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Episode 74: Internationals and the impact of negative Lionesses commentary
9 Plays12 days ago
Join Catherine for a round up of international fixtures and a think about the impact of the negative commentary the Lionesses have been receiving.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Setup
00:00:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello, and welcome to Beyond the Pitch, a daily women's football club podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. I'm Catherine, as you probably know by now, I'm here on my own again because I like being alone. No, that's, well, that is true, but also I just wanted to talk about the international break. um I love international football.
Impact of Negative Commentary on Football Experience
00:00:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah I don't know why, I think it's because like many many people I first really started following women's football on the back of the 22 euros and I think because the lionesses kind of got me into football I still feel very attached attached to them so anyway today's episode I'm diving and see international break talking about Emma Hayes the Netherlands dominating the USA England and Switzerland and I'm going to finish off by talking about something that I wanted to touch on following this break
00:01:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that's the impact of negative commentary and punditry on how fans and players feel about a team. And just generally, I mean, um, not to go too far into it. So yet, but I just find it really, when you're constantly hearing the negative commentary, um, during a football match, it just, it really kind of messes with me. It really, um, impacts me for not just whilst I'm watching the game, but for like the whole day and things.
00:01:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
So anyway, we're going to be talking about that. But first of all, on another downer, the international break, Scotland and the Republic of Ireland neither qualified for the Euros. Scotland were beaten 2-0 by Finland, Republic of Ireland 2-1 by Wales. I think, like many people, I thought the Republic of Ireland might come back into it. They got that late, uh, late, was it a penalty?
Scotland and Ireland's Euro Qualifying Struggles
00:02:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah something and then yeah I thought they might come back into it but Wales held on and got the win so congratulations to Wales. Elsewhere Sweden sealed qualification as we kind of thought they would. They beat Serbia 2-0 and Norway beat Northern Ireland 4-0 to book their place in Switzerland. So one question I have is where does Scotland go from here? um I mean I'm half Scottish as you all know That's why i I also feel an affection for Scotland and I really wanted to see them at the Euros. I mean, with the quality of the players that Scotland have, like Real Madrid, Caroline Bua, the Scottish Sam Kerr who plays for Bayern Munich, Aaron Cuthbert from Chelsea, with the quality of players that Scotland have, they shouldn't be
00:02:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
being kind of beaten as they are. like It's almost a year to the day, I think it was a few days ago, that England beat Scotland 6-0 in that what I think was a farce about the Olympics, even though yeah there would be a conjoined team. But anyway, they shouldn't be being beaten 6-0 And I mean, I'm not, I've said this before, I do not like talking about sacking managers and being overly critical about managers, especially international managers, just because I appreciate what a hard job it is.
Netherlands vs USA: A Surprising Performance
00:03:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
However, even I have come to a point with Pedro where, I mean, surely when he came into the job, he had been given the goal of qualifying, you would think, um,
00:03:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
And you just struggled to see the evolution, like where have Scotland progressed since he's been, I mean, he was given a new deal last September. I think he's been imposed for now 18 months, two years, but where have Scotland progressed? um I mean, in that space of time, where have Scotland gotten better? I'm just struggling to see that. And when you reach that point, I think,
00:04:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
it is difficult to come back from that. And so I do wonder, yeah, I do wonder about Pedro, but I mean, on the other side, his record is not actually that bad. So 20 games, 10 wins, five losses, five draws. It's not that bad. Where I struggle, again, is his approach and some of the things he says, like for the Finland game, the Finland loss, um he essentially blamed the frozen pitch.
00:04:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
that the pitch was frozen and I feel a bit like well you're the manager of the Scotland national team like uh also quite a cold country so yeah I mean that is a question for any listeners out there ah who follow Scotland like where do you see Scotland going from here do you see that changing do you see them getting rid of Pedro and bringing someone else in and then there's the question of who Who should they bring in? I mean, I know that Carla Ward has... just This is just a hint. I know that Carla Ward has said that she would be interested in international football. it Scotland isn't that far
England vs Switzerland: Tactical Analysis
00:05:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
away from England. So, you know, it would be local. ah Carla, if you're listening, I would love it. So, yeah, I'm just putting that out there.
00:05:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
In terms of friendly matches, France and Spain had what looks like a banger of a game. I didn't watch the whole game. I've seen the highlights. It eventually went Spain's way. They beat France 4-2.
00:05:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Now Spain have been in kind of a bit of a tricky form. They haven't looked like the Spain that they've looked like in the past few years. This was offensively a return to form. However, defensively they did, from the highlights, they do look quite shaky. So that's an interesting you know and interesting one ah since they got England in the Nations League ah for January.
00:06:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Canada beat South Korea 5-1 as they entered their post-drone period. And the us the USA beat Netherlands 2-1.
00:06:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
I wanted to dig into that game a little bit more. I was, so it was on at the same time as England, Switzerland, and I was kind of watching half and half, so I was spending half my time on England and Switzerland, the other half on ah the USA and the Netherlands. So it was two days after the USA drew with England at Wembley,
00:06:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
It was quite interesting that it was a very similar US team um that started against the Netherlands given that time frame and that quick turnaround. So you still had Lindsay Horan, Girma, Fox, Naya, Coffee. Sorry, I think I almost wanted to say coffee. ah Laval, the changes really came up front. However, really it was in midfield and defence that the US had issues. Anyway, ah the Netherlands absolutely dominated, absolutely dominated. I haven't seen a performance like that from the Netherlands. I was trying to think.
00:07:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think possibly since the Euros final in 2017. um Yeah, I don't think we've seen that kind of performance on the Netherlands in a long, long time, especially with the absence still of Viv Miedemar. So remember, this is without Miedemar. And of course, with how Reactive Football Society is, following the game, you had a lot of people on Twitter on, oh, sorry, X, on Blue Sky, on Instagram, on Reddit.
00:07:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
talking about the Netherlands are going to win the Euros. Now this is where I think we have to be careful because they did look absolutely brilliant and I think they're going to go far obviously but I don't think we can say any team's going to win the Euros at this point and the Netherlands have been inconsistent. I mean the China game although they won 4-1 for 75 minutes of that game, they did struggle. um And so, i yeah, I think we need to be a bit measured, a bit measured for that. I'm not saying they're not going to win the Euros, I'm just saying we need to be careful about ah about making statements like that.
The Hague Crowd and Fan Culture
00:08:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah So anyway, yeah, the Netherlands had 57% possession, 22 shots to the US is 5, 7 on target compared to the US is 4, and 17 shots inside the box compared to the US is 4. It was definitely the worst performance of the Hayes era. um I think they got the win, the US did eventually win 2-1, and they got that win due to kind of individual moments of brilliance.
00:08:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
outside of that it was um a very Netherlands heavy heavy performance which um I mean yeah I don't really know what the US fans feel about that. um I know there were some criticisms of Andries Yonker who I really like. I've said that before. He's and the Netherlands coach, but people felt like he should have made an attacking sub. I think he made one sub at like 85 minutes when they were 2-1 down, but playing really, really well.
00:09:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
And it was more of a defensive sub, so I think there was quite a bit of criticism there saying, you know, you could have, could have got a draw or even won the game if you put someone offensively. I don't know. I mean.
00:09:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
I kind of see why he didn't because it's a similar thing to didn't Serena get criticized in the US game that we played where we drew for not putting Aggie Beaver Jones on? And I remember I was thinking that the US under Hayes do like to score late. um They've quite often kind of nicked a late goal near the end of a game. ah maybe Maybe that was the thinking, trying to avoid that.
00:10:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
But anyway, yeah, I mean, a very interesting game, and I do want to watch the whole the whole game to see if the Netherlands are really as dominant were really as dominant as I thought. A big shout out to the crowd in um in the Hague. It looked brilliant, not the prison. that Oh, that is a really funny thing. So the tweets that were coming out and the kind of posts online of people, I mean, okay,
00:10:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
I'm not Dutch, but I'm learning Dutch because and until very recently Manchester United's manager was Dutch. and There's a lot of Dutch football people, so I wanted to learn Dutch anyway. um People confusing The Hague with the Dutch name for The Hague, which is Den Haag,
00:10:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I've seen like posts from Americans who are at the game saying, it oh, I'm reporting in from Den Haig or from The Harg. Which, I mean, it doesn't take that much research, guys, come on. But anyway, yeah, a huge shout out to the crowd there because it looked amazing. I think the stadium was sold out. It's 15,000 capacity.
00:11:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
And yeah, it was very touching as well that even the Dutch audience gave Alyssa Neha such a nice send off. She had quite a lot of applause, which is really nice to see. I like it when things like that kind of transcend the rivalry. Like you hate each other for 90 minutes, but outside of that, you can be a team and be nice to each other.
00:11:40
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00:11:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
So moving on, our second topic is England v Switzerland and Yeah, what a game. I mean, I was not in Sheffield. I wish I was. um It seems the atmosphere was absolutely fantastic. So up the Sheffield, you know, well done. I love it when ah you get an exciting atmosphere, especially for a friendly game. So yeah, England beat Switzerland 1-0. It was an almost entirely new team. And I want to
00:12:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
kind of talk about, again, a lot of the narrative on social media and from the actual media is that Serena really doesn't rotate. So this is something really, really adds to the blue. I mean, yes, she doesn't normally make this much, this many changes. I mean, it was 10 changes, but I just, again, I really refute that she doesn't make changes because, I mean, think about it. Grace Clinton started at Wembley against Sweden. That was a massive game. It was a qualifier. ah We've had Mary Earps kind of dropped even though she's been fit for Hannah Hampton recently. And I mean, just these four games, I think we had eight changes between um Germany and South Africa, which people put down to ah the performance against Germany. I don't think it was that. I think
00:13:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
they were always going to make that in many changes and then another three or four changes and then another few changes and then like 10 changes so I don't know what people really mean when they say that England never rotate because we do. Anyway that's just me on a soapbox because I don't like that narrative going around. um So the game was at the same time as the Netherlands versus the USA so it was two days a very short turnaround after the Wembley game. I think England actually travelled to Sheffield literally the morning after ah the USA game
00:14:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
So quite a lot of traveling for them in a short period of time, especially for the players kind of who'd come across from the States like poor Anna
Caution with Young Player Expectations
00:14:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Morehouse. I mean, coming from Orlando, Florida to December in Sheffield. I mean, that's got to be quite quite a jump. Yeah, so I felt for her. um Only Jess Park kept her place and she came off just after halftime, mainly apparently due to minutes and giving other players a chance because it's obviously a friendly.
00:14:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
There were two debuts! Laura Blinckeld Brown and Ruby Mace both started which I think is fantastic. I think Ruby Mace is obviously kind of being thought of perhaps as someone who might eventually kind of compete with Keira Walsh and Laura Blinckeld Brown bit more of an attacking midfielder. I do want to just urge a little word of caution because I feel like whenever whenever young players come through and they have a good performance on a debut, we as fans can get very carried away. I think we need to remember that these are still very young players. The step up from 1-23 to the seniors is a big step and
00:15:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
Although I think kind of the FA have done a really good job at making that step as easy as possible, it is still a step. And I really fear, I mean, there's people online talking about starting, starting them kind of in the games against like Spain, things I just think we need to be, we need to be careful. You can't throw young players in the deep end, say swim and then be upset when they sink. So just a little bit, be a bit measured. Aggie Beaver Jones and Millie Turner both got their first starts for England. I'm so psyched for that. I mean, um nothing against Aggie, but debt especially for Millie Turner. I mean, she's been in and around the England squads, um made her debut back in February. And yeah, she just really deserves it. United's defence
00:16:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
have been great this season and can I just mention as well Manchester United had like five players in that England team. How great for United. um and i think where the benefit from that will definitely come is the relationships that already exist between the players. So you've got like ah Millie Turner, Gabby George. Oh, that's another one I have to mention, Gabby George. Anyway, Millie Turner, Gabby George, Maya Latissier, all kind of having those links already. And with Grace grace Clinton up higher, you could definitely see, especially with Gabby George, even though she was playing wildly out of position, ah you could really see those relationships, um I felt.
00:16:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
And yeah, Gabby George. I mean, I was so happy for Gabby George. I mean, to come back from such significant injuries and then to end up playing for England again after kind of your first season back. Yeah, just congratulations to her. She really deserves it. Been immense for United.
In-Depth England Match Strategies
00:17:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
I'm recording this on Sunday morning ahead of United Liverpool, so I'm really hoping she has another immense game today. And yeah, just Brilliant. um So it's a very good first half performance from England. Although the second half wasn't wasn't bad. I think we again can overemphasise this. I think one of the other narratives that I get pretty tired of is people saying, oh, well, we were good in one half, but we were less less good in the second half. And I'm like, well, the opponent also changes things. It's it's not like you have one opponent over 90 minutes that doesn't change anything.
00:17:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
like It's all about how you adapt to their changes too, and and um Switzerland really did come out in the second half having woken up. and I want to talk about Pierson Harg, which I probably mispronounced as well, the head coach of Switzerland, formerly of Brazil of course. I always remember they did a joint um ahead of the final of the finalisma which england won on penalties against brazil they did a joint press conference um with pia and serena and i think it was leah williamson and i can't remember who the brazil player was um but yeah i always remember that i remember that was such a like fun idea to have a joint press conference anyway um
00:18:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, so that narrative about Switzerland being an easy opponent as well, I didn't really agree with. I mean, yes, they have quite a few injuries, but they had quite a young and hungry squad um coming into this game. They, I mean, their recent results have been quite good. They drew with Spain. um You know, so they're not a really weak team and I didn't really understand the narrative around that anyway.
00:18:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
Another, I feel like I'm just constantly urging caution with everything, but I also wanted to just talk about Grace Clinton. um I had ah actually a bit of an exchange with um a journalist on, I think it was Blue Sky, and we're talking about who England's kind of number 10 starter should be going to the Nations League let next year. And he suggested Grace Clinton. I'm still a bit, I love Grace Clinton, of course,
00:19:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
i think she's an immense talent but I mean one of the things that Serena's talked about with Grace is wanting to see that consistency and that occasionally in matches and you can see it if you watch United all the time you can see it occasionally she does kind of switch off a little bit.
00:19:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
And Grace Clinton admits that as well. She said, in an interview I just saw where they asked what your greatest weakness she was like sometimes a daydream or sometimes, preferably about hugging trees or something. um And I just think, again with a player so young, do you want to It feels like a very typical English thing of building a player up to such great kind of hype that then when they don't live ah up to that hype they have so much further to fall and I just feel like we need to be measured, we need to be careful. um Very similar in the in the men's game to someone someone like ah Rasmus Hoyland or
00:20:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Gonaccio, both young United players who were kind of built up. And then especially with Gonaccio, he was built up to such an extent that when he had a couple of dodgy performances, they really tore into him. And I think the further you're built up, obviously the further the further you can fall.
00:20:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
And yeah, I just worry, I definitely think Grace Clinton has already got a seat on the plane to Switzerland. I think we need to be careful about whether we're starting her in these big games, um can you know, all the time. I would like to see her continue, I would like to see her start.
00:20:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
However, I think another complication is the competition for that 10 spot in England is immense. I mean, um which is her preferred spot. Jess Park also prefers to play there. um Another young player. So kind of what are you doing? What are you doing there? And I feel like there's not really going to be a right answer yet.
00:21:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
um Anyway, yeah, um we had one goal scored, Grace Clinton, amazing, ah former Milly Turner, free kick as well, so United made goal, second one of the last of the recent games, 66% possession, 13 shots, three on target, 11 inside the box compared to Switzerland's three, 34 touches in the penalty area compared to Switzerland's 17.
00:21:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
We did, we didn't look that clinical. Um, I think that might just be a thing of like, this isn't a team that's played together much before. Um, so I think that might just be an offset of that. And especially, I mean, a lot of people are talking about creativity going forward. And I think, especially when you've got, I mean, adding just one of Lauren James or Lauren hemp back into that or an Ella tune, actually adding just one of those three into that kind of forward line would help.
00:22:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah with the creativity a lot and yeah finally I did just want to talk about Pia Sunhag because I think she's brilliant and yeah she's a pre she's a former player she was a standout player for Sweden for many many years and I really like her It was really touching that in the England program match day program, they did an interview with Pierre as well, which um I really liked. They did with Emma Hayes as well for the usr
Podcast Network Promotion and Constructive Criticism in Commentary
00:22:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah US s game. I really liked those touches. ah Finally on England, it's a tough time for the England youth teams, the under 19s lost to Poland and the under 23s lost to Sweden. So let's hope that they kind of come back stronger and have a really good start to 2025.
00:22:51
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00:23:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I just wanted to finish off with something that really kind of bothered me about the recent international break. um So I think this is kind of more of an international issue, probably due to the popularity of it and the fact that, um you know, a lot of people are watching, for example, the lionesses, even if they might not watch um club games.
00:23:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
But, and that is negative commentary from pundits and ex-players and commentators during games. I don't know about you. I mean, I know that it's not just me because I've talked to other people who said the same thing, but I find it really hard to deal with. um You can't engage with football without engaging with it in some way, ah whether that's listening to the commentary or searching for something online and then seeing clips from ex-players, and I just find it really, really hard. There tends to be a dominant narrative, um which is kind of, at the moment, very negative towards the lionesses, which I just found horrible listening to. and I kept thinking, am I watching the same game? um Overwhelmingly negative, more similar to a men's football match,
00:24:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
um We've talked a lot, you know, ah generally about men's football commentary, and you have a lot of commentators, commentators who are really good, of course, but there's also some who you just find, yeah, really, really tiring. And just as ah a bit of a preamble, I want to say I'm not talking about, I'm not saying that we can't criticize anyone. That's not what I'm saying. Criticism is fine. Criticism is good. It's healthy.
00:25:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
What I'm talking about is when it's constant and it's just a constant negative drain throughout a match. And I've started listening to a lot of matches on mute just because I can't take it. At the end of the day, um you can disagree with choices that are made. You can disagree with choices that are made on the pitch by players. But I just don't like this constant, it's like a constant negativity.
00:25:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
um And I was thinking about it, the dangers of this, I think for players, especially in the women's game, a lot of pundits and ex-players tend to be um the main kind of sources of this content. And hearing kind of constant criticism from people you respect could impact on confidence. I mean, people react to things in different ways. I think some pundits might think they're being motivating by being overly critical, ah like saying,
00:26:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
Oh, there's no way in hell England are going to retain the euros. Some commentators might think, Oh, we're being motivating because then they're going to go away and they're going to and fight and think, Oh, we are, and we're going to show you. But for other players that won't be motivating that will make them despondent and say, Oh, you know, everyone's, these experts are saying, we're not going to win. What's the point in trying um and that?
00:26:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. So I think there could be a massive impact on confidence, especially when in the women's game, a lot of the pundits are, as I said, ex-players and people who will know current players quite well. For the fans, I think is where the main impact comes in. I mean, on the one hand, I think it's just very boring when the same narratives keep coming out over and over again. And you hear the same things in every game. You know what the commentators are going to say. It is just boring. um But most importantly, I think we're still shaping
00:27:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
the women's game, what it looks like, how we respond to it. And this is an opportunity to have a difference to the men's game. The men's game, we know the issues around fans kind of coming out after the matches. Football, let's be real, football has a massive impact on my wellbeing. Like if my United men's or women's team loses, especially heavily, which they have done in recent years, quite a few times, it really messes up my day, weekend,
00:27:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Sometimes you feel horrible. Um, and the commentary I just find doesn't really detract from that ever. It more adds to it. And I think with the dangers that we know, particularly in the men's game of, for example, the levels of domestic violence after, after, um, a football match, we do have, I think the pundits, people talking about people do have like a responsibility to talk about it in the right way.
00:28:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Um, and again, I'm not saying that criticism is bad. I'm just saying that when it's constant, um, that's when it becomes an issue. And I think as well with the women's game, constantly criticizing everything could just be affirming thoughts that women are never good enough. Um, for example, things like, um,
00:28:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
the things like, uh, Mary Earp's making a save, you've got, uh, making a really, really good save, then you've got people coming in and saying, oh, no, it's not that good. And blah, blah, blah. While she didn't do this, she didn't do that. I was like, okay, well, what are you actually saying here? Um, and I just think we need to be careful about that. Um, more men are watching the women's game now. We have more variety in how people will emotionally respond to things like losses. Um,
00:29:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think there's another element to it as well, which is especially with, as I said, the lionesses are watched more, I think, than club football ah by a wider variety of people. And they have been so successful that I feel like it was inevitable that we have built them up onto this pedestal. But them not living up to our expectations of them isn't necessarily their problem. I think we might need to look at our own expectations Appreciate how the game has changed, especially internationally over the last few years. ah There are no easy opponents anymore. We're not going to win 20-0 like we did two years ago. um And I just think it's really, really draining to think about all of the negativity and what that kind of does to you as you're watching a match. And yeah, like I said, I strongly suggest people, if you are like me and find it draining, watch on mute.
00:30:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
and just don't listen to the pundits and don't watch any content online and don't search for anything online to do with it. um Again, just my final disclaimer. I'm not saying you can't criticise anything. I'm just saying that when it's constant, it's like when I used to teach, you would never give a student like ah a list of 10 things to improve. You would give them things to improve dotted between things that they'd done well.
00:30:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
because otherwise it's just demotivating and it just makes you feel horrible. um So yeah, that's my last thought. That's great. I think that's all we have time for today. ah Thank you for joining me and I look forward to welcoming you back to my next episode, I'm not sure when that will be, of Beyond the Pitch.