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Crossover with Southampton
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Gavin joins Greg from the Daily Southampton podcast for a chat about The Cottagers and The Saints ahead of Saturday's clash.
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Transcript
Introduction and Fixture Overview
00:00:02
Speaker
Every club. Every day. The Global Sports Podcast Network. Hello and welcome back to the Daily Southampton and today the Daily Fulham part of the Global Sports Podcast Network.
00:00:16
Speaker
My name is Greg Elliott and today joined by my colleague from the Daily Fulham podcast, Gavin. How you doing mate, you alright? I'm alright Greg, thanks for having me on. How are you doing yourself? Yeah, not too bad.
00:00:29
Speaker
Now, we're We're heading into a fixture at the weekend at St Mary's against Fulham.
00:00:36
Speaker
For us, we've been calling this our sort of pre-pre-season building towards next year. And it's sort of a bit of a dead rubber for you guys as well, right? the Not a lot of movement up or down you guys can do at the moment.
Battle for Eighth: Europa Conference League Implications
00:00:50
Speaker
Well, I mean, you say that there is an interesting little... but It's probably not interesting to most fans of other clubs, but there is a little subplot about the race for Europe because of the success of teams in England this season in European competition. It looks like eighth place will secure Europa Conference League football for next season. So there is a little battle there between Fulham, Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford at the minute. But it looks like most of those teams don't want to get in it, judging by their fall.
Is European Football Beneficial for Fulham?
00:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, that is interesting. I actually didn't know about that at 8th place going up for grabs. I guess that does give you something to really fight for the end of the season. but yeah so i mean it it Is that what you guys are hoping? they A nice couple of European away days? Would that be good? Or you good do you think that the extra fixtures that that might impose would sort of hand your chances next year?
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting question, isn't it? I think 10, 15 years ago, there might have been a different answer. I think a lot of teams probably wanted to avoid European football because they know what the knock-on effect they had in the league for the following season.
00:01:52
Speaker
But feel like Fulham are an established Premier League side now that even they could... Even with the European trips on Thursday nights, they feel they could cope. Obviously, as Southampton have found out this season, the the challenge from stepping up to the Premier League from the Championship is is one that's getting increasingly difficult. So it'll be the same next season where the three promoter teams will be the favourites to go back down. So there is that, I suppose, reassurance from that, um that you can...
00:02:15
Speaker
combine europe with the primary league so yeah, there's no doubt that Fulham fans will all want to get back in Europe
Fulham's Consistency Issues
00:02:22
Speaker
next season. And of course, they have happy memories from there in the past when they did get in did get to the final albeit of ah of the Europa League back in 2010.
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, the form a little bit worrying at the minute, but as I said earlier... That's the scribe, right? Like it's struggling to string anything together and build momentum from what think. Yeah, it's it's it's been like that all season. They've not won any more than two games at a time. Well, that's the thing that's held them back and that's probably why they are where they are Marco Silva says it every week that they should have more points than they do but ultimately the sides that contending for those Champions League places they've just been able at one point or another to string a run of wins together which Fulham haven't been able to up until the Chelsea game last week it was win-lose, win-lose, win-lose and then
00:03:06
Speaker
It finally ended that streak where they lost back-to-back games in the most terrible fashion, agonising way, losing in the 93rd minute. So there's been no real momentum, but there is something to play for in the last five games. so and And also, I've said this before, the chance of breaking their points tally for the Premier League, which stands at 53. So it would almost be disappointing if they were to not surpass that at this stage now.
00:03:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's not not a million miles away. and i suppose coming into the weekend, you've got to so almost think that that's a given based on our form coming into the game compared to yours.
00:03:41
Speaker
Well, that's the problem in itself because Fulham, if you remember back to the game at Craven Cottage, they would have gone into that game as heavy favourites. And then it was a nil-nil draw, very insipid performance. i didn't have many many chances in the whole game, to tell the
Fulham's Performance Against Strong vs. Defensive Teams
00:03:53
Speaker
truth. So that's where Fulham have come unstuck this season almost, is in these sort of games where they are expected to win, where there is ah an emphasis on them.
00:04:02
Speaker
They have come come unstuck and it's actually the results in the games where you don't expect them to do well in, where they've kind of surprised you, which is epitomised by that performance against Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, defeating them, just the second team to do that this season. So these sorts of games come with their pitfalls for Fulham.
00:04:18
Speaker
So I don't think any Fulham fan will be counting their chickens the hell of this one. Do you think that's like a mentality thing? Because like just not getting as... like mentally prepared and built up or excited for the game?
00:04:30
Speaker
Or do you think that that's just them sort of struggling to break down teams that tend to sit back a bit more and play with a bit less an attack and threat and park the bus a bit?
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's definitely a combination of that. They do seem to struggle against those sides that sit in, 10 men behind the ball, struggle to break them down. At times, there's been a lack of creativity, but I also think there's been an element of complacency. Maybe they're approaching these games with the wrong attitude. Sometimes the atmosphere at Craven Cottage for these games has been a little bit flat, which then has a knock-on effect. The players don't feel...
00:05:03
Speaker
So up for it or maybe it's just the case there is that complacency and they feel all they have to do is turn up and win the game. And, you know, in the Premier League, every result is earned, not given to you. So... yeah Yeah, as I said, there is disappointment in that. But as a Premier League footballer, ah the intensity needs to be there for all the games, not just be able to turn it on turn it off like a tap, not just get yourself up for the big games.
00:05:27
Speaker
ah The games against Southampton and those teams near the bottom end of the table is just as important. Absolutely. Every game counts and we've learnt that the hard way this season, that's for sure. I guess where's where's going to hurt us coming into the weekend? though what's what's the main Who's the main player that needs to sort of hit the ground and find a bit of form to to put us away?
00:05:49
Speaker
Where are the goals coming from?
Key Players for Fulham
00:05:51
Speaker
I'm very excited the fact that Harry Wilson is back fit. He did get some minutes off the bench in the last game, so maybe he might be someone that's pushing for a start.
00:06:00
Speaker
Awobi as well. There's been some criticism about Alex Awobi recently about maybe a little bit of a drop-off in the second half of the season because I feel like the first half of the season, he was Fulham's standout player. But he has scored a couple of goals recently in the last two games at home.
00:06:14
Speaker
So I think he's someone you've got to look out for as well. that but That was too many names. I think we're ah there's always a risk, I guess, of coming into it and feeling like we're in trouble.
00:06:25
Speaker
But that has been the case most of the season. But do you think that it is the game where they sort of break that streak of, obviously, we sort of ground out the draw in the away leg, but do you think you've got that in you to sort of go one past
Fulham's Away Form and Southampton's Situation
00:06:41
Speaker
that and away?
00:06:43
Speaker
I think so, because I think unlike the game at Craven Cottage, Southampton playing at home and they've got nothing really to play for, okay, okay they want to get past 11 points, don't they? So they don't want to, they're currently joint worst Premier League team of all time, along with Derby County. They don't want to be in that conversation at all, do they? So they will open up a bit in front of their own fans. So that should play into Fulham's favour.
00:07:05
Speaker
So I know we'll talk about the game itself a little bit in the third part, but I think Fulham, just as long as the intensity level's there, I think they've got a good chance really of... stemming this loss in form, which has been for four defeats in five in all competitions. So look, if they can't beat Southampton this season, then they don't deserve to qualify for Europe, to beat to be quite honest.
00:07:25
Speaker
i ah That hurts to hear, but it actually feels pretty reasonable. Okay, we'll switch seats around and talk a bit about Southampton last season. But first, a message from our partners at Bionique.
00:07:38
Speaker
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00:07:59
Speaker
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Speaker
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Simon Rusk's Role at Southampton
00:08:19
Speaker
Okay, Kevin, I'm going to hand the reins over to you and let you ask me some questions about our horrendous season.
00:08:28
Speaker
OK, Greg, so i want to come on to the guy who's in charge for the weekend and he was actually in charge for the game earlier on the season. and That's the, I'm not sure what his role is, caretaker manager and that's Simon Rusk. What do you think the future holds for him? Does he want the job? I mean, if Sir Fantanata eke out a couple of wins in the last few games, is there a chance that they might look to keep him on beyond this season?
00:08:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really interesting question. It's one I don't know if even the board have the answer to. I think the problem is that you know the position we're in is the culmination of a lot of bad decisions from our board. And and more mistakes. I think bad decisions might be mis-selling it.
00:09:09
Speaker
Attempts to do right that have not gone well. And... you know We saw him like in his first game in charge against Juw away and he sort of got a point there.
00:09:20
Speaker
And since he's come back in, he's just doing the basics right. He's just playing players in the positions they're strong in and
Southampton's Structural Challenges and Strategic Overhaul
00:09:28
Speaker
getting them to play football in a natural way.
00:09:32
Speaker
which is really where we struggled the rest of the season, trying to crowbar these players into systems that they're just not built for. I think that if he is given ah if he does get the results this season, I don't know if it would be a popular decision to keep him on as manager, not reflection him necessarily,
00:09:52
Speaker
not as a reflection on him But as reflection and as it wouldn't show the the sort of willpower from the board that I think we want but to to get ourselves back to that place where we're but like a confirmed Premier League team solidified in the league where where we were for so many years before this sort of up and down tumultuous period.
00:10:14
Speaker
I just think it would be lacking in vision. Yeah. I definitely think he will do himself well to stay in and around the team if he serves well.
00:10:25
Speaker
you know Him and and Adam Lallana has been brought on as his assistant. I think it will set them in good strength to be around the first team. But but you know he's come up from our under-21s as the under-21s manager. I just don't think that low level of experience is enough to match the vision that the fans have.
00:10:47
Speaker
Interesting and it's the second season in a row isn't it we've seen the three teams that come up from the championship ah go straight back down I know Ipswich haven't been confirmed they but they're as good as down aren't they and then Again, we've seen Burnley go straight back up and there's every chance that Sheffield United might fall on them as well in the playoffs.
00:11:03
Speaker
So it looks like that gap between the Premier League and Championship is getting bigger. What do you think it takes to bridge that gap? Do you feel like Southampton should have gone for it a bit more? Because I know Nottingham Forest took a lot of criticism a couple of seasons ago for their kind of reckless spending and just buying any player they they set their mind on.
00:11:25
Speaker
and look look they took a bit of a hit last season with a point seduction but they were always comfortable in their fight for survival and you look where they are now does it almost take that aggressive spending and being ruthless in the market not being so loyal to ultimately survive in this league yeah i mean i think they took a gamble and i don't think it's a gamble that our owners are going to put themselves in a position to do I don't know if it's fair to say that's what it takes, but I definitely think that the margins of error are much finer, right? like You need to make solid signings and all of them need to come good.
00:12:03
Speaker
ah And I think we've talked a lot about where it's gone wrong this season and a lot of it is from that transfer activity. and we we we sort We were busy and we bought quite a lot in in the summer, but the problem is that a very small percentage of that worked out. I think we've got maybe...
00:12:21
Speaker
maybe as many as three and a half, let's say, signings that have really sort of played out and come well. And, you know, but we, at the same time, we brought in players like Ben Broughton Diaz and Maxwell Corne, who, you know, Corne got sent back to West Ham in January off the loan and Ben Broughton Diaz, who we bought is out on loan at Sheffield United. So it's,
00:12:47
Speaker
It's been fractious. And I think instead of sort of hedging, I think the risk-free version is what they were playing for by trying to sign lots of these players for relatively cheap and you know see what sticks. Whereas think it's more important to sign a couple of really good players.
00:13:07
Speaker
that can really do the job. You know, we need a goal scorer, really, realistically. Like, it was all well and good spending £26 million pound on Aaron Ramsdale to play in goal for us, but but last that was never going to be the saving grace of our season. And it was such a, again, like a risk-free purchase because you know that you're going to be able to sell him for at least that much at the end of the season when we go down.
00:13:31
Speaker
So... it we need to take a couple of big risks. And that doesn't mean, like, put ourselves in risk of points deduction, level of risk. but But there definitely needs to be some big spending to get back to that position, for sure.
00:13:45
Speaker
So just following on from that, do you think the club have learned lessons, then, that ultimately would help prepare them better if they were to bounce straight back up? That's the hope. There's been an acknowledgement from the board that they've really let things slip. We've had a change in...
00:14:00
Speaker
on the board, a couple of of members have stepped down and the new chairman, the the main investors stepped up. Uh, we've brought in a director of football, which, you know, we did at the start of our championship campaign, you know, last season.
00:14:15
Speaker
um And then he got poached and sent off to Man United. And then we never replaced him and never really set in stone a proper footballing structure. think if you speak to any Saints fan, they'll say that the business side of the club has been doing all right. We've got new fan zones, we've got a new pub and and all of the, we turned a profit this year for the first time in of six years.
00:14:36
Speaker
But the football side has really been where the the the failings have occurred. And, there's hope that this new director of football will sort of imprint that vision. there's He's already been out in the press and taken ownership and taken responsibility and said that sort of the buck stops with him and it's, it's his responsibility to guide that vision. So,
00:14:58
Speaker
I think there's there's hope that that's what they've learned and that it can be picked up from there, but it's still an unproven hope, I guess, is the ah thing. You can hope they learn from the mistakes, but there's just as much of chance they might still make the same ones again.
00:15:13
Speaker
So just in terms of the playing staff, are you expecting a mass overhaul in terms of players coming in and going out? Or do you expect the squad you have now to form the nucleus for next season?
00:15:25
Speaker
I think we're going to have a huge overhaul. um I think there are going to be players that want to go, that don't get to go i think they're goingnna we've got a very bloated squad of a lot of players who have been trying to go for a long time.
00:15:40
Speaker
And I think we're going to be be seeing a lot of that come into play. To me, I think when we think about it, it's important to keep... Three or four really key players, but beyond that, I'm open to a complete clear out and start again, to be honest. We've got a few good players coming back off loan who will help bolster us to the championship next season. And hopefully as a sort of longer term project across the two years, we can start building something together that can make a slightly less feeble attempt at the Premier League the year after, fingers crossed.
00:16:17
Speaker
Yeah, so if you're being honest and realistic, if you're looking at the current crop of players you have, hand on heart, how many of those players do you genuinely think are actually Premier League quality?
00:16:31
Speaker
I think maybe four, and if you're including with the potential to become solidly Premier League quality, maybe as many as six.
00:16:43
Speaker
But it's, yeah, it's not a high number for sure. I did see something this morning about Troy Deeney thinks there's only two players of the entire 72 in the bottom three that would make it and I think that might be slightly harsh, but ah but yeah, it's not it's not high numbers.
00:16:58
Speaker
Yeah, and just finally, I know we we spoke about him, didn't we, earlier on in the season about your youngster, Diblin, and I think I've seen some quotes about certain prices about him going to other
Future Prospects and Talent Management at Southampton
00:17:08
Speaker
clubs. Do you feel like if he did go to, i don't know, one of the top six or top seven clubs in the country that it could kind of hinder his progress? Or do you genuinely feel like he could go into one of those clubs and make a name for himself? Yeah.
00:17:24
Speaker
I think, I genuinely think that a year in the championship with us would do him the world of good. think that at the start of the season under Russell Martin, he was really sort showing where he was coming strength to strength and hitting the ground running.
00:17:40
Speaker
He really struggled under Juric. And I don't know whether that was sort of a personality clash or ah real clash with the system and the style, but he really struggled to find real form under that situation.
00:17:54
Speaker
It's sort of seen him starting to try and get back strength to strength in this sort of pre-preseason era. But yeah, the £100 million pound price tag we've put on him, I think that that's more a statement of intent to keep than anything else, to be honest.
00:18:10
Speaker
Obviously, he's got so much potential and he could just step into a team like that and and you know make tracks. But I think if you look at... how young players with that potential have been treated in the past by clubs like that.
00:18:26
Speaker
Really, the more likely outcome would be that he'd just get lost in the sea out there somewhere and and fall away into a sort of obscurity and struggle with that path to the the first team.
00:18:38
Speaker
Whereas, you know I think a year in the Championship with us would give him a chance to really hone those skills where there are parts of his game where really needs to improve. and still do him good and set him in a good frame for, for after that.
00:18:53
Speaker
But that might just be the rose tinted glasses of hoping that he stays with us for another year, to be honest.
The Importance of Southampton's Premier League Return
00:18:58
Speaker
Yeah. And my last question is, well, obviously you've suffered a lot this season, haven't you? It might sound like a bit of a daft question.
00:19:06
Speaker
Do you want to come back up next season? Yeah, that's it's a tough one to answer. I think that, the reality is that squandering in the middle of the championship ah is probably just as not fun as suffering at the bottom of the Premier League. And there's a very real chance that if you don't make it back up in that first season before those parachute payments stop, after the sort of going down and coming back up, then there's a real risk of falling lower than that.
00:19:42
Speaker
So I think... it is important to come back up. I think it's just important that we make proper project of it. It doesn't necessarily need to be straight away.
00:19:55
Speaker
If, if the cost of doing it properly and coming back and giving it a fighting chance another year in the championship after the next season, then so be it. We need to do that. But yeah, the Premier League always needs to be the goal.
00:20:08
Speaker
No, I completely agree with that. You always want to get there, don't You've seen the euphoric scenes from Leeds and Burnley and over the last couple of days. And and and I'm just thinking to myself, well, you know, fast forward 12 months, how differently that could be. And they might regret coming up in a weird sort of way. But, you know whenever you you're presented with a chance of playing in a Premier League, you're never going to turn it down, are you?
00:20:29
Speaker
And you've got to suffer these lows of being a football fan to really enjoy the highs. There's no no fun being a Man City fan where you win everything all the time. You've got to suffer through the these dark periods to to make the trips to Wembley and all the other good stuff that comes with it worth it.
00:20:46
Speaker
Right, lovely. Well, that leads us nicely into our second break and a message from our partners at Zencaster. Here at the Global Sports Podcast Network, we spent a lot of time selecting our delivery platform.
00:20:57
Speaker
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00:21:09
Speaker
If you're ready to tell your story, check out the link in the show description and learn more about Zencaster. Okay, so let let's turn our eyes a bit more to the weekend and the
Match Predictions: Fulham vs. Southampton
00:21:20
Speaker
game. had How do you but you see it playing out?
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah. I think if Fulham take the game seriously, and they should, because there is something till still to play for, and those players will want to play in Europe next season, they probably think, yeah, I can play in European football. And obviously with that comes the extra demands, as we've already stated. But I feel like if Fulham showed the correct intensity and application to this game, then they they should come away with three points.
00:21:47
Speaker
And how many do you think it'll be by then as a win? Well, I think for the away form as well has just tapered off recently. I think they've lost the last three away from home after going quite a long period without losing on the road. So they'll want to put that right as well. So I feel like this is the ideal opportunity to that. So I think they'll score three and then it's whether or not they can keep the back door shut. I think ah we'll give Svantham a goal. I think 3-1 Fulham will come out winners.
00:22:16
Speaker
I think that might work out to be our average scoreline across the entire season, to be honest, a 3-1 loss. It certainly feels that way. Yeah, it'll be an interesting game for us. I think that think the players have shown that even though there's this sort of strange, like i alluded to it, of being a pre-pre-season feeling, there is some sort of fight in them ah that there really wasn't under the last manager.
00:22:41
Speaker
I think it will be a low-scoring affair, to be honest. Simon Rusk has made it pretty clear that his ideal football game would be to to not concede a goal, and that's how you win. Makes sense, doesn't it? yeah Yeah, if you keep a clean sheet, you're guaranteed to get something out of the game, i think is what he said in the press conference. So ah do i think it will be a but a rather cagey affair.
00:23:06
Speaker
But I think... ah I haven't predicted a Saints loss all season, so I'm horribly in the red when it comes to to these decisions. But I just feel like our home form has been so atrocious that we also need to put a stamp on it and start putting things right. And I think that...
00:23:27
Speaker
maybe a slightly painful 1-0 win is the way we're going to do it. Maybe we'll get a goal early on in the first 20-25 minutes and then just have a horrible defensive, like like a win at home that no one enjoys would just be so on brand for the entire season. and beyond Well, I mean, to be fair, Sarvantin do come into this game in form. They are one game unbeaten.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. You said earlier in the show, actually, that you guys struggled to string two wins together in a row, and that was the downfall of your season. And I have looked, and and obviously, we've only won two games all season.
00:24:03
Speaker
So it's it' is different levels, for sure. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. But but yeah, ah I think... Well, I think back to that away fixture, that they they really put lot of effort into shutting up shop and and taking away those opportunities. So feel like that's exactly how we'll go into this. And yeah, maybe we'll we trip over the ball and get it in the goal somehow and defend away for the rest of our lives through the game.
00:24:34
Speaker
That's potentially how I see it going. Yeah, i mean I mean, that's fair. I think there's one thing you can say about your interim, your are assist, your caretaker manager, whatever you want to call it, he seems like, okay, he's not certainly made these players better than what they are, but he's at least made them a little bit tougher to beat, as we saw in the game last week against West Ham. And um obviously they showed great spirit to get an equalising goal in stoppage time.
00:24:57
Speaker
And just looking back to the game earlier in the season where they were very tough to break down. So maybe if they had that if they had shown that bit more application and if difficultness, if that's a word, to to beat, then think they would have had more points than they currently do now.
00:25:12
Speaker
Yeah, well there's a lot to be said for sticking to the basics and playing football, how football supposed to be played and sort of playing players in their best decisions. I guess it also helps when we sort of play with a back five and two holding midfielders. That's a lot of space taken up that's quite hard to break down, so you can see how that would be more solid.
00:25:31
Speaker
It's definitely our forward options that are much more of a concern, to be honest. and Not many of them. so do you see Do you see him making changes from last week? or what's the What's the team? Do you have any injuries?
00:25:44
Speaker
ah nothing None that I've heard of. i think that it would be foolish to change it, to be honest. I think it would be sticking with more or less the same and maybe... depending on how the game flows out, maybe bringing on some of the youngsters towards the end is what we've seen happen a couple of times in the last couple of games. say But we'll see. Like I say, getting over that 11-point mark, as much as the manager plays it down, it's it is important. The players have said it's important.
00:26:13
Speaker
It's... you know and it's only one point away. So realistically, if that one point comes from eking out a nil-nil in a painful performance, it's still over the line. So yeah, I i think that that's how we'll see it play.
00:26:26
Speaker
But yeah, could... I so don't paint a particularly entertaining picture of the game there, so I'm hopefully not down-hearting anyone from from what's bound to be a very exciting game of football the weekend, for sure. As you as you said, you've been mostly wrong all season, so we might see a 5-4 thriller here then.
00:26:43
Speaker
That's true. 5-4's on the cards. That's way it's always about. As long as it's you know the the joy of a 93rd-minute winner for us, that's that's fine. That's a perfectly reasonable outcome. I don't think that we scored five goals all season.
00:26:55
Speaker
Sorry. In fact, our top goal scorer is Paul Wohanachu, who's managed to score four. So that's pretty worrying stuff. But absolutely. Well, that is just about all we've got time for today.
00:27:09
Speaker
yeah mean, thank you very much ah for joining me. Thanks, everyone, for listening. ah We'll be back tomorrow with our respective previews, I'm sure. Until then, you then.
00:27:24
Speaker
The Global Sports Podcast Network.