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Elevating Leadership: The Power of Execution, Communication, and Emotional Intelligence
70 Plays1 year ago
Join us in this insightful episode with Brent Oberlink and Travis May as they delve into the essential qualities that define effective leadership. Explore the importance of laser-focused execution without losing sight of the big picture, and learn how consistent execution and follow-through build trust and reliability within a team. Discover the significance of clear and concise communication, and how consistency in emotions, responses, and actions fosters stability and trust. Finally, we discuss the critical role of emotional intelligence, emphasizing genuine care and understanding for team members. Join us as we uncover the attributes that set apart exceptional leaders and inspire you to elevate your own leadership skills.
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Transcript
Return from Break
00:00:11
Speaker
All right, welcome back to another edition of The Better Contractor. I feel like it's been a minute, Travis. It feels like that, not not to the audience, though. they Not to them, but to us. it's just We've had a little break here and in filming. But anyway, welcome. Good to see you again. Thanks, break. Good to see you as well.
Nickname Discussion: 'Quote Master'
00:00:30
Speaker
Yeah. Today, I don't have a nickname for you. I need to switch up your nickname. I don't like it. Quote Master, huh? I don't like it. You didn't quote very much the last two times. You're off.
00:00:43
Speaker
Yeah. All right, man. Well, I'll tell you what. We'll redeem you this time if you have at least three. How about that? I could probably make this happen. Right. I have faith in you.
Insights from 'Tribe of Mentors'
00:00:56
Speaker
How many books have you read since we last talked? I have a habit of I read more than one book at a time. And it's basically, so I was going to say some fiction, some nonfiction, or mess almost all of them are are nonfiction.
00:01:13
Speaker
But is it's basically like the moods that I'm in. So I'll read maybe two or three books at a time. So it takes longer to get through them. there's There's one that I've been reading just because it's, I think it's like four or pages, but I'm really into it. It's Tim Ferriss's book on mentors. So he basically, I think I talked about a little bit. I've heard about that one from you and from others. that It's fascinating. So he,
00:01:42
Speaker
He sent out a bunch of questions to people from all walks of life, all throughout the world, people that you would agree with, people that you wouldn't agree with, people in industries or backgrounds that you know nothing about, others that you said, and then asked them the same sets of questions. like I think it was our 11 questions. yeah But really insightful, really well done questions yeah ah and and not your your normal questions.
00:02:09
Speaker
Uh, we did talk about this a little bit, but like one of the first ones is what, what are the three books that you give out the most or the three books that have been, or the most the book that's been most impactful to you or something. Um, but, but I liked the framing of which ones do you give out the most? Uh, and, uh, cause that obviously it gives insights into what you value over time, especially. And then, uh, what's, what's the most valuable thing that you spent a hundred dollars on in the last like 90 days or something like that. That was under $100. Then one of them was, as you've gotten older, what what do you say no to? What have you learned to say no to more? And then there was for, what's your favorite failure? or most strategic So not not your standard questions that you would typically get, but you get fascinating answers from people and insights
00:03:06
Speaker
And you see a few themes throughout too, but they're short.
Themes in High Achiever Insights
00:03:10
Speaker
there So not everybody answers all the questions. Some write a paragraph or two on several of them. Others, it's a few sentences. But to get insights from such a variety of backgrounds and people and success levels and things that Uh, but it's usually it's short. It's usually about three pages. Yeah. Uh, so you can consume. So it's different, like CEOs. and several Yeah. It's CEOs, writers, philosophers, actors, musicians, politicians. I mean, it's ah I think, I forget how many people he sent out to you, but people who have achieved levels of success, like high levels of success in a variety of different industries and backgrounds. Um, and.
00:04:00
Speaker
I think that's what kind of adds them that is you some of these people I like, I don't miss I would never pick up or pick up their book or information or investigate them or just, we don't necessarily align on the surface. But some of the insights that that they provide on some of these questions like yeah are ah One, they're all high achievers. So it does give you perspective of some of the grit or things that they've done to accomplish some of that. But then, yeah, just insights. I would have never pursued insights from some of these people. yeah They're not in my wheelhouse. They're not in my interest. But fascinating insights into their life and advice they've got and
00:04:54
Speaker
um Again, all high achievers, so they all had to overcome things and different strategies to how they cope with if they get off track or things like that.
Meditation's Role in Success
00:05:03
Speaker
And yeah that there's one that I've seen it a through line through with a lot of them is, and it might there might be a bias attributed to Tim Ferriss in that these are people that he's reached out to that might have been based off his own personality. but but yeah meditation has been a huge one that's popped up in several of these. I've seen a lot of people talk about that. I don't personally, it's hard for me to do so. But yeah, I've always like, I mean, I, yeah, but I think I can see the value in it. But I can't speak to it because I don't do it. So I need to understand it makes me it has definitely made me want to look into it further.
00:05:45
Speaker
If there's this many people from different walks of life that are high achievers, or there's there must be something to it. It's just the quieting of the mind and the health benefits, the stress benefits, I guess.
Six Keys to Leadership Respect
00:05:59
Speaker
that I think it's in focus a little bit, too. I like the books like that, though, where they kind of study you know different high achievers in different areas of life or different areas. and uh, careers and stuff like that and kind of like pick these key attributes about them out and say, Hey, this are, again, those things are not black and white. Like if you don't have those, does it mean that you're not going to, you know, be a leader or be, be whatever, but, which is kind of a little bit, what we're talking about today is gaining respect as a leader. So we've got six key points.
00:06:30
Speaker
That does not mean that if you don't have these 60 points that you're not not going to get respect as a leader. These are just things that like I've jotted down, you know, I have a notes to have on my phone that I keep, you know, if I listened to a podcast or thoughts come in and I'll literally put them in categories and these are some things I've written down over the years. Um, so gaining respect as a leader is kind of the topic of today's podcast. I like bullet points. I like being at the points. I'm going to read the six points off and then we'll come back and kind of dive into each one.
00:06:59
Speaker
So number one, a laser focused execution. Number two, a strong emotional intelligence. So being able to read the room, how to articulate your thoughts and stuff. Number three, over execute and follow through on all levels, all levels meeting, not just your career, not just work, but also personal life, fitness, family, things outside. So you you're not just a ah one hit wonder when it comes to to your career, but you suck at everything else in life.
00:07:29
Speaker
Number four, be a clear, concise communicator. Be precise yet personable. Number five, be consistent in your emotions, responses, and actions. And number six, be intentional and show up for people. Again, there's probably way more to this list. You can have some of these, none of these.
00:07:48
Speaker
You know, but I think these are things that people should at least try to work on. These are attributes that I think a lot of the leaders that I look up to in life have at least a majority of these. Um, the ones I respect and maybe that's my personality type will tend to have at least some of these. So we'll go back. Number one, the laser focused execution. So to me, this is your leader who can focus it on a task and basically see it through to completion.
00:08:18
Speaker
probably pretty efficiently, probably with a level of OCD-ness that you know it's done well. um But yet you cannot, and we talked about this pre-show, you cannot lose sight of the bigger picture, which I will let you talk a little bit more about that one, because that was more your point. But the laser-focused execution, to me, it is that leader that you can almost see it in their eyes that once they get focused in that this company is doing A, B, and C,
00:08:45
Speaker
you almost kind of know they're probably going to do those three things once that leader gets honed in on it. And I like that, you know, it's almost like a fighter going into a ring or a sports person. You know, I look back at like, you know, Michael Jordan was the dude in my era growing up and that dude had like your focus execution like no other. um So anyway, so Travis, talk to me a little bit more about the bigger picture, though. So being able to have that, but not losing sight of the big picture.
00:09:15
Speaker
I think both of them are needed in the sense that there's a time and place for both for for tactical level laser focused, but then also as strategic. So front sight focused ah in the military is you get fixated on the target through whatever weapon system and that's how you improve your accuracy. However, it's what would be attributed to tunnel vision.
00:09:40
Speaker
in that sometimes it's 100% needed, but at other times is you're potentially opening yourself up and making some vulnerable to other threats. So when you take it from a managerial or strategic or run a business or run an organization is both are needed. Sometimes you 100% have to be laser focused on whatever the task is at at hand.
00:10:00
Speaker
But at the same time, not at at the expense of the overall strategic view. And I think there's several branches that can be can go through. So here's the first quote, Mike twatt Tyson. and Everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face has been maybe overused over the past few years. has come So getting laser focused for too long if you prioritize ex and you're executing.
00:10:22
Speaker
You're executing for a period of time, but if you spend too long there, you'll start to lose the peripheral. You start to lose the strategic vision. And so that part is you need to be monitoring how your laser-focused task-oriented initiative ah is being affected or potentially being affected by the things, how it's affecting the things around you, and is it still the appropriate strategy? Do you need to pivot?
00:10:50
Speaker
ah ah excuse yeah Going through the the task, where we're just going to do this and hammer and everything's a nail, and we're just going to keep hammering hammering hammer, despite whatever might be – whatever feedback might be available to you on the peripheral. And then leading an organization too is – there is The leader's job is 100% to take that strategic view. And if you get to maybe the entry-level frontline workers or those that are executing the task, maybe they have an over-index a bit on laser focus. And then the leader, there needs to be somebody looking at the strategic. That's maybe not that frontline worker's responsibility. Their job is to execute whatever has been prioritized
00:11:39
Speaker
But the leader, that is 100% your role is strategic for you. And if you're not doing it, probably nobody else is. And then if you parse that out too, when you get into organizations, the further up you get, the further away, so you look at a multinational corporation or just a large corporation.
00:12:01
Speaker
The further up you get away from those that are executing code or building the product or dealing specifically with the customer, the higher level leadership, the CEO is probably not in most cases going to know every aspect about every detail and every nor is that necessarily their job. It helps if they.
00:12:23
Speaker
dive down and stay close and can see what their their organization is doing at the granular level, at the the level of combat and where things are happening. It helps, but at the same time, the further away they are, they've got other priorities that are just as important. and They have to be focusing on that too going back to the strategic versus the tactical.
Emotional Intelligence in Leadership
00:12:45
Speaker
I agree the The leader needs to be the visionary, ah you know Casting that vision, you know Maybe outlining help and outline like the key points to get to where they want to go But like you said, you know, so being laser-focused bus while still being that visionary Well don't jump into number two so the strong emotional intelligence so I
00:13:04
Speaker
You know, we talk about like leading through difficult times, you know, and there's always the human natural human responses to basically there is an emotion attached to a difficult time almost always. So to me, you're more positive leaders are aware of that emotion, but they will lead through that difficult time in a calmness and a resolve with a plan. So the people who were that you're leading.
00:13:32
Speaker
don't feel the the chaos of the moment, because they they already feel that anyway. you know The natural human response is to have the emotion to feel the chaos. And if you're looking to someone to lead you through that, and that leader is someone who also is very visibly distraught from the situation, it actually makes the chaos and all of that that much worse. That's leading through difficult times. The strong emotional intelligence to me, though, is almost the ability to relate to the people you're leading, um, tailoring your message to the individual. So not having a one size fits all approach that doesn't mean you're lying or being fake. It just means that you have your points to make, whether that's a B and C, but you realize I have this person I'm working with. I have this person I'm working with. I have this one I'm working with. I need to tailor that message to each of those in order for my message to be effective. And I think,
00:14:30
Speaker
developing that strong emotional intelligence where you can relate to those people, understand them, realize that you're dealing with a human that, that has their own needs to be met and and and they're not a robot. But anyway, I think having the ability to relate, but then also having that likability. So, you know, some people, I think, think likability has more to do with like, I'm just being nice. And to me, that's not what that actually is. You can be likable by just being genuine and raw.
00:14:58
Speaker
You know, there's some people I know that by most definitions, likability would probably not be on the high end, you know, of what people would think about them. But once you get to know them and you see the rawness, you see the genuineness, you see ah the authenticity and you see that they're not being fake in any area, then all of a sudden there's more of a, the likability actually moves to loveability because that person's different. You know, so I think having an emotional intelligence to where you're almost like you're, you're okay.
00:15:27
Speaker
with who you are and you're genuine anyone in that regard, but you're also okay with other people being different than that. And having that ability to relate is I think a key aspect of of being a leader and having that emotional tell us. But what what are your thoughts? Authentically caring about the people. ah Authentically caring about them. It's not a task, the checklist. It's not a tactic to influence people, although these are byproducts of you actually caring about them genuinely, for for the empathetic things. So on the podcast, we talked specifically about emotional intelligence is the empathy component doesn't necessarily mean weakness or that you get down their wall with them, which is it
00:16:13
Speaker
Once you become aware of the emotional intelligence, you start to try and work on it can be maybe pitfall if you're not cautious about it. Your objective in there is to truly understand where they're coming from truly understand what's impacting them from an emotional component.
00:16:33
Speaker
And through that, you can make maybe wiser decisions that might not that might be a tough decision, might not just be all flowers and sunshine. You might not be able to fix it. You still might have to go through hell, but you're not doing it blindly. that We are humans. We are driven probably predominantly by emotion. We try and keep that in check, but it is a very real thing that drives all of us. and how you're acting can impact the other people, which then in turn impacts you and sets you on a course. And I think it's John Maxwell's that's been used for forever was people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care in that.
00:17:18
Speaker
they They want to know that you care about them, that you understand where they're at, that you're a part of the team, that you're a part of the organization. You you understand you're not just this cold machine. And in turn, they're not just a cog in the machine. You are people. I guess that dichotomy that a lot of leaders struggle with is your job is to get stuff done, to lead, to make things happen, to meet a profitability percent or whatever it is.
00:17:46
Speaker
and And it almost does treat a little bit of a robot if you're not careful. Yeah. And we just balance. yeah And the further away you get. So I think we've we've seen a lot of the iconic leaders throughout history. So whether it was Winston Churchill or from the Marine Corps, Jesse Fuller. But a lot of these iconic leaders who were at those upper echelons They their stories about them getting down into the field and suffering with their people to a degree that doesn't mean that's where they lived. Sometimes they did and that they were they were more akin to that lifestyle. Maybe they came up through that. And so they.
00:18:28
Speaker
they came up through the ranks of that industry, and they rose to the level of leadership. And so they always had a a natural inclination to go down there and and be in the trenches with their people on the front lines, whether it was military or in the out in the field. part of that So that there was sir ah I think it was Simon Sinek who wrote it in one of his books about, I think he's specifically talking about the the Marine Corps leadership that he studied at Marines last, it might have been, but but yeah the it's taught in officer candidate schools is not always practiced in the field in that
00:19:06
Speaker
yeah there there was a few historical figures that embodied where they would not take comforts. So they if there're their men were marching or eating or sleeping or experiencing a hardship, they didn't take the the officer yeah entitlements that were afforded to them. So they didn't eat the better food. They went out there and they ate whatever and MRE or canned, something that they didn't take the Jeep ride. They didn't sleep in the better quarters.
00:19:37
Speaker
But I actually think it might have been Teddy Roosevelt or something that was but talked about how am I supposed to lead my men? How am I supposed to lead my people if I don't know what they're going through? If i I've got heating or air conditioning, how do I know where my people are as far as they're hypothermic or they're overheating?
00:19:58
Speaker
if I'm not experiencing some of the same. So that might be maybe an extreme, but its it still shows the relatability. The impact and the emotional intelligence, being authentically caring about your people and knowing where they're at so that you can make decisions on their behalf and the organization's behalf by understanding where they're at, not necessarily crawling down if it's a negative situation and wallowing in the sorrow because that will just perpetuate more sorrow. There's no there's been nobody to lead them out. It's almost like ah at least let them know that you've been there, done that. You know what I mean? So it's a, it's a reliability thing of they've been where I've been. And if you haven't, because there's sometimes leaders are put into positions where they go down there and learn, expose yourself. bob I think there, there's that,
00:20:54
Speaker
that actually causes a chasm in the leadership and the workers is when they have leadership that's not willing to go.
Psychology and Leadership Education
00:21:02
Speaker
It's fine that maybe they didn't come up through that industry, but they should take an interest in in what's going on. And when that doesn't happen, the assumption automatically runs away that well, they think they're better or there's this elitism. And then there becomes a separation between those working in the managerial staff and the workers or whatever or the the leadership that typically results in and negative things or negative outcomes. Yeah, and I agree with that. And to kind of finish up the second point, I think some of our institutions, educational institutions, fail this point a little bit in like business school where
00:21:43
Speaker
you know when ah when i was in school so i had a business degree but i purposely just because i wanted to took a bunch of psych classes as well mostly because they were just interesting to me um and they were somewhat easy compared to some of the classes to take but That should have been part of the curriculum, looking back, because specifically the ones I took, because it did help to give a different understanding to psychology and leading you know with that in mind. And I think it's a little bit of a disservice that we don't have at least classes. It doesn't have to be a psych class, but at least some kind of class that actually relates to human behavior, understanding, and all of that. It should be in any leadership course. But anyway, they don't make you take it. But if you're listening and you have free course to take, take a couple.
00:22:28
Speaker
Number three, over-execute and follow through in all levels. To me, that is one that probably grinds on my gears more than most if I'm dealing with another higher level person is if they do not execute or if they say they're going to do something and they do not do it or they don't respond or they don't get you what you need to for you to get your stuff done. To me,
00:22:49
Speaker
Basically, they're not dependable. To me, that will ruin someone's ability to lead me personally, really, really quick, if I do not think they're a person of action or a person of their word. So to me, over-execute and follow through is huge. It's all about the dependability. It's knowing that they will do what they say they're gonna do. And I think with that comes, I think you should actually over-deliver and over-execute to an extent as a leader, because you're setting the standard for what your organization you're your whoever you're leading, you're setting that standard. So to me, if you say you're gonna do B and C, do B and C and then go ahead and do A while you're at it, to me. um that Then I know that you are someone that when they say, hey, I'm doing this, whether that takes them a month, two months, five months or a year, they will do it and I can count on them to get it done at some point. They don't need to be reminded to get it done.
00:23:45
Speaker
um And I can task that person or they will task themselves or lead. And when they say they're going to do these five points, they're going to take care of those things that they will take care of those things. What's the you Travis? I know you guys have points to see your thinking face on. so there So there's so many little, I don't even know who to attribute, but if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. There's a bunch of those. Like little quips or whatever.
00:24:12
Speaker
um Now, this executing and over-executing, over-delivering, I think are delightful things, especially in this day and age of where customer service is one that comes to mind for most people in most organizations, because that's something that's really gone away. Some of the younger generations probably maybe don't even understand. Unfortunately, yeah. There's also thresholds. Was it Burger King's that yeah the customer is always right. And that might might not always be the customer who isn't necessarily always right, but but that was the the mentality of that was was being strived for as far as customer service. And you always notice when organizations go above and really take care of you. And so that's one that's that's probably most visible to all of us. But executing and over-executing or over-delivering,
00:25:09
Speaker
So there's there's another quote that I absolutely love, and I don't know who to attribute it to, you but your actions speak so loud, I can't hear what you're saying. and We talked about this a little bit in the marketing realm as far as this is what I do, but then yeah what you get as a customer is significantly less.
00:25:28
Speaker
and i think there it it's It's not what you preach, but what you tolerate. And so from a leadership standpoint, of what's the expectations you set within your organization? One, are you leading by example, but then are you giving above and beyond to the team? But then two is what are the standards that you've set? and ah It's diminishing returns and on all aspects. yeah I think you were, I think Ed and I had said something similar, but you you get what you tolerate essentially. So if you tolerate it, you can expect that to probably be a reality really soon. I think to kind of sum up number three, you know, I think if you as a leader are simply not going out there and over-executing and following through, I
00:26:18
Speaker
I don't see how your team is is going to execut you know over-execute, follow through. you're You're setting that standard and you're setting a bad standard. Number four, be a clear, concise communicator. So be precise, but personable. So I've had people communicate both ways. I've had people be way too personable, way too friendly, use way too many excavations and and emojis, and I can't take them serious. I've had other people be so concise and precise that I feel like I'm dealing with a robot that could give no care about anybody's feelings at all. So I think this one is one of those balance things. I think if you can somehow learn to communicate where you are to the point, um, but yet personable to where they don't feel your robot and they actually want to do maybe what you're asking. Um, I think that
Effective Communication in Leadership
00:27:07
Speaker
is important. I see a lot of people at both ends of that spectrum, you know, my world is lives inside of emails.
00:27:15
Speaker
A lot of it is, you know, staff emails nowadays, and most of them communicate in a similar style. Um, but every once in a while I still get like the sales emails or emails from a vendor or someone we work with. And there's some of them, like it it may be just a few words, you know, like, man, like I haven't talked to you in five months, at least that's how the, you know, something's doing in my life, you know? Um, but it's just so precise. Um, but I don't think that's as effective long-term as a leader.
00:27:44
Speaker
to be that way all the time. I mean, obviously if it's an email chain and you're five, six emails deep, you can probably be precise and, you know, to the point at that point. But, um, I think people need to know that you care. I think, but as a leader though, it can't be all fluffy and all rainbows. It has to get to the point. And I, I think I may have told this story in one of the previous podcasts, but if not, I'll reiterate it anyway. Um, I had,
00:28:13
Speaker
Two professors in college and one was an English professor, so essays and writing. The other one was was the dean of the business department. And they were married. And the business department, I went into his, I don't remember the name of the class now, it was one of the best classes I took in in college. But basically what he did is he took his wife's essays from their final, big whatever, ah from the previous class, marked out the name, blacked out the names, blacked out everything.
00:28:42
Speaker
And I think he had to be at least 10 pages and he hands it out to the class, explains that this is how you're taught to write, but nobody in the business world wants to ever read this. So do not ever send anything like this to anyone in the business world. Take this 10 page document and condense it down to a half. I think it's a half page is less than a page and don't miss any key points. And then he went through like the writing style of, you know, I forget what it's called in like the legal realm, but it's four letters and I'm drawn a blank.
00:29:13
Speaker
Um, but basically you're laying stuff out at the beginning. You're using a full few bullet points in the center and you're reiterating your point at the end and calling a call of action. And that was one of the best classes I took was combining that one then also with some of the psychology classes. But of being able to write that email or communicate, you know, in a speech or whatever, where you're hitting your key bullet points, there's a call to action, but you're yet somehow relating to your audience in a personal way. So if that's an email.
00:29:42
Speaker
You're obviously, you know, joking maybe a little bit, using some humor, talking about their kids or something you talked about last time. If it's in person, you're doing a relatable story, you know, something where they can relate to you as a human. I think the use of humor is good. You know, in those situations where you're making some light, but then also getting back to the point of, Hey, this is what needs to be done. And this is a call to action to get there. Anyway, Travis thoughts.
00:30:08
Speaker
So so the there's a book have there's a book There's a book I haven't read i bought it I haven't read it it's up here of up there yeah where where Just grab it. Read it to the, rearer I think it's back there. It's on your right. Make a bigger impact by saying less. Okay. in so I'm going to write that one down. What's the name of it again? Make a bigger impact by saying less called brief. Okay. So they i've I've seen, again, I think it's a dichotomy at all of this. It depends on personality. It depends on your personality. It depends on the personality of the people.
00:30:53
Speaker
I think in some cases we have a tendency to talk way too much or inappropriately or not read the room or whatever. like ah Communication is so important in every aspect. I think you and I are actually a good dichotomy on this to talk about. So when we first started working together, your emails were long. it's more But but you're you're analytical. You're very analytical. And I remember um remember one time you sent one.
00:31:22
Speaker
You already know this. So this is, this is anyway, you sit on one time. I remember I forwarded to my executive assistant. I said, Hey, can you take this email? I can just notify bullet points because I don't want to read this whole thing, but that's two different, totally different styles. But like you said, you know, you're, you know, you basically worked analytics and intelligence type stuff in, in the Marines, right? You're off yeah Marines, right? Yeah. yeah marines Yeah. So that's a totally different world though. So like the details and all of that stuff matters a lot.
00:31:51
Speaker
But I mean, so yeah, I definitely come for I want to know, I want to know that as much context as possible on stuff, but also realize that sometimes the context isn't there. And but if I can have more context, I can make a more informed decision. And so yeah that has been a learning piece for me, especially as so during the briefing room and understanding to who you're communicating to. So there would, and this has been an evolution, also writing versus speaking. So in the intelligence world, you're constantly, depending on what level you're you're operating at, you're constantly standing up in front of people. You read tons of information, which there might be only 10% that's applicable. You have to read all of it, but you understanding one, your customer, what's important to them.
00:32:50
Speaker
so that you know what to parse out out of all this information that you're reading so that you know what you can extract, but then when you're communicating it to them, if you're standing up in front of them, how do you communicate? You don't have all day, you don't have all all the time to add color or context, but sometimes you do, if you're going on a specific mission, you're pulling up imagery and you're talking about little holes that were dug and the temperature difference of the holes and what that might mean, whether it's IED emplacements or cache that were buried or different things, which is super important because that cache could have weapons in it that could impact the crews. So versus your briefing higher level command that your piece of the story is only one little piece of an overall and you don't have the time nor do they have really the interest about that dirt that was moved or the name of the village tribal elder and the relationship that they had up. But for me in my head that that gave
00:33:47
Speaker
big context to what maybe I was going to brief overall, which influenced the strategic level bullet points that I put up there, because it influenced on a ma micro level, it influenced the macro decision or whatever. But depending on the audience, you need to be able to translate that knowing that what they care about and what's going to move. But being able to parse that out, if you have a very analytical mind, you think, well, everybody's going to appreciate the context and they don't and then ah but then here's where the emotional intelligence for you too is you people will get offended like when they dismiss like oh my goodness I could care less like what do you mean you could care less that was super important they're like they like yeah they're just being flippant with their responses and what they're gonna do and but often also for for them yeah for the the higher level leadership maybe there are if they got a personality where they're just broad brushstrokes
00:34:44
Speaker
Maybe they do need to understand a little bit more context, as opposed to make Slippet big course corrections. Or maybe there's a time that, yes, the big course corrections are needed, but then now I need to fine tune off those course corrections, which maybe require more information. But there I don't i was gonna a of looked it up. But there's a great memo that Winston Churchill put out during the the Battle of Britain about brevity. And he put it out to all his commanders.
00:35:14
Speaker
because they were very much giving long reports. except He's like, guys, god he he made it a point out of all that he created a memo who to put out about memos saying brevity. Guys, we have life or death things happening. None of us have the time to read these 15 pages, figure out what you're going to say, say it up front and get on with it essentially. But that has been taught in communication courses ever since about brevity, getting to the point and then There's even executive courses and stuff now about communication. ah If you're going to put the report, it's the executive summary up front. the put put the the meat You know that what they're actually getting at um and what they want to know before you you communicate. And if you feel like they need context, put the meet up front and then add the context below and they can choose
00:36:11
Speaker
To perceive for I found that's been beneficial when I feel like they need I've seen a couple of people do that before I had one sent me an email that way They did it as an attachment which wasn't necessarily necessarily needed as an attachment, but they the email was just the points Like this is what I recommend here's five bullet points. This is the action I think we need to take going forward then they attached basically the details for those five Decisions slash bullet points, you know, I'm like, ah okay like So it's kind of one of those things. Like if I just trust that person and I just like, Hey, this was assigned to you. I trust your points going forward. Let's just do use five bullet points. But if I had a doubt on number three, then at least if I wanted to, I could go back. Okay. That's, here's how that person came up with, with that point or decision. So and where that that's helped me with the analytical is sometimes it's, it's not, no, I, I think I know what they're asking.
00:37:02
Speaker
But it's not a clear black and white answer. There's some ambiguity. There's some gray area. And rather than me prescribed like, bam, black and white, this is your answer. Like, here's what I think. And here's the context below. below So right ah ah where do you want to go to eat? Or where where should we take the team to eat? I don't know what what what what time, what do people like? Do they have? You put out like, hey, 6.30, let's go here.
00:37:31
Speaker
Here are the other couple options in case the times don't work or here's what I was saying. Like I heard, I know somebody said that they don't like seafood. So if if that becomes an issue, here's the hamburger place that you could add, make a decision. You know, that all they're wanting is a decision to be made, throw it up front and then maybe add the context. Like I don't, I don't know. um Add the context or thing and they can choose whether they want to dive deeper into it. That's going to really good.
00:37:57
Speaker
like bow Yeah, I think that's good. And I think if you have the ability to know who you're writing to, you know, you can tailor it a little bit there. You know, I mentioned the exec my executive assistant earlier, like, she's like, it's funny, her and I can really have one sentence emails back and forth for weeks, you know, because they're we're both so to the point, and she's got a legal background. So it makes her even more to the point. But but like, you so with her, so you know, we're totally cool with these little to the point, you know,
00:38:25
Speaker
how we're precise and direct it needs to be emails. And that's awesome, you know, for me, but this person is at work for me now, but had a person that was in the management team a few years back, um, that I more needed to make sure I had a little bit of humor, maybe throw in an emoji once the while, because it was viewed as almost being a little bit too direct or too robotic or unfeeling. So.
00:38:47
Speaker
you know, and I would do that to let the person know, Hey, we're good. They'll just, you know, let's, but but let's get this stuff going. Let's get it done. So anyway, knowing your audience does matter if you have the ability to know the analytical mind will run with that Kurt response and make assumptions about 15 different ways. Like, like i that means this Oh my goodness. so They didn't like it, uh, that there were, um,
00:39:12
Speaker
What does that mean? and You go 10, 10 miles down the holy crap. I'm just, this thing's going to blow up and the company is going to go under and your mind will run away. ah You are anti emoji and I, I, I am with you too. And that I see it as QT culture thing. I was like, I have no, but I think there, there's a dichotomy to this as well. So there, there's two lines of thinking and one is.
00:39:42
Speaker
People will add emojis to like social media because in a world of black and white and blocks, any pop of color yeah will draw people's attention to it. um And there may be less looking if you if you're putting some silly stuff in there, yeah, it can do't totally detract. But if it's relevant or on topic, little emoji with the chart or something, it's literally just meant to draw people's eyes to it. So there is maybe a play, and I understand that place.
00:40:11
Speaker
There's also a place that, and I'm not necessarily a condoni, but to help understand is there is a generation that's come before us that they communicate in emojis and it's completely logical in there. An emoji can represent three lines of text. And so it's shorthand. It went from LOL and BRB where we created these,
00:40:39
Speaker
three letter acronyms for stuff, it went to emojis where they're communicating maybe an entire paragraph that they would type out in one little cute little icon. And it's that's that's ah it's become a way that they communicate and they don't want to take the time to read through nor and and now it's been a few it's been several years where they've been ingrained into that. So it is almost a form of shorthand for an entire generation.
00:41:09
Speaker
that, uh, to help explain that there might be places for, or why you're getting communicated to an emojis. It's not necessarily because they're immature, uh, which that's what older generation, like, why, why are you sending me cartoons? They're in, you're not seven. Um, why am I getting a little happy faces or, uh, which that's the way it can be taken, but it it's ah culture mismatch a Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:37
Speaker
I'll use it more once in a while on a personal level, but that's it. But I'll start viewing it as efficient. I'll try to understand what they mean. That is just efficient. I mean, I'm with you. I'm not sending tons of emojis, but I try not to judge as much when I get emojis. I'm going to communicate with you only via emojis. I'm trying to decide. You've got to figure it out, dude. You've got to figure it out. Thank you, AI. Yeah. We'll do what he can say. Yeah.
00:42:07
Speaker
of number five, be consistent in your emotions, responses and actions. So kind of the notes I put down there is don't be four different people. You know, I think one of the powers as a leader, not that you cannot again, I somebody sound like it's I'm anti emotion, I'm not. It's those being consistent. So knowing who is going to show up, you know, I, I have worked for a person in the past that was a little bit more inconsistent and it was always kind of like a joke in my head. If I wonder now, I won't say the name. I wonder if this person dash A or dash B or dash C is coming today to the meeting because that's how I need to prep for this meeting. I don't know who's showing up, which one, which version of this person showing up and it created a chaotic working environment that was not productive. That wasn't efficient. That was just chaotic and people were upset and worried about stuff. So I think if you can learn to
00:43:01
Speaker
That's not really even learned. As a leader, you need to be somewhat consistent. People need to know who is going to show up and that you are going to be fair. You're going to be logical. You're not going to blow off the handle.
00:43:15
Speaker
To me, that just creates an environment of a little bit more of a fear-based leadership, more of there's a little bit more chaos. I think turnover is probably higher in those environments. I don't have data here in front of me to say that, show that. But I know I personally would never want to work for that person. So I'm assuming there's a few others that probably agree with me on it. But as a leader, you have got to learn to be consistent in those things. Doesn't mean you can't show them. Doesn't mean you don't have them.
00:43:40
Speaker
But don't go off the rails with stuff. And that can be anger. You know, anger is an emotion too. And I've seen people like that as as leaders. And it's the same thing. It's a chaotic work environment.
Consistency and Authenticity in Leadership
00:43:51
Speaker
I think this goes back to being authentic. and maybe Maybe the analytical personalities too. So here I'm going to say that the dichotomy or the outliers on some of this is, but it comes back down to self leadership and emotional intelligence and understanding yourself. but blood sugar can affect yeah how how you feel. I think there were studies done about judge rulings before and after lunch. and the input So blood sugar, how you the way you slept and how it's impacted, but part of that would be you understanding yourself, understanding, reading the room, looking how am I how i behaving, ah um being consistent. but
00:44:38
Speaker
There's also when when the outer self, and this is years ago, it was getting to the psychology, but anytime that the outer self is so far away from the inner self, the usual chaos ah ensues in the sense that if you're projecting a certain persona of you and that's who people interact with, it's fake. your You're putting a lot of energy into maintaining this persona.
00:45:04
Speaker
If you're able to act and pull it off to where people don't see completely see through it, and which has other consequences, they know you're not being authentic and that you don't really believe or treat them and that way. there's There's chaos even in that, in yourself and those around you. and if you don't So if you have it under control a lot, there's still internal chaos. you don't you're feeling You're uncomfortable, you're stressed, you're always putting on this front. Sometimes when it slips,
00:45:33
Speaker
And you're, so let's say your're you're a hard charging CEO that can't, can't show any emotion or see your level executive or, and my people, I need to give them a stern front and I'm always confident. and But you under underneath are unsure, silly or goofy. And that slips out every now and then to where you crack jokes. But 99% of the time you never crack jokes.
00:46:01
Speaker
So more often than not, it's probably not whimsical like how it's that he cracked a joke, or the which can be seen as endearing, but they see it as a conflict. And it's incongruent with the person who they think you are because you're being two different. You're not really being yourself, you're putting on a front or a face. yeah And if it ever break one, it's chaos within your mind and stress to keep it all up. But A lot of times it'll break. Somebody will see that side, the inner side of you at some point, and they wonder why you're not that person consistently. or there's some And it starts to create chaos with the people that you're around in in your your life. ah But then there's also a segmentation. So I'm saying all this to say there's the dichotomy, too, in the sense that there are other things that can affect it, but it's so much
00:46:57
Speaker
ah inappropriateness, knowing the audience and the people that you're around. So not that the dichotomy to that of, yeah, you need to be serious, and you don't need to be goof around at inappropriate times and know know the room that you're in and the people that you're talking to, and how that's going to impact or affect things. But at the same time, as you've got to be authentic across the board in that yeah you got to know who you are and not let that inner self and that outward self veer too much apart, but still be appropriate in social settings. Yeah, I think that's accurate. I think most of the ones I listed were more of negatives, but I've even been around people that are like ah like the used car salesman persona of it's just overly kind and happy and you know, it's too much, it's too fake. You know, I think that is detrimental in this zone, right? but
00:47:52
Speaker
You brought up authenticity a lot, and I almost wish you would have had a seventh point that was honesty, authenticity, and rawness. Because I think that is what people really want, is to just fully know who their who that leader is, um the goods, the bads. But that that again, that's bringing in that personal goodness. But it's also, that is still consistent. So if you're raw and authentic all the time,
00:48:16
Speaker
to me, people probably do know who is going to show up because you're not really ever fake. You know, it may vary a lot, but they could probably predict who is going to show up though because you're genuine, you're authentic and you're raw. So, you know, I think people want that. They don't want the fakeness. They don't want the actor leader. Most people can see through it. I'd say I yeah more often than not, 99% of the time, when you think that you're doing a great job acting or portraying yourself to something different, most people can see through it. Yeah. And and they might not fully understand, they just know something's off. Like something just doesn't seem right. Which then creates a trust issue, which is not never good in and any leader. Their voice inflection, the words they use, their body movements, just something was off.
00:49:12
Speaker
your point was then is they don't trust that interaction, which then becomes a trusting issue. Oh, yeah. Who was you think you are and as great as you think you are about um acting and putting on a face? Most people, not probably not good enough. Yeah, I agree. um We're getting close to the hour mark, almost right at it. um So we'll wrap this up. But number six, be intentional and show up for people.
00:49:39
Speaker
I think that's a huge one. I think it's something that leaders didn't do enough of. I can think kind of in your, just a few years ago, there's a name I have for that area, but like the sixties and seventies where it's kind of like, you mentioned like the tough kind of raw leaders.
Intentionality and Genuine Care
00:49:53
Speaker
um I think being intentional is showing up for people as an important aspect of aspect of leadership. So, you know, if you have someone on your team who's got some legitimate personal stuff going on, if you can step in as a leader and help them,
00:50:07
Speaker
My gosh, that goes a long way. you know You can do all these things at work, but if you fail to show up when there's a time of need and in a way that you could have, maybe it's not something you can even do anything about. But if there's something you can do about it and you can help, I think by all means, you should be doing that as a leader. You know you have all these people who give the majority of their work life or you know day to you at work.
00:50:32
Speaker
If you can't step in for a little bit in the evening or step in on a weekend here and there, obviously you don't want a case to work on, but it most people that not and that's not the circumstance. But if you can step in and and show them, Hey, I actually, actually care about you and I'm willing to take this action to do so. It's not just something I'm saying. It's not just while you're at work, but if I can step in once in a while and help in some way, shape or form,
00:50:58
Speaker
Um, I think that goes, oh my gosh, it goes a long way, but it shows that you're genuine. It shows that you actually care about them. It's not just words that you're saying. So I think showing up for people. And again, if you're running a group of 50 people, a hundred people, 200 people, you're not going to be able to do that every weekend or every evening. So there's other ways you can show up for them though, whether that's at work.
00:51:21
Speaker
you know actually taking the time to hear something out like they're struggling with something instead of blowing it off or sweeping the rug actually hear it out sometimes that's all it's needed but letting them know through action through listening i actually care or maybe it's just giving advice but something to show that you actually care about their personal life not just their work life
00:51:44
Speaker
I think it goes back to the the human thing that we were talking about. And it won authenticity, but then to caring about your people, truly caring about them. That leads to genuine conversations and emotional intelligence, and feeds into that and your team's being stronger, it promotes loyalty within your teams. As it does get so community, technical components and digitization of our world,
00:52:12
Speaker
adds a layer of complexity in there for everything that we were just talking about before is because what you're saying can be misconstrued and there's a level of emotional separation through words via text or emails and your true intent can totally be masked or misinterpreted because you don't have any other cues in there for them to feed off of to understand your intent.
00:52:36
Speaker
ah And you have to be super conscious about that, but ultimately showing the people that you care by truly authentically caring about them leads into all those other things. we From a leadership perspective, you've got to be super cognitive of that, and you're saying as you get larger organizations,
00:52:56
Speaker
There are other things. Maybe you can't be there personally or know everything that's going on. One, that that comes back to your relationships and truly going back down. So the the leader, the military commander going into the field and being in the trenches and walking at night.
00:53:16
Speaker
out there and understanding and empathizing and understanding the impact or the effects of all of the frontline part. ah like You can go out there and just through a demonstration of you going out there and showing that you're you understand and that you at least care to understand.
00:53:33
Speaker
But then having those conversations, communicating with those people, things can be revealed to you that if you sat in your library tower and and never participated, but something as simple as knowing people's birthdays that are on your team. yeah I mean, we have technology that can remind you, send them a text, send send them a handwritten card, and it doesn't have to be a long, like, hey, happy birthday. Hope you had their anniversaries.
00:54:01
Speaker
send them Send them a little note, a handwritten note, ah like actually as a differentiator nowadays because nobody does handwritten anything anymore. But send them something that that's personal. It could be super quick, ah but that you had.
00:54:17
Speaker
you're here in this leadership position, have nothing to maybe do with them on a day-to-day basis, but you thought enough to to send them a note. Like something as small as that? I think that's, yeah, that's a good point. I didn't think about it earlier, but that's something we've talked about some on our team is,
00:54:32
Speaker
You know, sometimes seeing that text, even though texts are somewhat impersonal. But if you just send a text randomly, like you just said to someone, just says, Hey, thinking about you. Hey, how last week you mentioned this was going on in your life. How did that get resolved? That just shows number one, you were listening, shows number two, Hey, randomly in the middle of the day, he asked her, she asked about that. You know, so that takes no time in the grand scheme of things, you know, so that's a good point. And then be authentic to you.
00:55:02
Speaker
but yeah Here's the dichotomy again. ah like If something comes up in there and you have the ability to impact or affect it and the positive help resolve it, plug them into the right people or something to help resolve it, ah do that you actually cared about it. It wasn't the tactic to try and feign that you cared about them, but if something gets brought to your attention, try and help them with it. But then also, if you're on the other side of that,
00:55:27
Speaker
um You don't want to be the person that's all every communication that you're having with these people is you're bringing up some chaos. They're like, and that's now they're like, damn, if I text them happy birthday, and there's going to be a problem associated with it. You don't want to be that for Friday. So so you use it sparingly. But but I think it goes back to just being human. Yeah. Authentically care about the people around you. Yeah.
Episode Conclusion and Call to Action
00:55:55
Speaker
So I think that's a good wrap up for the podcast. So Learn how to communicate, do it effectively, do it precisely, still be a human, make them feel like a human as well. Is that summing up well? All right, we're over an hour. So let's wrap this one up. If you guys liked this podcast, please share it. If you hated it, find another one. Love you guys. See ya.