Transcript
Paul Regnier: Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Paul Regner.
Lindsay Franklin: And I'm Lindsay Franklin.
Paul Regnier: And today we are introducing a new feature on the show, a recurring feature. It is called Writing Wizardry. And the concept of this, let's see if I can explain this right, Lindsay.
Lindsay Franklin: Yay!
Paul Regnier: It is... I'm going to mess up. everyone Everyone's going to, what? What is this? So what we're trying to do is we're trying to take typical. writing techniques that you have to do, things you have to do in your story that can sometimes be difficult.
Paul Regnier: Right. So.
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: For example, today we're going to talk about exposition. and character intro. These are things you have to do in any book. And what we... plan on doing is is picking some examples from books and movies and TV.
Paul Regnier: um that have done it well.
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: And they can serve as like great examples for you moving forward if you're having trouble with these things like, oh yeah, they did it well in this. movie or story or whatever it is yeah so that's what we're doing today it's going to be recurring theme um that we're going to do in future episodes with um other writing topics.
Paul Regnier: ah And, but before we do that, also, I wanted to mention this is episode 25, Lindsay. I don't know if I told you that before.
Lindsay Franklin: yeah Yay!
Paul Regnier: So that's kind of like a milestone, right?
Lindsay Franklin: No.
Paul Regnier: 25.
Lindsay Franklin: It is. Wow.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Wow.
Paul Regnier: Did you know that 80 % of podcasts don't make it past 25 episodes?
Lindsay Franklin: but Well, here we are. And we're ready.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And we've got this whole recurring series idea now. So we're we're still going strong, guys.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Love that.
Paul Regnier: Actually, I just made up that stat, but but I think there is. But I think there is actually something like that.
Lindsay Franklin: paul
Paul Regnier: But I said it so straight face, I wanted to see if I could slide it past you.
Lindsay Franklin: i believed you. I believed you 100%. You know what? I'm done. before The show's over.
Paul Regnier: Ha ha. I will never trust you again.
Lindsay Franklin: We're done. ah ah
Paul Regnier: No, but I think there is something like that, that ah that a lot of podcasts don't make it.
Lindsay Franklin: um
Paul Regnier: I think the thing is a lot of podcasts never make it past seven episodes. I think that's the actual thing.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep. that track.
Paul Regnier: But I just.
Lindsay Franklin: So we're well beyond that already.
Paul Regnier: We are. We're doing well.
Lindsay Franklin: We're winning.
Paul Regnier: Okay, but so before we get going... I have a little author plug of my own. I just released a book. a few weeks ago. And I'm going to have to move my microphone a little bit.
Paul Regnier: There it is. it's The Agency of Magic and Mythical Creatures 2. This is a sequel.
Lindsay Franklin: Yay! yea
Paul Regnier: to my middle grade portal fantasy. And I have my first one. I'm going to see if I can. put them both up. can you see both of those
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, they are both visible. I love those covers so much.
Paul Regnier: Yes. Aren't they cool? This is da Monza.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: See now they're riding on a skeletal dragon on the second one.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: so
Lindsay Franklin: It's so cool. You all have to pop over to YouTube if you want to see the covers or just go to Paul's website or go to Amazon and search that title.
Paul Regnier: yeah Just go straight to Amazon.
Lindsay Franklin: It's straight to Amazon.
Paul Regnier: Just buy them.
Lindsay Franklin: Straight to Amazon.
Paul Regnier: but
Lindsay Franklin: Click add to cart.
Paul Regnier: Yes, exactly.
Lindsay Franklin: There you go. ah
Paul Regnier: Exactly. Okay. So. back to Back to the topic at hand. So again, we're talking about exposition and character intro.
Paul Regnier: I think character intro is kind of self -explanatory, but exposition.
Lindsay Franklin: he
Paul Regnier: Lindsay, what does this mean? What is exposition?
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, and character intro is such a closely tied concept. It's sort of almost like a subtype of exposition in a way, um because in the context of storytelling, exposition means the introduction of background information um that the reader needs in order to understand the story and understand what's going on.
Lindsay Franklin: And I would even add to that. kind of dictionary definition. um In order to sort of emotionally engage with the story, we need some of that exposition.
Lindsay Franklin: So so there are different ah types or different elements of exposition. And that kind of character setup is part of it. And the characterization is part of it.
Lindsay Franklin: There's also a setting slash world building. There's backstory, which of course is very closely tied with character as well.
Paul Regnier: Mm -hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: And then there is content.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: for what is happening within that story. um You know, the like, what is happening? What's going on? What ah what are we? witnessing unfold in this story, the the context that supports the plot of what's happening, um that would all kind of fall under the umbrella of exposition.
Paul Regnier: Right. and and And often this is the part where...
Paul Regnier: we're always warned when we go to these writing classes and or we're reading these craft books and they're saying like this can totally slow down the story if you go into this lengthy explanation of how the world works how the magic system works whatever it is and you're sitting there going okay like let's get on with the story like you're spending five pages talking about your magic system or whatever it is you know what i mean it's so it's an easy way that we can like trip up in a story and like
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Lindsay Franklin: this Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: bring everything to a screeching halt and and we always want that momentum that energy where people are like okay cool what happens next let's keep going and this has got good energy
Lindsay Franklin: Right.
Paul Regnier: So it's tricky. um And that's why it's great to find good examples. and I'll start it off with an example i've I've always thought. is like the best i've ever seen exposition done which was in a movie called source code And I know this is a writing podcast.
Paul Regnier: You're like movie. Aren't you talking about books? But hey, movies were written too in a screenplay format. So everything starts.
Lindsay Franklin: That's true.
Paul Regnier: Written. and But just...
Lindsay Franklin: Written. That's true.
Paul Regnier: Some things are delivered different through different media, through visual. means, but it all started as a written story. so um source code. uh for those who haven't seen it you Definitely should. it's a great movie Top 10 of my favorite science fiction movies. It's got a bit of a...
Paul Regnier: Groundhog Day kind of repeating thing. Um, And that's part of the thing. So it starts off with the the main characters. Jake Gyllenhaal. plays the main character. He's on a train and he's sitting across from this woman.
Paul Regnier: and he's just kind of it's like almost like he's waking up and he sees her and she's just talking to him like they're in the middle of a conversation and he's like uh who are you what and she's like oh stop kidding around what are you talking and then he's like he doesn't know yeah how he got on this train he doesn't and so he just like gets up goes to the bathroom looks in the mirror it's a different face looking back in the mirror and he's like what in the world is happening And as he's trying to figure all this out, the train explodes.
Paul Regnier: And then he ends up in this like weird space capsule and this. military screen someone military is trying to contact him on a screen and the whole time you're watching this you're like what in the world is happening i thought this guy just blew up
Paul Regnier: and then they're like oh you need to go back to the mission you need to go back and Did you see who put the bomb on the train? Like, what? What are you talking about? Oh, you need to go. You need to find the way. way I need to be debriefed. ah No, we don't have no time. We have no time. You got to go back. OK, we're sending you back in. Boom. He's right back on the train. Same lady, same conversation. So it's like repeating. And you're sitting there as a viewer going, what is happening? Like, tell me what's going on. So I think they do it like three times before. And he, as the main character is like.
Paul Regnier: debris I need a debriefing because he's in the military. So it was like, tell me what's going on. I need, what's the mission? And you as the viewer is right along with him going, yeah, explain, tell me, tell me. And so when they finally do, they launch into the exposition and you're practically begging for it at this time.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: Like, yeah, tell me what's going on. Which I thought, oh my gosh, that's a genius. Because normally you think I have to explain what's going on before it starts.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: or else everyone's going to be confused and mad and they're not knowing what's going on and but this this movie did it in such a great way to give you just enough to where it's almost like a mystery, right?
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: Just enough to be like, oh. Okay. he's a military and he's talking to mills. So it's a military operation, but why is he repeating? How is this working? So it gives you just enough where you're not. Totally out of it.
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: but it holds it back long enough to where you're just like dying to know what's happening And you want that exposition when, that so they, they. could totally take their time because you're sitting there.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Tell me more.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh.
Paul Regnier: Explain. I want to know. So anyways, I thought that was a really fantastic way. of doing exposition. in such a unique and dynamic and um And in no way did it slow down any of the momentum of the story because you're already so fully invested in this story.
Paul Regnier: But yeah, so that's that's always an example I go back to and I'm like, man, that's exposition done like so well.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, they really, I love this example because they almost. weaponized the ah disorientation, right? Like the characters disorientation.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: is also the viewing audience's disorientation. And so that's why you're you're begging for it.
Paul Regnier: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: They really effectively exploited that. I know weaponized and exploited, those sound like negative words and I don't mean them negatively.
Paul Regnier: ah
Lindsay Franklin: it's it's I just mean they were really effective with the way that they did that.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: They exploited it in a really, really good way to make make the audience.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: want that. um you know what if you If you put that same... exposition at the start of the movie without having any of those other scenes that preceded it it would be an info dump right and that's that's what we're always told to avoid so the
Paul Regnier: Right.
Paul Regnier: That's the word you always hear info dump same thing.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes. Info dump.
Paul Regnier: Yeah
Lindsay Franklin: Yep. And I would always describe it like if I'm teaching or working with, ah you know, editing clients back in the day, I would always say it's like having a Wikipedia article just dropped in the story where it's like, and and it's not that you can't do that.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And I think that some of our examples are showing that. You can, but you have to create the desire for it. You have to make your reader care before you are able to do that.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And you can also, there's other ways to do this effectively where you can weave things in and introduce things very subtly. Like there are a lot of different techniques you can use. So hopefully some of our examples will.
Lindsay Franklin: like cover the the whole spectrum of how how we can do this because the the goal is not to have no exposition. all All of those things that I listed at the top of the episode, are that's all important.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: We need those elements in our story. So the question is, how do we do this effectively? And source code is a great example of just creating that demand for the exposition in.
Lindsay Franklin: the viewer. um
Paul Regnier: And speculative fiction, it it it requires even more.
Lindsay Franklin: So, yeah.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: Because whether it's a fantasy world you built or a science fiction world, it's like you have to explain it even more.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: I think I told you like when I. I took a break from... uh Like... my more speculative stuff and i did cozy mystery i'm like oh this is so easy like Oh, he went into a grocery store.
Paul Regnier: Everyone knows what a grocery store is.
Lindsay Franklin: Okay.
Paul Regnier: He bought bread and milk. Everyone knows these things.
Lindsay Franklin: Don't have to explain it.
Paul Regnier: I don't have to explain like, you know.
Lindsay Franklin: Don't have to explain it.
Paul Regnier: how the thrusters work in the spaceship or any of that kind of stuff.
Lindsay Franklin: ah Yeah, we've we've totally talked about that before on the show where for those of us who are used to writing speculative fiction and having to be.
Paul Regnier: But. um
Lindsay Franklin: creative and how we introduce these these sorts of things, how we introduce that context, how we, um you know.
Lindsay Franklin: explain to the reader what's going on in this world without doing the wikipedia info dump um it's it's very weird to switch gears and write something that's contemporary where you still have um you still have the ah backstory type traps and the character introductions that all is still very relevant and like novelists can still fall into those traps but when it comes to explaining the world there's a lot less heavy lifting to do if it's just the real world that everybody's familiar with because yeah you can say grocery store you can say went to the high school over there or whatever.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And people.
Paul Regnier: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: just have an immediate understanding of what that is. So it does not require exposition, but our fantastical speculative worlds do require a lot more.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So spec authors, we have to get really good at this.
Paul Regnier: We're making our job harder.
Lindsay Franklin: That's right. um And when you were talking about source code, another couple of examples that maybe live in the same neighborhood that came to mind for me were Memento.
Lindsay Franklin: um Kind of, I feel like that movie does a similar thing. And that story is really interesting because it's told backwards. um
Paul Regnier: No, I haven't seen it
Lindsay Franklin: Oh my gosh. Okay. I think you might like that.
Paul Regnier: Hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: That feels like a Paul movie to me. So you should watch Memento. um
Paul Regnier: is it Would it be like a science fiction -y kind of story?
Lindsay Franklin: ah Kind of, yes.
Paul Regnier: Okay.
Lindsay Franklin: It might really, oh gosh, it's been so many years since I've seen it. I remember really liking it when I saw it, but it it's told backwards and it's a little bit brutal. It's a sort of like thriller thing.
Lindsay Franklin: um But, you know, you basically start the movie at the end of the story, if that makes sense.
Paul Regnier: Okay.
Lindsay Franklin: And, you know, our main character, he's got stuff like tattooed on his body and he has lost his memory.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: So this story is being told in reverse order, and he's trying to find who killed his wife.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And so it's it's very fascinating, even if it's not.
Paul Regnier: Okay.
Lindsay Franklin: you know ah like somebody's particular taste with um movies.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It's a very fascinating film to watch as a storyteller to see how they did that. How did they tell this story backwards? And it's very engaging and um interesting. so
Paul Regnier: they do those little trick I see those little tricks in shows all the time where they start.
Lindsay Franklin: with me
Paul Regnier: with like some crazy thing like all the characters you know and they're in this crazy situation you know they're surrounded by cops oh freeze you know and and they're all they're like holding bags of money in a bank or something you're like how did this happen and then ah you get to the black screen that says five days earlier you know and then it and then
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: Right, right. The kind of rewind.
Paul Regnier: yeah so it's almost like that little gimmick to like hook you like okay how did they get there
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Mm hmm. You used to see that in book prologues too.
Paul Regnier: So.
Lindsay Franklin: That used to be a thing.
Paul Regnier: Ah.
Lindsay Franklin: And maybe it still is. it I don't know.
Paul Regnier: I haven't seen that in a while.
Lindsay Franklin: i I feel like it's something they used to do.
Paul Regnier: yeah But why not, right?
Lindsay Franklin: yeah They used to do that kind of in. crime fiction a lot or, you know, like those kind of stories where they would have um or like like murder, not even murder mystery, but like I'm thinking like serial killer stories.
Paul Regnier: Mmm. Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: I don't know if that's quite the right word for it, but where.
Paul Regnier: Like detective.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, where they would drop you in to a scene that is going to occur later in the the story and kind of use that as the prologue.
Paul Regnier: Kind of stuff.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: I used to see that. in my mom's books all the time, but I would like flip through her detective stories when I was a kid. um They would have that a lot where you get like a scene where the killer is like threatening your main character detective or something, and then chapter one starts and we get the whole story of how they got into that that situation.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: How they got there, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: So you do see that in TV a lot more, I think. And the memento is interesting because it... doesn't do the thing where it starts with that.
Lindsay Franklin: um starts with a scene from the middle of the story, it actually starts at the end and the whole movie is told in reverse. So you are working backwards the entire time. It's really fascinating.
Lindsay Franklin: So yeah, kind of brutal story if I recall correctly.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: but um So just keep that in mind. It is rated R, guys. But it's yeah but it's it's really interesting storytelling.
Paul Regnier: Okay.
Lindsay Franklin: um The other one that came to mind was
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: The Bourne Identity? Maybe?
Paul Regnier: Oh yeah, right.
Lindsay Franklin: kind of employs some of those similar similar techniques where the...
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: if i'm If I'm remembering correctly, sorry, guys, it's been a long time since I've seen that one. But that came to mind as you were talking about source code, where it was like, he didn't have the character, did not have context about who he was.
Lindsay Franklin: And he's in these very high stress situations. He's like running for his life and trying to figure out who he is.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: so
Paul Regnier: that was a great That was a great hook for...
Lindsay Franklin: Amen.
Paul Regnier: the classic movie you've seen a hundred times where it's like the special ops guy is in trouble, right?
Lindsay Franklin: Peace.
Paul Regnier: And people are coming after him, but like, yeah, here's a special ops guy, but he's got amnesia and he doesn't even remember all his skills, but suddenly they're coming back like, oh no, this guy's coming at me.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm -hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: you
Paul Regnier: Wait, I know Kung Fu, you know, all that kind of.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: You know, there's the classic scene where he goes into the restaurant, right? And he's like... Why do I know every license plate in the parking lot by heart?
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: And I know that guy sitting over there. can handle himself in a fight and this person and he's just like has already done Like. at a trained kind of surveillance because he's a special ops guy.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: I thought that was a, that was a really tricky way to that's so that's another thing too, because you're almost begging to know. Who is this guy?
Lindsay Franklin: Mm -hmm.
Paul Regnier: Tell me more. So that's a good trick too for exposition. And you just reminded me of another one.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: This is a movie I didn't really think. i didn't really care for that much i loved the idea of it but when i saw it i'm kind of like you know um which was cowboys and aliens i don't know if you ever saw that
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: o
Paul Regnier: That was with Harrison Ford was in that and Daniel Craig was the main character.
Lindsay Franklin: gosh Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Um, But I loved the beginning because it's like a Western, right? But you're mixing aliens. So it's funny. You're like smashing genres together.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: But it starts with him. He's... like this cowboy in the middle of kind of like a desert or wilderness and he wakes up and he's got this crazy like Science fiction thing on his arm like all the way down his forearm And he's like, what the heck is this? Like, he's a cowboy. He doesn't know.
Paul Regnier: like high tech you know futuristic tech and there's glowing lights and beeps and like
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: um and then cowboys like outlaws surround him and all of a sudden he's like hey don't and then like the thing turns into like a laser gun and starts blasting them. But it was a good way to go like...
Paul Regnier: Like, what happened? And he doesn't know, too. He doesn't remember. He doesn't remember how he got there or how this thing showed up on his arm.
Lindsay Franklin: he
Paul Regnier: so that was a great way too i thought oh what a what a great mystery i want to know
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: And then the rest of the movie went downhill from there, but it started out cool.
Lindsay Franklin: I don't know startup all They did the exposition part, you know, introducing that.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And that's all that's what all of these specific examples have in common is they created demand in the the viewer um or the the reader, if we were talking about a, you know, book version here.
Lindsay Franklin: But they created demand for the information by introducing the kind of mystery or the the context of what we're we're looking at in a very intriguing way.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: and with the um the born. identity. They actually did something really clever there in taking one of those characters that we might not normally relate to very much because he does have all these special skills.
Lindsay Franklin: He's the the special ops guy.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And we still, we meaning the viewing public, we still love those kind of characters, right? When they're they're very like, you know, capable and they have all these cool skills and everything.
Paul Regnier: Sure.
Lindsay Franklin: We love to watch that. But so we still have that.
Paul Regnier: Sure.
Lindsay Franklin: with. jason bourne but we also have a guy who feels very every man in his understanding of himself until he's like oh my gosh i can do this thing or why do i know all those license plates and so
Paul Regnier: Mm -hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: We are able to, as the viewers, put ourselves in his shoes in a different way where we can imagine, what if that happened to me? So like, i'm I'm never going to watch a character doing Kung Fu and think, oh my gosh, this could happen to me.
Lindsay Franklin: No, because that's not going to happen.
Paul Regnier: yeah
Lindsay Franklin: But I can watch a character walk into a restaurant thinking he's having a normal experience and then suddenly he's being attacked. attackacted and
Lindsay Franklin: doing kung fu and thinking oh my gosh when did i learn that i didn't know i knew how to do that it like creates a different type of empathy with the viewer and so it's very clever what they've done so they've given us a character we can connect with and relate to in a different way even though he's one of these like human weapon type characters that we usually just like to watch for spectacle so it's it's very clever these these storytellers they know what they're doing
Paul Regnier: Right.
Paul Regnier: Hmm. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Paul Regnier: and And it makes a typical movie. like type that you've seen a lot. It gives it a fresh feel.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: It's like, oh, this is, I like these type of movies, but I've seen a ton of them.
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: Oh, wait, here's a totally fresh take on it. The accountant did that too.
Lindsay Franklin: Right.
Paul Regnier: Uh,
Lindsay Franklin: Hmm.
Paul Regnier: That was kind of interesting with Ben Affleck. I don't know if you've seen that, but he was like, a he was like high functioning.
Lindsay Franklin: Fine. I have not seen that one.
Paul Regnier: Autistic. Guy?
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: but he was also like sort of this special ops hitman kind of guy. It was really, but that's what he focused on because they say those high functioning.
Lindsay Franklin: That's fun.
Paul Regnier: If you're like a high functioning autistic, you can really zero in on a skill and get like extremely good at it.
Lindsay Franklin: Uh -huh.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: So he used it for that. So it was interesting it was just, again, an interesting take on. a genre you already kind of know. which is a good goal for any.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Story right?
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm Yeah, right?
Paul Regnier: Just a slightly fresh you know take on something.
Lindsay Franklin: Kind of. Yeah. And just very slightly subverting expectations, delivering what people love about the genre, but then subverting just like a little bit.
Paul Regnier: um
Paul Regnier: Right. Just a little yeah, yeah Not not killing it like Last Jedi.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: So. the only The last one I wanted to mention before we move on to character intros for Exposition was the Matrix, I thought.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: There was so much information that they had to... communicate in that movie. Especially for its time. It was like 1999. It was like...
Lindsay Franklin: who
Paul Regnier: so different from... so many other movies and there was a lot of exposition they had to do, but I thought they really did a good job of like. Just... filtering it in little by little. you know they didn't just give it to you in one huge chunk they just like and again it was mystery like what is going on what's the matrix who's this neo guy And then they just like, just bit by bit.
Paul Regnier: Little bit. you know, probably the biggest um the biggest info dump if you want to call it that was when he's sitting in the chair with morpheus and he's like what is it what's the mate and he kind of goes into an explanation but even then they kept it pretty like general.
Paul Regnier: Like, oh, here's the basics. Now take the pill and let's get this party started. so um But yeah, I thought they did a good job for how much because they had to communicate so much in that movie.
Paul Regnier: Um, But yeah, anyways, I thought that was a good one.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. that's That's a really good example of kind of the... employing opposite. technique um of you know filtering things in and weaving it in so that there isn't kind of the big you know and that's a very complex speculative concept that they had to to explain so um and you don't
Paul Regnier: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: Yes.
Lindsay Franklin: often hear people, at least sci -fi fans, or I never heard people complaining about, you know, oh man, that movie was so boring, you know, because if they had sat us down, nope, never, never.
Paul Regnier: I've never heard that comment.
Lindsay Franklin: So that's, it's a great example of. You can do this. You can have a very complex speculative element or a speculative premise that you have to explain in some way to your reader or your viewer.
Lindsay Franklin: And um this can be done in a way that the story doesn't stop. It's woven in and the momentum just keeps on going and it's super exciting. And and that is the goal.
Lindsay Franklin: um
Paul Regnier: Oh wait, I just thought of a good...
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Great transition from exposition to character intro, because at the beginning of The Matrix, they introduced Trinity.
Lindsay Franklin: Ha ha.
Lindsay Franklin: um Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: She's in the beginning. And they're they're the cops are surrounding her in that room. and and then you know she beats the crap out of everybody but like but in such a like a unique way like wait she's running across walls and she's leaping into the air and i'm s spinning around and like how is she beating all these guys and
Lindsay Franklin: but but um um
Lindsay Franklin: ah but
Paul Regnier: um and she's leaping over buildings so That introduced a lot of the mechanics of... Like, oh, you can do. You know, rather than someone sitting down like, hey, when you're in the matrix, guess what?
Paul Regnier: You can jump across buildings and you have to get, if you want to get out, you have to go to a phone booth and you have to call. They just showed it, right? That's the show don't.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: tell kind of concept.
Lindsay Franklin: Show don't tell.
Paul Regnier: Right. So you saw all this stuff.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm -hmm.
Paul Regnier: You didn't exactly know what you're like, is she a superhero? What, what is happening here?
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: um time is slowing down i don't understand um
Lindsay Franklin: so
Paul Regnier: But I thought that was a great way of introducing the mechanics of this crazy futuristic world. And then later on, they kind of explain it. But by then, you're already hooked.
Paul Regnier: And you kind of know her character, too. You're like, oh, man, she is capable.
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: Don't mess with Trinity kind of thing. Um,
Lindsay Franklin: that's right yeah
Paul Regnier: but yeah so that's a good transition because that's a good character intro for trinity right
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: And that leads us into character intro.
Lindsay Franklin: Yay. yea
Paul Regnier: what do you What do you got, Lindsay? You got some good examples for this?
Lindsay Franklin: Well... Yes, I kind of have. I know I have this whole list. We're doing brainstorming, you know, about what what do we talk about for each of these things. So I have a lot of different examples. And I'm trying to decide like, what is the best thing to do here? So one example that is interesting to me when it comes to character introductions um because a lot of A lot of what we're told about how to...
Lindsay Franklin: introduce the character and sort of immediately build that connection. um with the character is and the reader is to make that character likable right?
Lindsay Franklin: Like make them likable, kind of give give your your reader a reason to care.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: That way, right? And that that is, you can do that. That's good advice. um If that's what works for your story, absolutely. But I really enjoyed what Suzanne Collins did in The Hunger Games.
Lindsay Franklin: with the introduction of Katniss as a character.
Paul Regnier: Oh yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: um And I, yes, and I think that we we've had a lot of like, we see this a lot more now.
Paul Regnier: Right. That is good. yeah
Lindsay Franklin: But going all the way back, I'm trying to think when the first Hunger Games book released, was it like 2000? I don't know. It was a while ago, 2000.
Paul Regnier: Was it early 2000s?
Lindsay Franklin: aid or maybe yes it was it was a while ago um so it's it's maybe opened up the door for more heroines like her but prior to that i feel like especially in ya and especially with a female character you're gonna you know want somebody who is
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: likable or you often will see somebody who is a main character who's maybe a little bit bullied or a little bit something where it creates that kind of softness or empathy with the reader and again nothing wrong with that whatsoever but Katniss was something different and when we first meet her we see how she's living in poverty we see the difficulty of her district we see that things are hard at home we see her having to be really tough and it's not just an external toughness her
Lindsay Franklin: actual internal personality, which we get a lot of because we're in her first person point of view. um It is, she's not soft or particularly likable necessarily.
Lindsay Franklin: She is very skeptical. She's very wary. She doesn't have a lot of um those those qualities that we might say make her somebody that we connect with emotionally right off the bat.
Paul Regnier: Hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: And we see nearly like, I think a whole chapter of her, of just that. And it's her normal. And we get to watch it and it's kind of brutal. And she's kind of brutal, you know? and
Lindsay Franklin: Then we have The Reaping. So if you're not familiar with The Hunger Games, this whole setup here is that there's it's kind of post apo -apocalyptic. um And there are all these districts. The United States is is ah broken up into these districts. And or I think North America is broken up into districts. But anyway, she lives in this like ah poor district. And every year, two people from each district, ah two teens, are selected to go into The Hunger Games.
Lindsay Franklin: And they have to compete for their lives, basically. Only one. one person lives. the You know, so it's like all of these children competing to the death, basically. It's it's pretty brutal. um
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And with these poorer districts particularly, people are just selected for this. They're drawn at random. You know, everybody's eligible. The names are drawn. And the only way that you can get out of it if your name is drawn is if somebody actually volunteers.
Lindsay Franklin: of their own free will. And no one ever does.
Paul Regnier: For tribute.
Lindsay Franklin: Exactly. Nobody ever does that. However, we've just spent this whole chapter with Katniss Everdeen being not particularly likable, being kind of tough. She's a little, she can be a little bit mean sometimes even, and you understand why because her life is hard, but you don't necessarily like her. And then she goes to the reaping and her little sister's name is drawn.
Lindsay Franklin: as the one who is going to represent District 12 that year. and Katniss immediately. jumps up and says the famous line. I volunteer as tribute. so that moment.
Lindsay Franklin: I still kind of get goosebumps like all these years later when I think about that, because it doesn't matter how prickly she is or, you know, unlikable in the conventional sense that.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: One moment, that one line tells us so much about who she is. And she doesn't have to be soft or likable or even particularly feminine in a traditional sense.
Lindsay Franklin: It tells us something really important about her values and what matters to her. She is going to put her life on the line and probably die. Because her odds are not good, you know?
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Right.
Lindsay Franklin: The odds are not good, um especially coming from a poor district. because the root Yeah.
Paul Regnier: I thought they were ever in your favor.
Lindsay Franklin: That's what they say. And and this may the odds be ever in your favor. And it's like.
Paul Regnier: It's propaganda.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. And it's like a like a cruel joke because, you know, you've got 24 kids going in and one is going to live.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It's awful.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: um And so, you know, that just tells us so much about her and all of that.
Paul Regnier: yeah it's like so sac sacrificial love you know which is the highest love you know almost like the Christ -like love.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm. Yep. Mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: I will sacrifice myself.
Lindsay Franklin: Exactly.
Paul Regnier: I love you that much. I just lay down my life for you.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, right.
Lindsay Franklin: Exactly. no No greater love than this, right?
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So especially as a believer, um watching that, it it hits hard because we know the the real like truth of that.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And so you know that that is all done, I believe, in one chapter.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: I think that's all in the first chapter.
Paul Regnier: And you know her little sister is not capable.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: to survive so you and we know we've learned about katniss you know with the character intro like hey she's out there with her bow and arrow like taking down wild game and so she's she knows what she's doing and it's it's almost good that she's a little prickly because you gotta have that because she's you have to be a survivor to make it in these games
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm. isn Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: That's right.
Paul Regnier: So it's like... She's protecting her little daughter who, you know, like, oh, she would. There's no way she would make it. if she went to these games.
Lindsay Franklin: Right.
Paul Regnier: so Yeah, you're right.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, because that's...
Paul Regnier: that's that's That's a good one. That's a powerful one.
Lindsay Franklin: That is something else that Collins established really well in that first chapter is that Prim, the little sister, she is like, ah she's soft and Katniss protects her.
Lindsay Franklin: You know, she takes care of the family.
Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: I can't remember exactly what's going on with the mom. I feel like the mom maybe had like a mental health breakdown at some point.
Paul Regnier: Wasn't she sick or something?
Lindsay Franklin: She's either physically ill or mentally ill or maybe both.
Paul Regnier: Wow.
Lindsay Franklin: I can't remember the details. because it's been a minute since I've read this, but um she, yeah, so Katniss as a teenager is really holding down the fort.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah
Lindsay Franklin: um ah the house.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So you see that you see, you know, first of all, that Katniss is very needed at home. So that's a little scary to like that she's going to volunteer and just disappear into the Hunger Games for months and very quite possibly die.
Paul Regnier: Mm -hmm. Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So that's a concern. But the bigger concern, of course, is that if Prim actually did go and compete in the Hunger Games, you know, she's not making it out of that alive.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Oh, that's a good one.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: Wow. how How can I follow that? ah No, well, I will follow that with a with ah a little more fun one. And I have a...
Lindsay Franklin: Yay. We like that.
Paul Regnier: a book I got from um ah Barnes & Noble. You know how Barnes & Noble does those recovers of classic ones, i like the hardcover, and it looks really cool.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: So this one I will show. to the YouTube people.
Lindsay Franklin: Ooh.
Paul Regnier: This says, The Adventures of Indiana Jones. So this book has the... He's got a little hat on the spine there. um This has like the three original Indiana Jones movies. um Raiders, of course, being head and shoulders above them all. um in my opinion. uh but Raiders of the Lost Ark That.
Paul Regnier: That. Intro. for the character indiana jones is so it tells you so much about him as a character
Lindsay Franklin: to
Paul Regnier: To the point where you're like... Tell me more. like this guy is awesome. like I want to go on more adventures with this guy. yeah He's got this sweet whip. He's whipping guns out of people's hands. He's going in these crazy, treacherous underground caverns looking for treasure. you know um What kid doesn't dream of like finding some kind of treasure somewhere buried?
Paul Regnier: um He knows, but he's also very capable. um He's not just physically capable. like with the whip and physicality, but he's also like this studied archaeologist, right? So he knows these booby traps. He knows how to avoid them. And he studied this place. He's got notes. So it's this cool like combination of mental and physical. capability
Paul Regnier: And then, of course, he makes it out and you know he scuffles with his nemesis, which you get to see his nemesis right off the bat, too.
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: And I think this all happens within. Like the first. what seven minutes maybe it's not that long like so much is told you get such a strong example of who this guy is what he's capable of
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: Um, his toughness, his both mental and physical his nemesis you get to see who his nemesis is who's going to be
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: cause him trouble the whole way through the movie.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: Um, And then he gets away. And this was... was Also kind of tricky. Um, he gets in this plane after being like uh tarantulas whatever let's get the uh whatever you know i'm not nothing scares me and then he gets in the plane and all of a sudden there's this snake and he freaks out like i hate snakes you know get this thing out of here and you're like oh
Lindsay Franklin: it is
Lindsay Franklin: yeah
Paul Regnier: Okay. So you learned his week, his kryptonite basically, right?
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm. mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: Like, Oh, he's not. like perfect. he has these little flaws. So they even introduced a character flaw, which you always want some kind of like thing like that, which you know is going to come up later, right?
Paul Regnier: Like, oh, I hate snakes. Oh, that's probably the only time they'll ever mention it in a whole movie. I'm sure that's not going to come back.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: So... So I thought that was just such an...
Lindsay Franklin: who
Paul Regnier: amazing character intro.
Lindsay Franklin: e
Paul Regnier: um to know who this guy is and just makes you want to like, I want to know more about this guy. I want to go more adventures with this guy. Just. Such a good one. Man, I always go back to that like when I'm trying to come up with a new character.
Lindsay Franklin: So good.
Paul Regnier: How can I make a character as cool? as Indiana Jones.
Lindsay Franklin: That's Indiana Jones. That is a high bar because he's like, he's.
Paul Regnier: That is a high bar. I haven't got there yet.
Lindsay Franklin: Like one of the coolest of all time.
Paul Regnier: Is it? Yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: a lot
Paul Regnier: And Harrison Ford just played him like perfectly.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh, man.
Paul Regnier: But.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh. Love that. That is one of my favorites.
Paul Regnier: They should have stopped after the third movie. But anyways, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: ah ah Yes.
Paul Regnier: I digress.
Lindsay Franklin: Movie one and movie three are actually two of my just top favorite movies.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, two was kind of a miss.
Lindsay Franklin: Love those.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, I don't know what they were doing there.
Lindsay Franklin: two is Two is interesting. Yeah, two is interesting.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And I don't hate it, but yeah. It it was it was an interesting ah diversion into something a little bit different.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: But this is a great example. And there's actually two little things, other things about your example that I want to highlight. where um The moment when Indy, because he's he is so physically capable and intellectually capable, right?
Lindsay Franklin: He is super smart and physically able.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And so we see him doing all this stuff and it's like, oh man, this guy's so cool. Like he's he's doing all the things.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: But he does the thing where he's, you know, trying to figure out how much sand to put in the little bag that he's going to use to swap out that golden idol, right?
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So he's trying to make it the right weight because he knows that this thing is like booby trapped.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And if he just takes the idol off, that it's going to trigger some kind of thing, right?
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: He knows this. And so we see him taking some sand out of the bag and he's adjusting things. and all the, yes, like all the stuff. He's like trying to get it just perfect.
Lindsay Franklin: But he doesn't. He doesn't get it perfect.
Paul Regnier: yeah he gets it wrong yeah that is interesting
Lindsay Franklin: He's like, he gets it wrong. And so he puts the thing on. He takes the idol and we think he's done it. And then very slowly, the little trigger starts to lower.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And we know.
Paul Regnier: And the John Williams music comes in.
Lindsay Franklin: yeah And then he's running for his life from a gigantic boulder.
Paul Regnier: du and gentlemen Yeah. Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And they actually, yes, so amazing.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Awesome.
Lindsay Franklin: um They actually. use that kind of device where Indy knows so many things about so many things and he's so brilliant and yet he doesn't always get those things right and I think that is a really
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: um cool thing that they've done with his character to make it so yes he's got his kryptonite with the snakes which is also a really fun thing that they uh play with throughout the series but that he also doesn't always get everything right and it keeps it keeps you connected to him because we have that empathy because we don't always get everything right but it also
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, you're right.
Lindsay Franklin: creates the, yeah, there's like an ongoing sense of.
Paul Regnier: Yeah
Lindsay Franklin: danger for him because he gets so many things right. But sometimes he messes up.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And so we don't ever know 100 % for sure that he's got it under control.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Oh, that's good.
Lindsay Franklin: I don't know
Paul Regnier: That's true. Even when he makes it out, he's got the idol.
Lindsay Franklin: no Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: But meanwhile, he's covered in spider webs. He barely made it out.
Lindsay Franklin: but
Paul Regnier: And then there's his nemesis going, oh, thanks for getting that for me. Yeah, why don't you go ahead and hand this over?
Lindsay Franklin: Uh huh. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: And by the way, these these these tribal Jovitos are going to like run you through with their spears.
Lindsay Franklin: I'll take that.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: You know? Then he runs.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: Of course, he barely gets away.
Lindsay Franklin: Right. And another really interesting successful character setup thing that that the filmmakers did there is after this very harrowing essentially that whole opening scene it's a prologue right that's essentially what that all is
Paul Regnier: Yeah, right. You kind of, yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It's a prologue. But once we...
Paul Regnier: The best prologue ever.
Lindsay Franklin: Best prologue ever. ah Once we jump from. there's a jump cut basically from that scene to when we start kind of the main action. um of the story.
Lindsay Franklin: And I'm trying to remember, oh my gosh, it's been years. Am I right that we cut to him in his classroom? as a professor.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Okay.
Paul Regnier: That's the next scene. yeah After they fly out, he's in the classroom.
Lindsay Franklin: That's the next scene. Yes.
Paul Regnier: yeah
Lindsay Franklin: Yes. OK, so that's also a really clever thing that they've done. And it's continuing that character introduction because we've just met him in this context of like he's doing his his archaeologist thing and his adventure thing.
Paul Regnier: All right. Right.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And then we've like just barely escaped with his life.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Right.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: He's the snake in the plane and all the things. And then we cut to him being. A history professor, basically, or, you know, where it's he's.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: like dressed very differently he's wearing glasses he's you know and it's this very quiet scene it's visually very quiet the colors are kind of muted and it's
Paul Regnier: Right.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Everything's brown, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: ahhu Everything's just very, so it's super different than what they opened with.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: So very clever way to kind of introduce the two sides of this man.
Paul Regnier: right yeah and they earned the right to do the boring scene they couldn't have started with him in a classroom some movies would have done that you know start but I don't know, but like they have earned the right.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes. No. Sure. Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: So it's like your your your heart rate is just. still pumping so it's like okay let's bring you down a little bit here we are in a classroom it's chill
Lindsay Franklin: but
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: But even then, you're right, the character intro even continued on. Oh that's funny.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: And then the guys, of course, come in to the inciting incident of like, hey, we want you to go find the Ark of the Covenant.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And see when you, oh, it's it's so good.
Paul Regnier: ah Great movie. I could talk about that movie forever.
Lindsay Franklin: It's so good. And I think it is really. This is an interesting example because you're 100 % right that you could start the film. with him in the classroom. And started in that very calm, kind of like in the more boring scene.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And then having, right.
Paul Regnier: Snoozers.
Lindsay Franklin: And then having ah you know his friend walk in and start talking about the Ark of the Covenant.
Paul Regnier: and
Lindsay Franklin: like That is an interesting interruption, kind of the inciting incident. they Like it's, you really could.
Paul Regnier: You're right. It's almost interesting enough. you You could probably get away with it.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep. You could do that. You could do it, but...
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: If they had started the film that way. Would we be talking about it as an example?
Paul Regnier: Probably not.
Lindsay Franklin: Probably not, because what they chose to do instead was just that much more effective and that much more exciting and entertaining and really grabbed hold of the audience to where.
Paul Regnier: ah
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: People like me and Paul, we, it's in our favorite movies. We're still talking about it decades later.
Paul Regnier: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: Like it's, you know.
Paul Regnier: It might be my favorite movie of all time.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh it's so good.
Paul Regnier: Unless you give me categories like favorite comedy, favorite drama.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: If you just give me the blanket statement of favorite, I would probably say that just because it kind of ticks all the boxes.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: you know
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: Um, My answer would be different if you said, what's your favorite comedy? Favorite. you know dramatic, blah, blah, blah. Um,
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: but yeah i mean it's just it's such a perfect story you know ah they just did it so well um
Lindsay Franklin: So good. So good.
Paul Regnier: Is it your turn? I forget where we're at.
Lindsay Franklin: I think so.
Paul Regnier: It is your turn
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. And I've been going back and forth like, do I want to talk about this example? And I think I want to. It's just very tricky to talk about this one in the context of being novelists. So we have to be careful that our takeaways are sort of correct with this.
Paul Regnier: Hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: But I think it's such a brilliant example that i of how... A particular film did a piece of exposition that's doing a lot. It's setting up the plot. It's introducing a character um in a very like impactful way.
Paul Regnier: Hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: And it's it's laying the groundwork for... almost every arc. Almost every arc of the main story, the groundwork is is laid here in this ah opening sequence.
Paul Regnier: h
Lindsay Franklin: But it's something that is really, we wouldn't necessarily be able to replicate this exactly in a non. visual storytelling format so we just have to be a little bit careful about our takeaways as novelists but i still think it's a good example to talk about because of how brilliant it is and how kind of unique it is in the way that the storytellers.
Paul Regnier: The suspense is killing me what is this?
Lindsay Franklin: Okay, I'm talking.
Paul Regnier: you're really You're really building the anticipation here.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh man. Okay. So now we hope it does not fall flat, but I am talking about the movie Up.
Paul Regnier: ah
Lindsay Franklin: by you know.
Paul Regnier: Okay, okay.
Lindsay Franklin: the Pixar Pixar movie up.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah
Lindsay Franklin: um which is just... Such a, you know, you talk about prologues. This is also a prologue in visual format. um because And what I mean by prologue, I should probably have defined.
Lindsay Franklin: that um because that's one of those terms we hear thrown around a lot. But what does that really mean um in in a novel or in a movie?
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It's like a dramatic sequence that is. kind of separate from, it's still related to, but it's sort of separate from and usually set. well before the main action of the story.
Lindsay Franklin: right so that's that's kind of what a prologue is in a you know narrative framework um
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: So in the movie Up, if you haven't seen it, we start with ah two kids, Carl and Ellie. And um I can't recall exactly how they meet, but I can visualize Ellie crawling into Carl's window for some reason of his bedroom.
Lindsay Franklin: But, you know, they're like these two kids and he says basically nothing in that scene. And she's sort of a chatterbox and she's this kind of like vibrant, you know, little little kid. And there are these two like adventurers. And then she sneaks back out of his window and he watches her go and says, wow.
Lindsay Franklin: And then.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. He's more shy and reserved and she's like this firecracker.
Lindsay Franklin: Okay. Yes.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, but they have this shared. dream and these shared interests. And so after that little scene, it cuts to this basically four minute montage.
Lindsay Franklin: And what's so interesting about this in visual storytelling is that there's basically no dialogue.
Paul Regnier: Hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: In this entire four minutes, it's just set to a score.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And so there's music in the background and we're just watching this montage of their. life together. So um little boy Carl, he says, wow, and he leans on a balloon because balloons are a big thing for him.
Lindsay Franklin: And the balloon pops and that pop snaps over to there's like a cut. And it's the pop of a flashbulb at their wedding.
Paul Regnier: Wow.
Lindsay Franklin: So they, yeah, great transition.
Paul Regnier: Good transition. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And so they get married, we see them build their house together, which becomes very important. Every every like symbol that is introduced in this four minutes becomes
Paul Regnier: Yeah, comes back. Symbolic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, so important to the rest of the film. So we see them build their house together.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: We see them, um you know, living life as a young couple. We see them dreaming together about, you know, the adventures they want to go on and all the things they want to do. And then they start dreaming about having children and they want to have children.
Lindsay Franklin: And suddenly. the montage takes a very sad turn and you see
Paul Regnier: A dark turn.
Lindsay Franklin: A dark turn. and It's so sad, you guys.
Paul Regnier: Like, I thought this was a kid's movie.
Lindsay Franklin: Ha ha! know.
Paul Regnier: What's happening right now?
Lindsay Franklin: i I cry every time. I don't know how many times I've seen this movie. The prologue makes me cry every time.
Paul Regnier: Too sad.
Lindsay Franklin: So we see them struggling with infertility. They cannot. have a baby. And so again, all of this is told silently. So you see them, um you see Carl comforting Ellie, and you see them sort of recommit to the adventures that they want to have together instead, because they have to grieve. They're grieving the loss of not being able to have a child, but they still have each other. They have their home and they have their dream to go to Paradise Falls and to visit this place. So you see them.
Lindsay Franklin: putting coins in a jar to save for paradise falls you see uh there tire blow out and they have to break the jar to like get replaced the tire so they like have all these very normal life events happen where they just are never able to save up enough money to go and
Paul Regnier: ah Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Which we can all relate to.
Lindsay Franklin: All of that, so much of this is so relatable to like all of the, yes, you think you're taking your kids to see a movie and then the parents are all sitting there and it's so how many people can relate to the financial struggles, the infertility issues, like there's just so much in there.
Paul Regnier: Okay.
Paul Regnier: ah
Lindsay Franklin: And some of that is going to go over kids' heads, but they're going to also understand, like my kids were kids when this movie came out and they love this movie and they understood enough of what was happening to really get the emotional.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: core of this, this montage.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So you see them trying and trying to get to Paradise Falls and saving and saving and saving. And eventually we see Ellie gets sick. And I don't know if we ever learn exactly what she has, but she's ill.
Lindsay Franklin: We see her in the hospital and we see Carl lose Ellie.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And ah just. Ah!
Paul Regnier: Just twist the knife in our hearts.
Lindsay Franklin: Right?
Paul Regnier: Man.
Lindsay Franklin: I'm not going to cry. I'm not going to cry. I might. Okay. So we see we see Carl lose Ellie. And so he is now in this house that they built together.
Lindsay Franklin: by himself, and all of this little beautiful life that we have watched unfold in about four minutes, he is now alone in this house. We then transition to what is actually the start of.
Lindsay Franklin: the story, the actual story of Up. We've got a little boy who's like just about the same age as Carl was when we started his prologue.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And we've got little Russell and he's wearing like his kind of Boy Scouts ah -esque uniform. And, um you know, he sort of interrupts Carl's life. We also see a lot of development, like urban development happening around Carl's home.
Lindsay Franklin: And they're trying to get him to...
Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: give up his home now Again, really similar to the Indiana Jones introduction here.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: we could start the story right there. because Russell is super adorable. He's very charming. He's a super cute character, this little kid. And he's very like just peppy and sweet and kind of, I don't know, he's very likable.
Lindsay Franklin: And so we could kind of start with him as our main guy and going up and trying to talk to this very grumpy old man. And um Carl is really as the grumpy sort of bitter old man, he's humorous.
Lindsay Franklin: And he's also likable in his sort of gruff way. And the dynamic between the two of them is really cute. So you could start there and you could very reasonably understand why any person, especially an older person who's living alone, doesn't want to give up their house to this kind of urban city development happening around him.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: so You could start that there. However. There is.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: So much that the storytellers have introduced us to and so much that they've created in that four minute character intro that gives us a much deeper understanding of who Carl is.
Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And it sets us up for the entire emotional journey that we're about to take, which is so good. This movie is so fun. If you haven't seen it, guys, and I.
Paul Regnier: yeah it is it's really great
Lindsay Franklin: Oh, it's really great. And I i almost like don't want to give spoilers ah with if you haven't seen it, but.
Paul Regnier: Just now.
Lindsay Franklin: There is. an emotional transition that happens for Carl where he is part of why he's so bitter is because he's wrestling with guilt of feeling like he never gave Ellie the adventures that he kind of promised her in in the beginning when they were young he wasn't able to give her a child he wasn't able to get her to Paradise Falls like and so he feels like he failed her but
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Bryant.
Lindsay Franklin: One of the symbols that is introduced in that intro is Ellie's adventure book. So it's like the scrapbook where it it was it started out as.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: her keeping track or or storing information of all of the adventures they were going to have together. the places they were going to go, the things they were going to do. And Carl finds this at some point late in the the movie, and he clearly has not seen it for maybe ever or for a really long time. And as he's flipping through it, the the pictures that Ellie saved slowly transition instead to the life that they lived together. Rather...
Lindsay Franklin: Oh no, I'm gonna cry.
Paul Regnier: Oh no.
Lindsay Franklin: I'm gonna cry, guys.
Paul Regnier: Hold on let me get the tissues
Lindsay Franklin: It's so sweet. okay no okay there we go
Paul Regnier: Alright, here we go.
Lindsay Franklin: ah Dad eyes. Okay, that worked. That's good. yeah um Rather than, guys, I have been with my husband, like we have been together for 27 years this December.
Lindsay Franklin: And so when you like talk about this stuff, these kinds of things, it just hits like so in such a relatable way because.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, you relate.
Lindsay Franklin: because Yes, you connect so hard to this.
Paul Regnier: You connect. Yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: um But, you know, instead of all of these grand adventures that they had planned together. Ellie's perspective shifted over the course of her life where the and adventures instead where all of the things that she and Carl got to share together, even though they never went to these places together, that was the adventure.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And he did give that to her. And so.
Paul Regnier: And wasn't that the reveal?
Lindsay Franklin: like
Paul Regnier: Didn't she write something like that in the back of the book, if I remember right?
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: Like the adventure was just going through life with you or something like that.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: He was the adventure. Their life together was it.
Paul Regnier: Oh, no, I got to get the higher to tissue again. here's the
Lindsay Franklin: Okay. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: ah
Lindsay Franklin: Ah! Guys. Do you see how effective this storytelling is?
Paul Regnier: Yeah, right. You can't even talk about it without crying.
Lindsay Franklin: It's. I can't even talk about it.
Paul Regnier: We're not even watching it right now.
Lindsay Franklin: but And I'm just I'm a mess because it's so it's so brilliant.
Paul Regnier: There's tears in her eyes.
Lindsay Franklin: And there's such a. like core truth. there.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: you You don't have to go to these other places. It's about that person that you shared your life with. And they were such a...
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: clearly such a loving partnership. And so that symbol, again, another symbol, that adventure book is something she started when she was a kid.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: So we saw that in the beginning, in that opening sequence, and it is the thing that contextualizes.
Paul Regnier: Hmm. Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: Carl's entire emotional journey because he goes on this adventure with Russell they go to Paradise Falls they do the thing they have this grand adventure and so he gets to have that and he does this like really cool thing and they solve all the plot problems and they do all the stuff and have a great time on the way but the emotional core here like that actually is
Paul Regnier: Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: That. That is sort of solved. I don't want to say solved, but it's it's contextualized with.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: his discovery of how Ellie viewed her life. And so.
Paul Regnier: And it was interesting how...
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: when Once he got there, it wasn't quite what he thought it would be.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: And that. that adventure person that they Um... revered back in their youth.
Lindsay Franklin: see
Paul Regnier: That guy wasn't quite.
Lindsay Franklin: Hmm.
Paul Regnier: what they remembered or what they, who they thought he was. So at the end, when the reveal is the adventure was just going through life with you, it's like.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: Oh, yeah. Like, how did I miss that? That's so much more important than that than this thing I thought was. the important thing you know they did i was thinking too as you explained it they kind of did the hunger games thing with carl too because if you would have just met him and he was this grouchy prickly old man like get out of here get off my porch you'd be like man this guy's a jerk i don't like this guy but since you know this like...
Lindsay Franklin: Yep. Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: Right.
Paul Regnier: you know, this gooey center he has where it's just such a fragile like sad backstory you have such empathy for him already that when he's grouchy like oh yeah of course you're grouchy like man you got you had to go through it you know all these things and
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: So that's kind of like the same. thing right you have the prickly side but then you see like oh man they've got this really like vulnerable thing that really It gives me such empathy for this character.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, it really it humanizes him in a really significant way. And, you know, like I like I said, we could kind of we could understand Carl and why he might be prickly and feel the way he feels and everything, um even without having that context that we get.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: But. How much more so, how much more do we understand this man and even, you know, love him a bit through Ellie's eyes because, and she's such a vibrant, like just, you know, fun character from the, from the get go.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And you immediately understand why he fell in love with her and they have this like great life together and everything.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And we get to see him through her eyes a little bit through that, that four minutes and just builds the empathy in such a.
Paul Regnier: Mm -hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: different. a different way so that when there's a bit of the friction happening between Russell, the little boy, and Carl as an old man, it it feels a little bit antagonistic, but in a way where you're rooting for and you love both of those characters.
Lindsay Franklin: And so that's that's a very, um and so of course, when they're kind of teaming up to deal with that guy who ends up being such a jerk, um you know, down the road that, you know, these are like, we have two heroes in this story.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And so, yeah, it's just such ah such a brilliant example. of introducing all of that in a way that... you know I remember I was writing at the time when that movie released.
Lindsay Franklin: I was, you know, writing stories and stuff. And I remember just thinking, how did they do that? like
Paul Regnier: Right, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: How did they do this so well and so successfully? And like I said, we can't exactly usually um replicate exactly what they did in.
Lindsay Franklin: in written format because this is such a visual.
Paul Regnier: Yes.
Lindsay Franklin: that they did. and But Pixar is... Man, there are so many case studies within their catalog of...
Paul Regnier: oh especially those initial that initial run of movies they did was just like each one one right after another was just awesome amazing like
Lindsay Franklin: Fascinating.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: Foof.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes. crazy.
Paul Regnier: some so Something was in the water over there.
Lindsay Franklin: Like. Oh my gosh, absolutely brilliant. Because like WALL -E is another example where...
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah
Lindsay Franklin: Oh my gosh, that one.
Paul Regnier: very very little Very little dialogue. So much was communicated.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, it's almost silent. The first and it's something crazy.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: I looked up one time how many minutes of like the opening of WALL -E is almost silent. And I mean, there's sound, but there's no dialogue. There's not.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: I mean, and still you're riveted. watching that is so definitely, even though we can't.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: necessarily utilize the exact same techniques that they're using in this visual format, it's still worth studying as a storyteller, how they accomplish this and just some of the takeaways.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And if you listen to some of the storytellers and the the artists involved with ah Pixar, they will often talk about their storytelling craft. Like there's a lot out there um on the internet if you search for it, where they talk about the mechanics and, you know, what they were trying to do with the story.
Lindsay Franklin: So super fascinating um to look into and, you know, learn from as novelists.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: There's still a lot that we can learn. from.
Paul Regnier: No, for sure.
Lindsay Franklin: that.
Paul Regnier: For sure.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Um, I have one final character intro example.
Lindsay Franklin: Fun.
Paul Regnier: i have the I have the cover on my iPad, so I'm going to show you this. I'll bring this up while... ah Oops, I think I put in the wrong password. Hold on. While Lindsay dries her tears, I will show you this.
Lindsay Franklin: but While I try to get my ah life back together here.
Paul Regnier: Oh no!
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah I should have known better.
Paul Regnier: Oh. I had it and I lost it. Hold on, hold on.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh, that's okay. That's okay.
Paul Regnier: Wait.
Lindsay Franklin: We will just talk about my emotional instability when the movie up.
Paul Regnier: It's...
Lindsay Franklin: While we wait.
Paul Regnier: Okay, I got it again. Okay. This is... I'm gonna turn it around. This is The Amulet of Samarkand by Jonathan Stroud.
Lindsay Franklin: nice
Paul Regnier: And that is part of the... Bartimaeus trilogy. is Are we seeing this? Is that showing up on camera?
Lindsay Franklin: I can see it. Yeah, I can see it. There's a creepy little gargoyle looking thing.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, a little gargoyle guy. Yeah. so And that's the character that... Um, i thought what they did so well with now this one So this is written format, right?
Paul Regnier: So they don't have any visuals. um So I thought this was a great example for writing because in the first chapter, I got such a distinct.
Lindsay Franklin: who
Paul Regnier: Vibe off who this character was and he's like a genie or they call him a gin
Lindsay Franklin: mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: in this story. um And he's really snarky and he's funny. And he's like kind of irritated that he's getting called up by this little boy to do his bidding. and He's just like, oh my gosh, I got to do this again. I've been doing this for centuries. I'm tired of it. But he's really funny and he can transform into these different, like he turns into a bird and he's flying around London.
Paul Regnier: um but it's like you know the story is like london as if there was actual magicians and they could call up genies to go do their bidding and things like that. So it's a really fun story, but this character is really a big part of why. It's...
Paul Regnier: it's fun and it's so good just because his personality comes just like screaming through the first pages to where you really have such a good sense of who this character is you know this this jinn this genie um and he's and it's just a really fun snarky tone that continues all the way through because it's basically told through his perspective.
Paul Regnier: um So good. One of my favorite, if not my favorite, like middle grade fantasy book. or at least one of my favorites, Top. Top five. Um,
Paul Regnier: Because then I start to think about Narnia. and the hobbit and all these other ones and i'm like well Although, is The Hobbit really? That's not middle grade. but um And.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: I guess Harry Potter would be too. Well, whatever.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: It's in the top, all right? It's in the top list. But. Yeah, Amulet of Samarkand, just because that character intro, and again, it's not visual. I mean, there's some visual things described, obviously, but it's it's such a vibe and it's such a voice.
Lindsay Franklin: Sure.
Paul Regnier: You know, you talk about character voice.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm -hmm
Paul Regnier: It was so strong and so... it done so well in this book i was just like i was hooked right away i remember i just picked it up in a store i knew nothing about i'm like oh what's this book this looks kind of interesting And once I heard that character voice, so I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm buying this right now. I'm going home and I'm reading it right away. This is so good.
Lindsay Franklin: Sold.
Paul Regnier: um Yeah, sold. And it still stands out to me. It's just like such a... great fun book. the The whole trilogy is interesting. I like the trilogy, but the first book in particular is just so strong.
Paul Regnier: And so much fun. And it's because of this character voice, this character intro, that's such a, like, you really feel like you have a good sense of who it is. and yeah so that's my final one i just wanted to throw out there because it was it was so well done
Lindsay Franklin: I love that. And that that is... That's a great example, especially something you said there was really important, that they established it in the opening scene with this character. It was very gripping and compelling for you.
Lindsay Franklin: You're like, yep, I want to go on a journey with this character. Let's go.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: I'm i'm in. um But they kept it going. they They delivered on the promise that was that was given in the very beginning.
Paul Regnier: Mm -hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: and you know sometimes Sometimes we fail at that as novelists where it's like we promise something to our readers in the beginning and don't quite carry it through. Or we have characters where they violate their own either voice or their own character, or their own values in a way that's not intentional.
Paul Regnier: Hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: Because sometimes we have, you know, characters do certain things intentionally or certainly we have characters change who they are over the course of a story.
Paul Regnier: Hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: but A lot of times you see this happening. unintentionally. And that is something that will pull a reader right out. They will lose that connection that that you built um in the beginning with them when we have them violating what has been established in the beginning. So that's something really important to do. Like imagine if you had that character.
Lindsay Franklin: who you connected so strongly with his vibe and his voice and just who he was. And then he became very like. more and not not bad necessarily, but just more like.
Lindsay Franklin: like Gandalfy and the way that he, you know, like interacted with the characters, more of that kind of like, you know, mentoring.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It just didn't have the same sort of like ah edge to him that was like very compelling in the beginning and just, you know, stuff like that.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So we have to be really intentional that the stuff that we set up, especially with characters um in the beginning, we carry through so and deliver on all of those promises that we make.
Paul Regnier: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: to our readers.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, and they definitely did on that book like it it carried all the way through like because it was I think it's
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: I haven't read it for a while. I'm pretty sure it's first person but told through his eyes and it's just funny the way he looks at the world and wizards and
Lindsay Franklin: m
Paul Regnier: all the all the stuff he's commanded that he has to do he's like i hate these guys you know it's just so funny um Yeah, this is just a really funny character.
Lindsay Franklin: Huh? Nice.
Paul Regnier: One of my favorite. and and it's very humorous so if when i think of like a humorous
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: tail done through and and it's snark that's not sometimes snark gets pushed too far where it's almost like mean or
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: mean spirited or something.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Or like very bitter. It can be very bitter.
Paul Regnier: We're bitter. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. That's, that's a better word.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: Um, but he rides perfectly on that edge where it's just always funny.
Lindsay Franklin: is
Paul Regnier: You know, what the things he says.
Lindsay Franklin: I love that.
Paul Regnier: um
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: But anyways, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah I love that.
Paul Regnier: So that's that's my last one.
Lindsay Franklin: I love snark when it's done well. And it doesn't kind of veer into that like bitterness or nastiness or air anything.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: i love it when I love it when it's good.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: It's one of my favorites.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Okay, I think I have, okay, I have one more thing and it's veering a little, going back a little bit towards exposition, but it's really brief. And I love this one because it utilizes humor.
Lindsay Franklin: um which, you know, we love on Quilling It. We're fans of things that are funny and utilizing humor in our storytelling.
Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: And so something that occurred to me when thinking about this was. um set up, like when we're setting things up and introducing little things, almost like sneaking things in, planting things, you know, in our story, that's another important part of exposition where we pull that off without it feeling like exposition or really telegraphing.
Paul Regnier: Mm hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: I i think about my my husband um is really into MMA and and martial arts and stuff. And so I always think of telegraphing the punch where, you know, in the middle of a fight where, you know, where somebody, it' it's like their setup of the punch is really obvious where they're going with it.
Paul Regnier: Oh sure.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It's like they wind up and really, or, you know, you could see the hook coming from a mile away.
Paul Regnier: yeah All right. Right.
Lindsay Franklin: You know, you don't. want to telegraph the punch um with certain things.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: We have to layer these little bits that are going to become important.
Lindsay Franklin: later in the story um in such a way that you know our reader it's there and they are in it and they see it you know kind of in the way that the snakes with indy you know it's the same kind of thing where that's going to come back but um you know so and it's set up well enough in the beginning that when it does come back it's a really good the the viewer is going to have a recall to that um but it's not telegraphing the punch that like down the road this is going to become a major like scene one of the most iconic scenes of the whole movie um and another another film i think did that really well was the incredibles
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: Um,
Paul Regnier: Oh, okay.
Lindsay Franklin: I'm kind of I'm on a Pixar ah kick here, I guess, but.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great one, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It's a great movie. One of my kids favorites growing up. So I have seen this movie. Eleventy billion times.
Paul Regnier: yeah
Lindsay Franklin: um So many times.
Paul Regnier: And one of the few movies that waited for the sequel for a long time, because usually if they wait for like 15 to 20 years and then they put in a. they put out a sequel you're like oh boy here it comes cash grab this is gonna stink
Lindsay Franklin: Uh oh.
Paul Regnier: And that one was great. Like Incredibles 2.
Lindsay Franklin: It was great.
Paul Regnier: I'm like, wow, it still had the same.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: How did they do that?
Lindsay Franklin: Again, how did they do that?
Paul Regnier: Right. Right, how did they do that?
Lindsay Franklin: It's kind of like... I felt the same with, um at least I haven't seen. the most recent Toy Story ones i I think I have not seen yeah I can't even remember I haven't seen the latest one and I don't know if we're on four or five I can't even remember but
Paul Regnier: I haven't seen the latest one
Paul Regnier: it's Five is the one that just came out.
Lindsay Franklin: Okay.
Paul Regnier: I haven't haven't seen it. I heard it wasn't.
Lindsay Franklin: I haven't.
Paul Regnier: The greatest, but...
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, I haven't seen it. And I don't even know if I saw four. I can't recall it.
Paul Regnier: I saw four.
Lindsay Franklin: But the first Okay, was that one good?
Paul Regnier: it was it I thought it was pretty good. It wasn't it did it wasn't as good, but it was it wasn't bad.
Lindsay Franklin: Okay. Mm hmm.
Paul Regnier: I mean, I thought like, oh, this is fun.
Lindsay Franklin: Okay. Okay.
Paul Regnier: This is still like a cool adventure.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Okay.
Paul Regnier: But you could tell like it was starting to come down a little bit, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. but Going down a little bit.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: i I definitely saw the first three and thought they were all really well done.
Paul Regnier: yeah
Paul Regnier: They were all good?
Lindsay Franklin: um
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: They were all good. So yeah, there is something in the water over there at Pixar, but um yes.
Paul Regnier: I know. Well, there used to be. I don't know if it's so much anymore.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: but
Lindsay Franklin: um So with The Incredibles, something that is really fun that they introduce in such a comedic way is when Edna Mode is, and that she's our little kind of, oh, we love her, such a great character.
Paul Regnier: Oh, she's great. Yeah. yeah
Lindsay Franklin: She's our our crazy little fashion designer. She's a superhero. ah Outfit designer.
Paul Regnier: No capes.
Lindsay Franklin: No capes. that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's become an ah iconic line for her where she's just sort of going off and she's this tiny little character compared to um Mr.
Paul Regnier: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: Incredible. He's, you know, very physically large and she's kind of walking him through and they're talking about getting him his super suit. Right. um
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And, you know, so she's really like super bossy, bossing him around. So it's this very funny comedic scene. Visually, it's very cute. And she's walking him through ah her.
Lindsay Franklin: factory or whatever. And um he says something about a cape. I don't I can't remember if he like requests a cape or something. And she spins around and no capes like she is.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Absolutely adamant. No capes. Don't you remember what happened with Thunderhead? and There's this little, you know, aside about him.
Paul Regnier: Right. Little montage of all the...
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: heroes that had capes and how it backfired on them.
Lindsay Franklin: ah Yes! Yes. And so
Paul Regnier: led to their downfall that was so funny
Lindsay Franklin: And so as you're watching this, it's this very comedic, humorous thing. And he's like, all right, all right, fine. And, you know, so the the Incredibles suits, they don't have capes. And, you know, um and you kind of think as the viewer that that's the end of that.
Lindsay Franklin: But what that scene really is, is.
Paul Regnier: Oh, you're right. the The end.
Lindsay Franklin: ah Yep.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And I'm sorry for the spoilers, guys. We did pick movies and stories and stuff that have been out for a really long time.
Paul Regnier: If you haven't seen it by now...
Lindsay Franklin: So I, you know, right, like, I apologize for the spoilers. But, um you know, ah you should still watch them because this is great storytelling. But, you know, our
Paul Regnier: Oh yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, our villain. And if you're really, really paying attention, a viewer might notice when we first see the villain in his... super suit or his villain suit or whatever, he does have a cape.
Lindsay Franklin: he does So you might notice that, but that's that's pretty subtle.
Paul Regnier: h
Lindsay Franklin: you know It's pretty subtle. And so you don't necessarily expect it when Syndrome, our villain, is out there and he's doing his thing and he' you know it looks like he might even win.
Lindsay Franklin: And then that cape.
Paul Regnier: and
Lindsay Franklin: get sucked into a jet turbine and.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: butop We're done.
Paul Regnier: That's it.
Lindsay Franklin: That's it. No capes, guys, you know. So um that is a brilliant way that they planted. You know, we talk about plant and payoff and all of that in our storytelling.
Lindsay Franklin: They planted that so well that that little piece of exposition that was. going to become really important to the resolution of the story. They planted that for the viewer in such a way that it really felt like the scene on its own was warranted, like could be there in the story, even if it didn't have anything to do with the ultimate resolution, because it was fun.
Lindsay Franklin: It was delivered in a great way. It's a great scene of characterization between Edna and Mr. Incredible. Like that scene could be there and it would be completely fine. As an editor, I would not cut that scene, even if it didn't have anything to do with the resolution.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: resolution, right?
Paul Regnier: It's just funny on its own. Yeah, right.
Lindsay Franklin: It's funny on its own. It earned its spot there. And yet it's actually the setup for the resolution of how we're going to defeat the baddie.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: So very brilliant.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah, no, I agreed. That was so great and so funny. I love that movie.
Lindsay Franklin: It's a good one.
Paul Regnier: Well, very cool. I think that's all I got for this one. And we're we're running a little long here. So any do we have any final? notes I think we, we covered it pretty well.
Lindsay Franklin: I think we covered it pretty well.
Paul Regnier: Don't you think?
Lindsay Franklin: And this is going to be like we said, a recurring sort of ah series, I guess, on the show, because we have gotten some requests for.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: more craft focus episodes where people want us to address specific craft elements. And so if you have something like that, you want us to talk about. always feel free to, you know, you can go to my website.
Lindsay Franklin: I have a contact form there and I will receive that email. Um, if you want to do that, if you want to DM on Instagram, that's a way to reach us. Um, I, I keep, I always say reach out to us if you have any, uh, suggestions and somebody, um, emailed me and said, I, I hope this reaches you.
Lindsay Franklin: I don't know if this is actually the way to contact you. They were trying to like contact the show, like on YouTube and stuff.
Paul Regnier: yeah I tried to contact Paul and he never responds to anything.
Lindsay Franklin: but Well, it's like we have comments.
Paul Regnier: He's such a jerk.
Lindsay Franklin: We have comments turned off on YouTube. So like, and I.
Lindsay Franklin: thought about that after it was like oh yeah you know i need to actually spell that out how to reach us if you want to do that you can dm me you can email through the contact form on my website and ah we'll get it that way and we just store all of these up in a little notebook and we are just kind of you know ticking them off as we go and as we have feel like we have things to say about the stuff people request so this writing wizardry feature is going to become our avenue to address craft.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: things.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: so
Paul Regnier: Yeah, specific elements of craft. Yeah, for sure.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: Well, very good. Well, hope hope everyone out there has enjoyed this episode. and Like Lindsay said, if you have ideas for future writing wizardry topics. Let us know.
Paul Regnier: and But we will see you next time.
Lindsay Franklin: Bye.
