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104: Can We Train Fascia?
2 Playsin 9 hours
In this episode of the Movement Logic Podcast, Laurel explores whether you can train fascia, separating myths from facts about this connective tissue. She discusses her personal journey with fascia-focused methods, including self-massage and Yoga Tune Up, and questions commonly held beliefs about fascia adaptation from exercise. Laurel critiques the metaphorical narratives versus physiological mechanisms, examining the roles of muscle, tendon, and the nervous system in recovery and training. She concludes with insights on why calling it "fascia training" might be more about branding than science.
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00:00 Can you train fascia?
02:26 Personal story
10:39 Questioning what I'd been taught about fascia
12:02 Fascia as values, worldview, group identity
16:04 How did we get here – fascia research congress
16:48 The reductionism that arose out of rejecting reductionism
18:02 The problem with overpromising around significance of fascia or training fascia
18:59 Blurring metaphor and mechanism
23:24 What is fascia?
24:03 Massage mostly stimulates skin
24:29 Deep fascia and tendons are different
25:18 Fascia not great at force transfer
26:39 Visceral massage
27:04 Training fascia is not what trains proprioception – motor learning is
28:14 What makes a tissue trainable?
33:42 Difference between general and specific training
38:22 Adhesions, trigger points, scar tissue, fibrosis
40:51 Hydrating fascia
42:35 Circulation improvements
58:19 Wrapping it up
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Transcript
Introduction to Women's Strength Training Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Laurel Biebersdorf, strength and conditioning coach. And I'm Dr. Sarah Court, physical therapist. With over 30 years of combined experience in fitness, movement, and physical therapy, we believe in strong opinions loosely held. Which means we're not here to hype outdated movement concepts. or to gatekeep or fearmonger strength training for women. For too long, women have been sidelined in strength training. Oh, you mean handed pink dumbbells and told to sculpt?
00:00:25
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Whatever that means, we're here to change that with tools, evidence, and ideas that center women's needs and voices.
Free Barbell Mini-Course
00:00:32
Speaker
Let's dive in.
00:00:46
Speaker
Hey everybody, Laurel here. Welcome to the Movement Logic Podcast. I'm all by myself today. We are answering the question, can you train fascia? Before we get into it, and we are going to get into it.
00:01:00
Speaker
ah As we
Exploring Fascia: Myths and Realities
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Speaker
do, as we do. I want to remind you that we have a free barbell mini course that you can go into the show notes and find. Just click the link there and you will receive the entire course. It is a lot of very valuable, informative content, not just around how to use barbells, but about how to do some exercises that are your staple strength training exercises, squat, bench press, deadlift, whether or not you use barbells. There's some information there that you could transfer over to other types of equipment. And we also teach you about how to use a training load chart that can predict how much weight would be about a reasonable amount of weight to lift for a given rep range.
00:01:39
Speaker
called a training load chart or a 1RM chart sometimes. And then we also teach you how to use tools of auto-regulation, R-I-R, R-P-E, how those can be used, not just in strength training, actually, you can use the RPEs, especially can be used in all forms of exercise. But these are staple strength tools that if you aren't familiar with, you're going to learn in this course as well. So it's just a very, I think, educationally rich experience. And it's free.
00:02:04
Speaker
It is free. Need I say more? Sign up for the mini course.
00:02:10
Speaker
All right, so we're going to answer the question, can you train fascia today?
Personal Experiences and Community Building
00:02:15
Speaker
So this is ah an in-betweening a short, focused, deep dive meant to tide you over between our longer episodes. So we're unpacking this big question today that has been floating around in our inbox. we We got an email from someone asking about whether or not you can train fascia.
00:02:32
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So you've probably heard the claims that when we move in a certain way, we're lengthening our fascia, we're remodeling our fascia, we're hydrating our fascia, we're releasing it, we're untangling trigger points and removing adhesions, maybe even we're strengthening it.
00:02:47
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But as it relates to exercise and training fascia, what do these words actually mean? And do these outcomes really hold up under scrutiny?
00:02:59
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This episode is going to be part of personal reflection, part myth busting. So let's get into it. In 2014, I started teaching self massage with therapy balls in my yoga classes. I discovered therapy balls and rolling on therapy balls shortly after my mom died.
00:03:12
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At the time I was grieving. I was also anxious and overwhelmed. And Therapy balls, self-massage, helped me feel something without really needing to explain what I was feeling or fix anything. They helped me really relax, I think, in ways that other forms of movement or meditation weren't able to at the time.
00:03:31
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They also gave me some relief from chronic neck, shoulder, hip, SI joint pain that I likely had cropping up from all the asana that I was doing and teaching and then all the other kinds of movement that I wasn't.
00:03:46
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But more than anything, the therapy balls grounded me at a time when grief had washed me out to sea.
00:03:57
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Now at this time I was also teaching for what was like the second largest yoga corporation in the world, YogaWorks. And YogaWorks I had a few buddies, i had friends, I definitely had colleagues that I respected enormously, but I i didn't really feel a strong sense of community at YogaWorks.
00:04:13
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I was teaching also classes that to me felt kind of cookie cutter and I was teaching poses that actually didn't feel good anymore in my body. I wanted to be teaching differently, but I had no idea how to make that change.
00:04:27
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Then I encountered Yoga Tune-Up. So Yoga Tune-Up, in contrast to YogaWorks, is a small family-owned company. And their trainings that I took gave me kind of what I was missing. a it gave me language, it gave me tools, and it also gave me community.
00:04:46
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Their movement style emphasized self-massage. So that's where I discovered the therapy balls, as well as mobility and yoga practices. But it also emphasized something harder to describe.
00:05:01
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It was a different way of relating to my body, one that felt more personal and less performative and ultimately more meaningful.
00:05:14
Speaker
And that's where I learned about fascia. Now, before Yoga Tune Up, I'd heard of fascia, but I didn't really know much about it. In their trainings, I was introduced to fascia as like this thing that Western medicine had ignored for so
Fascia's Role in Body Awareness and Interconnectedness
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long. You know, literally cutting it away in dissections and just tossing it into a bucket in order to get at the quote unquote important stuff.
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But at the time I was, you know, in this... yoga tune-up community and I was aware of other fascia-informed communities like rolfing and structural integration. I felt like we knew better than this.
00:05:54
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Like we weren't just rolling around on balls. We were paying attention to this really important system of the body, this system of tissues that everyone else had missed. We were exploring our fascia and in so doing mapping our inner universe.
00:06:12
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So I was taught that fascia is a full body web that connects everything from your feet to your head. And it's many layered. Some of it is dense. Some of it is cloud-like. Some of it is more like gossamer.
00:06:26
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And it needs movement to stay hydrated. It can get stuck. it sometimes needs to be released. In fact, pain in one part of the body might be caused by dysfunction in some of the fascia of a distant area through these linked fascial lines. So in this way, rolling on therapy balls became like detective work, a search for root causes of pain, a way to also restore, slide and glide, to improve circulation, to hydrate, to unwind.
00:06:59
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these soft tissue issues, and not just the physical ones, the emotional ones too.
00:07:06
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So I started integrating the therapy balls directly into my YogaWorks classes. And that was a departure from conventional YogaWorks teaching. right I was kind of bringing in this extra thing. And so I'd have my students do 10 to 20 minute self-massage sequence before we started the actual asana practice. And I would refer to the therapy balls as instruments of inquiry.
00:07:28
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tools for increasing proprioception. I told students that rolling helped them drop a pin on the map of their body in their mind, like preparing their GPS system to be able to locate that area later in the practice and move more clearly or intentionally from that area. And while I didn't always say it directly, i often implied too that students would be able to access other layers beyond just these physical layers of movement, but also emotional and energetic layers that were stored somehow in our body that we had not discovered yet, or that were trapped.
00:08:06
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I had felt this myself, especially in the early months of grieving my mother. I had felt the effect of those therapy balls almost giving me access to feelings I couldn't get to another way.
00:08:18
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And as I became a Yoga Tune-Up trainer, I began teaching other teachers how to teach self-massage. Required viewing in the trainings I taught for Yoga Tune-Up included Gil Headley's Fuzz Speech and Jean-Claude Gimberto's Strolling Under the Skin.
00:08:34
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These videos told a story that fascia had been overlooked for too long. They gave fascia this emotional resonance. Gimberto's video, which is really cool, is actually an in vivo look at forearm fascia.
00:08:49
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So he figured out a way to get a camera inside of a living a forearm as it's experiencing surgery. And it shows this fascia in motion. It's gleaming, fibrous, glistening aliveness.
00:09:02
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It's really beautiful. And the overarching feeling from both of these videos, Gimber Toh video and the Gil Headley video, is that, you know, can you believe you didn't know about this tissue before now?
00:09:14
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Aren't you glad you do now? Isn't this amazing? And aren't you glad you can finally start paying attention to this part of yourself that everyone has been overlooking and downplaying.
00:09:25
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Gil Headley, I believe, coined the term somonat, soma body, not voyager, a voyager of the inner body or the body. And that's how I like to see myself. I like to see myself as an explorer or a voyager of my body and as a guide for students to be able to explore their bodies and this vast terrain that others don't know exist, right?
00:09:48
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this This fascial body.
00:09:52
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And so looking back, hindsight is twenty twenty i can see how I was ready to believe all of this at that time in my life. I i was at this time in my life when I encountered yoga tune-up, when i encountered self-massage, when I encountered this idea of fascia, became aware of the existence of fascia.
00:10:08
Speaker
I was a very vulnerable state, more so than usual. I had just lost my mom. I was also disillusioned at my job. I was in search of something meaningful personally and professionally. And Yoga Tune Up gave me a sense of direction and belonging. And I needed that.
00:10:23
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And yes, eventually i did have financial incentive to promote the method. But at least starting out and in the early years, it didn't feel transactional. I truly believe self-massage worked.
00:10:34
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because of how it had personally helped me, but also because of the wonders of fascia that I was learning about. This tissue so central apparently to our experience. So I taught others about fascia, what I had been taught. And you better believe I taught it with conviction. I told students therapy balls could improve their posture, could hydrate their tissues, could break up scar tissue, could increase Increase circulation.
00:10:57
Speaker
Could even release motions that were being held onto. I repeated these claims because they sounded logical, but more more so they felt right. They felt true for me. And while it's real and valid that rolling on therapy balls felt good for me, feels good for others, maybe leaves people feeling better than they did before they rolled, i have started to question the explanations around what specifically does change.
00:11:24
Speaker
while we're rolling on
Critique and Concerns of Fascia-Centric Models
00:11:25
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balls, what specifically does affect those good feelings? I started to question the explanations behind what we were doing to our fascia, specifically, when we were rolling on balls.
00:11:35
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And I've come to realize that just because something feels helpful Doesn't mean the story we tell about why it helps is accurate. Because when you look at what we now know, and honestly have known for a while, about biomechanics, tissue adaptation, posture, and pain science, and yes, fascia, many of the stories don't hold up.
00:11:56
Speaker
The stories about improving posture, the stories about hydrating, the stories of about massage breaking up scar tissue, or stories about emotions being stored in fascia.
00:12:07
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lot of these are overly simplified. They're not shown in evidence, or they're just physiologically inaccurate. Over time, I stopped believing many of the things I used to teach about fascia. However, I have never stopped believing that self-massage helped me and helped create a felt experience of space in my body, especially during that time when I felt particularly stuck So those benefits matter, and they still do.
00:12:33
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And I still know for sure that many people benefit enormously from massage. I just realized now, I'm going to share my discoveries with you, but also ask you some questions. I just realized now that it's probably not so much because of fascia, actually.
00:12:48
Speaker
And so all of this has led me to a bigger question, not just about fascia as a tissue, but about fascia as an idea. Like over the years, I've come to realize that fascia has become more than our anatomy, more than a system or a tissue type.
00:13:03
Speaker
It's become almost like a paradigm. For us, fascia offers not just an explanation of physical sensations, but a way of seeing the body and by extension, ourselves.
00:13:15
Speaker
In yoga, bodywork, somatic circles, fascia isn't usually just treated as a connective tissue. I mean, it is, but it's often also playing another role. It's like a stand-in for talking about complexity, or it's a symbol of interconnection. It becomes almost a metaphor for our values or a metaphor for Everything conventional models seem to have left out, like intuition, emotion, energy, and embodiment.
00:13:53
Speaker
The rise of fascia as almost a framework, I believe, seems to parallel a broader frustration with Western medicine.
00:14:06
Speaker
or science in general, and what is perceived to be ah reductionist thinking that dominates these fields. In these fields, the body, it often seems, is treated like a machine or a collection of discrete parts.
00:14:23
Speaker
bones, joints, muscles, nerves that can be isolated, diagnosed, fixed. um Cold, hard data is king. Or if it can't be measured, it doesn't exist. If it can't be seen on a scan, measured by a force plate, confirmed in a lab, it's dismissed.
00:14:39
Speaker
And in this model, I think people often feel dismissed too. Their pain is, quote, nonspecific. The symptoms are all in their head. Their experience gets filtered through what's legible to the system and everything else kind of falls away and doesn't count, isn't real.
00:14:57
Speaker
Whereas fascia, by contrast, seems to offer a different narrative. It represents continuity instead of fragmentation, fluidity instead of rigidity, wholeness instead of isolation.
00:15:12
Speaker
In these fascia-focused movement communities, the body isn't just a stack of anatomical structures, it's an ecosystem, an intelligent, responsive, interconnected web.
00:15:27
Speaker
And that metaphor resonates, especially for people whose experiences don't map neatly onto to clinical checklists. The language used around fascia in these fascia-focused communities of movement seem to validate things other systems seem to ignore.
00:15:45
Speaker
It says your body knows things even if the data can't explain them. You're not broken. You're connected. You're not a problem to fix. You're a system to understand. And when conventional systems have failed to help or worse, made people feel invisible or ashamed, this shift in talking about the body matters. It makes people feel seen, not just as patients or data points, but as whole humans with complex inner lives.
00:16:12
Speaker
So in this sense, fascia becomes more than a tissue. It's symbol almost of resistance as a way of reclaiming meaning in a medical culture or even a fitness culture that often feels indifferent, mechanical, sterile, overly competitive, objectifying.
00:16:32
Speaker
And for people who've felt left behind by medicine, rehab, or the broader fitness industry, that symbol of resistance is powerful. It offers almost a kind of healing logic, a story that feels like it fits.
00:16:50
Speaker
So the shift toward fasa fashionion fascia fascia fascination, fascia fascination gained momentum after the first International Fascia Research Congress in 2007. This was a moment that brought scientists and body workers together under one roof.
00:17:04
Speaker
Scientists and body workers under one roof. Since then, fascia has been the banner under which entire systems have rallied, systems that promise to reveal the body's hidden intelligence and to offer what other approaches miss.
00:17:24
Speaker
So here's where things can get tricky. Because in resisting one form of reductionism, fascia-based models often create another.
00:17:34
Speaker
like They center the single tissue in ways that overlook other systems a lot or entirely. They might center fascia and overlook the nervous system's involvement, center fascia and overlook the muscular system's involvement, center fascia and overlook the endocrine and immune system's involvement. these are the nervous system, muscular system, endocrine, and immune system, all the biggest drivers of adaptation, change, right, of perception, of coordination, and
Training Fascia: Myths vs. Science
00:18:05
Speaker
recovery.
00:18:05
Speaker
Yet in some fascia-focused frameworks, they're sidelined or referenced vaguely, and fascia really takes the center stage. And so ironically, a paradigm that may be trying to expand our view can sometimes end up narrowing it.
00:18:23
Speaker
Now, that's not to say the values of the fascia movement, like personal values of like connection, honoring complexity, acknowledging the subjectivity. It's not to say that these values aren't important. They are.
00:18:37
Speaker
But when those values get attached to claims about physiology, like to claims about what we're doing to the fascia, and those claims don't hold up, I think we run into trouble.
00:18:51
Speaker
because feeling connected to your body is meaningful. But that meaning shouldn't depend on overplaying the benefits of a particular way of rolling or moving because of what it does to fascia.
00:19:05
Speaker
That's why I think it's worth separating what fascia means to us or means to our community of movement from what it actually is and how we affect it through exercise and movement, or rather what we think we're doing to it.
00:19:21
Speaker
There are all of these fascia training systems in schools. Meanwhile, I think it's good to ask, can we even train it? Like, can we train fascia? And if we can, how do we know we are training it?
00:19:34
Speaker
I think it's important to be able to answer those questions because they attempt to connect the metaphors surrounding fascia to the mechanisms that would be involved in those positive changes occurring that we're describing.
00:19:46
Speaker
Because when this line between metaphor and mechanism becomes blurred. It becomes harder to evaluate what's actually working. Is it the exercise that's changing our fascia?
00:19:59
Speaker
Is it the influence of the community or its leader or the collective storytelling that's influencing how we feel and we're attributing it to some change to our fascia?
00:20:12
Speaker
Is the movement we're engaging in affecting the change we seek and are we explaining that change accurately? Are we affecting the change we seek through movement or are we being told a story So yes, fascia has become a movement.
00:20:28
Speaker
It's one that taps, I think, into real needs for meaning, connection, and a sense of belonging. And it's not trivial. But for many people, I think fascia-based systems provide an alternative to models that have felt cold, clinical, or incomplete.
00:20:43
Speaker
But if we want to talk about training fascia, we have to, I think, step outside of the metaphor and get a little bit more nitty-gritty into the mechanism. Because behind every fascia-based method is an assumption that fascia can be trained, that it can be targeted, that it can be changed, that it can be improved through specific inputs, and that we would want to do this that rolling, stretching, bouncing, flowing, pulsing, that it can train the fascial system, change the fascia in a way that will leave us better off.
00:21:18
Speaker
In you know the same way that we know we can change the muscular system through strength training, or we can affect tendons through plyometrics, or that we can affect bone through impact. Can you actually train fascia?
00:21:32
Speaker
That's the core claim, that you can, right? And it raises some some key questions. So if we can train fascia, if we can train it, like we can train muscles, we can train bones, we can train tendons, what actually happens to fascia when we train it?
00:21:48
Speaker
How does it change? And how do we measure that change? How do we observe and measure that change? What kind of stimulus is required to change fascia? What is the magnitude of that stimulus, the rate that it needs to be applied, the duration that we need to experience it?
00:22:05
Speaker
How long does it take for fascia to change? How long does it take to see adaptations to fascia? And what exactly about the fascia would change? The collagen orientation, the elasticity, the structure.
00:22:19
Speaker
Some believe you can remodel fascia by removing adhesions or untangling trigger points. And then after all of this, if we find that, yes, fascia can be affected by movement or load, I'm sure that it can, by the way.
00:22:32
Speaker
I'm just not sure we can specify how it's affected, given our current tools of knowing this. But let's say we find that, yes, fascia can be affected by movement in these like discernible ways, these measurable ways. The next question is, are fascia-based methods more effective at producing these changes to fascia than conventional, traditional forms of strength and conditioning, for example, cardiovascular training?
00:22:58
Speaker
OK, so these questions might sound theoretical, but they're not. They're really about mechanism. in In exercise science, let's talk about what mechanism means. In exercise science, mechanism refers to how a specific input produces a specific output.
00:23:12
Speaker
Load a muscle, stimulate protein synthesis and hypertrophy. Load a tendon, get increased collagen production and perhaps stiffness or elasticity, depending.
00:23:25
Speaker
Load a bone. You activate osteoblasts and build density over time. Each of these adaptations follows a known series of pathways.
00:23:36
Speaker
We've got the stimulus, we've got the cellular response, we've got the structural change. And these adaptations are observable, they are measurable, they are repeatable, and that's why we can say resistance training builds muscle, plyometrics remodels tendon, impact training strengthens bone.
00:23:52
Speaker
So when we ask whether fascia can be trained, What we're really asking is, does it follow a similar logic? Does fascia respond to load with a predictable, measurable adaptation?
00:24:04
Speaker
And if so, is that change clinically or functionally meaningful? Okay, let's back up. What actually is fascia?
00:24:17
Speaker
Fascia is a type of connective tissue made primarily of collagen for strength, elastin for limited stretch, and ground substance, which is a gel-like material that helps with lubrication and diffusion.
00:24:31
Speaker
It surrounds and interweaves through muscles, bones, tendons, nerves, blood vessels, organs. It's everywhere, but it's not all the same.
00:24:41
Speaker
There are three broad categories of fascia. There's superficial fascia, which sits just beneath the skin. It's layered with fat nerve endings. It plays a role in sensation. But when you feel something during self-massage, for example, or massage, you're mostly stimulating your skin and the many nerve endings there, not the fascia itself.
00:25:01
Speaker
Although fascia does have nerve endings as well. Deep fascia surrounds and links muscle cells, bundles of muscle cells and whole muscles. It helps to compartmentalize structures and to maintain tension.
00:25:15
Speaker
Here's where I'll say many conflate deep fascia with the tendon or consider them to be kind of the same thing. We have the word myotendinous. which is the muscle-tendon connection, and then myofascial, which is the muscle-fascial connection or unit, right? Myofascial unit is like another word for muscle. Myotendinous is speaking to the continuity of the muscle with the tendon, right? We'll discuss more soon about this, but just know that deep fascia and tendon are different things.
00:25:49
Speaker
Fascia is part of the body's architecture. It's not its engine, okay? It doesn't contract like muscle. It doesn't receive motor output from the brain. It does have some elasticity, but it doesn't recoil like tendon. Here's we'll talk about force transfer, many site fascias being important for force transfer. But the deep fascia in muscle has not been shown to be a significant transfer of force.
00:26:13
Speaker
The muscle, tendon, and bones are, and this is all regulated via the nervous system, There is also some force transfer that takes place from deep fascia, yes, but most of it's happening between individual muscle fibers themselves and the fascia that wraps around them.
00:26:29
Speaker
You know, this is taking place at a level so small it's between muscle cells and that's typically not what people are talking about when they talk about force transfer, like the transfer of force from your leg to your arm in a throw, for example. Additionally, the perimysium, which is the fascia that wraps around bundles of muscle fibers, as well as the epimysium, which is the deep fascia that wraps around the entire muscle, they do have force transferability, but it's relatively minor and has only really been observed in testing conditions under very high loads.
00:27:02
Speaker
It's not really... applicable to daily life or even typical training conditions. So fascia is not really a big transfer of force. Usually that's one of the first things people talk about when they're training fascia is we're going to improve force transfer.
00:27:16
Speaker
Well the way you improve force transfer is you improve your muscles ability to produce force and then coordination and transferring it. Maybe also some tendon stiffness. Okay, and then we have visceral fascia, which suspends and supports internal organs. Some claim that manual therapy can release or hydrate these tissues, but there's no strong evidence that manual therapy can create any type of lasting change or benefit to visceral fascia.
00:27:47
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:29:12
Speaker
OK, functionally, fascia helps reduce friction. So that's one of its really important roles. It also provides structural support, and it houses sensory receptors. OK, well, the housing of sensory receptors, it's important to clarify that having mechanoreceptors That's the type of sensory receptor within fascia. doesn't mean that proprioception is caused by fascia.
00:29:34
Speaker
Proprioception is ah our a ability to sense our our position in space, right? Proprioception is not caused by fascia. It means fascia is one of many places where the nervous system gathers input for proprioception. I think this is important to mention because one of the ways fascia training is often promoted as a way to improve proprioception, right? We are training fascia to improve proprioception.
00:29:56
Speaker
But training proprioception happens anytime we are undergoing motor learning. And this could be happening in any movement. Like babies undergo motor learning when they learn to walk. Their proprioception improves by trying to walk and practicing walking, not by training their fascia.
00:30:12
Speaker
And I think that distinction matters. Just because a structure like fascia is involved in movement doesn't mean it's where the change is taking place, or that that structure is driving the movement, or that it can be trained directly.
00:30:28
Speaker
Let's talk about what makes a tissue trainable. When we say a tissue is trainable, we mean that it has a known way that it adapts. You can make a muscle stronger, able to produce more force, for example, in a number of different ways, right? There's many different adaptations that lead to improvements to strength.
00:30:46
Speaker
We also know that when something's trainable, it can be intentionally targeted through a specific stimulus. So for muscles, a muscle group can be intentionally targeted via an exercise.
00:30:58
Speaker
So we do that by lifting weights. When a tissue is trainable, the adaptation that takes place in the tissue can be observed or measured either via lab equipment or observed as a performance outcome.
00:31:12
Speaker
So a DEXA scan is lab equipment that measures changes to bone. And ah performance outcome that might indicate, say, that we've gotten stronger is that we can lift more total weight for a given number of reps in an exercise.
00:31:28
Speaker
Another thing that we observe when something is trainable is that the change meaningfully improves health, right? So when we make meaningful improvements to cardiovascular fitness, a lot of the times we also see things like improve blood pressure, enhanced heart function, as well as reduce risk of chronic disease.
00:31:52
Speaker
Now, as I said, There are tissues that are trainable. Muscle is trainable, tendon is trainable, even bone is trainable. But fascia, maybe not because there's no clearly defined or consistently observed mechanism of adaptation that fascia undergoes when you exercise it. Like we don't know if we do exercise and fascia does change, how does this happen?
00:32:15
Speaker
Additionally, there's no way to isolate fascia away from the other tissues around it to know that this exercise is, directly targeting fascia. And then there's no way to measure how it changes under normal training conditions, right? So, you know, maybe we could do surgery and figure that out, but currently that's not a viable way to observe changes to fascia.
00:32:40
Speaker
And finally, this is kind of a given, there is no current link between having better fascia and then
General vs. Specific Training Methods
00:32:47
Speaker
also having better performance, better health, or better longevity. And that follows logically from the fact that we have no reliable way of measuring changes to fashion, nor do we know of any training method that preferentially targets it, nor are there any clearly defined or consistently observed mechanisms that show how changes or improvements to fascia occur. So even if fascia does adapt, I'm sure that it does, by the way, because it's like anything else in the body, it's constantly changing in accordance to what we do and don't do. I'm sure it does adapt, but it doesn't adapt in isolation. And here's where I also want to, again, be fair and say, you know, i I'm implying probably pretty strongly that there's no such thing as training fascia.
00:33:29
Speaker
It's kind of like saying you can't isolate fascia or just train fascia. Okay, sure, but it's also true you can't just train muscle. You can't isolate tendon and just train tendon or bone and just train bone either.
00:33:42
Speaker
it's It's usually a package deal, right? Exercise generally affects everything, but depending on the type of training you're engaging in, some tissues may be affected more than others, right? Like how high impact loading can create significant changes to bone density, whereas yoga does not.
00:34:01
Speaker
But yoga might impact the nervous system to increase stretch tolerance to make you more flexible, whereas maybe that's really not what you're going to get from impact training, right?
00:34:12
Speaker
So you really can't isolate anything from the anything else around it that's being impacted. You can't isolate fascia from bones, muscles, tendons, nerves, and organs. Likewise, you can't isolate muscles from fascia, bones, tendons, nerves, and organs either.
00:34:26
Speaker
Nothing is trained in isolation, but the difference here is that muscles and tendons and to some extent bones, they can be preferentially loaded and changes to them can be measured and that's not the case with fascia.
00:34:38
Speaker
So where does this leave us? Up a creek without a paddle. No, it leaves us with a helpful distinction. I think one that gets lost in the marketing of fascia-focused methods, and it's this. Just because a tissue is involved in movement doesn't mean that it's being targeted for adaptation or that it's being trained. Just because it's affected doesn't mean that it's going to be significantly impacted. Just because you feel different afterwards doesn't mean that that change in how you feel is because of what happened to a specific tissue.
00:35:10
Speaker
Muscles are often called the most trainable tissue in the body for good reasons. We know how they respond to load. We can apply that load progressively. We can measure the outcomes. We can see changes to muscle size fairly quickly in as little as eight weeks.
00:35:24
Speaker
The same is true, though. It's harder to measure and the changes take longer for tendons and bones. These tissues are also able to adapt in somewhat predictable and measurable ways under certain conditions. But as far as we're currently able to detect now, fascia isn't.
00:35:37
Speaker
And that's okay. It doesn't make fascia irrelevant. It makes it different. And as I said, fascia may respond to load and it may adapt subtly over time. We just don't have clear tools or evidence for measuring that or even how it happens. And we also don't have evidence that these adaptations lead to meaningful improvements in pain, performance, or health.
00:35:56
Speaker
But here it might be helpful to talk about the difference between targeting the body generally with exercise versus targeting it specifically. As I said, all exercise creates general adaptations that benefit all of your tissues.
00:36:10
Speaker
This is because exercise is beneficial for body-wide systems that affect these tissues, like the immune system, like the cardiorespiratory system. But not all exercise produces the same specific adaptations to all tissues.
00:36:24
Speaker
So for example, if you're using resistance training to train for a pull-up, you're doing maybe band-assisted reps, you're doing eccentric pull-ups, you're doing lat pull-downs to target the vertical shoulder pulling strength that you're going to need for a pull-up specifically.
00:36:40
Speaker
Contrast that with... Instead, doing a full body strength program and doing ah an array of different types of exercises that target your upper body, your lower body, your core, your pushing, your pulling muscles.
00:36:55
Speaker
In the one training for a pull-up specifically with those vertical pulling strength targeting exercises, you're going to probably see a much more rapid change to your pull-up performance.
00:37:10
Speaker
than if you were to engage in a full body strength program where you will likely experience improvements to your pull-up performance beyond what it was when you were not resistance training, but they won't be as rapid or as discernible.
00:37:24
Speaker
It's going to take you longer to get a pull-up by working on whole body strength than it would if you really just focus specifically on the strength for a pull-up.
00:37:35
Speaker
We could talk about the difference between general and specific training with yoga as well, For example, practicing triangle pose regularly will create specific types of flexibility improvements for the hip and the, you know, hamstrings.
00:37:50
Speaker
And so if you practice triangle regularly throughout the week, you might see more discernible rapid improvements to your hip and hamstring flexibility for the, you know, increased range of motion in triangle, like maybe your hand can now get down to the ground. Whereas if you were to take a mix of vinyasa, yin, restorative classes, this might also yield general improvements to your hip and hamstring flexibility, but there would be a more general change to your whole body's flexibility.
00:38:20
Speaker
It would go beyond just the flexibility four triangle pose, and you'd also potentially see ah more body-wide general improvements to your coordination and your flexibility to be able to do that wider variety of poses.
00:38:34
Speaker
Okay, so here's the question now that we've talked a little bit about what it means to trained generally, to target the body generally with exercise versus like to really go after a specific goal or a specific outcome. Here's the question. Can fascia be trained specifically?
00:38:51
Speaker
Can it even be trained generally?
00:38:55
Speaker
So if we apply the same criteria to fascia that we apply to strengthening our pull-up or improving our triangle pose, we hit a wall. Because first we need to show that something changed about the fascia. We need to show, like with the pull-up, we got stronger in the pull-up. Or with triangle pose, our hip and hamstrings became more flexible for our hand to get closer to the ground.
00:39:15
Speaker
What is the outcome that we're going to use with fascia to show that this specific thing changed? Or even that this general thing changed, right? Like in the case of whole body strength training, we engage in an array of different exercises. We watch as perhaps our muscle mass increases in a number of muscle groups or our ability to do compound movements improves in terms of our ability to produce force, right? What generally would we be looking for in terms
Debunking Fascia Training Claims
00:39:44
Speaker
of our function or our performance or even our health if we were to target fascia generally?
00:39:51
Speaker
Like what would be different about us in targeting that fascia generally after targeting it in that way for however much time we need to target it for? than It was before we did, right? So before I started whole body strength training, I was weaker. And then I did whole body strength training. I'm now just generally stronger, right? Before I started doing yoga, I was really inflexible. And now that I've been doing yoga for a while, become much more flexible.
00:40:14
Speaker
With fascia, before I was training my fascia, I was, and then after it I was, what's what's the change that takes place? And then if we find that there has been a change pre and post, we need to show that this change was because of the specific stimulus to fascia.
00:40:33
Speaker
And then we need to be able to measure the change. Now, here's where I want to bring up adhesions, trigger points, scar tissue, and fibrosis, right? Doesn't training fascia alleviate these problems? Okay, based on the best available evidence, there is no strong support for the idea that exercise or manual therapy can directly break up or release adhesions, scar tissue, trigger points, or fascial fibrosis in ways that some fascia-based systems might imply that they can.
00:41:04
Speaker
And here's what we do know. Adhesions and fibrosis, these are real biological phenomenon, typically associated with injury, surgery, or chronic inflammation. But there's no clear evidence that stretching, rolling, or movement remodels these tissues.
00:41:20
Speaker
Most improvements in mobility or sensation likely come from neural adaptations, so improved tolerance or reduced guarding or altered perception, not tissue release.
00:41:32
Speaker
How about trigger points? So the existence and nature of trigger points is debated. Trigger points may reflect a combination of muscle tone, nervous system sensitization, and referred pain, not a discrete palpable fascial knot.
00:41:50
Speaker
Again, the mechanism of relief when we experience a release of trigger points is is likely neural modulation, not structural change. Scar tissue.
00:42:02
Speaker
In post-surgical rehab, some early and progressive movement may help remodel collagen and reduce excessive scarring. Yes. But this is a slow biological process and there's no evidence that general training directly remodels fascia involved in scar tissue outside of these medical contexts.
00:42:26
Speaker
So the bottom line is fascia may be involved in these issues For sure, these issues are taking place in the fascia. But current evidence suggests that improvements from training or manual therapy are mostly due to nervous system modulation, as well as improved movement and coordination, again, governed by the nervous system, and then desensitization. Again, that is in the realms of the nervous system. It's not governed by breaking down or structurally altering fascia itself.
00:42:54
Speaker
So while fascia may be affected, it's not the target that we're trying to change. It's likely also not the cause of the improvement either.
00:43:06
Speaker
So what about when a system claims to train fascia by hydrating it?
00:43:12
Speaker
The idea that you can hydrate fascia or improve circulation within fascia, specifically through massage, is also misleading.
00:43:24
Speaker
Hydration is not local. It's systemic. So you can't squeeze water into fascia like wringing it out of one part and pumping into another part. Fluid in your body is regulated by your cardiovascular and lymphatic systems, not by pressing on a tissue with a ball or a roller.
00:43:44
Speaker
Massage also doesn't directly increase blood flow in fascia. Fascia itself is relatively avascular, meaning it has a limited blood supply, especially the thicker, denser connective tissues people usually mean when they say fascia.
00:43:59
Speaker
So any increase in circulation from massage is usually superficial and largely occurs in the skin and underlying muscle, not in the fascia itself. What is happening is that massage stimulates mechanoreceptors in the skin as well as in the connective tissue, and this can send signals to your nervous system that can cause a reduced muscle tone or tension, ah temporary pain relief or this feeling of ease or looseness, this juicy feeling, right?
00:44:27
Speaker
That's what that word juicy comes from, is this like feeling of softness that almost feels like it's less dry. And then while I said, you know, circulation, yes, okay, you can improve circulation superficially with massage.
00:44:41
Speaker
It's more due to the body's response to pressure, not because you improved your body's delivery system of blood. Some evidence-based exercise interventions that do improve circulation in a meaningful way, not just locally as a result of pressure, are cardiovascular training, resistance training, and yes, some mobility training as well.
00:45:06
Speaker
Not because they work on the fascia or that the fascia needs improved circulation, but because these ways of training target the circulatory system or they target the muscular system, which is involved in circulation and that receives an enormous amount of blood.
00:45:24
Speaker
Even if fascia changes under load, which again, I'm sure it does, We can't isolate that change and we can't measure it in humans under normal training conditions. We can't reliably say that the fascia changed rather than the nervous system or the muscle.
00:45:41
Speaker
You can do fascia training systems and experience a change. And this is a really important point. I'm definitely not saying that fascia-based training methods are ineffectual or worthless.
00:45:57
Speaker
I'm just saying it's misleading perhaps to say that they train fascia or that any benefit derived from their training can be traced to the effects that they have on fascia since it's impossible to determine whether or not It was the fascia that changed that created the benefit and not like the muscle or the nervous
Fascia: A Holistic Narrative
00:46:20
Speaker
system.
00:46:20
Speaker
And it's impossible to say what particularly about this stimulus is specific to the training of fascia because we don't know that that exists yet. I also want to be clear about this. The question that we're asking this episode is not does training or does exercise or does movement help us feel better?
00:46:42
Speaker
Because in most cases it does. The question is, can you train fascia? Okay, so why if we can't train fascia? Because again, fascia doesn't have a clearly defined or consistently observed mechanism of adaptation to exercise. There's no way to isolate it from the tissues around it.
00:47:02
Speaker
No known training method preferentially is able to target it that we know of. There's no reliable way to measure its adaptation in human beings. Why target fascia? Why say we train fascia?
00:47:14
Speaker
I think that's ah that's a question that we're asking in this episode as well. Not just can you train fascia, but why are you saying that you do? It's a fair question because...
00:47:26
Speaker
Unlike muscle mass, but bone density, VO2 max, better fascia is not a validated biomarker. It's not a sign that you've improved your health, function, resilience, performance, or longevity.
00:47:43
Speaker
And even if we someday identify clear fascial adaptations, which we might, right, it could be the case that we don't know whether or not fascia changes or how it changes and we can't measure that because we haven't invented the technology to do it that's entirely possible up until this time at least no type of training has been shown to affect fascia more than it also clearly and measurably and observably affects muscle tendon ah the nervous system and even bone There's just no fascia preferential training stimulus that we know of.
00:48:16
Speaker
And until there is, claiming that you're training fascia, it's theoretical at best, but I suspect more than anything, it's it's a marketing ploy.
00:48:28
Speaker
We can definitely say that fascia is affected from all exercise, all types of moving, because exercise affects our whole body, but I don't think we can say that it's trained So here's a question.
00:48:41
Speaker
If fascia-based methods aren't actually training fascia, what are fascia-based methods actually training, right? Maybe it's self-massage, mobility, somatics.
00:48:51
Speaker
The positive effects, the benefits of doing this stuff is real, but it's probably not fascia or affecting the fascia that's the driver of those changes because these approaches don't isolate fascia and they don't produce measurable fascia-specific changes.
00:49:06
Speaker
What they do affect I think consistently and meaningfully is the nervous system. So let's take self-massage. You could extrapolate this out to massage as well. Like we've got, for self-massage at least though, foam rollers, therapy balls, hands-on techniques. um These all create local compression and shearing.
00:49:23
Speaker
This input can definitely create some fluid shift. It can increase warmth. It can stimulate mechanoreceptors. And the result of all of that could be a change in tone, tissue tone, or just perception of that area of the body. And it can sometimes also cause a change to perception of pain. It can reduce pain.
00:49:41
Speaker
But all of that's a neurological response, not a structural fascial one. Then we've got mobility work. Loaded stretching, flowing drills, somatic-based exercises might, you know, kind of be a subheading of mobility work.
00:49:57
Speaker
This type of movement is often described as releasing fascial adhesions, ah moving along fascial lines, improving slide and glide. But again, what it's likely really doing is building stretch tolerance through neuromuscular adaptations, perhaps so increasing some strength and control, particularly at end ranges. It's probably improving proprioception through motor learning.
00:50:21
Speaker
And again, these are all valuable and they can leave you feeling a heck of a lot better. They're just not fascia specific. They're more nervous system specific. There are also some trademarked movement systems like gyrotonic or functional patterns. And these might frame some of their work also in fascial language, talking about lines and spirals and tensegrity.
00:50:42
Speaker
right And when you break it down, these formats are resisted movement, utilizing apparatuses that have cables and and levers and pulleys and things like that. and And they probably all build some coordination, motor skill within the exercises they train. But these adaptations that would take place from all of this are, again, largely neural and not fascial.
00:51:03
Speaker
um But you know often in these systems, the language of fascia is is is used a lot. Here's another question. Are traditional training methods, like strength training, cardiovascular endurance training, even methods that train power, like agility training, sprint training, plyometric training, are these also potentially affecting fascia?
00:51:25
Speaker
And if they are, how are they different from the fascia-based training systems? So we know that every movement affects fascia. then it follows that, of course, first traditional training methods like strength training, plyos, cardio, these also affect fascia.
00:51:43
Speaker
They just don't claim to. That's not their centerpiece. That's not how they try to differentiate themselves in the marketplace. That's not their stated goal. Their stated goal is to improve strength, to improve cardiorespiratory fitness, to develop power output, to improve athletic performance, right? And those goals are supported by clear mechanisms, predictable adaptations, and measurable outcomes.
00:52:07
Speaker
Another difference between traditional training methods and fascia training methods, I think, comes down to intensity. Fascia-based methods often rely on low load, low impact movement.
00:52:20
Speaker
And there's nothing wrong with that, especially when the goal is sensory input, coordination, recovery, relaxation. But that's probably also why fascia-based methods rarely show measurable, obvious structural changes that have taken place to, say, muscle. You know, because the stimulus that you experience from these training methods isn't strong enough to drive structural changes to any part of the body.
00:52:48
Speaker
Compare that with strength training. So here we we have progressive overload targeting muscles. We see the changes, right? We see increased muscle mass. ah We might be able to measure increased force output. um With regard to tendons, right, we might be able to measure increased jump height because of tendon stiffening, or we might go get our DEXA scan and note, wow, our bones have remodeled and we have higher levels of bone mineral density.
00:53:14
Speaker
Take, for example, cardiovascular training. It improves heart efficiency, capillary density, mitochondrial function. All of this is measurable, both through performance outcomes and lab tests.
00:53:25
Speaker
um So yeah, some of these changes can be seen. Some of these can be measured as performance output improvements. And some of them can be measured in a lab or in a doctor's office.
00:53:36
Speaker
high impact, high velocity, high load work, high intensity training, at least higher than low or progressive overload, progressive training that's done consistently with the ion matching the stimulus to the current level of capacity. These traditional ways of training most certainly affect fascia.
00:53:58
Speaker
They also produce obvious changes to structure, capacity, and performance. These methods, none of them pretend to be targeting fascia though, and they don't need to because the results speak for themselves. The changes that we're trying to make are well understood and the mechanisms behind them are as well.
00:54:19
Speaker
So why call it fascia training? Why are we calling it that? Hopefully we're having, you know, what doesn't feel like I'm just trying to tear everybody down conversation about it, but getting us to think a little bit more critically around what it means to train something. um So, you know, if we can't train fascia, right, why would we call what we're doing fascia training?
00:54:43
Speaker
I think that, yeah, one, there's Definitely like people who believe you can train fascia. So that's that's that. But then I think there's also this thing where fascia sounds just holistic and mystical and personal. And as I said, it's become a stand-in. It's a way of talking about fascia while really talking about something else, ah while talking about other things like complexity without it getting too clinical. For some, it's a narrative that explains what more reductionist models seem to leave out.
00:55:13
Speaker
And that narrative has a lineage, right? We've got Robert Schleip, who helped bring fascia into scientific view. He even suggested that it might contract, um but that idea didn't end up holding up. But his influence definitely has. We've got Tom Myers, who mapped connective tissue into the now famous anatomy trains model, which offers this story of continuity that has resonated far beyond anatomy labs.
00:55:37
Speaker
We've got Gil Headley, who I mentioned, who turned fashion to something kind of soulful. And then as the field veered increasingly more toward metaphor and mysticism, and this blend of anatomy and poetry and intuition and physiology, we had Carla Stecco come around, and she brought some restraint to this.
00:55:55
Speaker
Her work grounded the conversation in anatomical detail, in dissection, in clinical relevance, and offered a counterbalance to claims about hydrating fascia and tensegrity and resonance that were compelling but rarely physiologically explained.
00:56:14
Speaker
In blending metaphor and mechanism, this wave of thinkers and educators made fascia feel profound. It has a story. But story has a cost when it outpaces what we can know through science, what we can test or track.
00:56:33
Speaker
That's when language, I think, begins to blur into branding and when what we're teaching becomes less helpful than what we want it to be.
00:56:46
Speaker
So by the early 2010s, fascia wasn't just a tissue. It was a trend. You weren't stretching, you were lengthening fascial lines. You weren't bouncing, you were hydrating your matrix.
00:57:00
Speaker
Breathing became biotensegrity activation. And just like that, fascia became almost a corrective to everything conventional fitness left out. These systems often position themselves in opposition to strength training, to the gym bros.
00:57:15
Speaker
um They were the softer, subtler, more intuitive ways of moving. And at the same time, they also became harder to verify. Fascia isn't, as we found out, easily measured, especially not in vivo, especially not over time.
00:57:30
Speaker
So you can really claim to train it without being able to prove it or maybe even needing to prove it. And then if we zoom out from there far enough, this conversation about fascia, about a tissue, as I hinted at at the beginning of the show it becomes a conversation about a worldview, about identity, about groups, right?
00:57:49
Speaker
On one side, we have people speaking the language of science, of load, of velocity, of force plates, of capacities. And on the other side, we have people speaking the language of slings and spirals and hydration and flow.
00:58:03
Speaker
One side says, show me the numbers, show me the results. And the other side says, feel into the subtle connections. Both camps have their blind spots.
00:58:16
Speaker
Evidence-informed training can be overly reductionistic, it can be overly clinical, it can be disconnected from the lived experience of pain and embodiment. The way exercise is studied doesn't always have a lot of transfer to how exercise is being engaged in in real life. There's a replication crisis in exercise science where studies fail to replicate frequently. Sarah and I are going to do an episode probably about that.
00:58:41
Speaker
Fascia methods, conversely, often resonate precisely because there isn't this reductionist clinical disconnected feeling, right? Fascia methods resonate, especially with people whose pain, posture, and movement challenges don't seem to line up with conventional explanations.
00:58:58
Speaker
When no one else has answers, the fascia people step in to say, we see you, we believe you. and that kind of validation can feel profound, even if the mechanism behind the method is unclear or not ever explained.
00:59:11
Speaker
So fascia becomes the answer to everything, right? Pain, it's your fascia. Stiffness, it's your fascia. Mood, it's your fascia. Unresolved trauma, fascia.
00:59:23
Speaker
It's catch-all. It's seductive in its simplicity. But I think this is what's really going on, right? When you lie on a therapy ball and feel something change, it's not because your fascia just got hydrated or released.
00:59:37
Speaker
because your nervous system got new input and that input shifted how your brain interprets tension. It shifted motor output, perception. You move differently as a result. Maybe you felt relief. That's very real, but it's not fascial remodeling.
00:59:54
Speaker
It may not be related much at all to your fascia. It's nervous system modulation or adaptation. Same goes for those spiraling flows or isometric holds you're practicing to tap into your fascial lines or enhance your proprioception. What you're really doing is you're moving. You're using your body.
01:00:15
Speaker
You might also be rewiring your threat responses, expanding your movement options, learning movement, right? But you're not isolating your fascia. You're not remodeling it.
01:00:27
Speaker
You're just moving, getting better at moving. Your fascia is coming along for the ride and
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:00:31
Speaker
all of that. All right, to wrap it up, can you train fascia directly? Specifically, can you train in? I'm going to say no.
01:00:42
Speaker
Not with the tools that we have. We can't isolate fascia from everything it surrounds. We can't isolate anything from everything it surrounds, from everything surrounding it either, right? Everything is connected indeed.
01:00:53
Speaker
But we also can't quantify how fascia changes. We don't know the known mechanism by which exercise changes it. We don't know how changes to fascia are distinct from the tissues around it. and if there are distinct ways of training it that are unique to it and not other tissues. None of this is to say that fascia doesn't matter.
01:01:13
Speaker
i think that when fascia people hear that or hear it implied, they take it almost as, you don't matter because fascia is an identity. It's not to say that training isn't beneficial. Any type of training, even the fascia training, right, is super beneficial.
01:01:33
Speaker
All exercise is beneficial. It's just that overstating the benefits of the exercise as being specifically beneficial to fascia, that's what I think is probably not so beneficial because these statements are Often not based on what we know affects change in the body.
01:01:59
Speaker
What evidence shows are the effects of exercise. And about what matters for the things we want, like decreased pain, improved function, improved health and longevity.
01:02:13
Speaker
Whether or not we can target fascia is maybe not even the best question. The best question is why would we want to? Why would we want to when we know that we can train in these specific ways, these different ways, and pretty directly target other systems of our body, other tissues of our body, and see great benefit?
01:02:33
Speaker
I think that these questions matter. These distinctions matter. These distinctions between mechanism and metaphor, for example, or what it means to train a tissue.
01:02:45
Speaker
Or this idea that we can always, when we feel better, know exactly what we targeted in our body on a tissue level to know why we feel better. Like these distinctions matter because I think if we want...
01:03:00
Speaker
As movement teachers, i know many of us are, we want to teach people how to move, how to get stronger, how to feel better with exercise. I think we owe them clear language.
01:03:12
Speaker
And I think metaphors are fine. Metaphors most certainly have a place in healing. Metaphors most certainly have a place in making meaning. Metaphors are fine, but I do think that they should not replace physiology or physiological truth.
01:03:29
Speaker
They should not replace the mechanism. They should not masquerade as the mechanism. Maybe they could complement the mechanism.
01:03:40
Speaker
Does fascia matter? It does. It always has. But that doesn't mean you need to train it. Because you already are. Every time you load your body with resistance training, take a walk, clean around your house,
01:03:58
Speaker
foam roll, roll on balls, go for a run, hike up a mountain, pick up your child. Your fascia is being affected, right?
01:04:11
Speaker
But that doesn't need to explain why you're benefiting from doing all these things or why you do them at all.
01:04:21
Speaker
All right, everybody. This has been another long in-betweeny from yours truly. I'm really pretty incapable of recording a short one. I'm working on it.
01:04:34
Speaker
I'm not really improving it much at all, though. Maybe Sarah should record an episode with the title, Can You Train Laurel to Record a Short In-Betweenie?
01:04:44
Speaker
And then really just unpack all of that. No. Why? Let's look at all the reasons, ah mostly having to do with how my brain works. Okay. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for making it to this point in the episode, if you're still with me.
01:05:01
Speaker
If you are enjoying the content that Sarah and I create for you every week or every two weeks, it helps us out. We really super appreciate it. if you could leave us a review.
01:05:11
Speaker
This particular episode was inspired by an email from someone asking about fascia training, but we have recorded episodes based on reviews and you don't have to leave her review. You could just give us some five stars. you could even just share this episode with a friend. Maybe it's a friend who is fascinated with fascia, Fascianated.
01:05:30
Speaker
One more thing, check out the show notes for our bone density mini course, Barbell 101, a rich educational experience and how to train your fascia and get strong as fuck.
01:05:41
Speaker
Um,
01:05:44
Speaker
All right. I'm going to go ahead and leave it there. Thanks so much, folks. We will see you in two weeks.