Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Big Bug Energy with Amelie Vanderstock
795 Plays1 month ago
🌼 A spring equinox special 🌼
Meet Amelie Vanderstock – science communicator, artist, musician, native bee pHD and total ray of sunshine.
Amelie has a passion for pollinator-friendly cities, and raises awareness through workshops, collaborative art and obscenely catchy songs that celebrate weeds, bees and bin chickens.
This ain’t just an interview about invertebrates – though, there’s plenty of insectivorous inspiration to be had – nay, it has a solid backbone of advice and solidarity for all those trying to merge their strange passions and professional skills, who are yearning for greater alignment and intentionality in everything, from study to travel to morning routines.
Amelie also has a crowdfunding campaign to support the release of her debut album Let’s Bee Scientists and the resource kit that goes with it, turning ecological knowledge into ear worms for the next generation of earth lovers. It’s extremely close to reaching its target! You can pre-buy the album which will expedite its release and help Amelie do more of her sweet work.
🧙♀️ LINKY POOS
Pre-buy Amelie Ecology’s album
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:03
Speaker
Resilience!
00:00:07
Speaker
Hey, this is Katie and you're tuned into Resilience, a podcast about the hard, soft and surprising skills that'll help us stay afloat if our modern systems don't. I'm gratefully recording on Awabakal and Wurrami country on the east coast of New South Wales, where I've been visiting family.
00:00:28
Speaker
This morning I spent a couple of hours editing the conversation that you're just about to hear, then I took a break to go to the beach. The weather's been changeable. Yesterday there was a stiff southwesterly breeze, colder than a cast iron toilet on the shady side of an iceberg. I pinched that from Reddit. But today was bright and sunny and beckoning, so I put on my swimmers, grabbed my towel and walked to the ocean baths.
00:00:54
Speaker
When I arrived at the turquoise shore and dipped my toes into the water, I flinched. It was freezing. Only a few brave souls were swimming while a larger colony of glistening sunbathers lolled on the concrete. I hummed an art about diving in, but chickened out, instead heading for a nice gentle entry ramp with a handrail.
00:01:17
Speaker
As I inched and winced my way into the water, drawing out the agony, I heard a sandy voice behind me say, take the plunge. I turned to see a blueberry in a sun suit wading past, an elderly gentleman with silver hair, sparkling eyes and the most perfectly spherical midsection you've ever seen.
00:01:38
Speaker
take the plunge," he said, and strode into the water without hesitation, small cold waves lapping over his belly. So I took a deep breath and duck-dived, and it was fresh and briny and totally free from regrets, as per the rules of swimming.
00:01:55
Speaker
If there's ever a time to take the plunge on anything, it's probably now. Spring equinoxes here and tiny beaks are pecking through eggshells. Seedlings are piercing the soil and pasty thighs are on parade. New life abounds. What have you been dreaming up?
00:02:11
Speaker
and putting off, what threshold wants to be crossed? Is it time to take that permaculture design certificate, that beekeeping course, that solo hike, that liberating pay cut? There's energy for it. Spring equinox, or a starra in the pagan tradition, is on September 22nd in the southern hemisphere, just a few days away if you've pounced on this episode promptly.
00:02:34
Speaker
Some people paint eggs or make altars to fertility and possibility, but if you're lucky enough to live by the water, I reckon there's no better way to greet spring than a sunrise swim. And I have a feeling that today's guest would highly approve of such a plan. Even though we actually recorded this convo a couple of months back, I think that a star is the perfect time to set it free because it is filled with oomph and joy and life force and bees.
Meet Emily van der Stock
00:03:01
Speaker
I was lucky enough to snag a conversation with Emily van der Stock, who you may know as Emily Ecology, a science communicator, artist and musician who's conducting a PhD on native bees and is an absolute ray of sunshine.
00:03:16
Speaker
Amelie has a passion for pollinator-friendly cities and raises awareness through workshops, collaborative art, and obscenely catchy songs that celebrate weeds, bees, and bin chickens. But this isn't just an interview about invertebrates, though there's plenty of insectivorous inspiration to be had. No, it has a solid backbone of advice and solidarity for everyone trying to merge their strange passions and professional skills.
00:03:42
Speaker
who are yearning for greater alignment and intentionality in everything, from study to travel to morning routines. I must tell you, too, that Amelie has a crowdfunding campaign to support the release of her debut album, Let's Be Scientists, turning ecological knowledge into earworms for the next generation of Earth lovers. It's extremely close to reaching its target, and you can pre-buy the album, which will expedite its release and help Amelie do more of her sweet educational work. And I'll link it in the show notes.
00:04:12
Speaker
If you're hankering for a taste of Amelie's ecological beats, she has kindly given me permission to share some of her music with you. So please enjoy this excerpt from her song, Concrete Jungle, where I've jumped in at my favorite bit about Ibises. So good. See you at the end of the episode for shout outs and enjoy this conversation
00:05:02
Speaker
drink coffee, mine was like an hour ago. like I wined and and waited until it's just the right moment so I could hold you there. You've always got to have a coffee on a stick. And actually, I was just thinking before we dumped in um about my coffee ritual is at the moment I get up and I light the fire and often the fire isn't hot enough to quite boil the stovetop coffee, but I really like trying to use that wood energy in as many ways as possible. But in my black coffee, I love having a big dollop of honey. And I actually go through quite a bit of honey.
00:05:40
Speaker
And some people shame me for sweetening my coffee in such a way, but other people say coffee and honey is like the bee's knees. So I'm wondering where you stand on putting honey in drinks as a bee expert. And also I've heard that that's kind of like a stick around how long it takes bees to make a teaspoon of honey. Like, do you have anything to say about how much I'm actually taking from the bee people with my honey and coffee addiction?
00:06:06
Speaker
Well, so it's a really interesting question and and firstly I have to say I'm not a honey bee keeper. I'm a stingless bee keeper and I am a native bee ecologist of all the other 2000 species that we have in Australia that are not the European honey bee. So i i'm I'm not like a European honey bee expert in any way.
00:06:30
Speaker
um However, my personal you know thought about it a lot place, um it's there's a few things that I hear. So one is we're putting the honey in the and the hot coffee. And I'm not sure about European honey, European honey bee honey, but in stingless bee honey, you actually lose a lot of those super amazing powerful magical properties.
00:06:54
Speaker
by heating it up too much. um So it's actually like better to have like a teaspoon, like a teaspoon of sugar helps the medicine go down. But like with stingless bee honey, it's like every time I get sick, I like have my little teaspoons of like stingless bee honey and I hold it in earnest and power and like, yeah, just knowing that that magic is going through me. um And there is definitely a step.
00:07:21
Speaker
honeybees need to make honey, but um I'm not sure what it is. Oh, that is such a melodious response. And I already have a hive of questions. Stingless beekeeping, can you please share a little
Bee Behavior and Ecology
00:07:35
Speaker
bit more about that? How does it differ? I know you just said that you weren't a honeybee expert, but what are the differences between those two styles? Oh, so might start from the beginning.
00:07:46
Speaker
which is that we have over 2,000 species of native bees in Australia alone. 20,000 in the world. What? And imagine how many words it's...
00:08:02
Speaker
a But the majority of our native bees are wild. um They're either solitary or semi-social and what that means is that they don't have queens or workers or a big colony or a hive necessarily. They're more like tiny little staunch single moms or single moms with lots of really awesome friends who work together and but hey they live in small little um like tunnel type nests so it might be a cavity in a tree it might be in the ground um but it's less of that kind of queenly colony type style
00:08:43
Speaker
which is like pretty mind-blowing because most of our bees don't make honey and don't have queens, which I think is totally radical. I'm just really interested in stingless beekeeping, so given that they don't actually, a lot of them aren't yeah working in the way that we typically imagine a beehive in a colony to be working, like what does it actually entail then?
00:09:03
Speaker
So stingless bees are the exception to that. So they are one of a few social bees in Australia that do have a colony and a hive and a queen and workers. And so the native stingless bees that I work with are just so beautiful they inside their hive is a spiral it's a spiral of eggs and the queen's laying in there and it's so stunning and you open up the hive to do like a health check or if you're gonna like propagate the hive and then there's these little pots of honey there's pots of gold all these tiny little bees running around this gorgeous spiral and it just oh so beautiful like i think you're in victoria who is that right
00:09:47
Speaker
yes Yeah, so I'm in the Blue Mountains on Duragan-Gundangara country in New South Wales and even where I live is a little bit too cold for them in winter so I keep my bees at my folks place over on Gadigal land where it's a bit warmer.
00:10:02
Speaker
Oh, nice. And this is, again, a beautiful smooth segue into something I wanted to ask you just as a relevant seasonal kind of question. What is the seasonality of bees? where When are they? And I know that this using the word bees feels like a kind of totally inappropriate term knowing how much complexity and how many species you've just shared with us and all of their different behavioral patterns and things. But yeah, those ones that you're keeping on the cusp of that climate zone there having to be a little bit yeah into the warmer climates like what are bees doing generally in the cooler months? What are some of those habits that might be fluctuating with the season? So this this two there's a lot of the spectrum in between but there's two main kinds of ways that bees live and the first is that that colony bee with the queen and the wackers
00:10:52
Speaker
And so the honey that they're keeping is just like us when we get an abundance in our beautiful permaculture gardens and we share it with our friends and then we pickle it for later and we have those jars of stored food ready for the winter. That's what bees are sort of doing with their honey. um In a similar way they're storing all that beautiful pollen and nectar power from the flowers that are abundant in spring and summer so that when it's cold in winter or when it's really rainy for a long period of time they can just munch on that honey in the hive and they're going to be totally fine. And because they've got this amazing architecture, they're really well insulated from the elements. So that's why we can have like a beehive in there, maybe a little bit quieter in winter, depending on where you are. um But they're they're just in the hive eating all their honey, having a really cute time. And then there's the solitary bees. Bear in mind, there's semi-social bees. There's a huge spectrum in between.
00:11:52
Speaker
But the solitary bees, um so for example a blue-banded bee, my favorite bee, they burrow into the ground. And so they emerge in springtime, they collect pollen and nectar, make beautiful little bliss balls for their young ones, and they spend the whole warm season just working on making a gorgeous nest. and laying their eggs and making sure they're beautiful, young, and happy. And then in that winter to time, the the adults have passed on. They're more of a yearly species, if that makes, yearly species. That doesn't make sense.
00:12:26
Speaker
ah they but Thank you. But yes, an annual fee, but they're um young ones will be in a state of like as an egg or as a lover or as a pupa in the ground, which again is really insulating. And they will emerge again in spring. So it's a bit different.
00:12:48
Speaker
yeah fascinating okay I have more questions about your spiralized stingless friends are you getting less honey from them or how do you feel about taking their stockpile of homesteaded larder honey filled jars like what's your ethical approach to that and also yeah is the quantity different ah so the quantity is absolutely different so for European honey bees I've heard that you can get about 20 kilos in a harvest, more if they're like there's amazing flowers and you might even get two seasons in a year. But our stingless bees, they're a tropical species. So up in like northern Queensland, for example, this would be a bit different, but where I live um down on kind of a cusp of where it gets a bit too cold for them,
00:13:42
Speaker
They really need that honey over winter to be able to survive the colder winter. um So i like my personal approach is I am passionate about native bees in schools, in preschools, in community gardens. and this like doorway into finding a curiosity for these insects. Cause they're so gentle. They're like little tickle bees and they're so beautiful. And what a way to meet these insects and get excited and inspired, right? And they don't sting. So, you know, that's a pretty big bonus in a preschool. um But um I don't personally harvest honey um because I'm more thinking about
00:14:29
Speaker
of what they might need in winter. However, when I i do um split to propagate hives, and in that process, I usually spill a little bit of honey. And so that I will always collect because zero waste. And then I will use that honey in workshops to allow beautiful people to taste to taste the flavor of our surrounding ecology. um So that's kind of how I approach it.
00:14:58
Speaker
Beautiful and can you describe that flavour for us Emily? ah it's wo It's like a lemon myrtle tea with a squeeze of lemon mixed with something sweet mixed with a little bit of love and something you've never ever ever could possibly imagine because it exists only in the bee power.
00:15:21
Speaker
How brilliant, you're like a thesaurus of buzzy bee flavour terms. That is so wonderful. One more question on your beekeeping practice, and I promise that this is not just an individualised beekeeping tutorial for me and me only. I want to talk about your bee education and I'd love to talk about bee and musicianship, but I mean, why don't people keep, or why don't more people keep stingless bees?
00:15:47
Speaker
is it simply because we kind of want the honey and that's the fruits of the labour or is it are we you like like this is a really daft question but I mean are we allowed to keep stingless bees and native bees well it is it's a question of geography as well like stingless bees aren't in Victoria it gets too cold for them in winter it's um out of their natural range um There are people in, especially in Queensland and the northern parts of Australia who keep stingless bees and will harvest honey. But um compared to European honeybees at about 20 kilos a year, a stingless bee hive could be around 1 kilo a year total. um So again, it's not a lot. They're also much smaller.
00:16:31
Speaker
um But um ah overseas, for example, in Indonesia and Malaysia there's um and South America, there's a really long, beautiful history and ongoing culture of native stingless beekeeping and honey harvesting.
00:16:47
Speaker
um And in Australia as well, absolutely, like the sugar bag, the, um the stingless bee, this, for example, the wax has often been used around the edge of the didgeridoos and other kind of resiny wax products. um The honey has been eaten since time immemorial. So there's a real like practice and culture around it.
00:17:11
Speaker
But I think that a lot of our um just kind of like colonial influences in Australia like the European honey bee came from Europe um along with Um, a lot, a lot of stuff. Um, and so that's just a more like kind of economic and like efficient and part of our larger farming practices that have like a Western colonial influence as well, I think. Cool. Yeah. Thanks for that answer. So I know that you have a PhD in bee puns because you're absolutely masterful at
00:17:54
Speaker
every single people under the sun. Yeah, Ph.D. Great.
PhD Journey and Research
00:17:59
Speaker
You're too good. Can you tell us about your official or academic Ph.D., what you're studying, what you've learned and, you know, basically your area of expertise and what you're passionate about? Sure. So my Ph.D. was such a beautiful, like, journey of of growth in connection and really shifted over the years that I was researching. um So firstly, I started in Australia looking at the role of community gardens and native bushland pockets in cities.
00:18:36
Speaker
for our pollinators, so our bees and our other pollinating insects. And I was really interested in how these kind of more cultivated spaces and these more bushy spaces could interact in how they support our pollinators to thrive in cities.
00:18:53
Speaker
And that looked like going around and observing a lot of plants and a lot of insects and sitting and watching plants for 10 minutes at a time. And it is the most meditative process that I think anyone can possibly do, especially when no one comes.
00:19:10
Speaker
um But what came out of that was this really interesting phenomena that community gardens and other big flowery gardens and cities actually play a really, they've got a lot of pollinators there. They they could play a really big role in supporting our pollinators to thrive in cities, but the bushland pockets had different species. So if we're not conserving our beautiful pockets of bushland and native vegetation in around cities, well, what might happen to those species species that are there? and And why aren't there other species there as well? So that's sort of kind of the the interpretation application of that research, but really looking at cityscapes for native bees and other pollinators.
00:20:03
Speaker
Then at some point in this PhD, I realized that we actually know so much beautiful information about bees and and I think that research is really blossoming. But um what I'm concerned about and where I think there's a huge gap is that communication and that education side of things like sure we might know stuff but but if people don't care or know about the stuff that we know then how can we put all that research into action so that's when my PhD and my research and what I do now really shifted in more of a communication education direction
00:20:40
Speaker
And I worked with young people in the Blue Mountains and we did this beautiful citizen science project where youth were designing the scientific research around the pollinators and native bees in the area.
00:20:55
Speaker
and they were teaching the primary school ah aged students and their families and we were doing replicates and doing these cool science experiments out in the community gardens and their gardens and looking for the pollinators that were there. So that was really rethinking how science education and creative communications and youth being empowered to be like the agents of their own research as scientists.
00:21:24
Speaker
So that kind of came into it and then I'm giving you the long story aren't I? And then we went to Japan and in Japan I was originally going to do a similar ah research study to here looking at urban insects and green spaces for insects. COVID happened and All my research had to go online or in a non-physical present way. I was still in Japan. But I'd made these beautiful connections in communities and something that I really noticed.
00:22:03
Speaker
was that there seemed to be a lot of fear around insects and invertebrates, especially in in the urban places that I was in, especially in Tokyo, for example. And and maybe there's more fear than here or not, but me coming in and being like this is really interesting I'm really noticing something here and so ah talking with other amazing researchers there was this phenomena called the extension of experience which was
00:22:38
Speaker
the idea that if we if we lose touch with nature then how can we care for nature and so my research went into more of a place of looking at attitudes towards insects, um attitudes towards invertebrates and how can we use like a garden like gardening and permaculture education as well as creative communication practice to support adults to fall in love with insects and yeah the research that came out of that.
00:23:14
Speaker
Oh my goodness, wow, this is really rich conversational territory. And one thing I will say is I i get quite obsessed with um those areas that a lot of people turn away from, that they're squeamish about or have an aversion to. And I am actually really fascinated by the insect kingdom for that reason, because we have what appears to be such a um predisposition or an innate kind of yuck response to critters, like slap it with the thong, spray it with the poison or get it out of my sight kind of thing. And yeah, for me, it's like, what are we losing when we turn away from this, this whole world of tiny beings who are actually like supporting our life on this planet?
00:24:04
Speaker
I'm fist pumping. everything
00:24:10
Speaker
be And obviously like part of me thinks we should eat more insects. And I don't think this conversation wants to be about like eating our friends the insects. But I will ask you about what you discovered Like, is it as simple as exposing people? Like you said, this extinction of experience, what a brilliant and terrifying term. But yeah, like what happens when people just start having more contact with with things that fly and crawl? So it was super interesting. So part of this um research that I did, we designed a
00:24:50
Speaker
It mixed a lot of like urban ecology, integrated pest management and permaculture into this kind of four week, very practical gardening course with a huge focus on insects. um That was designed for people who literally have a balcony to play with.
00:25:10
Speaker
um And this is all in Japanese. I'm super proud of myself. um That was hard. And it was really beautiful because at the beginning, um like I asked people like what their feelings were towards certain insects and I showed them like pictures of like a cute fluffy bumblebee and like um a cockroach and and other invertebrates.
00:25:34
Speaker
and then i And then I also asked them at the end and then we also did these beautiful interviews. But what I really noticed was that there was a lot of fear around like bees and wasps and other kind of stinging things, but also fluffy bumblebees are cute. ah And Then like through the course there was this moment. um I would say it was like the moment for me where I was teaching online on Zoom, sitting on my balcony. My balcony was one meter by two meter.
00:26:11
Speaker
And it was just like this wild jungle of food everywhere and flowers and herbs. And I'm just like tucked in my gut and being like, look, see what we can do. And then just at that moment, a bumblebee, because there are bumblebees in North Japan, so exciting. um A bumblebee comes and lands on the tomato flower right next to my face. And everyone goes, oh, bye.
00:26:35
Speaker
And I'm like, man, I'm freaking out because I'm so happy and they're freaking out because they're so happy. And in this moment, it was this bumblebee teacher that I think really showed us all like what the power of of growing for our bees can be. and And my joy and everyone's joy in witnessing that beautiful insect in that moment, even mediated by a screen, like people in the interviews would talk about that later and being like,
00:27:03
Speaker
the next time I went in the garden, I saw a bee, I freaked out with joy. Like that's never happened before. Like instead of having like a freaked out reaction, it was like, oh my goodness. And that's a lot of what I've been finding in my work in my PhD and later on. Like I do a lot of workshops with adults, with um preschoolers, with young people and knowing that there are different creatures that we might be able to find and knowing a little bit about those different kinds of native bees. Often I get people messaging me later being like, we saw a blue banded bee today. Or I think this might be that reed bee you were talking about. and And I think that curiosity and excitement, like that that's the start of of a falling in love with the insect world.
00:27:56
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, the discovery, the problem solving, the curiosity, that is really what gets us into these kind of conversations, really, and out into the world. And I do want to dog ear growing for our bees, because I think that is something I've got down that I would love to speak with you about today.
00:28:13
Speaker
Emily, just like how we actually support these populations wherever we are, whether that is a one by one meter squared balcony in the middle of the concrete jungle. But first of all, I just cannot suppress my curiosity any longer around your own backstory. Were you a child who was fascinated by insects? Where did this all start for you? Yummy. So I was, I was always that kid that was following the ants and wondering where they were going and I remember when I used to get really upset and grumpy and big feelings I would ah run away and I would climb a tree and I would cross my hands and I'd be very cross and grumpy and then and then a moment later I would see these ants kind of walking on the branches and walking around and and then I get really interested and curious and I just kind of wonder where they're going and what they're doing and
00:29:10
Speaker
And then somehow my body sort of relaxed didn't and i I was sitting in a tree watching ants and then I would climb down the tree and and I would go back and hug my mum and she had no idea. This probably happened for like two minutes. This is the whole process. But I remember being so fascinated by by insects in the natural world.
00:29:38
Speaker
um and loving being in the bush and and loving growing up um by the sea in the trees and I think that as many children and do I asked lots of questions and being an ecologist is is a job where you ask questions and then you try and find some answers in regards to the natural world. And so where I am now with um loving and and and being so curious about bees especially also came from a place of wanting to find a way to bridge a lot of the really
00:30:25
Speaker
difficult, challenging ecological destruction that's happening out in in rural and wilder areas outside the city with the places where a lot of people are and the places where a lot of people are living, which which is cities. And I truly believe that if we can connect with nature where we are, with insects where we are,
00:30:52
Speaker
then that's a portal into opening a love and a conservation ethic for for all places as well. And so and this journey of unfolding with studying ecology and trying to conserve these beautiful places and trying to find windows of connection in nature in the concrete jungle,
00:31:20
Speaker
I think has sort of led to to an absolute love of bees who who are right who right here, who are culminating a world, who are allowing like every bite we eat, there's a stat, I think it's a third of every bite we eat, but metaphorically, it's most of our beautiful food. And I think that Yeah, this this journey is is definitely ongoing. um the music The music part of the journey is is one of loving musical theatre as a child and then getting really creatively distracted during during my PhD and trying to find every single possible avenue of doing things linked to my PhD, which weren't actually writing my thesis.
00:32:12
Speaker
and so i started writing songs whilst doing a permaculture course and a songwriting course and my phd and it all culminated in this in this song about the concrete jungle and celebrating the concrete jungle and observing Our world. And that song's coming out on June 28th. It's the first song I ever wrote. It's only coming out now, but ah i got I got lost in joy. um Something to do with him music. Well, what I feel really, I guess inspired to ask you a little bit more about is the way that you have integrated all those elements and whether that was an accidental up swelling of a kind of elegant procrastination. Or like you have really consciously tried to enfold all of these loves and passions and ecological ethics like into your life and work. Because I i know that so many of us, you know we care deeply about the state of things. We have a wild and abiding passion for the natural world. But like the sticking point is, how do we bring those things together? How do we not have a compartment where we go to work and do things that we deep down know are probably
00:33:28
Speaker
contributing to the the problems. and then come home and like read our favourite book about permaculture or whatever. Like you represent this ah beautiful um integration of of career and passion and deep love of the world and the planet.
Integrating Passion and Career
00:33:46
Speaker
Is that something that you're kind of aware of and you're like, wow, I feel really lucky to have happened upon this or you've actively designed your life in a way that it is meeting your values across the board?
00:33:58
Speaker
Ecological processes are integrated. They flow between um the mycorrhizal networks of trees, talk to each other and support each other. You need a diversity of species in a forest to have a functional ecosystem. And sometimes we we poke the lens at a certain bit, but we can't see all those other connections happening. And something that I've been very conscious about and and developing over time is trying to find a way to process that deep climate grief and environmental grief that I know many of us have experienced and I have absolutely experienced when seeing these these forests that I love be absolutely destroyed and see environmental justice not happening at all.
00:34:56
Speaker
um and try and find a way out of that that has ah power and hope and connection at the core. And I've thought about a lot how people in cities are often making decisions about these wild places that may have not been to before and people in cities have hearts and a people and and it can be really hard to connect with with nature and ecology sometimes but if we can
00:35:39
Speaker
find ways to foster a small love for the nature that is right at our doorstep then i that opens the door to fostering a love for those bigger wilder places as well because we see the connections And so this this integrated idea is trying to bring in a really nerdy insect ecology love.
00:36:10
Speaker
um and deep, deep love of nature and ah climate action and but strategic decision-making and trying to, trying to meet people where they are and trying to bring it all together and this love of community and groundedness and trying to find a way to bring it together and it's an ongoing process and fumbling around at the same time but
00:36:43
Speaker
the The work I do with with music and education and ecology is is part of that bigger a picture. Now I was thinking about your question about both integrating different aspects of life with this kind of grounded ethic, as well as the question of how to know where to put one's energy and how it all comes together in a really real way for me, which is that I i grew into um environmental activism from from a young age through connecting and loving nature, but especially with the Australian Student Environment Network and thinking around environmental discourses and theories of change and and how we can make an impact.
00:37:37
Speaker
and trying to grapple connecting these seemingly disconnected dots of caring for the environment environmental justice, social justice, and studying ecology and and the macro and the micro levels at which we can study ecology.
00:38:00
Speaker
and deeply connecting with nature and and not just trying to save the places we love but also taking those moments to just be with and love the places we love and living in the city and having traffic and trains and things and to-do lists and all the things that we're trying to do and then and then balance how can I make an impact with all of these disconnected dots happening at the same time.
00:38:31
Speaker
And I think it's a it's a constant journey, it's a constant struggle and it's always fluctuating and always flingling about. But for me, I think that my core purpose of caring and loving for the the environment in such a deep way has always run so strongly us through me. And it's just about finding the the pathway or the avenue and that can also shift and change.
00:39:01
Speaker
And I love insects. They bring me joy. I feel curious and excited. And people tell me that that curiosity and that excitement is contagious. And there's something in that. At the same time, I love i love researching ecology. I love the field work side of things. And that brings me joy and excitement.
00:39:26
Speaker
And I love connecting with others and being inspired and working together on big projects that are groundbreaking and changing and solving problems. And I love being creative and sharing music and singing with others.
00:39:45
Speaker
So how can these things come together in a way that is energizing and impactful and integrates it all into one or a suite of projects that ah that are part of the big umbrella solution? And what is my unique like integration of all these seemingly disconnected dots, like what can I do that's kind of unique and brings it all together that can be my role and to support others as well as be supported and and and and lift other people's beautiful impactful changes and projects out in the world as well.
00:40:30
Speaker
And I think where I am at now is being and being ah being a field ecologist, being an educator, being a songwriter, being a musician and trying to translate this complicated, sometimes hard to read ecological research into singable, danceable and connectable songs that then invite people to go out in the world and fall in love with invertebrates who are the tiny little beings that are a gateway into love for the environment in general, or at least. That's kind of what my theory of change at this stage of my life is suggesting.
00:41:14
Speaker
ah So absolutely it's both strategic to be integrated but it also just makes sense and it's what my heart and soul wants to gift the world and when I do that with others and am inspired by others then I feel energised to continue through radical climate change hope.
00:41:37
Speaker
to to shift to shift things. and And I think that's that little seed that that I can plant, I hope. um So that that seed of ideas can grow into big, strong trees.
00:41:54
Speaker
Wow, that was a really shimmering answer and thank you so much for sharing that. Are you happy to move on to maybe more like community gardening stuff and urban gardening stuff? would that be Okay, cool. Yeah, because you did mention growing four bees and I feel really enchanted by that sentiment of like us starting to work for the bees as opposed to them doing all of this work to make my coffee sweet in the morning. So what are some ways that people in the city especially can really support that pollinator diversity and creating awesome habitat and food for all of our pollinators? so
00:42:39
Speaker
are questions so I really like to think about growing for bees and pollinators because there's this beautiful kind of mutual support that can happen. Like when we plant flowers for bees and let our veggies go to seed for bees, when we integrate more native um flowering vegetation into these spaces that we live and work and grow and play, not only are the bees gonna be absolutely delighted by the buffet that we that we've nourished, but
00:43:20
Speaker
He doesn't smile when you see a big abundance of sunflowers. Although maybe maybe ah and some dianella or another native plant will be a more appropriate metaphor for sunflowers, my favorite flower. um So I like to think about growing gardens, the people and pollinators, um creating spaces that our native bees will flourish but also we will be delighted to be in those spaces and when we're delighted to be in those spaces and we see the flowers and we see a bee on the flower then we might get delighted by seeing bees and it's just a mutually supportive falling in love with insects strategy it's great.
00:44:05
Speaker
But there are four very key things that we can do for our bees if we're like, what can I do for the bees? And the number one is they need food. So we need they need flowers. I like to think of a diversity of colours, of shapes,
00:44:27
Speaker
ah because we have long tongue bees and short tongue bees, we have lots of different species of bees. So diversity is key, as well as flowering over the year, depending on where we are, like if you're in big snowy places, this is slightly different, but extending that flowering time as much as we can with plants that flower in different seasons.
00:44:52
Speaker
ah The other thing is they need habitat, they need a home just like us, we need to sleep at night and so something that often surprises people is that 70% of our babies live in the ground and so having places that are not actively mowed or are more like bare ground places that are left there are really important for those ground nesting bays.
00:45:24
Speaker
They also nest in old cavities in in trees and in pre-existing holes in trees. So those trees, they're important for all creatures. But keeping those older trees especially and some bare soil places is really important. um Also, if anyone wants an excuse not to mow their lawn, um this is it. It's for the bees. It's totally for the bees.
00:45:52
Speaker
um And i said all things but the thing is it's not the pest that decides. A pest is a pest because ah we we they're in the wrong place at the wrong time or maybe they're in abundance and and they're eating our crops. But really a pest or an insect pest is is an insect out insect out of balance with predator-prey relationships. So if we can redesign our places and spaces and thinking around how can we create
00:46:33
Speaker
integrated balance instead of spraying and destroying the herbivores in that system that is going to help our bees because um those sprays are literally designed to kill insects.
00:46:49
Speaker
um And then the fourth thing is knowledge. So learning about becoming curious about our native bees and other pollinators is super powerful to sharing and growing that knowledge and that love. And and i that that's the four things that I say that we can do for our bees and other pollinators.
00:47:13
Speaker
The gardens and the spaces that surround us, do we need to adjust our expectations around like their manicuredness and their beauty? Do you lets kind of see people tilting their head a little bit like, I just can't deal with grass that's longer than an inch?
00:47:31
Speaker
Well, lastly, I always like to meet people people where they're at. Like my dad, he loves a beautifully manicured lawn. And um actually my parents went away for a little while and I was minding the house and they said, can you pick up the mail and can you mow the lawn? And I said, I'll pick up the mail, but I'm morally opposed to mowing the lawn. And so instead I put a sign in the garden that said, I'm leaving this lawn for the bees, count the species in here.
00:48:00
Speaker
I don't think any of the neighbours saw the sign but I felt like I'd done, you know, my my duty. um But i I always start with with workshops in in finding that curiosity and discovering those different species that we could possibly find and then talking about what kind of flowers they might need and the buffering that sometimes those volunteer species can offer when the rest is a concrete jungle and allow people to come to those conclusions a lot themselves which everyone always does which is oh if I have a heap more flowers interspersed in that garden space that might be a little bit of a buffer but I probably need to plant some more native plants and species in in these kind of
00:48:55
Speaker
um spaces. So I always talk from a like design perspective, creating gardens for people and pollinators, um what can we offer the bees, but also How are we going to design our spaces so that we want to go out and see those bees and and pick those leaves for our tea? How can we integrate that love and curiosity as opposed to don't do this and don't do that, if that makes sense? Yeah, totally. And what are some of the most surprising species that you've discovered in the urban environment?
00:49:35
Speaker
Ah, I remember when I was doing my PhD research, it was really, I was just blown away by how resilient blue-banded bees are. They are like hardcore. There were these blue-banded bees that would nest in the mortar between bricks and like in the mortar in the concrete pavement And they just inspired me in terms of ecological resilience in their city. These bees were like punk bees. They were getting into that mortar. They're like, I'm living in the underground. And I would see them everywhere. They'd be all over.
00:50:17
Speaker
if there was like lavender or basil or other non-native species, but big flowering bouquets, they'd be all over it. And it really shifted my thinking in terms of urban ecology. like
00:50:32
Speaker
how they've integrated in the system. A white ibis or the lovingly known as bin chicken are another creature that I'm really fascinated with, absolute urban resilience emblem and appear appear a lot in my urban ecology songs because I just find them so cool. Yeah, I'm glad you're giving the ibis a rebrand. They definitely deserve it.
00:51:01
Speaker
And are there are there lots of really interesting native insects and bees under our noses? And once we start gaining a little bit more knowledge, we actually see them and they're not just all ants?
00:51:14
Speaker
Totally. um I think something that's really fun to notice and play with is um that I talk about bees a lot because bees are my favorite and I love them but actually flies and wasps in other insects do a lot of the pollinating and are always around and like in a in a mindfulness exercise where we try and listen to all of the sounds around us and count the sounds. I really enjoy being in a place and trying to see all the insect abundance and count the different kinds of insects I can find, even if I don't know their names or who they are. But we'd be surprised about how many flies will pollinate flowers, especially hoverflies.
00:52:07
Speaker
um Like bees, a lot of the wasps, the solitary, and um and business they're They're not out to get us. They're just trying to eat some caterpillars who are destroying your kale and then get a bit of nectar in the process. So I think it's less these one species, but more the curiosity of the diversity when we really pay attention that often baffles me.
00:52:37
Speaker
o And do you make a practice of paying attention? So in your day to day rhythms and routines, are you making sure that you're actively going out and doing a baby ah bee watching sit spot or crawling on your hands and knees to investigate who's burrowing into soil? what it What are some of your weird and wonderful habits that support this curiosity into adulthood when we can get a little bit like fossilized and brittle and bored?
00:53:08
Speaker
Totally. um Oh, that's such a great question. So I have a few practices that I do. um In the morning, I always go for my morning run in nature. Now I say run very loosely. I think I run for about 10 seconds and then I start walking. It's a frolic, I think that is a frolic. But it's still a morning run. Yeah, it's a morning run. Oh, I love that. um And just... sometimes oh when it's just like don't want to get out there you go so many thoughts to do lists blah everything's going through but it it's the first thing I do I go out and even if I'm really grumpy about it and then I'll get into the bush I'm really lucky I live really I live on the bush I'm really lucky
00:53:54
Speaker
um But I get there and then whatever grumpy feeling or whatever feeling was in there, stressed to-do lists will usually kind of melt away when I listen to the birds.
00:54:11
Speaker
I see this amazing, amazing vista of the Blue Mountains on beautiful Darugan Gondengar country. I see these trees. And then if I'm really lucky, I might see an insect on a flower. ah And if that happens, I'm drawn in and I'm mesmerized and I notice my whole like system that might've been a bit flight or flighty even will just settle.
00:54:40
Speaker
um that's That's the main practice that I do. The other one is swimming in really cold waterfalls and rivers and bodies of water, no matter the season. It's completely nuts and I squeal really loudly. And then I come out and I'm like, that was such a good idea. I never regret a swim. I love swimming. Oh my goodness. Yeah, everything is right. And now I'm freezing first.
00:55:06
Speaker
Do you do that because you're like a biohacking bro who has their routine of like blue light first thing in the morning and whim-hopping for 10 slash 11 minutes at a very specific hour of the day? Or are you just full of joy to viv?
00:55:24
Speaker
yeah It's actually really interesting. I've been jumping in really cold water because it's been the most, like water is really regulating for me and it's healing, it washes, it washes and it it it makes everything make sense.
00:55:43
Speaker
um But when I moved to Japan, I found out about this beautiful practice where ah people will dress in white spiritual clothes and they will sit underneath the waterfall and have the waterfall more onto their heads in meditation.
00:56:03
Speaker
um and that be this this purifying healing process and I was like oh really I've done that for years wow cool and then again someone was like oh so you like do Wim Hof and I'm like what's Wim Hof and like when you jump into cold hold what I was like oh I oh that's a thing oh okay and it keeps coming up because of course Because it makes sense. Humans know that water is healing and purifying and beautiful. um And it's just my favorite thing in the world. Do go chasing waterfalls.
00:56:40
Speaker
ah Cue that track.
00:56:44
Speaker
Oh, I love it. I love how you are resistant to reducing those things down to, you know, like a prescriptive thing rather than this expansive whole life joyousness. Like that's really refreshing. And you are a scientist, so you have that scientific lens, but I do appreciate that. You're just happy for that to be what it is. um You did bring back Japan. You brought Japan back into the conversation, and i and I quickly, or in an elongated fashion, whatever you feel fit to answer, but I do want to speak a little bit about
00:57:20
Speaker
what you've seen around the world in terms of like cool innovations or urban projects happening. Maybe that's just specifically in Japan. I know you've traveled extensively elsewhere too. Like what are some things that spring to mind that are happening in other places that may be coming to Australia like in the next 10 years? Oh, that's an interesting question.
00:57:44
Speaker
I have so much, so much heart for Japan. It really is um a part of me and my journey. um But I remember something that really fascinated me. And I think I've always been a curious urban ecologist in a way because the reason why I initially wanted to go to Japan was because it it baffled me that this incredible um spirituality and animist spirituality around
00:58:21
Speaker
ah Shinto religion and the mountains and the the temples and the shrines and the beauty and the pilgrimage and the one straw revolution, Masanabu Fukuoka, like natural farming and all of this can exist within like a one hour train ride of Tokyo.
00:58:43
Speaker
um which is like this post-punk sci-fi like consumerist post post post capitalist like skyscraper glass and concrete shenanigans and so fun and pop culture and cute and colorful and exciting and like oh just like yeah but that they could kind of be so close to each other in physical time and space. And so that's what initially drew me to Japan. And I was like, I need to learn more about this. This is really, really really interesting. And in those journeys, I've i've lived in Japan for for over three years on and off. And I met the most
00:59:27
Speaker
beautiful beautiful people and communities who are so loving and caring and the relationship with with with mountain and village in a process called Satoyama for example really jumps out at me as We talk about it a lot in permaculture, but that idea that the people space or the zone one is is only a small little part of the big zone five or the big mountain or the wild dirt spaces and that this connection integration in between and movement in between can allow diversity to also flourish um and that
01:00:18
Speaker
Yeah, that that really jumps out at me. I actually wanted to ask why you love Japan and why you chose to go there and why you... I mean, it sounds like you've learned the language. Oh, yeah, I speak Japanese. Yeah, incredible. I mean, what what what was that as a process?
01:00:35
Speaker
um I think i I love people, I love connecting, ah and I love Japan, so when I was there I wanted to be able to chat with people, so I just had to learn.
01:00:54
Speaker
It's impressive because I spent seven weeks in Japan. That's the only time I've been there, but was lucky enough to do some farming and to and you know have like a multitude, a really good diversity of experiences there and more in community than just sightseeing, which was really, I'm really grateful for, but I recognize that that is not an easy language to learn. And especially if you're going to go one step further and learn some of the characters and how to how to do the written communication piece but I feel like it's really impressive to pick up yeah such a different communication style to English. I think something I really love about Japanese language though is how
01:01:38
Speaker
beautifully sensical and creative it is so for example my favorite kanji is um moku or it means a tree and then so that kanji one of it means tree but if you put two of them together and then three of them together becomes small forest and then two and three and then three is like larger forest and then you attach it to the kanji for like country and it becomes national park like like and it's just like a lot of trees like it's so beautiful the way that this comes together
01:02:15
Speaker
Oh, thank you. that's Yeah, that's gorgeous. Well, Emily, I really want to speak with you about music and about what's happening for you at the moment, what's really alive in your life, which is this recording and producing and releasing of your album.
Musical Mission for Ecology
01:02:30
Speaker
Are you able to share where you're at with putting those songs together and also like what your hope and vision for that album is?
01:02:37
Speaker
I'm so excited for this debut Emily Ecology album called Let's Be Scientists. It will be blooming in spring 2024. And it is a compilation of songs that I've written and co-written with beautiful people about falling in love with the nature that is our door at our doorstep. and There are of course a lot of songs about these.
01:03:08
Speaker
ah and lichen and so soil and observing nature in the city and these songs are from years of research in urban ecology and trying to find ways to translate that and and also and falling in love with lichen and other beautiful organisms and conversations in community and being inspired by what brings nature alive for others as well.
01:03:45
Speaker
and it's been years of love in the making but over the last year we've actually been recording them in this beautiful studio called Church Street Studios which I actually found out Blinky Bill was made in and Blinky Bill Probably one of the reasons why I became an environmental advocate. Like, ugh, so cool! It's been really like vulnerable and beautiful to try and translate these songs that are written about and in nature into a studio environment.
01:04:27
Speaker
um But I'm really grateful for for beautiful, beautiful friends. Like Kosta does a rap on one of the songs. And Charlie from the festival came in to do some really amazing backing vocals and add his beautiful color. And and it's it it it kind of blows my mind. like these these These songs and this music and this environmental education in creative form is is just so the application of all that research and and grassroots action and thinking um in this musical format. I'm really, really, really excited to share it with the world. um We are crowdfunding it at the moment.
01:05:19
Speaker
there's Depends when this podcast goes out, but as of today, there's about one week left of crowdfunding. um And yeah, if anyone is listening and would like to support these environmental education, permacultured, anthem songs to be out in the world, it goes a long way.
01:05:46
Speaker
um I can't wait to share the songs. It's going to be really exciting. Amazing. And you've got some hopes and dreams for the album, right? Like how it might be useful for kids in school and um woven into some of those educational spaces. Like, can you speak a little bit about the potential of, I mean, we all know how powerful music is as a vehicle for messages and plucks the strings of our heart and soul. What are the opportunities that you're saying for this album?
01:06:22
Speaker
So I've thought a lot about what role these these songs can play and it's really in a space of environmental and science education in a creative way. So with the album, with the CD album, I'm also making an educational resource kit which is going to link the songs and the content from the songs to the Australian curriculum. I'm starting with New South Wales, but if anyone wants to help me with Victoria and other states, I would love that. And the idea is to make, I've got these beautiful backyard learning packs and classroom learning packs with um outdoor activities grounded in um ecology and science education, music education and creative practice and the sustainability cross-curriculum links.
01:07:18
Speaker
um that teachers and home educators and communities will be able to use to look at these topics through song and outdoor nature-based learning. um And that it be a really useful resource for a lot of amazing educators out there. And I'm really, really excited to to see that being used in the world.
01:07:50
Speaker
Yeah, oh, congratulations on, as you said, so, so many years of of thinking and tinkering and strumming and humming. Like all of these things take a really long time and then bringing them together not only takes time, but also resources. So um yeah, hopefully you will garner that support that you need to bring this beautiful thing to life. And I would love to end on some fun B facts.
01:08:17
Speaker
if there are some like amazing things you could tell us about bees to just really wet our little, what are those? Is it like ah the proboscis or the tongue to wet that thing that we might be dipping into the honeypot of a bee garden? For insect observation like fire away. So my favourite bee fact is about a blue banded bee which you do have in Victoria.
01:08:44
Speaker
Yeah. And they're my favorite bee of all time. They've got a blue and black stripey abdomen and big green eyes and they make this big loud buzz. They're beautiful bees. They're ground nesting bees. And they actually have the world record in something, which is they have the world record in headbanging.
01:09:05
Speaker
And what I mean by that is that they can shake their heads 350 times in one second. I invite anyone who's listening to this podcast to try and shake your head as fast as you can in one second and see how that feels and imagine how hard they space work.
01:09:24
Speaker
um They do that because they're buzz pollinators um who shake pollen out of flowers that pollen drops and falls into the next flower. ah Bumblebees do this as well, but the blue banded bees are the fastest. That is so freaking radical. What little rockers.
01:09:45
Speaker
Aw, thank you so much for ending on that incredible factoid and also for spending this time with me. It's just such a sunny and happy and vivacious person and that I'm sure shines through on the audio. I can see you, which is like a bonus for me. I think that people hearing will get that buzziness in your beautiful stories and shares as well. So thank you so much, Emily.
01:10:25
Speaker
unexpected places. That was Concrete Jungle by Emily Ecology. And for more Ibis Rock and R and&B, I've shared all of Emily's links and hijinks in the show notes. And be sure to check out her chuffed campaign too, which is just $900 off its target.
01:10:40
Speaker
Thank you for listening and for supporting Resculience. Every share, five-star review and kind comment is another hit of dopaminergic love and affirmation that these non-prescriptive, whole-person conversations matter. My heartfelt gratitude to all of my patrons over on Patreon who are funding this project through their donations We hang out at patreon dot.com forward slash reskillience and special shout outs to new patrons Richard Telford of Abdullah House and Permaculture Principles and Beck Scharn, another epic permy who've joined the reskillience community this week. Thanks for listening and catch you next week.