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Can Poland Build Europe's Biggest Transport Hub by 2032?
35 Plays9 days ago
Join Jason and Carlos as they dive into three compelling construction topics:
🚄 Poland's €30 Billion Transport Hub: Poland's most ambitious infrastructure project, combining a new airport with 2,000km of high-speed rail - can they deliver by 2032?
🏗️ Motif vs Autodesk: Former Autodesk CEO launches cloud-based design platform to challenge the industry giant's dominance in construction software.
👷 The Strategic Corporal: How individual site leaders can make or break technology adoption on construction projects, plus the key personas that shape change.
Key Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction & 3D Printed Bridge Discussion
03:41 - Poland's Central Communications Port Project
12:06 - Motif vs Autodesk: The Design Software Battle
24:20 - Construction Project Personas & Tech Adoption
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Transcript
Introduction to the episode and topics
00:00:00
Speaker
I do think it's quite substantial. it's ah It's a scheme, it's $40 billion. dollars It's something like 10% of their GDP in one scheme. So yeah that is huge. um And if you look at the breakdown, they're spending 10 billion on an airport. They're spending nearly 20 billion on the high-speed rail.
00:00:17
Speaker
There's 600 million on roads. There's another couple of billion on other related projects around. So it is massive and it is a short timeframe. We joke about 2032, but even if they do that all in 10 years, is's it's pretty significant to the country.
00:00:32
Speaker
Yeah. um
00:00:39
Speaker
Welcome back to the Offsite Podcast. I am Jason Lanzini, joined as always by Carlos Cavallo. Today, we are diving into three, if I do say so myself, compelling topics.
00:00:51
Speaker
First up, Poland's ambitious 30 plus billion euro transport mega hub. aiming to reshape ah European connectivity, followed by Motif, a new SaaS platform founded by former Autodesk CEO, challenging the status quo and big blue Autodesk.
00:01:12
Speaker
Without black auto, they changed the logo. not Definitely not red. was never red. was blue. Is this my colorblind going from blue to red? ah Yeah, but that that's the moment to chime That's not a thing, by the way. I i' never confused you in red.
00:01:27
Speaker
The time to chime in and break the pre-read of the episode is on colors, your your' famously best topic. All right, shall I continue or do want to just sort out the reds and blues?
00:01:41
Speaker
Okay, cool. Finally, we're going to to dive into a LinkedIn post that reminded us of all the different personas on a construction project and how they interact with technology
Is the 3D-printed bridge in Spain a serious project?
00:01:52
Speaker
adoption.
00:01:52
Speaker
First, was going to say first, but second after I got that color thing out the way. ah Carl, did you spot the 3D printed bridge in Spain in the news? It's really hard to tell if the article was a bit of a joke or serious.
00:02:06
Speaker
But for anyone listening, or maybe Olu can ah share the yeah the image, there's a very sketchy looking three d printed bridge. bridge if that was in barcelona you wouldn't actually think it was that odd because there's a lot of architecture that looks like that but when you look at the buildings in the background it just looks like shit bridge in the middle it looks like a bridge made of styrofoam or like oh you know when you go to the beach have you ever done that at the beach where you make like ah you kind of like pick up wet sand and you can kind of like drizzle it to make a tower like it's like a
00:02:39
Speaker
It's like the worst grade concrete. um yeah There's a meme in that. Oh, this has gone on LinkedIn. there's a You know you're on a project, there's like the the standards for like concrete finishes.
00:02:57
Speaker
And then you get the concrete finish to come out with the big straight edge. Should we use metal shuttering? Should we use timber? No, let's use toilet roll. And yeah, there's a meme of like the concrete finisher being like, this is in spec.
00:03:13
Speaker
i Yeah, they're there with the little ruler. But but ah but anyway, um the bridge I think ever the only thing done in situ was the foundations and they lifted in a funny printed bridge, but check it out.
00:03:30
Speaker
When you see things like that, you go, I i think i think traditional methods might still have a ah bit ah bit to go yet. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Well done to them.
00:03:41
Speaker
All right.
What is Poland's CPK mega project and its goals?
00:03:42
Speaker
Diving in topic. First topic today So Poland is about to break ground on what might be allegedly, according to the advertising materials, so the boldest infrastructure project in Europe.
00:03:57
Speaker
I feel like I've seen that descriptor on like every project. But the Central Communications Port or CPK, don't ask why those words don't match up, a 30 billion euro mega hub that brings together a new international airport and a high speed rail network has been designed specifically to reshape how people move across the continent.
00:04:18
Speaker
The government are calling it the next Schiphol or Frankfurt, which to those who don't know Europe in detail, Schiphol is like a hub in and in Amsterdam or near Amsterdam.
00:04:29
Speaker
And then, well most people know where Frankfurt is, but that's a big transport hub. ah Critics call it a political fantasy. Not like the critics. um Today we'll unpack planned stakes and I guess whether Poland can pull it off.
00:04:45
Speaker
Some details. This is it's located approximately 40 kilometers southwest
Will Poland's CPK project meet its 2032 deadline?
00:04:50
Speaker
of Warsaw. ah It includes a new airport and about 2000 kilometers of high speed rail lines for speeds up to about 250 kilometers an hour The plan is that construction these timelines construction begins in 2026 and first phase operational by 2032. It's supposed to have capacity for 34 million passengers annually at launch, expanding to 100 million.
00:05:20
Speaker
And the idea is that the high-speed rail links Warsaw with other major cities within two-hour distance. I don't know. I ask what do you reckon? Is it going to start? Is it going to happen? And while this is not a controversial topic, is it going to finish in 2032?
00:05:37
Speaker
It's not going to finish in 2032. That's for sure. I'd say um the the first headline, I can't remember the wording. about, ah was it the most ambitious in Europe something like that?
00:05:48
Speaker
I do think it's quite substantial. it's ah It's a scheme, it's $40 billion. dollars It's something like 10% of their GDP in one scheme. So and yeah that is huge. um And if you look at the breakdown, they're spending 10 billion on an airport. They're spending nearly 20 billion on the high-speed rail.
00:06:06
Speaker
There's 600 million on roads. There's another couple of billion on other related projects around. So it is massive and it is a short time frame.
Why is there local opposition to the CPK project?
00:06:15
Speaker
We joke about 2032, but even if they do that all in 10 years, iss it's pretty significant for the country.
00:06:21
Speaker
yeah um But you can see why they're doing it. So basically, I think tourist numbers going up 20% a year for the last couple of years. So the footfall through the country, not just people traveling through ah Europe, but actually visiting the country to visit, the to sort of explore and see the cities is is growing massively. So I think that those tourist numbers They have to do something.
00:06:46
Speaker
So I think it's highly unlikely it won't happen. It's just yeah like how quickly
How is CPK funded and who controls it?
00:06:50
Speaker
it could happen. Yeah. Pretty mega stuff. um In terms of going back to that point you made about like it ah it is a big bet for them.
00:06:57
Speaker
The funding of it is... is apparently largely from the Polish government, they have requested some amount of funding from the EU.
00:07:09
Speaker
But like, and then there's some like debt ah in the mix as well of the funding. But, you know, we were talking offline about how the goal here is like some expansion of this 10T network, ROW network in Europe, the importance of Poland as like a hub or connector across Europe.
00:07:28
Speaker
It seems odd that it's not more EU funding given the broader goals. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see under the hood a bit with that because but because it's part of the Trans-European and network, um that obviously would unlock funding. But you wonder if there's this um like give and take on how much you let the EU control what you build based on how much funding they give you. Yeah.
00:07:51
Speaker
yeah yeah you Yeah, obviously it's going require to find information, but yeah, maybe they wanted to, if they've got the cash to do the majority of it and want to maintain control, maybe you have a lesser bit of funding from the EU in return. Yeah.
Does infrastructure spending guarantee long-term prosperity?
00:08:06
Speaker
ah in return so Yeah. But yeah, a lot of the marketing content on this kind of labels is basically an airport, but it's way more than an airport. 2000 kilometers of high speed line is a mega project in itself.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yeah. So it'd be interesting to see how it goes, especially as I think at the original start completion date was 2028. So it's only been knocked back a few years. And we should I should have mentioned, we've talked about it before, but the 10T network, what it is, is this European, it's a trans-European transport network.
00:08:37
Speaker
It is a ah network of rail, ah road and airports across the European Union. There's some, you know, these things, the numbers are never true, but like allegedly it's like a $600 billion a dollar ah infrastructure plan across the whole of Europe. But yeah, you're right. Maybe the maybe the funding is kind of like buried in the the detail.
00:09:00
Speaker
One of the things that was interesting on it, um as with, I guess, a lot of like nationally significant infrastructure is the public, the biggest fans of it, I think something like 84% in the local area voted against the thing.
00:09:18
Speaker
Do you think it's like broadly not wanted or it's just kind of like a not in my backyard? Like, I really want this just not near me. and me I'd imagine they see it as ah lots of public money spent on um infrastructure for tourists.
00:09:31
Speaker
Something like it was like 80 plus percent of um travel in Poland, like long distance travel is still by car. Yeah. If you're screaming for public services and everything else that you need as a as a country and you spend 10% of your GDP on a hub to pull tourists into Warsaw Airport, you're probably not super thrilled about that.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, I guess the the flip side of that is, I don't know if we talked about it in a previous episode, but this idea or this theory of like this multiplier effect on...
00:10:07
Speaker
on infrastructure spending. Did we talk about this previously or did I have this conversation offline? This idea that like, yeah there's this like multiple, there's in economics, there's this concept of a multiplier effect, some amount of money spent by the government has some ah larger impact on the broader economy.
00:10:25
Speaker
And so- Yeah, like someone said, HS2 will bring half, like whatever amount of money back to the economy after- Yeah, because you get like the government spends, ah maybe has a contract for a billion ah pounds. And then that ah results in some amount of subcontracts being awarded to other companies. And those companies employ people to a greater, like there's some multiplier effect bigger than the initial ah investment.
00:10:54
Speaker
And there was some studies from folks like in the UK, the OECD as well, and the World Bank that there's like this, the the base multiplier effect is like two to three X. So every dollar you're getting some like economic ah impact of two to three X and some can even go up to like five or six.
00:11:12
Speaker
And so, you know, if you're Poland, yeah, I guess you're spending, you're spending this amount on, tourists But just the project alone would have some multiplier effect, if you believe the stats.
00:11:25
Speaker
And then obviously bringing bringing tourists to the country has some other long term economic impact. Yeah, it's um I guess it's the long-term, short-term mindset.
00:11:36
Speaker
So some will say they're be going to be way more prosperous in 10 years with a lot more tourism and better transport links. Some would say we need more than than that in the next 10 years in healthcare
What are the challenges in starting CPK's construction?
00:11:48
Speaker
care and social services and everything else. So yeah.
00:11:50
Speaker
But construction beginning next year. So keep eyes peeled. We should return to the subject when some contracts get awarded. Yeah, I tried to find any sort of early contracts awarded to some of the main contractors that we know. Not much yet. So we'll keep tabs on that.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah, cool. Right, moving on to a fairly juicy topic. So the background here is ah from a guy from a guy who helped build Autodesk into what it is today is this global behemoth. The former CEO Amar Hansboll has launched a company called Motif.
00:12:24
Speaker
which is a cloud-based ah
Introducing Motif: A new player in design software
00:12:27
Speaker
construction design um platform ah built from scratch, basically to fix everything frustrating about Autodesk's design tools.
00:12:38
Speaker
um So, ah you know, going from inside the belly of the beast to attacking it. um and uh he has explicitly said in interviews that you know rather than trying to beat like an autodesk revit on day one they're taking this strategic route starting with kind of collaboration tools starting higher up in the design process in like architectural design and then kind of progressing down through the stages of a project and when i looked
00:13:11
Speaker
at it. um I've been quite interested in the the story. um I've created in their strategy and the tools. And it reminds me a lot of, for those that are not in construction, a software called Figma.
00:13:27
Speaker
So Figma is a design, a collaborative cloud-based design software. It's something that our team and we use, you know, most software, I'd say almost all software seems to be designed on Figma these days.
00:13:41
Speaker
um And They didn't invent the idea of it. There was an existing desktop-based a solution that existed, or there were a few, Sketch and others. um And ah like it seemed like overnight they turned up and swept over the the the industry, starting with this like initial point of high-end or high-fidelity mock-ups of of software that the developers will build from.
00:14:10
Speaker
And that this idea of like a collaborative model, web-based, so not having to install software, just made the barrier to entry and the experience so much better, the barrier to entry so much lower, the experience so much better, that they kind of seem to win that market.
00:14:25
Speaker
ah very, very quickly to the point they they almost sold to Adobe for 20 billion. And so I guess the theory and the thing that I'm i'm trying to express is that they solve this one core problem as their entry point and became the preferred tool of choice ah for for a core group of users who are these like designers, which gave them a ah beachhead to just keep moving further up and down that value chain.
00:14:50
Speaker
And it seems as though there's ah there's a very similar strategy afoot here. Motive starting with the architectural design, solving a bunch of the collaboration and other pain points with like a Revit, which is traditionally desktop based.
00:15:06
Speaker
If they're able to do that, could very easily get on a very quick roll to to move further down um into detailed design, you know construction phase.
Can Motif disrupt traditional design tools like Autodesk?
00:15:20
Speaker
So I'm very interested in the strategy and their execution and the space. So i don't know, Carlos, yeah, what did you what did you think when when diving into it and and what's jumping out?
00:15:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's quite interesting because it's not a company I really knew much about. it's not really a space that we are in. um And so like, it seems like they've got this approach, which is instead of this centralized BIM model, which is what a lot of tools focus on, it's this like lynn linking everything related.
00:15:50
Speaker
So it's like distributed data rather than centralized data. So to effectively go up against Autodesk, but without I guess the legacy issue that Autodesk will have in trying to compete in this space, if that becomes the the dominant way that teams like to like obviously work collaboratively in the cloud.
00:16:08
Speaker
It's be very hard for that ship to turn at pace without screwing things up for existing customers and and having to like pivot quite quickly. These guys should be able to accelerate quite fast.
00:16:20
Speaker
They're backed by, i think Google, well, Alphabet are one of the main parties in the raise. Yeah, i think the primary was Redpoint, which is a big US venture fund um and capital G. But I think there might think others might be in there as well.
00:16:34
Speaker
I could see probably in the next few years, they really accelerate in this probably the smaller to mid-sized firms because it's going be really hard to to break the the big tier ones away from Autodesk.
00:16:46
Speaker
at pace, but you'd still bet that they'd be testing it and trying it in the background and highlighting it because they want to keep tabs if it's going to be that sort of impactful or successful. um It's a bit like, I think I'd compare it to like trying to break construction away from a P6. They're so ingrained in a tool.
00:17:04
Speaker
It's gonna be really hard to change, but I think once the change starts happening, it would be quite rapid because suddenly the bar's so much higher, you can't be left behind. And we'll see what that point that happens. Yeah, I think there's some similarities to to that sort of thing. Like the the problem has been known for a long time. And I think a lot of people have viewed, oh, well, we can't, we're not going to move people. We're not going to move designers out of Revit or whatever it might be that they're using.
00:17:32
Speaker
And so there is an ecosystem of systems out there that like through plugins or other things, take Revit models and and then take them into the cloud. And there's suddenly like viewers and things in the cloud, or there's like, you know, can we get open standards so that this model in the cloud could, you know, we can download it and make edits kind of like sync, which feels like, um you know, like early days of like a Dropbox or something where you edit something on your desktop and it syncs up a version.
00:18:01
Speaker
And then suddenly everyone just goes, well, why would you do the whole thing in real time multiplayer in the cloud?
How might Autodesk respond to Motif's strategy?
00:18:06
Speaker
And so, yeah, there's like bit of a lot of effort and a lot of companies built on the idea of like stuff gets authored in these legacy or incumbent tools. And our job is to help make the designs from those incumbent tools viewable by other people.
00:18:22
Speaker
And this is just like ah let's just go straight and solve the the the creation of it problem. And what's different between that and like maybe like a P6 or other things like that is I think the process of design is inherently collaborative.
00:18:37
Speaker
Yeah. Not to say like scheduling isn't it, but it's definitely not as, you know, collaborative. It's, you know, someone goes and does something for a bit and then you come back together and look at it. Whereas, and obviously there's a,
00:18:49
Speaker
There's a huge pool of tools because of that market, which are about making models and that information available a more simplistic viewer that everyone everyone can access in its relatively low cost.
00:19:01
Speaker
Totally. And so, yeah, that that like opens the question of like, okay, you you know, in Amar's words, I think in ah in a um and podcast or an article, he said, yeah, if you're gonna if you're going to come for the king, you better not miss in his like... ah But like, okay, so yeah, right. So they're going after Revit.
00:19:20
Speaker
But as you said, there's going to, if they are successful, big if, if they are successful, there's going, there is also a lot of collateral damage along the way with like, with like Autodesk or, and Revit being the, maybe the the biggest share market share there for them to go after.
00:19:39
Speaker
But yeah, along the way, you've got things like, Like Bluebeam, that's pretty thin as ah ah size ah as a product. Like rivisto Revisto, Revisto's kind of like a collaborative viewer thing, but it is further down. But I think if you, the the gatekeeper to this process of the designers. So if the designers move to this thing, it's very easy to share the thing.
00:20:03
Speaker
It's hard to fight from further down the the process. but he's It's such a big statement where he's old he's basically saying now, we're like in the short term, we're going to tackle this like collaboration reviewing thing.
00:20:16
Speaker
yeah But in the future, we'll have a full featured Revit alter. And he's made such
What impact could Motif have on the design software market?
00:20:22
Speaker
a big statement. He's made loads of money. He's ex Autodesk. if you're anyone in that market you can't wait until he's near building the revit model you're gonna have to start thinking about that now it's interesting to see the reaction you'd imagine you're going to start seeing autodesk releasing like integrations and and things to make it look like they're compatible and and and pushing in that space but well you saw pro core require pro core require bim startup like
00:20:50
Speaker
and for the weeks ago. um so yeah, I think like, yeah, you've got who's the potential collateral damage. You've got like, yeah, Autodesk with their construction cloud, which, you know, internally they must be thinking, shit, we got to migrate this whole thing, cloud ASAP, because otherwise they do the thing that we're talking about the other week with with Oracle and P6, which is like, oh I'll just make it hard to integrate with, but you're like on a slow path to getting,
00:21:16
Speaker
I mean, how long does it even take to to switch to cloud for a company like Autodesk with that product set? That's not a yeah not a quick change, right? Do you think um like Autodesk's model was built by, right?
00:21:28
Speaker
Do you think this is already too big? And I don't mean by the value today, but if you look at the statements, the amount of money they raised and this story, do you think it's off the table as something that Autodesk were going trying to purchase? Yeah.
00:21:43
Speaker
I don't know that they would, hello who knows, they might do. I think it won't happen soon though, they'd have to show like real competitive. Yeah, I think so.
00:21:55
Speaker
Unless they're like very scared by it, but I don't imagine so. I think they'll try and do something themselves first and then realize they're either this other group is struggling or they're a real threat um and they end up then having to buy it.
00:22:10
Speaker
But yeah, you've got the you've got the existing, like so let's say subscale players. So like a Revisto or a Bluebeam. SketchUp is another one.
00:22:20
Speaker
um which was bought by Trimble. It was originally that I think it got spun out or it somehow it ended up being owned by Trimble. And it hasn't really progressed ah since the the early days, which was a similar idea, right? This like collaborative, like that was ah that was quite ahead of its time.
00:22:41
Speaker
So yeah, you've got this like, those players are... at risk of like really seeing market dagger degradation from this and and and maybe struggle, maybe have weaker opportunities to fight back.
00:22:56
Speaker
And then the bigger players, well, like Bluebeam's owned by Nemech Group. But they've not done anything with that tool in so long. I can't see them really suddenly jumping into gear.
00:23:07
Speaker
And then you've got the kind of big companies like Procore and like Autodesk who have to who probably take like evasive action immediately and then watch and then decide.
What is critical for Motif to capture market share?
00:23:20
Speaker
I think it's very interesting. Strategically, it's like there's clear problems. Collaboration is definitely a problem in the design process that that should that could be solved.
00:23:32
Speaker
It seems like a really capable group to solve it. um and And so probably comes down to- I'd imagine that poaching the best autodesk people because it's the way more exciting venture to be part of.
00:23:43
Speaker
Totally. Yeah, yeah. um And so, yeah it becomes like now like an execution game. And ah how long does it take to build? You know, what does like feature parity to start stealing workflows?
00:23:57
Speaker
So yeah, think it's going to be an incredibly ah interesting space to watch. And there's a lot of people that will be watching it and working out strategically what to do. Because, yeah, if you if you wait too late, it'll run away from
How can one person influence tech adoption in projects?
00:24:11
Speaker
you.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, one to keep tabs on. I think I've got've got a, ah he's ah speaking at something that I'm going to in a couple of weeks. So it'll be interesting to see what he's- Yeah, they've got teams in the US s and I think you're also in London. Is that, because it seems to see a lot of recruiting and in in the UK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker
Very good. Moving on. So final topic. This week, um we caught a ah LinkedIn post that hit on something that sparked a discussion internally.
00:24:41
Speaker
This idea, the post in in in synopsis was that one person on a job, on a construction project, can completely shape, positive or negatively, whether new tech gets adopt adopted or it gets killed.
00:24:57
Speaker
It uses like a military analogy of like a strategic corporal. um to argue that like site level leaders, like superintendents can make decisions that ripple all the way up to head office.
00:25:09
Speaker
ah And sometimes they can unlock the biggest productivity gains. ah again so And other times they can kind of like be the blocker that shuts down change inside of companies or on projects.
00:25:22
Speaker
And it kicked off a discussion around that topic. And then some of the other personas that ah you would typically see on a project outside of this like strategic corporal military metaphor so yeah i guess what were your thoughts on i guess the original idea of the post off off the bat oh yeah definitely um there was always uh i guess to describe it is there was always individuals on a project that had this kind of soft power where like
00:25:54
Speaker
The bigger projects I worked on, the lead or the work superintendent always had a direct relationship with the project director or senior project manager.
Why is behavioral change key for tech adoption?
00:26:02
Speaker
And whatever they wanted would pretty much happen because they would they would have the pitch of, look, it's my guys on site.
00:26:09
Speaker
This isn't going to fly. We're not doing it. So pick the next job. If it was like in the context of using a new tool or a bit of software. here But if you get that person on site, it doesn't matter what the budget was, what the cost was, it's happening.
00:26:23
Speaker
Because if he says it improves safety, if it improves morale, if we're going to be more productive, it's going to happen. Yep. There are individuals in the project that have that kind of sway. um yeah And even like soft things, like i kind of remember I can remember projects being told by head office and I worked at joint ventures, it's a bit harder to enforce certain things.
00:26:45
Speaker
And they'd be like, right, can you try this? And they'll say to us, can someone just like have a look at this? we won't do it if you don't want to. So let's just pretend like we've given it a go or considered it. And then we'll just click it back and say no. So there's this relationship between head office and projects.
00:27:04
Speaker
And there's also these mini relationships on a project where you can have super influential people that you wouldn't assume were that influential based on, say, an org chart. um So I think it's got some yeah some good ground here.
00:27:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think that like um and most people on construction projects will have someone come to mind when they think of this person. So they may not be the works manager or the general superintendent. Sometimes they are. Sometimes they're just like a supervisor or an engineer who like kind of is the spirit animal of the project and, you know, keeps it. They're like the beating heart of it.
00:27:39
Speaker
And When it comes to technology to getting anything done, ah that that person is like part of, you know that's where stuff gets done. And technology adoption is no different.
00:27:50
Speaker
Any technology adoption is some degree of behavioral change for people. And so behavioral change needs this person to help to be like, yeah, we're going to do this or we're not going to do this.
00:28:01
Speaker
Um, uh, I, I've got tons of people coming to mind that I can think of that would, would, would be this person. It did, it did get us down a funny rabbit hole of like, well, you get other people that are not like that, um, that you interact with as a potential on projects, but also as a like technology vendor, um, and starting to think, you know, if one of them's called, uh, as this LinkedIn post, uh, says strategic corporal, uh,
00:28:30
Speaker
what would you categorize the others as? i had a couple that come to mind. don't know if you had any and who wants to go first, but I actually didn't even think about that um in terms of others.
00:28:42
Speaker
ah You go. Okay. Well, ah that moment when the teacher starts you to go, right, we're going to review the homework. go, oh, fuck.
00:28:54
Speaker
All right, well, i'll I'll riff off a couple and then you can and then you can run with it from there. So the first one, I don't know what I call him, like the dreamer or something. This is the person that's like super tech forward, innovative, wants to try everything and every tool and every piece of technology, can articulate the problems on a project, I suppose.
00:29:16
Speaker
From a tech vendor perspective there, the person who ah seems like such a good lead on a call that, yep, this is the this is the guy or gal and knows exactly the problem, is the opposite of this strategic corporal, just doesn't carry the team, doesn't have the the connection, is' it maybe isn't in a role that puts them as influential or it just isn't doesn't have that cart that respect.
00:29:38
Speaker
And therefore, all of the things that they do kind of get involved no I can't really get pi can't really get off the ground. Yeah, I actually had a few of these written down. i completely missed your question earlier.
00:29:52
Speaker
Oh, so this is the, oh, I actually did buy homework moment. Yeah, yeah. Surprise,
What roles affect tech adoption in construction projects?
00:29:57
Speaker
surprise. Yeah, okay. Just enough time for Chatty Boutique to maybe come up with some... Yeah, there's definitely the the kind of young gun champions. Everyone's on projects where you've got a site engineer who thinks they're a project manager.
00:30:11
Speaker
They do everything. They try everything. they the They're in the ear of the project managers. And if they get behind it, the the the leadership know that they've got someone that will go and do the stuff that...
00:30:24
Speaker
they wouldn't want to match themselves. So those sorts of individuals like, also this person would actually pretty much do the job for us and they're clever enough to, to, to manage it Yeah. So not miles away from, I guess that strategic corporal type of person to a degree. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:40
Speaker
But it's kind of the, the, the quiet influencer type that I think, um, and that could be, That could be like the planning lead that's been at the company for 30 years or someone that's kind of a bit quiet, but everyone knows, knows construction has been around for so many years and seen every issue in every job that it's really hard to ignore them when they sort of say this won't work.
00:31:04
Speaker
Yeah, like the, I don't like the, i don't know, strategic council person who like, maybe doesn't have ah any major influence broadly on the project, but for some reason that that the key driver person will go to them for, what do you think about this thing? and this i think I can think of exactly a person like this on a project. who I remember being in meetings and there'd be, on this job, there was like five or six planners One of them is like, like he's a genius, but one would know who was because he doesn't like talk or make himself noticed. But if there was a question, PDA would sort of look at him and he'd do this tiny little nod.
00:31:42
Speaker
He would like carry on with the thing he was talking about. Yeah, ah yeah. Yeah. You get those, I'm thinking about some movies where there's like a gang movie and like someone presents themselves as a leader of the gang, but actually someone else in the group is actually the leader as like a way to not get assassinated. And so while they're negotiating, they're like, they're just getting cues from the real, the the person really running the show.
00:32:05
Speaker
so I was actually thinking Moneyball when Brad Pitt looks at Jonah. Yeah, that's it. that's Yeah, yeah. Okay. So he's not the strategic counsel, it's Jonah Hill. Okay. That's the yeah if anyone hasn't seen it go watch it great movie yeah uh 100 yeah the person i'm thinking of was a quality manager uh and wasn't a background yeah this guys it's those it's those information rich people that like they just know the reality of of yeah yeah a process or uh yeah uh yeah an event yeah um
00:32:38
Speaker
Well, the ah another one that I had, um ah which was like a version of that dreamer person who was like that tech forward person but couldn't carry the group. that There's this other person when technology comes onto a project who kind of like hijacks.
00:32:56
Speaker
Let's not call them the hijacker, but they like hijack. ah hijack Yeah. They like hijack the idea, I guess. So like, um i don't know, you bring on a ah project management solution and there's some part of it that's now like beneficial or has some overlap with safety and suddenly the safety team it has to meet all the safety team requirements.
00:33:19
Speaker
Like it kind of- Well, the guy with the sticky notes that suddenly realizes the sticky notes are going and then gets behind the new tool even though they ignored it for six months. I wasn't going to be specific in, but yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking of a slightly adjacent, but yeah, the heart the hijacker, not the hijacker. That's the wrong. Yeah. We should not say hijack.
00:33:38
Speaker
but Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other one is just like old school blockers. I've been there. I've done it. I don't need this. Waste of time. I know what I'm doing and I know how to pour concrete.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yeah. And do you like those people have like lots of backgrounds that I guess there's the don't need it. Don't want it. Like, yeah I did this, i you know, i did, I used to do this on a piece of paper 40 years ago. don't need, you know, I can still do a better, people, kids these days don't know how to do X or that kind of part.
00:34:12
Speaker
Then i maybe there's like a less skeptical person, the one that's like, I see the problem. We've tried 15 tools for this thing over over the last 60 years and they all suck.
00:34:23
Speaker
And I don't want to learn another one. Why would this be any different? Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. There's also like the the like version of that that is they're like not skeptical. They're just like unconfident. They're like, i I don't know technology.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah, we're scared to dip the toe in just in case it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah. Like they just immediately like, I can't even I can't even use computers or whatever. Yeah.
00:34:52
Speaker
So yeah, I think the the takeaway is like the there's a lot of power in the strategic corporal. So i think it's an interesting idea. and I think it happens, it's it's it's true, not only for technology adoption, but like probably how most things happen on a project.
Episode wrap-up and closing remarks
00:35:08
Speaker
Definitely. Right. Awesome. We're out of time. Why don't read us out, mate. Thank you very much, everyone, for tuning into today's show. If you did enjoy the episode, please do think about liking the video or following us on your chosen podcast platform.
00:35:22
Speaker
We really appreciate your support and we'll see you all next week. Bye-bye.