Transcript
Speaker: New Zealand. New Zealand. The dick. Get up on the dick.
Speaker: I'm trying to do a New Zealand accent. I was telling you this, I just get lost in these stupid Reddit rabbit holes where somebody goes, what's the thing that Americans don't do well? And then somebody was like, tell accents like Australian, British, New Zealand, like tell the difference between them. And then somebody, people were like all commenting like, oh yeah, they sound like everything's like,
Speaker: a short i sound they're from new zealand like fish and chips i don't know different ways you can tell oh these are the things that my mind finds very interesting yeah oh it reminds me i forgot to tell you in the pre -show i started watching outlander
Speaker: I can't remember what episode I'm in, but I'm almost halfway through the first season.
Speaker: Wow, nice. I keep bugging my friend Kaitlyn or I did when she started reading the books because then I'd be like, where you at? What's going up? Yeah, as we talked on the way home. Yeah. Um, oh my god, that's exciting. Yeah, I do have to say though, I normally don't mind voiceover, but sometimes Claire like just annoys me.
Speaker: There is quite a bit of voiceover, I guess, isn't there? And it's about 30 times an episode. She's like, and I just have to do this to find my way home back to the 20th century. And I'm like, OK, we get it. I feel like it gets a lot less. I feel like it does cool off a bit. Yeah, because when you mention it, I'm like, yeah. There's a lot. It's like section of the city. Yeah, Carrie fucking narrates everything.
Speaker: I started the new season of that. I never watched any of it, but I am enjoying Outlander so far. Yes! And you're a pure show watcher, you haven't read any of the books. Yeah, I'm not a huge like history buff kind of person and I'm not a huge like more like drama kind of orientated show watcher.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like my sci -fi, I like my like supernaturally kind of stuff and This has a bit of that but not to like other than the time travel right now It's not like heavy -handed in like anything more than like drama
Speaker: That's true. Yeah. And you won't find my Netflix covered with historical dramas like Kenyon's. But once you do watch one, then it'll start suggesting Bridgerton and everything. Yeah, I am never watching that.
Speaker: I'm like, I don't get what it's about other than the time period, but okay. I do have to say I don't understand why she's trying to go back to her husband. Because I'm pretty sure with everything that's happened with the other, like the, his, I guess, ancestor, I'm pretty sure I'd have fucking PTSD just looking at his goddamn face.
Speaker: right? I wouldn't want to go back to the future and be married to that. So.
Speaker: I'm sorry. Yeah, you just flinch when he looks at you. He's like, what? And you're like, sorry, your great, great grandfather tried to assault me like multiple times. Don't worry about it. Yeah, that guy you wanted to know so much about. Yeah, he really is a dick. I have the proof. Yeah. Oh my god. I'm just like, yeah, I'm pretty sure I, other than like indoor plumbing and stuff, like I wouldn't be so like trying to go back to be with him, you know?
Speaker: Yeah. No, and especially once you start seeing how their relationship is together, her and Jamie just seem so much more compatible. Yeah, they're pretty cute. They basically just got married. Spoiler. Oh. Oh my god. I gotta stop because we're gonna talk about it all night and then I'm gonna be done fringe in fucking two seconds because I'm already on season five and it looks really fucking short. Yeah, season five is like half the length.
Speaker: They kept almost getting cancelled and they literally got cancelled at the end of season four and JJ Abrams like Baked Fox and was like kit from like episode one We knew how the series was gonna end you need to just let us finish it and then they said okay But you have half as many episodes and they'd went what and they're like, yeah do it in half as many and we'll give it to you Oh my god, so they did it Okay, I started I did
Speaker: I was looking for the gag reel and then I started watching some behind the scene things that alluded to that, but then I didn't watch. I didn't finish it. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Oh my God. Okay. Anyway, welcome to the show. Welcome to the show. I don't know how much of that we'll keep in. I don't know. It's only five minutes long so far. Oh, okay. It's not that bad.
Speaker: well I was gonna say yeah you're listening to castles and cryptids and tv review yeah and we had a part in our I think it was a patreon one the yule lads where I kind of yammered on about the fringe for like what ended up being like five minutes so I eventually cut most of it out because I was like okay here's the train here's me over here derailed I did that with uh
Speaker: What was our last episode? Before Medical Marvels? Or Medical Mysteries? No, the Medical Mysteries. When I was editing it, I think I cut some stuff out because we went on like one movie tangent that like merged into another movie tangent that merged into something else. Oh, it did? Yeah, it was like close to 10 minutes of like, and then I was like, nah, I'm just gonna cut out like 90 % of this.
Speaker: Uh oh, we're going to piss the people off. They're going to be like, give us what we want. No, we were just confusingly like googling stuff. Oh, okay. That's probably stuff I assumed would be cut out then. Yeah. Just like talking to me like. Oh, that is annoying when you can't think of the name of an actor or something though. Yeah. Oh, speaking of movie tangents, we watched the new Ghostbusters.
Speaker: We watched the new Ghostbusters. I haven't seen it yet. I love Paul Rudd. I was convinced for most of the movie that the main lady and I almost, I probably, I wasn't going to tell you this because it's embarrassing. I was convinced it was the same lady that is in the fringe and it wasn't. Oh, Anna Torv? Yeah, it wasn't her. It was somebody that had a similar voice and was also blonde. And I was like, well, she looks a lot older. But then again, I was just watching something that was
Speaker: filmed 10 years ago so maybe yeah but it wasn't yes and Paul Rudd oh my god he was so beardy in it he was his character and now he's sexiest man alive go Paul Rudd and now he is he always was I love Paul Rudd
Speaker: He does get better with age, though. People say he doesn't change, but he does slightly, and it's only for the better. Yeah. You rewatch Clueless, and you're like, nah, he looks so little and young. Oh, yeah, that is old now. Yeah. Older. Yeah, he was funny in this. He got to be funny. That's good. He makes me excited. Yeah, a dad -like character, a dad joke. You know, he's always...
Speaker: he's always got his quips and stuff yeah well yeah and you guys wanted to hear about Ghostbusters I thought New Zealand crimes with a side of whatever movies we've seen today and we already spent 10 minutes talking about spider -man so that's out of the way we got that out of the way for you yeah in the pre pre show
Speaker: I have seen it now guys so I don't have to avoid Marvel media, social media anymore. I was talking to Taylor about I was like I remember when you couldn't see Infinity War she was like away on a trip or something on a fam like a travel agent trip when it came out and
Speaker: you know that's such a big one and then spoilers and so she's like yeah i was like it was that one right not endgame and she was like yeah and she's like yeah i just had to delete my socials for like a couple of weeks yeah that was a big spoiler one oh yeah if you if you like just found out on social media it's like oh yeah and then tony stark died you'd be like yeah that would be crazy but anyway
Speaker: And now for some Spider -Man 2 spoilers. No, I'm just kidding. Not 2, Spider -Man 2. Jesus Christ. I'm fired. Spider -Man Tom Holland Dash 3. I was mixing up Tom Holland with Tom Hardy. There's too many Tom H's in the Marvel Universe.
Speaker: There's literally also Tom Hiddleston. So anyway, but I maintain that. I think Tom Holland still is my favorite Spider -Man. And I don't know if that's because I like the Marvel movies more. So maybe I'm just a little tainted by that, but love me some Tom Holland.
Speaker: And you like Garfield, right? Because I think that's what Pat said he was his favorite. No, mine's Tobey Maguire. Oh my gosh, we have a whole plethora of opinions on this. Mine's Tobey Maguire because he was a little bit older. I don't like that he's like 14 or whatever when it starts. Right, right. And then... It's like 50 now or almost has got to be.
Speaker: I loved when he got well, he was like old spider -man basically in that movie. He was like stretching his back Yeah, I like it that like the character and it was like finishing high school and he was a little bit older and then He actually has like the spider -man powers out of the three of them, you know Yeah That's true
Speaker: and that was like my first like the Tobey Maguire one came out when I was seven until people at work because a lot of them weren't even a lot of them were just being born um when Tobey Maguire was spider -man and and I had seen it so I'm just like yeah no he's my spider -man because I was seven when that came out and you guys weren't even born yet that's true like when I watched it with rain I'm like
Speaker: I don't think you get all the references because she hasn't seen the old ones. Yeah. Oh, excuse me. So yeah, I was like, okay, you don't exactly quite understand all the references, but that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, they were, they were all good in their own, in their own right. But anyway, there are podcasts on our full movies versus Sony and all the other politics of that crap.
Speaker: but um so I will try not to diverge into that anymore but yeah for New Zealand we're doing some New Zealand crimes our first international true crime episode of 2022 that's true it is we hope you like it yeah our last episode's already
Speaker: Got quite a few plays, so that was nice. Yeah, I noticed that too. They did miss us, they really missed us. Yeah. I was gonna say, don't forget, we mentioned last week too, on Spotify, you can leave us, what, stars?
Speaker: yeah a rating yeah a rating that's the word you can look at the rating and then on good pods you can still five michelin stars you can still review and then rate us and subscribe
Speaker: Oh, that is a good segue because I literally was just giving my brother shit on good pods because I think he by accident gave us a less than five star review. Oh, no. It broke our perfect 5 .0 rating. And I was like, I went to fuck, bro. You just literally texted me that you like this episode because he gave us two stars.
Speaker: I know you're listening to this now in the future. Hopefully by now you've corrected it. Back to the future now in the future. I know I don't know why everybody always has to mention that on podcasts like we don't know they're recorded a few days in the past. This isn't live sorry about it.
Speaker: pull back the curtain it's all ruined anyway no and we're not on video yet but no i we're figuring it out we are yes uh yeah we have our we have a couple video minisodes out on patreon so that's true that's we do have those you want to see the shenanigans happen in front of your face
Speaker: oh my god anyway all right i vote for this one you go first because i went first the last couple oh okay sounds good it's uh it's crime so it's uh kind of a bummer go figure i mean
Speaker: Can't do funny crimes every time. But I don't know. I do think that people enjoyed the Florida Mad episode. So I do enjoy doing those ones too. Yeah. We'll bring in a funny one soon enough. Oh heck yeah. Crime is a passion. That's sure to be funny. Just kidding. Spoiler on our February Valentine's Day.
Speaker: Just a little tease, just a wet ear whistle that we want to do some crimes of passion. All right. Yeah, so doing New Zealand crimes. You know, we like to do some countries around the world, definitely. Usually where we have some listeners and thank you to all who have listened in New Zealand and around the world. Oh, also we got a new country in the last couple of days. It's Malaysia.
Speaker: Malaysia. Wow. Yeah. That's cool. We just talked about a cryptid from there on our Patreon minisode. The Abang Aku, I think it was. It was that weird guy that like was like waiting for a perfect person at that tower thingy. Oh, yeah. Unrealistic.
Speaker: like a lot of girls and their expectations for I would only men above six feet apply please and all those other random tinder requests yeah specific okay so this one it got my attention because it kind of has a catchy or flashy name to it that caught my eye it's been called the pamper party murder
Speaker: I think I ran across the name like the pamper party when I was looking for my case but I I don't remember anything about it I never like clicked in to read a bunch about it or anything ooh yay yeah cuz I hadn't heard of it before researching either so yeah you should be fresh like I was
Speaker: So my intro. We all know how much we need a day spent with good friends and good food sometimes. A chance to sit back, relax, and shoot the shit with people you live. But what happens when a group of women get together to have a fun day filled with self -care and drinks and one woman makes a daily decision that will last a lifetime? Just sounds like um what's that one movie uh
Speaker: Scarlett Johansson was in it and it was about the bachelorette party that they accidentally murdered a male stripper or something. Oh! I don't know if I've seen it. It's probably like five years old now. It's a few years old.
Speaker: That sounds pretty good. It was like oopsies. Now we gotta deal with this shit, okay. We'll have to google it. I like ScarJo though. She good. Yeah, she's pretty good. Okay, so this one takes place in West Auckland, New Zealand. This case. And that's on the North Island.
Speaker: I've always thought that the island of New Zealand somewhat resembles the island of Nova Scotia. And I've always thought the island of Nova Scotia sort of looks like it could be like a floating lady with a bonnet on. Oh, I've never looked that closely at geography. Let me consult the map above me.
Speaker: Some people have said it looks like a lobster, but I think that's reaching because it's a maritime province. I think it kind of looks like a lady in profile, like she has like a billowing sleeve. Whatever, it's not important, but I do think it's interesting. Maybe certain islands like
Speaker: when you're like up against a big vast ocean you probably just kind of get that crescent shaped coastline from all the waves battering against you. Yeah all the inlets. Exactly. Damn that ocean though. Damn. Okay so yeah I don't know we don't have anything that we call pamper parties here per se but it sounds like
Speaker: Like I would imagine, you know, getting together with your friends and kind of just, just treating yourself, treat your sales. Slumber party. Yeah. I enjoy, you know, we like to get together and watch movies and that's usually what it ends up being. No matter what the heck we intended to do. Oh my gosh.
Speaker: Okay, so we're going to talk about this close knit group of friends, including some relatives within the group, some sisters and cousins that hadn't seen each other in a while and they wanted to have a little get together.
Speaker: So one of the ladies, her name was Emmanuel Sinclair, organized a get together and hosted her place. And she even hired a, they called it a beautician. So an esthetician, we maybe would call it here. I don't know. Yeah. Tend to use that word more than beautician, but yeah, to do their nails and stuff like that.
Speaker: Um, so one of the girls said, we're a family. We love each other. We're sisters here to get our nails and eyelashes done. That was a quote, um, from Corinne Phillip called little Corinne because there were two Corins in the group. So I'm like, adorable. Yeah.
Speaker: That can happen. I mean, a certain age group like around my age, girls in their 30s, you'll get a lot of Ashlee's and Jessica's. Yeah. My brother's friends when he was in middle school, there was one that was Big Brian and Little Brian. Was Big Brian the big one? Because sometimes they'll reverse it. I can't remember honestly. I think it might have been reversed like just for
Speaker: Strike that flippity in reverse. Just to screw with people. Yeah. Oh my god. Like when you have three Spider -Man together. Peter? Peter? Okay. Peter, Peter, pumpkin, Peter. I bet people just call me Peters and just get called by your last name like you're in a football team. I don't mind it. It's all right.
Speaker: I, when I was in high school, my one teacher, it was like an options class. And he referred to me as Mr. Anderson from The Matrix. Something he's told me that. Yeah. That's funny. And he'd go and during like a tendency be like Mr. Anderson. And then he'd just go back to like doing everybody else's name normally.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, I can't remember if you said that on here or not on the episode. But what is an options class? It's like one of the optional ones, like an elective or? Yeah, it was like, what, when you weren't doing gym, you were doing health class or this other class. It was kind of like a computer sciences kind of thing. I don't know. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think we had something similar too. Yeah. Where you, you're in one of those. It's not normal math and English and whatever. Yeah.
Speaker: All right, so they're a family. They're a little tight -knit group and they gathered at Emmanuel's house on October 15th, 2016.
Speaker: The house was located on School Road in Te Atatu South, and I thought this was kind of interesting. It's just down the street from Edmonton Primary School. We live in Edmonton City. This was down the street from Edmonton Primary School. Did you say the street was named? What was the street name? School Road. School Road. To the point. Yeah.
Speaker: This road has a school on it. We'll call it School Road. And also, we're so lazy with names that everything in the Commonwealth countries comes from England names. I ended up looking it up and I was like, oh, Edmonton is named after Edmonton, England. So probably this one is named after Edmonton, England too. Boring. It is kind of boring. And what does Edmonton mean?
Speaker: It meant like Ed Helms County or something. I was like, what? Ed Helms? Okay. Or farms or something. Anyway, it wasn't a very interesting meeting other than it resembled Ed Helms' name. Yeah. I was like, oh, Ed Helms. I know, right? I think it was like, Ed Helms. Anyway, nobody cares about this, so. All right, back to the main event here.
Speaker: so we had to have we have to have some fun before the sad before the sad before the sad I'm gonna hit you with the sad so they had some snacks laid out including fresh guacamole that Emmanuel had just made that morning chef's kiss and some corn chips
Speaker: and there was around eight or nine guests total so it was kind of a smallish intimate affair you know I would just assume more like a dinner party than a than a rager right yeah but yeah it was a day for self -care and gossip with some good friends
Speaker: And there was Anna Brown, another attendee, and she was not a core member of the group. She only really knew Carly Stewart and a few of the others. And Carly was her cousin and they actually called each other cuzzy. So kind of cute. But, um, Anna Brown arrived with two of her sisters and two bottles of vodka and one bottle of Jim Beam.
Speaker: holy yeah that's intense two bottles of vodka for eight people right if she's even gonna share her two bottles of vodka and her bottle bourbon yeah like how many mimosas are we talking here i know it was during the day yeah you're right it's kind of weird but
Speaker: so that that could be a factor in the events to come definitely oh gosh oh god it was a bit of a they mentioned just in some of the articles that it was uh mostly non -white women there i don't know why i don't know how to say that i don't know why everything sounds really stupid if i'm talking about the races but it's it's like
Speaker: Not really important, but it comes up, I guess, so we have to mention it. Yeah. So yeah, there was Justine Evans. She was the only white woman at the party. And sometimes in New Zealand, I guess that can be referred to as pahika when you're like white or of European descent versus like Aboriginal, like... New Zealand. Maori or whatever. Yeah. That's how you say it, right? Maori. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah i think so i think so okay um and so yeah the others were like of mowery and cook island's descent mostly and again it's not super important except for some tension between brown who was mowery and evans who was white so throughout this party this is
Speaker: Quote, throughout the party Brown became increasingly violent, eventually fighting with Sinclair and Stewart. As the day progressed, she became more abrasive and more aggressive to those around. She ended up fighting with the only two people she knew at the party apart from her sisters. End quote. And that was from the prosecutor.
Speaker: Nick Webby yes there's gonna be a prosecutor of course there is so you guys knew it what what this goes to court um yeah it's gonna get rough so they were all still getting along for the most part having a good day planning another outing like they were talking about a cruise to White Island I guess
Speaker: White Island. But um so this Saturday afternoon unfortunately took a sharp turn when Anna Brown got trashed and started to pick a fight with Justine Evans.
Speaker: The host, Emmanuelle Sinclair, attempted to separate the two, taking Brown into a bedroom and out of the hallway they were fighting in. This was a temporary relief only, however, when Brown left the room and then was spouting off in the hallway, where more people tried to intervene, like attempting to separate them, including Anna Brown's cousin, Carly Stewart.
Speaker: Carly was heard saying, how dare you? This is a family house. My nieces are here. Or children are here. The reports buried, something like that. Yeah, so she was like, obviously like calm the fuck down, basically. Do we find out what they were arguing about so much? Or was it just like race related maybe? We don't really find out. So that was kind of,
Speaker: that bugged me too when I read this case. Um, and it, it's sometimes like you start to cover something and if you're like, well, this actually doesn't have a lot of, a lot, a lot of detail and information, but at the same time. That's my case. Oh God. But you're like, it spoke to me. I wanted to cover it. If it stuck out to me, then I think I should because it probably deserves to be told, you know? I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah so that's kind of annoying because you don't really hear too much about that. I'm shocked that like we don't know considering there was so many other people there. Like even the beautician or aesthetician like she didn't spill the beans she don't know these people. I'd be like yeah they were like bitching at each other in the hallway. Like I'm just trying to do some nails and lashes here.
Speaker: I know I think that too like you're like well there was a lot of people there They probably heard some of it, but I think in the end it doesn't maybe there wasn't many details printed in the Articles from the other girls because it just didn't really matter in the end what it was about Do you know what I mean? Yeah, fair enough. It's yeah It doesn't because it's not important to the case. I guess I'll say I
Speaker: So, um, that, so yeah, can now, yeah, first Anna Brown was fighting with Justine Evans. Now she's fighting more with Carly Stewart who was trying to separate them. Um, so those two grappled hanging onto each other and spitting profanities. And Carly said several more statements include, including how dare she, I'm not scared of her.
Speaker: So you do know if she said that, but then she said words to the effect of, I'm going to be the bigger person and walk away. So she left the room. Yeah. It went back to like, it kept saying the lounge, but like, I assume kind of a living room den type area. Yeah. Yeah. Cause they had been like in the kid's bedroom and then in the hallway and now, and now Carly left. Yeah.
Speaker: So, Brown pursued after a moment, detouring to pick up a kitchen knife on her way into the lounge. Quote, I know, she took the biggest knife out of the butcher's block, a knife which had been used earlier to make guacamole. She walked up to Carly Stewart with the knife.
Speaker: Anna Brown seemed eerily calm as she approached Carly in the lounge with the weapon concealed behind her back. She wasn't emotional, she wasn't yelling or crying. She appeared very quiet and trance -like, people said after. She then whispered Carly's name and then stabbed her in the side of the head. The side of the head? That's like not a lot of people would stab somebody with a knife in the head.
Speaker: it takes a real hard turn there right yeah it just seems like okay who would expect it to go that way like yeah oh my god I wouldn't have been expecting that and whose house is this again uh Emmanuel Sinclair why isn't she like taking these people out right she did attempt to break it up and then
Speaker: so i'd be just punching people like take this outside yeah she probably wishes she did geez so another quote quote she walked up to carly stewart with the knife hidden behind her back and she plunged it into carly stewart's face just below her left ear with so much force it went deep inside carly's head oh it's so vicious it sounds awful
Speaker: It's bad. I'm like I'm sorry. I don't mean to be going Fast I think I'm maybe I'm like just like I have to say it cuz it's so rough You know what I mean like where you're just like
Speaker: rip off the band -aid. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, she didn't pause to see anything, offer any assistance, as the prosecution would later point out, but just picked up her purse and walked out of the party, apparently still staring at Carly. She walked away. And yeah, she like still had her blood on her shoes and clothing and stuff as she left the house.
Speaker: I was like, okay, bye, I'm gonna see myself out. Right? I don't even know what anybody would have been doing at that time. It must have been like pure chaos. Yeah. She was still conscious, so they were trying to help Carly, attempting to stop the bleeding and calling 911. Patricia, which was Carly Stewart's cousin, was speaking to the operator who told them, was heard telling them, it's going to be all right, Carly. Carly, you are strong.
Speaker: So Patricia repeatedly told the operator that Carly was losing a significant amount of blood, of course. But sadly Carly was dead within 10 minutes of the stabbing. Oh my god. I'm surprised that she was alive for 10 more minutes.
Speaker: I know from the minute you here stabbed in the head all I'm picturing is like a giant ass knife that's like fucking nine inches long and I'm like oh it's probably the length of like it could go from one side of her head out the other side right but then you think I didn't understand like how it could penetrate so through the skull but yeah but I guess under your ear that's cool yes so close to your jaw
Speaker: I guess. Right. That it's like a weak point. Yeah. It would seem like she would kind of knew what she was doing when when you think about that part. Yeah. Yeah. So what had happened was that a vein in her neck had been completely severed when she was stabbed. And you're right about the length. It was about 11 centimeters deep. Yeah.
Speaker: So I don't know what the fuck that is, six inches, something, I don't know. Whatever, that's just for our Americans listening, because of course the Australians measured it in centimeters. Anyway. The rest of the world measured it in centimeters. Except for like, I do know like when we don't say that we're however many centimeters tall here. I will say that like for some things I understand the
Speaker: was it not the metric the imperial system that yeah anyway back to the crime so so yeah Anna Brown actually just returned to the house within moments seeming confused and reportedly or repeatedly asking what had happened apparently jeez
Speaker: Yeah she kept saying she was too out of it to remember and like saying like what happened what are you like what's happening and what have I done or whatever. You've just stabbed somebody. Yeah and the 911 operator was actually told at that point yeah the person who's done it has come back. Oh my god that's so scary. It is but it's also kind of weird.
Speaker: that like you're like okay you would know that was wrong why did you if you left why did you come back yeah and they go what did I do exactly like it makes you wonder if she was putting on a show because she was very apparently unsteady on her feet the cops noted when they arrived but like no surprise when she brought that much alcohol
Speaker: yeah oh my god yeah that was her so she was only tested for intoxication about eight and a half hours later oh my god yeah the arrest or whatever and they did a urine test at that time so not a blood test but they did do a urine test i don't know why so then they apparently like tried to use that to
Speaker: Calculate backwards as to what it probably was at the time of the party. Oh my god. You should have just Taken her blood, right? Take her into custody Yeah, that didn't seem like a great part of it And then one article I read said that it did come out later that she tested positive for some methamphetamine So just add that to the cocktail of No
Speaker: She was obviously brought to trial. I mean, at least they had her, right? Yeah. So she was brought to trial in July of the following year, so 2017. And the prosecutor for the crown emphasized that the victim and killer had known each other. They kept saying they were friends, but the one, uh,
Speaker: source I had that said that they were cousins was the podcast I listened to where they had her defense lawyer on. So I think they were cousins. Yeah, because they were the ones that call each other cuzzy. Like they liked each other. They got along normally. It was just like this crazy, weird day. Yeah.
Speaker: Bizarre. I don't know. Like an episode of Jerry Springer? Like, what went on? I know. We have some other facts or theories or whatever. Oh, okay. Just a little bit. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, just another sad fact about it was that when she died, Carleen was 36 and she had two young children. Yeah, that obviously brought up a trial. Yeah, it's terrible. And Anna Brown's defense lawyer, Mary Dyerberg, I think it's pronounced, argued that a piece of evidence had been missed in the form of a white cup that Anna had been drinking from.
Speaker: This had been found in a window sill in the bedroom where Brown had been having a long talk with another guest about like life, addiction, their past, you know, they were having a real heart to heart. So they found this cup there. The police photographed the cup thinking it looked a little bit out of place because it was in the kid's room. Yeah.
Speaker: But apparently they emptied the contents after. So then Brown's lawyer argued that Brown said she had tasted something strange in the cup and that she thinks that she may have been drugged. But I feel like people, what, drugged with meth in the cup? Meth meth? I don't know, I guess, right? It was like, I don't know how many drugs other than meth would make you stab somebody in the head.
Speaker: Yeah, so this is the theory that they are presenting. Brown told her psychiatrist that she remembered, oh yeah, that she chases something strange and then remembered very little after that point and then she said that maybe someone had slipped her a sedative because she was being drunk and belligerent. That was her theory.
Speaker: but oh my god sedatives don't that's such an extreme reaction to getting a sedative that's like the opposite of getting like of your reaction when you have a sedative because it's a sedative
Speaker: Plus another sedative, yeah. I don't know if they're saying like, what if it's like when you're like on antibiotics or whatever and like you're not allowed to like drink and then you do and you just like really fucks it up. I don't know. I feel like, yeah, I feel like most drugs are to knock you unconscious or make you loopy. They aren't going to make you extremely violent like that. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it feels a little flimsy to me. Yeah. But I was like, well, I like to present, I guess, both sides of the case. I mean, much like her lawyer had to here. Yeah. So that was, yeah, her lawyer argued that her behavior seemed to take a sharp turn in that time. And then other behavior that would appear to back that theory up was how she acted when she was in custody.
Speaker: Um, she was quote, agitated and acting in a psychotic way. And that was from like the officers on duty. That was their words. I mean, was she, or was she again putting on a show? I don't know. I guess she kept having seizure like movements. And then she was calling, calling out for her cousin, Carly, like, cause he helped me. She kept saying weird.
Speaker: I'm sorry also we have a friend named Carly and then when I was writing these notes I was like oh this is gonna be awful when we're talking about this.
Speaker: Love you, Carly. Okay. Um, but yeah, that's, that was kind of weird, the behavior in custody. I guess she was talking to herself in the style and, you know, just kind of almost schizophrenic like behavior. Yeah. Well, if, if she was using math or had previously, her behavior probably wouldn't be that unrealistic, I guess.
Speaker: yeah it could be you're going through withdrawal i don't know what like math withdrawal looks like withdrawal yeah no me neither thank god so after the arrest anna had told the police she had taken angel dust which apparently they were then able to disprove because it's not available in new zealand true definitively
Speaker: So I don't know that kind of adds to the evidence of she Well, we'll get to it she's a liar
Speaker: She's a liar. She's a liar. I just keep thinking of like, not only like the people around that like knew the girls out of like their friend group or whatever, but like that beautician just sitting there being like, I didn't sign up for this shit. They were arguing and some chick stabbed the other girl in the head. And I just got the hell out of there. I don't get paid enough for this. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Jobs that you have to come do house calls.
Speaker: Like you were talking about earlier, strippers that accidentally get killed by Scarlett Johansson. We've all been there. Yeah, that accidentally get killed by Scarlett Johansson. I think it's one that kills, I can't remember.
Speaker: It's like she suffocated him with her breasts? No. It's something weird like that where it's like stupid. Oh my god. And they're like, we didn't mean to or something. Right. It's like a final destination death. You're like, how could that even? Okay. So. So, okay. I liked this line that the prosecutor said about her. He said,
Speaker: She was acting, quote, like a child whose hand is caught in the cookie jar with crumbs all over their face. I was like, I took Angel desk. You know, it wasn't my fault. It just seems like it's all over the place. Caught your hand in the murder jar. I just wanted one murder.
Speaker: please I picked that up to make some guacamole no oh I can't I'm sorry but let's cut that out I am so yeah she put on a show in the courtroom too so when the 911 calls were played she was weeping in the courtroom
Speaker: But let's not forget that Carly was the victim and her mother told the court, Carly was a devoted, loving, kind mom to her boys. She was their mentor, protector, their everything. And then another quote from that was before she went on to say that Carly's sons now sleep with weapons beside their beds for fear of attack. Okay, that's a little much.
Speaker: but i feel bad but but that sucks yeah yeah and then anna's criminal record was brought up she had some previous offenses including dishonesty offenses dishonesty offenses apparently is that like that's why i said she's like a convicted liar oh gosh is that like
Speaker: like uh lying under oath or something dishonesty i didn't look it up i wonder or if it's like fraud or something i tried you with the liar liar pants on fire oh god liar liar is such a good movie um
Speaker: remember what did I tell you I watched that with rain and then she went oh I know that line I've heard that before when he just tells his client to stop fucking breaking the law or whatever that's his legal advice stop breaking the law you idiot or whatever oh stop making the law asshole that's what he screams at him yeah I watched that for the first time like last year
Speaker: Oh my god, that's funny. Yeah, you gotta watch that. It's a classic. Yeah, it was good. I love Jim Carrey. He's like one of my favorites. He's amazing. He's Canadian, isn't he? He's our gem. Yeah.
Speaker: All right. So yeah, she had some offenses to Miss Brown, dishonesty offenses, intent to cause grievous, grievous bodily harm, and wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm over an incident involving a machete where she acted as the getaway driver. Oh my God. That's intense.
Speaker: Yeah, she's not very nice, I guess. She started young, too. Her first offense had been at age 14. And another fun fact, Aruni, I guess, is the incident involving the machete had stemmed from an incident where Brown's children, like Anna Brown's children, were being scared by the people that she then later attacked. So she was all mad and pissed that someone scared her kids and came back after them.
Speaker: with a group of guys with a machete. And then that attack ended with a man's hand almost completely severed. Oh my God. Yet then she does this attack, this murder at a friend's pamper party where there were children present. Oh my God. Yeah. She is fucked. And speaking of children, Anna Brown herself was a mother of six.
Speaker: Yes, her imprisonment. Oh yes, spoiler alert. She gets a life sentence with a minimum of 12 years imprisonment after a three -week trial. I feel like a life sentence shouldn't be followed up by a minimum of 12 years imprisonment. Doesn't that seem a little low? Yeah, considering her previous history too.
Speaker: Yeah, that's like her minimum, no parole allowed during that time. But yeah, I would feel like here it would have been like, life would have been 20. Yeah, yeah, 25 to life. That's what we usually have. But yeah, at least she's in jail. She's still in jail from everything I could find. I couldn't find that she'd been released or anything. I mean, this was like five years ago now.
Speaker: Hopefully they can figure out it seems like something's going on in her life that she needs help with. Yeah, no doubt, eh? And hopefully her kids have someone solid they are with. Yeah, I feel bad for all the kids involved, like the witness at the party and her kids and everything.
Speaker: yeah and the beautician and the beautician she's like i didn't come to work on a sunday for this shit right they better have tipped her good she probably only got around to doing like half the girl's nails
Speaker: Oh, that's insane. Oh, I know. So another weird thing, just to kind of end it out here, that story. Strangely, there was a few weeks after the crime, a fire that broke out at the crime scene, the Sinclair residence.
Speaker: Yeah, so apparently the house was vacant at that time, but there were several fires to be put out by the firefighters and they suspected that accelerants were used. Possibly including fireworks. Oh. That sounds messy. Yeah, I was just gonna say that sounds like a Florida way to start a fire.
Speaker: At least they didn't pour the accelerant back on themselves. But yeah, definitely if they're putting out several points of fire within one house. Points of origin. Yep, that's what they call it. And so yeah, that's kind of just another little mystery to that one because they took evidence at that time, but it's just being kept on file for further investigation that's not really
Speaker: resolved to my satisfaction, unfortunately. And that is that case. I just have a little bit more horribleness to share with you. What about another horribleness could there be? Another evil example of a pamper party gone wrong. Oh my god.
Speaker: She's like, why? No. Um, I don't know. Maybe I was looking for stuff. Sometimes you don't know how long your case is going to be. So, but have you ever heard of Peter Nygaard? Or seen any clothing perhaps that says Nygaard on it? It sounds familiar.
Speaker: Yeah, it sounded familiar to me too, and I think I had some pants that were Nygarde, because we used to get that freaking Sears the Bay gift card for our Christmas politics, and I would shop in there. So Peter Nygarde is a Finnish -Canadian fashion executive. This is from Wikipedia. And in 1967, he founded Nygarde International, a Winnipeg -based company that made women's apparel.
Speaker: But then in 2020, Nygaard was accused of sex trafficking, rape, and racketeering after the Federal Bureau of Investigation raided his company's offices in New York City. Oh my gosh. Wow. So he had some pamper parties that were disgusting. Oh, guys.
Speaker: is what I have here because you know if just one bad pamper party wasn't enough for you guys I thought I'd tack this on for you. So this is about Nygard's friend Daniel Fitzgerald. He's apparently being sued by three women who claim they were forced to have sex with him at Nygard's pamper parties.
Speaker: So there's Jane Doe's one, two, and three and they stated that they were to have sex with Fitzgerald who would then bring a woman for Nygarde to have sex with in return. Very Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. Like not happy about it and that this guy is Canadian, Finnish, whatever. Yeah. So yeah, he just was a gross guy. He used,
Speaker: his associate, this guy is being sued, used his association with the famous fashion executive to bolster his own business. And the lawsuit says that Fitzgerald traveled on the Nygard Company's corporate jet to South America, the Caribbean and New York for the purpose of furthering and participating in the sex trafficking venture. Really, these pamper parties are just
Speaker: Getting a real bad rap in my research. And yeah, obviously there's just a whole lot of this crappy, you know, sexual assault kind of allegations coming up in the news everywhere. Yeah. But yeah, just a little bit gross. Um, and other than that, I have what I wanted to have at my pamper party.
Speaker: I would have a nice one with no murder and no rape. Oh that's good. I was like what would I have at a pamper party? Basically it kind of reads like a like a bachelorette party. I'm like we could have Mexican food, pina coladas, maybe a massage therapist. You know I liked the kind of you know having someone there to pamper you ideal.
Speaker: we could have some true crime or some horror movies you know just playing in the background and some board games like I love board games cards against humanity mad gap oh all those fun ones oh very good yes and finally top it all off with our my resident favorite DJ DJ skog
Speaker: Okay, Pat. And then we could have dancing and we'd rent a box of puppies and have some Jacuzzi time. Ooh, yes. How does that sound? That sounds wonderful. Alright, let's do it. Friday. Next Saturday. One week from today. You better have all that ready.
Speaker: oh god better get on that box of puppies yeah i i will be thoroughly sad if i don't pull up to your house a week from today and there isn't a or one day after this episode airs and there isn't a box of puppies were you there that day remember when uh because our office was next to that pet smart that we used to work at
Speaker: one day they brought over some of the puppies literally just i think they were they wanted some puppy petting they were bored and they had puppies that needed to i don't know i just remember they came over it was sort of like they would sometimes come over from that starbucks down the way and just bring us free samples if they were like bored because they wanted you to pet puppies not sample a new starbucks i know i preferred the puppies honestly
Speaker: It was better than any Starbucks sampler or like Hooters friggin coupon they came around with. Yeah. Oh, puppy parties. Yes. Oh, so cute. All the puppies. All right. Oh, anyway, I just had to end that on a little bit of a better note, but yeah. Whoopee. Your case was crazy.
Speaker: And we'll be back for more craziness after this quick break. Right? Buckle in. Get yourself a snack. It's gonna be rough. We're gonna do some refills. That tea is really hitting you.
Speaker: I chronically yawn. It doesn't matter what time of day or what I'm drinking. I'm always yawning. Just gonna get me some of that air. Yeah. God, you think I'd have the worst lung function ever. The amount I yawn. Your brain loves that good oxygen. Yummy, yummy, yum.
Speaker: Welcome back y 'all. We are Huff and Air. Yawning. Cause it's 9 o 'clock on a Saturday and the piano man, isn't that a piano man lyric?
Speaker: you got us feeling all right i have no idea and i even oh come on i even analyzed piano man in high school for like an english project i don't remember i like that song i don't know anyway yeah we're old shut up okay apparently so very very old
Speaker: it's bloody hard to keep awake when the i was gonna say the sun hardly comes out and you want to heart hibernate because there's 10 feet of snow outside it's like minus 35 it's been minus 25 for like three weeks it feels like it definitely since christmas we've had this bloody cold snap yeah
Speaker: And yeah, minus 35 for y 'all Americans. Apparently it's almost minus 40.
Speaker: it is yeah yeah we're like we would still be like in the minus 20s there so it's it's fucking cold here and yeah no it doesn't always get this cold in this part of Canada but when it does Jesus Christ and not normally for like this long normally it's only for like a day maybe two at most this is like literally we had one day where it was like minus 12 and then it immediately went back to like minus 35 again
Speaker: Just kidding. Yeah. You thought it was warming up. No, it's gonna be hell on earth. Yep. It's January. What did you expect? Oh, Lord. I don't know. I have to. We've been taking extra literal vitamin D this year. That's a good idea. Yeah.
Speaker: But, and I keep telling everybody that we haven't seen our solar panels in like a month because of the fucking snow. But anyway. Yay! We're thriving. It's 2022. What can we say? Exactly.
Speaker: No, it's supposed to warm up in a couple days, so I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, it is like your, I think your sinuses get affected when it's like cold out because it like, I think it makes your nose run more to protect it or something.
Speaker: And it's always made it harder for me to breathe. Um, they'll tell you that, especially as an asthmatic that like, yeah, the cold weather, we'll set it off more. And yeah, when I tried to walk the dog the other day, cause, um, Pat has had his appointment or something and Akita's really liked to go on their schedule. You can walk, you walk him at 10 30, 11 every day. He expects a walk at about 10 30 or 11 every day.
Speaker: He doesn't care that it's minus fucking 30. They're like huskies, they're so fluffy. Yeah, he's big and he's so furry. But he did not, he was not even staying out very long outside for his pee break, so it has been a little, almost a little too cold for him too. Aw, he's a little tender now. He's an old friend there. He's not hardy no more.
Speaker: Oh no, yeah, you can't sit on that snow so long. A little bum hole will freeze because he's got that curly tail so he'll just sit right up. Yeah. Oh gosh. I'm sorry, what was I saying? That was a tangent. Dog bites. Oh no, you were blowing your nose so it was fine. Yep.
Speaker: we were talking apropos of nothing and then it became dog butts somehow it's always dog butts it's always dog butts dog butts all the way down corgi butts are great butts are great dog butts oh so cute little sploot there's this website thing that you can upload your
Speaker: animals it's like pup vote and you could put your puppies and maybe cats I'm not sure and then people can vote on your animals pictures and then I think if you win the contest you can win a little bit of money that's cool yeah I was like yes putting up that picture that Kelsey took with the little Santa yeah that one's that's pretty cute it is a bunch of people commented on it already
Speaker: I was like, Fenrir, Fenrir, look here. No, no, don't play with the hat. No, you don't even know the hat's on here. Just look over here. And I kept snapping. Right? And then didn't his attitude change once you had food in your hand? He was like, then he'll do anything. Yeah.
Speaker: He starts doing everything he thinks you want. He jumps up, he lays down, he's like, what do you want? What do you want? I'll do it. What do you want from me? I'll do all the things right now. Oh yeah, frequently I'll tell him to sit and he just gets so excited. He just lays right down and I'm like, okay, good enough. You'll do me one better, I guess.
Speaker: He's just skipping a step. He's jumping at me. He's like, will I get two if I do this? Sit down. I can lie down. Oh, man. Anyway, so for my case for New Zealand, I chose one when we were going through cases. I know you may have read a little bit about it because you said it sounded familiar or you would
Speaker: Yes, had come across the name while also looking for a case. And I was like, yeah, that sounds interesting, even though I didn't read very much. Okay, perfect.
Speaker: Because it is interesting and hopefully there isn't very much overall. But it is just kind of bizarre altogether. So this is a case revolving around Elizabeth or Betty Benning.
Speaker: Betty! Yeah. Love it. Cute name. So in September of 1977 in Karori, Wellington, New Zealand. Wellington. Yeah. Like the boots. Those are British.
Speaker: Police visited the home of Alfred, age 65, and his wife, Elizabeth, or Betty Benning, age 63, while they were actually investigating Betty's supposed disappearance.
Speaker: Oh, supposed disappearance, okay. So at this point, Betty and Alfred had become like estranged in their relationship, but they were still living in the same house. Oh, okay. Yeah. They're separated, like they're not together, together. Yeah, they're like as not together as two people could possibly be.
Speaker: Oh no. So the pair had been married 20 years earlier in 1957 and both of them had been married I think once before each. And it was said that their relationship was good at first but it soured pretty quickly and it soured within a couple years of this 20 year marriage.
Speaker: This is one of those things where people don't get divorced because they don't believe in divorce or society or whatever.
Speaker: It's like, come on. You're miserable. Yeah. So Alfred, um, even went as far as to say that they, he actually, they didn't really know very much about each other when they got married and that he somehow, I don't know, didn't even know Betty's married name, like maiden name or much anything like about her past.
Speaker: Okay, it was like maybe you should have can covered that before you got married Was it was it just sex you guys? There was no talking In a police statement Alfred's Unlike the flip side in a police statement Alfred said quote all I can say is that you would not meet a better woman always nice and always kept the house nice and
Speaker: Oh, that's all they're good for. Yeah. That house nice. Keep that house nice. Sorry, my default accent is southern.
Speaker: Always. I realize we're in New Zealand, guys. I know. So after a few years, it's reported that they like basically stopped speaking. They didn't even talk to each other. And that they had moved at this point into like separate rooms in a
Speaker: podcast I listened to it went as far as to say that they had like pretty much divided the house and might as well have like drew lines on the floor like they had they had separate things about like what times you were allowed to go in the kitchen and what times you could watch TV or do laundry or anything so that they would never like physically never see each other be in the same room and
Speaker: That's a real lot of effort to not see someone. Pretty intense. It is. And like, yeah, I can tell you from experience that it is very difficult to ignore someone you're living in a house with. And it's like, yeah, it's like, why? Why were they bothering? They don't have children? No. Sounds a bit.
Speaker: And at that point, that would be good for the children anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and two, both of them had been married before and clearly divorced or got out of the situation. So like, why didn't you just do that again?
Speaker: Right? Like you're not like who the fuck Henry VIII or whoever had to leave the religion because there was no divorce. Yeah, no. Like figure it out. And it's reported that six months before Betty's disappearance her lawyer had actually sent letters, I don't know how many of them, to Alfred specifically asking for like more money. I guess she had like a weekly allowance.
Speaker: So she was asking Alfred for more money as well as joint ownership of the house. Damn. So she's having to fight for her like possessions and position. Yeah, probably. And so when police were kind of investigating Betty's disappearance, they noticed that while talking about Betty, Alfred was consistently referring to her in the past tense.
Speaker: I just rolled my eyes so hard. What's his name again? Sorry? Alfred. Oh yeah, not a good look Alfred. You're a dumbass. No, he really is a dumbass. He's so stupid.
Speaker: Oh my god, Al. Come on, Al. So Alfred had also told family friends that Betty had flown to Canada to help her sister, who had recently been involved in like some sort of serious accident. And what? Yeah, so like this was all her friends that Yeah.
Speaker: But Betty's friends remembered a few weeks before this when Betty herself had told them that she thought Alfred was quote up to something and that they might not see her again. Oh my god, ladies. Does anyone need to be told that if they have to, if they find themselves saying that, that it's time to get out? Yeah. Oh my god. I mean, not that you can always just get out if it's like,
Speaker: abusive but it's like they don't even talk why are they bothering yeah exactly it's like literally pack a bag and go to your friend's like freaking couch if you think this person's gonna murder you
Speaker: I know, you would call it being lazy because you're like, oh, you're just too lazy to like get up and actually separate and go through all the things it would take. But then you're like, but it's taking so much effort to do what you're doing. Right? Yeah. Um, so Alfred was kind of unusual, I guess. I don't know. It's a legitimate job. Um, so.
Speaker: It's just weird that this is what he did for work. He was a retired SPCA, it said inspector. So part of his job with like animals was he was required to euthanize animals and for some reason was required to do this in the basement of the house. What? That's not...
Speaker: What I expected his job duties would be if he was supposed to be the inspector. I thought he would be inspecting the facilities. Right? That's what I thought too. And if anyone doesn't know what that is here, it's like the animal shelter place.
Speaker: I forget what it stands for, but we used to go there and walk the dogs when I was a kid. Yeah, you could go and adopt there. So it sounds like he was kind of responsible for going around and collecting strays and stuff that needed to be euthanized for whatever reason. I just find it weird that he did this in his house. Yeah, that does seem weird. That sounds like it's a legitimate job.
Speaker: I guess, but it's weird that this is his job. So, according to Betty, and she had told her friends about this, that Alfred, for part of the job, I don't know how much he used it, had built some sort of like gas chamber in the basement of the house, and she had told her friends that she was worried he might one day put her in it.
Speaker: I mean, and these are the reasons why these things aren't done at home. You're like, oh yeah, I can just easily, you know, get rid of cadavers here and then taxidermy a whole animal too. It's just a great little, I feel like just like what must your house smell like? Just to have rescues and euthanizing animals in the basement. And then what, carrying the back?
Speaker: to a facility to have them cremate? Like what? That doesn't make sense. Good thing you mentioned, or like perfect you mentioned that. So on September 13th, Alfred had asked his neighbor who was a crematorium manager. It was like a legit business crematorium. That was like, I think city or state run or something. And his name was Jesse Earp.
Speaker: And Alfred had asked if he could use the crematorium's wheelbarrow for an undisclosed reason. And Jesse Earp, the manager of the crematorium, declined to give company property, the wheelbarrow to him, but instead offered his own up for personal use if Alfred wanted that one. But Alfred replied that that one was too small for what he needed it for.
Speaker: Oh my god. Okay. Too cheap to go buy one so you're just gonna advertise to the whole neighborhood. Oh yeah. And then 10 days later on September 23rd police visited Alfred at the house again looking into Betty's disappearance and found him working on an outdoor incinerator. I assume that he used for the euthanizing of animals.
Speaker: But again, it's on their physical property. It's gross. Right? Don't you have to have a permit for that? You must nowadays. Yeah. Oh, sorry. When was this? This was the 70s. Yeah. I feel like it's too recent. I feel like even in the 70s, having a gas chamber in your basement and an outdoor incinerator in your backyard would be kind of weird.
Speaker: It's at least bad for the neighborhood property values. Yeah. Um, so yeah, on September 23rd, police go and visit Alfred at the home and are asking him about Betty again and find him working on this outdoor incinerator. And they try and approach it, but he tells the police to stay away from it because the ground was very muddy. Don't want to get muddy, I guess.
Speaker: right okay then yeah whoops sorry to bother you no god forbid you step in mud uh so i don't know if it's at this time but police were searching the house um i don't know if it's the same day as this and they actually found some books on alfred's nightstand and can you guess what these books were about just take a wild guess you'll probably be right
Speaker: murder no yeah like literally um reportedly from the podcast i listened to they said five out of the seven books on his nightstand explicitly were like how to get away with murder how to murder your spouse how'd like all these things and they ever was like notes in the margin and he had like dog -eared pages and like underlined and highlighted things oh yeah
Speaker: like they came from the library this way oh my god you might as well be reading murder for dummies and your bookmark is your knife yeah covered in blood with a label on it saying this is the knife i murdered her with your bookmark is a literal smoking gun
Speaker: um yeah so then they start searching the property and they notice a freshly dug like freshly dug like soil that's near an apple tree in the couple's backyard and they start inspecting it and god he was just planting some more apples so they start digging inside this uh i guess around this apple tree and they find betty's body
Speaker: um yeah so no surprise though no uh alfred had cut her into six pieces and wrapped her up in newspaper so like dexter style um but he had the incinerator on his property yeah that's the weird thing oh my god you can't write this you can't make this shit up i know
Speaker: um yeah it plays into later on in the court they're like literally if he was trying to get away with it he did everything wrong like he read all the books underlined everything and then just said fuck it we'll see what happens i don't trust my gut i'm pretty smart yeah
Speaker: uh so yeah police are searching they find her body and they also find a denture plate and then metal corset fittings i don't know what those are like
Speaker: um like the the the parts of the corset that's hard and gives it its shape but like fittings i haven't heard it called that way yeah that's what i was saying yeah i was like i don't know what fittings are um so those were actually found when the police searched the incinerator on the property so i mean he used the incinerator for some stuff but not for her actual body what yeah
Speaker: What the hell, buddy? So Alfred was arrested for the murder and as well charged for like dismembering her body. And... Okay. Yeah, so this is where it gets really weird. Alfred has like just the most bizarre like timeline of events of what he says happened and then it just gets stupider from there of like
Speaker: Yeah, I wish I could have like found a lot more information on this, but literally the exact same things were said just in every single source I looked at just over and over and over again. Yeah, I did try and look and see if metal corset quote unquote fittings were a thing.
Speaker: and not that I can find they might just be referring to the clasps if they have the little clasp hook things maybe but also there are some hot corsets that I need right now damn different colors okay anyway sorry um yeah so Alfred was claiming that this was all in self -defense I chopped up my wife in self -defense
Speaker: Oh my god. So he said that Betty was acting suicidal on September the 12th and for some reason in her suicidal
Speaker: Whatever was going on? Yeah, she ran into the it says the lounge so again probably like the living room. Oh My god, they saw that the call was called the lounge. Okay. Sorry. I didn't know this was a thing. I didn't know either Yeah, so she ran into the lounge that night carrying a carving knife in her hand and Out with the knife. Yeah
Speaker: Alfred said that for some reason, I don't know, maybe she tried to attack him and her trying to commit suicide, she attacked him and he ended up in self -defense having to kick her in the stomach and then strangle her with some sort of cord. Completely logical set of events. Yeah, super awesome.
Speaker: Oh yeah. I'm sorry. I got stuck on another thing that isn't logical. It's not logical that we call it a living room here. You live in every room of your house. A lounge actually makes a lot more sense. Yeah. A bonus room. But it does make me think of a bar. Yeah, a bonus room. Oh god. Stupid names for things. Part one. This is the sitting room. Oh, the parlor. It's the parlor.
Speaker: uh then why do we have to have a living room and a den and a family room oh my god okay there's just fancy ways of saying like this one has a tv and this one doesn't oh they should all have TVs no
Speaker: Everything in Vegas has a TV, all the mirrors and the fancy hotels have TVs. Okay, well not everyone but like we saw some fancy ass sweets that had like mirrors or TVs in the mirrors in the bathroom. Yeah, I've heard of that before. I've never stayed anywhere with it, but I've heard of it.
Speaker: It is a little much considering we all have our phones now and they're all smartphones these days and it's essentially a TV anywhere we want it, including on the toilet. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I already carry my laptop everywhere. I don't also need a TV on everything. You're like, I literally have one in front of me. Mine's portable. I have a portable TV. It weighs two pounds and it's called a laptop.
Speaker: I was rereading a book the other day that was essentially a diary from, um, like the year 2005, 2006. And like, they were like, and then he could carry it with him because he had a internet for a cell phone on his sprint card. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, this was like 15 years ago and it sounds like it's from another planet. Yeah. Oh.
Speaker: technology that's crazy i'm so sorry carry on um okay so the next is oh these are a few quotes from alfred um yeah so it says i just got a bloody shock when i saw she was finished
Speaker: Great way to say that I murdered her. Um, I just got that much of a shock. I just, I was just walking around and collapsed in a chair. Um, and quote, he said this the next morning or sorry, the next morning he set to work trying to get rid of any evidence as well as the body. Uh, quote, seeing that I was not strong enough to lift the body. I dragged it from the bedroom out into the laundry and cut it up with a meat chopper.
Speaker: Oh my god, how quickly she became the body. Yeah. My god, do you think he was thinking about this for years beforehand? We'll get to it. There's some stuff in the podcast I listened to that I don't know. I kind of could go either way on that.
Speaker: yeah um so alfred then cleaned up the laundry room and then um when police were searching it they did actually find traces of betty's blood like on the floor boards that were underneath the linoleum floor in the laundry room so i guess he did a decent job cleaning up the laundry room wow um surprising yeah
Speaker: Um, so this was his lawyer, as you kind of mentioned, um, or, and we were talking about that, uh, quote, if he carefully planned this, he did a very bad job. I love this. This is his lawyer's defense.
Speaker: uh surely if you had got an interest in this subject if you're planning a murder would you really bury the wife in your back in the backyard uh anybody would know that this would be the first place the police would go would go to search with a freshly planted apple tree to mark the spot end quote
Speaker: His defense is like, nobody could be this stupid. Yeah, your honor, my, the defense is so stupid. How stupid is it? He's so stupid. Oh my god. Um, that kind of reminds me, oh my god, I'm so sorry. Did you see The Doctor Death yet or listen to that podcast though? No.
Speaker: We did watch it recently and it was good. It was good. Yeah. I watched the show on prime or something with Pat and kind of laughed because I had been watching the fringe too. And I was like, Oh shit. I didn't realize this had Josh with Jackson too. And Pat like isn't a huge fan of his. So he kind of enrolled as I was like, yeah, it is.
Speaker: But no, it was. It was pretty good considering all the hype I had heard about it being good. But yeah, it just kind of made me think of the courtroom scene they have when they're eventually trying the guy. No real big spoiler alert there. Yeah. I mean, he's called Dr. Daddy.
Speaker: Yeah, they figured it out eventually and tried him, but yeah, they're like something to do with the defense. He doesn't even want to disparage his own reputation even then when he's on trial because that's all he has, man. It's so stupid. Well, it's not stupid, but you know. Yeah. Killer's reasonings are stupid. I can murder people, but how dare you say I murdered people?
Speaker: Or that I'm a bad doctor. Yeah, exactly. That guy had issues for fucking sure. Yeah, I definitely want to watch that one. Anyway, so his lawyer was also saying and pleading with the jury to ignore the library books that the police had found on Alfred's bedside. Again, five out of seven of which were about homicide.
Speaker: and you know during the trial the detectives also revealed that Alfred had attempted to empty the couple's bank account after Betty disappeared and empty okay he had attempted to I don't think he was successful
Speaker: And then I wish I could have found a little bit more about this. It was mentioned in like a couple of the sources. So they did say that he was maybe attempting to empty the bank account because he spent the 11 days in between Betty's murder and until he was arrested, apparently entertaining sex workers like at the house.
Speaker: Oh my god, he had himself a little party. He had a little pamper party. Connection! And his two went bad, no. He invited over a little harem. He was like, oh, don't I get this reward now? Oh my god. Wow. So the sex workers he was inviting over, he reportedly had met at a notorious local cafe.
Speaker: that at the time based on the podcast I was listening to and information I looked up after um it was likely called the purple onion and oh that is a common name for a bar I think we had one of those back home in Fredericton yeah this one might be a little different no is there one called that here in Edmonton purple onion or the red onion
Speaker: Damn, I feel like I've been to a purple onion. I don't know. Um, but this one in New Zealand in the seventies was known, uh, known spot for people who were cross dressing, um, and also involved in sex work. Okay. And he reportedly even hired one of the possibly cross dressing, but definitely a sex worker, um, to be his housekeeper.
Speaker: And like in this 11 day period, he hires this person to be his housekeeper. And this individual then noticed kind of weird behavior he had around the house and ended up calling the police on him being like, dude. Wow. Yeah. That's cool though.
Speaker: Yeah, I also update there is a purple onion bar in Edmonton. That is where I went to it here. That's funny. I wonder if it's like a mod to this at all, because it has like an interesting thing. I have a bit about it at the end.
Speaker: oh my god sorry okay um but no i did actually i didn't include it in my notes but in looking it up i did run across the name of the housekeeper and stuff there's like a bunch they were involved as being like a witness in something and some other crimes and it was like a whole thing so oh yeah they kind of seemed like they had a really really rough life so
Speaker: wow and then they turned this guy in yeah is what you're saying okay interesting um so after three hours of deliberation alfred benning was found guilty of murder and jailed for life and thank god yeah in the one source i was
Speaker: looking at and I think maybe in the podcast too, they said that the police arrested him and his neighbor. Um, I don't know if this is the neighbor Jesse that like refused to give him his wheelbarrow or how a neighbor got dragged into it. I honestly don't know. It didn't say the neighbor's name. Um,
Speaker: weird yeah but like in a weird twist of this actually the police that arrested alfred all actually really liked alfred um okay yeah no they were fond of him like as a murderer i don't know how else
Speaker: went okay. They were like, well, as far as murders go, you're the least violent we've seen. I don't know. Yeah, they said, quote, for me, it was a matter of just trying to play the humanity of the guy, the little guy who was out of his depth most of the time, not a hell of a lot different than many or not a hell, not a hell of a lot different to many of us.
Speaker: that many of us don't murder our wives. No, and he said he was playing a guy? Like playing, you know, as if he's... Oh, trying to play the humanity of the guy. So maybe like trying to focus on the humanity of him? I don't know. Or he's more manipulative than he seems. Because that was Alfred saying that, right? No, that was the police saying that about Alfred.
Speaker: So part of the stuff that I got the information from was actually a podcast I listened to because this case inspired a
Speaker: like black comedy style movie called How to Murder Your Wife um that was released yeah it was released in 2015 and the podcast i listened to um for some of the information it was like half an hour long it talked uh to one of the producers of the movie oh cool
Speaker: That's how I listened to the one with the defense lawyer. That was a different perspective. They kind of have a weird take on it. And because I couldn't get a lot of information about the case, it's hard to back up. Because they'd be like, yeah, in our research we did this. And it was just something totally left field that wasn't even talked about in anything else.
Speaker: but they did say that they talked to some of the investigators in the case that like actually had like knew Alfred at least from like when he was arrested and stuff
Speaker: Oh that's cool. But their movie is so different to how I pretty much just explained the case. The film synopsis on the website pretty much says that the film follows a passive -aggressive man
Speaker: played by Simon O 'Connor, who's spiraling toward psychosis as his emotionally abusive wife Geraldine Brophy threatens to cast his beloved dog out of the house.
Speaker: Sorry, a demon just came out of my throat. That's weird. His wife? What did they say about her? It says the film follows a passive aggressive man spiraling toward psychosis as his emotionally abusive wife threatens to cast his beloved dog out of the house.
Speaker: okay then which is like absolutely nothing that i ran across at all um that's their artistic uh take on it no they like say that this is like legit what happened in the podcast i listened to the movie producers say that alfred planned betty's murder for five years before it happened and that alfred killed betty because uh
Speaker: she did not like the dog that he had recently rescued and he refused to get rid of it and they say that Betty was a self -righteous churchgoer and that she was really like headstrong and everything like that and that Alfred was just a meek and passive and gentle little man they literally said gentle little man oh my god they are really drinking the Alfred Kool -Aid yeah
Speaker: um that's weird and they said or in the podcast the producer of this movie said because i couldn't find any research about it that alfred was in prison um and while he was in prison he became the prison librarian and at some point they didn't say what year and i didn't find it in anything i tried googling it they said he was released early due to failing health at some point
Speaker: So I tried to Google it. I couldn't even find out if he was still alive or not. Oh my God. I don't understand the movies that get made based on true stories. And the weird thing is, is I found one picture of Alfred. It's the same picture. He's literally standing there. He is like a tall, like,
Speaker: Just twig of a man and he's holding like two I think like caged dogs or something because he worked at the SPCA I think it was like an SPCA photo from like a newspaper or something, but I actually couldn't find a single picture of Betty All I could find was pictures of the actors from the movie. I couldn't find a single picture of Betty. I
Speaker: like isn't that sad yeah i really tried all i came across was like all these pictures from the movie and the cast and then this one picture of alfred i couldn't find a single picture of anything else oh yeah that sucks because like i can yeah i'll have the same problem for the instagram then i'm i don't want to just picture him but maybe i could put one of the movie or something yeah
Speaker: Poor Betty. You'd think she would have one with her obituary or something. Yeah, I couldn't find anything for her. And there wasn't anything in any of the articles. It was only ever a picture of him or the pictures from the movie. Lame.
Speaker: Yeah. If I find one, I will put it on our socials. So the podcast I listened to, there's a bunch of links to it. The one I used was the rnz .co .nz, which is the crimes, New Zealand, the murder of Betty Betting.
Speaker: Oh, okay. I was gonna say most of my articles seem to have the same, like the same website, I think. And then, so I had mentioned this, I guess, little like, I tried looking it up, cross -dressing, I guess, at the moment, I guess is the preferred term.
Speaker: Um, this little like club that he supposedly found these sex workers at. Um, so I looked it up because it said it was a notorious club and I was like, okay, let's find out more about that. Cause I don't have very much. Um, so we think the same way. Yeah. Um, this, uh, purple onion, they actually said that in the podcast. Um,
Speaker: because it was actually after the purple onion, it was called Carmen's International Coffee Lounge. Okay. They rebranded. So it was run by a actually New Zealand's first drag queen, which is kind of cool. No way. Yeah.
Speaker: That's funny. Hey girl. Yeah, she was a trans woman and her name was Carmen Rupe and she was also simply known as Carmen. She's actually very very famous in New Zealand.
Speaker: Okay, I think I was thinking when you said Carmen all of a sudden of Carmen Miranda is I think she's the one with like the fruit hat like with the bananas. Oh, yeah So Carmen yeah was New Zealand's first drag queen and like performer and she was also a brothel keeper and anti -discrimination activist would -be politician and an HIV and AIDS activist and
Speaker: Damn. That's awesome. And so she was born on October 10th of 1936 and passed away on December 14th of 2011. There's like, I read kind of just skimmed like the Wikipedia, there's a lot like going on of like different stuff that she did, that she was part of like different
Speaker: apps that were put in in New Zealand and everything for like rights and everything like that, but there was also a lot of like kind of negative stuff with like the brothel keeping and like having sex workers and stuff like that. Of course. Yeah.
Speaker: Um, so as I mentioned, she ran Carmen's international coffee lounge, which was, um, at the time was called the purple onion. So that's the one that they kind of alluded that Alfred like went there on a regular basis. So maybe he was hiding like some sort of secret, like double life of either cross dressing or possibly being gay or who knows.
Speaker: okay um that was their speculation yeah and uh so Carmen also ran a place called the balcony strip club oh um also sounds like a good time um but she is pretty beloved in New Zealand um so her silhouette actually is used as um
Speaker: You know like on our crosswalks it's basically like green with that little like white little walking man. So in New Zealand there's actually four walking signals that use her silhouette.
Speaker: In New Zealand there's four pedestrian crosswalks on Cuba Street in Wellington and they were actually installed in August of 2016 to mark the 30th anniversary of the Homosexual Law Reform Act.
Speaker: I tried to look to see if that was mentioned anywhere else on her Wikipedia to see if maybe she was like involved in that act being passed or something, but it wasn't really mentioned. Yeah, but that was like a little bit about
Speaker: because I was just wondering why did they say it was like oh yeah he met like this sex worker and hired them to be his like housekeeper out of this notorious like cross -dressing coffee shop and I was like wait what yeah I was like that's a weird sentence
Speaker: Well, I know after the description stuff. Yeah, it's good thing you mentioned that again because I keep forgetting that it's a coffee shop, even though. Yeah. You said coffee lounge because I was like, that's a long name. I'm writing down the acronym. Cove international coffee lounge. Whatever. Yeah. I'm like, that's really long, but it doesn't make a cool acronym. So it's. Yeah. But at some point it was called the purple onion.
Speaker: Oh my god. Yeah and it was like a little cafe. Welcome back to the purple onion. All layers. But yeah. Wow. It's kind of cool. But yeah that's really all I could find about the case. I went through like a bunch of different things and it was like the same few paragraphs about like Alfred and
Speaker: nothing that I could back up about him planning it for five years or this being about a dog or anything other than people talking about the movie and that that was what happened in the movie and that's what the producers said happened but again the producer said that they talked to multiple police that were involved in the case so weird I don't know
Speaker: Yeah, it's I know I always take the movies with a grain of salt but That's yeah seems completely off the mark. Yeah, cuz I'm like oh and then like his emotionally abusive wife and Threatening his dog and they I can't remember what they said the name of the dog was and they even asked like the person interviewing the producer even asked well what happened to the dog at the end and they're like
Speaker: I think somebody, like a co -worker at the SPCA, like took the dog in or something. Aww. And was like, okay. Did he write the movie? Because I don't explain a lot. No. No. He was busy being like a librarian or whatever. So stupid. Oh my god. Yeah. Weird. I'm like, I have no idea on this one. But why did you just get a divorce? Yeah, I thought that was going to be crazy. I mean, it is crazy, but at the same time,
Speaker: it does seem like they fluffed it up for the movie or whatever because yeah no i'm like why this couple just didn't get a divorce or like i have no idea like seriously sounds like they lived together for almost 20 whole years just loathing each other my god life's too short that's so petty
Speaker: Oh, yeah. On the flip side of that, I've heard things that say if you stay together after the pandemic, you should get like a medal or something. And then I was thinking the other day, you should know you should get free COVID couples counseling because you could probably need it.
Speaker: It's like they say like having the first kid or like getting married like planning a wedding it's all the like super super stressful like oh just brings out the bickery things and people oh definitely oh yeah oh it's tough but this this keeps me going yeah yeah yeah friends can be an escape you need lots of friends
Speaker: Oh man, yes. Friends, I've always been my free therapy. You just get them to listen. Yeah, that's all you need sometimes. Oops, I squeaked. Oh no. No, you were so good chair. Well, next week we've got some Hollywood curses coming at you guys. Yeah, I think it'll be kind of cool.
Speaker: There's a lot of history we've discovered just trying to pick one. Yeah, I wanted to go with one I didn't know much about because there's a number of fun. Yeah, a lot of like the other movie ones and stuff I've kind of heard over the years and other podcasts have done so.
Speaker: Exactly and so I think that I'm like that too where I'm like yeah I've heard of that so then probably a lot of people have so maybe something different. Yeah like a couple ones. Yes I'm very excited for that one and it's gonna be good so we'll see you then. Yeah in the meantime you can leave us reviews and readings wherever you can we really appreciate it.
Speaker: It's very exciting when you get ratings on the ones that rank you. Yeah. Like we just got ranked number 24 in the top indie true crime chart today. Yeah. And the top like hundred were number, what did you say? Well today we got up to 24. 24. That's insane you guys. Yes.
Speaker: And that's even with the two -star rating I berated my brother about. You ruined our perfect five -star streak. Go give us a good five -star rating on Good Pods right now, you guys. If he changes it, it will be like go to like number two. Yes. Can you imagine?
Speaker: yeah it is it is kind of a random assortment of pods on there but that's okay um but anyway um yeah i hope to see you next week yes thanks for listening and keep it cryptic all right bye
Speaker: This has been Castles Encrypteds. You can listen to our podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Cast, and our YouTube channel.
Speaker: Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Reddit. On our website, you can listen to all of our episodes as well as view pictures for each of our segments. Check out our Patreon page to view all of our tiers and become a Patreon supporter today to unlock monthly bonus episodes and behind -the -scenes content. We are working on an Ask Us Anything. You can submit questions by social media or by email at castlesandcryptids at gmail .com.
Speaker: Do you have a spooky ghost story, a creepy cryptid sighting, or a thrilling true crime tale you would like to share and have us include in a future episode? Send us your listener story by social media or by email. Please include the name that you would like mentioned. Our music is by Cobia Fair. Our logo and artwork is by Antonio Garcia. Thanks for listening!
