Episode 22: Who Am I? Thoughts on Author Branding

Transcript

Lindsay Franklin: Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Lindsay Franklin.

Paul Regnier: And I'm Paul Regner.

Lindsay Franklin: And today we are going to be talking about... Branding.

Paul Regnier: Yay!

Lindsay Franklin: author Yay! yea

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Which this is a. big and interesting topic. There's a lot of things that that we want to talk to you guys about today. So I'm really excited for this episode. And um I think that Paul and I both have interesting, unique experiences with this and things that we have to share.

Lindsay Franklin: so

Paul Regnier: Yes, I stink at it and Lindsay's really good at it.

Lindsay Franklin: ah No, no, we've we've got, we well, we have a lot to cover. We're going to get into it. But before we do that, um I think that it might be helpful.

Lindsay Franklin: if we sort of define what an author brand is, because sometimes out there, especially when service providers are offering.

Lindsay Franklin: help with this or some kind of services in this zone you will see a lot of author branding things related to visuals and that is definitely a piece of branding um the the visual aspect of it so how what does your website look like maybe even the vibe of your social media um even sometimes what you look like as an individual um which sounds a little crazy but when we sort of become a

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: I don't want to say a public figure, but that's probably the right phrase to use as an author. We we ourselves as individuals become kind of public. So sometimes even what you look like as part of your brand. um

Paul Regnier: Lindsay, Lindsay you go full goth.

Lindsay Franklin: ah

Paul Regnier: for your Look great.

Lindsay Franklin: ah Totally. No, it is not 1998. So I do not go full goth.

Paul Regnier: but

Lindsay Franklin: I wasn't even full goth in 98. But I did have a little bit of that vibe a little of the vibe in high school. And, you know, this, it's really actually funny that you would bring that up off the cuff, because that is a piece of myself, that sometimes I have successfully and other times not as much.

Lindsay Franklin: woven into my branding over the years. So we will talk about that. We will talk about times I have succeeded and times I have failed at that.

Paul Regnier: thank you

Lindsay Franklin: so um

Paul Regnier: you have to you have to be like You have to write vampire novels to pull that off.

Lindsay Franklin: Right. I have to do my like my Twilight fanfic or something before I can do that.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: um But actually, one of my favorite examples of really, really strong author branding um has a little bit of a goth vibe. So we're going to talk about her ah as we get further into that.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: But there is there is a lot more to your author brand than just. the visuals and the aesthetics and everything.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: So so what is an author? brand um that is that is the the big first question that we were going to tackle. And, you know, this is not um This is not like a very technical definition, but the word that comes to mind for me is vibe, but also identity.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: I think your author identity is... what your brand is. So when we think about the word identity, it probably becomes obvious that it's deeper than just the aesthetics. It's not just about what your website looks like or what font you use on your newsletters and stuff like that that's that's a piece of it and so that is something that is good to consider as part of your brand but it's

Lindsay Franklin: even more importantly, about what you are writing and what you are bringing to your readers within. your stories. That is a a yeah.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, I thought I just thought of an example, if I could.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes. Perfect.

Paul Regnier: like jump in. and not totally interrupt you.

Lindsay Franklin: Do it.

Paul Regnier: um But. What you just said totally reminded me of one of my favorite. like writers of movies. Like, so I guess screenplay, but he's also written. I know it he's written at least one novel, is William Goldman.

Paul Regnier: who wrote The Princess Bride and Maverick.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: and Bunch of other stuff. But, um, When I think of, because I read the Princess Bride book. that he also wrote. and obviously i've seen the movie like tons of times um but i also like he also wrote a a movie called maverick which is like Western with Mel Gibson and Jodie Foster. Hmm.

Paul Regnier: And. um I really when I think of that, I think of a certain type of story. And it kind of makes me happy because I love that type of story. So it's like an adventure with characters. that kind of have fun banter.

Paul Regnier: And it's quirky.

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm

Paul Regnier: It's not the usual like. Princess Bride is not the usual fantasy. Right?

Lindsay Franklin: Right, right.

Paul Regnier: because a lot of times fantasies are super epic, and but it's way more playful.

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm

Paul Regnier: and fun banter.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: and it but it works right it's somehow he made it work same with maverick maverick is a western and you're following this sort of cowboy gambler.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm -hmm.

Paul Regnier: Whatever. Um. But same idea. It's not a typical Western. It's fun. It's funny. It's quirky. It's different. So when I think of William Goldman, I think of the feeling that those stories give me.

Paul Regnier: And I think. Ooh. I want to read more by this guy. Like I like having that feeling.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: So I think that's a. big part of it too.

Lindsay Franklin: 100%. In fact, that is the... biggest.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: part of it. And I love that you used him as an example because he, in those two movies that that you pointed out. Those are two quite different genres, right?

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: We have a fantasy and a Western, very different genres.

Paul Regnier: orderly. Right.

Lindsay Franklin: And yet the feeling, the vibe.

Paul Regnier: It's the same, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: is the same, is the same.

Paul Regnier: or similar. Maybe not exactly the same.

Lindsay Franklin: Similar. Yeah. I mean, it gives you the viewer.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: There's something, there's a cohesion there. And that's what we want with our author brand. We want there to be a cohesion in what we're writing and the persona that we're putting out there. now William Goldman's an interesting example because he's kind of from an era past in a sense where that's pre -social media and really even.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: now with filmmakers they they do have a more like public presence. I was going to say, you know, you don't necessarily often see filmmakers on social media, the way that you might see authors, but you do, you do.

Lindsay Franklin: um So it would be interesting if he were, you know, like in the prime of his career now making movies now, would we know more about him as a person?

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Would he have his kind of brand identity online and stuff like that?

Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah, it'd be interesting.

Lindsay Franklin: Maybe some, some filmmakers do, but um we certainly are supposed to as authors, because that's one major way that we are going to be able to reach our. readers.

Lindsay Franklin: That's how we increase our discoverability. Social media is a big way for us to... do that and so um with you know with that particular filmmaker he was kind of doing things in time past so we might not know so much about him as a person but i'm guessing that if twitter existed back in the day or whatever he would probably have really um witty kind of funny you know like uh feed his the stuff that he would probably write would be pretty funny

Paul Regnier: Yeah, I hope. His tweets would be... Bye bye boys, have fun storming the castle!

Lindsay Franklin: Right, The Princess Bride is one of the most... quoted and quotable movies of all time ever and it's it's because it's just it's witty it's full of banter and the the little pull quotes are perfect so that's why twitter came to mind for me first for him for socials that would be a perfect extension of his brand um for like the forward -facing kind of very direct access part of his brand so

Paul Regnier: Quoted yeah.

Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: that's That's such a great example um of of this and what we're talking about. And it really highlights kind of the most important piece of it, which is about the art that you are creating and what that is giving to your reader or viewer in his case.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: So that's very cool.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, I've seen yeah i've on the other side of the spectrum that you've mentioned, I've seen. the more visual side of things i've seen authors actually create like a logo where their name is turned into a logo with some sort of design that mirrors like the types of books.

Paul Regnier: So if it's fantasy, it's all like vines of trees intertwining with their name or whatever it was, you know, like magical sparkles.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: um And then, yeah, like you said, like the picture of them. I've seen people like their author pictures, like them in a forest holding a sword or something like that, right?

Lindsay Franklin: Uh huh.

Paul Regnier: Like, oh, a fantasy we author.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: Um, or a blacksmith. I'm not sure what. but um But then I've also seen people authors that have like a tagline.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: You know? that almost like it's like it's a sentence that sums up their style. of writing.

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm

Paul Regnier: And I think all those can be kind of cool things.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: I don't. personally have Like any of those. but i kind of i when i see them especially when they're done well i think I should probably do that. That's pretty cool.

Lindsay Franklin: it's It's a smart thing to do. And every literally every piece of everything that you just mentioned can be or is part of that particular author's. branding where it's it's about communicating to your reader through visuals or through that little snippet, that little tagline or what have you, communicating to them what they might be signing up for when they kind of hop on this experience as a reader with.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: you or following you through your newsletter or following you on Instagram or whatever it is, if they're picking up your book or if they're connecting with you as a person, um you're you're giving them an idea of what they're signing up for.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: So with that you know author standing in a forest holding a sword, you know that you are likelier. to get. a fantasy novel from that author, probably with a certain vibe, a certain type of fantasy from that author, rather than you're not expecting a cute rom -com.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Paul Regnier: Sure.

Lindsay Franklin: when you pick up her book, right?

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: Like you you're expecting a kind of a medieval fantasy sort of ah a vibe, right?

Paul Regnier: Sure.

Lindsay Franklin: so

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: it's an And that's communicated with zero words whatsoever because, you know, the author photo is there in the forest with a sword. And so that's just visually communicating a lot to the reader.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: So all of those things can really work together.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: But the fact that you don't have any of those things tells us that you don't have to have those things in order to, you know, communicate who you are and what you write. It's just these are all elements you can use.

Lindsay Franklin: and

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: I think that the, yeah.

Paul Regnier: And then the question becomes like. Like if you added those with that. like reinforce something would that even be like a bonus to what you're shooting for.

Lindsay Franklin: Right. And I think more so than making sure you have every single possible. branding element included in your particular brand, you want to make sure the pieces you do include are sending the right message.

Lindsay Franklin: I think that's actually more important.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: So in your case, for example, if you spent a ton of time coming up with a really snappy you know one -liner. you would want to make sure that that doesn't steer people in the wrong direction or only encapsulate because you are somebody, you're an author who writes in a lot of different genres. So your one -liner tagline thing would really need to communicate.

Lindsay Franklin: the the overarching sort of vibe or identity ah you have as an author rather than communicating a genre in particular like that author photo might with a forest and a sword you would need to make sure that it's getting what the through line is for all of your

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: fiction that you write.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: So if it's leading readers in the wrong direction or sort of promising them something that is not fully encapsulating the experience that they will get from you as an author, then it's actually worse, in my opinion, to have that there, communicating the wrong thing than it is to just have nothing and just say, hi, I'm Paul and I write books and here they are.

Paul Regnier: and

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: And you communicate instead through the the books taglines and the the books, you know, blurbs and everything. You're communicating a lot through that as well. so

Paul Regnier: Well, the author bio is another way of doing that too, right? like

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: Because summing everything up into sentences. That's a tall order. But if you...

Lindsay Franklin: Very.

Paul Regnier: can have a couple paragraphs in your author bio.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: Like that's kind of where I I'm a little more comfortable kind of... you know like in mine i say like hey you know, cause you always talk about yourself in the third person in these bios. So it's like.

Paul Regnier: Paul believes like one of the um One of the... Wow. What do I say? I can't remember my own. Bye.

Lindsay Franklin: ah

Paul Regnier: Bye. Uh. but something so I have it, like I'm not looking at it, but it believes one of the closest things to magic on this earth is imagination.

Lindsay Franklin: Oh, love that.

Paul Regnier: So that's kind of like so I weave in magic, right? So I have like a little taste of like oh he must write fantasy.

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: and the imagination like oh obviously he's coming up with stories he's imagining these worlds So I felt like that's probably the closest I ever got to coming up with a tagline. And it's like the first line of my bio, but then.

Paul Regnier: you know i kind of expand upon that in the rest of it um So yeah, that's kind of one way I do it.

Lindsay Franklin: yeah

Paul Regnier: um

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: and then the other way i do it i think is just i try to my books even though i hop around a bit with different sub -genres within the speculative fiction market. i um the the feeling is very similar you know this light -hearted adventure quirky characters, funny banter.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, so I kind of keep that. portion of it consistent so it's like oh okay kind of like what you're talking about with william goldman yeah yeah we have a western over here and a fantasy over here but somehow you get the same feeling.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: when you See them.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, absolutely. And you know it is is it helpful from a branding perspective when you happen to write all of your books in the same genre? Yes, yes, that is helpful.

Paul Regnier: Yes.

Lindsay Franklin: If you happen to be somebody who writes only in one genre, yeah, of course, that's helpful.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Because of course, genre has those same types of promises to the reader, right?

Paul Regnier: Right.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: If we tell a reader, this is a, you know, humorous contemporary story, they're going to have certain expectations going into that reading experience because of what that genre is.

Paul Regnier: okay

Lindsay Franklin: And if we say, Epic. fantasy that also has certain expectations that come along with it so it's all part of that promise that that we're making to readers up front in the same way that our our author brand does so when when those things are very well defined because there's like one genre that we write in of course that is helpful but is that

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: ah the the only way to have you know real clear message to your readers about who you are as an author absolutely not so um you know it's all about what is the through line what is that through line that you are going to deliver to your reader every single time they pick up a piece of your work and ideally Every single time they see a post from you on social media, every single time they open an email from you.

Lindsay Franklin: um And those are much lower kind of ah or more casual, more casual interactions, I guess, um with with our readers where, you know, when I sit down to write my author newsletter, it's still me.

Lindsay Franklin: I'm writing it and all of that. But I'm not thinking about um I'm not spending time thinking about. character development or being really clever, even in the way that I word things or whatever, the way that we put that kind of like investment in our novels.

Paul Regnier: right

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: but it It should still, I do still want it to sound like me. I'm usually going to have at least one little joke, maybe one little humorous thing.

Paul Regnier: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: There's going to be something in there. And same thing for, yes, that's something that we have in common with our author branding, because that's part of our identity as people is to have that kind of humor infused in there.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, me too.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And, you know, so that's, I like for that to be in most of the things that I put out there. And when there's a tone shift for me, like on social. media, when I have something really serious to say, I've noticed that my my followers are like,

Lindsay Franklin: oh what's she what's she doing what's she talking about and they'll kind of like perk up a little bit because it's like lindsey's being serious what's going on we don't have the haunted garage sale doll in this reel or whatever like i'm talking about something serious and so they will listen and i'll get kind of like ah a different level of interaction on that because they like have perked up because it's different um but if i were to do that constantly like the whole time that would change my entire uh tone you know and and it would no longer be a reflection of me because i i certainly do talk about serious things, you know, fairly frequently.

Paul Regnier: Yes, sir. Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: but um Usually there's going to be that kind of lighthearted, um little little bit of snark, not mean snark, but just a little bit of snarkiness, um you know, in the background.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: so

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, I keep it light on socials.

Lindsay Franklin: that's Awesome.

Paul Regnier: I don't.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Don't go serious too much.

Paul Regnier: Ever since Facebook beat me down, I'm like, enough.

Lindsay Franklin: Oh gosh. Not too much.

Paul Regnier: I can't take the drama

Lindsay Franklin: Too much.

Paul Regnier: Just going to keep it light.

Lindsay Franklin: Oh my gosh.

Paul Regnier: Um, What else was I going to say? Oh, yeah you know, I do get jealous of the people that really lock into something. like ah The latest book I've been working on is Lit RPG.

Paul Regnier: And I've read a couple of books by this author named Seth Ring. and he is all in on on lit rpg so all his books and he's written a ton he's a very fast

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Writer, I think he writes like 10 books a year. It's insane.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. he's His process is unbelievable.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah, like he's a machine.

Lindsay Franklin: He's he's amazing. Yeah.

Paul Regnier: But...

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Like I see. that from his first book to his latest book, it's all so like. Targeted. on that lit RPG and ah and a very, and kind of a specific.

Paul Regnier: area of the lit rpg um sub -genre That. those are the type of people I get a little jealous like man it's kind of like those people that like knew what they wanted to do since they were 10 years old and they just did it and the rest of us are in college going I all these majors are terrible I don't want any of them but like

Lindsay Franklin: Right?

Paul Regnier: so that he's like the version of that in the book world for people or i just look at that i'm like man That is amazing to be able to have that gift where you just lock into something. And that's probably.

Paul Regnier: like ah such a great advantage for marketing, for branding, for all that, because everyone knows exactly what to expect from you. every time.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: Now... All right. Unfortunately, I don't have that because my imagination skips around. a little bit you know i've done cozy mystery sci -fi fantasy

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm. Yep.

Paul Regnier: Now I'm doing lit RPG. So i'm I'm like a little all over the place, but... like i said like this the style sort of keeps it together. um And I think like...

Paul Regnier: But I think of things like one of the things i always think of is when i was growing up one of my favorite shows ever i think it's still my favorite show of all time is the old twilight zone show i don't know if you've ever seen it from the 60s black and white they still do reruns

Lindsay Franklin: me I have. Yep.

Paul Regnier: um I love that show. But. Every week, you didn't know what to expect. It was like...

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: One week at science fiction. another week i don't think they ever did fantasy but it was like it would, it would just, another week would just be like paranormal. or supernatural.

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm mm -hmm

Paul Regnier: And then another week it would almost feel like some sort of like dark thriller. Maybe not thriller.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Maybe that's not the, best but anyways, it it kind of jumped around quite a bit.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Like even like delving. Like. touching on the horror genre at times.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep. I was going to say that there would be like vibes of horror, not in a real gory kind of a way, not slasher like horror, but like that, those vibes for sure.

Paul Regnier: Yes.

Paul Regnier: Right. Yeah, almost like that psychological horror kind of vibe.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: They they had the whole, like, what was the... The famous... a movie that came out this year like indie uh backrooms

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: So... yeah this movie just by this indie filmmaker called backrooms and then it's just done like amazingly well.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: in the box office. and it But it really has that Twilight Zone vibe, I thought.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: You know, it's just like, where am I?

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: These rooms go on forever. And it's just like, oh, there's monsters in here. I'm like, this is Twilight Zone. This is.

Lindsay Franklin: uh -huh

Paul Regnier: For me, this feels very... So... Growing up with that, like... I think that's sort of almost what like. directed my imagination in a way.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: to where it's like, I don't want to be confined to just one thing. And when I watched that show, it never threw me like, wait, what?

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Last week was science fiction. What is this? Like I never even. thought that for a second i just thought like oh cool another mind -bending story

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: you know, that's a little different from reality. It's always bending reality, I guess, if you could.

Lindsay Franklin: Right.

Paul Regnier: Sum it up. But um I think... That. That's definitely a way. I mean, I don't know. I just think like we if If we're not so locked in like a Seth Ring on Lit RPG, like... i feel like we shouldn't.

Paul Regnier: force ourselves if our brain is working like Twilight Zone. and

Lindsay Franklin: Sure.

Paul Regnier: twilight zone i think had a very um strong brand. You know what I mean?

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: It's like when you say, oh, I'm in the twilight zone.

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm

Paul Regnier: Everyone knows what you're talking about.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: Right? Like it just means something's a little off or out of the ordinary or whatever.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm -hmm.

Paul Regnier: So even though it skipped all around, it still had a pretty strong brand that people understood.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: All you had to say was like, man, I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Everyone knows what you're talking about.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: So anyways, that's my long rambly side.

Lindsay Franklin: Absolutely.

Paul Regnier: Thought.

Lindsay Franklin: No, that's great. That's great. Because one of our big questions when we brainstormed this episode was are you allowed? Are you allowed to experiment, you know, as as an author?

Paul Regnier: Yes.

Lindsay Franklin: Because Of course, it's great if you do have that very, very strong. drive toward one particular genre or, you know, one particular ah type of fiction that does make things, um I don't want to say easier because I don't want to like take away from, like Seth is a great example of this.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: That man works so hard.

Paul Regnier: Mm -hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: Like he is a very hard worker and he has a background, I think, in sales and everything.

Paul Regnier: Oh yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: So he really understands that side of things. And he, like you said, is a machine, both with cranking out novels that are good quality novels and Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Oh yeah, they're great. They're so much fun.

Lindsay Franklin: Great. and And his readers love it. And he just is so dialed in. So it is not at all to take. Uh oh. oh I lost Paul for a second.

Paul Regnier: Yes, I lost you for a second. I think you're back.

Lindsay Franklin: Oh my gosh.

Paul Regnier: And and your cat appeared.

Lindsay Franklin: my cat just phased in out of nowhere that was so weird i didn't even feel him jump Ooh!

Paul Regnier: Oh, I'm gonna blame that on your cat. Your cat has some sort of

Lindsay Franklin: but Speaking of Twilight Zone, what is happening?

Paul Regnier: Wow.

Lindsay Franklin: That was crazy.

Paul Regnier: but Just with that cat. I'm a little worried about that cat.

Lindsay Franklin: Oh my gosh. Okay, now he's gonna disappear again. There he goes. Our YouTubers get to have the extra bonus content, once again, um of my cats being crazy.

Paul Regnier: Speaking of Twilight Zone.

Lindsay Franklin: Right, exactly. Oh my goodness, that was crazy. um Anyway, bringing it back around.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Hopefully ah that won't be too big of a blip for our listeners.

Paul Regnier: it looks like we're still recording i think we're good fingers crossed

Lindsay Franklin: um Yes, I think we're good. I think we're good. So, um you know, I don't want to take anything away from people who do are very locked in on their branding and only writing in one really specific space because that's it is not at all to say that it's easy.

Lindsay Franklin: Okay, it just is.

Paul Regnier: Oh right. I think it's just an advantage, really.

Lindsay Franklin: It's not that. Yes.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: It's very helpful for them and for their readers because there is a very defined picture of of their author identity. And so a reader knows from book to book to book, and they have a clearer idea of what to expect.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: but I think that we could all probably think of very successful author examples who are not just in one lane.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: and you know, their readers still know what to expect in some sense. And the person who came to mind for me just now was Stephen King.

Paul Regnier: Mm -hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: um i I think that he, you know, and this is a career that's been built over decades. So it's not like he necessarily started there with all of these different things that he's done, including, you know, fantasy, fantasy, all the way to horror and and everything else.

Paul Regnier: Sure.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: but um

Paul Regnier: Once he became a zillionaire he could kind of do whatever he wanted.

Lindsay Franklin: he kind of do whatever he wanted um but so he's somebody who of course started more in the horror space but

Paul Regnier: Amen.

Paul Regnier: sure

Lindsay Franklin: There is definitely a through line with his type of writing and who he is as an individual and the kinds of things that he has to say. That's another piece of it is theme.

Lindsay Franklin: you know The theme that you're continually bringing forth in your work is a big part of your author identity or your author brand.

Paul Regnier: m

Lindsay Franklin: So um he's he's definitely somebody who's been all over the map, but has a very strong you know author. identity and people kind of know what they're signing up for people who are not into kind of the horror, that type of really intense fiction, they know Stephen King is probably not going to be for them.

Lindsay Franklin: It's very clear, you know, that that he's not going to be for them.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: So, um and he's just one example. There are a lot of examples of very successful authors, including those who are, you know, found success more recently, because it is hard sometimes when we go back so many decades to authors who became super successful before social media, before, you know, it's a very different world.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, it's a different, yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: world. Different world.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: 20 years ago, even.

Paul Regnier: Different rules.

Lindsay Franklin: if It's different rules um and especially 40.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: 50 years ago, very different rules, but we have more recent examples of that too. um You know, somebody else who just came to mind for me was Charlie Holmberg. And I don't know if you know any of her work, but she, okay.

Paul Regnier: Mm -mm.

Lindsay Franklin: So she writes fantasy um primarily and, but it's very different flavors of fantasy and some of it's YA and some of it's adult and some of it is ah like gas lamp fantasy.

Paul Regnier: Mmm.

Lindsay Franklin: So has that very, you know, that vibe to it. And then. Other other stories or series of hers have more of a ah high fantasy feel. and so she's And sometimes she'll talk about.

Lindsay Franklin: which sub genres, you know, do better with readers where it's like what they really want from her. And I think she has said that the gas lamp is really like readers love that from her. um And so that's kind of the sub genre that maybe rises to the top for her, but.

Paul Regnier: h

Lindsay Franklin: Clearly, for her as an artist, She. needs to be able. to move around a little bit and not all of her ideas fit into that very defined sub -genre of fantasy.

Lindsay Franklin: And so she needs to be able. I'm guessing, I don't know her personally, but I'm guessing she needs to be able to experiment with that and to allow herself the creative freedom to not be in one very narrow.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: lane with her work. And I'm guessing the same thing is maybe true for you too.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Oh. Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, I got to go where like the most exciting idea.

Lindsay Franklin: ah

Paul Regnier: is. Like, if I get an idea, that's what...

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: That's like the energy that takes me all the way through the writing process because the writing process you know. can be Yeah. It can be difficult, especially like you get to that middle point and then like finishing and then going. It's like you have to be so.

Paul Regnier: like, stoked about your book idea. It just has to be like this wonderful. like project like that you can go all in on. Cause you know, otherwise it's just like drudgery, you know, it'd be like, you know, someone forcing you.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: Like if someone came out to me and like, Hey, here's your contract. I want you to write, you know, a Victorian romance. I'd be like. Oh Okay.

Lindsay Franklin: Not for you, huh? not Not at the top of your list.

Paul Regnier: How many cups of coffee do I need to get through the day here?

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: You know, it's like that would not work for me. I couldn't. I just couldn't. And, and it's writing, right?

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: It's still writing.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: It's writing the book.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: It's this thing I say, like, this is like my most. cherished you know career. venture that i have but if it's not the right story like i am totally out i might as well be you know data processing or something.

Paul Regnier: um So, yeah, I just feel like it has to be that like just awesome. idea that you're like oh my gosh i can't wait to write this especially at the beginning where you can just fly through those first couple chapters because you have just that you know that excitement of a new story idea and

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: So yeah, to me, that's like one of the most important things. And I can't deny that if I get this great new story, I'm like, I want to try it. And and I just, I like to experiment, you know, as part of that is just experimenting in different genres within speculative fiction. and and And part of that comes with just you you read books, like you read a book and you're like, oh.

Lindsay Franklin: it

Paul Regnier: this is really cool. Oh my gosh, that would be fun to write a book like this.

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm

Paul Regnier: So it could come from that too. Um, So.

Lindsay Franklin: Absolutely.

Paul Regnier: Anyways, yeah, like like the the latest one that I'm working on is Lit RPG.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: I've never written a Lit RPG book. However, I grew up loving video games and I've read a you know bunch of lit RPG books and they're so much fun.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: and um it's kind of this it's it's a newer i wouldn't say it's a new genre but it's newer at least Like as far as. The... the excitement and the attention it's getting.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, I think it's become a lot more mainstream recently.

Paul Regnier: It's become a lot, yeah, a lot more mainstream.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: Right, right.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: And i've I've always enjoyed. the broader genre of, I guess they call it game lit.

Lindsay Franklin: isn

Paul Regnier: But i think I think even something you could go back to. 1984 and say Tron. That movie Tron was technically game lit.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Paul Regnier: I mean, the guy gets sucked into a video game and he's got to.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: figure out a way out so it's not like this is a brand new idea this has been around for decades but like as far as like the book world it's kind of like

Lindsay Franklin: Right.

Paul Regnier: It's kind of a newer thing, but it makes sense because you think like. you know these um what the last couple of generations have grown up playing video games.

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm

Paul Regnier: So to them, it's like, oh, we get it.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: This wouldn't have worked in the fifties, but like.

Lindsay Franklin: No, not so much.

Paul Regnier: Everyone gets video games now. They get that video game world and it's kind of like they understand it. So it's fun to write about.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: you know, things that are sort of new in the culture. Anyways, I went on and on, but yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: So.

Lindsay Franklin: That's actually so weird to think about because. I, you know, I'm in eighties. kid i was born in 1982 so you know i remember having my original uh

Paul Regnier: Yep, me too.

Lindsay Franklin: and NES system you know that we would play.

Paul Regnier: Ah, yeah. Sure.

Lindsay Franklin: And everything. And I'm thinking, okay, my kids are old enough to be having kids. None of my kids have kids, but I could be a grandma at this point. So we have reached. that stage in history.

Paul Regnier: Say it ain't so.

Lindsay Franklin: I know, right? But we've reached that stage where the grandparents out there or potential grandparents out there are old enough to have.

Lindsay Franklin: grown up playing video games and so you're probably right with why I mean this genre has been in the background for for a long time for decades um and you know having worked in this industry for so long I've been meeting people at conferences and all over the place who oh yeah I write lit rpg or they have it in you know I have this lit rpg story but I know you know it's not going to get that's not going to get picked up or something so maybe they're working on something else

Paul Regnier: Yeah. Right.

Paul Regnier: Have you been hearing that a lot more lately

Lindsay Franklin: Lately, yes. And I think what it is, is it's the success of...

Paul Regnier: Wow.

Lindsay Franklin: Dungeon Crawler Carl.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: is um is one of the the big um the big things bumping this a lot more into the mainstream.

Paul Regnier: It's huge.

Lindsay Franklin: But the people, well, like Seth is a good example.

Paul Regnier: Yep.

Lindsay Franklin: He's somebody who's been writing it for years and and and finding success with it.

Paul Regnier: Yep. Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: So, but it it feels like it's been this very sort of underground niche thing for a long time. And now it's bumped into the mainstream, which is really cool to see, especially for the people.

Paul Regnier: Yeah. And a pre a precursor would have been like Ready Player One, even though that's not, I don't think that's technically lit RPG, but it's like game lit.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: you know.

Lindsay Franklin: It's in that vibe. Yeah.

Paul Regnier: That VR kind of, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: It's still kind of in the, yep. like in the broader the broader space.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, and that was a big hit, and they made a movie that was...

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: what 10 years ago or whatever, but. But yeah, it's sort of like ushered in kind of this or is one of those, you know, kind of ushering in kind of books.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: But yeah, it's crazy.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Very cool.

Paul Regnier: It's funny how the different trends form and stuff. All that to say, it's fun to experiment and try different things.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: And and it's not too far outside.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: of like I guess the author brand, I suppose, you know, if you're already sort of in that speculative fiction world.

Lindsay Franklin: Right, right.

Paul Regnier: So I think it still works, you know, I don't, again, you're not as targeted as like a Seth Ring, but you know, you're still within your same, you know.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Absolutely.

Paul Regnier: Again, I'm not switching over to Victorian romance, right?

Lindsay Franklin: ah Right.

Paul Regnier: I'm still within. It was in a similar vibe. you know One of the questions I wanted to ask you from the - traditional publishing side of things because i'm

Lindsay Franklin: Right. Absolutely.

Paul Regnier: Since I'm indie, I'm sort of like... When it comes to branding, I'm just sort of trying to figure it out on my own. I'm like, okay, like who am I? like what is What's my deal? like How do I portray myself like from a marketing perspective? But if someone gets like signed and they go with, like say, Enclave Publishing, the publisher you work for, does the publisher step in and sort of help craft that?

Paul Regnier: like that author. branding or is that something they just say like, Hey, here's some guidelines. This is what we recommend. How does that work?

Lindsay Franklin: So I think that it this is obviously going to vary a whole lot from publisher to publisher. So I will speak, you know, to my personal experience and kind of what we do at Enclave.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: um I would. I would describe it more as consultation because we um you know we're never really going to be controlling um in any sense ah what our authors are putting out there on social media.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: For example, we are, of course, controlling what we choose to acquire as an enclave story. So when it comes to the actual... work um to the actual fiction in question that's that's something that you know we have a lot of

Lindsay Franklin: control over because Enclave is its own brand as well. so And that is a little um not completely unique because there are other publishers out there like that where they have a brand identity as a publisher. That's not always the case. Like if you say, oh, a HarperCollins book.

Lindsay Franklin: Well, HarperCollins has a billion books and a ton of different imprints and all kinds of stuff.

Paul Regnier: Right. Right.

Lindsay Franklin: So they are certainly a recognizable brand name, but the brand identity is not. strong in the same way or or defined in the same way that the Enclave brand is.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And.

Paul Regnier: Broader range, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, it's a lot broader. And so with an enclave book, we have our own following on social media, we have people who subscribe to our newsletter, and there is a very ah clear idea of what an enclave book is supposed to be.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And so that's gonna

Paul Regnier: So it's almost like you're starting with you go with Enclave. You've already got a little bit of branding. naturally.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, people are going to expect first of all, that it's going to be clean fiction. um You know, that that's just that is a brand expectation that people rightly have of an enclave book because that has been established that we're, you know, we're not going to venture too far into any kind of R rated content and that sort of thing.

Paul Regnier: and

Paul Regnier: Right.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: um So that's a big piece of it. And we're especially careful with that with the YA line, of course, with that imprint, we're going to be extra, extra careful.

Paul Regnier: Mmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And we're always thinking about young impressionable teens, even though that's not the only ah the only people reading our YA fiction. A lot of them are middle -aged women like me reading RYA stuff.

Lindsay Franklin: um but

Paul Regnier: And that's pretty outside the the mainstream, right? Isn't YA typically especially... Modern YA. It's... Very not clean, right?

Lindsay Franklin: It can be kind of spicy. It can be a little spicy, especially in the in fantasy, you know, YA or NA, you know, the new adult space that's kind of coming back as a thing um and romanticy, the surge in romanticy.

Paul Regnier: Spacey. Yeah, yeah

Paul Regnier: Right.

Paul Regnier: Sure.

Lindsay Franklin: So, um yeah, it's it's a very big conversation right now of what belongs in YA fiction. what doesn't what belongs in adult fiction and what doesn't.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: So it's yeah, but people know if they pick up an enclave book, it's not going to we're not even really going to be tiptoeing towards that line. We're just not. um

Paul Regnier: Which is good for branding, right? I would think that's ah that's a very distinct branding, like when people know what kind of books they want to read, they can know like, oh, I know exactly what to expect from these Enclave books.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Lindsay Franklin: Absolutely.

Paul Regnier: I like YA.

Lindsay Franklin: Absolutely. Hmm?

Paul Regnier: but you know maybe I prefer the clean version. Oh, Enclave, good. I... Whatever I get.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, so that I get it. Yeah, that's good.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, 100 % because it tell branding tells you not only who your book is going to be for, but also who it's not for.

Paul Regnier: That's smart.

Lindsay Franklin: And that's very helpful for readers.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: If if somebody is coming from, we've had a lot of new, we just meaning broadly, the fantasy genre, um broadly, we've had a lot of new reader readers coming in because of the rise of romantasy.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And so a lot of these new to fantasy readers coming in are romance readers.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And so if those particular romance readers, and this is representative of a lot, but not all of them, um are used to spicy romance, so maybe what they've been reading for decades, they have been reading spicy romance, you know, contemporary novels or whatever, and now their bridge into fantasy has been spicy romanticy, and that's all they want to read.

Lindsay Franklin: Enclave is not a good publisher for them. to They're going to be disappointed.

Paul Regnier: Right, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: They're going to be disappointed. They're going to pick up you know my book and say, Where are the spicy scenes? um And I speak sometimes at our local, um my local bookstore has a book club that they do.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: And they've read ah both books in my duology over the last couple of years. And so, you know, at the end of the month, I'll go speak to them. And this is such a great group of women. I love them. um And a lot of them are.

Lindsay Franklin: you know they They will read some of that spicier romantic stuff. It's not all they read, clearly, because they're reading my books too. um But, you know, it's something that I've talked about with them, a conversation we've had.

Lindsay Franklin: And I'm just like, yeah, when it comes to those kind of like ah pepper emojis, sometimes authors will use those to like talk about how many the heat levels of their book. And if it's like one chili pepper, if it's five chili peppers or whatever.

Lindsay Franklin: And I'm like, yeah, I'm the.

Paul Regnier: it's like ah It's like a restaurant menu.

Lindsay Franklin: It's like, ah exactly, exactly.

Paul Regnier: ah

Lindsay Franklin: And i've I say, I'm...

Paul Regnier: This one is three red chili peppers.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. I'm the bell pepper, that little green bell pepper. that's Those are my books and it's fine because that...

Paul Regnier: that's funny

Lindsay Franklin: It's just that's what I write. And um and I'm not apologetic about it. And they're not asking me, you know, to write more than that. Although. One gal was so funny. She was like. If you do make the jump to adult, maybe just like a little cracked black pepper on the thing.

Paul Regnier: ha That's funny.

Lindsay Franklin: Like, yeah, it's it's a really. funny conversation but you know it's If somebody is looking for, like, that's a really important to them part of their reading experience, I don't want them picking up my books because it's just going to make them sad.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: And so, you know, I might have a conversation with somebody like that and say, hey, these are the things that I love to put in my books. This is what makes a really great story to me.

Lindsay Franklin: And clearly, I feel like Spice doesn't need to be part of that.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: So maybe we can have a conversation about that.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: And they might be inspired to, okay, I want to see the whimsy or the... imagination or the sparkle or whatever it is and give that a try and maybe they will have a different kind of reading experience but if they're coming to the party looking for

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: spice or smut or or what have you, they're gonna not be happy with ah what I have to offer.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: So branding is very, very helpful in defining. what your or who your reader is and also who they are not. So.

Paul Regnier: That's so funny that that's in fantasy now it's that seems so new to me because I grew up reading fantasy and that was never really

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: a part of it. like any romance was just like really just hinted at, you know what I mean?

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: like

Lindsay Franklin: Kind of more more minimal.

Paul Regnier: Like you're growing close on an adventure. That was probably. Like what I remember when I was younger. like you'd see those old romantic book covers. And if anything, you know, like the old Fabio.

Paul Regnier: Cover.

Lindsay Franklin: No.

Paul Regnier: Kind of thing.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: But that was I felt like that was more of a piratey theme, if anything, like they would do like a swashbuckler, you know, kind of thing.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm. Mm.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: That's probably those they used to call them. Bodice Rippers.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep. That's what they called those. That's definitely like the 80s sort of precursor to romanticism.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, the pirate -y vibe. So it's funny that it's become fantasy now, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. But what I have found is that there are actually kind of very few readers who like coming new into the fantasy space, who are here because of Romantasy.

Lindsay Franklin: There aren't that many of them.

Paul Regnier: oh like they won't switch over to any other type of fantasy is that what you're saying

Lindsay Franklin: Well, no, I think that that's a small minority is what I what I was going to say is that it's like not too many of them who insist that they must have the kind of spicy stuff.

Paul Regnier: Oh.

Paul Regnier: Oh.

Lindsay Franklin: It might be what brought them here in the first place, because there are a couple of really, really big series right now that are just in that space where it's, you know, it's fantasy, but it's.

Lindsay Franklin: really romance and you know that's why they're here because they were previously romance readers but

Paul Regnier: Right.

Paul Regnier: oh so then they get hooked on fantasy genre oh that's kind of cool

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, they realize, yes, they realize, oh, wait, I actually like fantasy. I didn't think I liked fantasy, but I like the fantasy elements of this romance novel that I'm reading.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And so I find that they often are open to other types of fantasy stories.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Very few readers have I run across where they're like, nope. if there's no spice in it, I don't want to read it. I won't even give it a chance.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: Like it's not that many people in my experience. Maybe, maybe I'm, my experience is sort of self -selecting for people who are, are okay with my little green bell pepper, you know, stories, but um so that's possible, but I haven't found.

Paul Regnier: i Feel like that happened a lot with the Lord of the Rings movies too and those came out like a lot of people previously that were just like

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Paul Regnier: would never or or hadn't read a fantasy book suddenly they see this and they go oh my gosh this is cool like i want

Lindsay Franklin: Right.

Paul Regnier: more of this. This is like so interesting. So I think certain things that are big, like they bring

Lindsay Franklin: Yes I think that happened. Huge. Yeah.

Paul Regnier: a larger. you know, a larger swath swath of people in.

Lindsay Franklin: Sure. I think that Harry Potter probably did that for YA fantasy as well.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, totally.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, those those super, super big hits where people, you know, are kind of on the bandwagon to see what all the hype is about.

Paul Regnier: Right. Yes. Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And it's like, oh, I do actually like this. Maybe I do like. fantasy or speculative fiction or whatever so yeah I think that definitely does happen a lot which is awesome.

Paul Regnier: And we're sitting back going, look at these new fans.

Lindsay Franklin: I love it

Paul Regnier: I've been reading fantasy since I was a kid.

Lindsay Franklin: Back in my day.

Paul Regnier: you Yeah, you weekend fantasy readers.

Lindsay Franklin: but Oh my goodness.

Paul Regnier: Funny. Well, cool.

Lindsay Franklin: That's funny.

Paul Regnier: So um as far as like the traditional route, we kind of went on a long rabbit trail there.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes. Sorry, we went on quite a tangent.

Paul Regnier: um

Lindsay Franklin: Yes. So.

Paul Regnier: So there's there's that piece where it's like your particular publisher is... Pretty well defined. So that's nice. That's like.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm -hmm

Paul Regnier: a really it's like almost like a good advantage for any author. like signing with Enclave, but Now, is there beyond that?

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: Is there anything like that you do to kind of encourage the author on that path or like, how does that work?

Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, so we definitely have what I would call consultation is kind of the the word I would use rather than really helping.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: I don't know how much we're helping curate um for an author because it is so. personal with your your own brand identity like the author really does need to be driving that because it's it's about who you are and what you know art you want to produce and who you want to be online and your public persona and all of that is you know very that that's very personal I think um but

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: Our marketing director definitely consults with authors and talks about specifically stuff related to social media and what is you know wise to be putting out there. We have a number of authors who write at Enclave who write both science fiction and fantasy. And so that can be kind of tricky. If you've got a sci -fi coming out, you you maybe are not going to want to be.

Lindsay Franklin: posting a ton of fantasy related stuff. Like you, you need to probably have your socials being focused more in the sci -fi space because that's priming your readers that you hope. to get with your next.

Lindsay Franklin: book that is coming out. So it's not to say you can't do both, but it's just about being a smart strategist with how you are presenting yourself and what readers you are attracting in the six or 12 months leading up to that book's release.

Lindsay Franklin: so

Paul Regnier: Or you could be Ronnie Kendig and just mash it together in the same series.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. same Yeah, science fantasy. That is the answer, guys.

Paul Regnier: Science fantasy.

Lindsay Franklin: Space opera. Because, of course, space opera does tend to have, you know, like fantasy elements. And I love what Ronnie did in her.

Paul Regnier: What is it? Dressed Dorian? Am I saying that? What was the...

Lindsay Franklin: ah The Dreseran saga.

Paul Regnier: Dracerys, yeah, sorry.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, yes, you're close.

Paul Regnier: Dracerys, yeah, where it was like you're flying spaceships, but then you're ending up in castles and like, wait, what?

Lindsay Franklin: She had in that series one planet that kind of resisted the rise of technology and their culture was that they, you know, were like anti tech. And so there's all of this high tech sci fi.

Paul Regnier: Right. Luddites.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, all this high tech sci fi stuff going on in the world. And of course, she's got like, you know. 80 ,000 different POVs throughout the, you know, the course of the ah series.

Paul Regnier: yeah

Lindsay Franklin: But this one particular planet where our main character, one of our main characters comes from is that, you know, Luddite planet. And so it has a very fantasy feel to it, which of course, Ronnie has written high fantasy.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: She writes, you know, like military suspense and, you know, all kinds of different things. so

Paul Regnier: Yeah, she's hopped around quite a bit too if you think about it and made it work

Lindsay Franklin: A lot. She's... Yes, she's made it work. And I think she has she has a tagline. I think it's, is it rapid fire fiction? I want to say is her tagline.

Paul Regnier: Oh.

Lindsay Franklin: So that's a really smart branding branding thing for her because it encompasses her like suspense that she does.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: It encompasses her sci -fi and her fantasy can all kind of fit under that.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: um So it. That's a, it's a tricky thing to do, to be able to come up with a succinct one -liner or to even have your website visually present all of these different things.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: But she's definitely managed to to do that. um So yeah, that's fun.

Paul Regnier: Yeah. No, for sure.

Lindsay Franklin: That's a really fun, fun series.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: So that's cool. So as far as like the guidelines, that's that seems like.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: Is that about it? that as far as from the traditional.

Lindsay Franklin: I think, yeah, there's... For sure. I think there's definitely like support from your publisher. If they've got a publicist there, a marketing director, somebody you're working with, they they are likely to be consulting with you on that a little bit and helping you navigate that.

Lindsay Franklin: um I would say also your agent is somebody who can help you with that. If you're in the traditional space and you have an agent, that is somebody who could probably even go a little deeper if it is the type of agent who is going to...

Lindsay Franklin: like. who's there for your career rather than just helping you with contract language and that sort of thing. So ah the type of agent.

Paul Regnier: has your Has your agent ever, like... done anything or advised you of anything on author? I don't have an agent, so I'm curious like what that input is like.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, so I'm trying to think back in kind of our early. our early days. um When we had pitched my first fantasy series and gotten like a full round of rejections on it, then it was like, okay, what's next?

Lindsay Franklin: You know, what am I going to write next? And so I think I pitched her four different ideas and three of them were fantasy. And one was YA contemporary, and she picked the YA contemporary yeah for me to write.

Paul Regnier: Oh.

Lindsay Franklin: And I was like, oh, brand to pivot. Okay.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: And so i wrote I wrote that. And it actually ended up being such an important part of my journey and finding my voice and stuff.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: So even though I didn't end up ultimately in that space, it was a really good thing to do. um And it also helped me. branch out in my thinking a little bit where I started pitching like short stories to a magazine. They were looking for you know, fiction stories and um not necessarily open to fantasy, but looking for YA stuff.

Lindsay Franklin: So I thought, well. I just wrote a whole YA novel. I could write a YA short story. And i I ended up publishing like 40 different short stories with that magazine publisher.

Paul Regnier: Wow.

Lindsay Franklin: And um by the end, they actually let me because I'd worked with them for so many years at that point. And these were magazines that went along with like. um I want to say like a youth group kind of Bible study curriculum designed for high schoolers.

Lindsay Franklin: So that's my audience. That's who I'm speaking to. And by the end there, I had been working with this editor for years and I said.

Paul Regnier: Mm.

Lindsay Franklin: could I maybe do like a speculative, like, would you be open to that from me for this? And she said, sure, let's see what you got. And so um the last I think the last two stories I did.

Paul Regnier: Oh cool.

Lindsay Franklin: ah with her before they kind of, I think, stopped doing that curriculum um were speculative ideas. And one of them went on to win an award. I just remembered that at at an awards thing where they were accepting short fiction.

Paul Regnier: Nice.

Lindsay Franklin: And so, um you know, you just kind of never know where those brand experiments are going to take you. But um that was that was one where I am glad that that contemporary novel that I wrote didn't get acquired because that would have directed my brand in a way that would have been really.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: um

Paul Regnier: Tricky.

Lindsay Franklin: tricky for me because I would definitely want to come back to fantasy.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: That's my first love. um I don't know if that's the only thing I will ever.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: write always because I love a lot of different genres, but I can't see not writing fantasy at all would be really weird for me. So if that contemporary had been acquired and that became my debut novel, that would have been interesting.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: Like, what do we do now? And so that would have been a conversation with my agent for sure. Like, do we do a pen name?

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Do we, you know, do I publish YA contemporary under Lindsay Franklin and then maybe like fantasy under my maiden name or what with my initials or whatever, like that, that can help differentiate if you've got two very distinct brands and you want to.

Lindsay Franklin: do both but keep them very separate that can be a way to to handle that but um Yeah, that would have been interesting.

Paul Regnier: Speaking of which, speaking speaking of which, I know you did some nonfiction books too.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Yes.

Paul Regnier: but you didn't do a pen name so like how did you navigate that because that was sort of like

Lindsay Franklin: I did not.

Paul Regnier: quote -unquote off -brand or whatever.

Lindsay Franklin: Very, very much so. Even more so, I would say, than the YA contemporary fiction because it was nonfiction.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And the through line for me there is that I am. almost always talking to young adults. That's, that has been my audience for, you know, nearly 20 years now, though, that's who I'm talking to.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And again, that might not be true forever. As my kids grow up, I i kind of look at them and go, okay, maybe is it time for me to move into adult?

Paul Regnier: ah

Lindsay Franklin: Like, I don't know, like, you know, or am I maybe going to be the grandma who is talking to teens still? And that's okay. um You can definitely do that. But I haven't decided yet. So um I was still.

Paul Regnier: I know most of my characters are young, too. It's so weird. But it's like there that's where my head goes.

Lindsay Franklin: It's like

Paul Regnier: I don't know if.

Lindsay Franklin: Right?

Paul Regnier: That just means like young at heart or. I don't know

Lindsay Franklin: I, you know, and I think some of us like I would tell people my daughter when she was in middle school. And reading middle grade. And she she likes fantasy, but she really loves contemporary fiction. And that's kind of more her her genre. And so her favorite author when she was reading middle grade, and that's the age level she was at, was Sharon Draper.

Lindsay Franklin: She might have a middle initial, Sharon N. Draper or something. I don't know. But Sharon Draper. And um my daughter loved all of her, everything she read of her, she loved. And that author, I think, is in her 70s or 80s.

Lindsay Franklin: I want to say 70s.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And still writing for this middle grade audience. And it was hitting with my Gen Z, you know, 11 -year -old daughter or whatever.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Paul Regnier: Wow. That's cool.

Lindsay Franklin: She she loved it. and And that was her favorite author. so If you are.

Paul Regnier: Well, part of it too, like if you think of characters going on an adventure.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: you're not going to have a 70 year old. Going on a fantasy quest like Ah, my back.

Lindsay Franklin: That's Probably not.

Paul Regnier: The sword is too heavy. One swing and I need to see my chiropractor.

Lindsay Franklin: is

Paul Regnier: You know, you can't, it just won't work.

Lindsay Franklin: Ha ha. Yeah, that's true.

Paul Regnier: So it's like there's a practical aspect to it too.

Lindsay Franklin: there There definitely is. And you know my feeling is that if you are... called into a specific space like that, or you are equipped to write for a particular audience, then it doesn't matter when we're talking age categories, it doesn't matter how old you are, as long as you are still connected to that audience, and you're still dialed in with what they're going through in their lives at that, you know, at that time, then you're still going to be able to speak to them.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: So

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: My question. really for me and my brand is, you know. Do I still want to speak into that moment in people's lives of adolescence and coming of age?

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: and that's That's why I always return to YA both in my fiction and my nonfiction is because that that time period in a person's life is so...

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: hard and pivotal and complex.

Paul Regnier: Hmm. Mm -hmm. Right.

Lindsay Franklin: And there's so much happening psychologically and emotionally and even physically, like just a lot. There's a lot going on during adolescence. And so a lot of what I

Paul Regnier: Which lends itself to a good story and and like character arc and character development, right?

Lindsay Franklin: Yes. Yes. Yep. yep

Paul Regnier: Because you get into the older generations, like...

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: people get pretty set in their way. So it's a lot harder to get a...

Lindsay Franklin: They do. They do.

Paul Regnier: a really drastic character arc for something like that.

Lindsay Franklin: ah

Paul Regnier: I don't know.

Lindsay Franklin: And it's.

Paul Regnier: You'd have to. do something different.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. It's kind of less of a time of. transition and growth.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And, you know, not that those things can't happen. Of course they can. And we could probably, you know, list a billion examples of adult.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: fiction you know where of course but kind of by nature by default there is a lot of growth and change and expansion that happens during adolescence and so

Paul Regnier: Sure. Sure.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Yep.

Lindsay Franklin: I just keep coming back to that as a writer. And so when the nonfiction opportunities presented themselves to me, even though it's very off -brand in a sense, it spoke to my soul in the same way where it was.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And my nonfiction books are devotional books for fourteen teens. And the first two were specifically for teen girls.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And then the other two are for guys or girls. and so That, you know, especially as I'm a mom.

Paul Regnier: Oh, you did four? You wrote four?

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, I did um I wrote four and three of those were 365 day devotionals.

Paul Regnier: Wow.

Lindsay Franklin: So I have written.

Paul Regnier: Okay.

Lindsay Franklin: hundreds and hundreds of devotionals little little things little little snippets um so that yeah that was quite an exercise in writing tight when you have like 150 words or 200 words or something to try to make like a deep point about anything

Paul Regnier: Wow.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Right. sum up a deep Thought, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: Right. A theological something. um But so from. the branding side of things with that. So it definitely spoke to my soul as a writer. It spoke to me as a mom and all of that. So that's why I said, absolutely, I would love to do those projects. But My contracts for those projects were a little bit different, where it was more like my publishers giving me an assignment and saying, this is what we want you to write, rather than me sitting there with my proposal and my idea and coming to them and pitching.

Lindsay Franklin: like That's not the way it worked. It was kind of the reverse, where they're giving me an assignment.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And so the contract is different and the expectations are not that I then kind of sell them in the same way that you sell your books or promote your books online um as an author. Like I don't have to do that with my nonfiction contracts. That is my publisher's responsibility, 100 % to do that. So um I had a choice if I wanted to even talk about them at all. And I i do talk about them. but um They are not really part of my online presence.

Lindsay Franklin: And that is how I have handled that, the brand disparity.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: I definitely don't hide it. And if I'm teaching on something, especially something that is related to faith or spiritual life or anything like that, I will certainly talk about that work that I've done.

Lindsay Franklin: um but I'm not going to be kind of promoting those books in the same space I'm promoting my novels because I think that brand confusion would arise because even though I am a Christian author and I work for a Christian publisher and all of those things, my books are less overtly Christian than some enclave books.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: we Our books are on a spectrum and some are very overtly Christian and others it's extremely subtle.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And I'm not on the far end of extremely subtle, but I'm closer to that end. And so I think that if people see you know if people see devotional books, they're going to expect Christian fiction.

Paul Regnier: Yeah. Me too.

Lindsay Franklin: and

Paul Regnier: Sure.

Lindsay Franklin: be potentially disappointed or confused when they read my books.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: Or if that's not what they're looking for in their fiction, they're going to just... bypass my books altogether, my fiction books altogether, when maybe that would have really hit for them. And so I think that some brand confusion would ensue.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And that's kind of the main reason why I don't have my devotional books on my website. It's not a secret. I'm not hiding it at all. Like I will talk about them. I'm not ashamed of them in any way. It's just, I don't want to.

Lindsay Franklin: make my potential readers confused about what they're going to get when they pick up one of my novels. That's that's why.

Paul Regnier: And what was and what how did you decide to? Just use your normal author name rather than going with a pen name for those.

Lindsay Franklin: So the first two books that I did, so the very first contract I signed, my name was not even going to be on the front cover. And it's not.

Paul Regnier: Mmm.

Lindsay Franklin: If you pull out those books, that if if our listeners want to see, the first one is called Adored, um Adored 365. Devotions for Young Women or something like that.

Lindsay Franklin: The subtitle, I'm not 100 % sure. But if you search Adored 365, it'll come up. And the second one is Beloved. And those two books, my my name is on the inside of, you know, if you open it up, my name is in there and I'm credited, but it's not on the cover.

Lindsay Franklin: um and

Paul Regnier: Oh, interesting. Okay.

Lindsay Franklin: So it wasn't. As much of a conversation as you might imagine. um If my contracts had been different and if I was building a separate.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: brand where it's like, this is my nonfiction devotional writing.

Paul Regnier: Ahem.

Lindsay Franklin: author self and kind of creating that, that offshoot of my identity.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: I would have probably chosen to do a pen name. And if you know the contract expectations were different and I was trying to build something else over there.

Paul Regnier: Right.

Paul Regnier: So that makes sense. You almost looked at it as like this is a one -off, even though it was four books. It was kind of this is this one -off project, but it's not going to be this ongoing part of my...

Lindsay Franklin: Right.

Lindsay Franklin: Right.

Paul Regnier: identity as an author.

Lindsay Franklin: Exactly, exactly.

Paul Regnier: Okay, that makes sense.

Lindsay Franklin: And so if I ever do transition to adult fiction, or if I ever go, you know, outside of um the fantasy space and kind of do something really different, I would definitely consider doing a pen name for that.

Lindsay Franklin: Because at this point, I have firmly established myself as a YA fantasy author.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And so I don't want people to be confused. And what I would probably do is if I was writing adult fantasy, I might do something that is just like my first two initials, because my YA fantasy name is Lindsay A.

Lindsay Franklin: Franklin. So maybe I would be LA Franklin, which sounds very SoCal.

Paul Regnier: L .A. Franklin. Ha ha.

Lindsay Franklin: LA Brinkman.

Paul Regnier: ah

Lindsay Franklin: Maybe not. ah So maybe I would do that if I were going to do adult ah fantasy. So something where it's connected. People know it's still me. But if anything says L .A. Franklin on it, that's adult. And if it says Lindsay A. Franklin, that's going to be YA. It's all about communicating to the reader.

Lindsay Franklin: what this is and what they can expect so they know if it's for them or not.

Paul Regnier: I think you should just write a lit RPG and throw everyone.

Lindsay Franklin: You know, I'm going to come in with like the like a military sci -fi or something.

Paul Regnier: Ha!

Lindsay Franklin: It's just so out of pocket. People are like. What?

Paul Regnier: Space Marines.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, Space Marines.

Paul Regnier: Bye -bye. A new book by Lindsay Franklin. um Very good. I think we've, have we covered all the bases on this whole thing, on this whole author brand?

Lindsay Franklin: I think so I think so.

Paul Regnier: Mystery. ah

Lindsay Franklin: the The whole, the mysterious, elusive author brand. It's it's really not as, um you know, kind of nebulous as it seems at first. I think when you really get down to understanding that it's about your.

Lindsay Franklin: identity as an author and how all of those pieces, the the art you're creating.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, what people think of when they say

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: a new Lindsay Franklin book is out, like what comes to their mind, like the type of book, right?

Lindsay Franklin: Exactly.

Paul Regnier: That's probably the main thing.

Lindsay Franklin: Exactly.

Paul Regnier: Do you have a logo for your name?

Lindsay Franklin: um So I have... I've been on such a journey with With this over the years, but um I have a, yes, I have something it's on my website and it's kind of recently redesigned um within the last couple of years and I really like it because it does, it has a little bit of the throwback to that.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: just slightly gothic uh that that aesthetic and just a little bit because it's not like i'm

Paul Regnier: How did I know you'd work some goth back into things?

Lindsay Franklin: but back into it. And that has been something that is, has sometimes been missing from my branding and probably like three or four years ago. And this is a hundred percent my fault, not the designer's fault I was working with, but I wanted to rebrand and refresh because it had been a number of years.

Lindsay Franklin: And we had this whole consultation, did a whole thing and went through a lot of different options and that she's going based on what I'm telling her. Right. And so we're trying to get down and drill down into what it is.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And what we ended up with was very. pretty. And I redesigned my whole website around it. But. The more I looked at it, the more I was like, it it's not me at all.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: Like the colors were not me. The vibe of it was too something.

Paul Regnier: Interesting.

Lindsay Franklin: It it was not me. And so I felt so bad because she had worked really hard and it wasn't her fault. it was She was going off of what I was telling her. But um it's like I had to see it on the website and go, nope.

Lindsay Franklin: it's not me I needed something that had a totally different color palette something that had a little sprinkle of the goth back in a little sprinkle of sparkle back in like but it that that whole experience really did help me define uh something that wasn't me and something that wasn't right and so it helped me direct my next designer I was too embarrassed to go back to her and be like hey just kidding can I hire you again I couldn't do it so

Paul Regnier: That is one of the worst graphic design clients you could...

Lindsay Franklin: Oh, it's awful.

Paul Regnier: I used to be a web designer and when they'd be like, you know, I'll know what I want when I see it.

Lindsay Franklin: Oh my gosh.

Paul Regnier: I'd be like, okay, that doesn't help me at all. Like, I don't know.

Lindsay Franklin: Nope. Nope. And my dad was a... professional graphic designer, like my whole childhood, I grew up watching him do that work. And so I know how annoying I'd be, you know, and I thought I was definitely somebody who I was giving direction.

Paul Regnier: How frustrating.

Lindsay Franklin: It's just I was giving her bad direction. And so it 100 % my fault.

Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: um But I was too embarrassed.

Paul Regnier: The best thing for that ive I've found when it comes to either the the website or or your book cover is like.

Lindsay Franklin: as you go back

Paul Regnier: Find me like your three to five favorite ones. that you like the vibe and you want your vibe to be similar.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep. Yep. Yep.

Paul Regnier: That's a really good starting place. I think for that kind of stuff

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: So.

Lindsay Franklin: And that was something that I had even. done in this process, the failure for me was in communicating exactly why. I liked the the examples that I pulled because there were elements that like, I completely see if I look back retro retrospectively, I see how we got from where we started to where we ended up um because I see what she was seeing. And it was my failure to say what I like about this example that I pulled.

Lindsay Franklin: Are these elements not necessarily the colors or not necessarily these aspects of it?

Paul Regnier: Hmm. mm -hmm

Lindsay Franklin: So um it really did help me refine. so much better how I should be communicating to the professionals I'm working with and exactly what I wanted. And it had been years since I had redone my branding. So um you know it And it was also something I was doing.

Lindsay Franklin: with my like my second series had been signed and we maybe even had did we have cover art Maybe when we I was trying to do this the first time, possibly. So I was trying to incorporate having multiple book series to sort of work with.

Paul Regnier: Hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: And so there's just a lot going on um with it. but that That process definitely helped me refine what I was going to ask the second designer for when redoing my website and my logo.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: So yes, if you go to my website now, you will see something that I do feel. is me. It it represents my vibe and my brand. Well. in my opinion.

Paul Regnier: Cool. Well, there you go.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: See your author branding is like...

Lindsay Franklin: Eh!

Paul Regnier: Like...

Lindsay Franklin: but

Paul Regnier: Come in narrowing in, you know.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep. Yep.

Paul Regnier: Stay on target.

Lindsay Franklin: Refining.

Paul Regnier: Um, Very good. Okay. Well, we're we're over an hour here, so I think we should wrap it up.

Lindsay Franklin: Awesome. Hey.

Paul Regnier: Is there is there any Lindsay Franklin final thoughts? one. Author branding.

Lindsay Franklin: Okay, something profound. Okay, no, it's not gonna be profound, but it'll be something.

Paul Regnier: Yes.

Lindsay Franklin: um It'll be a sentence.

Paul Regnier: Something incredibly profound that sums up everything.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: And go.

Lindsay Franklin: Okay. So when it comes to this, is it helpful if you can? Kind of stay in your lane and be real defined with it. Sure. But. The bottom line is that you. As an artist.

Lindsay Franklin: have to do what is going to be creatively sustainable for you. And if it is going to kill the joy.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: in your writing to try to shove yourself into a narrow box or force yourself into a very narrow lane for the sake of branding.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: Don't do it because what is the point? If you don't, if you lose the joy of telling stories and putting your work out up there, then who cares? If you're so narrowly defined and it's all perfect for the marketing and the branding, who cares if that's going to make you die creatively?

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Okay. Can I interrupt you for a second?

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: And I hate to interrupt you because you're on a roll here, but that was that's such an important point.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: And I have to say, when you listen to... marketers. and the numbers people. And the people that say, hey, if you want to turn your... you know you're writing into a business.

Paul Regnier: That. That is something that they will always put down, what you just said. especially if they're not an author themselves. I mean, not a fiction author, i I would say, because they might put out books on marketing and things like that.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: But when it comes to writing fiction, that is such an important point that is left out.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: Or even like... um put down almost.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: like from some of the marketing people. And they're giving great marketing advice, but it's just they to them.

Lindsay Franklin: Sure.

Paul Regnier: your it When you say something like that, it's antithetical to... ah Like. business and marketing. And it kind of is in a way, I guess, because the those two are...

Lindsay Franklin: Right. Sure.

Paul Regnier: kind of in a little bit of a clash.

Lindsay Franklin: Right.

Paul Regnier: um

Lindsay Franklin: they're They're thinking business.

Paul Regnier: But man, it's... So true. It's so true.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: And you have to cling to that. And I would just encourage all the writers out there because you're going to get discouraged when you hear. the number of business marketing people. put that down. And you'll hear that and you're like, oh. okay, I guess I'm messing up. I guess I should really.

Paul Regnier: Like. switch and and and and get things in order and run my writing like a business and stop running it like a hobby or or they'll even say it's... um Gosh, I heard one podcaster say.

Paul Regnier: to do what you just said. is um oh man, this this made me so mad. They said it was like self -indulgent or self -absorbed or something.

Lindsay Franklin: Mm. Mm hmm.

Paul Regnier: Like, oh, you you just think you're this fancy fancy artist that like, oh, don't disturb me.

Lindsay Franklin: ah

Paul Regnier: You know, i'm i'm ah I'm a delicate genius. I'm coming up. You know, like they were painting that kind of.

Lindsay Franklin: Oh goodness.

Paul Regnier: picture. I'm like, that's not fair.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Like, that's not true.

Lindsay Franklin: No. No.

Paul Regnier: Like. Good grief.

Lindsay Franklin: it's It's not that.

Paul Regnier: i'm like I'm not some French painter in the countryside going, get the away, I'm a genius. you know like They want to paint you into that kind of role. And it just so anyways, I just wanted to.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Talk about that point for a second because... I've been annoyed lately hearing some of that vibe.

Lindsay Franklin: it

Paul Regnier: so Okay, go ahead.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, that's no that's such a great point.

Paul Regnier: Sorry.

Lindsay Franklin: And I love ending on this note, actually, because it's it's not about being precious. We're not trying to be precious about our art.

Paul Regnier: Right. Yes.

Lindsay Franklin: that It's not that.

Paul Regnier: We're not.

Lindsay Franklin: It's trying.

Paul Regnier: It's truth.

Lindsay Franklin: to make it.

Paul Regnier: It's being true to it.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes, it's trying to make it sustainable and something that we. want to and are able to keep doing long term. And if you are forcing yourself into a creative box simply for the sake of the business, if you are comfortable and happy there creatively in a narrow lane, that is 100 % fine.

Paul Regnier: Yes.

Lindsay Franklin: We're not saying that to be a real artist, you have to go out of the lane. No, you you have to be you.

Paul Regnier: Right. Exactly.

Lindsay Franklin: You have to be you.

Paul Regnier: Yes.

Lindsay Franklin: And so if you are a person who needs to be able to have some creative freedom in order to feel fulfilled as a writer, then you have to allow yourself to do that.

Lindsay Franklin: Just be intentional about what the through lines are in your fiction, because I assure you, unless you are extremely scattered and all over the place, there will be through lines because you are you, no matter what you're sitting down to write, you are you.

Paul Regnier: Mm hmm. Yes. Right.

Lindsay Franklin: so isolate those things, listen to your readers. What do they pull out of your stories and talk about from genre to genre, from book to book in your reviews? What are the things that readers highlight?

Lindsay Franklin: Because that is going to tell you what your through lines are and focus your branding on that and be intentional about it.

Paul Regnier: Mm -hmm.

Lindsay Franklin: Then you can go outside of your genre and do do different things. But it's we have to be able to be fulfilled. and and Otherwise, we're going to give up.

Lindsay Franklin: This business is too hard. And we if you're dead inside creatively, there is literally no point.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: And what you produce, fiction -wise, is not going to hit with readers anyway if you're just like becoming this machine that is just trying to produce stuff because it's going to sell or whatever.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: i I don't think that that's going to really, really hit with readers who have connected with your heart at some point. so Yeah, we're not trying to be precious. We are just trying to be like people who are doing this for the long term.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: We're in it for the long haul.

Paul Regnier: Yeah.

Lindsay Franklin: So how do we do this so that it is sustainable?

Paul Regnier: And you won't feel fulfilled either. And like if you if you finish a book and you're like, huh.

Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.

Paul Regnier: I guess that was good marketing wise, but. Now I'm dead inside. You know, it's just, if you can finish a book, even if it doesn't do well.

Lindsay Franklin: right right Yep.

Paul Regnier: But you can look back and go, I still love that story. Like I still love how it turned out.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: I'm so happy. with what I was able to create. And even if it's just a handful of people that were like, oh man, that book really spoke to me and that resonated with me. That's a success.

Paul Regnier: You know, it's not all about dollars.

Lindsay Franklin: Yep.

Paul Regnier: It's just, it's about like. being true to the story that you wanted to write and doing it like in a way that you're like, yes, like I nailed it. like, that's really cool. That's exactly what I wanted to write, you know.

Paul Regnier: That's part of success too.

Lindsay Franklin: Yes.

Paul Regnier: sometimes we define success too narrowly or too like

Lindsay Franklin: 100%.

Paul Regnier: number -wise, but...

Lindsay Franklin: I agree.

Paul Regnier: Anyways, well that... That's probably a good place to end it, right?

Lindsay Franklin: Yes. Love it.

Paul Regnier: ah All right. Thank you, everyone, for listening. Sorry about... the rant, but. you know. We're passionate. We're artists. We are painting on a hill. Don't just disturb our genius. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening. Have a, have a great rest of your day and we'll see you next time.

Lindsay Franklin: Bye.