Hannah Storey, Advocacy and Policy Advisor at Amnesty International [https://www.amnesty.org], joins the show to talk about her new brief that reframes Big Tech monopolies as a human rights crisis, not just a market competition problem.

This isn't about consumer choice or antitrust law. It's about how concentrated market power violates fundamental rights—freedom of expression, privacy, and the right to hold views without interference or manipulation.

Can you make a human rights case against Big Tech? Why civil society needed to stop asking these companies to fix themselves and start demanding structural change. What happens when regulation alone won't work because the companies have massive influence over the regulators?

Is Big Tech actually innovating anymore? Or are they just buying up competition and locking down alternatives? Does scale drive progress, or does it strangle it?

What would real accountability look like? Should companies be required to embed human rights due diligence into product development from the beginning?

Are we making the same mistakes with AI? Why is generative AI rolling forward without anyone asking about water usage for data centers, labor exploitation of data labelers, or discriminatory outcomes?

The goal isn't tweaking the current system—it's building a more diverse internet with actual options and less control by fewer companies.

If you've been tracking Big Tech issues in silos—privacy here, misinformation there, market dominance over here—this episode is an attempt to bring those conversations together in one framework.

Mentioned:

Read more about the Amnesty International report and download the full report here: “Breaking Up with Big Tech: a Human Rights-Based Argument for Tackling Big Tech’s Market Power” [https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/pol30/0226/2025/en/]

Speech AI model helps preserve indigenous languages [https://it-online.co.za/2024/01/22/speech-ai-model-helps-preserve-indigenous-languages]

Empire of AI, [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/743569/empire-of-ai-by-karen-hao/] by Karen Hao

Cory Doctorow’s new book, "Enshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What To Do About It" [https://www.versobooks.com/products/3341-enshittification]

Confronting Big Tech’s Abuses as a Question of Human Rights 

RE-ISSUE: This recording corrects for an audio overlap problem in the previous version of this interview at the 28:00 mark.

Zach Lewis, CIO/CISO at University of Health Sciences and Pharmacy in St. Louis, joins the show to talk about his experience with a ransomware attack by the LockBit group.

Zach takes us beyond the technical recovery into territory most people don't talk about: the gut-punch moment of finding the ransom note and the months of running on pure adrenaline while keeping his team from cracking under pressure.

Key takeaways from our conversation:

The human toll matters. When hospital systems go down, it's not just inconvenient. People can't get medications, emergency rooms have to reroute patients, and lives are at stake. This is the cyber war nobody wants to acknowledge.

Attribution is nearly impossible. Even when you know who attacked you, there's rarely closure for victims.

Leading through crisis. Zach shares how he kept his team together during months of remediation by staying calm on the outside, and knowing which team members could handle the pressure and which ones needed to stick to routine work. Sometimes the best leadership is just being that steady presence when everything else is chaos.

If you want to understand what really happens when ransomware strikes, this episode is required listening.

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

Zach's book "Locked Up" drops January 6th and is available for pre-order now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1394357044

Mentioned:

Cyber Attack Suspected in German Woman’s Death [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/world/europe/cyber-attack-germany-ransomeware-death.html?unlocked_article_code=1.uU8.Cf4H.LEjQ0lmlN_Wn&smid=url-share]

Chase Cunningham and cyber war [https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2025/10/16/midnight-in-the-war-room-and-the-unsung-heroes-of-cybersecurity/]

What a Ransomware Attack on a Hospital Really Mean (Audio Issue Fixed)

Clinical psychologist, Dr. Sarah Adler, joins the show this week to talk about why “AI Therapy” doesn’t exist, but is bullish on what AI can help therapists achieve.

Dr. Adler is a clinical psychologist and CEO of Wave [https://www.wavelife.io/]. She's building AI tools for mental healthcare, which makes her position clear—what's being sold as "AI therapy" right now is dangerous.

Chatbots are optimized to keep conversations going. Therapy is designed to build skills within bounded timeframes. Engagement is not therapy. Instead, Dr. Adler sees AI as a powerful recommendation engine and measurement tool, not as a therapist.

George K and George A talk to Dr. Adler about what Ethical AI looks like, the model architecture for personalized care, who bears responsibility and liability, and more.

The goal isn't replacing human therapists. It's precision routing—matching people to the right care pathway at the right time. But proving this works requires years of rigorous study. Controlled trials, multiple populations, long-term tracking. That research hasn't been done.

Dr. Adler also provides considerations and litmus tests you can use to discern snake oil from real care.

Mental healthcare needs innovation. But you cannot move fast and break things when it comes to human lives.

Mentioned:

A Theory of Zoom Fatigue [https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/p/a-theory-of-zoom-fatigue]

Kashmir Hill’s detailed reporting on Adam Raine’s death and the part played by ChatGPT  [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/technology/chatgpt-openai-suicide.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nU8.DE_a.Ur81NxfjZuNn&smid=url-share]

(Warning: detailed discussion of suicide)

Colorado parents sue Character AI over daughter's suicide [https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/lawsuit-characterai-chatbot-colorado-suicide/]

Sewell Setzer's parents sue Character AI [https://apnews.com/article/chatbot-ai-lawsuit-suicide-teen-artificial-intelligence-9d48adc572100822fdbc3c90d1456bd0]

Deloitte to pay money back after caught using AI in $440,000 report [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/oct/06/deloitte-to-pay-money-back-to-albanese-government-after-using-ai-in-440000-report]

Can Ethical AI Democratize Therapy and Higher Quality Care?

This week George K and George A switch formats to tackle the AI revolution's messiest questions—from autonomous coding agents to digital actresses and deepfake scams.

The hosts examine what happens when innovation moves faster than ethics. When Claude Sonnet 4.5 promises 30 hours of autonomous coding, what's the real trade-off between productivity gains and security fundamentals? When talent agencies want to represent AI-generated actresses, are we witnessing the death of human performance art or just another moral panic? And when Brazilian scammers can steal millions in $19 increments using celebrity deepfakes, who bears responsibility—the platforms, the regulators, or the users?

They explore the uncomfortable economics behind AI video generation, where companies promised to cure cancer but instead delivered infinite dopamine-mining slop. The conversation digs into data center energy consumption, the exploitation of human attention, and why your grandmother clicking Facebook ads might represent democracy's newest vulnerability.

George A brings a practitioner's lens to AI governance, arguing for education from elementary school up, metadata standards for content authenticity, and balanced regulation that protects innovation without enabling exploitation. George K challenges the fundamental premise: if supercomputers are being pointed at our dopamine receptors just to sell more ads, what happened to building technology that actually improves human life?

Most importantly, they ask: Are we building applications that create a better future, or are we just doubling down on the attention economy?

News examined:

 * Anthropic releases Claude Sonnet 4.5 in latest bid for AI agents [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/787524/anthropic-releases-claude-sonnet-4-5-in-latest-bid-for-ai-agents-and-coding-supremacy]
 * Emily Blunt among Hollywood stars outraged over 'AI actor' Tilly Norwood [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c99glvn5870o]
 * AI: Meta, Google & OpenAI lean into AI Generated Social Videos [https://michaelparekh.substack.com/p/ai-meta-google-and-openai-lean-into]
 * Brazilian scammers, raking in millions, used Gisele Bundchen deepfakes on Instagram ads
   [https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazilian-scammers-raking-millions-used-gisele-bundchen-deepfakes-instagram-ads-2025-10-03/]

So, Are We Gonna Cure Cancer or Just Double Down on Mining Attention?

The lads are traveling this week, so we're revisiting their interview with Savannah Sly, dominatrix and sex worker rights advocate. She joined the show to talk about privacy, power, and the nuances of human intimacy as generative AI takes hold.

George K and George A talk to Savannah about:

 * The current state of privacy for vulnerable communities and the real-world operational security challenges they face
 * Practical steps individuals can take to protect their digital identities when dating online
 * The intersection of AI, deepfakes, and the weaponization of intimate content
 * The zeitgeist and cultural headwinds for sex workers today

BEST OF: Sex & Tech: Privacy, Power, and Human Intimacy in an AI Future

This week George K and George A switch formats to consider the deeper questions behind recent tech headlines.

The hosts dig into the philosophical tensions driving today's biggest tech stories. When does technological dependency become too dangerous to ignore? How do we distinguish between genuine innovation and elaborate pump-and-dump schemes dressed up as progress? What are the real costs when entire economies become intertwined with a handful of companies?

They explore whether we're witnessing the early stages of a historic bubble or if we're already past the point of no return. The conversation touches on the ethics of deploying untested technology on vulnerable populations, the normalization of surveillance capitalism, and why regulatory capture might be democracy's biggest threat.

Most importantly, they ask the question that should keep every technologist awake at night: Are we building the future we actually want to live in, or are we just building the future that's most profitable for a few?

The news examined:

 * Details emerge on the US’ TikTok deal with China  [https://www.wsj.com/tech/details-emerge-on-u-s-china-tiktok-deal-594e009f?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink]
 * Things just got worse for Nvidia in China [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqxz29pe1v0o]
 * To protect underage users, ChatGPT may ask for ID [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/sep/17/chatgpt-developing-age-verification-system-to-identify-under-18-users-after-teen-death]
 * Meta’s smart glasses get smarter [https://www.readthepeak.com/stories/09-25-meta-s-smart-glasses-get-smarter]

Mentioned in the discussion:

 * MIT report: The GenAI Divide STATE OF AI IN BUSINESS 2025 [https://mlq.ai/media/quarterly_decks/v0.1_State_of_AI_in_Business_2025_Report.pdf]
 * Ed Zitron’s podcast, Better Offline, and newsletter analysis of “Magnificent Seven” companies [https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-haters-gui/#the-magnificent-7s-ai-story-is-flawed-with-560-billion-of-capex-between-2024-and-2025-leading-to-35-billion-of-revenue-and-no-profit]
 * Kashmir Hill’s detailed reporting on Adam Raine’s death and the part played by ChatGPT [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/technology/chatgpt-openai-suicide.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nU8.DE_a.Ur81NxfjZuNn&smid=url-share](Warning: detailed discussion of suicide)
 * Meta’s leaked policy on allowing chatbots to engage in “sensual” chats with children [https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/meta-ai-chatbot-guidelines]

Are We Building a Star Trek Future or One that Looks Like Minority Report? 

Phil Dursey joined the show this week to cut through the hype and talked through what red teaming for AI means in mindset and practice.

The conversation reveals a fundamental problem: organizations are rushing to implement AI without understanding their own workflows. Executives are buying "the thing with the AI" expecting magic efficiency gains, but they've never mapped out basic business processes. You can't automate what you don't understand.

Phil's approach starts with the right question: "Are we using the right tool for the use case?"

We also talked about education and kids. Find out why Phil argues philosophy and humanities give you the biggest advantage when working with AI systems. It’s what he looks for in hiring, too. The ability to formulate good questions, understand context, and think clearly matters more than technical prowess.

And finally we touch on the job market. We're heading toward AI capabilities that will exceed human professionals in specific domains. The displacement won't be overnight, but it's coming.

If you're implementing AI in your organization, this episode should make you pause and ask harder questions. The technology is powerful, but power without thoughtful application is just expensive chaos.

Mentioned:

 * Phil Dursey's guide, Red Teaming AI [https://nostarch.com/red-teaming-AI]
   
 * Hard Fork podcast segment on a student's AI workflow [https://youtu.be/X-KzyPRdcmc?feature=shared&t=3414]

Thinking Like an Adversary, and How to Prepare for AI in Work and Life

A stalkerware economy is thriving on TikTok, and it's generating hundreds of thousands in sales. Journalist Rosie Thomas from 404 Media joins the show this week discuss her investigation into GPS trackers being sold as relationship surveillance tools directly through TikTok Shop. This isn't some dark web operation - it's happening on one of the world's most popular social platforms.

The findings are disturbing. Content targets people with taglines like "Is she really going out with friends?" are generating hundreds of thousands in sales. Algorithms don't just show you this content - they amplify it the moment you engage.

The digital economy we all live in has normalized surveillance to the point where stalking your partner is being marketed as a reasonable relationship tool. The technology isn't new, but the accessibility and algorithmic amplification absolutely is.

This conversation touches on everything from the failure of tech companies to consider abuse cases in product design, to how parasocial relationships are replacing actual community bonds, to the legal gaps that leave victims with limited recourse.

If you work in tech, this episode should make you uncomfortable. As a citizen, it should terrify you. It's a reminder that our biggest threats often come from the normalization of our culture's worst tendencies.

Read more on 404Media: https://www.404media.co/tiktok-shop-sells-viral-gps-trackers-marketed-to-stalkers/

Stalkerware Being Sold on TikTok & Monetizing our Worst Instincts

This week on the show: some seriously cutting-edge territory. George A talks about what he saw at the Love and Sex with Robots conference in Montreal. Then George K and George A discuss AI companions, embodied LLMs, and the wild intersection of technology and human intimacy.

This isn't just about sex robots - it's about the broader question of how AI is reshaping fundamental human experiences. 

The reality check: If you think this stuff is too niche or weird to matter, give it 5 years. This technology is going to be everywhere - in education, therapy, companionship. The question isn't whether it's coming, it's whether we'll think through the implications before it's too late.

This might be one of the most uncomfortable (and important) tech conversation we're not having as a society.

Fair warning: This episode gets real, fast. But if you work in tech, security, or just want to understand where we're heading as a species, it's worth your time.

Stay tuned to the end to hear about the "door prize" George A from the conference that is gonna make the office Secret Santa…interesting.

Mentioned this episode:

 * Our Season 4 opener with Savannah Sly [https://open.spotify.com/episode/3hBd5UaTTBg5uTmduKCKij?si=Z34KWMGuQ7KEx1yKC6I1Uw]
 * Gov Pritzker Signs Legislation Prohibiting AI Therapy in Illinois [https://idfpr.illinois.gov/news/2025/gov-pritzker-signs-state-leg-prohibiting-ai-therapy-in-il.html]
 * Parents of teenager who took his own life sue OpenAI [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgerwp7rdlvo]
 * You can read the full text of the lawsuit here [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26075676-raine-v-openai/]
 *  Scene from Interstellar [https://youtu.be/v2H1s9gj5DA?feature=shared&t=112] that George K references

Robot Brothels, AI Therapists, and the Future of Human Intimacy

Sumona Banerji, founder of MindShield [https://www.mindshield.org/] and PhD candidate in cyber psychology, joins us to discuss building cognitive resilience in an age of exponential technology and algorithmic manipulation.

George K and George A talk to Sumona about:

 * Truth is fragmented - Everyone only sees a piece of it, creating space for better discussion
 * The TAR framework - Trigger, Analysis, Response for emotional regulation with manipulative content
 * Expanding the amygdala - How meditation literally grows brain regions for critical thinking
 * Algorithm curation - Your feeds mirror your choices; conscious curation transforms your information diet

From documentary filmmaker to tech psychology researcher, Sumona's unconventional path offers unique insights into protecting our cognitive capacity as knowledge workers navigating an increasingly complex information landscape.

-------------

Got an idea or topic you'd like us to cover? Drop us a line at contact@bareknucklespod.com

Building a Shield for Your Mind Against Digital Manipulation

Hosted by two guys named George on either side of the divide, this is a cybersecurity podcast that tackles the relationship between vendors and their customers. George Kamide is on the security vendor side, and George Al-Koura is a CISO on the customer side. Vendors gotta sell, and companies need tooling to protect their data. Tune in to hear real conversations from opposing sides of the pitch about cybersecurity marketing, sales, and go to market strategies. We go after these topics and bad practices with bare knuckles, then it’s down to brass tacks to look for solutions. Tune in to hear from guests from either side, including CISOs, SMEs, sales leaders, frontline account managers, and more!

George Kamide

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