Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Tunnel Engineering Breakthroughs: Inside Toulouse's Metro Line C Expansion
53 Plays1 month ago
Join Jason and Carlos in this episode of The Off Site Podcast as they explore three new topics from the world of construction:
🚇 Toulouse Metro Line C Expansion: A €3.4 billion project using innovative variable density tunnel boring machines to create a 27km line with 21 stations, combining underground tunnels and elevated viaduct sections scheduled for completion by 2028.
💻 Autodesk's Restructuring: The tech giant lays off 1,350 employees (9%) as it shifts from a sales-led approach to a self-serve model, focusing on cloud, AI and core software in response to increasing market competition.
🏗️ Software and Competitive Advantage: The hosts debate whether construction software provides real competitive advantage when widely adopted across the industry, or if it simply becomes a necessary "tax" for staying in the game. Key Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
03:20 - Toulouse Metro Project
14:30 - Autodesk Restructuring
24:32 - Software & Competitive Advantage
Check out the Off Site newsletter here
Follow Carlos on Linkedin | Follow Jason on Linkedin | Check out Aphex
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
um Probably like super important as well, given the size of the tunnels. I think we looked at it was like an eight and a half meter bore tunnel. Massive. Which is like, a which is, you know, for for anyone that's like, if we use the London Underground example, if you've been on one of the old ones where you can feel like you can't you can't like swing a cat in that tunnel.
00:00:17
Speaker
yeah This is a is ah is a big gear. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Eight meter diameter is massive.
Introduction to Podcast & Main Topics
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome back to the Offsite Podcast. I am Jason Lansini and I'm joined once again by Carlos Cavallo. Today we have like three super interesting things that we we're going talk about driven by recent
Toulouse Line C Metro Expansion
00:00:43
Speaker
news. So first thing we're going to kick off a conversation about, let's say the like lesser known ah French Metro project underway in Toulouse, the Line C expansion. there's a bunch of interesting things to look at in terms of how that's being built.
00:00:57
Speaker
Next, we're going to circle around to the recent and unfortunate news of Autodesk construction design giant laying off 1,350 employees as part of a restructuring effort.
00:01:11
Speaker
ah So if you've been on LinkedIn at any point in the last week or two, you would have seen this news. And then finally, we're going to on the topic of LinkedIn, we're going to look at a post ah that was...
00:01:26
Speaker
that was put up recently which asked the question of whether the majority of construction contractors using the same software offers any real competitive advantage vis-a-vis is software worth anything at all if everyone's using it.
00:01:40
Speaker
So, spicy content there carl tire yeah pretty good thanks pretty good um i uh did some deep engineering research this week which i'm sure will uh impress you but um ah don't know if you caught the news uh recently but there's an organization that has invented they call it sugarcrete and it's basically making blocks to build houses um i think they did a ah test run in india um using the byproduct of sugar production which is something called
00:02:12
Speaker
Cliff or pith? Sorry, pith, which I had actually never heard of before. And it's basically useless. Digging into it slightly, there's like hundreds of millions of metric tons of this stuff being produced and thrown away each year. And now they're able to build homes from it. So quite interesting to be able to build houses out of the byproducts of sugar.
00:02:33
Speaker
So first of all, you did say, i did a bunch of engineering research and then went straight into your sugar concrete. The others are about TBMs, so it's not all sugar.
00:02:45
Speaker
um no apart from the fact that that does sound like people are building houses out of those tiny little cubes that you get when you go to a restaurant like a fancy restaurant to go into your team. As a great grandson of sugar cane farmers, I can vouch that there is a lot of waste stuff that does get generated that isn't the, let's say, sugar.
00:03:07
Speaker
And there are elements of it which traditionally were just burnt, which isn't so good for the environment. Yeah, for sure. using it to build some houses. Yeah, why not?
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, why not? All right, let's go straight in off the bat.
Innovative Construction Materials
00:03:24
Speaker
So we last week talked at length about the Paris Metro project. And a lot of the research that like led us to look at the Toulouse Metro project as well. And there were a bunch of things about it that were just really intriguing and interesting. So To give some context and background before we kind of dive into some of the more engineering construction elements of interest.
00:03:50
Speaker
For those that don't know, is Solus' third Metro line expansion. In terms of scale, it's 27-kilometer long line um that kind of runs, oh, I'm so bad at like northwest, east, south.
00:04:06
Speaker
Northwest to Southeast. It runs from, yeah, it runs from like the West cuts across and then like hooks around through kind of like the center of town and then kind of like out to the Southeast.
00:04:17
Speaker
I think I got that right. um So it's, yeah, it's got 21 stations. It started way back in 2022, back. It started a few years ago in 2022 due to open in 2028.
00:04:28
Speaker
A relatively modest budget given the scope of 3.4 billion euros. And it really has a couple of, like only a couple of interactions with the existing metro system in terms of interchanges, but largely a brand new station, a line with these 21 new stations.
00:04:46
Speaker
So it's it is like a quite an interesting project that I guess Carlos with your QS hat on you would have been immediately intrigued at the like the cost to scope ratio here. And the yeah relatively short timeline. I think it's everything in eight years.
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, yeah, definitely for sure. It's also so of the scope itself. There's, of the 27 kilometers, about 22 kilometers is underground tunneled sections.
00:05:16
Speaker
In that section, there were, I think, five TBMs planned for the construction scope. And currently today, as we speak, there are, think, three currently operational. I think they're supposed to break through in late 2025.
00:05:29
Speaker
In terms of, we talked last week of Paris Metro, the depth of some of the stations, these stations aren't as deep, but there are 17 stations on that 22-kilometer underground section. There are 17 underground stations being built in this scope, which, again, is no mean feat.
00:05:45
Speaker
And then there is a 5-kilometer elevated section that is running through a viaduct. And on that section, there are four elevated stations on the viaduct. So it's like ah definitely a mixed scope of both tunneled and underground stations with boxes and elevated viaduct.
00:06:05
Speaker
A bunch of things to double click into here. Anything that was like the most interesting
Advanced Engineering Techniques
00:06:10
Speaker
for you? Yeah. So the, um, the tunneling itself. So I think it was, yeah, it was like 80% is underground out of the 27 kilometers, but I, uh, I had a little nerd out on the TBMs being used. So i don't know if you've heard variable density tunnel boring machines before, but yeah I think they're the ones that like the density is like a bit, it varies kind of along the way.
00:06:32
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, moving on to the next topic. um So a bit of backstory, because if you like me, you don't know that much about tunnel boring machines, but a massive part to play, obviously, is the ground conditions that you're actually operating in. And I think from like quite a tough clay to something very soft like sand. And this stretch is quite varied along the routes. And they're using these, what they call variable density TBMs, which are only used on a few projects in the world.
00:07:01
Speaker
And they've kind of got these different modes based on the the the ground that you're in. They have something called this um earth pressure balance mode. So they're actually using the ground that they're excavating to apply pressure to the front to make sure that everything is sort of staying tight as you move. And then there's a bit of technology that uses a, oh, I just forgot the word for it. A screw conveyor, like a piling machine to pull this coil out at the rate that they should to maintain the pressure.
00:07:30
Speaker
To maintain pressure, yeah. Whereas it also has something ah like ah they call it this mixed shield mode where they're pulling in like a bentonite, which is like a kind of dense slurry you might see for things like D-walls to maintain the pressure because it's like maybe a softer material that they can't actually use to maintain the pressure on the face of the ah the TBM. So yeah, there's um there's different modes based on the type of uh materials that you're in without having to switch out the tbm or doing a thing it's like a mechanical shift in in how it operates probably like super important as well given the size of these tunnels i think we looked at it was like an eight and a half meter bore tunnel massive which is like a which is you know for for anyone that's like if we use the london underground example if you've been on one of the old ones where you can feel like you can't you can't like swing a cat in that tunnel um This is a is ah this a big gear.
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, eight meter diameter is massive. Yeah, massive. So yeah, it's ah it's ah it's a sizable bit of gear. Again, makes the like cost of it seem really good value.
00:08:34
Speaker
The thing that was interesting to me was the viaduct section. And the reason was ah that I had i'd gone quite deep on a project. So in in Perth, in Western Australia, at the moment, there's a major infrastructure project, the biggest in the state's history called ah Metronet.
00:08:51
Speaker
And they're building a whole bunch of new train lines. ah And one of the sections of the project involves an 18 month shutdown of an active rail line and the ripping out of that rail line and effectively building a five kilometer elevated viaduct that facilitates the removal of level crossings along that route. So the goal is like removing level crossings, which is why they're elevating the the rail route.
00:09:17
Speaker
What's interesting is it's like a very similar scope, overall length, et cetera. That project has, they've managed to go woe to go in like under 18 months. doing a similar scope of elevated viaduct.
00:09:30
Speaker
And one of the things that they did was took like a ah bunch of hues of like offsite manufacturing, prefab, focusing on kind of like a kit of parts and Lego, the idea of like giant Lego pieces,
00:09:45
Speaker
you know, maybe and not having the optimized design element for each specific scenario, but having it so that they're all the same. And it has proved that the team there on that section of the project has, yeah, proved to do amazing things ah when, like, the simplicity of what's being put together is, like, maximized.
00:10:07
Speaker
Kind of relates to some of the things we were talking about around like learning curves and stuff like that from from a few weeks ago with regards to Hinkley Point C. So it'd be interesting to see if similar like learnings are taken forward.
00:10:21
Speaker
and I don't know if they kind of cross the world to to France in the same kind of timeframe, but ah yeah, be I'd be particularly interested to see how this FireDark section gets built and how long it takes.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of substantial. Quite substantial. I think it's a five kilometer section on the, uh, it's exactly the same length. Yeah. It's exactly the same length as the Metro net one.
00:10:44
Speaker
Putting your, um, I'm a huge concrete nerd hat on. Um, some of the spans of 40 meters. Is that quite substantial for a viaduct? The train itself, the actual like rail, I I'm guessing I haven't double checked, but I'm guessing the trains aren't super long.
00:11:01
Speaker
You could guess that really from the price, because if you're building major stations underground, you're not doing 21 stations. So yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'm guessing that they're not very long, which is why the station, the boxes are probably smaller and why the price is lower, as you said.
00:11:15
Speaker
So I'm guessing they're fairly lightweight. 40 meters is very long if you were talking like ah road traffic and that sort of thing on a bridge. I think it's doable. I don't know if it's like post-tensioned or pre-stressed or anything, but no, 40 meters doable. yeah And I've got no concrete nerd facts to add to that.
00:11:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm ah imagining something closer to like the DLR here ah in terms of trains, relatively lightweight, not 1500 people.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah. you You want to maximize the span because obviously you the but time of residential areas say the more peers you have, yeah, the the the less usable the space underneath becomes.
Contract Management Strategies
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, so super interesting project. The other thing that we should loop back to at a future conversation with this project is the way that they've broken up the contracts. There was is an interesting thing that we didn't cover last week from Paris Metro, where um one of the learnings from a prior section of Paris Metro project was that they had um they had in a prior set of contracts awarded lots of smaller contracts.
00:12:24
Speaker
And then in the most recent section, there was kind of like a government learning paper that was like, ah you're better off basically letting and a smaller number of very big contracts Is that the learnings and the repeated?
00:12:37
Speaker
No, actually, it was just like, we don't want to manage the interfaces um is kind of the... Well, the cost of interface is huge, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's worth actually double clicking on this in a future conversation because i have a view that the interface doesn't go away. You're just getting someone else to manage it.
00:12:55
Speaker
um Yeah. So I'm thinking of writing something about this. It doesn't go away. This is a conversation another time. But yeah, it's ah yeah a claims thing, isn't it? that ah In terms of cost. Yeah, but the the complexity is still there. So even though you don't like see it in like claims or whatever, I think it gets priced into the contract value.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. hundred So I think. I'm gonna write something about this on LinkedIn, but yeah, we should definitely circle back to it. But it's interesting that on this project they have, um it's a couple of big, basically it's like a handful of big contracts as well.
00:13:29
Speaker
It doesn't have the same degree of complexity. Nice triggering post on LinkedIn incoming. I think there's a sweet spot as well. I'm like stuck on this topic now, but I think there's a sweet spot because like too many interfaces. Yeah, I think there's a lot of learning. We'll circle back to this.
00:13:44
Speaker
Stay tuned. I wonder know if ah some could check. I'm trying to get off the topic in the car. My final comment is um yeah but you when you slice and dice a contract into subcontract packages, I'm not aware of commercial procurement teams thinking about slicing it based on interfaces. They slice it based on the type of works they're delivering. That'd be quite interesting. Yeah, they just and then you just put the line in the contract that says, you shall coordinate your works with other contractors. Then it's the problem is actually solved. So that's fine.
00:14:11
Speaker
ah You're welcome. Yeah, that's the whole, yeah, that's the topic for future episode for sure. So yeah, what it's a super interesting project. Very keen to see how it progresses, works ongoing till 2027, 2028. So again, anyone listening wants a chance to move to France, cool project.
Autodesk Layoffs & Strategic Shifts
00:14:30
Speaker
Okay, so Autodesk. Everywhere on LinkedIn has been recruiters talking about, well, mainly recruiters, but sometimes employees of what it is talking about a large scale layoff that the company recently announced.
00:14:45
Speaker
1,350 employees, approximately 9% of the workforce was announced to be laid off. it is It is reported to be primarily focusing on sales, marketing, and admin roles across the business, so not on a specific division. Limited on ah any R&D teams, they have specifically said they're like doubling and trebling down in AI,
00:15:10
Speaker
cloud and and core software. the Although announcements seem to like try to say otherwise, um one of the underlying factors here is that the company itself has an activist investor shareholder, Starboard Value, ah who has been agitating for removing costs from the business.
00:15:32
Speaker
Even though everyone says it's got nothing to do with that, that probably has something to do with it. I'd be interested think, Carlos, what do you think this means for Autodesk around their strategy, around what they're seeing in the marketplace?
00:15:46
Speaker
And yeah, what's what's going on under the hood here? Obviously there's various articles and interviews and things floating around to try to piece that together. You get a sense and there's like some direct information around this transition towards cloud, this transition towards AI, the narrative that we're seeing with most of these companies at the moment, they're going through this.
00:16:06
Speaker
I think they're, for me, I think they're in a bit of protection mode. Autodesk has always been the only vendor in the design and software space. Like it's, it's It's been not only the first name, but pretty much the only name on the list in a significant way for a long time. So in transitioning to cloud and what sounds like trying to push sales, marketing and other aspects, reduce the cost to optimize their delivery and and obviously increase revenue and build in AI feels like a play to stay relevant in the market.
00:16:38
Speaker
ah compete with startups in a very congested space because they're not the only name in the bucket anymore. And not just Bentley, there's a lot of new startups um kind of trying to compete in the space. So I think they're bootstrapping, shifting towards cloud and AI to try and hold on to this market.
00:16:57
Speaker
position that they have as the leader. And obviously they're trying to tie in contractors into long term agreements to protect their foothold. And when you say startups, it's probably worth noting that in the behind the scenes here, there's also some specific names. So interestingly, the former CEO of Autodesk has recently announced $46 million dollars funding round for a somewhat competitive product ah called Motive that had been in stealth mode for some period of time. We talked about Amar and his 12 rules for building software in the past.
00:17:37
Speaker
ah So yeah, I think to put another way, are you saying they're in like panic mode? I think to an extent. I think a company that this is that big, been in the game for that long, the market's shifting. And when you introduce AI, the rate of change is accelerated so fast that it will cause these organizations to panic. It's not like this these incremental changes over long periods of time. Things are changing quite quickly.
00:17:59
Speaker
Yeah, I would guess that there's a bit of a panic internally and this is shields up protection mode, keep our customers, secure our customers into long-term agreements and to move into the space that you see as the the future in ah in a quicker way.
00:18:13
Speaker
The thing that I took away that was really interesting is that this does point to a A lot of the news and and what they've announced points to a ah kind of like a tech forward self-serve buying model um and a lot of the reduction in people away from like a sales led approach.
00:18:33
Speaker
And a huge reseller market too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is like interestingly consistent with, Innate recently announced this like two days ago. We're recording this on the 6th of March, two days ago, or even a day ago, Innate announced that they're doing a like self-serve purchasing approach.
00:18:51
Speaker
What's interesting is the the legacy players in this space like Autodesk and Innate have had a sales-led, reseller, partner-led selling approach since inception.
00:19:03
Speaker
That has a kind of, ah let's call it like a, oh yeah, let's let's go let's go hard. It has like a vicious cycle of of what it means, um which is like you end up with like a complex, you you get like a complex sale process that needs like large teams of salespeople to navigate the process. The large teams has like a high cost to the business um that they have to fund.
00:19:27
Speaker
Then the high cost basically means that it becomes expensive software. um And that the way that you sell has to kind of optimize towards maximizing value extraction from your customer.
00:19:40
Speaker
So you end up with these large sales teams that result in the need for the whole business to kind of make sense. to maximize the price, maximize value extraction from their customer.
00:19:52
Speaker
And the way that you maximize that is through a complex sales process where you don't show pricing. You go through this kind of like value discovery process and you maximize value extraction, which then like feeds on itself.
00:20:05
Speaker
And so the idea of just showing people what the price is, letting people buy it, letting people try it is obviously that's like where a lot of the rest of the world is in terms of modern software today. But um that's like a full,
00:20:18
Speaker
180 on the way a business operates. So I don't think it's like something you can just like dip your toe into. If like, if your go to market approach is kind of like, don't know, what's the best analogy? It's like the legs of a company. So they're doing like a legs transplant of the company. yeah It's not, it's not a small thing, you know?
00:20:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting though, because we I sort of described their core products as this thing that's been around for a long time. But that's actually really advantageous if you want to shift to like direct billing and like onboarding things like that. Because the hardest thing about selling and onboarding new software is like the the list of unknowns to the customer.
00:20:57
Speaker
The best, if they can just transition their tools all to cloud, direct billing or selling is really easy because it's like, it's AutoCAD. You don't need, the market understands the tool and there's huge internal teams and contractors that will run internal trading and and everyone, it's built into the ecosystem.
00:21:12
Speaker
So they can nail the direct billing, reduce that cost. There isn't this huge education piece that comes with it. And then they can just upsell and uplift features and aspects to that core thing that's already been sold in a relatively sort of automated way.
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah, what was interesting to me is I did some research into the like the split of like where revenue comes from inside Autodesk because I went into the thought process, like I think you're kind of alluding to, that like auto AutoCAD's the majority of the business. Yeah, and that and Revit, I think, are the main issue, isn't it? Yeah, unless and I triple-check these numbers, so I welcome anyone that thinks these are incorrect to correct me.
00:21:50
Speaker
The numbers that I pulled shows that AutoCAD revenue is about $1.5 billion in 2024, which is 23% of total total revenue.
00:22:02
Speaker
And it's growing at 8% year on year. And the AECO, which includes construction, architecture, engineering, which is not... which
00:22:17
Speaker
build and the ACC, Autodesk Construction Cloud product, that is 3.2 billion. So it's 40% of revenue. Wow. And that's growing at 15% year on year.
00:22:28
Speaker
The interesting thing you said about um AutoCAD growing 8% a year is I've heard 8% as a number bounced a couple of times recently, which is the inflationary clause in some major software vendors' contracts. So i wonder if it's even growing. It's just the prices. Oh, yeah. No, I thought you going to say something even different. I thought you were going say it's growing 8% year on year, but prices are going up 15% or something. No, no, they are. Yeah.
00:22:51
Speaker
That's and the specific number I've heard. So I wonder if they're just flat on licenses and it's just inflationary. That would make sense. that like The marketplace of startups trying to eat some of that pie is enormous. there's like a new one every two days, i feel it feels like. So it must be.
00:23:08
Speaker
It must be. And that must be what is driving part of this response. But this is like, if the model is like changing the go-to-market strategy across the business, that is like a 20-something, I don't know how old the the company is, I'm guessing.
00:23:20
Speaker
Like, yeah, I would love a better analogy than a legs transplant, but it feels like a legs transplant. um I don't know if anyone's successfully pulled off a legs transplant, but ah it feels like a bold strategy.
00:23:33
Speaker
Bold strategy, indeed. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how things move. Obviously, awful for the 1,300 people being laid off, but um I guess the strategy will emerge over time because we should see see an actual shift in what they're doing.
00:23:47
Speaker
It'll be complicated for contractors because they're losing that enterprise negotiation with the sales individuals and being fixed into cost. You would imagine that's going to be super difficult. I think that they'll probably just ah keep that for the biggest of of customers, I would say, would be my guess. I can't imagine they're going to get rid of that piece.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah. But um that's that's pure speculation guessing. Yeah, we'll see. I wonder if it spawns a whole industry of s spite businesses, if you're a Cobra Enthusiasm fan, people being laid off and then so going and joining the, like, I want to kill Autodesk startup. Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah. So that's a Curb Your Enthusiasm reference. I won't explain it. and It is funny. as if I don't. um Right.
Construction Software Debate
00:24:30
Speaker
Let's jump to third topic. So a somewhat provocative post on LinkedIn got our attention and got us talking.
00:24:39
Speaker
And I'm not saying that this will become a ah regular segment of the podcast, but the idea of like things people say on LinkedIn as a topic is interesting. Yeah. So let me, I'll briefly kind of like summarize the gist of the post that I might quote from it at times. But the post basically said, do you want to make the ah construction tech company sweat?
00:25:01
Speaker
If you do, ask them this question. How does making every contractor work exactly the same way protect what makes us unique and competitive? And the gist of it, basically, if I was to play it back is, if if if you're selling me competitive advantage or some advantage over my competitors, and the goal is that basically you'll sell this software to all of those competitors, how does it result in any competitive advantage? And just do we all end up doing the same thing and paying kind of like tax? Yeah.
00:25:32
Speaker
I'm happy to argue either side. i have a clear preference. I am somewhat biased, but obviously there's a there's ah there's what I think is a clearly right and wrong answer.
00:25:42
Speaker
But I'm happy to argue either side, Carlos, if you want to ah if you want to play out the kind of like a steel man, straw man. i just I can't get on board with the idea that you buy software for competitive bit advantage. You're buying software to stay in the game, and sometimes you're going to be first to do something that makes you slightly better.
00:25:58
Speaker
Like ah to put another... odd analogy, probably less odd than ah for replacing legs. But like Formula One, the cars are almost exactly all the same. You haven't got massive varied designs. Over time, the latest technology comes out, they all embrace it. And each season, someone's incrementally better because they pulled something new or found another way of doing something.
00:26:20
Speaker
So you need software to stay in the game. I get that if everyone is- Haven't you just described getting competitive advantage? yeah yeah but in a in a nice simple way um you bit obviously i understand the concept that if we're if if we have this level playing field of ever using the same uh software then and the market becomes more competitive and margin will be reduced because like it's it's expectation yeah there's no one that's drastically far ahead but you have to keep that software to stay in the game
00:26:51
Speaker
say Saying that, oh, we're not going to buy the software because it doesn't help us win work is is an odd one. Because if you don't do it, you're not going to be able to effectively manage that part of the business in a way that keeps you up with everyone else. So there will be exceptions to the rule. But broadly, I don't think it's a thing about it's around competitive advantage. It's around...
00:27:11
Speaker
ah fish and maybe it's can be redeffined yeah Maybe if you redefine competitive advantage, because maybe you're thinking about it in the sense of like we're bidding at work and we're competing on the bit of the work. if you brought Yeah, I'm thinking competitive in the market.
00:27:24
Speaker
like Yeah, I think if you if you broadly redefine competitive advantage of like, even if this piece of software helps us make more profit, Even if we don't win any more work, it makes us more efficient or more profit.
00:27:36
Speaker
That's more profit that we can use to invest in some other thing that makes us more competitive. So like, I think even if you more broadly define it in that sense. But if we're being more broad,
00:27:49
Speaker
it's still it's It's still the same point. If you're using the same tool as another organization to produce the same efficiencies, which is making you competitive from a revenue sense, it's not a negative thing that everyone else is doing it. If we're removing the whole competitive in the market, this is just internally. yeah Contractors making money, I'm not sure why you're going to be pissed that the next guy along is doing the same thing and also making a margin from it.
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah. This is kind of this, i don't know what the yeah the right phrase is, but it's it's an odd thing to sort of play out. Yeah, I think I agree. I think it's like ah it's it's like somewhat of you know, again, but yeah, if you let's imagine like you and I are construction or design. Let's take an example of designers, right? Just to call back to the prior topic of AutoCAD, right?
00:28:34
Speaker
You're designing with pencils and paper and drafting and draft rules and slide rules, et cetera, and I've got AutoCAD. assuming someone knows how to use the AutoCAD on my team, um I would be i'd be faster at drafting then than you and doing revisions, et cetera.
00:28:49
Speaker
And so that should result in like I could either have more margin or i could I could underbid you theoretically on jobs, which means I do have a competitive advantage over you in terms of ah like winning work and also just the the amount of margin I can make.
00:29:04
Speaker
at some point you would probably adopt AutoCAD, um at which point i am I'm in a spot where I have no more competitive advantage as a result of the AutoCAD purchase. But if I was to therefore go get rid of AutoCAD, then that's like ah like that's a ah dumb, like I'm losing, I'm basically seeding competitive advantage to you. So I think the flip side of the argument is also true. Like even if your competitors adopt it, unadopting it or getting rid of it is seeding the competitive advantage.
00:29:33
Speaker
I think the idea of like ah technological advancement and productivity advancements across the economy and world as a whole is like these incremental waves that stack on top of each other.
00:29:43
Speaker
I think with any like innovation or technological advancement, the people that adopted first get some marginal and advantage, which as ah other people start to copy and do the same diminishes. Yeah.
00:29:56
Speaker
but And ultimately you're left with maybe a technology vendor or a software vendor that is basically getting some revenue share of the benefit that they've given everyone. You know, AutoCAD is making some benefit that might be measurable on the the process or economy as a whole and that, you know, there may be value extracting some percentage of that.
00:30:16
Speaker
um And then the goal is either for the technology vendor or to use some of that money that it's making or for the or for the company that had the competitive advantage temporarily, that had a margin advantage or a profit advantage, to really keep reinvesting that in the next advancement. Like it's a continual cycle.
00:30:34
Speaker
that isn't just like adopt this piece of software and you'll win forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The post was particularly triggering because it's it's almost implying that if you're working the same way as someone else, even if it's the best in class, should you be doing that because you're not then competitive? Like sometimes there's not another option for each class of of tool or whatever we're looking at. So...
00:30:54
Speaker
Yeah, and just because, you know, i like I was racing you in Formula One, just because you have the same car doesn't mean i like I'll ditch the car and go back to the horse sort of thing. Boulge strategy. At some point, it does become a like a tax, but it's a tax in exchange for productivity improvement. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:12
Speaker
So I think it's like a, yeah, it's a pretty cynical, narrow view on what technological advancement actually looks like. And I said, I did say I was biased.
00:31:23
Speaker
Yeah. who Yeah. um But no, interesting. I think, we what do you reckon? Do we bring out the ah what did someone say on LinkedIn this week segment? Yeah.
00:31:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's always nice to vent and mock someone, but also point out a good post. So ah yeah, let's see what we get next week. Okay, that went in the direction. i wasn't This was not a mocking a thing.
00:31:45
Speaker
not but yeah Not mocking. You can say that literally the word mocking. Can we? No, no, no. Not specifically this post, but in the future, i am up for mocking when appropriate.
00:31:58
Speaker
ah Selective
Podcast Conclusion
00:32:00
Speaker
mocking. ah That's it. Discussing and then in brackets, selectively mocking LinkedIn posts. That's the for the segment. We'll work on it. Yeah. Cool.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, that was super interesting. I think the all topics, even Autodesk and the Tulles Metro, I think super interesting. So yeah, do you want to read us out? Yep, absolutely.
00:32:22
Speaker
Thank you very much, everyone, for tuning into today's show. If you did enjoy today's episode, please do you think about liking this video or following us on your chosen podcast platform. We really appreciate your support and we'll catch you all next week.
00:32:35
Speaker
Bye-bye.