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Give yourself some grace ft. Tiffany Coyle
5 Plays1 year ago
As we continue celebrating Women's History Month, former guest and friend of the podcast Tiffany Coyle returns to catch up with April and Alicia - with a new job title, no less! As Sound Physician's Chief Operating Officer, Tiffany joins us On Call to get candid about how her leadership journey started and how its new heights have brought interesting challenges. Having navigated imposter syndrome, harsh assumptions, and all the highs and lows of leadership, Tiffany speaks to the power of embracing humanity in leadership, offering wisdom on authenticity, setting boundaries, and giving yourself grace.
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
You're asking me really hard questions today.
00:00:05
Speaker
It's Monday morning.
00:00:06
Speaker
That's why it's hard.
00:00:08
Speaker
I'm going to go with a really easy answer.
00:00:10
Speaker
Taylor Swift.
00:00:12
Speaker
Ooh, do tell.
00:00:13
Speaker
With Travis or without Travis?
00:00:16
Speaker
Ooh.
00:00:18
Speaker
It doesn't matter.
00:00:21
Speaker
This is On Call.
00:00:23
Speaker
This would be really cool to just wear scrubs all the time.
00:00:25
Speaker
Then you don't have to think about what you're going to wear to work.
00:00:27
Speaker
That is awesome.
00:00:29
Speaker
We're here to answer your questions.
00:00:30
Speaker
We can sit down and discuss them.
00:00:32
Speaker
Wait, I got to go.
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm on call.
00:00:34
Speaker
Wait, you're on call?
00:00:35
Speaker
I thought I was on call.
Introduction and Welcome Back Tiffany
00:00:40
Speaker
Hey, everybody.
00:00:40
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of On Call with April and Alicia.
00:00:43
Speaker
I'm Alicia.
00:00:45
Speaker
I'm April.
00:00:46
Speaker
I'm Tiffany.
00:00:47
Speaker
Hello.
00:00:48
Speaker
We have a guest.
00:00:49
Speaker
We've got another guest in the call room.
00:00:51
Speaker
Welcome, Tiffany.
00:00:52
Speaker
So for those of you that have followed us from the beginning, Tiffany Coyle was on with us last March, right, Tiff?
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, it was probably almost a year ago, I would say.
00:01:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:02
Speaker
So we're bringing Tiffany back.
00:01:03
Speaker
Tiffany's our...
00:01:04
Speaker
Chief Operating Officer for Sound Physicians.
00:01:06
Speaker
And we're really excited to bring her back and have her give us a little bit of an update from where we were last year in some of our discussions during Women's Herstory Month.
00:01:16
Speaker
So thanks again, Tiffany, for joining us early on a Monday morning.
00:01:20
Speaker
Happy Monday, ladies.
00:01:22
Speaker
It's Monday.
00:01:24
Speaker
It is.
00:01:24
Speaker
You can hear by the silence.
00:01:26
Speaker
Nobody even heard a thing yet.
00:01:27
Speaker
Coffee's not kicked in.
00:01:28
Speaker
Nothing's happened.
00:01:30
Speaker
Well, when you guys called me this morning, you could see me counting numbers on my fingers.
00:01:34
Speaker
So that's how my brain is working.
00:01:36
Speaker
That's exactly, for those that can't see, we're on video and we all pop in and Tiffany's doing finger math.
00:01:43
Speaker
And it just kind of made me giggle.
00:01:45
Speaker
Actually, I'll just tell this part.
00:01:47
Speaker
before we get into the episode, but we were talking about math this morning, Maddox and I were going to school and out of the blue, he just goes, I really don't understand the point of all this math we do.
Funny Math Story: Practical Use in Life
00:02:00
Speaker
And I said, well, like, he was like, I was like, you need math for like your, your accounts.
00:02:07
Speaker
Speaking of, I was hacked.
00:02:08
Speaker
My bank accounts need to know how much money out of balance, a checkbook, but also like how to pay for things out in pharmacy.
00:02:15
Speaker
You need to know that.
00:02:16
Speaker
And it meant like, there's all these different applications of math.
00:02:18
Speaker
I was like, I know it's frustrating.
00:02:19
Speaker
He goes, no, I'm not talking about that mom.
00:02:22
Speaker
This is like really simple, but why am I doing a line?
00:02:25
Speaker
Is it calling line graph line bar, something that they do now?
00:02:28
Speaker
Have you heard of that?
00:02:29
Speaker
In algebra, they do a lot of linear equations.
00:02:33
Speaker
No, this is literally a line bar.
00:02:35
Speaker
It's just this bar where it makes them take 16 or 17 extra steps to figure out an equation or figure out something that's
00:02:45
Speaker
He's like, I could do it without it.
00:02:46
Speaker
But he fails the question if he doesn't show how he did it on some line.
00:02:50
Speaker
Oh, that's like common.
00:02:51
Speaker
That's like the common.
00:02:52
Speaker
Is it common math or something?
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:55
Speaker
Well, he goes, this is practically, this is practically stupid.
00:02:59
Speaker
Basically, is what he said.
00:03:00
Speaker
He's like, and he, like for context, he's nine, you know?
00:03:03
Speaker
So I was like.
00:03:05
Speaker
And he was like, because I can figure it out in my head, but I get the problem wrong if I don't show them how I did it, but I can't really tell them how I did it.
00:03:13
Speaker
It's just how I showed them.
00:03:13
Speaker
He was like, but does it matter if I did it the way they wanted to or if I got it right?
00:03:17
Speaker
And I was like, well,
00:03:19
Speaker
These are all great questions.
00:03:21
Speaker
Ask your math teacher.
00:03:23
Speaker
And he goes, no, but seriously, mom, what am I going to be like?
00:03:26
Speaker
I don't know.
00:03:26
Speaker
I'm a big adult.
00:03:27
Speaker
And I'm like, sorry, sir.
00:03:28
Speaker
Hold on.
00:03:29
Speaker
Let me pull my line line bar out before I give you your change from the register.
00:03:34
Speaker
And he like had this whole like he was going off about it this morning.
00:03:38
Speaker
And I was like, oh, yeah.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think I don't remember math being that challenging for us.
00:03:42
Speaker
Well, we didn't learn it that way.
00:03:44
Speaker
Like during I remember during COVID when they were doing like home, you know, homeschool.
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:48
Speaker
And I was trying to help them with math.
00:03:49
Speaker
Like I was like, I don't.
00:03:50
Speaker
And they were like, Mom, why don't you know how to do this?
00:03:52
Speaker
And I said, because when we were kids, we just added or subtracted or divided.
00:03:56
Speaker
And that was it.
00:03:56
Speaker
Like we didn't have to do all these pictures and all the things.
00:04:00
Speaker
So I had to like go back and watch their lectures to learn how to do what they were supposed to do.
00:04:04
Speaker
Which is weird because you think like if you have a question and you know, let's say like show your work.
00:04:11
Speaker
I do remember that from school, but we were Montessori.
00:04:13
Speaker
So we just did things with beads and like we moved beads around and like this 10 yellow bead thing represented hundreds, excuse me, Mike, represented hundreds or represented this.
00:04:24
Speaker
And I, in my mind, when I do math, I like shift beads around.
00:04:28
Speaker
It's the weirdest thing, but it was all memorization or like really understanding principle.
00:04:33
Speaker
and just being able to execute it.
00:04:35
Speaker
Maybe a geographic, or what do they call it?
00:04:37
Speaker
The calculator, scientific calculator that you have to get when you're in high school.
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:42
Speaker
And, but I mean, it's not like you could walk around with those, but now every day we're walking around with a phone in our pocket or, you know, something that's doing math.
00:04:50
Speaker
AI just does it for you because you say the word S-I-R-I and she will
00:04:56
Speaker
answer your question you didn't even ask her.
00:04:57
Speaker
So I think that's what our kids are going through
Spring Sports and Family Plans
00:05:01
Speaker
now.
00:05:01
Speaker
But I kind of understand because if it's like a show your work thing, does it matter if you got the question right?
00:05:07
Speaker
If we all arrive there differently, but we get it right.
00:05:10
Speaker
That's the part that frustrates me.
00:05:12
Speaker
And I also feel like as an adult, I paid my dues.
00:05:15
Speaker
I don't think that I should have to learn new math.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
I think the purpose of Common Core Math, I never really understood it.
00:05:23
Speaker
That's what it's called, Common Core.
00:05:24
Speaker
It's to try to teach kids to do things in their head because you like round up and round down to get like close to the answer, I feel like.
00:05:32
Speaker
And then you have to use the whatever's left to kind of get to the real answer.
00:05:37
Speaker
But I'm with you.
00:05:38
Speaker
I would just prefer to like...
00:05:41
Speaker
draw out my long division.
00:05:44
Speaker
I was thinking about multiplication when I was in school.
00:05:49
Speaker
I don't remember, so I may be misquoting this because I'm a couple years removed from where my kids were with that, but it was something like if it was seven times eight,
00:05:58
Speaker
Then you go like seven dots down and like eight dots to the right.
00:06:03
Speaker
And like, if you had to like make this thing and like you would draw all these dots out and then you go like, okay, so the answer is that we just had to memorize them.
00:06:11
Speaker
We had like cards and you had to do it under 60 seconds and just do it and commit it to memory.
00:06:16
Speaker
But now it's like,
00:06:18
Speaker
It is a long process.
00:06:20
Speaker
And I'm like, well, this is new math and our economy is going to stink in about 20 or 30 years.
00:06:26
Speaker
Unless AI takes it all over.
00:06:28
Speaker
But gosh, who's going to program that with common math?
00:06:32
Speaker
So anyway, that's my stupid story from the weekend.
00:06:34
Speaker
How are you guys doing?
00:06:36
Speaker
Doing good.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yep.
00:06:38
Speaker
Anything new?
00:06:40
Speaker
Not really.
00:06:41
Speaker
Just spring sports starting up.
00:06:43
Speaker
Getting warmer outside.
00:06:44
Speaker
It is getting warmer.
00:06:45
Speaker
It's kind of nice, huh?
00:06:46
Speaker
It's nice.
00:06:47
Speaker
Tiffany's near me.
00:06:49
Speaker
It's going to be warm for us in the next week or two, like 70s or something.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's going to be fake spring.
00:06:54
Speaker
We're going to have like a rebound to winter, like just to punish us all.
00:06:59
Speaker
But I will enjoy the fake spring.
00:07:02
Speaker
Any day.
00:07:02
Speaker
I was telling somebody the other day that we
00:07:06
Speaker
we had like, um, 60 or something degree weather a couple of weeks ago.
00:07:09
Speaker
And then like on a Saturday night, it was a big thunderstorm and the next day it was snowing.
00:07:14
Speaker
I was like, mother nature is, she's just upset right now.
00:07:18
Speaker
I don't know what's going on with her, but all right.
00:07:20
Speaker
Well, um, as we normally do, we, we did do an episode of let's break the ice with Tiffany on the last time that she was with us, but we thought it would be just good for those who didn't hear that episode.
Imposter Syndrome Recap and Updates
00:07:30
Speaker
Go back and listen to that.
00:07:31
Speaker
Actually, I would encourage you guys all to go back and listen to this episode.
00:07:35
Speaker
Um,
00:07:36
Speaker
that we did with Tiffany last March, we'll put the episode number in the show notes just so that you guys can reference that.
00:07:42
Speaker
But it would be great for you to go back and listen and listen to Tiffany's story then and then how we're really excited to build on that story today.
00:07:50
Speaker
But Tiffany, in typical on-call fashion style, we're going to start with another quick series of Let's Break the Ice.
00:07:57
Speaker
Is that good with you?
TV Shows & Authentic Leadership
00:07:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:59
Speaker
All right, April, you get to go first.
00:08:02
Speaker
Oh, I get to go first.
00:08:03
Speaker
All right, Tiffany.
00:08:05
Speaker
I always get to go first.
00:08:06
Speaker
What TV show are you watching right now?
00:08:09
Speaker
Oh, so I'm actually in the middle of a couple right now.
00:08:12
Speaker
I'm in the middle of 1923.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:15
Speaker
which is the prequel to Yellowstone.
00:08:18
Speaker
I do not like Yellowstone.
00:08:20
Speaker
Just by the way, I'm not a huge Yellowstone fan.
00:08:22
Speaker
Is Kevin Costner, he's in that one, right?
00:08:24
Speaker
Kevin Costner.
00:08:24
Speaker
Not the prequels.
00:08:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:27
Speaker
So the prequels actually more of like the history of the journey out West.
00:08:31
Speaker
And so I really am enjoying that.
00:08:33
Speaker
I'm watching the pit with my daughter.
00:08:36
Speaker
And then my son and I are watching Severance, my oldest son.
00:08:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:42
Speaker
So I think, I think firing immediately.
00:08:47
Speaker
So it's just like, I'm not very far in, so he doesn't live here.
00:08:51
Speaker
So I'm like, we watch them and then like talk about it.
00:08:54
Speaker
I'm not as, I have a couple of episodes to catch up on, but severance is this concept where when you're at work, you like go through this process where you have no outside memories of anything besides just work.
00:09:09
Speaker
And then when you leave work,
00:09:10
Speaker
You have no memories of work.
00:09:14
Speaker
Sign me up.
00:09:18
Speaker
I'm thinking it turns not great, however.
00:09:22
Speaker
But have you guys watched The Pit?
00:09:24
Speaker
No.
00:09:25
Speaker
So it's this new, it's this, Noah Wiley in it.
00:09:31
Speaker
I don't know, ER.
00:09:31
Speaker
Remember the guy from ER?
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, that was my favorite first medical show ever.
00:09:35
Speaker
He's now an experienced ER attending.
00:09:38
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:09:39
Speaker
He wasn't a resident anymore.
00:09:41
Speaker
There's 12 episodes, and each episode represents one hour of the shift.
00:09:47
Speaker
Oh, I think I saw, like, the trailer for that.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's actually pretty... And it's not, like...
00:09:55
Speaker
You know, Grey's is so much like it's like a medical soap opera.
00:09:59
Speaker
Shocking asystole.
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:02
Speaker
This is actually so an emergency room physician is one of the writers and practicing emergency room physician.
00:10:09
Speaker
And so there are some things that are a little off, but I think it's probably one of the more realistic things.
00:10:16
Speaker
healthcare shows that I've seen.
00:10:19
Speaker
But yes, we're watching that.
00:10:20
Speaker
That's pretty exciting.
00:10:21
Speaker
Check it out.
00:10:22
Speaker
My favorite healthcare show ever was House, but that was because of his attitude.
00:10:27
Speaker
I loved it.
00:10:28
Speaker
And I knew it wasn't real.
00:10:29
Speaker
It's like, oh, doctors, they do ultrasounds and they do, and they put you through CAT scan and MRI and they put your IV in and they do like the docs and house did everything.
00:10:40
Speaker
There was like no other supportive staff.
00:10:42
Speaker
ever, but I just liked, I liked, I liked House.
00:10:45
Speaker
I liked his energy.
00:10:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:47
Speaker
All right.
00:10:48
Speaker
So I have a quick funny story real quick.
00:10:49
Speaker
So my daughter and I are watching The Hundred.
00:10:52
Speaker
Have you guys seen this?
00:10:54
Speaker
I know the premise of it, but I've never seen it where there's like a hundred people left on earth.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:59
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:10:59
Speaker
This is like, this is not reality.
00:11:01
Speaker
No, no.
00:11:02
Speaker
No, no, I know not reality.
00:11:04
Speaker
I meant reality show.
00:11:04
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:11:05
Speaker
Or like a Squid Games type of thing.
00:11:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:09
Speaker
So it's like a, the premise of it is like, yeah, there was going to be
00:11:12
Speaker
You know, like there was like a nuclear bomb that was going to go off in this.
00:11:14
Speaker
So this group of people lived in space on something called the Ark for a long time.
00:11:18
Speaker
And then they sent down 100 kids basically to see if Earth was survivable.
00:11:22
Speaker
So we're watching it.
00:11:24
Speaker
And we watched like three episodes last night.
00:11:26
Speaker
And then I like went to bed and I dreamt that we were in the show.
00:11:31
Speaker
And we're like in this, there's like these people in the show that like attack other people.
00:11:35
Speaker
And so this morning where I'm like driving her to school and she was like, how are you mom?
00:11:38
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm kind of tired.
00:11:40
Speaker
And she's like, why?
00:11:41
Speaker
And I was like, cause I was in the hundred all night last night.
00:11:43
Speaker
And she was like, what?
00:11:44
Speaker
And I was like, yeah.
00:11:45
Speaker
And I was like, I was dreaming that we were in this battle and they're like this guy.
00:11:48
Speaker
And she was like, did they kill us?
00:11:49
Speaker
I'm like, no, the guy saved us.
00:11:51
Speaker
And we were like talking about the characters.
00:11:52
Speaker
And she was like, you are crazy.
00:11:54
Speaker
I was like, I'm really tired.
00:11:57
Speaker
Cause I was fighting all night in my dreams.
00:12:00
Speaker
So.
00:12:00
Speaker
Anyways, there you go.
00:12:02
Speaker
Well, I only dream about weather.
00:12:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:04
Speaker
So, all right, Tiffany, if what, like, what is one thing that you wish, I mean, you're a leader in sound.
00:12:14
Speaker
Um, we know you through professional relationships and then obviously relationships that have developed from there, but what's one thing that you wished people knew about you, not corporate Tiffany, just Tiffany.
00:12:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:12:32
Speaker
Got her.
00:12:32
Speaker
Put in the Jeopardy music.
00:12:34
Speaker
I know.
00:12:34
Speaker
That's a hard one.
00:12:36
Speaker
I don't even know what I would say.
00:12:37
Speaker
I mean, here's what I would say.
00:12:40
Speaker
I don't think, I don't know.
00:12:42
Speaker
Like, either of you, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
00:12:44
Speaker
But I do feel like I'm pretty open about who I am and the way I show up at work every day.
00:12:52
Speaker
And so I don't think that there's that much that people...
00:13:00
Speaker
don't know about me.
00:13:01
Speaker
Like, I don't, I don't feel like there's a significant part of myself that I hide in the way that like, or not hide, maybe that's a bad word, but that I like show up every day.
00:13:10
Speaker
Maybe, I mean, if I had to say something, maybe sometimes if people don't know me really well and they just interact with me on a call, sometimes people assume that
00:13:22
Speaker
I can be a little more harsh maybe because I'm just kind of like, Hey, like, how's everybody let's get started on this.
00:13:31
Speaker
But I'm not, I don't know.
00:13:34
Speaker
I'll tell you the reason I asked you that question is because I think when we think of corporate execs, your chief operating officer for sound, those people historically in April, you probably agree.
00:13:44
Speaker
for us as we were working our way up through leadership felt really untouchable.
00:13:49
Speaker
They almost feel not human.
00:13:51
Speaker
And that it's this kind of gap between us and them.
00:13:58
Speaker
And one thing with you is you kind of olive branched through that gap.
00:14:04
Speaker
So I was just kind of curious what your thoughts would be about maybe misconceptions around your role or your accessibility.
00:14:14
Speaker
Oh, maybe I guess then I would say I'm probably more sensitive than what people realize.
00:14:23
Speaker
I think people probably assume because of the way I speak and the connotation and the words that I use that I'm not as sensitive as I actually am sometimes.
00:14:33
Speaker
And I do get my feelings hurt sometimes.
00:14:35
Speaker
yeah um different things but yeah yeah no i don't mean hey i'm glad you get your picture but it's it's normal because sometimes leaders feel like they feel like superheroes like if you think about it you're like do they even have lives do they have kids do they have feelings do they have they gone through anything they possibly can't know my hardship that's why i asked that question because especially talking about what we're going to talk about today all right april you're up all right um
00:15:03
Speaker
What?
00:15:04
Speaker
So we were just talking earlier about how like spring weather's coming, all that stuff.
00:15:08
Speaker
So what is your favorite part of the spring season, Tiffany?
00:15:12
Speaker
Spring break.
00:15:13
Speaker
Hey.
00:15:14
Speaker
Do you have plans for spring break this year?
00:15:16
Speaker
Going to Disney World.
00:15:18
Speaker
Oh, nice.
00:15:19
Speaker
So we're going to do a week in Disney world.
00:15:21
Speaker
And then my, we fly home on Sunday and then my daughter and I have to fly back a few days later for all star cheer worlds.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yay.
00:15:30
Speaker
Go cheer.
00:15:31
Speaker
Yay.
00:15:38
Speaker
That's a rough life.
00:15:39
Speaker
Hey, Tiffany.
00:15:39
Speaker
We were there this weekend and it was a cheer or actually it was dance, dance and volleyball on the same place.
00:15:45
Speaker
And it,
00:15:46
Speaker
Yay.
00:15:48
Speaker
Weekend sports.
00:15:49
Speaker
That's a lot.
00:15:51
Speaker
A lot of people.
00:15:53
Speaker
I actually love the sport itself.
00:15:55
Speaker
I do.
00:15:57
Speaker
But it's the...
00:15:59
Speaker
it's just really loud and it's dark and there's like sparkly.
00:16:04
Speaker
It's just very overwhelming to me.
00:16:06
Speaker
Like with every set, like all you could smell is like hairspray and perfume and it's dark with like disco lights and there's like bass music in the background and it's like just extremely overstimulating.
00:16:22
Speaker
I love the dichotomy of that.
00:16:25
Speaker
April, if you get into that point where
00:16:27
Speaker
club volleyball intersects with cheer or dance.
00:16:31
Speaker
It is one of the funniest things you'll ever see.
00:16:33
Speaker
And anybody listening will know when you're at like a convention center and you've got like stinky volleyball players walking through these like perfectly clothed dancers or cheer people with their like sparkles in their perfect outfits in volleyball.
00:16:47
Speaker
Like they smell, they don't wash their knee pads for a reason.
00:16:50
Speaker
Cause it's like, like they get superstitious around it.
00:16:55
Speaker
Like it is the weirdest dichotomy, but
00:16:57
Speaker
And it's also a long day, but both parents go through the same laborious weekend.
00:17:02
Speaker
So I feel you're paying there.
00:17:04
Speaker
All right.
00:17:05
Speaker
My last question.
00:17:06
Speaker
So last time we asked you, I just remembered April, we asked her about her comfort, like her go-to food.
00:17:11
Speaker
And she said bagels, she eats bagels every morning.
00:17:13
Speaker
That's what she said in the very first one.
00:17:15
Speaker
So I'm not going to ask that one, but I did want to put that one out there.
00:17:19
Speaker
All right, Tiffany, my last question, if you could have dinner, we asked this question.
00:17:24
Speaker
to most of our guests.
00:17:24
Speaker
But if you could have dinner with any historical figure, dead or alive, who would it be?
00:17:34
Speaker
You're asking me really hard questions today.
00:17:39
Speaker
It's Monday morning.
00:17:40
Speaker
That's why it's hard.
00:17:41
Speaker
I'm going to go with a really easy answer.
00:17:44
Speaker
Taylor Swift.
00:17:46
Speaker
Ooh, do tell.
00:17:47
Speaker
With Travis or without Travis?
00:17:49
Speaker
Ooh.
00:17:52
Speaker
It doesn't matter.
00:17:55
Speaker
She's the main star in that.
00:17:58
Speaker
Isn't she?
00:17:59
Speaker
Tell me why.
00:17:59
Speaker
I could definitely pick some really knowledgeable, historic, important figures that have made amazing contributions to society, but I do feel like if you look at her and what she has accomplished in her industry as a singer and a songwriter, has really done some
00:18:23
Speaker
you know, broken a lot of records and has really kind of been at the forefront of that in the industry.
00:18:29
Speaker
And I think it'd be a really fun dinner.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right.
00:18:33
Speaker
And she'd probably pay for it too.
00:18:35
Speaker
So you could go somewhere nice and no one would bother you.
00:18:37
Speaker
That's my dream world.
00:18:39
Speaker
You have the whole place to yourself.
00:18:44
Speaker
Oh, that was fun.
00:18:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:46
Speaker
in all seriousness here, um, we brought Tiffany back on, on our last episode with Tiffany about a year ago, we talked to Tiffany about imposter syndrome and she shared a reflection, um, on our women of sound,
00:18:59
Speaker
meeting that we have internally to our company and really, really impacted a bunch of people.
00:19:04
Speaker
What was interesting was I had, you know, like a couple people within different departments that reached out to talk about your talk, Tiffany, and that's why we were really, really excited to have you on the first time.
00:19:14
Speaker
But since that time, there's been some pretty cool changes in your world professionally, and I thought we'd bring you back to talk about those.
00:19:21
Speaker
So why don't we start first with, why don't you intro you, tell us a little bit of your sound story
Career Progression at Sound Physicians
00:19:27
Speaker
or your life story.
00:19:27
Speaker
It doesn't have to be
00:19:28
Speaker
to sound and what has changed since last year?
00:19:33
Speaker
So I think last year we spoke, I was regional president of what was then known as Gateway Region, which was kind of like our eastern, midwest, northeast section of the country.
00:19:45
Speaker
And I am now the chief operating officer of hospital medicine and emergency medicine.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:52
Speaker
That was a big, big, that was the first thing we were like, we can't wait to bring Tiffany back.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah, I know.
00:19:59
Speaker
Yeah, really big.
00:20:02
Speaker
It's been, I think it'll be a year in April, May, maybe.
00:20:08
Speaker
And some days it feels very natural and it feels like I've been doing this a long time.
00:20:13
Speaker
And other days it feels like I still haven't figured out quite what to do.
00:20:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:22
Speaker
I know the feeling.
00:20:26
Speaker
But for the, for those that didn't meet you in the previous episode and aren't listening to the instructions and following them as I would not, um, tell them a little bit how you got to sound, where you started.
00:20:36
Speaker
So I came to sound in 2014.
00:20:40
Speaker
I actually just had my 11th anniversary on Valentine's day.
00:20:50
Speaker
So I came to sound from hospital, from a healthcare hospital setting and had kind of done a bunch of different things in the hospital side and was in the role prior to sound was a director of quality and case management at a hospital system.
00:21:08
Speaker
And then if you kind of look at the trajectory of my career, it's
00:21:13
Speaker
I feel very blessed and very lucky by just getting to work with super great people who saw something in me that maybe I didn't see in myself at that time.
00:21:26
Speaker
But had started out.
00:21:27
Speaker
So I'd started college, got pregnant, quit college, went back to work.
00:21:34
Speaker
And actually I became a health unit coordinator at a hospital in Cincinnati because it,
00:21:42
Speaker
paid at the time what was pretty decent money in you know 2000 I think it I made 10 25 an hour yeah I remember those days yeah I'm making 12 dollars um and I worked as uh yeah as a huck at in one of the hospitals over downtown and did that for a long time I think for probably about three years
00:22:12
Speaker
crazy so then you came to sound how'd you get to sound um so well I mean the journey kind of has this really weird um long winding road where so when I was a
00:22:27
Speaker
When I was a huck, then I went over and I got a big raise.
00:22:31
Speaker
I went to $12.75 an hour.
00:22:33
Speaker
Rich, rich, rich.
00:22:35
Speaker
I know.
00:22:37
Speaker
And I became an administrative assistant for what was then called the nursing practice, professional practice organization.
00:22:45
Speaker
So basically it was the nurses that kind of started in that journey of magnet where they kind of had committees of nurses that did self-governance in the hospital.
00:22:55
Speaker
So I was in AA supporting them and I did like help out with the people who are running joint commission and accreditation.
00:23:02
Speaker
And then I had an amazing boss who
00:23:07
Speaker
Right up the road, there was a community college.
00:23:09
Speaker
It was called Cincinnati State, which is still a really great, fantastic community college in the community.
00:23:15
Speaker
It's really more known for their, like, trade and technical schools.
00:23:20
Speaker
They do a lot of associate degrees of, like, imaging and, you know, like, medical lab techs and kind of a lot of that associate degree imaging or...
00:23:31
Speaker
technology type work.
00:23:33
Speaker
But I still had to complete my general credits and stuff.
00:23:38
Speaker
So she would let me leave work on my lunch break and I would drive down the road to Cincinnati State and take some classes because I had to, I had about a year of college under my belt when I quit.
00:23:51
Speaker
And then I wanted to get all my gen eds done.
00:23:54
Speaker
So I did that for a few years and
00:23:57
Speaker
And then became a performance improvement analyst.
00:24:03
Speaker
So at that point, so I'm also working at the same hospital.
00:24:08
Speaker
I graduated with my bachelor's because I had started night school.
00:24:11
Speaker
So I was picking up night classes because I could only go so far since I stayed because I didn't offer bachelor's degrees.
00:24:19
Speaker
And I just kind of said at NKU at that time, because I had a conglomerate of credit hours, like, what can I do to get out of here?
00:24:27
Speaker
It's just like, I just need a bachelor's degree.
00:24:29
Speaker
Just need that piece of paper.
00:24:35
Speaker
It was labor relations.
00:24:37
Speaker
So I finished my undergrad in labor relations.
00:24:42
Speaker
And started working as like a performance.
00:24:44
Speaker
With a child.
00:24:45
Speaker
With a child.
00:24:47
Speaker
And now looking back, I'm like, I have no idea how I ever did that.
00:24:52
Speaker
I literally have no idea how I survived.
00:24:56
Speaker
It was like, it's crazy town.
00:24:58
Speaker
It definitely wasn't.
00:24:59
Speaker
I would say if I would meet myself.
00:25:01
Speaker
Have you seen those TikToks going around where it's like if I had coffee with my 25 year old self today.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:05
Speaker
But I would have said too late.
00:25:12
Speaker
I would have just been like I swear it gets better just keep going I really thought people died at 30 like that kind of was my belief for my mom was like you should go into medicine you should do med school and I was like I will practically be done when I'm 30 and I'll be dead like in my mind it was like the end of my life but anyway sorry it was like yeah I don't even know how I survived
00:25:43
Speaker
Well, and, you know, I got at this point, I think, you know, after I got my raise to $12.75 an hour,
00:25:48
Speaker
I lost my daycare assistance because you know, that I was outside of the, making too much, too much money.
00:25:56
Speaker
So I, I made 1275 an hour and I think daycare was like 200 bucks a week or something.
00:26:02
Speaker
I literally, I just, I don't know how we got through, but we did.
00:26:07
Speaker
It's bigger math.
00:26:07
Speaker
That's line math.
00:26:10
Speaker
That's really what you had to know how much money you're making life decisions at a gas pump sometimes.
00:26:18
Speaker
I remember when I got my paycheck, I would pay the full two weeks of daycare because I was so scared that I would if something would happen and I wouldn't have the money that I was like, I got to pay all of it for the next two weeks up front.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:32
Speaker
But yeah, it was really, really life-changing, I think, for me as a person.
00:26:39
Speaker
I didn't really have any parental support.
00:26:41
Speaker
My grandparents were super involved, and they kind of helped out when they could, not financially, but just with emotional support and different things like that.
00:26:51
Speaker
But yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker
Yeah, so I became a performance improvement manager at this hospital.
00:26:56
Speaker
So by this time, I had been there probably six or seven years.
00:27:01
Speaker
And kind of, it was at University of Cincinnati, which is a huge, huge hospital.
00:27:05
Speaker
It's the biggest hospital here where we live, but had kind of been involved in committees.
00:27:12
Speaker
I was kind of like the person who just knew everybody.
00:27:14
Speaker
Like when people would come in for tours of the hospital, I would give them the tours because I knew like all the ins and outs of all the departments and...
00:27:21
Speaker
um because I had worked so much with like accreditation and patient safety campaigns I um was auditing like I'd audit a lot of clinical charts and different things like that so my the vice president patient or the chief operating officer of that hospital left and went to a competing hospital and um
00:27:48
Speaker
She called me a couple months later and said, hey, I want to bring you over as a manager in performance improvement.
00:27:57
Speaker
So came over the day after I got to the hospital.
00:28:02
Speaker
It was announced that they were in an alliance.
00:28:05
Speaker
There was like seven or eight hospitals in an alliance.
00:28:07
Speaker
They shared all core essential services.
00:28:09
Speaker
This hospital was leaving the alliance.
00:28:13
Speaker
And because of the
00:28:17
Speaker
the drama.
00:28:18
Speaker
So they were like the one hospital in the Alliance that was making money.
00:28:21
Speaker
So because the other hospitals in the system, we're going to lose a ton of funding because they were pretty much getting subsidized by this hospital.
00:28:28
Speaker
They gave them a 90 day notice and they cut off all it access.
00:28:34
Speaker
So started there and within 90 days were brought up a brand new email.
00:28:40
Speaker
First hospital actually to go live with an EMR in Cincinnati.
00:28:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:45
Speaker
So Epic out of the box.
00:28:47
Speaker
Oh, you got Epic when they wore the construction?
00:28:51
Speaker
It was probably like the 10th user of Epic.
00:28:55
Speaker
And it was a bunch of like 22-year-old college graduates who like never worked in healthcare before.
00:29:04
Speaker
So like brand new EMR, brand new lab system, brand new radiology system, brand new anesthesia system, like everything in 90 days.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:13
Speaker
That was crazy.
00:29:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:15
Speaker
It's absolutely crazy.
00:29:18
Speaker
Well, and worked there for a couple of years.
00:29:23
Speaker
And then somebody I worked with at university had moved on to a different hospital call and said, Hey, I want you to come over and be the director.
00:29:30
Speaker
So I had just really like always had this philosophy of if you put your head down and you work hard, that somebody sees a talent that you bring and, you know,
00:29:41
Speaker
kind of always brought me along.
00:29:42
Speaker
And so that's how I ended up at sound.
00:29:44
Speaker
Cause I was at a hospital working with a group of hospitalists who sold their practice to sound.
00:29:52
Speaker
And they were like, Hey, come over.
00:29:54
Speaker
We need like a operational diet partner.
00:29:57
Speaker
We really enjoy working with you.
00:29:59
Speaker
Will you come over and do this with us?
00:30:03
Speaker
And I was like, sure.
00:30:04
Speaker
So I came over as a director in 2014.
00:30:07
Speaker
I know.
00:30:11
Speaker
That's crazy.
00:30:12
Speaker
I'm going to fast forward through some of it because it was like when you keep running the last one and I don't want you to feel like you've got to repeat that part because I want people to go back and listen.
00:30:21
Speaker
But you came to us.
00:30:22
Speaker
So you came in to sound as a regional director or not RDO.
00:30:26
Speaker
You were.
00:30:28
Speaker
I was an RDO.
00:30:29
Speaker
You were.
00:30:30
Speaker
Oh, not practice manager for some reason.
00:30:31
Speaker
I apologize.
00:30:32
Speaker
So RDO to.
00:30:35
Speaker
To RVP to GVP to RP to COO.
00:30:41
Speaker
So for people who don't know all of those lovely little terms, it's regional vice president to group vice president
00:30:48
Speaker
to regional regional president yeah to chief operating officer i love that so it when our on our last episode we talked you talked about imposter syndrome yeah and what that meant for you and and at that time you're regional president so tell me just tell us a little bit about imposter syndrome not too much but just kind of recap what you were going through at that time and what that's like for you right now
00:31:16
Speaker
So, you know, I think I don't want to kind of rehash it because I think we've talked about the time, but the imposter syndrome is essentially just this general uneasiness about like who you are and do you belong?
Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
00:31:29
Speaker
And are you confident in what you're bringing to the table?
00:31:32
Speaker
And for me, caused for very much my life, a lot of self-doubt and insecurity.
00:31:39
Speaker
And I think it was really driven for me from the fact that I kind of
00:31:46
Speaker
came up in a different way.
00:31:48
Speaker
You know, like I kind of was at the bottom and worked and worked and worked and worked and went to a public school and, you know, kind of all of these types of things and not just really kind of understanding who I was and what I was bringing to the table.
00:32:06
Speaker
I'll tell you the most bizarre thing is in the past year, it's,
00:32:13
Speaker
I'm in a completely different place with it.
00:32:15
Speaker
And I would think that the more I would progress, the more challenging, the more challenging dealing with apostasy syndrome would be.
00:32:26
Speaker
But for the past year, it's really kind of settled down for me.
00:32:30
Speaker
Like, don't get me wrong.
00:32:31
Speaker
Does it rear its ugly head every now and then?
00:32:33
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:32:34
Speaker
It does.
00:32:36
Speaker
But I think I'm in such a spot now in my career where I work,
00:32:42
Speaker
I mean, you guys work with these people too, but I have the best team.
00:32:49
Speaker
Such a strong group of operators that I'm blessed to work with every single day.
00:32:53
Speaker
We have such a fantastic group of physician leaders that we get to work with every single day.
00:32:59
Speaker
I think it's because we're really, we operate and we work so well as a team together that I find a lot of safety and security in that.
00:33:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:12
Speaker
Um, and so it's, it's actually, I've been in a much, much better place in the past couple of months that I have been for the past 25 years.
00:33:23
Speaker
That's good.
00:33:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:24
Speaker
You said something, Tiffany, I just, that kind of connected in this response was, um, when you were, you know, first had your first child and were going through school, you had a leader that said, like, what you specifically said was like, I had this amazing leader.
00:33:42
Speaker
and this person would let you leave to go to school, do you find yourself in that same position where you're like, this is the type of leader I want to emulate?
00:33:51
Speaker
This is part of a team.
00:33:52
Speaker
It's not a free-for-all.
00:33:54
Speaker
We're not just one person climbing a ladder to the top.
00:33:56
Speaker
It takes a team to get you there.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah, and I think the people that I manage now are in a much different spot than I directly manage, but a lot of our PMT members are in very similar, I think, situations and
00:34:10
Speaker
Just trying to be supportive and help people and, you know, like recognize the value that somebody brings to the table regardless of what their credentials may say behind their name.
00:34:23
Speaker
And I think that was the real thing that I had with my boss that I remember she said to me, we were just sitting around talking.
00:34:30
Speaker
It was like late in the day and I was getting ready to leave.
00:34:33
Speaker
And she's the one who said, okay.
00:34:35
Speaker
I don't know why you don't go back to school.
00:34:37
Speaker
You're smarter than most of the people who work or that we work with every day are.
00:34:42
Speaker
And that's when it kind of hit me.
00:34:43
Speaker
It was like, God, do I want to like grow up, you know, and,
00:34:49
Speaker
work with people and kind of feel this way when I feel like you know just because I didn't have the credentials behind my name I didn't have a seat at the table and so that's when I was really like yeah I'm gonna start doing this and I'm gonna just start taking two classes a week part-time at noon to one and like we're just gonna chip away at it yeah you gotta start somewhere right so yeah
00:35:10
Speaker
Do you think that there are certain groups that experience imposter syndrome more than others?
00:35:15
Speaker
Oh, for sure.
00:35:17
Speaker
Women.
00:35:17
Speaker
I think we talked about that in the last call that women are the predominantly target, I think, of imposter syndrome.
00:35:27
Speaker
And we talked about this, the study where it was like they asked 100 men how many could fly a
00:35:35
Speaker
a commercial plane if they needed to an emergency and like 19 like 97 out of 100 men so that they they could figure it out yeah where i think women just tend to think more about things and be a little more like self-critical um and so i definitely think it definitely targets women more yeah
00:35:59
Speaker
I'd say that kind of leads into the question I wanted to ask, which was like having to challenge stereotypes.
00:36:06
Speaker
And one thing that I think we all have in common in some ways, we came in here kind of not traditionally, but the way our life, like Tiffany, I had a child obviously young as well.
00:36:19
Speaker
You had a child young.
00:36:21
Speaker
there's some stereotype that comes with that.
00:36:23
Speaker
And like what, at least that, that was what I believed, honestly, was that I was kind of scarred there, but what, what have you had to challenge certain stereotypes or assumptions about your ability to be an expert in certain areas, just giving, given your background or given maybe how you showed up at the table a little bit differently and less traditionally.
00:36:44
Speaker
For sure.
00:36:44
Speaker
I think anytime you work in a healthcare setting and you're working with clinicians and you're a non-clinician, there's automatically like a,
00:36:52
Speaker
You don't know what it's like.
00:36:53
Speaker
You don't, you know, which I don't.
00:36:55
Speaker
And I would never, you know, say to like you or April, I guess I do know what it's like to be an APP.
00:37:01
Speaker
No, I don't.
00:37:02
Speaker
I have concepts of what I think it's like.
00:37:04
Speaker
I've spent enough time in hospitals working with providers, but no, I've never had a,
00:37:09
Speaker
patient scream at me and a family member yell.
00:37:13
Speaker
I've never had an unexpected death.
00:37:14
Speaker
Like I've never had to deal with that.
00:37:18
Speaker
I think for me, it's probably why I lean so hard on just data.
00:37:26
Speaker
Of like, at the end of the day, we all can come to a table and have a lot of emotions and a lot of feelings about what's right or wrong.
00:37:33
Speaker
But really, like, the source of truth is always going to be what is the data telling us.
00:37:38
Speaker
And I think that can really quickly negate a lot of feelings people have.
00:37:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
00:37:47
Speaker
I mean, you know, we can...
00:37:49
Speaker
You know, we hear all the time, like, you know, just kind of how the teams feel and like all that, you know, that volume is really high.
00:37:54
Speaker
And then, you know, we can pull the data and we can say, yeah, you're right.
00:37:57
Speaker
Like it is, you know, and yes, you do need help.
00:37:59
Speaker
And we understand that.
00:38:00
Speaker
And so I think as a clinician too, that's sort of validating for them, like to say, oh, they understand.
00:38:05
Speaker
I do feel like this, you know?
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:07
Speaker
So it is.
00:38:08
Speaker
And then really, if the data and the perception don't match, to me, that's an indicator of a bigger problem.
00:38:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:15
Speaker
Right.
00:38:15
Speaker
And that's always a good place to start of like, hey, your perception is your reality and I respect and totally honor your perception.
00:38:23
Speaker
But this is what the data is saying.
00:38:25
Speaker
So let's talk about what's making you feel this way or let's talk about like there have been instances where providers have said, hey, I'm really busy.
00:38:34
Speaker
And we're like, well, you're billing services.
00:38:37
Speaker
five patients in a shift and you know over 12 hours and then realize like their credentials were set up wrong and you know they were billing and the charges were going to somewhere else right and that's a really good opportunity to have a conversation and be like okay well write down every patient you see tomorrow then we're going to track it in the data and figure out where where's going yeah where's it going yeah yeah that's true um
00:39:02
Speaker
So you mentioned kind of you still, you know, your imposter syndrome is much better now, but there's still some days.
00:39:07
Speaker
And so, you know, what do you do to handle that kind of self-doubt those days?
00:39:11
Speaker
And what advice do you have?
00:39:12
Speaker
Like what practical strategies do you think people can use to kind of overcome an imposter syndrome when they're feeling it?
00:39:18
Speaker
I think there's definitely like opportunity to lean on, you know, a work friend of somebody that you really trust to be.
00:39:24
Speaker
We talked about that.
00:39:26
Speaker
Bestie, the work bestie.
00:39:26
Speaker
Work bestie.
00:39:27
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:39:30
Speaker
I think it's sometimes you just have to recognize like last week was a really tough week.
Support and Grace in Leadership
00:39:38
Speaker
There was lots of just lots of kind of issues happening.
00:39:43
Speaker
And I can usually tell when I start getting a little crispy around the edges of like, it's like scheduled some time off, take a break.
00:39:54
Speaker
I think, you know, I was, had got off a couple of series of tough calls and,
00:39:59
Speaker
Somebody, might have been you, April.
00:40:01
Speaker
It was you or Susie Aikie.
00:40:02
Speaker
Somebody called me.
00:40:03
Speaker
I was like, what are you doing?
00:40:03
Speaker
And I was like, I'm literally walking around circles in my driveway right now.
00:40:06
Speaker
The sun is out.
00:40:08
Speaker
But I just can't really get up.
00:40:10
Speaker
Go outside and just walk around for a little bit.
00:40:13
Speaker
You can tell when Tiffany's outside, too, because you're like, are you in the jungle?
00:40:17
Speaker
Or like, you just hear the birds.
00:40:19
Speaker
I have lots of birds.
00:40:20
Speaker
I don't know why.
00:40:22
Speaker
I don't know if there's like that many birds in the jungle.
00:40:24
Speaker
I've never been in the jungle.
00:40:25
Speaker
But...
00:40:26
Speaker
I think the other thing that I'm just like, for me, I think for 2025, the thing that I'm trying to learn how to do is not so much focused on imposter syndrome.
00:40:38
Speaker
It's about giving yourself grace.
00:40:40
Speaker
And I've recognized as a leader that
00:40:46
Speaker
that I give a lot of grace.
00:40:49
Speaker
Like, and if, like, for example, April, if you would call me and you would say like, oh my gosh, I made this huge mistake and this is what happened.
00:40:58
Speaker
I would never think bad about that.
00:41:00
Speaker
I'd be like, oh my God, that's terrible.
00:41:01
Speaker
How can I help you fix it?
00:41:02
Speaker
How can we make sure it doesn't happen again?
00:41:05
Speaker
And I would hang up the phone and not think twice about it.
00:41:08
Speaker
I wouldn't never be stewing like April.
00:41:11
Speaker
Meanwhile, April is like... I would never think twice about it.
00:41:18
Speaker
I'm just like, yeah, okay, thanks for letting me know.
00:41:21
Speaker
This is what we're going to do to fix it.
00:41:23
Speaker
But I don't give myself that same grace.
00:41:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:29
Speaker
It is hard.
00:41:29
Speaker
You have high expectations.
00:41:30
Speaker
Taking your own advice.
00:41:32
Speaker
And so for 2025, for me, it's really been about like
00:41:36
Speaker
stepping back and try to give myself like the same grace that I give others yeah and it's like I could make a tiny mistake that nobody even noticed that just like I noticed or like Mihiro Tony could call me and be like did you do this yet and I'd be like oh crap I forgot yeah I will think about that for three days oh yeah me too because you because you think they're thinking about you
00:42:00
Speaker
for 30 days but they're not i don't think that about other people that's the truth i mean like that's the insanity of it right but you do you ruminate and you're like everybody's talking about me everybody's down there's already an email out i'm not part of the email i'm being fired it's done i gotta get myself in traffic i gotta go gotta look for another job it all happens in like 12 hours yeah
00:42:19
Speaker
My latest thing is like I, so I, you know, like you guys know, we've built a team of APP leads that I work with.
00:42:25
Speaker
And so they have, they're managing, right?
00:42:27
Speaker
Like the site to site stuff.
00:42:28
Speaker
And so my to-do list is like getting done.
00:42:31
Speaker
And I'm like,
00:42:32
Speaker
this is really weird.
00:42:33
Speaker
Like, what am I missing?
00:42:34
Speaker
Like, I feel like I'm like missing stuff because I'm like actually getting my stuff done.
00:42:38
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:42:38
Speaker
Like, it's not, I'm like a mile long.
00:42:40
Speaker
I'm getting fired.
00:42:41
Speaker
Cause I don't have a to-do list.
00:42:42
Speaker
Just no, just kidding.
00:42:46
Speaker
I like that perspective.
00:42:48
Speaker
Cause there's times I felt that I'm,
00:42:51
Speaker
Like, I really do feel like a stranger in some of these spaces sometimes.
00:42:56
Speaker
And I wonder for you, Tiffany, like what your experience has been, how would, if you could like just take a magic wand and remove like one barrier for your teams that may make people feel like outsiders, because I think we've all felt like outsiders.
00:43:10
Speaker
That's, that's imposter syndrome, right?
00:43:11
Speaker
Like we just don't feel like we belong here, but if you could just take one barrier away, what would that barrier be?
Feeling Like an Outsider: Wine Knowledge
00:43:19
Speaker
Self-doubt.
00:43:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:21
Speaker
I like that.
00:43:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:24
Speaker
I mean, there definitely are, like, real barriers and real challenges.
00:43:28
Speaker
I was going to say, are there other barriers?
00:43:30
Speaker
Like, what's a barrier we could do as an org or as a leader to change people who feel like they don't fit in those spaces?
00:43:40
Speaker
Okay, this is going to be really stupid.
00:43:41
Speaker
This is my, like, really stupid thing.
00:43:43
Speaker
Here we go, self-doubt.
00:43:44
Speaker
You just did it.
00:43:44
Speaker
This is my self-doubt.
00:43:46
Speaker
So, I don't think I've talked about this at another time and place before, but...
00:43:52
Speaker
I grew up in a family who drank like Miller Genuine Draft, right?
00:43:56
Speaker
That was like the fancy, like we're going out tonight.
00:44:00
Speaker
We're getting a steak and we're going to splurge and have a steak in a Miller Genuine Draft.
00:44:08
Speaker
Still to this day, I couldn't tell you a single thing about wine, how to order wine.
00:44:12
Speaker
I don't know what the difference is between red wine and white wine.
00:44:16
Speaker
or whatever kinds of wines there are.
00:44:20
Speaker
So if times that were at dinners or different things, if people offer a wine selection, I'll just have water.
00:44:29
Speaker
Because I have no idea.
00:44:31
Speaker
Not because you don't want to try wine.
00:44:33
Speaker
Somebody might ask me to smell it.
00:44:35
Speaker
I know.
00:44:36
Speaker
I'd be like, what do you think about that Chardonnay?
00:44:39
Speaker
And I'm like, I have no idea.
00:44:41
Speaker
That's pretty.
00:44:41
Speaker
No idea.
00:44:42
Speaker
I'm like, what is that?
00:44:43
Speaker
What you're drinking?
00:44:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:44:51
Speaker
So I know it's, that's so silly.
00:44:55
Speaker
I still to this day.
00:44:58
Speaker
And just like, man, people, if you're going to do something like that, like have a non-wine option.
00:45:03
Speaker
But you do, but it's an outsider thing.
00:45:05
Speaker
So you're talking about like, if you bring that into workspaces and you already feel like an outsider, it's like, I mean, it's kind of that silly, but it is that real where you're like, I don't even know.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:17
Speaker
I remember being in a dinner years ago.
00:45:21
Speaker
And a leader asking me what my favorite white wine was.
00:45:26
Speaker
And I was just like, I have no idea what you're talking about.
00:45:30
Speaker
Is it white?
00:45:31
Speaker
Is it water?
00:45:32
Speaker
Is Boone's Farm white wine?
00:45:36
Speaker
I'm not for sure.
00:45:37
Speaker
I don't think we laughed this hard.
Understanding Organizational Structures
00:45:46
Speaker
It's funny because it's true.
00:45:50
Speaker
That's the craziest part.
00:45:53
Speaker
It's like Tiffany, it's like the first time I met leadership and I didn't know who a certain leader was in my organization and I asked her what she did.
00:46:05
Speaker
And I was so embarrassed.
00:46:06
Speaker
It was my first leadership role.
00:46:08
Speaker
I'm like with all the higher ups of sound and I shake her hand and I'm like, hi, I'm Alicia.
00:46:14
Speaker
I'm like, what do you do?
00:46:16
Speaker
She's like, I'm.
00:46:17
Speaker
I'm the president.
00:46:18
Speaker
I was like, oh, like, oh God, white wine, please.
00:46:27
Speaker
I think that happens too.
00:46:28
Speaker
Like with all the mnemonic, like all the, you know, little abbreviations that we have for things.
00:46:32
Speaker
Like, I mean, we rambled off a ton of them earlier talking about your role, Stephanie.
00:46:35
Speaker
And I think people come in and.
00:46:37
Speaker
are on a call and you're talking, you know, we talk about something and we use an abbreviation and they're like, what?
00:46:41
Speaker
Like, but then, you know, you don't want to like ask on the call, like, what does that mean?
00:46:44
Speaker
So you're like, you know, quickly Googling what that could stand for.
00:46:49
Speaker
You have to start asking is what I learned.
00:46:51
Speaker
And I would, but, but let me not say like, I was an expert there.
00:46:54
Speaker
I was just like one day and it took me a couple of years.
00:46:58
Speaker
At least I knew my audience that they wouldn't be like, she's completely,
00:47:02
Speaker
Wacko.
00:47:02
Speaker
But I'm like, what does that mean?
00:47:04
Speaker
I've never heard of that before.
00:47:05
Speaker
It is hard to keep up with, especially all these complex regional structures.
00:47:11
Speaker
It's hard to keep up with.
00:47:13
Speaker
You guys probably feel like this too.
00:47:15
Speaker
I don't have an accounting or finance background.
00:47:18
Speaker
Me neither.
00:47:19
Speaker
And like, first of all, our finance and accounting team at Sound is so amazing.
00:47:24
Speaker
Like those teams are so great to work with.
00:47:28
Speaker
But they'll crack up when I'm on the calls with them and they start talking.
00:47:31
Speaker
I'm like, you're getting to accounting.
00:47:32
Speaker
Like, I don't you're saying words.
00:47:34
Speaker
I'm like Googling words.
00:47:36
Speaker
Like, what does this even mean?
00:47:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:38
Speaker
And just because I think so fundamentally, we don't, we can get to the same spot, but I just think so fundamentally different than they do.
00:47:46
Speaker
And they're like, well, you gotta, you know, reverse the accrual to blah, blah, blah.
00:47:51
Speaker
And I'm just like, I don't like, can you just make that number say five?
00:47:56
Speaker
Get me there.
00:47:58
Speaker
Line math, line math.
00:47:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:01
Speaker
No, that doesn't work like that.
00:48:02
Speaker
I'm like, dang it.
00:48:03
Speaker
I didn't study new math.
00:48:06
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:48:07
Speaker
all right well tiffany it was great to have you back um and any like parting advice for our listeners as we think about imposter syndrome and and how they can cope if they do have it or for leaders i think or leaders yeah how do they manage their team so they don't feel that i i think it's like open being open being transparent for leaders for
00:48:33
Speaker
Showing up authentically in a space with your people every single day.
00:48:38
Speaker
And I think if you're feeling those things, it's really about like leaning on people you can trust.
00:48:43
Speaker
And the other thing I've really noticed and leaned into is when I start to feel really disconnected and there are times where.
00:48:52
Speaker
Just, you know, I'm in a series of meetings for days and it's, you know, project meetings and I'm feeling just really disconnected from the bedside.
00:49:00
Speaker
The thing I love to do the most, the most of you, both of you probably know this about me and most people work with me is I love to work on staffing models, like for fun.
00:49:11
Speaker
And for, I know, it's crazy.
00:49:18
Speaker
So when I start to feel really just disconnected, I will pick a program that I feel like to really disconnected and like look at their encounters and their productivity by shift and think like, oh man, if you could move your swing up two hours, it's going to really help your nocturnist a lot better.
00:49:36
Speaker
And then your day APP could maybe then capture a couple more encounters to really decompress the, you know, the day team, like,
00:49:45
Speaker
So for me, it's recognizing that when I'm feeling super disconnected is going back to the things I love.
00:49:52
Speaker
And so if the operators or any physician leader get an email from me and say like, hey, I've just been looking at this program and I have an idea because I'm looking to add value somewhere.
00:50:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:08
Speaker
Well, you go back to your comfort zone kind of, right?
00:50:10
Speaker
Like you go back where you're comfortable.
00:50:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:13
Speaker
To settle back in.
00:50:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:14
Speaker
I think what's interesting about that comment to those that when we talked about in the beginning of the episode around like how distant leadership traditionally has felt, at least in certain spaces I've been in.
00:50:28
Speaker
April, I don't know about you, but.
00:50:31
Speaker
it always felt like kind of, again, the us and them.
00:50:34
Speaker
And it is interesting when you say that, because I think of that, I like immediately put myself in a clinician mind state and thought, if I got an email from Tiffany, I think I was doing something wrong immediately.
00:50:46
Speaker
Like not, but not that you were coming from a place where you're actually like, I've been here and I like, now I'm going to kind of
00:50:53
Speaker
this is my therapy because I want to see you do better.
00:50:56
Speaker
It doesn't always translate, you know, through an email that way.
00:50:59
Speaker
And I, that is, and it's kind of transformative change because there's not a lot of leaders, at least that I've experienced,
00:51:06
Speaker
that are like that because it's usually like I have my job to do so I have to meet these markers so I got to like push on my team and it's like I I I instead of looking at how can I help make them or us better as a team do you know what I mean like I I think that's like an just interesting but it's also going to probably be a little bit of a barrier because people I'm sure aren't used to a leader like you
00:51:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:30
Speaker
Well, if you did something wrong, I wouldn't put it in email.
00:51:33
Speaker
I'd probably pick up the phone and call you.
00:51:36
Speaker
So that 8am call from Tiffany is when your heart drops.
00:51:41
Speaker
When you see somebody, you're like, I've never got an email.
00:51:46
Speaker
I have one person that when they call me, I go,
00:51:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:51:49
Speaker
But you're that person now.
00:51:52
Speaker
That's the craziest part.
00:51:53
Speaker
And that is like the irony.
00:51:55
Speaker
We treat our leaders as if they're not human.
00:51:59
Speaker
You used to be like the RDO that was looking.
00:52:03
Speaker
Now people are looking up like, oh, crap.
00:52:05
Speaker
Like you are that person that gives you some angst.
00:52:10
Speaker
I like that you're changing that.
00:52:12
Speaker
I love this.
00:52:12
Speaker
I love this conversation.
00:52:13
Speaker
I'm glad we did this, April.
00:52:15
Speaker
Yeah, me too.
00:52:15
Speaker
Well, and one thing I was thinking too is just from a leadership perspective of what we can do.
00:52:20
Speaker
Like I worked with a leader one time who, you know, we have like one-on-ones every other week or even weekly, I think it was.
00:52:26
Speaker
And they said to me,
00:52:28
Speaker
Every call we're spending the first five minutes talking about non-work things, which to me at first was a very foreign thing.
00:52:35
Speaker
Like I was like, but I have my list and I like, you know, my things, but I've like carried that on to like, you know, the people that I now work with that the team and, um,
00:52:45
Speaker
And I do think it's, it creates that sense of comfort for them and let them do see you as a person, right?
00:52:51
Speaker
Cause we're not only talking about them, like they'll ask me questions about my kids and whatever.
00:52:56
Speaker
So we get to know each other.
00:52:57
Speaker
So then, you know, if they're struggling or they need help or something, they're more willing to call me, I think, because I do, you probably do seem a little more approachable.
00:53:05
Speaker
So yeah, a little word of advice for leaders that are listening.
00:53:08
Speaker
You know, if you're not already doing that, to try to do something like that so that you create that space for them.
00:53:13
Speaker
Just like, you know, other things that we experience where leaders come in at certain levels and they don't know the org below them necessarily.
00:53:23
Speaker
But so it's not as relatable, but the way we've come up and maybe Tiffany, the way you've come up, you know, every role and kind of every process.
00:53:32
Speaker
And then people, I don't know, you can just become a little bit more relatable there.
00:53:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:37
Speaker
That's hard.
00:53:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:39
Speaker
There's a, I do say the thing I do struggle with sometimes is I know a lot of people in the organization because I've been here a long time and I've been in a lot of different levels.
00:53:48
Speaker
And so I know a lot of the coordinators and a lot of the managers and a lot of the administrators.
00:53:53
Speaker
So I'll just email them directly.
00:53:56
Speaker
So I'll just drop an email to one of them and be like, Hey, I was looking at this, like what's going on here.
00:54:02
Speaker
And I'll forget to loop in their boss.
00:54:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:06
Speaker
There is also a bad thing to that sometimes where I'm like, oh, shoot.
00:54:10
Speaker
Like, I don't want to make it too bureaucratic.
00:54:12
Speaker
But sometimes I'm asking because I'm trying to test out my theory.
00:54:15
Speaker
Like, am I wrong?
00:54:16
Speaker
Am I reading this incorrectly?
00:54:17
Speaker
Is the data coming over wrong?
00:54:19
Speaker
Or?
00:54:20
Speaker
But yeah, it can definitely be.
00:54:22
Speaker
I've always been like that.
00:54:24
Speaker
And I'm very blessed that I think Mihir and Tony are very much like that.
00:54:28
Speaker
Like, I'm never going to call somebody.
00:54:32
Speaker
I would never call somebody just to say, I'm going to tell you about a person who reports to somebody who reports to somebody who reports to you.
00:54:40
Speaker
Can you ask them to do this for me?
00:54:41
Speaker
Telephone game.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:44
Speaker
I was going to call the person.
00:54:45
Speaker
I would never call Mehir and say, Mehir, can you get April to do this?
00:54:50
Speaker
I would just call April directly.
00:54:53
Speaker
Right.
00:54:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:56
Speaker
It's easier for me.
00:54:57
Speaker
It's more efficient for me.
00:54:58
Speaker
But sometimes it is challenging for people to live in that sort of environment.
00:55:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:02
Speaker
Well, maybe imposter syndrome is a closing thought.
00:55:06
Speaker
But maybe imposter syndrome is half...
00:55:10
Speaker
the individual and half the org or the leader that creates an environment for it.
Leadership's Role in Managing Imposter Syndrome
00:55:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:19
Speaker
Till next March.
00:55:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:23
Speaker
See you next March.
00:55:25
Speaker
Well, Tiffany, in all seriousness, it was great having you.
00:55:28
Speaker
So thanks for coming back.
00:55:29
Speaker
I haven't laughed this hard on a Monday, even.
00:55:30
Speaker
Always a good discussion with you.
00:55:31
Speaker
I know.
00:55:34
Speaker
And to our listeners, thank you again for joining us for another episode.
00:55:37
Speaker
And, you know, please listen to us on any platform that you listen to your podcast on.
00:55:42
Speaker
We're on Spotify, SoundCloud, Apple.
00:55:44
Speaker
Please subscribe.
00:55:46
Speaker
But if you do have any suggestions or comments or ideas for us, you can reach us at our email, which is oncallpodcasts.com.
00:55:54
Speaker
You can also find us on Instagram at On Call with April and Alicia.
00:55:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:58
Speaker
Yep.
00:55:59
Speaker
And until next time you guys stay well and we will stay on call and Tiffany will see you in March.
00:56:04
Speaker
Bye everyone.
00:56:05
Speaker
Bye everybody.
00:56:06
Speaker
Bye.