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Zack Snyder's Justice League
180 Plays3 years ago
No one can replace Derrick, but he would have wanted the show to continue, and so it does. In the first episode of this new format, Perry is joined by author and video producer Adam Lance Garcia and they tackle the Snyder Cut. And in true Superhero Cinephiles fashion, there's plenty of other digressions about Falcon and the Winter Soldier, the DCEU, and much more!
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Transcript
Introduction and Audible Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, fellow superhero cenophiles. Did you know that almost 30% of adults say they haven't read a book in the past year? Primary reason why is a lack of time. Well, Audible's here to help with the gift of found time. Thanks to Audible, you can listen to audiobooks like Marvel Comics, The Untold Story, or Slugfest inside the epic 50-year battle between Marvel and DC.
00:00:19
Speaker
Read up on the history of superheroes in comics and movies with Grant Morrison's Supergods.
Superhero Novels and Audible Benefits
00:00:24
Speaker
You can also check out Vanguard, my original superhero novel series, or try The Vrilagenda or The Adventures of Fortune McCall, both of which were written by our duly departed host emeritus, Derek Ferguson.
00:00:35
Speaker
Whatever you're looking for, Audible has thousands of titles that you can consume while commuting, exercising, cooking, or just relaxing at home. And not only audiobooks, an Audible membership also gives you access to tons of content like podcasts, theatrical performances, and exclusive Audible originals that you won't find anywhere else.
Starting Your Free Audible Trial
00:00:52
Speaker
To give you a taste of what you can get, Audible is partnered with this show to provide listeners with a free 30-day trial.
00:00:59
Speaker
All you have to do is go to audibletrial.com slash SuperCinemapod and with your free trial you get one free audiobook and two free Audible Originals. In fact, you get to keep those titles even if you cancel before the trial is over. So what are you waiting for? Head on over to audibletrial.com slash SuperCinemapod and start your free trial today.
00:01:32
Speaker
Oh, contraire, my little fish dick. He knows exactly what it's like to lose so many loves. You know, like a... a father? Like a mother? Be very careful with the next thing you say. Like an adopted son.
00:02:04
Speaker
Isn't that right? Batman. Maybe, in a way, that smelly old flounder is right. Because how many can die in your arms before you ground them to death? That's not very careful. Now, how many dead eyes can you look into?
00:02:30
Speaker
Before you die inside yourself. I've been dead inside a long time. But even I have a limit. And if you cross that line, I swear to God. Before what, Bruce? Kill me? You don't want to kill me. I'm your best friend. Besides, who's going to give you a reach around? Anyway.
00:02:57
Speaker
You need me. You need me to help you undo this world you created by letting her die. Poor Lois. How she suffered so? I often wonder, how many alternate timelines do you destroy the world because
00:03:29
Speaker
Frankly, you don't have the colonies to die yourself. Hmm? So as usual, I'll be the bigger man. A truce. Bruce. As long as you have this card. The truce.
00:03:59
Speaker
But all you have to do is tear math, and I'm happy to discuss with you in any way like why you sent a boy wonder... to do a man's job.
00:04:12
Speaker
You know, it's funny that you could talk about people who died in my arms. Because when I held a holy coin, and she was bleeding and dying, she begged me with her last breath that when I killed you, and make no mistake, I will fucking kill you. That I do it slow. I'm in harm with that promise.
Show's New Format After Derek Ferguson
00:05:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles. This is the first episode of kind of the new format of the show since Derek's unfortunate passing. To begin with, at least for the time being, we're gonna have kind of like a rotating guest system. We're gonna have different people coming on to talk about
00:05:20
Speaker
different superhero movies and because it and we'll see what happens in the long run as far as like bringing on maybe maybe someone permanently but at the time I think it's it's it'll be good to just have like you know a few different voices on here because Derek's pretty much irreplaceable to begin with so so bringing on someone right off the bat would be would be kind of a kind of a tall order I think but
00:05:44
Speaker
I'm Perry Constantine, I'm now your sole co-host.
Guest Introduction: Adam Lance Garcia
00:05:49
Speaker
And since the next movie Derek and I were supposed to cover was going to be Zack Snyder's Justice League, I was trying to think, well, I want to have someone on to talk about the Snyder Cut. And who else could I talk to besides Derek, who kind of has a lot to say about it. And there's only one guy I could think of, and that's Adam Lance Garcia. Adam, how are you doing today?
00:06:14
Speaker
I am doing very, very well, and I am so honored to be here. Just thank you so much for thinking about me. And I know that I can't replace Derek's commentary in any shape or form, but I'm happy to honor him in any way I can today. Oh, I'm sure he would have definitely loved to know that you're the first guy coming on after him. So I think you're definitely the right pick for this. You're gonna make me cry, but thank you.
00:06:42
Speaker
There's been a lot of that going on since all this happened. But anyway, before we jump into the movie and jump into like news and all that, why don't you tell people a little bit about yourself?
Adam's Career and Upcoming Projects
00:06:54
Speaker
Well, I am, by day, I'm a producer for Conde Nast. I do celebrity and sort of talent and expert interviews. It's a weird job. I will classify as a dumb job because I get to talk about the things I love for a living. I've done, like, for example, Star Wars videos, Doctor Who videos, Warhammer videos. I just produced a Quantum Leap video. It's a dumb, dumb, dumb job.
00:07:21
Speaker
Um, I really do not know how I've had this, especially during the pandemic and by night I'm an author, uh, uh, especially yourself. I write, uh, I'm best known for. The green llama legacy series, uh, beginning with green llama on bound. Uh, and I'm currently working on green llama.
00:07:39
Speaker
Redemption, which is the third in the trilogy. I've been working on that for way too long, as well as a continuation in the form of an audio drama, which I'll be hopefully coming out later this year. Awesome. That is, yeah, so that's a little bit about me. Also, I have two cats.
00:07:55
Speaker
And I live with my girlfriend. And that's really that's all you really need to know about. OK, so before we jump into the Snyder cut, one of the things we talk about a little bit on this show is just kind of update people on any superhero movie or TV related news and whatnot.
Marvel Announcements and Future Speculation
00:08:13
Speaker
since you're a news guy and begin with um or in that you know row in that realm issue I just got an image of you like wearing a fedora and being around to the typewriter I you know if you had told me I do have two there in the other room I think the was I think the
00:08:37
Speaker
the incels have kind of ruined the fedora though for everybody yeah they really have yeah i got it because i was like i look cool and i'll be like indiana jones and now they're like incels i'm like yeah yeah uh so anyway any um is that do you know of any any big superhero or movie or tv related news that's popped up in the past you know week or so or anything that kind of caught your eye
00:09:00
Speaker
I'm really, the biggest things that were kind of popping my eye like were all the Marvel announcements. The dates, I'm not sure if you've already spoken about that. No, no, we haven't had an episode since March, so.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah, like that's the biggest thing. It's weird because like I'm really curious to see where they're going. I think it's my relationship with the MCU went from being very much a like a lover without question to being something of an atheist to now being an agnostic, I guess. It's something that like
00:09:38
Speaker
I appreciate for what it is. I enjoy it for like when it's great, it's great. Like I can talk to you, like you wanna talk about the Guardians of Galaxy films and like why they're just amazing or the majority of the Captain America films or like, and a lot of things that they do that I'm like, this is great. This is like, and then there's some stuff I'm like, okay, all right, you're doing that thing. But I am really curious to see what this next phase is going to be like, this post and game era, because it's, I think it's,
00:10:08
Speaker
Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on it and I think the things that I'm most excited about, what if, because my friend, I have a friend who worked on that and I know some of the stuff that she did on that and I was gonna pitch some ideas and she told me what she was doing and I'm like, you don't need me. Some of the stuff she came up with, she was telling me about like,
00:10:34
Speaker
So I was just like, what if it's one of those things I'm really looking forward to? I love that comic book. Like that was such a, that was just such a fun offbeat comic back in the day. Go ahead. You're gonna dig it. Like that's like one of the, cause it's one of those things where, I mean, obviously we know about like Peggy Carter being captain of Britain and we have some of the things that, you know, we've seen in the previews. There's other stories she was like, I remember her telling me about the,
00:11:05
Speaker
Because we've seen again, this is in the trailers, the reveal that T'Challa is Star-Lord. She told me like the pitch of it and I was like, that's amazing. So there's a lot of that that's coming out that I'm really excited about. And I'm really curious to see what they can do with Fantastic Four. I'm glad they're doing Marvels. I think that's really exciting.
00:11:27
Speaker
There's a few other ones. I'm really excited for going to the Galaxy Volume 3. I'm curious to see what they're going to do with the internals because I think that's going to be a really interesting take. I'm hoping that, I guess my biggest thing is that I really want to see the MCU
00:11:48
Speaker
get weird. I really feel like I want them to get more and more outside their comfort zone. And we get teases of that in, we get teases of that WandaVision and teases of that in Falcon the Winter Soldier. But I really want to see like, you know,
00:12:04
Speaker
I just want them to go bonkers. I want them to not play it safe. I want them to take us for a ride. I think that's what we get, especially when we get into multiverse of madness. That's one I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do. Yeah, especially because it's Sam Raimi coming back. That could be really interesting. Yeah, and also I'm curious to see what's Spider-Man.
00:12:30
Speaker
I'm curious to see what that's going to be like. I really like Tom Holland's Spider-Man. I think his story is one of my favorites in the MCU, partially because I've always really appreciated
00:12:45
Speaker
a teenage Spider-Man because that's Spider-Man that like I really associate like that's the Spider-Man that I wanted to be when I was a kid. So I really I'm liking what they're doing. I just the one thing I worry about with Spider-Man is that like I like the first one was about you know
00:13:05
Speaker
dealing with like, Iron Man being this sort of father figure, interesting. You know, I dug that like, there was like, what's the world like after Tony Stark, dug that. And I'm kind of hoping that whatever No Way Home is, you know, not getting into any rumors or anything, but like, I really want it to be about, I want it to be a Spider-Man.
00:13:26
Speaker
movie. I think that's the thing that I really, I want to see, especially because like I've just been playing a non-stop Spider-Man on a PS5 and Spider-Man Miles Morales. I'm like, this is more of this. Yeah. Those are amazing. Yeah. I played those on, I don't have a PS5 yet, but I definitely played both those on PS4. And I blew through Miles Morales in like a week, I think. Like it would just now stop playing that. That was so much fun.
00:13:53
Speaker
So much fun. So like, I want more of that. And I think it's yeah, like, I really want I, I'm really curious to see what the MCU is going to do next. Yeah. I think, I think for me, the biggest I'm really interested in
Anticipation for Shang-Chi and Martial Arts Influence
00:14:06
Speaker
Shang-Chi. Like, I love that character. I love the right. Yeah, monk and glacy stuff from back in the day. And why I mean, I love like the
00:14:14
Speaker
the whole kung fu aspect too, like Enter the Dragon is like one of my favorite movies. And I, after Sima Liu was cast, I'd started watching, like right around the time he was cast, Netflix put Kim's Convenience on.
00:14:28
Speaker
when I started watching it. And I watched the first few episodes, I'm like, oh, this is okay, this is okay, not bad. And then I just kind of like got distracted by other stuff and I stopped watching it. And then recently I just, I was looking for something to watch on Netflix and stumbled on that. I'm like, oh, let me keep watching this. And like for the past like few weeks, I just blew through all four seasons that are on Netflix. And it's so fun.
00:14:50
Speaker
I've heard it's really good. Yeah. And I think it's going to be interesting because I know you and I disagree on Iron Man 3. Yeah. And I think it's going to be very interesting how that film is going to feel in context now that we have Shang-Chi actually dealing with the Manchurian and dealing with the Ten Rings. And I think that's actually like to a larger point what I will always give the MCU credit for.
00:15:16
Speaker
is it's not as planned as everyone thinks it is. Everyone, and I think they say like, hey, this is the way forward and this is what we're doing. You know, it is very much made up on the fly. Like I remember asking someone, if you look in WandaVision, you know, why there's like one shot where you can see the shadow of Vision's cape go out of sync.
00:15:41
Speaker
Oh, really? Okay. And it's because, yeah, like, it's interesting. And I was like, and I asked a friend of mine who worked at IAM, like, why would they CGI the cape, let alone the shadow? It's like, because in the CU, the Marvel changes their mind all the time. You know, I've heard that, like, they'll get copies of the script that are like completely different versions of the story.
00:16:05
Speaker
You know, so they're out like day to day, like movie to movie. It seems like it's all planned because they're really, really good at figuring out how to make everything fit together. Yeah. Yeah. Even if it's after the fact. So like wishing she is going to be interesting that it's going to like they took this thing that.
00:16:24
Speaker
you know, some people liked, some people didn't, and they're like, all right, what if we address it this way? What if we like put all that into different contexts? Like how, you know, Age of Ultron isn't anyone's favorite Avengers film, but they're using a lot of those elements in interesting ways. You know, you're seeing Wanda's story and Vision's story paying off
Marvel's Flexible Filmmaking Approach
00:16:45
Speaker
in interesting ways. It's all from Age of Ultron, you know, how,
00:16:49
Speaker
like the Sokovia course, and there's all these different things that are born out of Age of Ultron that work well within the context of a larger franchise. And that's something that I'm really curious to see. I think that the MCU, like I said, does very, very well.
00:17:08
Speaker
You know, if it is ever a chance to like change the conversation on the MCU, it's always like, no, they don't plan it. They don't plan it. They're really good on thinking on their feet and finding it and edit. Yeah. Just like the way I thought the way it always kind of seemed to me was like they kind of have like a very, a very rough idea of kind of like where they want to go. And it's like the.
00:17:30
Speaker
You know, it's kind of like, I always use this analogy when I'm talking about story planning and everything I say, it's like using Google Maps, right? Use Google Maps, it gives you a route. But if you turn off on the other path, it'll just reroute you back over there. And that's kind of like, that's one of the ways I approach writing. Like, I know where I'm starting, I know where I need to go, and just like, how do I get there?
00:17:51
Speaker
the details aren't as clear. Like, you know, maybe I'll wanna take a detour over here. Maybe there'll be some construction or traffic over here. And I kind of get the sense that Marvel operates in much the same way.
00:18:02
Speaker
It's similar. The biggest difference is, because I'm very much the same way, I'll plan out, a good example is like my, and we were talking about this before as we were recording, my Green Llama story, it is ending very much where I thought it was going to end. The story I'm telling is very much a story I planned
00:18:21
Speaker
long, long ago, the big difference is it's not happening the way I planned it, if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah. And so it's sort of like, to your point, like, I dragged the map over, the thing over, and I'm still getting there. The thing that I wanted to happen is still happening because it's happening differently. Yeah. With Marvel, it's more that...
00:18:41
Speaker
they'll shoot multiple options and multiple different things and, or shoot different scenes and they'll sort of put it together to make it work in post. It's, it's
00:18:53
Speaker
It's not abnormal, a thing for films. I mean, like JJ Abrams does a lot in his own work. But I think that the biggest thing that they have to the benefits, they have Feige, who can put this together, put this together. You know, they can sort of mishmash and put various different takes together, various different scenes together to make it work because of the way they shoot. So it's...
00:19:19
Speaker
It is almost like, I'm trying to think of using your Google maps analogy and sort of broadening it. Imagine it's sort of like, what they do is they have like five cars and they're all like, all right, we all need to go down to like, this is point A, this is point B. All right, car, you go this way, car B, you go this way, the CD. And then they're like, okay, we have all these maps. What if we take,
00:20:03
Speaker
I was gonna say like with what, like the only two shows that the Disney plus series.
00:20:23
Speaker
like that was completely reshaped. And then there's actually like a two, what I'm curious, and I was talking to someone else online, but I think Marvel is really good at going movie to movie, figuring it out as they go. Cause like in isolation is one movie, everything works. And then you have like two hour, you have this two hour brick of this wall. And then you have this other two hour brick of the wall and the wall builds up really easily.
00:20:53
Speaker
figuring it out as they go and sort of piecing it together. You can see the seams a bit more in a season of TV than you could movie to movie. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, it does. Yeah.
Critique of Falcon and Winter Soldier Themes
00:21:32
Speaker
That means to be Captain America, what is Captain America's role in the world? I mean, all this stuff, like the sort of, while it was sort of nice scene to scene, like their journeys across the world and stuff like that, every time it got away from,
00:21:50
Speaker
like, let's talk about race and what having a black man as Captain America means. Like every time they got away from that, I was like, this is not as exciting and interesting as it could be. Like there's a lot of really, really, really powerful things you could say about having Sam Wilson be Captain America. And like, again, what does it mean to be a black man taking on the role of Captain America? So I think that
00:22:19
Speaker
In brief, I think they tried too many things at once. Yeah. I think they could have focused on one thing. They could have. I think this is what normally I'm okay with like shortened seasons because like some of those, the Netflix Marvel shows like had a lot of padding in them as interesting as they were. But like they had this very soft squishy middle where it's like a lot of navel gazing going on in those middle episodes. And so like WandaVision was very tight. And then I also, Watchmen I think is like the perfect example. Like that was so tight.
00:22:48
Speaker
And so like, and in Falcon Winter Soldier, they said, oh, it's only gonna be six episodes. Okay, good. It'll be really, really tight. And it's like, you know what? I think they maybe could have used like an extra like two episodes yourself.
00:22:59
Speaker
Yeah, that are like, it's like they could have used two episodes or they could have like saved the storyline for season two. Like, yeah, I understand why Baron Zemo was there, but also I don't think we needed Baron Zemo in there. Like, I understand why, like, I like the idea of the, uh, the, the villains, I can't remember the glow breakers, uh, the black smashers.
00:23:22
Speaker
like, I like that story. But it was like, maybe that's you save that for next season, or, you know, there's, I felt like they were just trying to do too much. And to your point, like, I've since like, a dozen times this week, like, Watchmen is probably like, one of the tightest, most relevant TV shows, superhero TV shows I've seen in a long time. And like,
00:23:43
Speaker
God, they said so goddamn much with that series. Yeah, I kind of felt the same. Like I loved the, as much as I love like all the Lethal Weapon style stuff, like the buddy comedy type stuff, I loved all that stuff. I loved seeing Zemo, like Zemo was just great. Even though to your point, there wasn't really a whole lot of reason for him to be there, but he was just so fun to watch that I didn't really mind. And it wasn't until after the show was over that I was thinking about, I'm like, you know what? They didn't really use Zemo a whole lot.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it was fun in the moment. And I think that's actually an issue that I've had with both WandaVision and Falcon and Winter Soldier is that I don't think they just could decide who their feeling was. You know, I think with
00:24:30
Speaker
you know, with Falcon Wonder Soldier, was the villain the Black Smashers, or was it Simo? And because it couldn't really, it didn't feel like they could really decide which, or was it Walker? Like, who was the villain? Like, it caused it to be all smooshy. And the similar thing where like, I love the Agatha all-long reveal in the moment in WandaVision, but
00:24:54
Speaker
I think, I still think there's a much more powerful, much tighter story where it's just Wanda and the antagonist is Monica. And Monica is these two women going through grief in two different ways. Like is it like, you know, you have,
00:25:15
Speaker
Wanda's grieving, Monica's grieving, Monica's dealing with an unhealthy way, and Wanda is dealing with an unhealthy way, and that's the confrontation because of the end of this grief. But instead, they wanted Agatha for her fight, and it muddied their narrative. It muddied the themes that they were trying to say. So that was one of my issues with the Marvel shows right now. I am very excited for Loki.
Excitement for Loki and MCU's Multiverse
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, same here.
00:25:43
Speaker
It looks like, it looks weird. Well, just like to your point, like when you said you're hoping they're gonna get weird, it looks like, I think Loki, they're really gonna start getting weird with Loki.
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, and it looks like they're, I mean, do you think it's gonna tie into a multiverse of madness? I don't know, because everybody thought that WandaVision was gonna tie into multiverse of madness in a big way. Like there's the whole rumor that Benedict Cumberbatch was gonna appear in it and all that kind of stuff. And of course the whole Quicksilver, which I love that they, I just love that they did take that whole Quicksilver thing as a giant troll and they turned it into a boner joke.
00:26:22
Speaker
Oh, man, that I remember like watching that when he showed up and I was like, Holy Christ. What the fuck? Yeah, yeah. Can I curse on this? Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, you're fine. You're fine. Yeah. I was like, What the fuck is this? Like, Holy shit, like this. Wow, they went there like that's insane. This is the last thing, literally the last thing I expected to happen. So it was it was a nice surprise. And I think that was I. Yeah, I hope it I kind of hope it does. And I hope it doesn't tie into my multiverse of madness, because I think
00:26:52
Speaker
I want more, the other point is like, I want more Marvel films to sort of stand on their own. Like shifting to like a topic that we're sort of talking about, the thing, the latter day DC films are better at standing alone. You know, like I think Shazam is a ton of fun. I think Aquaman is kind of crazy, but I really, like it's a good standalone.
00:27:17
Speaker
And I really like even like Birds of Prey was a lot of fun. I'm so excited for this. The Suicide Squad. Oh, God. Yeah, I think like.
00:27:26
Speaker
I'm so happy James Gunn is just doing all the things. Oh, you know, it's funny because you were talking about Guardians of the Galaxy earlier. My wife the other day, she wanted to watch it again because that was actually how I converted her into an MCU fan. Because when we first started dating, we were talking about like, you know, movies and stuff like that. And I mentioned I like superhero movies. Like, oh, I don't really like superhero movies. And I'm just like, oh, this is not going to last. But then,
00:27:53
Speaker
And then when she was over and I showed her Guardians of the Galaxy, and she loved it. And then after that, she wanted to watch the second one. And then after that, I got her to go watch the whole MCU series, and now she's a fan. So I tricked her into liking them.
00:28:08
Speaker
I uh yeah the Guardians of the Galaxy becomes my girlfriend's favorite as well and I think she's actually um because she didn't see Endgame she's not in Infinity War but she didn't see Endgame and she's refusing to watch Endgame until right before
00:28:24
Speaker
we go see uh the guardians of galaxy volume three oh okay that was actually that was an excuse like she's really she wants to see gabora's story done right and she does um so that was actually a funny story so uh i did not tell her about um
00:28:42
Speaker
James Gunn getting fired originally. Oh, okay. Letter, letter. I don't want her to find it. Like, you know, it's, it's, it's a bummer. I'm bummed about it. And then we're in the car and she's like, when am I getting Guardians of Galaxy volume three? I turned off the radio and I was like, all right. What happened? And then it was really, she's like, oh man, that's terrible. And then it was really nice to be like, guess what?
00:29:05
Speaker
He's coming back. That's what I mean. My cat's agreeing with me. So, yeah, it's one of those things where it's, it was, it was, and now, like, the fact that we're getting like, and then I showed her, I showed, she's like, she wasn't interested in Suicide Squad, but then I showed her, like, the Suicide Squad trailer, and she's like, yeah, I'd see that. Same thing. Like, after we, right after we watched Guardians of the Galaxy, like, I went, went straight to YouTube, I'm like, I'm like, watch this, and she watched Suicides. I'm like, this is James Gunn's next movie, and so we watched Suicide Squad trailer, and she's like,
00:29:33
Speaker
I wanna see that. I'm like, yeah. I know you do. Everybody wants to see that. Especially when I told her, I'm like, when I pointed out King Shark and I'm like, you hear his voice? She's like, yeah, I'm like, you know who that is? She's like, no, I'm like, that's Sylvester Stallone. She's like, what?
00:29:48
Speaker
Yeah, I'm so happy here. I'm so happy for James Gunn. That guy deserves it. Yes, definitely. And so I think that's the thing. I really hope that the MCU can be weirder and let things stand on their own more. They were not required to sort of watch everything to understand each story.
00:30:08
Speaker
uh because that's like the that's like of the many things post Snyder uh that I am enjoying is that DC films kind of feel like their their own like don't I don't love the Joker film I don't love it because it is really really um troublesome yes uh if you if you get down to the themes of that movie uh but
00:30:32
Speaker
It at least feels like it made some creative choices and had a distinct style. And I kind of want to see more of that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we did an episode on Joker. We enjoyed it. Like Derek and I, we both liked it. Although we weren't like, we were in this weird camp because we weren't, it seems like there were like these two. Okay, sure.
00:30:55
Speaker
They're like these- That was my, you can pause it and, or like- Yeah, I just did a quick pause. I just wouldn't stop you. Okay. Yeah. We were like a, we were in this weird middle ground where like, you know, cause it seemed like there were these diametric opinions on Joker. Either you thought it was like the greatest thing ever, or you thought it was absolutely terrible. And we were just kind of like, it's okay. Like it- Yeah.
00:31:18
Speaker
And it's got some issues. But Joaquin Phoenix is fun in it. And yeah, it was all right. We kind of dug it. Yeah. And that was kind of what we came up with.
00:31:32
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do with the Batman, because again, that feels like they're making some choices. So it's weird, it's just like, there's something to be said about the MCU's ability to sort of make this really cohesive universe and think on their feet, and like, you know, you can watch it all, and it all feels as a piece, and there's always different avenues for like, if you're like, I don't really like this, but I can really, I love the Carnage Galaxy films, but I really don't like this, but like, I love the Avengers films. There's a lot of ways in that you can enjoy it.
00:32:02
Speaker
But there is something to be said about the more latter day DC stuff of just being like, let the director sort of create their own feel for it. So I don't know. I feel like this is the middle ground. I don't know what that is. No, I get what you're saying. I mean, I'm very partial to the MCU style just because like I...
00:32:21
Speaker
just coming from the old school comics background. Like I love the interconnectedness and all that kind of stuff, but I do see your point. And the DC stuff, the post-Snyder stuff is really enjoyable too. So yeah. Yeah, because I think, yeah, sorry to interrupt you, but like there is like, as someone who just did my own writing, like the interconnectivity is really exciting, but there is a bit of like,
00:32:46
Speaker
I guess, I'm very tired of getting to the end of the film and they're like, and here's the next chapter. I think the thing I liked about Endgame that I found was like, oh, there's no post-credit sequence. This is the end of the story. Cool. I just didn't feel like, I guess I feel like a lot of the MCU films as much as they're really good. And to your point, great about interconnectivity. There is this sort of sense of
00:33:14
Speaker
here's the next thing, here's the next thing, here's the next thing. And it's like, I miss where Spider-Man would show up in an episode, like an issue in the background, be like, nope, I'm not doing that and have nothing to do with the story.
00:33:30
Speaker
Or I, I, I miss that little aspect of it. And I kind of wish it was more of just like, uh, and they did more of it in phase two than they did in phase three, where like you'd have a cat, like a cameo of like Sam Wilson and Ant-Man or like, he's like,
00:33:45
Speaker
Oh, he's just there, isn't that cool? Yeah, yeah, it doesn't affect this. Like instead, it's one of those things where a friend of mine is a transmedia producer and it's like, I think it was really good of, well, you need to have someone show up, why not have it be this character or that character? Why introduce a new character when you can have it just be this person that you already know? Right, right. And I think that's really exciting, like having those little Easter eggs where I think, especially recently, it has been like,
00:34:15
Speaker
you know, this storyline ties into that storyline ties into this storyline, and it becomes a more of a puzzle, would that make sense? No, yeah, I do. And they do. There are some of that that has worked really well, like when they had Jimmy Wu and Arcee appear in WandaVision, like, you know, and it had nothing to do with Ant-Man, had nothing to do with the Dark World. It's like, we need these characters to serve this role, so let's have these two characters come in. And so, yeah, that was a lot of fun.
00:34:41
Speaker
especially just seeing like Darcy especially seeing like how she was gone from being an intern to now she's got a she's got a PhD so it was and when you think about the time frame you're like you that actually makes sense she could have done that in that time frame yeah
00:34:55
Speaker
So, yeah. Anyway, let's talk about the open of the room. We went off topic by a lot. Well, people who have been listening to this show, they know that. That's one of the trademarks of this show. It knows something that always happened with Derek as we always got off topic. We did, I was just re-listening to, because I told you I'm making notes for like a memorial episode. And I was just, we did an episode on the hassle of Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.
00:35:21
Speaker
And we spent, like, probably half the episode. Yeah, man. We spent, like, half the episode not talking about Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. I remember when that shit aired, dude. Like, my dad loved that. Like, not leading him to love it, but it was just, like, one of those things, like, it was like appointment TV when it was, like, a comic book adaptation. And it was almost always terrible back in those days. The kids don't know what they got. They really don't.
00:35:46
Speaker
Well, actually, go back and listen to our episode. We actually found some, it's interesting, like some of the movies we've talked about here, like people are like, wow, you watch that, you must, like, no, we actually found good things to say about that, about the original made for TV, Doctor Strange, even about Batman and Robin. There's some we didn't have good things to say about, like we had nothing good to say about the spirit, we had nothing good to say about steel, but there's some of the other ones, we found some good things to say about him.
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah, there's a, yeah, God, I always, I mean, like those little Captain America's, I felt like, yeah, like I just don't think kids today understand what it's like to like be a millennial or just slightly older, I forget, like whatever it was, Gen X or whatever, of like every time a movie came out, you're like, it's gonna be terrible. Like it wasn't until X-Men or Blade, I don't really, Blade, we're like, oh, this is a comic adaptation. This fucking rocks, you know? It's like, they don't know how good they've got it.
00:36:45
Speaker
All right, so I mean, that's a good segue into today's movie.
Zack Snyder's Justice League: Mixed Reviews
00:36:50
Speaker
And this is The Snyder Cut. And where do you wanna start with this? Like, what were your favorite? So it's interesting. So you and I have talked about this often online, just about Snyder in general. Like, I don't...
00:37:13
Speaker
I don't, oh boy, how do I start this? I remember enjoying Man of Steel on a first time, I was sort of forgiving some of the things, some of those choices that he made in the film, Superman killing things like that, because I felt like, okay, well, let's see what the context is. Like this is the first film in a series, like let's see what he's going to do.
00:37:35
Speaker
And there were certain aspects going in. And when I heard about Batman versus Superman, I'm like, OK, that addresses a lot of issues I would have. Like Batman doesn't like this. He's kind of like, you know, he doesn't trust him because of all the things that happened at the end of Man of Steel. That's a good meta way of addressing and getting them to fight. And then I saw Batman versus Superman. And then you got Batman, you know, branding people and all sorts of shit. And like I I it's I.
00:38:05
Speaker
At the risk of having all the Snyder Bros come after me, like I believe like Batman versus Superman, Dawn of Justice, both the ultimate cut and the theatrical cut are the two worst superhero films I've ever seen. Yes. They are among the it is a criminal misunderstanding of the characters. It is a criminal misunderstanding of the universe. It is it's one of those things where
00:38:29
Speaker
you know, like, to talk about Star Wars for a hot second, like people might not like the portrayal of Luke in The Last Jedi. I happen to love it. Oh yeah, same here. But there are, yeah, and then thank God. There's a lot of story reasons why, like, because like it's 30 years, like all the stuff in the previous film, like, you know, there are valid ways that this, this Luke became this way based on everything we saw preceding it. And it also kind of mirrors what happened to Obi-Wan and Yoda in very similar ways, like- Exactly.
00:39:00
Speaker
Exactly. There's a lot like, and you look at his character in the three previous films, the events that are discussed in The Force Awakens. So when he shows him The Last Jedi, like, you might not like it, but it's there, the pieces are there. Whereas with
00:39:20
Speaker
with Batman versus Superman, you're jumping in like into the story where we really haven't established who Superman is and he's not acting like Superman. And you introduce Batman and he's not acting like Batman, but it's not like he's not acting like Batman in a way that makes any sense to the character. It's like, oh, he's branding people to your point before. That's not really, that's not,
00:39:52
Speaker
You know, Superman is a character who has gotten dark, but he's not someone who ever would say like, no one stays good in this world. And there's a lot of plot contrivances that are just sort of forced into the narrative for some reason. You know, like the whole Martha thing. I just think it's cynical. It's overly dark. It is overstuffed and underbaked.
00:40:12
Speaker
kind of what Batman never did, even like in his darkest turns.
00:40:19
Speaker
And we've watched them both Man of Steel and Batman versus Superman, the ultimate cut.
00:40:24
Speaker
leading up to just the Snyder Cut. You know, overall, man, it's still like, again, certain choices I don't love. I'm like, I can live with this film. I can live with it. It's interesting. There's some really, really great choices. Some really interesting ideas performed poorly. I think that's a big, like, and that's a similar thing, I think, with a lot of Snyder stuff. It's like a lot of really interesting ideas not executed well.
00:40:50
Speaker
I think this really goes to what you're saying is that Snyder is not a story guy. He's not story minded. He's a visual guy. To put it in comic book terms,
00:41:09
Speaker
He's like the image guys, right? Like back when they were working for Marvel and all of a sudden Marvel was like, hey, let's have these guys write the comic books too. And they were terrible. And like you had Tom McFarline who has said like, he's like, oh, I don't really write it. I just draw pictures until I find something that looks good. And then I try to craft the story around that. And it's like, that's not how storytelling works.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that like he he's a really good ideas, man. He's a really good visual storyteller, but he doesn't have the the the storytelling chops to really tell at least with these characters to tell something that's coherent. And I think that's like, you know, to the Snyder Cut, it's like,
00:41:56
Speaker
I did not like Justice League, the just Joss Whedon version. I think it's a really bad movie. It's, I think the biggest sin is that it's boring. Here's the seven greatest heroes ever. And it's a boring film and everyone's like just kind of, it's a Frankenstein. And with the Snyder cut overall, I liked it better than the theatrical cut. I liked it significantly more than Batman versus Superman.
00:42:26
Speaker
I, in a lot of ways, it's a really interesting Elseworld story. But if I were to, if you were to say this is a comic of an Elseworld, like a darker version of the Justice League, I would almost be on board with this. Because there's a lot, like, again, a lot of really interesting ideas executed
00:42:51
Speaker
either well or poorly, it's arranged, you know, like some really interesting ideas of this Elseworlds storyline, but
00:43:01
Speaker
I think as your tentpole for a multimedia franchise, like a major motion picture, it was the wrong way to go. I cannot, spoilers for the life of me, understand that the big five movie arc was
00:43:22
Speaker
is about Superman going bad. That's a really good Elseworld story. It's not the series that you do in the, not even just like the main franchise, but it's also not the series that you do in the first like three or four films. Like if I understood this correctly, like the idea was that Superman was going to go bad in the fourth movie. Like that's the thing you say for like the ninth movie or the twelfth movie. Like you earn that
00:43:50
Speaker
so yeah i have a lot you also you also earn the you also have to earn the whole batman superman thing to begin with you have and watching this movie last night um there are two things that jumped out to me watching it last night one of it is
Criticism of Snyder Cut's Length and Style
00:44:04
Speaker
God, this movie is way too fucking long. And it's just like, it's- Yeah. And it's not like Endgame, right? Endgame is long, but Endgame doesn't bore you during that movie. No, it's compulsive. Yeah, like this movie bored me. I fell asleep like three times watching this last night. And yeah.
00:44:27
Speaker
And like my wife came in a few times and she's like, is it still going? I'm like, yeah. I had to keep myself going with bourbon and bourbon with cookies, like bourbon with cookies and then like just snacks. Cause it was just like, I had to take breaks every so often. It's a lot. It's like, it's weird. It was a better miniseries. It would be a better miniseries than a movie. Yeah. And it's very indulgent. That's the thing. I think that like end game,
00:44:57
Speaker
And game is very tight. Like it is a it is a is indulgent and fanservice like there's shit in there that you're like, like, I'm gonna be honest, like the
00:45:09
Speaker
There's writer Adam, and then there's lizard-brained Adam. I could tell that story-wise that the Captain America getting the hammer does work. It's been hinted at. It's a story level. But really, it's all lizard-brained nerd, like, dang, guys. I'm like, I just like seeing that shit. Like, that's awesome, right?
00:45:34
Speaker
It's indulgent in that way. It's indulgent in a very fan service way and sort of like, it's a victory lap. Whereas the stutter cut is indulgent in like,
00:45:47
Speaker
story beats and moments and long slow motion shots that add nothing to the story whatsoever. I mean, we're seeing Lois with coffee in slow motion. It's just make, it's just senseless. Yeah. Yeah, it's choices. Go ahead. No, I'm just like, it's just, cause you have to make a conscious decision to render something in slow motion like that.
00:46:15
Speaker
Right? You have to consciously say like, we're going to slow down the film for these. And it's like, she's getting coffee. We don't need to see that shit in slow motion.
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah, so it's like a lot of the creative choices that like Snyder made that he was like, well, look, they're letting me do this. I'm just gonna go 110% on it. And since the point earlier, like it is, the thing that I enjoy about it, there's a couple of things I enjoy about it. One is that it's one of the rare times that you actually have to see a filmmaker have like 110% stamp on these characters and this filmmaking, pardon me, it's one of those things where
00:46:57
Speaker
It is a there's no question it's a Snyder movie. Yeah. And, you know, they're sort of like archaeological dig verse of the Whedon version and the Snyder version and seeing what stayed and what didn't like how these characters approach to how these directors approach these characters is interesting.
00:47:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's weird. It's a unique movie because it's like, this is 110% Snyder's vision. He clearly had an idea for these characters. It's not necessarily in and of itself a bad idea. Like I'm not gonna lie, like that ending sequence of Batman and like the surviving heroes and the Joker and Deathstroke, you know, like facing off against an evil Superman,
00:47:46
Speaker
is in and of itself not a terrible idea. It's kind of a cool else world comics at earlier point, but it's like, you have not heard this. But something else with that scene is there are a few things that's like, I like what you're saying. I like the idea of the nightmare thing. The whole thing that pissed me off about that was just, I don't know what Jared Leto was doing.
00:48:14
Speaker
Like it's just every time I see him as- Jared Leto knows what he's doing. Yeah, it's just like every time I see him in this, he's just, it's like the same thing, I see the same thing with Ezra Miller. It's like, if you get someone who's gonna play the Joker, you want someone who can actually laugh. Jared Leto can't laugh. And if you want someone to play the Flash, you get someone who looks like they know how to run. Ezra Miller looks like he's never won before in his life. It's just the weird, I'm like, what are you doing?
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah. Again, it's, I look at me like the guy got us Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and like, he got us Jason Momoa, like, and even him and Cavill, like, I think that's the biggest tragedy with Henry Cavill's Superman is that he's such a charming man. And like, he would be a great Superman if he was allowed to freaking smile. Well, I think that's what we saw in-
00:49:10
Speaker
we got to see some of that in in the waiting cut actually and that was those are the things I like most like you know bad CGI lip aside like he played superman in that movie like superman should be played yeah and that I would have loved to see more of that yeah and it's also but like it's weird like I I don't to that point also I don't think that Snyder knows what to do with superman no because you have him like what like he he I he
00:49:38
Speaker
I'm not exactly clear why he was there at all. Like, because what does he do? He can, like, he's able to punch, like he's able to fight off Steppenwolf at the end. That's kind of it, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, that's all he really does. So it's like, why did you need to kill him off? Like, there's no reason for him to have been dead. No. Yeah, and I think that's, again, the cut goes to this,
00:50:08
Speaker
the point earlier, like I think there's so many things
00:50:12
Speaker
in this series of this trilogy of films now, this non-trilogy trilogy, that it feels like it skipped a beat. But I feel like I'm missing, I'm missing like five films in there or like even two films. Like I'm missing a standalone Batman film to understand like why this Batman is like this way. I'm missing a Superman film to understand who Superman is so that way the world would mourn him because
00:50:42
Speaker
in you know or in like why his death would inspire those to like stand up and it's like you know there's so many things it's like the road he got to the story how do i phrase this again to your google map thing it's sort of like
00:51:01
Speaker
he knew where he wanted to go. But instead of like, looking at the Google map, he's like, what if I just left, right? And I'm like, like, no, the map says, take a right. Like, I'm driving through the building.
00:51:16
Speaker
And in slow motion, that's sort of what it was like. It's like he knew where he wanted to go. He knew what the story was that he wanted to end up with. And instead of doing the work to get to the point that we needed it to be, he cut corners and skipped beats. And again, it's one of those weird things where like,
00:51:42
Speaker
I'm sure someone gonna push back and say like, well, look, he did this, this, this, this, this in this film. And I'm like, yes, the beats are there, but they're not. They don't connect. There's something missing. And I, they don't connect. Exactly. Exactly. You know, it's like, how does like, he go from like, I'm saving everybody to like, you're letting him kill Martha. It's like, can he hear his heart, her heartbeat? Okay.
00:52:10
Speaker
And it's the, I think the best description I've ever seen of Zack Snyder is he's a pretentious Michael Bay. And when I heard that, I think it was Chuck Wendig who wrote that. And when I read that, I'm like, that is the perfect description of him because it's all about the flash, it's all about the visual, but he thinks it's got some deeper meaning and it doesn't.
00:52:35
Speaker
I would also, that's, I think it's weird. I would say that like, here's what I'll say. Take a Venn diagram of Michael Bay and JJ Abrams in the middle of Zack Snyder. That's a good point. Yeah. Because it's, yeah, like he is a pretentious Michael Bay, but also
00:52:54
Speaker
he knows what he wants the film to look like, but he doesn't necessarily know what he's saying. And that's something that like JJ is guilty of, especially in Rise of Skywalker. It's like, it looks great. And there's some really great sequences in that movie, but what is it actually trying to say? What is the story you're telling? You don't even know. So, and I think, yeah, so it's, that's like the vendor, I have to,
00:53:20
Speaker
I might tweet that. It is the Venn diagram of Michael Bay and JJ Abrams as Zack Snyder. Something else that, and going back to the indulgence thing, like there's some scenes in here that, not only the slow motion stuff, but there's some stuff that clearly we don't need, we don't need the Scandinavian women singing as Arthur goes back to the scene. That was weird, right? I'm just like, what the hell is this? That was, yeah, I was like, wow, are we gonna like, what is it?
00:53:48
Speaker
that that's that the horror film that's set in Sweden uh god what is it called um are you talking about the the one with uh with Florence Blue um I can't remember it uh Midsummer oh okay okay I was thinking about I don't know much about what was the was that let the right one in was that also a Swedish one or
00:54:10
Speaker
No, and Midsummer is not Swedish. It's just, it's basically, it's a horror film during the Midsummer Festival. Oh, okay, okay.
00:54:19
Speaker
in, I could be Sweden, it's Scandinavian country. And apologies, I haven't seen it, but it made me think, I saw the trail and I'm like, yep, that's scary. I'm not gonna do that. I haven't wanted to see that because I heard it's really good. Something else too is like the whole thing about Steppenwolf's armor, like I'm looking at this thing where it's like, it's got all these moving parts, it's like big and, and I wrote, I was doing a commentary thread on Facebook when I was watching this the first time around when it came out. And,
00:54:48
Speaker
And I said, Steppenwolf's design, it's emblematic of Snyder's entire approach to these characters. You know, it's big, it's flashy, it's edgy, but it's got no substance. There's no reason for, like, the little pieces on the armor to constantly move like that. And I'm like, this is like, it's like a Rob Liefeld drawing come to life. Is how I got into that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that is...
00:55:16
Speaker
That's a really good, yeah. Did we ever see his feet? I don't remember. I think, I don't know, it's just like, I just got it now, yeah. It took me a moment, it took me a moment, but I got it. No, you can edit it out there, it's just like, and then like, you know, when I say like, do you ever see his feet and you just start laughing? And like, I got it, I got it, so that way you're gonna like, you know. No, it's okay, I'll leave it at it.
00:55:43
Speaker
I don't know. It's weird. You've been seeing Wonder Woman be as violent as she was at the beginning. Again, it's like the sequence is really cool, but then when you stop to think about it, you're like... She just smashed that guy's head against a wall. And then she vaporized the other guy. His ashes are floating in the air as this little girl's like, can I be like you?
00:56:09
Speaker
Bitch, you just saw him vaporize a guy. You want to be like that? I want to keep an eye on that girl then. Yeah. Yeah. And like there's so much of that. Like even like the sequence with like a flashy saving Iris West, right? Like it's a really cool looking sequence. It's really well done. It's really well put together, but it's also like there's like,
00:56:36
Speaker
kind of weird. It's so creepy. Like the way he like kind of looks at her like that. I get it. It's Iris West. It's Barry Allen, but still you're, you're making this look really, you're making it weird, Zach. Yeah. And it's also like, you know, like, why aren't you saving the truck driver?
00:56:53
Speaker
You know, it's like, again, it's this, and that's the whole thing about the Snyder Cut, it's like, these are cool moments, these are cool scenes, these are cool sequences, these are cool ideas, but when you put them together, they don't really cohere, they don't come into, they become a story, they become,
00:57:13
Speaker
some kind of mismatch. And like, if you don't think about it, if you're like, just like, let me turn my brain off and just like go for the ride, it's a good time overall. Even though it's like, you know, again, like I don't think it's a great movie. I think it has some, it's again, better than the original cut with the actual cut. But at the same time, it's like, at the moment you just have to think about the movie, like it doesn't fucking,
00:57:36
Speaker
work. It does like so. We're also going to the violence too. When Superman's fighting Steppenwolf, right? And he slices off one of his headpieces and I'm just like, that's just, it's cruelty for the sake of cruelty. Like there's no reason he has to do that. It's just there because Snyder thought it'd be cool for Superman to maim an enemy. And there's just- Yeah, God.
00:57:59
Speaker
And it's just like, there's so much of this in this movie. And also going with what you're saying about stuff like not connecting, like the whole thing with Silas sacrificing his life, he had no reason to actually do that. He had ample time to get out of there. It's just like, you have to kill him so you can give Cyborg some pathos. Same thing with like, there's no reason that like Paquette needs to die in Man of Steel. Exactly, yeah. It's the exact same situation.
00:58:26
Speaker
And it's, there's also the Superman putting on the black suit. Like when I, cause in the comic books does Superman, he's wearing that cause that's like a regenerative thing. It helps, it helps him heal. And he puts it on and there's no reason for him to wear it. It's just kind of like Clark's like, oh, I think I'd wear black today. And then he, and he's still wearing it at the end of the movie. Like it's just an excuse for, for Snyder to put Superman in a black costume. There's no other reason.
00:58:53
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm trying to think of other examples. Like, you know, like there's no reason that like the Amazon Chase needs to be as brutal as it is. Although that was, I will give it, yeah, it looks really, that was one of the best scenes in that movie. Like that was done really well. Yeah, so there's a lot of, and again, like you look at the end sequence with,
00:59:19
Speaker
with the nightmare stuff. It's like, it looks really cool. But like, do you know what you're saying with it? Yeah. Well, it's like his whole thing is when he was bragging about it, the whole fact like, Batman says fuck in this movie. I'm just like, I'm watching that. I'm like, there's no reason for him to actually do it. It's just come. It's just because you thought it's it's like a 13 year old idea of what what is edgy.
00:59:39
Speaker
Yeah, that that's what it is. Like, you know, yeah, when I was 13, I would have thought, oh, Batman says fuck. That's awesome. But now I'm I'm 37. I don't think that's that's not good or anything like that. Now, that's one of those things where like, yeah, it's like, it's weird, like so many. That's the thing about to your point, like with like all the signers films. And I think a lot of I think
01:00:05
Speaker
And that goes to a larger issue, I think with like media and, you know, superheroes and how superheroes are portrayed and like, and just also like, and this goes to the Star Wars and Star Trek and a lot of the mass media where like a lot of fans don't,
01:00:24
Speaker
get past it, like, well, it's cool. You know, it's like, yeah, it's cool, but does it say, what does that mean? Like when you actually break it down, what does it mean? You know, that's like what, I think like to our discussion earlier, like with Watchmen, like that, I think that's why the comic and why the TV series works so well.
Media's Focus on Style Over Substance
01:00:43
Speaker
It's like, they said like, well, what does this mean?
01:00:45
Speaker
Like if if we did the things that you think are cool and we treated them honestly and treated them with like talking to the repercussions and like what it means for a large issue, what does that mean? And it's the same like like look as cool as it is to see you know Luke Skywalker go like
01:01:08
Speaker
bust things up in the Mandalorian. And I'm looking, again, Lizzabrain, loved that shit. It was great. But at the same time, it's like, well, in isolation, it's fun. But like, what does it mean for a grand scheme? Like, should you have a character like Luke Skywalker, like just straight up murdering people all the time? Good thing these are robots.
01:01:26
Speaker
You know, in the Snyder Cut, it's like, yes, it is cool to see Superman go evil. Yes, it is cool to hear Batman go fuck, say fuck. Or like the Joker make a reach around joke or Wonder Woman be badass than she is.
01:01:46
Speaker
like or even cyborg to have the origin that he has. There's a lot of things in it that are eating of themselves. Cool. But when you start actually putting that all together and seeing what that story is saying, it becomes troublesome. Yeah. You know, I think there's this film is less troublesome than Batman versus Superman in a lot of ways. But it is, you know,
01:02:13
Speaker
Again, it's dial over substance with a belief that there is substance. Well, going to that, the whole, like one of the things that pissed me off in this too is seeing Martian Manhunter appear, right?
01:02:28
Speaker
I mean, and you know, Lennox is Martian Manhunter. Yeah, great choice. I would love to see him play that character. But it's just like, the way you're portraying him in this movie is he's a coward. Because he knows what's everything that's going on. Like, that's why he goes to Lois and gives her a pep talk is Martha Kent, right? And he knows, so he knows everything that's happening here. But then he sits out the big battle and he only turns up at the end at Bruce's house. And it's like, it's... Yeah.
01:02:57
Speaker
And it's just like, and yeah, I love seeing the Martian Man under, he's one of my favorite characters, but it's just like, but then you think about it and he's like, wait a minute, you just basically said he's a coward, because he's just been sitting on his ass. This guy's, this is a guy who was as strong as Superman, and he's not stepping up. Yeah, and yeah, and it's the same thing with, you know,
01:03:19
Speaker
And just to double back with Batman vs Superman, it is interesting to have Superman lose faith in humanity. That's an interesting story to tell, but it's the way that story is told.
01:03:36
Speaker
You're like, okay, but you haven't earned that. You haven't, like, you're not actually saying anything. Like, yeah, like he's lost faith in humanity, but like why? Because like some guy was mean to him and took his wife, it took his mom. You know, that's a little, that's a bit of a reach. Like, okay, he wants you to like, this bad guy took your mother and he wants you to kill this other superhero.
01:03:58
Speaker
and you're like, oh, nothing stays good in this world. I'm like, that feels like a bit of a reach. Like that feels like you have to like, yeah, it's a heartbreaking moment to hear Superman say like, no one stays good in this world, but like,
01:04:12
Speaker
you're not saying what you think you're saying. In fact, what you're saying is something worse. And that's just true of the entire, like all the films. It's just like, you're not, yeah. And now I'm just repeating myself. I mean, I think my whole thing is comparing this to the Whedon cut, I go back and forth over which one I think is better because on the one hand, I think you make some good points and in a lot of ways it is better than the Whedon cut. I will say it's more consistent than the Whedon cut.
01:04:40
Speaker
That's one of the things that it definitely has going for it, but it's just so long and so overindulgent. And it's just like the way the characters are portrayed is it knocks it down. Like the Weeden Cut, for all its problems, it's short. And at least Superman is acting like Superman. Like those are the two things that I keep coming back to. Yeah, I agree. Like it's one of those things where it's like,
01:05:06
Speaker
The Weed and Cut is a mess, but the characters act like the characters they're supposed to be at least at this point in their lives. Except for Barry, but that's a whole other thing. That's a whole other thing. The story doesn't really make sense. It's kind of all over the map as a Frankenstein, whereas the Snyder Cut is a cohesive narrative that
01:05:30
Speaker
is one man's or like one man's point of view on these characters. It's sort of like,
01:05:39
Speaker
And this is going back in my in my pulp days, like I am a big believer in there needs to be various versions of characters. And a big early falling out I had with some other pulp writers was like, I didn't mind the South Rogan Green Hornet because I'm like, well, we never had this kind of Green Hornet before. You know, I think the reason why Batman
01:06:00
Speaker
has existed for so long is because we had the Adam West Batman, and then we had the Michael Keaton Batman. You have two various versions of these characters. So, you know, I don't necessarily like Snyder's version of these characters, but at the same time, I'm glad we have them so we know we have that range. In some ways, it's good for Superman,
01:06:26
Speaker
long-term because it's one of those things where, all right, we see what doesn't work. There's a reason why this doesn't work. There's a reason why Superman on the lowest resonates so strongly with cats like us, because it's like, oh, that's right. This is what we want from Superman story. And this is important. Think about it this way.
01:06:46
Speaker
really for the longest time, there's really been, there's the comics Superman for the longest time, which has been fairly consistent. Like, there's like, there's a silver age, the versions of it, and like, this story has got weird, but consistently, he's always been like, you know, with some exceptions, like he is a beacon of hope, he is the best version of us, right?
01:07:07
Speaker
um and there are stories like Elswood's where he gets flaws that he's bad whatever but like the there's you know in the mainstream audience there is the Kirk Allen there's George Reeves there's not there's a lot of there's no big difference between George Regan and Kirk Allen besides performance then there's Christopher Reeve and he's sort of his his own sort of thing that
01:07:33
Speaker
like that looms so large that it went to Superman Returns. And the audience was like, look, we were done with this kind of Superman. Give us one that punches. We want to see that. We want to see the punching Superman. And we got that in Man of Steel. We got that in the Snyder Cut and Batman versus Superman. But that helps us understand of like, no, maybe that's not what we want. It's not just the punching. That's the thing. Yeah.
01:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's why that's I think that's one of the reasons why Tyler Hoechlin Superman is resonating so much. And I think that's also one of the biggest issues I had with Man of Steel is that Warner Brothers like, this is the only Superman we're going to have. And it's like, well, when you're telling me this is the only Superman we're going to have, I'm going to hate it. Like, but if you're telling me like, this is a Superman, this is an Elseworld. Oh, by the way, we got Tyler Hoechlin over here.
01:08:27
Speaker
I'd be much more amenable to Zack Snyder's vision in that case. Yeah. Yeah. And to that point, we talked about it earlier. That's why I'm a little less hard on... I mean, look, I still think Batman versus Superman is hot garbage. I hated every single second of what we watched in that movie. It was the longest three hours of my goddamn life. I think it's just a bad movie. But overall, I can now look at this trilogy and be like,
01:08:57
Speaker
let be less critical of it, because I'm like, okay, now it's just a version of Superman. It's not the version of Superman. Well, it's like, if you also look at the, the, the injustice comics, right, based on the video game, when I first heard about that, that first issue where the Joker kills, Joker tricks Superman into killing, like, I thought, like, this is really stupid. And then I actually read it, I'm like, okay,
01:09:19
Speaker
This is actually not bad. I actually kind of enjoyed this. This is actually kind of a fun comic book, but it's an else world. That's what makes it okay. Yeah. And also to, and this is something going back to our discussion with MCU. Like I think that what I do, even though like I'll have issues with their storytelling choices and some stylistic choices, the thing that they've done consistently well is what is the most iconic version of that?
01:09:47
Speaker
a character. You know, I think their Steve Rogers is the version, is the distillation of every Steve Rogers to make the most idealized version of Captain America. Same with Spider-Man, same with Iron Man. All these characters, you look at them like
01:10:04
Speaker
That is the perfect version of this character. It takes all these different story elements from all these different places and makes the version that feels like that we've all sort of had in our head, you know, like sort of like a collective unconscious version of these characters.
01:10:20
Speaker
with Snyder, what he did instead was very much like, this is my version of these characters and they're the tent pole. It's saying like, again, it's like it took an elf's worlds and made it the chief, the earth prime. Whereas if, let's say it was the reverse where Tyler Hoachland's Superman, who is a more iconic Superman was like, all right, this is our earth prime.
01:10:46
Speaker
you know, you can criticize them as much as you want, but then we're having this Elseworld version over here. You know, we have this Elseworld version of like, what if he gets dark? What if Superman gets evil? Or like, you know, it's just, I feel like they inverted. They did the inverse of what the MCU did. Instead of like trying to find like the version that appeals to everyone, they were like, what's the one version that appeals to this one guy? And you can only have this one version. Yeah. And every other. So, yeah.
01:11:12
Speaker
And I was, well, going back to what we're saying about Joker too, I kind of had the same feeling with Joker when, because I'm like, I'm one of those people who thinks that the Joker should not have an origin story. You should not know who he is. Like that's part of the terror of the Joker is like he can be anybody and he's just kind of like a force of nature, right? And like the Joker is not a character, right? He's just like this force of nature. He's whatever,
01:11:37
Speaker
the opposite of batman is right he's he's the he's the chaos to batman's order that's that's how he right and like whatever version you see if the character is always in relation to what version of batman you're talking about so you got the the chris nolan batman who's very much crowned in the real world so this joker
01:11:53
Speaker
didn't have a bath in acid. He doesn't use like, you know, you know, exploding teeth or anything like that, right? He uses guns and bombs and real world stuff. And then you go back to like the Michael Keaton version where it's like, you know, this is a darker Batman, but it's in kind of like this Burton-esque fantasy world. And the Joker reflects that too. And then, you know, the Adam West version, right? You've got, you know, this very campy Batman. So you've got this Joker who's just more of like a nuisance than anything else.
01:12:19
Speaker
Yeah. And it's also interesting, like, in all those versions, like, I still feel like Batman was relatively consistent. Like, they sort of, like, are molded to the world they're in, but, you know, like, you know,
01:12:35
Speaker
even though Batman kills in the Burton superhero, the Burton version, it doesn't feel, I can watch this and I'm like, oh, that doesn't feel weird, right? It doesn't feel weird that he's using a gun, but there's something about the way that it's portrayed that Snatter betrays the brutality of it. So it's like one of those things where like I was saying like where,
01:12:55
Speaker
Marvel makes these iconic versions, and you know, Batman in the Burton version and the Adam West versions, they're all, and even the Nolan versions, they're all still that iconic version that are sort of like, that are like sort of fit into this filmmaker's take, whereas I think
01:13:16
Speaker
Snyder took these characters and reshaped them to fit his world. Yeah. And I'm not sure if I'm explaining it accurately because I think it's a little bit more nuanced than that because it is like, well, I want Batman to kill people. So I'm going to do these things and do these things and like, and change his narrative so that way it works. Whereas I think that
01:13:40
Speaker
No one's like, well, like Batman doesn't do this, doesn't do this, doesn't do this. How do I make that work in the story that I want to say? The story that I want to tell, you know, like same thing with Adam West Batman, like, well, Batman has all these gadgets, he is very upright and this is like, how do I make that work in this version of the story? You know, yeah, whereas, and again, I might be repeating myself, but with Snyder, it's,
01:14:06
Speaker
Batman version is like Superman is Batman to keep it consistent. Like Batman doesn't kill. He believes in justice, but I want my Batman to be harder and darker. So I need to reshape who he is so I can tell that story. Right. So yeah.
01:14:34
Speaker
And she's like, when you think, when you look at everything Snyder had planned going forward, like the whole thing with like Batman and Lois having a kid and all that, you can get the pregnancy test and I'm just like, what are you doing? It's just... Yeah.
01:14:48
Speaker
And I don't understand the like I think Snyder's like we said he's really good visual guy I think Army of the Dead looks amazing. I'm looking forward to seeing that more stuff like that from Zack Snyder right you know, do that stuff you're good at that stuff stick to that kind of stuff.
01:15:05
Speaker
You know, but it's like, or like, you know, have him do a question movie or something like that because that's very much in line with his like, yeah, yeah. That's actually one of the weirdest things. So this is something that I talked a lot about with a couple of friends of mine with what's interesting about Snyder is that by all accounts.
01:15:22
Speaker
he is a really decent guy. Yeah, he is like he takes care of his crew. He takes care of his actors. He like goes out of his way like mother that motherfucker shut like called out the geeks and gamers on their goddamn feed. Like the guy is not a bad person. No, not at all. But any stress imagination. But like the stories he tells are like, you know, they're like, well, that's
01:15:46
Speaker
worrisome. And that's troublesome. And that's like, um, and again, I think maybe this goes like, it's, and Randi in it or whatever, but like, it's weird. It's, it's this weird economy of like someone who seems to be a genuinely good person who takes care of his family, who cares about the people he works with, who does everything right. Like, I mean, I mean, and then tell stories that are
01:16:12
Speaker
don't seem to connect with the person he is on a day-to-day basis, which is comparatively like you have Joss Whedon, who is like a, apparently a monster, telling the stories about female empowerment. And it's like, here's a guy who is literally using his power as a man in a creative field to abuse women. And he's telling these stories that are female empowering. So it's that weird disconnect. It is, it is, yeah. I'll never understand it.
01:16:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I saw this coming up on Twitter
Creator's Work vs. Personal Actions
01:16:44
Speaker
a lot. Like I saw someone mentioned that they preferred the Whedon cut to the Snyder cut and someone responded like what, but Whedon's a monster. I'm like, well, yeah, he's a monster, but it, you know, he's still, you can be a monster and be a good storyteller. Like, I mean, they're not, those are mutually exclusive concepts. Like Roman Polanski as well, he's a fucking monster, but Rosemary's Baby is an amazing movie. Yeah.
01:17:10
Speaker
Yeah, my girlfriend and I were talking about that the other day. Somehow we came up in conversation, I forget exactly how. Though she's never watched it once upon a time on Hollywood and she wants to watch it and I was really excited about that. Oh, that's a good movie. Yeah. I watched that movie and first time I watched it, I'm like, eh, it's okay. And it wasn't like the second time I watched it. I liked it a lot more. I'm not sure why, but it just appealed to me more the second time around.
01:17:37
Speaker
What's interesting is like, I have an interesting relationship with Tarantino.
Tarantino's Alternate History Films
01:17:40
Speaker
I really like his latter day stuff. I mean, I really like, I mean, I love Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I really love Inglorious Basterds and Django Unchained, these like alternate history stories, which is like, and I think it's partially because they're alternate history stories that I appreciate them more. Excuse me. I remember with Inglorious Basterds, like I was like watching it. I'm like, I don't really, this is fine. I'm really, it's a good movie, but like,
01:18:05
Speaker
they're gonna lose, what's the point of this? What's the point of telling that, oh, they killed Hitler. Okay, all right, you've told the story. And with Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, it was like, the fact that it took a turn at the end, I'm like, oh, you're doing it again. And I was like, all right, all right, I'm down with it. And I think, you know, yeah, it's weird, like those, his films grow on me, especially like his later day films, like Django, like this is fine. And like, oh, this is actually really good. This is actually,
01:18:33
Speaker
It's, and I forgot what other films he's come out with recently. Hateful Eight, that's an interesting film. Like, Hateful Eight is one of those movies that I really need to rewatch again. I really want to get it on 4K because I really want to, because I know he shot it in like 70 millimeter, but like it's an Agatha Christie mystery, but like in a Western, it's really violent.
01:18:51
Speaker
Yeah, I gotta watch that because I watched it and didn't appeal to me too much, but it felt like just very, felt like, kind of like some of the same problems it felt with the Snyder cutters. It felt a little over long and a little over indulgent. But, you know, but maybe I gotta watch it again because I kind of felt a little bit like that with Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. The second time around, I liked, I loved it. So, maybe I just got to give it another chance.
01:19:17
Speaker
I think the hardest thing about with Heath Laid is that it is a bit like the bar scene in Inglourious Basterds, where you just know it's all going to go to shit real soon. Whenever I rewatch Inglourious Basterds, I love that scene, but I skip it every time because I'm like, I can't deal with this pressure. I think one of the problems with Inglourious Basterds doesn't have this problem, but I think a lot of his later day movies, they have, I think they need a better editor.
01:19:44
Speaker
Like when he was working, I think it was Roger Avery was his editor before? No, it was a woman named Sandy. I'm actually gonna look that up because I'm actually kind of curious. No, she passed away at some point like during, I can't remember which movie, but like they had like a little thing where like everyone would like,
01:20:09
Speaker
say to like, hi Sandy or something. It was Sally. Yeah, it was Sally Mink. She did all, she did everything he did in the like, hi Sally, hi Sally. And then she passed away in 2010. And I think that's why a lot of his earlier stuff is a little bit tighter. Yes, yeah, I think so. I think he needs a, I think he needs a, and now he's got so much clout, like he can-
01:20:40
Speaker
Sorry, once more. You got cut off. You got cut off. Okay. We both got cut off on each other side. But anyway, you said what was the last one she did? Inglorious Basterds. Okay, okay. So yeah, that's why I think like Inglorious Basterds did not have that problem.
Reining in Creative Indulgence
01:21:00
Speaker
But after that, like, you know,
01:21:02
Speaker
Um, the ones after that, definitely, I think they had, they had a little bit of that self and too much indulgence. And I mean, part of the reason too, it's just like, he's, he's such a big name now that he doesn't, that nobody's going to reign in Quentin Tarantino. So yeah. Yeah. And that's sort of like this. And that's an issue with like Snyder. It's just like, he had the ability to do the version he wanted to do with the Snyder cut and like, God bless him. Like, you know.
01:21:28
Speaker
And it's one of those things where like, and I'm sure you've had this conversation with editors. I know I had it with Tommy when I was working on Crimson Circle. We're like, I knew what the story was and I was telling the story and he's like, you need to cut this down. I was like, no, no, no, no, he was right. And I think that having someone there, and my girlfriend's another great person of being like,
01:21:49
Speaker
like you're better than this line. Like having someone there to sort of like rein you in, I think is always important for a creative endeavor. And I don't think Snyder with the Snyder cut had anyone say, he didn't have anyone saying like, maybe bring it back a bit. The only thing he did was,
01:22:08
Speaker
it was uh the green lantern thing right because he wanted that that nc he wanted green lantern instead of uh martian manhunter and we're and it's such a weird thing for warner brothers to push back on like i don't like i i don't understand their rationale for that because they're like well we got a green lantern well i'm like it's this is a this movie is not doesn't mean anything so i'm not sure why it matters to you if green lanterns gonna appear or not it just it was such a yeah that was
01:22:34
Speaker
Yeah, I was confused about that whole situation. I mean, but Warner Brothers will do this. They'll have like these strange rules that don't seem to make sense. Like when they were doing...
01:22:43
Speaker
they were doing Justice League right and they said that uh the the animated series I mean um and they had uh they couldn't have any of the Bat family characters right they could only have Batman in it but none of the no Nightwing no no Batgirl no no Robin none of the Batman villains you couldn't have any of those in Justice in Justice League Unlimited especially yeah um it was like it was a weird rule they had in place because they're like well because
01:23:07
Speaker
Batman's being done in the movies.
Warner Brothers' Character Restrictions
01:23:09
Speaker
And it's like, okay, but, and then they had Smallville, right? They had the same thing where, because Smallville wanted to do, the writers of Smallville, they wanted to do a story where Bruce Wayne comes to Smallville.
01:23:20
Speaker
And Warner Brothers said, no, because we're doing Batman in the movies. And it's like, but you're also, as you're doing this Superman TV show, you're also doing a sequel to Superman II in the movie. So it's like, you can have those two versions, but you can't have two versions of Batman. They've got these really weird rules about these types of things.
01:23:39
Speaker
I'm actually then really curious to see what Abrams is gonna do at Warner Brothers, because he's sort of like notorious for that, because like he really wanted, like when he took over Star Trek for a while, he really wanted only his version of Kirk to be in like Kirk and Spock and them to be around. And he's like, you have to cancel like these IDW comics and books with the old Kirk. Oh, wow. But because Paramount,
01:24:03
Speaker
uh at that time what didn't like CBS owned those versions like they own the TV series so they can they could do TV series comics you know like they like Paramount had no say over so because that split you couldn't do it and part of the reason why uh
01:24:20
Speaker
uh Star Wars rebooted this is not 100% Abrams was because uh like they these like I want to start fresh so kill everything else off we're gonna start fresh which I think was the right choice for Star Wars for a number of reasons but um you know he so now that like thinking like with Wonder Brothers like who's like that I'm really curious to see how they're going to handle like
01:24:42
Speaker
are they gonna let him have his black Superman and have Superman on TV and do like other versions of like the Joker that they're doing, you know? Yeah, it's really, I'm really curious to see if he's gonna let that
Black Superman and Superman Variants
01:24:53
Speaker
happen. I'm especially wondering, cause I, the whole idea of, and this is something that Derek talked about a lot was like he said,
01:25:01
Speaker
when the whole thing about JJ Abrams coming on and gonna be a black Superman. And we talked about this, I think in maybe the last episode or the one before that, so it was like episode 59 or 60. And Derek's whole thing was, he's like,
01:25:16
Speaker
you don't need to make Clark Kent black. And like, he's like, I don't see, his whole thing was like, I don't see a reason to, instead of making Clark Kent black, you know, you can have a black Superman, but, and I think like, I'd be much more interested in seeing like, the Calvin Ellis Superman, because he becomes president, right? So like seeing like, a black Superman who's also a black president would be much more interesting, I think, than just a black Clark Kent or like Val Zod from who's the black Superman in the Earth Two books.
01:25:45
Speaker
I think those might be a little bit more interesting and show us something a little bit new because we're already getting a perfect rendition of Clark Kent on TV anyway. Yeah. And that's always an interesting conversation about either swapping genders or swapping races with characters, because there are really interesting stories that you can tell with the character in a different race or in a different gender.
01:26:16
Speaker
It's interesting because dealing with legacy characters, you're always like, how do I make this feel fresh for a modern audience without, well, not like, yeah, it's like, I understand what, with, yeah, it's weird. Cause like, I, like, I don't have an issue necessarily with like,
Race Swapping in Superhero Films
01:26:33
Speaker
if you're gonna like cast a new version of Superman and making black, I don't necessarily have an issue with that. But I do see Derek's point. It's sort of like, well, do you really need to like, there's already other versions, why not tell that version of it? So yeah, it's trying to think of another, like a good example of where they've swapped a race. Have they done that in Marvel at all or? Yeah, Nick Fury.
01:27:05
Speaker
It's weird, but that's an interesting thing where like, because Nick Fury, he's an adaptation of Ultimates, like where that was already there. And it was a sort of like, he was an alternate version of Nick Fury. And then they just chose to like, well, he looks like Sam Jackson and Sam Jackson will say yes to anything. Why not just have a Sam Jackson? So yeah, that's a unique version of it, of an example, but it's,
01:27:24
Speaker
Right, right, right. But it's
01:27:32
Speaker
When they had Michael B. Jordan play the Human Torch in Josh Tranx. Yeah, that felt really forced because they were like, how do you like... Yeah, the whole thing with his relationship to Sue and all that, that was kind of... A lot of things in that movie felt forced.
01:27:52
Speaker
just focusing on that character. I thought he did a really good job. I thought he was pretty much Johnny Storm. He was just a black Johnny Storm, but he was very much that character. Yeah. So yeah, it's one of those things where it's weird.
01:28:09
Speaker
And look, I see this as a white passing cis white male. Like, you know, like I, I'm, I'm an Hispanic, uh, my father's Hispanic. I'm, I am half Hispanic. So I always feel weird talking about race, especially when I look at talk and sound white. Um, but it is one of those things where, yeah, it's an interesting conversation. Like I think there's, there is a, a.
01:28:32
Speaker
a lot of storytelling opportunities with having a Black Clark Kent, but to Derek's point, like there's also like, why not just use this other version? Or like, you know, like, so yeah, it's a tightrope and it's a tightrope. Again, I as a white passing cis male should not be walking. It is, I think it's something, and I think that's actually, that's one of those things, I think it should be one of those things that if you are going to,
01:29:01
Speaker
I have a black Clark Kent, a black Clark Kent, having Teneshi Coates write it. That's probably, that's like, that's the best version of it. Like having a black man write this story. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things like I was kind of like,
01:29:17
Speaker
I got a lot of the same, I think I'm somewhere between like your and Derek's point of view on this, like I'm somewhere in the middle between those two. But I think the fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates is writing it is definitely, you know, say like, oh, okay, well, it's it's Coates, so I'm gonna I'm gonna watch it no matter what.
01:29:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, his is, you know, I mostly know him from it from his comic book work. And like, you know, his Black Panther was great. His Captain America is amazing. And I have to read it. I've heard it's really good. It's really good. And so like him writing Superman. Yeah, I'll sit through that. Even, you know, whatever reservations I have over whether or not I think it's necessary to have a black Clark Kent. Like if it's coach right now, I'm going to I'm going to watch it. That's that's just the way it is.
01:30:03
Speaker
And also, it also kind of goes back to what we're talking about with Isaiah Bradley and the Captain America stuff. Like, you know, you're telling stories about a black Captain America, but it's not Steve Rogers, because Steve Rogers is a whole different thing. Instead, you've got, you know, Sam Wilson, who's, you know, this guy who's got military history and all that, and there's a whole lot of stuff you can deal with that. Or also, I don't know if you ever read the crew comic book that Christopher Priest did way back in the day.
01:30:30
Speaker
It was like after his Black Panther work? I didn't know. OK, so it was like it was like after Black Panther, he did this. It was a it was like only seven issues. It was called The Crew. And it was like it was like Jim Rhodes. It was Casper Cole, who was at the end of his Black Panther run. Another character, Junta, who was also a minor. He appeared a few times in Black Panther. And then he had the son of Isaiah Bradley, Josiah Josiah X, who would who was kind of like if Malcolm X had become Captain America.
Josiah X and Black Captain America
01:30:59
Speaker
And it was just like this really interesting take because he was, not only was he a black man who had been, who inherited the super soldier serum and had fought in, I think they had him fight in the Korean war or something like that, but then also after that,
01:31:18
Speaker
he was involved in the civil rights movement. He became a Muslim. So you've got to, not only a black guy is Captain America, but a black Muslim guy is Captain America. And that had like, so, and I've like, and as much as I love Sam Wilson, as much as I think that he is like, you know, the right successor because of his long history with cap, part of me kind of wants to see like Josiah X is Captain America and see like what storytelling opportunities that would open up.
01:31:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of those things, man. I just, to go back to that, like, I think that I get, that's my biggest frustration of Falcoma as a soldier is that like, um, not really diving as deep into the race story is it, I think that's like, like,
01:32:07
Speaker
It's weird though, like I said all the times back to the static cut, like I feel like Marvel has a tendency of
01:32:14
Speaker
telling a story that they don't really dig deep
Marvel's Storytelling vs. Snyder's Approach
01:32:20
Speaker
into. They'll sort of like, tee that it, and you're like, oh, this is about something, but we're not really gonna dive too deep into that because we need to push that money. Kind of like Tony Stark's alcoholism. They kind of touched on that a little bit, but then they're just kind of like, well, we can't make our tech pole superhero an alcoholic. So they just kind of like dived around it.
01:32:40
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like the same thing with that one soldier, like we'll talk about race, but we won't actually explore it beyond a couple of conversations. Right. Like what it means, like, you know, like little moments here and there.
01:32:54
Speaker
You know, it's, they'll, they know what they're trying to say, but they just don't really go into in depth as much as they could. Whereas cider in the cider cut, it's like, I, I knew what I want to, I knew what I want to say, scene to scene, but it doesn't all kind of come together to say anything at all.
01:33:12
Speaker
um where so like it's one of those weird things with like which do I prefer like I I guess I would prefer I do prefer the marvel like I'm like I rather be disappointed in not them not exploring a topic as deeply as I would like them to then having a film think it's saying something when it's not saying any or or it's contradicting it's all scene to scene right yeah yeah
01:33:39
Speaker
Okay. All right. So that does it. I think we've said pretty much all we need to say.
Closing: Social Media and Thanks
01:33:44
Speaker
So Adam, where can people find you? Anything you want to plug?
01:33:50
Speaker
Yeah, you can find me, I'm mostly included these days at Adam Land Scarsia. You can also follow me on Instagram at Adam Land Scarsia. You can check out my website, which is adamlandscarsia.com. And if you like anything instead of a storytelling and story ideas, you can just type in Adam Land Scarsia on Amazon or your favorite bookseller, pick up my Green Llama books, Sense of Fire, my comic book, my graphic novel, which is sort of like an evil Superman story, all things considered, but it's an alternate version of Superman. So there you go.
01:34:19
Speaker
And if you check out Wired or Ars Technica or Vanity Fair, you might see a video that I produced. I've got a cool video coming out about Quantum Leap very soon. And I really can't believe they'll let me do that. I don't...
01:34:35
Speaker
I spend a lot of company money on this thing. I do not know how they look when we do it. All right. Well, Adam. Oh, I'll rebuild Ziggy. I'll rebuild Ziggy for like thousands of dollars. Why? Because I want to. They say yes. Well, thanks for coming on. I think Derek would have definitely been pleased with this conversation. I think he would have been very happy that you were the one who first got to come up and follow him.
01:35:00
Speaker
uh on this show so thank you thank you so much for for agreeing to do this and uh we've got to do it again sometime definitely and i'm i'm thank you that it means so much so so much that you
01:35:19
Speaker
thought of me in this, and especially in relation to Derek, because he was such a good man. And I am honored. I'm honored, dude. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So that does it for this first episode of the new format of Superhero Cinephiles. From now on, we're just going to kind of do the introduction. We're going to be doing it this way. We're going to have a few different guests come on. And then we'll see where things go from there.
01:35:49
Speaker
One thing that will always remain true is that Derek will remain host emeritus of this show like this this show was as much I know he would he would have always said that all he did was show up and talk but you know he
01:36:01
Speaker
this show would not even have gotten as far as it has, if not for him in the first place. So, thanks so much for listening. If you're on YouTube, thanks so much for watching. Head over to SuperheroCinephiles on Facebook, is our Facebook group, superherocinephiles.com, or SuperCinemapod on Twitter and Instagram. Drop me a line, let me know what you think of this new format, if maybe you'd be interested in coming on, and we'll talk to you next time.
01:36:27
Speaker
You have been listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at SuperCinemapod. Join our Facebook group by searching for Superhero Cinephiles where you can interact with us and other superhero fans. If you'd like to support the show, you can become a regular supporter at Patreon,
01:36:43
Speaker
or make a one-time donation through PayPal, both of which can be found at our website, SuperheroCinephiles.com. If you buy or rent any movies through the Amazon links at our site, it helps support the show. Please be sure to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:37:16
Speaker
Thank you for listening and as always good night. Good evening. God bless.