Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S2E6 - Australia's Circular Economy w/ Lisa McLean
31 Plays24 days ago
During our interview with Lisa McLean, Managing Director and CEO of Circular Australia, we learned of some of the impressive circular initiatives happening in Australia, such as:
- The importance of building circular "precincts", a place to keep resources in circulation locally.
- The new ISO 59000 Global Framework for implementing circular economy principles
- Several of Circular Australia's members doing amazing things, such as Allmould's collection of St. Vincent's Hospital's plastics waste to form new plastic blocks for use in the wind industry.
Lisa is the Managing Director and CEO of Circular Australia, an independent peak body for circular economy innovation. She has successfully advised industry and governments to bring market change with new policy frameworks and regulations enabling the circular zero-carbon economy over the next 20 years. Formerly a political journalist, Lisa was also founder of the carbon accounting service Carbonwise and helped establish the Clinton Climate Initiative. Lisa is leading the transition to a zero-carbon circular economy in Australia.
👉 We'd love to hear your feedback, share your questions or comments below.
👉 Like & Subscribe so you won't miss out on our upcoming episodes!
👉 Keep up to date with the Infrastructure Sustainability Council: Website: https://www.iscouncil.org/ LinkedIn: / infrastructure-sustainability-council
#podcast #infrastructure #sustainability #buildingtomorrow
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Once you put the circular goggles on, it's really hard to see the world in another way.
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome back to Infrastructure Connections, the podcast where we explore what makes sustainable infrastructure work, brought to you by the Infrastructure Sustainability Council. I'm your host, Seth Scott, and today we'll be talking about the circular economy with our guest, Lisa McLean.
00:00:28
Speaker
Lisa is the Managing Director and CEO of Circular Australia, an independent peak body for circular economy innovation. She advises industry and governments on new policy frameworks and regulations enabling the circular zero carbon economy over the next 20 years.
00:00:45
Speaker
Well, hi, Lisa. Welcome to the show. Hi, Seth. How are you? Very good. Very good.
Optimism in Circularity
00:00:50
Speaker
um Just to get started, I noticed you've been involved in carbon and circularity for a long time now. So it can get frustrating.
00:00:57
Speaker
What continues to inspire you about this area? I think that um circularity is optimistic. As I said before, the circular economy transitions, very optimistic. Our young people um and emerging businesses, people need hope.
00:01:13
Speaker
They need to know that there is going to be ah rich, diverse planet that they can enjoy with natural capital and trees and biodiversity and other creatures other than humans on it.
00:01:25
Speaker
um They need to know that it'll be a safe world um aside from the geopolitics and wars, but that there'll be not contaminants in waterways, that creatures and living things won't be dying because of old-fashioned practices and lazy legislation.
00:01:42
Speaker
So I think circular economy is very optimistic. As I said to you, does mean we need to rethink things because we're wasting 90% of the stuff that we use and make, food and products.
Decoupling Growth from Consumption
00:01:53
Speaker
We use it once and off it goes to landfill, we burn it or it's out of our reach and we can't use it again. so It really means we can decouple our economic growth from the consumption of finite resources because there's so much waste.
00:02:08
Speaker
If we didn't have 90% waste, we couldn't do this, but we do. And we have very inefficient um um productivity. So productivity is low, particularly in Australia.
00:02:19
Speaker
ah Materials efficiency is low for these exact reasons. And um people are overwhelmed with waste in their homes and packaging in their homes and they want new ways to do things. So the optimism comes in with these new approaches.
00:02:34
Speaker
Fashion as a service. We know it worked with lighting as a service. We know it worked with mobility as a service. How can we get fashion as a service? Instead of buying garments, we can rent them and they're high quality. Maybe we would never have been able to afford them in the first place if we tried to buy them.
00:02:51
Speaker
They can go back. They create jobs by getting repaired and they get used. If you own that garment and you're leasing it out. Instead of selling it once, you'll sell it over and over again. You'll sell that service over and over again. So circular economy through as-a-service models, for example, can really drive down the price point for the consumer and it can increase revenues for the a company that with with that service.
00:03:14
Speaker
So it is optimistic. It's also, a Seth, a framework through which we can, one, design out waste and pollution, one, Two, keep materials in the economy at their highest
Circular Economy Goals in Australia
00:03:25
Speaker
value. So don't turn a glass into road field, turn it back into a glass.
00:03:30
Speaker
And three, regenerate natural systems. So there's not many economic models, if any, other than donut economics and circular economics that allows us to do those things, to grow an economy while protecting and enhancing nature.
00:03:47
Speaker
So that's the goal, but right now we're at about what, four to 5% circularity rate? In Australia, we are globally at 6.9% and you're right, it's going backwards.
00:03:58
Speaker
And what how does that um how do we get to that number? What's in that number? So every 18 months to two years, Circle Economy, which is an a think tank in the Netherlands with Deloitte, have put out a circular and circular gap analysis, a circularity gap analysis.
00:04:17
Speaker
And what that shows us is how the world is performing in terms of taking secondary resources and getting them back into the economy. And it shows colossal waste, It shows 90% waste of more than 90% waste. We started at about 9% in 2018. And now then we're about 7.2% 18 months and now we're at 6.9%.
00:04:38
Speaker
seven point um two percent eighty months ago and now we're at six point nine percent And that's the amount of secondary resources that are actually um getting going back into the economy.
00:04:51
Speaker
There are some optimistic signs ah this year. um And so so firstly, to to explain why we're going backwards, our economies are in a J curve of growth globally.
00:05:03
Speaker
The hot economies of the South, big countries, that are coming out of poverty, consuming more, bigger middle class, means that there's a surge in material consumption and and this take-make-waste approach products.
00:05:19
Speaker
So the levers and the policies that we are seeing in circular economy, and we are seeing some progress globally with countries introducing legislations and policies, 75% of our trading partners have them in the G20, for example.
00:05:33
Speaker
But the reason why is we can't keep up with that surge in growth.
Recycling Infrastructure and Opportunities
00:05:38
Speaker
So we are making progress, but it's not fast enough. Secondly, recycling is increasing.
00:05:45
Speaker
So we are seeing more infrastructure and we have got an opportunity. We're getting close to sort of 20% if we can get a few more industries in of recycling globally, which is good. So that is a growth area.
00:05:57
Speaker
What's the bulk of that 5%, 6% that we're actually achieving now? Well, if we look flip it on its head, the areas we're not achieving is in the built environment.
00:06:08
Speaker
you know Imagine there's a huge housing agenda in Australia and construction agenda in Australia. And we, you know we with 1.2 million homes to be built in the next however many few years.
00:06:20
Speaker
And so that construction, you know the built environment has a lot of waste um it It oversources supplies of tiles and timber and all those things that go into building a house.
00:06:32
Speaker
And it oversources that because if it undersources it, it's time delays and time delays at cost. So often there's a lot of redundancy that's built in in terms of material use.
00:06:44
Speaker
So we're not going so well in the built environment. Some areas that we have looked at at Circular Australia with huge economic opportunity for Australia, um there's five areas that we've looked at. One is green steel, one is low carbon cement, another is PET plastics, and then we've also got ah textiles and lithium.
00:07:05
Speaker
Now, in Australia, we have a simple economy. Unfortunately, we rank lower than Uganda on the complex economic index. So we simply dig up resources. We sell them not for much and not for the benefit of a lot of people.
00:07:19
Speaker
And then we import everything. and then we either burn or landfill or export it back overseas for that residual value to be utilised. So what we looked at at Circular Australia in our Circular Markets report released last year was what does the dark arts of supply chains look like?
00:07:38
Speaker
What if we mapped where all this lithium is going? At the moment, most of it goes offshore or it's lost value in in um e-waste and other things that are a landfill.
00:07:50
Speaker
But if we could get our hands on that and change that value chain, make it circular for 2035, there's a $3 billion dollars economic opportunity to it to to extract lithium.
00:08:03
Speaker
There's a similar massive opportunity in PT Plastics. We are seeing companies like Coca-Cola, which has got a weight on its shoulders and a responsibility for plastic waste, achieving really good um ah outcomes with return and earn schemes. This is one area that is working where we're seeing are plastic bottles going back to be plastic bottles through infrastructure that's coming online and collecting the aluminium and collecting those materials.
00:08:31
Speaker
those containers um and it's creating jobs and that model of of of container deposit scheme is going to be really really important Seth for other industries and we're starting to see battery recycling piggybacking off those locations wine bottles coming in and other containers potentially potentially coming in So the collection is a really big part of this transition. We're just not going to get there if we don't have the infrastructure and systems to, one, collect the waste we're creating so that we can recycle it and remanufacture it, upcycle it, remanufacture it.
00:09:09
Speaker
And two, alternative services so people don't have to consume it and from the
Barriers to Circular Economy
00:09:14
Speaker
start. They can um use less material you know have less products and materials in their home um but still have their needs met.
00:09:23
Speaker
That was my next question is, what are the structural barriers to a circular economy? Is there is it um the actual manufacturing plants that can recycle the materials or is it regulations or is there something else in the way?
00:09:36
Speaker
I think the number one is a lack of um harmonised legislation. So we have are fragmented legislation and regulation across states. So they're not truly valuing secondary resources as they should be.
00:09:51
Speaker
um And they're also not harmonising procurement, which is a big lever for government um to um activate a circular economy if government can use its purchasing power um to send a message to the market through procurement it's a big It's a big step forward, but we're just seeing fragmented approaches to that.
00:10:10
Speaker
Taxation policy is another big one. I mean, we need to tax the externalities. Of course, there's been lots of discussion about a carbon tax. These become more and more important to send the right message to industry um and government. And I must say,
00:10:24
Speaker
This current administration has, you know, really rapidly and um moved us forward with circularity. You know, it set up the ministerial advisory group on circular economy, which I was part of, chaired by John Thwaites.
00:10:37
Speaker
um They also, um we finished that consultation process. approach with industry, more than 200 industry groups. They all want, they all want to be regulated.
00:10:49
Speaker
um and we And then the federal government released its framework at the end of last year's Australia Circular Economy Framework. And it has got some strong targets in there. Yes, we double want to double our circularity rate, which will only bring us to around 8%, 9% by 2035. But in there is a really important target to improve our materials efficiency and materials consumption.
00:11:10
Speaker
Not many countries around the world have got targets around improving material consumption. So the framework is a really good start. We need an act. We need harmonised estates with that procurement and and other options to really ensure regulatory and standards are equal around the states so that of companies can plug and play in our massive geographic region and smaller population. Then we also need an act a circular economy act that can replace the waste legislation.
00:11:40
Speaker
And that act is there to set strong design standards for um so that things can be made to last, they can be made to be repaired, that the IP to repair them is publicly available. And we saw during COVID respirators locked in cupboards that were broken and
Circular Precincts and Industrial Symbiosis
00:11:57
Speaker
couldn't be fixed. People actually died because that IP wasn't available. The screwdrivers and the IP and whatever was weren't available to fix those respirators.
00:12:06
Speaker
So we need design standards that will ensure that there's no toxic things in these products in the beginning. Otherwise, will be a dumping ground as the other countries have legislation that stops PFAS and microplastics and other nasties, forever chemicals in products.
00:12:22
Speaker
um And then the other thing is, of course, ah we need to b looking at place-based circularity. We need infrastructure and systems to activate circularity. So we need a place like that example I gave before with CCEP, Coca-Cola Europe Pacific doing its return and on schemes with other partners.
00:12:43
Speaker
We need places where new businesses can actually process waste streams that would otherwise go to landfill. They might be dangerous. They might be um slightly toxic.
00:12:54
Speaker
And we need safe places for them to be processed, to have their value maintained to get them back into the market. And so remanufacturing and recycling and other things as well. So a big part of that you mentioned is targets, and that requires a lot
Data and Standards for Measuring Circularity
00:13:09
Speaker
of data.
00:13:09
Speaker
um Where do we see that being collected for inputs, outputs, and waste right now? So interestingly, the data's there. It's just we need to pull it together in the right ways. And at the moment, Circular Australia is about to release a really exciting, our latest report, which is with MRSA and our Finance and Investment Taskforce with Commonwealth Bank and others.
00:13:35
Speaker
And this this report is a guide for investors and a guide for lenders. And what we've discovered and we've for the first time brought together embodied carbon ah data with data sets and metrics on which we can actually measure the ah circularity of of sectors and businesses.
00:13:57
Speaker
um And I think there's been a lot of fear around this. You know, we've got the... um um disclosure requirements now for um financial institutions around environmental and nature nature positive and net zero. um And there's been an apprehension, oh, we have to add circularity to this.
00:14:16
Speaker
Well, circularity actually sits above it all because we're not going to get to net zero ah without looking at the embodied carbon and looking at circular strategies. And in a similar way, we're not going to be up to grow economies effectively ah with the same linear model.
00:14:33
Speaker
It will have an impact on nature. So we have brought, MRSA has brought together in partnership with Footprint Lab um and ISXO and other um big organisations, data organisations, to crunch some numbers and demonstrate it is possible for actually us to put metrics on um and um data sources to look under the hood and see how come our sectors are performing um when it comes to circularity.
00:15:04
Speaker
And the ones that aren't performing um typically are overinvested in linear models and that's something that they're going to have to change to thrive in ah in ah in in a resource and carbon-constrained future.
00:15:17
Speaker
And I just also want to add that there's now also ISOs. The ISO um International Standards have introduced the 59,000 series, which is 59,010, 59,020 59,004, which are really powerful guidance for businesses and organisations on metrics and how to measure circularity. And Circular Australia also has its own metrics which we produced with um ah UTS um Institute of Sustainable Futures.
00:15:48
Speaker
So the metrics are there and the data is also there. What we don't have is application, and operationalising circularity and really ah us rolling our sleeves up and getting on with this.
00:16:02
Speaker
Right. Well, you'd mentioned having a safe space for this activity to occur. Is that what you mean by a circular precinct or what is that? That's correct. So that's exactly what Circular Australia has been very focused on. We have a task force, which is precincts and infrastructure.
00:16:18
Speaker
We put out a report last year with Oricon, a guide on how to activate circular precincts and the evidence as to why we need them and why they're important. And we're seeing circular hubs or precincts emerging in Europe.
00:16:32
Speaker
We're seeing the big economic hubs of France and Germany and the Netherlands and other countries, Norway, embrace circular standards through the UNIDO certification, which is industrial ah symbiosis certification, which is looking at how they can share water, share energy, share um utilities, um take waste streams and make them resources for new products,
00:16:55
Speaker
So these this um really important synergies, um which sounds like efficiencies and productivity, which it is, but it's also designing out waste. We're seeing that model starting to apply in Australia, um in Western Australia, um and then and then also New South Wales government is setting up the special act to break like activation precincts.
00:17:17
Speaker
um And those special activation precincts at parks and Wagga will be UNIDO certified. So, you know, it's really important that we have places to that are safe um and and understand the principles of circularity and how to apply them safely um in these precincts.
00:17:38
Speaker
And it is a bit about building these spaces so businesses can come there and operate in a way that's going to be more sustainable and productive. But I think to start with, there's really obvious demonstrated, um you know,
00:17:52
Speaker
downward pressure on utility costs, water, energy, if you're sharing space, sharing energy. And then the opportunity to co-locate, for example, which Parks is doing, you know, where, um you know, waste, um food waste is used to feed, fish farming, which can then be used for,
00:18:12
Speaker
for pet food, which and so it goes on. So those sorts of synergies, are um that industrial symbiosis piece is going to be a really big one. But then there's also other precincts that aren't industrial symbiosis that are safe places um for the processing of waste streams. And I mentioned CDS locations.
00:18:32
Speaker
There's also um precincts that can be local local community gardens they can be um precincts of natural capital that are connected together by several tiers of government to really enhance biodiversity amenity for communities um and improve um carbon sinks are yeah are there any manufacturers that are really showing that they can do this
Case Studies in Circular Economy
00:18:58
Speaker
Yes. Well, I think of one example, actually, it's just a small regional company that was involved in a program we did with St. Vincent's Hospital in Sydney.
00:19:07
Speaker
Right in the middle of COVID, we helped collect, helped St. Vincent's Hospital collect ah needle caps and ampoules. um And it was it was a really difficult time. it was considered unsafe ah waste stream in an unsafe time during COVID, but we managed to do this trial um And the plastics, which are barely touched, a very high-quality PET, were turned into wind farm components roller door wheels um by all mould plastics out at Orange. And that company is growing. It's just a regional company. But what we demonstrated in that trial is that there's enough um revenue and savings
00:19:45
Speaker
um to hire 41 nurses if hospitals looked at changing their processes with that one-way stream. So I think the benefits are there's lots and lots of benefits. There's block techs, which is taking um fashion waste with Virgin, for example, their uniforms and turning them into pulp and organic farming materials.
00:20:08
Speaker
um We're seeing IQ Renew on the Central Coast handling about 70% of plastic waste from ah Sydney moving into organics.
00:20:19
Speaker
um And so there's lots of examples and certainly our members as well that are applying circularity. And we did actually in our ah conference, Seth, on Tuesday, our Australian Circular Economy Forum, in our precincts one, we looked at a precinct that's established, which was Bega Valley, which is a brilliant example of Bega Group supporting circularity in that valley.
00:20:44
Speaker
And we looked at um um emerging precincts, which is Sustainability Victoria, an arm of government in Victoria, which has set up regional precincts um precinct Then we looked at an activating precinct, which is actually in the Illawarra, and we're helping them with other players and four tiers of government and big um industry down there to turn that region into a circular precinct, but they've just started the journey.
00:21:09
Speaker
And then we looked at an aspirational precinct and we crossed down to the Air Peninsula um in South Australia ah with a whole lot of industries and people who really want to do this and they want to start. So I feel like that's kind of the scale at the moment.
00:21:24
Speaker
There's a lot of wanting to activate and activating, but established is still, small Sounds like there's a lot of opportunity there. I mean, you quoted the fact that there's more gold and silver in a ton of iPhones than there is in a gold or silver mine.
Urban Mining and Mineral Retention
00:21:40
Speaker
Do you see circularity as a form of mining at this point? and And when do we get to the point when we actually get to mine landfills, for example? think it's absolutely um an emerging business and we'd be crazy not to. we' We're running our i mean our critical minerals list grows every year.
00:21:55
Speaker
We're going to need a huge amount of them to achieve net zero. We need to secure those critical minerals for our own development. And so how do we keep them on shore? How do we get processing to extract them?
00:22:07
Speaker
um And obviously, um you know, one of our members um circle um is Australia's biggest ah critical minerals recycler. um And, um you know, they are actually have investment from a mining company.
00:22:24
Speaker
So and when I was in Brazil for the World Secure Economy Forum, we saw the really smart mining companies looking at how they can partner with um urban miners is what we call those recycling of of minerals out of e-waste and other things.
00:22:39
Speaker
How can they partner with um urban mining companies to de-wisk minerals their investment um and also, you know, extract that really productive ah output.
00:22:53
Speaker
um And, again, it comes back to over-investing in infrastructure that's not going to be fit for the future. And you imagine mining is still very specific. Even, god you know, they smash up and do a lot of damage to um natural resources to extract one thing.
00:23:13
Speaker
when there's lots of other resources there that could also be harnessed. So I think the modernisation of that that sector is something they'll all be very focused on. and The Minerals Council of Australia is very interested in circularity and one of the key stakeholders um ah for um the CMAG report, development of the CMAG report.
Encouraging Sustainability in Consumption
00:23:35
Speaker
What's the one thing you think our average listener can do to get started on this circular economy path? I just learn about it because once you put the circular goggles on, it's really hard to see the world in another way. So I would recommend training programs.
00:23:50
Speaker
Circular Australia offers some. There's others you can read about it, read some of these reports, um and then look at some of the businesses and what they're doing. And you do have a choice.
00:24:01
Speaker
So, you know, think about if you've got lots of fashion consumers in your household? Can you get a subscription for fashion as a service, for example? um And also, so we always need to own something? Can we borrow it?
00:24:16
Speaker
Can we share it? um And um i think I think these are perspectives we can all we can all think about. And products now are coming onto the market. So you've got a bit of a choice. Look around, look for the products that are recycled, look for the products that are making an effort um to have reduced packaging and a smaller ah footprint.
00:24:40
Speaker
Great. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks, Seth. It was delightful talking to you. Thank you for listening to Infrastructure Connections. Please follow us wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're watching this on YouTube, leave a comment below on what you think of this topic in this episode. We'd love to hear your feedback.
00:24:59
Speaker
Meanwhile, stay tuned for the next episode of Infrastructure Connections.