yeah it's 100% something that, this that's really what creates a kind of the wars. It's when people start getting angry, people start getting greedy. So it's not the rational side that actually then, um at least that's my, that's my, that's my take on it. um I always have the feeling that behind um when you have wars or let's say, yeah Yeah, conflict, it's always a matter of of emotions going high rather than looking at facts, looking at the at the rational side because um in theory, if you look at rationality, that never makes sense to to make a war. There's always other solutions that are much more useful at the end of the day and bring more value to both sides. um So yeah, if if an AI gets to that point,
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know if you get there, but if you get there, then I think we have other issues. That's why maybe Elon is so scared about a few things. Yeah, no, 100%. And I feel like like ah but but what you're saying regarding emotions, I feel like that's how you that's how we sway masses in general. You appeal to their emotions. You you don't you can appeal to their rationality, but it's only so far. It can take you because people can still decide, oh, this is bullshit. I'm not going to listen to you. you know um But if you try to appeal to their emotions, um ah every time I see a speech from anyone that goes into, think about how hard this is and how bad it makes if you're like, no, I'm not going to think about that because you're just trying to make me really emotional so I can feel with your no. Like I'm instantly going to judge that person's characteristics and and what they actually want from me the moment they go like on this emotional manipulation kind of spiel, you know? 100% degree. Yeah, 100% degree. and
00:48:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean for the motions you can you can do a lot of things and also I can look at marketing and then selling products that's exactly where ah emotions have have actually a huge amount of of of of let's say I don't want to say valuable of of drive like ah they drive a lot of decisions because it a multiple component and it a lot of people don't being rational when they purchase certain things. A hundred percent. Like just look at ah at an iPhone. Like how many people actually care? Well, we've got the A5 processor and it's got eight gigs of RAM or whatever. I'm like, I don't care. um I don't honestly, I'm not sure how many people use it for the space because I have an iPhone and I use it to just get directions to write to people and to like browse Twitter and Reddit sometimes. That's literally all I use it for and to like pay for stuff.
00:49:17
Speaker
I could probably even use like two gigs or three gigs of RAM. I wouldn't care about it. all of even Even easier. Look at meme coins. Yeah. yeah look at that Look at the entire look at the entire like stock market. It's all emotional, right? You got fear and greed. like we've gone We've gone from 68,000 Bitcoin to 89,000 Bitcoin purely on greed. right We got a little bit of, yay, fuck yes, America's back, pro crypto, everything. And then you got People like retail started to come in. We've registered a few days ago. We had the highest level of inflows um of of Bitcoin ETF inflows that we've ever registered. I think it was um over 1.3, 1.4 billion dollars in one day. um and And if that's not not like that's emotional, that's greed. That's a market. 100 percent.
00:50:08
Speaker
but it's That's also what it makes. I think it makes life. It makes life, it makes a good side of life because emotions are amazing. If you think about loving someone, someone, et cetera. Of course. On the other side, of course, there's also bad emotions that drive on the other side. I think that that that's what makes life worth living. it and It was only rational, then we can go to 1984, as you said. This is good. This is good plus and good plus. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I feel a lot of the times it's also the, you know, it's not only about experiencing the
00:50:49
Speaker
The nice emotions cuz the life is you know, it's a roller coaster You've got to deal with all sorts of stuff and I feel that that's what makes it special You can't experience you can't appreciate the good times if you if you don't have any of the lower, you know of the bad times 100% It's boring. It's it's ah you so you always have to top it up and because that's also how we humans are are made. like We always get comfortable with one state of of, let's say, good life, and then you want it better, better, and better, and better. um and when you When you get, let's say, pulled back into reality in certain senses that, hey, there is also the other side of life, right um I think that really makes you appreciate so much more the good side, and also the small... Yeah, 100%.
00:51:36
Speaker
100% cause like if you have, if you, let's say you eat the best, most exclusive, whatever food in the world today and you eat it again tomorrow and you eat again the next the day after that, you're going to get sick of it. You're going to be like, I don't want any more of this. This is bullshit. I hate it. yeah it was Yeah. Give me some bread with tomato and some olive.
00:51:54
Speaker
Exactly, let's go! we missing up that's um good oh There's this one really simple pasta dish that I love by the way, it's called pasta aliolio. It's so nice man, it's just some olive oil, some garlic, some chili, it's fantastic, it's so good.
00:52:13
Speaker
I mean, and if you can, but that's, I think also where you appreciate the small things. Like if you eat caviar every day or truffles, then it's just like, it's not exclusive anymore. It's not fun anymore. um And the same with pasteliol. If you eat it every day, it doesn't it you don't appreciate that much as the as as when you eat it toe like in randomized way. Let's call it like that.
00:52:35
Speaker
Exactly. like it it needs to be It needs to be an experience, especially with pasta, because if you have so much gluten on a regular basis, it's probably also not very good for you either. Yeah, but I had a bit too much. with go have to but yeah but My workouts need to be more intensive.
00:52:50
Speaker
actually all Yeah, I know what you're saying, man. I know what you're saying. I'm hoping to be bulking for the next month and a half, and then I have a long cutting period, and I never look forward to the cuts. They always suck. For me, it seems like when summer comes, it's like you get ready because, you know, okay, you will be out there with your bathing suit and everything, and then it's like, okay, winter is coming.
00:53:13
Speaker
it's getting parents i think it bit moreer Give me another burger. yeah Awesome. um what what What plans do you guys have then for for the remainder of, well, there's not much left of this year, but then let's say next year or the first quarter next year.
00:53:30
Speaker
um so i mean This year, for sure, the most ah the most anticipated milestone that we have on the on the roadmap is um is our KG itself. um So launching our token, um that that's really how we anticipate it. So we're really working on making that one done. We also have a few brands in the pipeline that we're still working on. We hope that we can announce one or two still this year because When you work with enterprises, it's always, it's amazing on one side. Appreciating the good and the bad. It's really good. On one side, you have huge brands and you get so much value out of it, but on the other side, it's very, very slow. to So many processes. yeah You got a confirmation on a piece of communication. Marketing has to check it out. Legal has to check it out. Sales has to check it out. But then when you have it, it' you also know it's 100%. So that that's for sure something.
00:54:24
Speaker
And then next year, honestly, I'm scaling the the business style, meaning that onboarding more and more brands. As I said before, we we saw this year with Mizemore that the whole tech product really works. We onboarded the first 20 partners. um We had already a few before. So but already we around 20 partners this year um all together. So we really saw okay.
00:54:46
Speaker
It works. We saw also what didn't work, and we have to actually, um let's say, work on. um And now next year, full focus on on the morning plans. The moon is really cool. Yeah, to get a lot over 100 brands. Let's see how how many we can we can onboard. um Again, that's that there's also, you try to build efficiency on one side and and quality at the same time. So you still want to onboard a lot of brands, but you want to give them as much attention and as much value as possible, ah personally, um in the sense that as a team, you really want to onboard each one individually. You want to stay next to them to really show them how they can use the product, etc.
00:55:26
Speaker
um But the goal is to come to get well over 100 brands um that are on board and then also um expanding on the on the loyalty program side, getting more frequent flyers on board. So um fully focused on the business side and um and with that product automatically, we'll willll we'll further develop because again, it's always a better iterative process where you onboard brands, you're listening to their needs, you talk with them and then on the other side, you further develop the product. so There are a few very, again, I'm using exciting again, but they're very, very exciting um opportunity in the pipeline that i it it sounds big, but it it really can be ah one it's say one step further into changing the whole face of ah for loyalty infrastructures and how actually, and then all these processes are are being conducted in the background again.
00:56:18
Speaker
changing infrastructures for enterprises, what I told you before, with billions of dollars in low points out there, it's not a thing that you do from to today to tomorrow. Of course. So um it takes a lot of time, but you always look like step by step. It's like when you climb a mountain, which is is very high, um you just are happy with every step that you're making in the right direction when you're getting to that peak.
00:56:41
Speaker
um And that's a bit the same here. We have a few things in the pipeline that if they work out, i really think that we can we can say we're redefining how loyalty works. that that is we say i'm going to use it as well That is exciting, actually. That's really cool. I think, what's the use case of your of your token? What's it going to be primarily used for? yeah so It's used as a gas fee, first of all. um so For our blockchain, where actually brands can tokenize their points, can make transactions, so that's the first one. At the end of the day, using a really decentralized incentive structure, because as soon as you say, okay, just pay a cash fee at the end of the day, you always have somebody in the between, either a bank, either
00:57:20
Speaker
any other payment provider. So having that decentralized incentive structure for the brands using the chain and then the nodes that we're building, um that's that's one of the the main utilities. so On the other side, we're actually using it for it.
00:57:35
Speaker
other side. our users Our token holders can use it as um kind of as a state to smile. So the more tokens you stake, the higher your tier um and the higher your tier, the more benefits you will get on our loyalty program. And the cool thing is since we've built all these B2B products, so for brands, we're actually now using it for our own holders. So we set up our own loyalty program based on the white label solution that we have built. We have all the rewards that we have on the marketplace. We have integrated in the loyalty program and There you actually will be able to stake your tokens, get points, and then you can decide yourself, do you want to get more tokens? Or do you need to get a gift card from Amazon right now because you want to order something in Amazon? You want to fly to the next conference, so you need miles to exchange these points to miles. Right. And we have tons of different brands on there from Apple to Samsung, et cetera. So we saw people buying their grocery vouchers, getting a PlayStation, getting an iPhone.
00:58:26
Speaker
and getting an Amazon gift card. We have an integration with Binance where you can convert your points into crypto. Of course, we use, let's say, we're much more How should I call that? We're much more open to use all kinds of different redemption options as a company in this space because we can also test many more things. And the cool thing is we can then show it also to the brands and show them, hey, look, this actually really worked. um And users were super engaged when we opened up to this redemption option or um all the questing topics that you see right now in the crypto market where make a tweet, follow us on Twitter and all of that stuff.
00:59:01
Speaker
we integrate in the loyalty program. So, um yeah, the idea is really to to build at the end of the day, the dWeb3 loyalty program with all the know-how that we bring from um the loyalty space itself, plus the know-how that we've built over the last seven years in in in the blockchain space, in the crypto space, where we saw a lot of stuff, learned a lot of things. So, um yeah, i really, yeah.
00:59:22
Speaker
I really would say we put a lot of work and a lot of passion in in what we do. um so And I see that the first user that we enjoy, we have around 60,000 users now on the program. um So test a lot of things. Also there, talk to a lot of users, learn a lot of stuff, and now always improving on it.
00:59:40
Speaker
Yeah, man, I can tell they're really passionate about it and it's always it's always good to see you know that you you work on what you're passionate about because that's how the best products get get built and created and developed. and So all of this is in your internal infrastructure. You said you have a copy of Ethereum that you're running like it's own separate blockchain, but it's integrated with stuff like Binance so people can trade those points or buy points or sell points if they like. Yeah.
01:00:04
Speaker
And on our marketplace, you can imagine that every brand can basically choose the option to say, hey, I want to let my customers exchange their points to rice sample, right? So it's really what what we say is you have to bring the tool, as we said before, also with AI, right? We give the tool to these brands and then they they can decide what they want to do with it.
01:00:22
Speaker
If i as a brand say no look i prefer just miles as an example as an exchange option you just choose miles well that's completely up to you right if you say hey i'm a bit more open and also from a regulatory perspective i can actually also allow it that you can open it up also with um with with crypto so um ah you can choose different cryptocurrencies that are available on violence and um And then your customers can exchange points into the BTC, into ETH. And the cool thing is, in our dashboard, then the brands also see exactly what kind of redemption options their customers actually like. And what we see is, yeah, people love crypto. Right. Yeah. I'm so happy with their BTC, ETH, Sol, Dodge. So it's like, it's fun to see how, how I mean, we also have the Web3 community on on on board right now. So of course, they tend more towards that.
01:01:11
Speaker
ah I think that with Web2 users, you will also see um many more other um redemption options. And again, we also saw it actually with the Web3 community because everybody needs to buy groceries. Like also in crypto, we have to eat, we have to buy stuff. um house cetera so We also use iPugs, we also game on a PlayStation, etc. So it's really fun to see how real world products and rewards, so not just like points of crypto, have a huge value, have a huge value for the space. And that's also one of the things that is a big USB compared to a lot of other, let's say, engagement programs that you see out there in in the Web3 space. um Most of them say, hey, you got some points, and then you got an airdrop for that. um we We did also these kinds of compatible, we always allowed to exchange those points, those social five points into real loyalty points from our program.
01:02:03
Speaker
um so that you can actually then get whatever whatever you want. that's That's super cool, man. I think like that's also a big step for adoption and a big step to making you know crypto yet more familiar to to the read like your average you know retail investor and even just regular people using stuff and seeing that, hey, i could yeah I could claim this for miles or I could claim it for for for Bitcoin.
01:02:25
Speaker
and just like yeah um It's really cool. I'm really looking forward to this. um It will be my pleasure to have you on some other time. ah Talk to me about your your big release ah or anything like that. umly Next time, next year would be really good. I'll send you a link so that you can register and you can check it out by yourself. Yeah, go ahead, man. Do it. Thank you so much. and i mean Again, I have to use again amazing, but it was really really an amazing conversation. I really, really, really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.
01:02:53
Speaker
Me too man, thanks for coming and have a lovely rest of your day. You too, thanks a lot. Bye. Bye bye. Bye everybody. Bye.