Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S2E2 - Circular Innovation w/ Veena Sahajwalla
18 Plays3 days ago
This week on Infrastructure Connections we're talking to Veena Sahajwalla about micro recycling and the circular economy. The takeaways from this episode give us new ways to look at circularity:
1. Companies are starting to re-think their identity. "We're not a waste company, we're a supply company." We supply resources as feedstock, resources that used to be waste for someone else.
2. "If we zoom down to the micro recycling level, every material is important." If it was an important component of the original product, it will be important to recover for the next product.
3. "Sustainability is a normal way to think. The more we can make it a norm, the more we can think of practical ways in which sustainability comes to life."
4. We need to think of sustainability and recycling on a local level, specific to the local industries who need it, and make that recovery a priority. This is compared to the current method of sending our waste overseas and then buying it back as sources.
Veena puts the re in resource.
Veena is the Director of SMaRT Centre (Sustainable Materials Research & Technology) and Associate Dean (Strategic Industry Relations) faculty of Science, University of New South Wales.
Her research interests include sustainability of materials and processes with emphasis on environmental benefits. She invented an environmentally friendly process for recycling plastics and rubber tyres in electric arc furnace steelmaking.
She is an international award winning engineer. In 2012 she was named Overall Winner of the Australian Innovation Challenge Award. She was awarded the 2012 Banksia Award, the GE Eco Innovation Award and the 2005 Eureka Prize for Scientific Research.
We hope you enjoy this episode. From now on we'll be releasing episodes on Thursdays fortnightly.
👉 We'd love to hear your feedback, share your questions or comments below.
👉 Like & Subscribe so you won't miss out on our upcoming episodes!
👉 Keep up to date with the Infrastructure Sustainability Council: Website: https://www.iscouncil.org/ LinkedIn: / infrastructure-sustainability-council
#podcast #infrastructure #sustainability #buildingtomorrow
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Micro Recycling and Infrastructure Connections
00:00:00
Speaker
We have to be able to say, well, if we zoom down right down at the micro level we're saying at the micro recycling level, every material is important.
00:00:19
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Infrastructure Connections, the podcast where we explore what makes sustainable infrastructure work. Brought to you by the Infrastructure Sustainability Council. I'm your host, Rebecca Santiago, and today we'll be talking about circular innovation with our guest, Veena Shahawal.
00:00:39
Speaker
Professor Veena is a globally recognized material scientist and inventor that's transforming the recycling industry. She's the founder and director of the UNSW Smart Center and the mind behind Green Steel, a breakthrough process where they use recycled tires,
00:00:58
Speaker
into the steel making process.
Veena's Journey into Sustainability from Mumbai
00:01:01
Speaker
Professor Vina developed the first micro factories in the world for e-waste, plastic and green ceramic turning waste into valuable materials.
00:01:12
Speaker
Vina also leads major recycling hubs and works closely with the industry to deliver real world impact. Her groundbreaking work has earned several awards such as the 2022 New South Wales Australian of the Year, multiple ERECA prizes, and most recently, an officer of the Order of Australia in 2025. Well, Vina, thank you so much for joining us in our podcast.
00:01:42
Speaker
You've really been in the forefront of circular economy, and I'm so excited for this episode and to learn more about your work. So before we jump in into the exciting part of...
00:01:54
Speaker
the innovations that you lead in Let's just start from the beginning, shall we? Could you please share a bit about your journey and what first inspired you to explore sustainability?
00:02:08
Speaker
yes So thank you so much, Rebecca, for having me on your podcast. um Sustainability is ah almost a normal way to think.
00:02:19
Speaker
um And the more we can kind of make it a norm in the way we all think about, um you know, caring for our planet and people, um you know, the more we can ah think about practical ways in which sustainability comes to life. So for me, sustainability started, um you know, all the way um back in India. I was a kid growing up in Mumbai. That's where i was born.
00:02:43
Speaker
ah In a city like Mumbai, not only do you see all kinds of you know production and industries, but at the same time, you you see a lot of grassroots level activities.
00:02:55
Speaker
um So I'm always struck by how people are so um entrepreneurial in spirit. um your People want to come and collect things. old newspapers and that then gets sold on um for recycling or they want to collect old glass bottles and that then gets sold on for recycling.
00:03:14
Speaker
and And I think part of what I really enjoyed in a way um was just to be able to connect with people because it helped me kind of really reflect on the fact that, oh, so all those old empty glass bottles, you know, medicine bottles, for example,
00:03:32
Speaker
um you know, had some value in it because all these people who are coming around collecting it would be more than happy to give you a little reward in return. And a little reward could be a little bit of pocket, ah you know, pocket money kid, you know, even a small amount of pocket money to go off and buy a lolly was was a pretty big deal, you know. So um you sort of um had a sense of pride because it was like, oh,
00:04:01
Speaker
kind of something I've earned, you know, because you had to work for it I mean you had to collect your old models and you had to work for it. So I think to me, you know, that that's kind of in a way, um thinking way back in early part of, you know, life um was, was quite an exciting time because of course, you know, you do get to see so many different facets of life.
The Smart Center's Contributions and Collaborations
00:04:24
Speaker
That's amazing. soon Thank you for sharing that. I, So talking about your um work at Smart Center, you built something pretty unique.
00:04:35
Speaker
Can you please share with us more about the work that you're leading and how is that embedded into the infrastructure sector nowadays? You know, we we at the Smart Centre really love working.
00:04:49
Speaker
um and And I think it's it's also a reflection of the fact that um ultimately when you're working on a field that you know is going to be, um you know, a combination of complex science and and and engineering, and of course then eventually how that um gets deployed in in practice.
00:05:10
Speaker
ah these are These are not easy questions, um but to be able to have ah people who who want to come along on that journey with you, um you know, across from different walks of life is something that we feel ah really so lucky to to be able to connect with our industry partner, for example.
00:05:30
Speaker
um in Sydney, you know Renew IT, we work with them on recycling plastics. We've got other industry partners um who are really looking at recycling waste textiles, for example.
00:05:44
Speaker
And I think to me, all of this is a reflection that, you know, we're not just giving up and going, well, that's too hard to recycle plastic or this textile is too too difficult because, you know, all we can really do is is really, um you know, leave it in in waste. and And sadly, it will remain in landfill or it'll get buried as we see, know,
00:06:08
Speaker
in in the world. So I think to me, you know, taking on some of these challenges head on is something that we do need to do. and And this is for the collective future of our planet.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And it's clear that this Mars Center is not just generating ideas, it's you guys are actually reshaping the way we're thinking about waste and materials.
Exploring Micro Recycling and Material Rebirth
00:06:32
Speaker
And one standout example is micro recycling, which is now starting to gain serious global attention. Could you help us understand how is micro recycling different from the traditional recycling approaches?
00:06:48
Speaker
ah Yeah, really good question, Rebecca, because when we think about recycling, where're we're really sort of thinking about a plastic water bottle becoming the same product. So, you know, that like for like conversion is the normal way we think about, you know, um more conventional recycling solutions. And absolutely, we should be doing we should be doing more of that wherever possible.
00:07:10
Speaker
and But, you know, in many instances, and that kind of yeah more conventional recycling doesn't really work. um And we have to start to ask, well, if you had a more complex collection of different kinds of materials, um you know, how would you actually recycle that? If we were to look at it very strategically, we'd be able to go after all the important materials metals and other materials as well. So, you know, the fact that you might have electronic devices that are also rich in copper and tin, for instance. So, you know, we have to imagine a future where micro recycling is about very targeted approaches towards recovery and putting materials back into the supply chain.
00:08:02
Speaker
So we can start to also think about remanufacturing. And that's really where, you know, micro recycling comes into picture that when we go after very targeted pathways, you know, the value is created from going after some of those important um materials is really what micro recycling is all about. Now, it may well be that, you know, we change completely the product that,
00:08:30
Speaker
At the end of that remanufacturing journey, that product comes out in a whole new form. And I think the more we think about materials being reborn over and over again, but they can come back in different forms, I think that to me is so exciting that we can start to think about our materials, you know, at the molecular level. And then when we do think about them at the molecular level, those molecules could be reborn, become part of a whole new product.
00:09:00
Speaker
And now we've suddenly got different kinds of products that micro recycling has enabled us
Overlooked Waste Streams and Industry Partnerships
00:09:07
Speaker
to do. Yeah, absolutely. And so now that we're talking about the industry, especially infrastructure, we usually think about the big materials when it comes to recovery or recycling, like steel, timber, concrete, but From your point of view, are there any other waste streams that we tend to overlook, but you think they have a real potential? know when we talk about, you know, refurb and retrofits in infrastructure,
00:09:42
Speaker
we have to think that, you know, some of the materials that have a really, really long life, um you know, like steel and concrete will, of course, you know, get pulled out at the end of a much longer lifespan.
00:09:57
Speaker
But in in the relatively ah short to medium time span, you know, we may upgrade, um you know, our switches send and electronics and sensors and so on. So even starting to think about what happens through the process of upgrades, I think is an important thing to think about in an infrastructure setting.
00:10:19
Speaker
ah it's It's very important that, you know, through these conversations, um and as we're having some of these live discussions ah with our different industry partners, they're excited about the fact that, you know, they can they can come to us, ask what's in in different kinds of assets that they might have pulled out and they might be replacing those.
00:10:41
Speaker
And that's really how conversations with some of them have started over the last few years. They've they've come across to the smart center. they've They've had a cup of coffee, had a bit of a chat. And then before you know it, they brought along some old devices that they're busy, you know, unscrewing up and kind of trying to show us, you know, I remember one of the conversations where literally was like, great, I've got this this slide fitting. Okay, well, let me just kind of unpack it and show you what's what's in there. What can we do about this part? What can we do about that part? I think to me, that was that was a great, great way for us to also really try and understand that, hey, you know what it might just be ah little part that might be sitting on our ceilings that we may not even notice.
00:11:27
Speaker
ah But There is value in all of these kinds of materials. The fact that we should be not putting them into landfill starts at that point. um You know, we talk about hard hats because, of course, when you're when you're on an infrastructure project, you've got ask the question, what happens to all that PPE, whether it's hard hats or your safety glasses?
00:11:48
Speaker
So the conversation really has to be very multifaceted. And we have to look at the overall ecosystem.
Circular Economy in Infrastructure and Future Opportunities
00:11:55
Speaker
And if you want to be sustainable, you have to ask the question, well, you know, if I'm not using that hard hat anymore, and yes, it's no longer usable because it's reached, it's used by date and it's got ah um it's got to be replaced.
00:12:10
Speaker
ah Yes, there are rules about, you know, the life of these products, but the material yeah in that hard hat, for instance, um could well be ah reformed and used for remanufacturing a completely different product. So I think to me,
00:12:25
Speaker
These are the kinds of conversations that we can all be having ah when it comes to sustainability, when it comes to ah sustainability in in the world of infrastructure. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
00:12:38
Speaker
um And you mentioned earlier that it's important to have that trust within partners, which really speaks to the kind of mindset that is essential nowadays in the industry.
00:12:54
Speaker
But at the same time, um climate resilience is getting more and more attention, but circular economy still seems often forgotten.
00:13:06
Speaker
So how do we make circular economy part of the way we build resilience into infrastructure rather than just treating it as an optional extra?
00:13:18
Speaker
Asking the questions of your service providers can be such an important first step that you can take and and ask many, many questions. You know, don't just be happy with the fact that somebody might say, oh, well, don't worry about it. It gets recycled.
00:13:33
Speaker
But, you know, you have to then take that questioning to the next level. Well, how so? Exactly what happens to it? So if it gets recycled, does it get remanufactured into another product?
00:13:44
Speaker
And where does that happen? We know it doesn't happen overnight, but the most important thing you know, thing to start with is to question the fact that where are these materials going to come from?
00:13:57
Speaker
And if we can join the dots between going away, so that end of life product actually is rich in that particular metal. And if that metal can go right back into remanufacturing right here locally in in the region where I live and I work,
00:14:15
Speaker
I'm going to enable more of that circularity and circular economy to come to life. Do you think the real change will be technology, like strengthen our regulation, or is it a shift in public and industry culture?
00:14:34
Speaker
and I think i think you know a shift in in public and um industry culture is absolutely critical. Because we know so many times that, you know, we've we've seen many communities, you know, at the forefront of doing things that, you know, surprises us.
00:14:53
Speaker
And we go, wow, this is this is pretty cool. Yeah, absolutely. And that cultural and behavior piece is it's really essential. Yeah.
00:15:05
Speaker
Because even like you mentioned, like we have the best technology and policies, but it's our behavior that it's often shaping the real change. um So speaking about change, we would love to hear about some of your successful um stories or even other um successful stories that you've been working with other partners.
00:15:30
Speaker
um what Are ah there any um infrastructure projects in Australia or even globally that are truly leading circular innovation and what makes them different from all of the rest and for them to be successful.
00:15:48
Speaker
I was blown away when, um you know, a company that supplies waste materials and in in particular waste Rubber told me that they've been supplying our technology, um green steel, which is polymer injection technology. And to hear that story from from the point of view of the waste company wasn't just about, hey, we're a waste company, but actually, you know what? We're we're not a waste company. We're a supply company.
00:16:17
Speaker
And seeing their role a small part, but a very important part in being able to supply, um you know, appropriately controlled feedstock for polymer injection technology to be able to contribute to the making of green steel in electric arc furnace steel making operations. They were there being supply partners and they wanted to be part of the supply chain. And and I think to me,
00:16:45
Speaker
This goes to the heart of that issue of we all have a role to play. So really, thank you for for that. It's a great way for us to be able to show that, you know, science can truly have an impact um on on our environment and and on our people and delivering a better planet for everyone.
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah, no, thank you, Veena. And before we wrap up and looking into the future, where do you see circular economy taking and the infrastructure sector into the next level, let's say in the next 10 years?
00:17:21
Speaker
This is not just about the environment. This is about recognizing that this is an economic opportunity. And I think to me, over the next decade, we're going to have to have conversations that demonstrate how this can lead to and deliver economic benefits for for our communities and for our businesses. you know Infrastructure as an industry sector can play such a big part across the supply chain, whether it is end of life materials coming into the supply chain or or reformed and remanufactured products going into various projects.
00:18:01
Speaker
I think across that entire board, you know um infrastructure um you know has such an important role to play in in showing that this is going to make um you know good sense from an environmental point of view, but also it's going to deliver economic
Conclusion and Future Podcast Episodes
00:18:19
Speaker
benefits. So it's going to be a win-win for for our economy as well as for our environment.
00:18:24
Speaker
Veena, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, your passion and your vision. This has been such a rich conversation. And I'm pretty sure our listeners will walk away feeling more inspired and challenged, but all in the right ways.
00:18:42
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
00:18:47
Speaker
Thank you for listening to our podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform and also connect with us on your socials. We would love to hear your thoughts and your feedback helps us to shape the conversations we bring to life.
00:19:05
Speaker
Stay tuned to your next episode. And from now on, we'll be releasing our episodes every Thursday. Until then, keep connecting, keep building and see you next time.
00:19:15
Speaker
Thank you.