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Cyber PRIDE: Supporting the Queer Community in Cybersecurity with Angela and Amber!
105 Plays1 year ago
Angela Brown and Amber DiPippa join the podcast to discuss their scholarship initiative supporting LGBTQ+ individuals pursuing cybersecurity.
George K and George A talk to Ang and Amber about:
📚 The scholarship's origins and its goals for supporting LGBTQ+ cybersecurity students
🌈 The realities and financial hardships unfairly leveled at queer communities
🤝 Practical advice for authentic allyship and community support
🏳️🌈👊⚡️PRIDE Shirts are now on sale in the BKBT Merch Store. All profits from all sales of pride shirts for the entire month of June will be donated to Out in Tech and Ang and Amber's scholarship fund. Shop today at www.bkbtpodcast.shop!
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Transcript
The Importance of Allyship
00:00:00
Speaker
Like, see something, say something. That's allyship. Talk about people when they're not in the room in a positive way. You know, elevate them. Look for the weirdos. Look for the people that are disenfranchised. Look for people that are different than what you look like and sound like and bring them to the pizza party. That's it.
Podcast Introduction: Human Side of Cybersecurity
00:00:28
Speaker
Yo, yo, yo, it's the show. This is Bare Knuckles and Brass Tax, the cybersecurity podcast that tackles the messy human side of the industry, everything from trust to career development to allyship and everything in between. I'm George Kay with the vendor side. And I'm George A, Chief Information Security Officer. And today, our guests are Angela Brown and Amber Depippa.
00:00:53
Speaker
And they are on to tell us about a scholarship that they have started to support education for LGBTQ plus individuals pursuing cybersecurity as a career.
LGBTQ+ Scholarships in Cybersecurity
00:01:06
Speaker
Yeah, it wasn't just about the scholarship that I did talk about that. It was also talking about what it was like to be a member of the LGBTQ plus and queer community in our industry. What it's like to kind of have to go through life where, you know, let's say you're coming out of the closet mid-career.
00:01:24
Speaker
What does that imply for your career? And a lot of real world advice and tips. So I think going into Pride Month, it's really important that we start having real conversations about authentically helping one another out. And I think this show really put a good foot forward for that.
00:01:41
Speaker
Yes, and as a reminder to listeners, all Pride merch being sold in the Bare Knuckles and Brass Tax store. All profits for all sales during the month of June are going to these organizations. We have two shirts. One is our iconic fist and bolt logo with a rainbow. All profits will go to out in tech. And then we have another shirt that says, don't let anyone dull your sparkle. And that one comes
00:02:08
Speaker
from my daughter's own handwriting and money from that will go to support this scholarship started in the name of a departed friend of both Ang and Amber.
Origins of the Scholarship in Memory of Katherine
00:02:19
Speaker
So with that said, fair warning. There is a quick mention of suicide in this episode, but the rest of the episode is centered on what are we doing to help the communities and what are ways that we can support and show allyship.
00:02:36
Speaker
Angie and Amber, welcome to Bare Knuckles and Brass Tax. Hello, thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. Yeah, so you are here because you started a scholarship, which we're going to talk about. But as part of Pride Month in the Bare Knuckles and Brass Tax store, we are selling t-shirts and all profits from all sales this month are going to organizations like yours. So let us start with some context setting.
00:03:05
Speaker
Tell us about the scholarship. Let's start with what is it for, who is it for, and then we'll go into the origins. Yeah. Hey, first of all, George, thank you guys so much, both Georges, for what you're doing. This really is going to make some significant impacts for people. So my wife, Amber, and I started a scholarship in honor of a friend of ours. Her name was Catherine.
00:03:32
Speaker
And Catherine was a DFIR analyst, so she was in cyber. And unfortunately, a couple years ago, I think we're going on the third year, she hit a particularly rough patch and committed suicide.
00:03:49
Speaker
And so, you know, we hit the one-year anniversary and my wife and I both, you know, we just knew that we had to make that day something different. And so we thought, well, what better way to do it than to honor her legacy and then also provide an opportunity for people who were, you know, trying to come into cybersecurity, something arguably that she really, really enjoyed and loved and give people an opportunity to come in and have a little bit of
00:04:18
Speaker
the financial burden taken off of their backs. She had gone. She was a mechanical engineer and then pivoted into cybersecurity after that and was really big on education. And so I think she would be like partially amused and tickled that we're doing something like this. So I think she'd be proud. That is that is incredible. And the scholarship, as I understand, supports both undergraduate and graduate studies, is that correct?
00:04:47
Speaker
Yes. Yep. And this year we're actually focusing on LGBTQIA individuals. And so either undergraduate or graduate, it is college specific because it's going through bold.org. That's like bold as in you bold a font, right? And so you can apply for that. We actually, we were able to raise $2,000 and then
00:05:11
Speaker
received a really awesome donation of another $2,000. We're going to be able to give away four $1,000 scholarships already this year. We're stoked. Specifically, we're really looking for people who have
00:05:27
Speaker
either experienced some type of homelessness or who maybe had been excommunicated from their families and are working and having to put themselves through school. But hey, me to you, if someone rolls through with a great resume and a great kind of answer to the question that we have, it's kind of fair game for anyone that fits kind of those really loose contexts.
00:05:53
Speaker
Nice.
Angela's Career Path and Authenticity Challenges
00:05:54
Speaker
All right. That's some great background. I will kick it over to the CISO and we'll, uh, we'll keep exploring. All right. Uh, first of all, guys, I really, um, I think the work you guys are doing is quite noble and beautiful. Um, and then Angela, I've you, at least for me, like I know you're much closer with, uh, George Kay, but, um, uh, I have seen you around kind of the, our periphery for,
00:06:21
Speaker
I think since we started the show, you have been a supporter since we started the show. So I really appreciate actually getting to sit down and talk to you.
00:06:34
Speaker
It's beautiful kind of like what you're doing in terms of community because I think you're one of the few folks who have legitimately made it as a practitioner. You've made it as someone who's earned their street cred, you know, and you do real operational work.
00:06:53
Speaker
And I think for folks in the community, they need to see someone like you. They need to see someone like you existing and being successful. They need to see someone like you being proud of being yourself. You're not hiding it. You're who you are. And I think there's a great beauty in that as well. And I kind of want to know, to start,
00:07:16
Speaker
You're a very strong person. It's clear that you are very much assured in yourself and who you are. Have there been points in your career where you've doubted that or you've had to hide that or felt like you need to hide who you are for the sake of your own success? And how did you deal with that?
00:07:34
Speaker
You know, I think personally, I've been really fortunate. Amber actually might have a better story even than I do on that because we do live in Texas. So we're, you could technically be fired for being gay. For me, I mean, I've been visibly, obviously gay since I was a senior in high school, since about 17 or 18 years old. And so I've faced
00:08:00
Speaker
I faced some discrimination because of that, but really in the workplace, I was really careful.
00:08:08
Speaker
and worked at Starbucks for five years, moved into Apple. I've tried to base my career around companies and organizations that show that they are an ally to the community as well. Now, that being said, it is tough being a female in any technical space. Thank you so much for the kind words. I feel like I try every day to put my money where my mouth is.
00:08:36
Speaker
and show that I'm technical. As organized as I am, I'm technical. And so that really means a lot, George. I appreciate that a lot. But Amber's got a little bit different of an experience than I do. Yeah, so my first professional job, we'll say that, my first professional job. I did not feel like I could be truly my authentic self at that job for various reasons. But I think one of the things we don't talk about as much is that when you
00:09:06
Speaker
when you are more feminine presenting, there's a lot of assumptions made. So when people introduce themselves to me or I'm getting to know co-workers, it's like, oh, what does your husband do? Oh, are you married? What's his name? How do you guys have kids? Things like that. And you always have that moment where you're like, well,
00:09:27
Speaker
I correct them. I'm basically outing myself, right? How comfortable do I feel in that moment? And I've definitely had situations where I did not feel comfortable. And I worked there for a long time and I didn't ever talk about my personal life. And it was really hard and I was nervous it would impact my career.
00:09:47
Speaker
So I have to ask, though, I mean, have you, when facing that situation, right, have you had to kind of give a sort of lie, like, where you where you say like, oh, like, no, I have you ever denied that you're married, basically, like, no, I'm actually single or you've had to because of that anxiety. Like, I I could tell you within our space,
00:10:15
Speaker
Like, as an ethnic Palestinian, particularly in these times, and with a lot of the folks that we sometimes have to deal with, it's just easier that I pray to God it never comes up, to be honest with you. For a lot of reasons I don't need to get into. But like, do you ever have to experience that?
00:10:35
Speaker
I think I've had those moments where I definitely could. Thankfully, I've never had to lie or felt like I needed to lie. I've always tried to kind of skirt the conversation a little bit. This was back then, right? Not today by any means. But I would just say something like, oh, my spouse, or oh, you know, I would just try and keep it pretty neutral or try and get past the conversation as quickly as possible.
00:11:00
Speaker
or just refer to we a lot. Like, oh, we moved here. Oh, we're doing this, you know, and just try to avoid, you know, pronouns and things like that. I thankfully have not had to do that in probably 10 years and I'm very grateful for that. But yeah, actually her job just selected her to kind of be one of the front runners on a employee resource group, LGBT.
00:11:26
Speaker
employee resource group, which is super cool. Yeah, we're launching the LGBTQ ERG group at my company next month. And not only that, we're represented on a national scale with a larger organization. And so I'm kind of not only the face of it internally now, ironically, I'm also going to be the face of our company on an LGBT national level, which is very cool.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, so I want to pull on one of the threads because before we started recording, we were talking about how some of the things that may seem obvious to us may not be obvious to listeners.
Financial Challenges for LGBTQ Cybersecurity Students
00:12:05
Speaker
So I want you to elaborate a little bit on
00:12:10
Speaker
why LGBTQIA plus people pursuing cybersecurity degrees may be in need of financial assistance for their education. You had said something as it relates to being quote unquote excommunicated from your family. I think that that feels like it should be in the past, but is a very, very much a present reality.
00:12:36
Speaker
No, yeah, it's present. And we still know people to this day, you know, that, that cannot, quote unquote, cannot go home, right? Or who have had to make a chosen family. And, you know, both of our families are
00:12:53
Speaker
very supportive, have come to be very supportive. But I won't lie, Amber and I have definitely created our own chosen family as well. Because I think we just strive to be around people that have experienced what we've experienced and had similar kind of
00:13:17
Speaker
hardships in their lives, right? So it's still very much a common occurrence that people can be kicked out of home even before they're 18, especially individuals that are trans. And so for us, just being able to create some type of fund
00:13:37
Speaker
to help people pursue their dreams, specifically in cyber because of Catherine's experience with the community. That was really important to us. We can't fix a lot of the things that are going on, but I'm hoping that maybe some of these students that have chosen cheaper universities like Western Governors or something like that, that they can really make a dent with a scholarship.
00:14:03
Speaker
And we're just one of many, right? There are a lot of scholarships out there. I would encourage anyone that's listening to this to go on bold.org if you're a student and check it out. Yeah, I didn't even know about that organization until you started formulating and I was like, well, this is an incredible resource. And they don't take any money.
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's like tax deductible. I think they they do stuff with employee match as well. And they don't take any money. They're completely a nonprofit. That's brilliant. All right. Well, we will take a short break and then we will be back with some brass tax flavored questions.
00:14:47
Speaker
Hey listeners, Pride Month is here and new pride t-shirts are in the Bare Knuckles and Brass Tax store and we are raising money for community organizations. All profits from all sales of all pride t-shirts will be donated to Out in Tech and a scholarship for LGBTQ plus students pursuing cybersecurity education.
00:15:09
Speaker
Again, all profits from all pride merch sales for the entire month of June will be donated. Get yours today. Now back to our interview.
Identity Impact on LGBTQ Careers and Community Support
00:15:25
Speaker
Let's ask this then. Let's say there's a difference between. And again, I say this as like a cisgender, like straight person.
00:15:37
Speaker
We'll call it on my own personal curiosity too, but for the sake of our listeners as well within your community, let's say for folks who are
00:15:48
Speaker
perhaps questioning where they're at in life, right? Because I know actually a fairly substantial number of people, and I'm up here in Canada, and our perspective on the LGBTQ plus community is a little bit more progressive, maybe than what you guys would probably deal with. And we get a lot of folks who are actually, they get married, they have kids, they have full families,
00:16:16
Speaker
And then they discover later on in life, like in their forties, that is not actually what they're about. And they have career implications that go with that. Like I know the one person, his mother was a high school vice principal and she was well into her career and she
00:16:39
Speaker
kind of switch teams, you know, and it's it's great. She has a very loving home and dude has two moms and they're super cool and still talks to his dad and stuff. But I'm just wondering for folks out there who, you know, are in that kind of situation and they've had their their families established and they have their established friend groups.
00:17:02
Speaker
How do you go about that or how can you go about that sort of change without it creating necessarily a negative impact on your career? Oh man, that's a great question. That's a good question.
00:17:18
Speaker
You know, I think it comes back to, I think, it comes back to community. If you find yourself in that situation and certainly I know a fair amount of people that are trans and are going through something like that, I would start by just checking out your community first.
00:17:37
Speaker
and making sure that you're in a safe space. If you're surrounded by people that you already know are not going to be accepting, if you're at a company that you know is not going to be accepting, that's a good time to take pause and start kind of putting together that to-do list, right? Because I would say that
00:17:57
Speaker
One of the big things that we do see in the queer community is homelessness. There's even something called the gay delay for young people who have had to go work and then go back to school in their 30s or a little bit older. Take stock of what you've got going on right now and just make sure that you've got a
00:18:19
Speaker
a good nest built. There are a lot of online communities. I actually run one called the Red Society Club, which George is a member of, George K is. There are a lot of communities out there that are very welcoming for queer people or built specifically for queer people that you can find and join up. So I think personally, it starts with community. If you're in a spot where
00:18:45
Speaker
you don't have the base foundation of support, it's going to be a lot harder. I was fortunate when I was coming out as a young person to have friends that when I told them, they were like, yeah, we know. That was always something you were. And even my father was that way. He was like, yeah, well, it's Tuesday. What else is new?
00:19:12
Speaker
So that's that's where I would start with. I don't know, Amber, do you have a different idea about that? Yeah, no, but a different idea. But I definitely agree on the community piece. I think community in your personal life is important, especially if you're going through a major change, you need community, right? And how in terms of how to not allow that big change to affect your career, I think sometimes it's
00:19:36
Speaker
okay if it does because if you find yourself at an organization that's not in alignment with your values and doesn't treat you as the authentic person that you are, why would you continue working there? It may be time to start looking for your next.
00:19:53
Speaker
And we all know that growth in your career is not linear all the time. And that might mean going to a different type of company or going into a different type of role or taking a step back. And it's okay because at the end you have a community that supports you and you're living your authentic self and you're still going to be successful in your career. It might just look different than what you thought it was originally going to look like.
00:20:19
Speaker
Yeah, we don't live in a household where we believe in failure. It's just a different lesson. It's always a different lesson. And George K knows this about me. I love the Stoics. And so I think a lot of it is perspective. If something negative happens in your career, is that permanently bad? Doesn't have to be. And that's something that I kind of have taken for a long time.
00:20:47
Speaker
Shout out to Ryan Halliday. I'm a big fan of Snokes too.
00:20:50
Speaker
Yeah. So, uh, yeah, behind the scenes, uh, when I was in Austin for a conference, I specifically made the trip out to Bastrop, Texas to go to his store. Oh, no way. Yeah. Cause aunt Ann's knows that I'm such a fan as well. I felt like going to Mecca and he was there and I almost fan boy, but he was like doing inventory shit. And I was like, don't bother that dude. Oh, he actually runs. Yeah.
00:21:18
Speaker
Yeah, I went there and grabbed a Georgia book and I was, they had signed copies and I was like, Oh, how much for the signed copies? And they were like, we don't charge anymore for a signed book. Like we said the same price. And I was like, that's so cool.
00:21:35
Speaker
So you brought up careers twice in there and I really want to pick at that and I'm going to pick at your career and and then I'm going to ask your wife about it because that's how we roll on this
Angela's Career Pivot and Embracing Change
00:21:44
Speaker
podcast. Just kind of surprise. So I know personally that you started in one path and then you took a very intentional pivot. Yes. Just want to give you some space to talk about that, because as Amber said,
00:22:00
Speaker
We say path, we say career journey, but it's very much like the family circus kind of loops back on itself. Sometimes I think people are afraid to take a quote unquote step back, but you know, anyway, I want to give you some space to talk about that.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I have a weird career. I started off, um, my first job was on a sailboat at 15. Um, I sailed a black boat with red sails at 55 foot schooner and it's just kind of gone uphill from there. Um, so I've done everything from barista work to retail, the food service, um, but with the cyber specifically, um, I, I, uh,
00:22:40
Speaker
I had a type of brain surgery, a cranial decompression surgery back in 2015. And in the year after that, like as the pain subsided from what I was used to, I was having daily migraines, I just knew I had to go back to school. So I went back to school, did cyber, and then through an internship, I kind of landed in the world of defer.
00:23:05
Speaker
I think I thrived there until I didn't. I would probably politely call it like a crash and burn moment where I'd been going so hard in 60, 70 hours a week, even 80 hours sometimes during the holidays, and decided that it was time to do something else. I stopped.
00:23:27
Speaker
tried to start a company with some friends. That was what was the end of 2022 when things got real weird. Was that right? Something like that. Yeah. I mean, a friend of mine was talking about losing clients and stuff. And so I said, you know what? I'm just going to take a break.
00:23:44
Speaker
took a took a break didn't work for three months and then was offered a help desk position at TCM security and just did like contract 20 bucks an hour work for a little bit until they brought me on to the pen test team so now I'm a pen tester
00:24:00
Speaker
rather good at externals, if I do say so myself getting good at it. Okay, wait, wait, you are you are being humble because I remember, I mean, you put yourself through the gauntlet of like learning this stuff. And I remember you saying like, I'm sort of flirting with pen testing. And I think I just need to finally lean in. Yeah, to this and and just
00:24:21
Speaker
do it. So there's a lot of hours that you didn't account for there in terms of like, just the study and all of this, which is an investment. But I, I think I, you know, I can feel like, if I'm intentionally restarting, am I going backwards? You know, I get that.
00:24:38
Speaker
I helped desk never felt backwards, but maybe that's because I believe in what TCM security does so much that it was kind of an honor to be on at the company at all. Right. And I knew that I would have access to some really great minds.
00:24:59
Speaker
And so it was a lot of hours. I mean, I'm born in bread Texan. So like, I'm like, bring yourself up by your bootstraps person, right? And Amber knows this, this is true. And so there were, I mean, and I still put a lot of hours into the craft. And I know that I'll never be the best hacker in the world because I'm too interested in too many things, but I can outwork
00:25:27
Speaker
a lot of people that I know. I don't I do not mind putting the time in to invest in myself. And also, like, let's again, let's just track this. Yeah, you go.
00:25:39
Speaker
helpdesk up to offensive engineer and you invented a new course. Yeah, new certification. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. I mean, it was one of the coolest things I think I've done in my career so far. So I have a certification with TCM called the PJOR
00:26:01
Speaker
practical junior OSINT researcher, something I'm super proud of and it's getting a lot of good feedback. Most importantly, people say it's fun, which is really what I was going for there. Awesome. Yeah, I'm super proud of that. Me to you guys, privacy for me is one of my specialty loves. I think teaching people how to do OSINT is teaching people how to
00:26:27
Speaker
take hold of their own privacy amongst other things. And so it really was an honor to do this certification.
00:26:34
Speaker
Nice. So now I get to ask your wife to weigh in on your career path. So as a HR professional to our listeners who may be hearing the non-conventional path, I just want, it's very rare that our audience is going to get to hear from HR.
Catherine's Influence and Personal Values
00:26:53
Speaker
So would love to hear kind of your advice, take interpretation of like what it takes to make these pivots. Because as you mentioned,
00:27:04
Speaker
the inspiration for this scholarship, she made a pivot, right? And just anyway, give you a space to talk about that.
00:27:12
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. So Catherine, she was a lifelong learner, like we talked about, and she was so many things. She was more than just, you know, a cybersecurity professional. She was a mechanical engineer. She had aspirations to be an architect at one point. She was so many things outside of that. And I think that part of your career path is finding out
00:27:37
Speaker
who you are as a person and what do you do best and what do you get enjoyment out of and leaning into that, right? And that might mean you pivot your career and it's okay. I think for Ann specifically looking at her career, I'm incredibly proud because she has this knack for knowing when she's passionate about something or when it's time to turn a corner or when it's time to lean into something different and she is not scared to do it. She knows it's just, let's go, it's time, you know?
00:28:07
Speaker
And every time she finds something that she's so excited about, I have never seen her have as much fun as I did when she was creating that certification. She had so much fun making it. And even when she decided to
00:28:25
Speaker
lean into pen testing. It was something new and exciting. So I think from, you know, as her wife, I'm just proud that she's really leaned in and listened to herself because she knows who she is. And I think that's part of it is knowing who you are, knowing who your authentic self is,
00:28:45
Speaker
knowing what you get enjoyment out of and finding ways to do that in your day-to-day life. And if that makes you, you know, a livable wage and creates a good, you know, stable life for yourself, all the better, right? It's one of the things that I saw Catherine really struggle with. I think we both saw her try to figure out exactly how she was going to give some positivity to this world.
00:29:14
Speaker
I think looking back, especially on the months and weeks before she made the decision to do what she did, there was a lot of evidence there that she just really didn't feel that she was a positive person in this world. She really didn't know what she was contributing. She didn't know how to give back in a way that she felt was meaningful. There are a lot of bits of evidence that lead me to think that there
00:29:44
Speaker
aside from some mental health issues that she just did not track down, that fundamentally she just didn't know what she was about or where she was trying to go next. And so I think that that's important for us. I think hard work and sitting down and giving yourself space to think about who you are and what your values are and where you want to go with this life. Those things are really important.
00:30:11
Speaker
Absolutely. Be intentional. Not just with your career, with your hobbies, with your community, with who you love. Your community. Yeah. Just be intentional.
Actionable Allyship and Inclusion
00:30:21
Speaker
So I have one final question for you guys and I want you guys to make it real quick, real high level for everyone listening, our whole audience. What makes a good ally and how can we be one? Say something. Like see something, say something.
00:30:37
Speaker
That's allyship. Talk about people when they're not in the room in a positive way. Elevate them. Look for the weirdos. Look for the people that are disenfranchised. Look for people that are different than what you look like and sound like and bring them to the pizza party. That's it.
00:30:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's the bring. George and I are really allergic to admiring problems. I mean, we'll start on something on our WhatsApp thread, but then it always ends with like, but what if we did, because just action, I can't just talk about shit and not do anything. It drives me up the wall. I mean, to be fair, I might run off with a half-baked idea.
00:31:24
Speaker
Like I might text you in the late hours and be like, What if I made a t shirt that went to the scholarship? I feel like we have to do stuff. I think it's the doing right? Listen, I also have ADHD. So you're welcome to do that anytime you want. Yeah, no, I think it's I think it's the action of like, take action. Be again, be intentional. You know,
00:31:51
Speaker
There are a lot of there are a lot of ways to show that you're an ally. Doing this is an incredible way to show that you're an ally because you stepped up and you said, we're going to give this money and then we're going to have you on the podcast to talk about it. And that's what being an ally is. It's giving space and making room. Absolutely. Well, Angie and Amber, thank you for taking the time out of your afternoon to join us at the end of the week.
00:32:21
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you. This is great. Yeah. All right. We will hopefully talk to you again real soon. Thanks, guys. Thank you.
George on Software Demos: Preparation and Client Needs
00:32:36
Speaker
This is the teardown, the segment in our show where we deal with, I don't know, or we call it outreach therapy, the stuff that happens to us from business development, end of the stick, and how do we cope with it? Last week, George, you talked about a terrible demo experience. Surprising, given that it came from an extremely large shop, but they just called it in, shat the bed, you're like, I'm out and I'm telling all my friends.
00:33:04
Speaker
So it should be my episode this week, but as I understand it, you have a good demo experience to share.
00:33:12
Speaker
Yeah, so same POC process. Last week, we talked about a good pile of dog shit that was served in cat shit for us. And that sucked. That was a good use of our time. This week, we had, oh my god, if you want to talk about the complete opposite, we had a banger of a demo. And these guys, they're in the next gen steam space.
00:33:39
Speaker
They're absolutely awesome. They have everything that you can imagine. And for God's sakes, for once, for once, and we haven't done the test yet, but for once, they showed us actual innovation. They showed NLP utilization and threat modeling. They actually use threat modeling in their scene. Holy shit. It's not just an app sec.
00:34:01
Speaker
And the fact is, they had a built-in SOAR in their platform. They had a great utilization for Data Lake. They had all the checks in the box needed for a next-generation provider, for next-generation technology. And on a pure demo alone,
00:34:23
Speaker
whether or not we end up going to buy these guys, I am happy to recommend them to anyone. And I gotta be honest with you, as a CISO, when you get a good demo, even if you can't go with these guys, even if you can't purchase them, you will keep them in mind and you will suggest them to all your CISO and buy your friends, which I've done. I've brought them up in multiple conversations since then with other executives.
00:34:52
Speaker
And I think, again, it's when you show up to a demo, when you've clearly practiced what you're going to present, when you've listened to your prospect and actually looked at, hey, what's the use cases that you guys need to address? And then you address them. Holy shit. What a good time for everyone, you know? So very good demo for these guys. And again, this is this is the game sometimes when you're dealing with software sales and and you're on the buyer side is
00:35:21
Speaker
You're going to deal with a lot of bullshit. You're going to deal with a lot of waste of your time. But then when you get those nugs of gold, when you find that the gold piece is in your pan, it's really the stuff that gets you very exciting and I'm very happy to have sat in on a good demo for once.
00:35:44
Speaker
And that wraps up another episode of Bare Knuckles and Brass Tax. If you liked this episode, please consider leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It helps others find us. New episodes drop every Monday. If you're already subscribed, thank you for your support and your swagger.
00:36:02
Speaker
If you're not, what are you waiting for? Go to wherever you get your podcasts and smash subscribe for weekly doses of humanity and cyber, insights, and laughs. We'll catch you next week, but until then, stay real.