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Avengers: Age of Ultron
150 Plays4 years ago
Now that WandaVision is complete, we revisit the film that introduced the Vision and Scarlet Witch. We talk about why even though many consider it the redheaded stepchild of the Avengers films, we both love it. We praise James Spader's underrated performance, discuss how Hawkeye is the glue of the Avengers, and explain why we think Aaron Taylor Johnson is a superior Quicksilver to Evan Peters. And yes, we do address the Black Widow/Hulk stuff that set the internet on fire once upon a time.
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Transcript
Audible Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey Derek, guess what? Hit me with it. We just got a promotion with Audible. Audible, fantastic. I love Audible. Do you know what the cool thing about this deal is? What's that? If our listeners go to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod, they get a free trial with Audible. And do you know what they get with that?
00:00:22
Speaker
What do they get with that? Tell me. They get one free audiobook of their choice and they get two free Audible Originals, which is special content that Audible makes available free for all its subscribers. Are you kidding me? That deal is so good I may go myself and sign them. Do you think they let you keep the books after you're done?
00:00:43
Speaker
No, you're not gonna tell me they let you keep the books after you're done. Yes, in fact, you can go sign up for a trial and you can cancel before the trial ends and you get to keep the books you've already downloaded.
00:00:55
Speaker
Well, I don't see how you can beat that with a stick. Exactly, yeah. And you get lots of great books, especially for fans of the show. You can listen to Super Gods by Grant Morrison, which is all about how the superhero comics have changed and evolved over time. Or you can check out Marvel Comics, The Untold Story. Which is a terrific book. I have that both in hardcover and I listened to that on Audible myself in my car while traveling back and forth.
00:01:21
Speaker
And there's also another similar book that's called Slugfest, which is about like the wars between Marvel and DC Comics. Oh, okay. So that's another one you got to check out too. So yeah, head on over to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod and start your free trial right now. You got one free audio book and two free audible originals, and you can keep them even if you cancel before it's over.
00:01:55
Speaker
But it's a trick. No, no, it's much more than that. Who's to other be he where they shall haveeth the power? Whatever, man, it's a trick. Please be my guest. Come on. Really? Yeah. Well, this is gonna be beautiful. Clint, we've had a tough week. We won't hold it against you if you can't get it up. You know I've seen this before, right? All right. Still don't know how you do it. Just know the silent judgment. Please, start by all means.
00:02:28
Speaker
Never want to shrink from an honest challenge It's physics All right. So if I lift it I then rule Asgard. Yes, of course. I will be reinstituting prima nocta. I
00:02:54
Speaker
Are you even pulling? Are you on my team? Just represent. Pull. Alright, let's go. Go, Steve, no pressure. Come on, Cap.
00:03:26
Speaker
Ahem. And? Widow? Oh, no, no. That's not a question I need answered. All deference to the man who wouldn't be king, but it's Rick. You bet your ass. Steve, he said a bad language word. Did you tell everyone about that? The hando's imprinted, right? Like a security cut? Whosoever is carrying Thor's fingerprints is, I think, the literal translation. Yes, well, that's a very, very interesting theory. I have a simpler one. You're all not worthy.
Host Introductions and Life Updates
00:03:52
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I am half your host, Perry Constantine. And as always, I am the other half, Derek Ferguson. How you doing today, Derek? I am doing moderately well. I'm about like 90%. Like I was telling you before we got on, I'm still wrestling with a little respiratory infection dealio here, folks. So if you hear me coughing or whatever, that's what it is. But don't worry about it. I'm taking medication for it. I'm seeing a doctor.
00:04:22
Speaker
I'm okay. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing okay over here myself. I'm getting into, I'm almost finished up with Ghost of Tsushima on my PS4. Cause I bought it, you know, right before the holidays and like I played it a bunch then and then I kind of got distracted by other stuff. And now I'm getting back into it and finishing up and it's, it's so much fun.
00:04:46
Speaker
I am so pissed that thing is not on for the Xbox one. Yeah. You know what? I'm, I'm sure they'll eventually last. It is. It is. It's so it is special. And like, I know you, you're, you're a samurai fan too. And it is exactly like living in a curl salon movie.
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah, because as I understand, they have like a black and white Kurosawa mode. Yep. Oh my God. And it's very easy. Like when I heard about that, I was kind of, you know, I was a little bit not sure what to think of it because usually when they have those types of game modes, it's like, if you enter that mode, you have to play the whole game in that mode. Like you can't switch it off. This allows you to switch it off. Like you just hit the pause menu, you can easily toggle it on or off. Yeah, I mean, that's a game, I have literally not heard
00:05:33
Speaker
bad word about that game. Oh, it's so much fun. He just says it's, it's absolute. I'm hoping sooner or later, I'm pretty sure Microsoft will make a deal and it'll be available for the Xbox one. And which means that I will have to sequester myself in the basement and tell Patricia not to bother me for two or three days. Speaking of samurai, speaking of samurai, um,
00:06:01
Speaker
Have you ever seen this film series called Hanzo the Razor? No, but I've seen it on HBO Max. Yeah, I watched it. Based on, I read a review by our good friend Mark Busquette. He had written a review of it and it's a trilogy of movies. And I want you to watch it. And then after that, you know, we'll talk. I thought maybe we knew about it. You had heard about it. I don't want to say anything because
00:06:32
Speaker
Usually, when people say, well, I want you to see, because you have to see to believe it, and it ends up being over-hyped. In this case, I do think that this is legitimate. You have to see to believe it. Just watch it, and then we'll talk about it. Okay, yeah, we'll have to. But I said, well, you probably see it already. No, I haven't seen it, yeah. Okay, watch it. HBO Max, folks. It's a trilogy called Hanzo the Razor.
00:07:02
Speaker
Watch it and you let me know what you think. Okay. Yeah. We'll have to add that to the list of stuff. We're going to have you on Japan on film for then. I don't know. Like I said, watch it first. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Anyway, any news or stuff? I haven't really been paying much attention to stuff lately.
TV Show Discussions
00:07:26
Speaker
How about you? I haven't been paying any.
00:07:33
Speaker
If there has been, I haven't noticed anything. I haven't noticed anything since the TV show that links up to what we're talking about today. You know, since the end of WandaVision, that's it, I'm wiped out.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I mean, it was such an epic finale. The only two things is I did watch the latest episode of Superman and Lois last night. Okay. And that was, that had a really awesome opening sequence, right? Where he, they're, you know, they're painting, they're, they're repainting a room and at the, at the, at the farmhouse. And then, and it's like this kind of like family moment. And then all of a sudden,
00:08:14
Speaker
Clark hears something going on in China and then he just like zips away and he saves. And it very much felt like the Golden Gate Bridge scene in Superman, the movie. Oh, okay. It felt very much like that, but it was a much more epic scale. Like, you know what? It's really amazing watching like, every time I watch an episode of the show, I'm really amazed at how much they put into this show's budget. Yeah.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's not a cheap show. No, no. It definitely isn't a cheap show. I usually, I usually don't watch it on the CW the night it airs. I usually watch it the next day on the app. Yeah, that's what I do too. Cause I got an app for it on my Apple TV. So I get home from work on Wednesday night and that's Wednesday morning for you guys in the States. So it's up there by that time.
00:09:05
Speaker
Yeah, so I haven't watched it yet. Finally, I have been watching Titans. Oh really? What do you think so far? So, you know what? I didn't think I was going to like a grim and gritty Titans, but I don't mind this. Yeah. I had the same feeling when I saw the, you know, when they had the trailer and it was all, and they put so much emphasis on the fuck Batman thing, but yeah.
00:09:32
Speaker
But yeah, I'm surprised, I thought it actually did kind of fit. I'm up to the episode now where Raven, she meets the Doom Patrol. Oh, that's a great episode. Yeah, I'm up to that. Okay, so this is what I want to ask you. So I thought that according to the Crisis on Infinite Earth, the Doom Patrol on their own earth,
00:09:55
Speaker
and the Titans are on their own earth. So what, are they on their own earth together or are they on separate earth? You know, that's a good question because crisis came out, I think after the first season of Titans. Right. So they very well could have split them onto two separate earths, but I don't think they're, I don't think they made one too much of a distinction one way or the other because, I mean, you know, doing patrol,
00:10:23
Speaker
they don't really interact a whole lot with a larger DC universe anyway. It is just kind of like its own thing. Which, you know, if you look back at like the, the comics, especially like the, the Morrison stuff or like the, who was the, the woman who followed him after, I'm blanking on her name, but you know, when it was very much part of the vertical line, it was kind of like disconnected from the larger DC universe, even though it was technically still part of it. And you didn't have like,
00:10:53
Speaker
I remember there was one issue of the Morrison stuff where they had the Justice League, but they were just kind of like side characters. Yeah. And mostly they don't really, and in season two of Doom Patrol, there is this one scene where cyborgs are like a crime scene and they do make, and the other cops make reference to the part, the whole thing about like there being more superheroes in the world. Okay. So I think they are still in the same earth. I'm not, don't quote me on that though.
00:11:21
Speaker
Okay. Because yeah, like I said, I did not, you know, I said, well, you know, the Teen Titans, well, they're not Teen Titans, they're Titans. Because they're most definitely adults in this one. Yeah. I mean, but I mean, like, the costumes are hork and dub. I was sold. I said, man, that was that was fantastic. And Robin too. I like the Robin. And Robin. Yeah, the costumes are for Robin. It's fantastic. You know, all
00:11:49
Speaker
I'm glad they're not dwelling too much on the whole thing with him being a cop. They got away from that, like, kind of real quick, you know, and sent him off on the road with Raven. So I kind of like that, because I never understood the rationale of Dick Grayson being a police officer anyway. I never understood, you know, why he would even go that route. There was a nod to what they did during, in the Nightwing comics, because there was this period when he decided he wanted to try to
00:12:19
Speaker
um you want to become a cop because he wanted to try to see if he could kind of apply the skills he'd learned as a vigilante and you know try to find a way to work within the law as well um and these are like big memories going back you know 20 years now so I don't remember that clearly but I do remember there was this storyline where he became a cop in the in the nightwing comics
00:12:40
Speaker
Right. So, yeah, I mean, like I said, I wasn't sure how I would take to the notion of a grim and gritty Titans, but as long as in my head canon, I can say, okay, well, this is taking place on Titans Earth or whatever and divorce it from the Titans. I know, you know. But you know what's interesting about it is that even though it is kind of like this darker take, it's still pretty true to the characters.
00:13:10
Speaker
Right? Like there, you know, it's not like, you know,
00:13:17
Speaker
It's not like Man of Steel or Batman V Superman levels great. Or like twist the, like it is still very much those same characters just put in a darker setting. Because the guy that plays Dick Grayson, I think does a very good job of playing a conflicted Dick Grayson. So there's obviously there's something going on with him because he's way more violent than he's ever been before.
00:13:41
Speaker
Right. And he's downright vicious. So then, and he acknowledges that there's something going on with him. And the guy who plays him does a very good job of, I mean, you know, conveying that, you know, confliction, where he's still trying to do the right thing because he's trying to help his girl. But he's got his own issues that he's trying to deal with. And he really doesn't need this right now. But being DeGrace and he still does the right thing. Yeah, you know, so yeah, I really like that guy.
00:14:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's so nice to have a Dick Grayson, who's actually a layered character as opposed to the what we got with with Chris O'Donnell and the Schumacher movies, which is just basically like acting like a 12 year old when he's like 37. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I mean, he was a little bit too old. He was a little bit too old for that role. Yeah, especially like and just like way too petulant.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, unless I'm gonna say, I think this is like the first time we've gotten like a live action Dick Grayson that,
00:14:40
Speaker
feels really true to the character in the comics. Yeah. Because the only other ones, I'm pretty sure, the only other ones, it was Chris O'Donnell and Burt Wharton, that was it, right? Those are the only two Robins I can remember. Yeah, that's what I can remember too. If you don't go back to the serials of the 1940s, you know, you got to go back to that for, you know, versions of Robin. But we're talking about like modern day. Yes, like Burt Wharton and Chris O'Donnell and that's it. Yeah. And of course, the animated.
00:15:10
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Which was really good, obviously. But everything they did there was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. You're Lauren Lester. He was Robin. He was good. Yeah. I did like that when they did the the animated series where they did the college age Dick Grayson as opposed to doing it as a little so that it was a really smart idea because then it allowed them to have him transition into being Nightwing when they and then they brought in the younger Robin. So although I didn't really like what they did with Tim Drake, how they kind of merged him with Jason Todd.
00:15:37
Speaker
Cause like that, that was one thing that, and that kind of makes me suspicious. Cause they're like, it seems like they're going the same route with what they've announced about Tim Drake in season three of Titans. So, I mean, I, you know, Tim Drake's my favorite of the Robin characters. So it's, it's like a real disservice, I think to that character where we haven't really seen him in, in any real iteration. Cause even in young justice, he's very much a small player in that show.
00:16:07
Speaker
Young Justice, which to date is still like the best itinerary. It's not called Teen Titans, but yeah, it is Teen Titans. Yeah. That's still like the, I mean, Young Justice was just like, I mean, the first couple of seasons of that was like my fault. Yeah. I'm on the third season and I'm still trying to get, you know what it is? It's that it's more the outsiders focus. Cause I've never really cared about like Halo and Geo Force. So no, yeah. Yeah. So it's not been as interesting to me as like when it was, you know,
00:16:38
Speaker
I love the Aqualad they created for that show. Yeah. Well, that was the best thing about that show. Yeah, the Aqualad. Yeah, I never was... I have to admit that the appeal of the outsiders was something that never... I never understood why everybody loved the outsiders. Alo and Geoforce and Metamorpho. Metamorpho, I've never kid... It was a character I'd never... People loved in my...
00:17:06
Speaker
No. Yeah. I was like Simon Stagg. He was more interesting. And I've always liked Black Lightning and Katana. And that's really it. If I was going to do Outsiders, if I was going to write an Outsiders book, I would probably just keep Black Lightning and Katana and Batman and then throw in a bunch of other people. I mean, well, you know what? If you've got Batman, Black Lightning, and Katana, you really don't need anybody else. Yeah, that's a good point. To be honest, yeah.
00:17:36
Speaker
And so- But for some reason DC always has this tendency to wanna make black lightning, Batman's grown up sidekick. Yeah, yeah. Which I have a problem with. Yeah, I did see the, there is the new outsider's book. I got the first volume of that and that was okay. That was decent enough. Okay. But it wasn't anything like amazing, but it's entertaining enough.
00:18:06
Speaker
Okay. Anyway, WandaVision, that finale.
WandaVision Finale Insights
00:18:15
Speaker
First off, I loved how Paul Bettany trolled everybody, because he was saying in interviews and stuff that at the end of WandaVision, he gets to work with an actor he's always admired, and it was himself. It was himself, of course. Good for him. And it was...
00:18:35
Speaker
such a wonderful conflict between the two visions because it didn't end the way, because we already got Wanda, she's going around, she's throwing energy both back and forth from Agatha. But the vision, who is of course a more cerebral character, he resolved the conflict with the other vision through conversation and logic and reasoning, which I thought was flat out brilliant. Oh, it was such a vision thing to do.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah. It was so perfect for that character. And it's like, I love the interaction when he's like, have you ever heard of the ship of Theseus? And then White Vision's like, well, naturally. And then just like, I had to look it up. And also I require elaboration. Like it was just so, the way Paul Bettany played both those two different visions was just, I mean,
00:19:25
Speaker
You know what, he was never someone that I would have said would be like, and this just, as we said multiple times, but it comes to these movies and the MCU in general, like the casting is just so on point. Oh yeah, yeah. And so I'm not expecting a lot of ways. Cause I never would have thought Paul Bettany is the vision. He's never someone that would have jumped to my mind. Like my personal pick, like when I was like fan casting and stuff, I always thought Alexis Denizov would have been an amazing vision.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, somebody like that. Paul Bettany is like somebody I would never thought of, but like with so many other characters that we've seen, now I can't imagine anybody else. Yeah. You know, if they ever do vision again, you know, it's going to be a while before we get another actor, but it doesn't look like we're going to get that because now I was fairly certain that the vision was going to come back. I just didn't expect that this was the way he was going to come back.
00:20:20
Speaker
So now we do have the vision back in a way because apparently he's got all the memories. Right. That, you know, of the original vision. Well, it seems to me that, yeah, it seems to me it's going to be kind of like what they did in the comics because the white vision, he had had all the memories of the original vision, but he had no emotional connection to him because he didn't have Wonder Man's brain engrams. Exactly. Yeah. But
00:20:49
Speaker
In this, you know, now in the MTU, he doesn't have that. Anyway, the original vision didn't have, he had Jarvis. He had, you know, that was his template, personality. So now he, I guess this white vision, he has to find a new personality. Well, yeah, because it's like Banner said in Infinity War, like your interface, it's like a complex series of interfaces, right? You've got Tony, Ultron, Jarvis, me, and it's like all of those mixed together.
00:21:18
Speaker
Exactly. Plus the mind stone, like kind of linking it all together. So, and now he's got all those memories, but the personality is going to be something different. So I'm really curious to see where they're going to take this. Like I said, I knew we were going to get the vision back. I just didn't think we were going to get them back this way. Yeah. And, um, where they go from here, I have no idea, but,
00:21:47
Speaker
I don't care. WandaVision, I'm sold. WandaVision has sold me. Whatever they do from here on out. Because it was so masterfully put together. And it's a long journey that we took to finally see Wanda become the Scarlet Witch, but it was worth it. It was so worth it. And Elizabeth Olsen is just another one of those actors that never would have thought of her in a million years for Scarlet Witch.
00:22:17
Speaker
My gosh, and like I didn't have nothing against her in the other movies. It's just, she didn't really have a whole lot of room as a character that much. Like we got a little bit of flashes like in civil war and in infinity war, but there wasn't a whole lot of stuff, a lot of heavy lifting that she had to do. In this, like she's just an incredible actress. I mean, because when you think about it,
00:22:43
Speaker
She's, well, no, because there are some episodes that she's not in it much, but a lot of the heavy lifting of the series was on her back. Yes. And she stepped up to the plate and Paul Bettany as well. Yeah. They both stepped up to the plate and they said, again, this is the thing where they took two relatively minor characters that you would have never guessed would have been the linchpin the way they were in WandaVision. Yes.
00:23:13
Speaker
So I mean, I was just like, I mean, that finale was just, you know, and I've been hearing a lot of people saying, well, Wanda didn't suffer enough and she should be punished for what she did. Well, who's gonna punish her?
00:23:32
Speaker
But you know what I mean? I mean, she's got the freaking dark hole at the end. We see with the dark hole. And even Agatha says, well, you know what? You're more powerful than the Sorcerer Supreme. So let's face it. Who's going to punish her? Well, even that, I mean, the story is not necessarily over. Like this is just the start of something new, right? Exactly. Yeah. So we don't know what's. And this is something that annoys me with fan, with a lot of the fandom, is they
00:24:00
Speaker
They want it all to be answered right away, but you gotta finish, the story's not finished, right? This is just one chapter of the story. There's an old saying, the reason God invented time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
00:24:18
Speaker
That's what, see, a story takes time to tell. It doesn't all happen at one time. Exactly. So, yeah, we're watching the evolution of a character, of several characters, because we also saw the evolution of Monica Rambeau. Yes, yeah. Jimmy Woo. Darcy. Darcy Woo. Darcy really should have had some kind of pithy in line instead of, instead, well, she just left, you know.
00:24:46
Speaker
But we saw evolution of characters in here. Right. On the way to the next step. Monica Rambo. We saw the Skrull. Yes. You know, well, he wants to see you. She said, who? And the Skrull just, I said, oh, OK. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So it looks like we're going to be getting her, because we already knew that she was going to be in Captain Marvel 2. But now it looks like we're also going to be getting her in Secret Invasion.
00:25:09
Speaker
So, and it's gonna be awesome seeing Teona Paris interacting with Sam Jackson. I'm really looking forward to that. I mean, this is evolution. These characters, we've watched one story, now we're gonna see them go on to another one. Some of them we will see go on to another one. And we already know that we're gonna see, because that's practically being confirmed, that one is gonna be in Doctor Strange 2. Yes.
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah. But a lot of people are upset because they didn't get the X-Men, they didn't get Mephisto. And I guess the greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing everybody that he was going to be in WandaVision. Yeah. Oh, everybody swore it was going to be Mephisto. Oh my god, everybody was Mephisto at one point, right? Yeah, everybody. One point you thought was Mephisto.
00:26:07
Speaker
But don't worry about it. I thought it was going to be Mephisto, too. Yeah. But it's like every single character was Mephisto, right? The stork was Mephisto. The mailman was Mephisto. Ralph everybody was Mephisto. Also, I got to love Marvel's trolling with Evan Peters and making everybody think that they're going to be bringing in the first class X-Men and that they just turned into a boner joke in the end. Yeah. But no, so I actually like that. I said, well, good.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah, same here. I mean, there was a lot of people that was pissed off about that because they felt that Marvel was having a joke at their expense. And yeah, they were. It was a red... You know what? That was a classic red herring. Yeah, yeah. They dropped them in there saying, okay, well, the fans will all be following this. And in the meantime, we're gonna be over here doing this. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:01
Speaker
I mean, that's a full epic classic mix classic misdirection. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just, yeah, it's like everything about this show was, I don't think I would change one thing about this show. It's just not, no, not perfectly. And I'm just waiting, uh, until I have like a day, cause I just want to take a date and I want to watch the whole thing again. All in one.
00:27:28
Speaker
you know, clip. Yeah. Just to savor, you know, the performances. Catherine Hahn, Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany. I have a lot of credit for Deborah Jo Rupp's agent who managed to get her credited in every episode.
00:27:57
Speaker
Even the one she didn't appear in, Debra Jo Rupp had a credit. She's got a fantastic agent. So I give her agent credit. I mean, everybody, Jimmy Woo. I mean, it was just, it was, it was,
00:28:14
Speaker
amazing television, it really was, in terms of concept and execution. You know, one thing that kind of surprised me though, is that, and I kind of felt the same thing, they keep having characters that are gyrick-like in the MCU, but who weren't gyrick. Like you had
00:28:34
Speaker
uh, ever K Ross in civil war was very much playing like the, the Henry Peter Geirich role. And then in this, you had Hayward, who's very much like Geirich, but they're just not putting, they have all these Geirich like characters, but they're not calling them Geirich. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, uh, you know, standards. Yeah. Cause this guy, and apparently they're going to keep him around, which I, you know, I mean, I don't know what capacity, but, uh,
00:29:04
Speaker
I would like to know how he got, how he got a hold of the vision's body. Yeah. Well, he, cause they, there was a, there was a scene that they had planned at the end of end game that would have shown a vision's body in the morgue at the Avengers compound. So I guess after end game, like when they came in to help clean up and everything, I guess they probably confiscated the body. Because the vision,
00:29:34
Speaker
as we see in Age of Ultron. Excuse me. Which I completely forgot. He was built with stolen vibranium. Yes, yeah. Which belongs to Wakanda. But he was built also with Stark tech. So doesn't that make him legally Tony Stark owns him?
00:30:00
Speaker
I don't know because, well, the whole thing about like, and because they reimagined sword in this series, because in the comics, it's a space agency, right? They're supposed to, it's sentient world observation and research and whatever, right? But in this one, it's sentient weapon observation. So they changed that and they're focusing more on like, so I'm guessing that because vision is this artificial life form and
00:30:30
Speaker
is like this is basically a weapon like that gives sword jurisdiction over it under the Sokovio chords or something along those lines is I guess kind of how it works out. Well yeah I figured that that's that's how they got a hold of it because they argued that since okay my thing is that they said okay well uh
00:30:53
Speaker
Vibranium has been weaponized before. So that classifies the vision as a weapon. Yes. So we got them. So that's how they got a hold of them. Yeah. So that's probably how it worked out. But anyway, that's as good a transition as we're going to get into Age of Ultron, which we watched for this week.
Avengers: Age of Ultron Analysis
00:31:13
Speaker
Yep. And like for the life of me, I could not understand why this movie was so hated when it came out.
00:31:22
Speaker
I mean, I came back from the theater and I'm like, that was awesome. I love that. You know, okay. The movie starts out with the Avengers fighting the hordes of Hydra and Baron Strucker. You don't get more Avengers than that. You know, that's like how, that's how like an Avengers annual, you open it up and that's what it starts with. Yeah. The Avengers fighting Hydra and Baron Strucker. So I mean,
00:31:53
Speaker
I don't know. To me, that was the perfect beginner right there. The Avengers in the action. Well, it's something you've always said when you talk about, it was like a James Bond movies, like the cold open of a James Bond movie. And, you know, I mean,
00:32:13
Speaker
And also because, okay, now because, okay, we had the first movie where all characters got introduced and, you know, we got all, okay.
00:32:24
Speaker
So we don't need that now. So now we can just get right into the story. This movie gets into the story within the first 10 minutes of the movie with that whole assault on Hydra and Baron Strucker. It gets into the story. One of the things I also like about it, what it does, and this is also what the James Bond movies help accomplish, is it shows you that
00:32:44
Speaker
These are, there are other missions the Avengers have done, you just don't see them. It has that implication there. Whereas like if you look at something like the X-Men movies, it kind of feels like the X-Men only have their missions that appear in the movies. Yeah, they just sit around the mansion most of the time. Yeah, yeah. So I did like that you get this sense that the Avengers haven't just been sitting around the past few years, they have been doing other missions together.
00:33:11
Speaker
Well, there's that wonderful scene during the assault where Bear struck and he's walking around and he's giving orders and everything like that. And one of his grunts said, yeah, but Baron, you know, these are the Avengers. And he says, yeah, well, call up the troops and do this and recalibrate the laser cannon. And the guy said, yes, but Baron. It's the Avengers. I love that. Don't you get it? It's the Avengers.
00:33:34
Speaker
So apparently, the Avengers have a reputation. You know, because this guy's shitting in his pants, frankly. Barret struck and just walk around with his monocle talking shit. And this guy's like, oh, Barret. And he's pretty regularly called by, he's like, Barret, it's the Avengers. Yeah, but recalibrate this and do this. You know, we just evacuate the base, please. And, you know. If I've got one disappointment, it's that,
00:34:04
Speaker
this is the only time Baron Strucker is so underused, right? Like, oh yeah. Thomas Creshman is, he's great. And I would have loved to see more of him playing Baron Zemo, especially because in, in Winter Soldier, right? And I know eventually we got the story in Captain Marvel about how Fury lost his eye, but in Winter Soldier, Fury has that one line to Cap where he says, you know, last time I trusted somebody, I lost an eye.
00:34:30
Speaker
And you had, so like, and then you had Baron Strucker in this, like my head can at the time was that, Strucker was that friend. That's who, yeah, exactly. And that's how I would have done it. Yeah. That's the same thing I thought too, that it was Strucker. So I felt that was kind of a missed opportunity. Because mainly because he's also got that thing with the monocle. Right. Which is like a fake eye. So I thought that was a nice little parallel to, you know, like the eye patch. Yes.
00:35:01
Speaker
put the little one down over in the, she finally fell asleep. But yeah, I loved pretty much everything about this movie. Like the whole Thor vision quest thing is a little bit kind of.
00:35:15
Speaker
but other than that, I love this movie. I think... You know what? Okay. I watched this movie today and you know what I was really surprised at? There is a lot in this movie. There is, yeah. This movie is packed with a whole bunch of... I mean, we're talking about... You know what? I forgot Claude was in this movie.
00:35:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, this is when he was introduced. I completely forgot he was in this movie, because that's how Ultron gets to vibrate him. Because Claus got a whole shitload of it that he stole from, I mean, you know, Wakanda. Yeah.
00:35:51
Speaker
What's his name? Stella Starsguard. He shows up in the cameo. Peggy Carter shows up in the cameo. Idris Elba. Idris Elba is high. You got a ton of cameos in this one. And I'm looking, I said, oh my God. Yeah. It was a whole bunch of people that I had forgotten was in this movie, as well as a whole lot of it. I mean, there's a lot of story in this movie. Yes. Which I had completely forgotten about.
00:36:18
Speaker
Which I get for another reason why I love the movie so much. Because, you know, this is a movie that I walked out of it. I felt like I got more than my money's worth. Same here, yeah. In terms of, in terms of sheer story and spectacle, yeah, I got my money's worth. Yeah. I think, well, did you catch, speaking of, you know, so much being in this, did you catch the Angel reference in it? Who? Angel, to the TV show. No.
00:36:46
Speaker
So when Thor is having that, you know, when he has that hallucination scene, when he sees Heimdall, you see there's this one shot where they have these like three like creatures and it's a wolf, a ram, and a heart. Okay. You know, Wolfram and heart. Oh, Wolfram and heart. Okay, I got you. No, I didn't catch that. Yeah. I watched this movie. And I do want to watch this movie again, simply because I'm sitting there, I'm saying, damn,
00:37:16
Speaker
but which goes to show you how long it's been since I've seen this movie. Well, speaking of cameos too, I mean, we get Sam and Rhodey in this too. Yeah. Like we get that party scene. And I do like the, and because that's the, everyone complained about, well, where's Rhodey in the first Avengers movie. And so I did like, they brought him in here and they kind of show, well, you know, Rhodey's doing his own thing. He's got his own missions that he's flying.
00:37:39
Speaker
Well, that's what he's talking about, because they got the running gag where he's telling the joke to the Avengers, and they just don't find it funny. But then he goes and tells it to regular people, and they're cracking up all over the place. Yeah, I did love that when Thor's like, wait, that's the whole story? He's like, yeah, it's a war machine story. And Thor's like, oh, well, then yeah, it's OK then. It's good.
00:37:56
Speaker
But see, okay, context. You're talking to a guy who's been kicking force giants in the ass since he was a teenager. So, you know, yeah, I mean, this isn't exactly gonna press through. You gotta talk about...
00:38:10
Speaker
fighting fire demons, and then he'll say, oh, really? You did that, you know? Otherwise, nah. I did like that. He's like, why do I even talk to you guys? Yeah, why do I even talk to you? But it was nice to see him. Matter of fact, I loved that whole party scene. Yes, it was great. But I love scenes. I always love scenes. And when I was writing fan fiction, those were my favorite scenes to write. Where's your superhero just hanging out? Yeah, same here. Just sitting around, you know, just bullshit. Yeah, and also, I like that, you know, Sam Wilson, you got him,
00:38:41
Speaker
And he says, like, you know, it's like, oh, if it was a firefight and then Steve's like, well, next time I'll call you up and say, I'm like, wait, wait, hold on, hold on. No, no, no. I was just trying to sound tough. Yeah. And he, and he also makes reference to the fact he's off doing his own thing. Right. He says, you know, I'm, I'm looking for a Bucky basically.
00:38:56
Speaker
Right. Which, okay, which again, is another thing that I like about this movie is that it implies that all these other characters are going on doing their own thing. They, you know, they just haven't been sitting around waiting for the Avengers to show up and call these characters off doing their own thing. Yeah, yeah. And, and you know, one of my
00:39:18
Speaker
One of my favorite things about this movie is Hawkeye, because I think in this movie, they really kind of show that Hawkeye is kind of the glue for that keeps the Avengers together. Right. And that also comes up again in Civil War, right? When he says, you know, like, you know, I retired for five minutes and all goes to hell. Yeah, yeah. I love to see where he are.
00:39:38
Speaker
Because he's the one that stops the Scarlet Witch. When she's put the hex on everybody, he just turns around, takes the arrow, poof, everybody said, no, I did that mine. I ain't doing that again. Because he sees it coming. Again, Hawkeye is the guy who sees things coming before anybody else. He sees everything, right? That's the whole thing. And I know a lot of people didn't like the farmhouse scene. They said it felt too long. I thought the farmhouse scene was great character work, especially for Hawkeye. Because there's that scene when him and
00:40:09
Speaker
I can't remember, Laura is his wife's name, I think, played by Linda Carbonelli. And she says to them, I see these guys and these gods. And he says, what, you think they don't need me? And she's like, no, I think they do. And that's even scarier. Yeah. Well, see, that's the whole thing that I have always said about Hawkeye with people. Well, Hawkeye, well, he's just a guy who shoots arrows.
00:40:37
Speaker
I said, no, you don't get it. This is a guy who through his own skill and training and talent and force of will has made himself skillful and competent enough to be able to fight besides super soldiers, men with, you know, transistorized armor and gods, and they respect him for it. Yes.
00:41:00
Speaker
That's the whole thing, the Hawkeye. He's the one true human in the middle of all these other, you know, could you, I mean, cause Tony Stark is like so freaking out there that, you know, he's like operating on his own plane. Captain America, he's a super soldier and he's got like this higher moral thing. And Thor's an Asgardian, you know, he's, again, it's another totally different level. But then at the core of it, you've got human characters like the Black Widow and Hawkeye.
00:41:31
Speaker
More so Hawkeye, because Black Widow has had like surgical enhancements and all that kind of stuff. And she was raised up in this spy environment. But Hawkeye is, he grounds the Avengers. It's the human perspective, which is why I took her back to the farm.
00:41:46
Speaker
Yes, yeah. You know, what's the next thing that we see? Which is like the most basic thing that you can do with a farm. Well, Captain America and Tony start to chop and wood. I do love that scene. Tony says, don't steal from my pile. And he captures like 10 times as big as his. Yeah. I mean, seriously, dude? We can obviously see you don't spend a lot of time chopping wood. But again, it's a great scene in that
00:42:15
Speaker
we get to see once again Steve Rogers and Tony Stark talk about their differences. Yes. And as I said before, I probably mentioned this before, but another reason why I love this movie is that it's another, let's say we were talking about before, we talk about character development. Mm-hmm.
00:42:41
Speaker
Tony's PTSD going to a new level. Yes. Cause that's what this, that's what this movie is about. Cause Tony's a matter of fact, Tony fucks up one time and then he does, Bruce Banner even said, wait a minute, you just did this and it didn't work. And now you want to do it again with the, you know, it's like the cat never stops. Well, that was one thing that, you know, watching this again kind of bugged me is that I don't really,
00:43:10
Speaker
I understand why Tony wants, I don't think Tony does a really good job of, the movie doesn't do a good job of convincing us that Tony has sold Bruce on this, right? So why Bruce agrees to put Jarvis in the vision, that's something that's still just kind of like, all right, that seemed a little bit too easy, right?
00:43:29
Speaker
He says, hey, look, we're mad scientists. So, and then Tony, oh, okay. Well, you put it like that, then I'll do it. But they are. They are, but I just, but I mean, from the character standpoint, I don't really understand why that convinces Bruce to go along with it. Like if anything, I think that should make Bruce think, you know, maybe we shouldn't be mad scientists. Bruce is gonna go along with it. I never had any doubt he was gonna go along with it because
00:43:55
Speaker
Tony Stark is just that type of personality that he just overwhelms you. And he suckers you into buying his bullshit, which is basically what Tony Stark is very good at. He's very good at making you buy his bullshit. Yeah, although that was just one thing.
00:44:19
Speaker
coming along with that, I just wasn't sold on that. That was my thing. And that might just be me, but I just felt like that was one thing that jumped out to me this time. Wait a minute.
00:44:34
Speaker
You just saw that Ultron just hijacked your plan to put a shield around the world. So now you just turn around, well, okay, what we know we're gonna do, we're gonna stick this AI into this body that Ultron created. But again, as I said before, that's Tony Stark. Tony Stark's major flaw is that he thinks he can solve everything through technology.
00:45:02
Speaker
At his core, Tony Stark has no faith in humanity. He really doesn't. No, no. And you know what? There are two things, and just don't have another tangent, something that just came up to me, is there are two things I expected in this movie that we didn't see happen. So the first is the whole, because before this movie came out,
00:45:22
Speaker
the descriptions of it said that Ultron was like this old, that Tony dusted off this old peacekeeping proposal called the Ultron program. And they make kind of make reference to that when, because when Bruce says this, when Tony says this could be the key to creating Ultron, Bruce says, I thought Ultron was just a fantasy, right? So you get this sense that this existed as a concept.
00:45:52
Speaker
for a while. So my theory is, because we knew Ant-Man was coming right after this anyway. So my theory going into this was that concept would have been drafted by Hank Pym. So I thought we would have gotten some reference to that, that Hank Pym had been involved in the drafting of this concept, but we never get any mention of that. Because as everybody knows, Hank Pym in the comics created Ultron. You're right.
00:46:20
Speaker
Here's the confusion, because in this one, because we see the Ultron body, it struck his castle. So what, so, okay. All right, nevermind, I got it. Nevermind, I just reconciled it in my own mind. Go ahead. Yeah, my theories, I always thought those are like, you know, destroyed iron legionaries that they found.
00:46:46
Speaker
And like, or they, you know, parts of, because, you know, Tony's armors always getting blown to shit. So he's got like pieces of it scattered everywhere, especially after, you know, New York. So I always thought that it was just, they'd just been collecting different parts of the, and that also kind of goes into the whole, because they got this whole, the Iron Legion going around and, you know, helping up with, you know, crowd control and all that kind of stuff.
00:47:16
Speaker
So my theory was, and this kind of shows that the vendors have been active in all this time since the first movie, was that, and, you know, Stroker's been collecting these scattered pieces of the Iron Legion that had been destroyed over the past few years. Which I expect that we'll probably see an amplification of because we're getting armor wars. Right.
00:47:38
Speaker
Yeah. With, you know, Rhodey apparently was going to be going around and, you know, finding people that are using Tony Stark's tech for rogue purposes. Yes. Yeah. So that'll be, that'll be really interesting to see. I wonder if we'll get some, some of the classic Iron Man villains then in that, you know? Yeah. Cause we, you know, we only had like, we only had, you know, Whiplash really as the, like the only classic iron. Listen, all I want to see is Titanium Man and the Unicorn.
00:48:07
Speaker
Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, we might see him. Yeah. That's another possibility. So there's a, there are a lot of different characters they could, they could pull from. I always loved Titanium Man. Oh yeah. Yeah. And the Unicorn. Don't ask me why Unicorn was goofy as hell, but that's probably why I loved him. Cause I love goofy characters. He was the guy that had the power. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. I love, I love the Unicorn. Yeah. So yeah, that'll be cool. I hope he gets some of those characters in Armor Wars.
00:48:38
Speaker
What was I gonna talk about? The other thing that I thought that would have come up in this is because in the comic books, the vision was Ultron used the Android human torches body as the basis for creating the vision, right?
00:48:56
Speaker
And we saw in First Avenger, we saw the android human torch in that at the World's Fair scene. Only time we've ever seen it. Only time we've ever seen them, yeah. Which really pisses me off because I love the original human torch. Well, that's because that's why I was hoping that maybe they were going to say that they had taken that body and that was used the basis for vision in this movie, which
00:49:19
Speaker
that's how i would have done it instead of just making it complete and like maybe they use the vibranium and bond it to this to this base this body that already existed right that's that's what i would have done anyway
00:49:32
Speaker
Because that's what they did, because in the comic books, for the longest time, that was the premise, that Ultron had used the body of the original torch and repurposed it. Well, yeah. And I read about this, and I've been reading Marvel Comics, The Untold Story. And I'm only a little bit into it. Oh, that's fantastic. Oh, it's great. I'm loving it. But one of the things they mentioned is that Roy Thomas,
00:49:57
Speaker
he kind of learned the game early on that when you create something from Marvel, it's going to be Marvel's. Like you're not going to have any. So what he did instead was he took a lot of golden age characters and repurposed them. Yeah. Well, yeah. Instead of creating your own characters, you know, that Marvel owns. Right. So he took like the Android human torch and kind of gave it the concept of the golden age vision and kind of merged those two concepts together to create the modern day vision.
00:50:27
Speaker
And that's a book.
00:50:29
Speaker
I always recommend to people, especially when I get into people with this bullshit argument when, you know, because now it's the popular thing, you know, to turn Stan Lee into like this demon that apparently he did nothing but go around stealing everybody's characters and concepts and claims and such was not the case. And I really get pissed off by people, you know, that like have made it their mission in life to take a piss on his, you know, memory.
00:50:58
Speaker
you know, when, um, if you read the book, Marvel would be untold story. So a lot, it's told a lot of interviews with people who were actually there at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And was saying, listen, you know what? Yeah. And you know what? People seem to have a hard time with this concept. Yeah, it sucked, but that's how it was.
00:51:17
Speaker
You know, yeah, you signed your name on the back of a check. And once you did, Marvel owned your shit. Yeah. End of story. I mean, that's, if you didn't like it, you went to work for somebody else. That's what, but you know what? Other common companies were doing the same thing too. Exactly. This was a standard practice across the industry. It still is pretty much. I mean, it's a practice that remains work for higher contracts are still very much the norm. Yeah. But people want to make out, Oh yeah.
00:51:46
Speaker
Stanley stole everything from him. No, he didn't. He didn't steal everything. It's not like he sat in his basement plotting how to rob everything from Jack Kirby and John Romita. And you know, Gil Kane, all the rest of these guys. No, such was not the case. Folks, if you haven't read it yet, go get there, but marvel the untold story. Yeah, it's very good.
00:52:10
Speaker
use our use our audible code supercinemapod and you can get the audiobook as a part of a free trial. So audibletrial.com use the promo code supercinemapod you get a free trial and you can download the untold story for free. What he said.
00:52:31
Speaker
So anyway, shameless plug out of the way. And one thing about that that always annoyed me is that there's this whole idea that you have to have a very good guy, you have to have a very bad guy in these stories. I mean, that's not how it works. These stories are a lot more, it's not always so black and white. It's a lot more gray.
00:52:58
Speaker
When people think of Stan Lee, they think of him as being the, you know, they think of him as being like, you know, the God of Marvel that he has control over the whole company when really it wasn't the case. Like he was just an employee like anyone else. So it's like getting met at your manager at McDonald's because you're not, you're not making $15 an hour. Well, the manager doesn't really, can't really control any of that. Stan Lee.
00:53:26
Speaker
One thing that you cannot take away from Stanley. Stanley is the guy that made comic books cool. He made comic books acceptable to the mainstream. Whereas before they had just been looked down as stuff like for kids stuff. He made comic books literate. I was reading, I remember as a kid, reading Marvel comic books.
00:53:54
Speaker
And I will be very honest here, folks. I credit Marvel comic books for me having a very large vocabulary at a young age. When I was in sixth grade, I was reading in college.
00:54:04
Speaker
grade level. I was reading 12th grade level. Because I would read Marvel comics, and Stanley was sticking these long ass words, and I would go look them up. And then I would use them when I was writing papers and book reports and stuff like that. And the teachers would say, where did you get that word from? Oh, I read it in a comic book. And they thought I was bullshitting. They thought I was being smart. They said, no, I read it in a comic book.
00:54:29
Speaker
So he made comic books cool, he made comic books literate. He turned them into the art form. Well, not single-handedly, but he had a significant part in turning him into the art form that we now know them as. Well, yeah, I mean, because famously, the whole reason he created the Fantastic Four was because he was just out of fucks to get. He was going to quit the industry altogether.
00:54:56
Speaker
And so it was all credit to his wife. She's like, you know what, if you're gonna quit, then just fuck it, write the way you wanna write it. Yeah, because as I'm sure everybody listening in the sound of our voices know, Stan Lee was just the name he used for, he saved his real name, because he thought he was gonna write the great American novel. Right. But- And it never did, then he eventually legally changed his name to Stan Lee. But I mean,
00:55:26
Speaker
Now we know him as the father of the Marvel universe, which ain't bad. So I mean, listen, you know what? Everybody's got to make their choices about how they feel about this sort of stuff.
00:55:46
Speaker
All I know is that the man enriched my life. He made the quality of my life better. So me, yeah, okay. Maybe he did some underhanded things. Maybe he didn't. You know what? I wasn't in the room when the shit happened. I don't know what happened. The only ones who know what happened were the people in the room when it happened. So, hey. And there have been so many conflicting stories that have come out over the years about it. So it's impossible to say with 100% certainty.
00:56:16
Speaker
Yeah. Because there's so many conflicting accounts. Yeah, because everybody remembers everything differently. Yeah. Anyway, back to this movie. Another thing that I really loved in this was James Spader as Ultron. I mean, that is just perfect casting right there. Again, we repeat ourselves with this ad infinitum and we will keep on repeating ourselves, the casting.
00:56:44
Speaker
Okay, you think of a more perfect voice for a homicidal robot that wants to destroy the world and kill the Avengers than James Spader. Well, especially because this Ultron was created by Tony Stark. So it's very much like a twisted version of Tony's personality. And James Spader is the perfect voice for like a twisted version of Robert Downey Jr. Yeah, exactly. Cause they've got that same kind of snarkiness in their voice, you know, when they talk. Cause to me, the only one that could probably out snark
00:57:14
Speaker
Robert Downey Jr. is James Spader. Yes. Yeah. You know, without even half trying. And you can tell that he did his own motion capture in this because like just like his movement, the way Ultron moves, it's so James Spader like little head tilt and all that like I kept getting flashbacks to the blacklist watching that. And I love how
00:57:35
Speaker
Ultron talks, doesn't talk like a robot. He talks like a person. Yes. Because he doesn't see himself as a person, but he does think of himself as a more evolved being. Yes. In a way. So it's not like he considers himself like, I don't even think he considers himself to be a machine, really. I really don't think he does. I mean, you go back to the comics, particularly music's run, when him and George Perez did their Ultron Unlimited story, which
00:58:05
Speaker
you know, probably the best Ultron story that's ever been written. And he turned it, he basically turned Ultron into, you know, the prodigal son. He's, you know, it's very much, he feels scorned by his family and all that kind of stuff because, and so it's this like obsession with, and you get a lot of that in James Spader's Ultron with like his obsession with Tony Stark. Yeah. Well, there's even,
00:58:31
Speaker
a part in this movie where they said, well, Ultron can't tell the difference between saving humanity and destroying it. And somebody says, okay, who does that remind you of? And then they say, oh, it told me. Yeah, yeah, the good point. One is the one who says that, yeah.
00:58:47
Speaker
Huh? Wanda's the one who says that. Wanda, yeah. She said that. She said, who does that remind you of? That they can't tell. And it's the truth. Tony Stark can't tell the difference anymore, you know, because his whole thing is making humanity safe at any cost. By building bigger and better weapons. Well, that's super villain 101. Yeah, yeah. I mean, really it is, you know. Oh, well,
00:59:11
Speaker
Nobody knows what's better for humanity than me. I'm the one that knows what's best for humanity. And he keeps going back to this time and time again, right? Like he creates Ultron. And then he tries to fix things by doing the Sokovia Accords, and he ends up breaking the Avengers apart right before an alien invasion comes.
00:59:34
Speaker
And you know what? Yeah, okay, you mean well, but dude, you need to just sit down and, you know, go take some deep therapy for a couple of years and just chill for a while, you know? Oh my God, it's hilarious. It's funny, but yeah, but it's a...
00:59:56
Speaker
It's a revelatory moment when Wanda says that, when she says, because I'm watching and she's like, oh shit, you know, she's 100% right when she said, well, who does that sound like? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's, I really hope that at some point we get to see James Spader come back as Ultron because I, I don't know where the criticism comes from. I thought he was perfect in this movie. I listen, I,
01:00:24
Speaker
Again, I don't know why because apparently all this is like considered to be the redheaded stepchild of the Avengers series. Yeah, I really don't know why I have no idea why. I mean, it's, you know, granted, it's not as good as the other three, but it's by no means bad. Okay, well,
01:00:45
Speaker
Okay, well, nothing is as good, of course. One, two punches we got with Infinity War and Endgame. But that's on another level. Exactly, yeah. So it's hard to compare that. Exactly. Exactly. It shouldn't even be compared to that. This is really just like a standalone Avengers.
01:01:06
Speaker
adventure it really is you know yeah because the first one we get like I said we get everybody like uh introduced and we get you know and they got to think with Loki and whatnot it's the origin story right this is Avengers annual this is an Avengers annual you know Age of Ultron
01:01:24
Speaker
Yeah, and although there is one big missed opportunity, I think. So first, have you read the Ultron Unlimited story that music and Perez did? Probably, but that was years ago. Okay, so there's this one scene where- I wouldn't remember, I'm old. There's this one, it's well worth tracking down and rereading, because the music Perez run in general was just amazing. That was my introduction to the Avengers.
01:01:49
Speaker
And that led me into reading the classic Avengers stuff after. Yeah. I mean, he got him. He got the Avengers. You know, it was like, it was like an amazing cover band doing the greatest hits album. That's what the music press run was. Right. And it was very much like hitting those, revisiting those like classic ideas and those classic stories and just like reintroducing them to a new generation. And like music does
01:02:19
Speaker
Music and Mark Wade probably do that better than anyone else in the industry. Yeah, Mark Wade. And so his Ultron Unlimited story, it has this amazing scene where the Avengers have been beaten down and everything and Ultron seems like on the verge of victory and all of a sudden they burst through the wall.
01:02:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah, they're all they're all like battle damage and everything. And you got Thor standing front and center. And he's just like very calm. He's like Ultron. We would have words with thee. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. And that was the one thing I wanted that moment in this movie. We had a great moment in this movie that I am kind of convinced
01:03:02
Speaker
And people call me crazy, but I think it's a homage to that last gunfight in San Pequipas, the Wild Bunch. Oh, okay. The Avengers during the church and Ultron's drones is all coming out of a rush and we had that 360 pan around with all the Avengers fighting and everything like that. I mean, that's the closest that you're gonna get to see a comic book panel in live action. Yes.
01:03:30
Speaker
where they just go around. And I said, this reminds me of something. I said, oh, the Wild Bunch. You know? Oh, I gotta watch that movie again. I haven't seen it in so long. I've seen it. I just haven't seen it in a while. Oh, I watch it at least once a year. Yeah, it's a great movie. That was my, you know how old I am?
01:03:50
Speaker
This will give you a hint of how old I am. You saw that with, that was the first movie you saw with your dad, right? In the theater. I am old enough that I saw that during its original theatrical run. That was my first, that was my first growing up movie. Oh, that was, yeah. I love it to this day. And I watch it at least, at least two or three times a year. You wanna feel even older? My first grown up movie was Blade.
01:04:20
Speaker
And I wasn't even grown up. I was, it was before I entered high school because they didn't card at the theater where I saw that. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, when I was a kid, I would see already the movies. They didn't, they didn't stop you and everything like that. You paid your money. You went on it and they said, yeah, kid, just sit in the back. In fact, when I went to see, I wanted to see Blair Witch in the theater. And, and I was like,
01:04:42
Speaker
I was under 18, I know that. And I went to the theater and asked for a ticket to Blair Witch. And the guy's like, can I see some ID? I'm like, are you serious? I see a ton of R-rated movies. Nobody's ever asked me for an ID. He's like, yeah, well, we're asking now. So. Oh, okay. And so yeah, I guess. That never happened to me. No, it never happened to me until Blair Witch. Before Blair Witch, like I had been able to see R-rated movies, no problem. But you know what, the weird thing is, but I actually,
01:05:09
Speaker
Well, I wish I wanted to find that guy and thank him because not wasting my money on Blair Witch was a good move. Yeah, yeah. Blair Witch, that's a movie. That's a triumph of marketing, internet marketing. Oh, God, yeah. Because I...
01:05:32
Speaker
I saw that movie and I just said, really? This is what's supposed to be so, okay. Matter of fact, I liked the sequel better. Yeah, I did too. You know, Book of Shadows? Yes. Yeah. I thought that was a bit, you know what? Maybe because it was a movie. Exactly. It didn't have any pretensions about being, about something. Yeah. There's a much better movie. It's called The Last Broadcast. If you've never seen it,
01:06:02
Speaker
but it's kind of like, but it kind of got lost. Cause it came out like at around the time of Blair Witch and it got unfairly tagged as being a ripoff. And actually it's the better movie.
01:06:15
Speaker
Okay so kind of like a stir of echoes six cents kind of situation. It's the exact same thing. I tell people that all the time. I said go see stir of echoes. Yeah. I said that's a that's another movie that also got unfairly tagged as being a ripoff of the sixth sense when actually it's the better movie. Yeah sixth sense is just once you know the twist there's no reason to rewatch the sixth sense again.
01:06:39
Speaker
Okay, here's the thing. People told me they said they couldn't figure out the twist. I said, did you never see the Twilight Zone when you were growing up? Well, granted, I was in high school at the time, but I didn't see the twist coming either. I guess the twist when he was in the restaurant with his wife. Oh, okay. Yeah, I said, oh, he's dead. And remember, she's sitting there and she's not looking at him. Right, right, right. I said, oh, she's dead. Okay. I mean, I didn't say that live in the theater. Right.
01:07:07
Speaker
you know, in my head. But Patricia knew, she said, okay, when did you figure out he was dead? I told her, she said, oh, okay. But anyway, back to the- Not that it's a bad movie. And people always say that. Actually, it's a pretty good movie, but it's just that it's no more than an extended episode of The Twilight Zone. That's all it is. M. Night Shyamalan, Signs is a much better movie. Signs is a better movie, yeah. Yeah, Signs is a better movie. Even The Village.
01:07:36
Speaker
Oh, I don't think I'd go that far. I hated the village. Even the villages. You know what? I hated the village the first time I saw it, then I went back and watched it. And I think what it was was that I liked it better the second time because there was so many people in it that since then had went on to better roles. And I was able to enjoy the, because again, when they had the shed,
01:08:01
Speaker
that nobody could go into. And Patricia said to me, she said, well, what do you think is in that shed? I said, oh, well, that's where the village elders go to watch football on Sunday. I said, that's where they got their hookup at. Because they know about the outside world. Yeah, I guess that twist coming right away. Yeah, I said, yeah, they got refrigerated with the beer in there. They got the weed in there. They got the satellite hookup. That's where they go Sunday to watch football games.
01:08:26
Speaker
But anyway, back to Age of Ultron. So the thing about, there are two big missed opportunities in Whedon's Avengers films. The first one is Cap not saying Avengers Assemble in the first one, which fair enough, we made up for that epically in Endgame, but it still was something of a missed opportunity in the first Avengers movie, I think.
01:08:48
Speaker
Second is Thor not delivering that classic line from Ultron limited and they had the perfect opportunity right when they're in the church and all Ultron and Ultron shows up and then and Thor says is that the best you can do right at that point he should have just said he's like Ultron.
01:09:07
Speaker
Yeah. We would have words or something like that. But you know, some actually is kind of a pedestrian thing for Thor to say. Yeah. It really is. You know, it's a pedestrian thing. You know, like you said, at that moment, we want the grandeur. Right. So and have Thor say, hey, we would have words with the other. Oh, you know what it's about. But let me ask you something about something that I think is quite controversial. Do you think they should have killed off Quicksilver? OK.
01:09:37
Speaker
I go back, because after seeing WandaVision, it's... Okay, see, I'm conflicted on this because I hated that they killed Quicksilver at first, right? Because I thought Aaron Taylor Johnson was perfect. He was fantastic. Like, you know what? Fuck Evan Peters. I love Evan Peters, but he was not Quicksilver. He was Impulse. He was Impulse, exactly, yeah. This guy was Quicksilver. This guy was Quicksilver.
01:10:04
Speaker
100%, this is Quicksilver come to life right out of the comic books. He's got the attitude. He's got the obsession with protecting Wanda. He's got the whole thing about the Pietro Maximoff syndrome that Peter David famously did in X Factor where, because he moves it and thinks at super speed that the rest of the world moves at a crawl for him. So he's always annoyed with the rest of the world because everybody moves too slow for him. And ATJ does a perfect job of conveying that.
01:10:34
Speaker
And know something else, I don't know if he did this on purpose. I would like to think that he's a smart enough actor that he did this on purpose. But if you look at his body, you see he's got kind of like a big chest, which I think is because to accommodate larger lungs, but his legs are, you know, it's kind of like, they're not muscular legs though, but
01:11:04
Speaker
I don't know his body just looks like it's made for running yeah to me, I look at his body with Evan Peters his body well he's just a skinny teenager. yeah but I look at this guy and he looks like he's got a body that's made for running. He looks like yeah he's got a runners bill definitely. yeah yeah yeah I guess that's what I'm trying to say yeah. yeah he definitely does and but like.
01:11:27
Speaker
And all his lines in this movie are perfect. I love that scene when they're trying to evacuate Sokovia and he runs in the police station and nobody listens to him and he runs back in with a machine gun and then he throws the guys like, move, get off your asses. That is such a Quicksilver thing to do. He doesn't have time for a lot of bullshit. Yeah, yeah.
01:11:51
Speaker
And I also love when him and Wanda are talking in the church and you know, Wanda's like giving him orders and he says like, hey, you know, I'm 12 minutes older than you. Yeah. I mean, okay. If we didn't have him get killed, we wouldn't have the trauma that leads Wanda to WandaVision. Exactly. So since I'm not prepared to lose WandaVision, Quicksilver has got to die. However,
01:12:22
Speaker
I can think of few character deaths I've seen in superhero movies that I regret more than Quicksilver. Let me just put that way. Absolutely, yeah. Cause there was, I would have so loved to see more movies with him, especially with her and the vision. Cause like there was a whole thing in the comic books was Quicksilver's rivalry with the vision. Right.
Wanda's Character Arc and Future Speculations
01:12:43
Speaker
And like the whole, the conflict he and Wanda had over him, like being like, you know, this is not even a real person you're in love with. And just like that whole,
01:12:51
Speaker
watching, especially seeing like how great of an actress Elizabeth Olsen was in WandaVision and seeing, you know, Aaron Taylor-Johnson and other stuff and knowing how good of an actor he is and knowing how good of an actor Paul Bettany is, like watching the three of them interact in that way would have been amazing. And I'm still holding out hope that in some way we can get Aaron Taylor-Johnson to come back as quickly. Like, cause there's, you know, cause we talked about like,
01:13:19
Speaker
When we talk about Black Panther, we talked about Will Killmonger. It would be great to see him come back, but I think Quicksilver is a death that you could easily undo without undoing everything that happened in WandaVision. Well, you had the scene in WandaVision where she's having the tea, but her astral form is reading the dark hole. Yes. And we hear her kids' voices.
01:13:50
Speaker
Which says to me that one is looking for a way to bring her kids back. Yes. So maybe she's also thinking there's a way to bring her brother. If she can bring her kids back, maybe she can bring her brother back. Right. So which, and we know we're going to get young Avengers, right? We know that's going to happen. And her, her kids in the comic books, they're wicking and speed and the young Avengers. Right. That's right. That's right. My daughter just chiming in. So I'm thinking.
01:14:19
Speaker
And especially since again, we go back to the subtitle of Dr. Strange to the multiverse of madness. Right. And we know one is going to be in that playing a big role. So maybe she's messing with the multiverse and trying to find her kids and trying to find
01:14:36
Speaker
maybe Pietro, like that would be, that's a definite possibility. So yeah, I'm really curious to see what they'll do. I've learned by now not to expect too much from theories because you know what, Marvel's going to do what they're going to do and I'm going to love it no matter what anyway. So it doesn't really matter what I think. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's why
01:15:04
Speaker
You know what? It's impossible to try to out paint these people. Yes. Seriously, because apparently they are operating on a different level than the rest of us are. You know what? They have a plan. And it's an amazing plan. And it's an amazing plan. The only time I've ever been let down by Marvel was Iron Man 3. And they're making up for that because we're getting the real Mandarin in Shang-Chi.
01:15:32
Speaker
So I'm fine with that now. I can deal with that. I have never understood the hatred for Iron Man 3. Well, we can talk about this more when we actually talk about Iron Man 3, and I'll get in all into it then. So, you know. Because I've learned never to mention that movie if I'm in arms distance of Van Allen. That dude is vicious for me.
01:15:57
Speaker
Not mention Iron Man 3. Don't mention that movie to him if he's closing up to grab you, because he will grab you.
01:16:07
Speaker
So we'll grab me. We'll put a pin in that because I got a lot to say about Iron Man 3. So when we get to Iron Man 3, I'll let you, I'll go off or I'll get my five minutes. Okay. All right. All right. Anyway, another thing I liked about Hawkeye in this, like his, this also kind of hints at something Hawkeye does in the comic books when he helps the Thunderbolts, right? And he helps these four villains become heroes. We get kind of a,
01:16:34
Speaker
a reference to that with how he helps Wanda in this, right? And cause there's that, there's again, going back to that scene with his wife when he says, you know, you know, they're punks really. And somebody just needs to teach him some manners. He becomes sort of like an unofficial mentor. Yes. But I've always liked the notion of Hawkeye being kind of like,
01:17:01
Speaker
a talent scout for the Avengers. Yes. Then he goes out and he finds, you know, promising young superheroes and he brings her back to the Avengers. Okay. Well, let us train you and, you know, see if it works out. If you like it, you know, join the team. If not, you get the benefit of our experience and whatever you're going to do with your aspect of it. Well, again, back to music's run. That's exactly what he did with Justice and Firestar.
01:17:25
Speaker
Yeah, right. He tells them, he sees them, he sees they want to be Avengers and he sees the promise, the potential they have. So he takes them back and he takes them back to the Avengers. He says, look, I'm vouching for these two. And they say, look, we've only got one spot left on the team and we were going to give it to you. And then Hawkeye is like, well, you know what?
01:17:49
Speaker
their kids, they can share my spot. Yeah, give it to, yeah. And he's still like, he's willing to- I remember that, yeah. He gives up his price, I said, yeah, give it to him. They work it out where he gets to stay. And they say, look, we can use you guys as reserve members instead. Yeah. And then he does the same thing with the Thunderbolts. Like he goes, he finds them out and he sees that they're really sincere about wanting to reform. And so he takes them under his wing and he starts leading them.
01:18:14
Speaker
And so yeah, I mean, and we see hints of that here with like him saying, you know, they just need to teach him some manners. And when he has that awesome conversation with Wanda, that's one of my favorite scenes in this movie when Wanda's freaking out in the city and Hawkeye gives her the pep talk. He's like, look, you know, none of this makes sense. The city's flying, we're overrun by, we're fighting an army of robots and I've got a bow and arrow. Yeah, it gets no crazier than that. And he says like, look,
01:18:44
Speaker
You wanna, he's like, but I'm gonna go out there because it's my job. And he says like, you wanna stay here, you're fine. I'll send your brother later to pick you up. But if you walk out that door, you're an Avenger and you gotta fight. That is one of the great pep talks in film history. Yes. It is. Listen, we're doing all this. I've got a bow and arrow. Yeah.
01:19:06
Speaker
And we see that there, and they keep coming back to that idea of like Hawkeye being Wanda's mentor, right? We see that in Civil War when he comes to the compound to get her and he tells her, he's like, look, he gives her, he says, you wanna mopey, go to high school, but otherwise, move your ass. And then it kind of pays off at the end when we see that scene of them in Endgame when they're both standing by the water and they're having that little conversation and referencing Natasha and Vision.
01:19:36
Speaker
Yeah. So, and I do like we kind of get that, we get these hints of them having like this deeper relationship that we, that doesn't really get to play out that much. And Jeremy Renner really doesn't get enough credit. I also think as Hawkeye, I, you know, you're watching this and,
01:20:03
Speaker
You know, we've been revisiting him in other movies and whatnot. And I've been watching his performance a little bit more. And there's a lot of nuances to his performance that I think he doesn't get credit for. Because we see so many different facets of him. We see him as a S.H.I.E.L. agent, as an Avenger, as a family man.
01:20:26
Speaker
as a vigilante, too. As a vigilante, yeah, we see so many different, you know, more than any other character, I think, besides Thor. Yeah. You know, Thor goes through quite a few iterations. But we get to see him in, you know, in a lot of different roles. And I don't think Jeremy Renner gets enough credit for that. No, you're absolutely right. And I'm hoping that
01:20:51
Speaker
the Hawkeye series on Disney Plus does for Jeremy Renner and his portrayal of Hawkeye, what WandaVision did for Elizabeth Olsen and her- Exactly, yeah, exactly. And also we kind of get the, again, the idea of him being like a mentor and a talent scout, because we're gonna get the Kate Bishop Hawkeye in that series as well. So that ties into it too. So I'm really looking forward to seeing that Hawkeye series when it comes out, because yeah,
01:21:19
Speaker
Jeremy Renner is really underrated in these movies and so I'm waiting for him to get that chance to shine. Yeah because I mean it goes back to that scene that we saw him in. What movie was that when he was sitting up?
01:21:38
Speaker
high up and Nick Fury said, you know, okay. Well, that was the first Avengers movie. First Avengers, yeah. And he has Stella Skarsgard. He said, okay, where's the Hawkeye at? He said, well, he's up there. And Nick Fury said, well, what are you doing up there? He said, well, I can see everything from here. Yeah. And that's pretty much it defines the character. Right? Yeah. Well, I could see, I sit up here so I could see everything because he's the guy that sees what's coming before anybody else. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
01:22:05
Speaker
which is a very good way to describe his character, because he has these conversations with people, and he tells them, well, you know, this is what's going to happen if we don't do this. And it's really a hint to how Hawkeye's character has evolved over the years in the comic books, because originally in the comics, when he first joined the Avengers, he was just the rabble-rouser.
01:22:25
Speaker
Yeah, he was there to have someone for Cap to verbally spar with, basically. Yeah, he was just there to piss off Captain America. Call him old man and all this old kind of, yeah. But over the years, he developed and he did become what we see Renner doing, where he is this guy who sees all the angles and he knows the Avengers on a level that nobody other than Jarvis really knows that. Exactly.
01:22:52
Speaker
And yeah, I think Jeremy Renner does a really good job of portraying that in these movies. And there's so much chatting today. She's got, she's got opinions. She's got opinions. You know what? She's been waking up lately in the morning and she doesn't cry. She just starts yammering away. And I'm like, I'm like, listen, honey, you want to, you want to have a chat? That's fine. Just wait until after daddy has his coffee. She's trying to talk. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-oh.
01:23:22
Speaker
Oh, she's fine. She's fine too. She's just sneezing a little bit. You'll be in trouble then, my friend. Yeah. Well, she's already given me the steak tonight. When she starts putting those sentences together. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right. You're done. Anyway, other thing in this movie is got to talk about Paul Bettany, obviously.
Iconic Marvel Scenes and Themes
01:23:43
Speaker
First appearance is Vision. Yeah. Like I said, a lot happens in this movie. A lot happens in this movie.
01:23:52
Speaker
And I do love how making him worthy enough to lift a meal in there was such a great shorthand to show that he can be trusted, that he's not ultra, right?
01:24:10
Speaker
And they, they set it up perfectly. You love the look up to his face when he was able to look at everybody's face was awesome, especially Thor. Yeah. But you know, this goes back to that, that scene, the party scene, which again, one of the best scenes in this movie is when, and this is exactly what you'd imagine superheroes do in their time off. Yeah. I mean, Thor says nobody can lift his hammer. So of course, everybody's going to want to try to lift his hammer. Yeah.
01:24:34
Speaker
And you know what, and I love the fact it's on the table because people have this misconception that you can't lift those hammer because it's super heavy. No, it's not super heavy. You just can't lift it. Yeah, yeah. You have to be worthy. And then I've had this thing with people. Well, who determines who's worthy? Well, the hammer.
01:24:56
Speaker
The hammer is enchanted by Odin, who says that the hammer determines who is worthy. How does the hammer determine who's worthy? We have no idea. Yeah. It's just that simple. We don't. The hammer itself determines who's worthy. Yeah. So I love that, especially, you know, we get the hint for what we'll see in Endgame when Steve tries to lift the hammer and it starts to move. Yeah, you see it again. You see the look on Thor's face. And he's like,
01:25:23
Speaker
You know, my theory is that Steve saw the look on Thor's face and then he pretended he couldn't lift it. Yeah. I think that's what it was too. He said, you know what, I'm going to, you know, see we're sitting here having a good time. I'm going to let him save face. Yeah. Yeah. But I also love, you know, Tony pulling out the gauntlet to try and lift it all and then he gets roadie to get his gauntlet and do it. I mean, come on.
01:25:49
Speaker
If you had given him enough time, he would have whipped up some kind of super thing to try to lift the thing. Tony would have been there all night trying to lift that thing. Oh, yes, definitely. Yeah. If Otran had to come along and broke up the party, he'd have been there all night long trying to figure out how to lift that damn hammer instead of just letting it go.
01:26:07
Speaker
Yeah. And also, um, I love the little conversation they have at the end, because that is exactly like those types of conversations you're referencing when they're like, wait, you know, the vision's not really a person, technically, so that's why he can lift it. So yeah. And then they're like, you know, if you put, if you put the hammer on an elevator, the elevator would still go up and down. So it's just like that. And they're trying to justify. And these arguments I've heard all the time, people say, well, if you put those hammer on an elevator, will the elevator go up and down? Well, yeah, the elevator will go up and down.
01:26:38
Speaker
Because the elevator's not sentient. Right, exactly, yeah. I just love that little moment. And you get the sense that they've had these kinds of discussions a lot because Thor's like, you know, I'm going to miss these little chats of ours.
01:26:51
Speaker
Yeah. Because they're trying to figure out how the hammer works. And it's magic. Yeah. There is magic. Also, this movie does a good job of establishing that friendship between the trio because this is really the only time we see them just kind of like sitting around shooting the shit. Yeah. And like I said, I, you know, I love
01:27:12
Speaker
seeing superheroes just sitting around, just bullshitting, having drinks and just, you know, not, you know, nematizing evil or saving the world. They're just enjoying themselves. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And those little character moments, you know, and that's something Wade does really well is just those little small character moments like that and those little conversations.
01:27:36
Speaker
which is something too. I was re-listening to our episode on Justice League last night because we're going to be doing the Snyder Cut next week. And we were talking back then about how these conversations that the characters have are really one of the highlights of the movie. And the same thing in these movies too. Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, I would not trade one minute of the fight we get between
01:28:02
Speaker
Tony Stark in the Hulkbuster armor and the Hulk. But I also would not give up one second of that party scene. Yes. Because to me in my own mind, they're both equally important for different reasons. Yes. Now that's another good thing to talk about is that Hulkbuster scene because we got hints of the Hulkbuster armor in Iron Man 3, but it wasn't quite the edge. And then we see it here. And I love that its name is Veronica.
01:28:32
Speaker
Veronica, yeah. Right? Because his girlfriend is betting on it. Yeah. I mean, did you ever in your life thought that you would see an actual Iron Man Hulk throw down? No, especially not like that. Yeah. Not especially not like that. I mean, wow. That was like, yeah, OK. That right there was worth the price of admission, as far as I was concerned. Well, every time I watch this movie, because I realize this,
01:29:00
Speaker
My wife mentioned like every time when he armors up in the Hulkbuster suit, like I get excited. And my wife even pointed and like every time when he has Hulk down, he does the rocket punch thing. I laugh my ass off. Every time I laugh my ass off at that. Oh yeah, because at this point, Tony is desperate. He said, please go to sleep, go to sleep, go to sleep, go to sleep. It was that one part when Hulk spits out the tooth and just kind of glares at him and Tony's like, I'm sorry. But again,
01:29:30
Speaker
Here's the point, Tony start again, trying to overwhelm a problem through the sheer power of technology. Yeah, yeah. The Hulk is a primal force of nature that can't be reasoned with or controlled. Best thing you could do is leave him alone until he calms down. But Tony can't do that. Right. Because his technology can, you know, he can beat anything with his technology. Well, I would love that they show that
01:29:57
Speaker
unlike, you know, certain other heroes and certain other franchises, they care about what happens to other people around, right? That's why Tony's got the Iron Legion to work crowd control. That's why, you know, Tony catches the elevator when he's throwing down with the Hulk. That's why he scans the building for life signs before he chucks the Hulk into it. And you see, they make a definite point of saying, no life signs detected. And even Tony says like, you know, well, how fast can I buy this building?
01:30:26
Speaker
Yeah, because he knows what's gonna happen. And he even does a couple of times where he's trying to take the Hulk out of the city during the fight. He's trying to take him out of there, but the Hulk gets loose. But yeah, I mean that, I said, yeah, I get excited when that is like,
01:30:44
Speaker
if I was gonna make a list of the top 10 fights in a superhero movie, that would be in the top five. I think so too, yeah. That would be in the top five. That's an epic throw down. And also, I love the puny banner reference we get there too, right? When he says, you're stronger than her, you're smarter than her, you're Bruce Banner, the Hulk gets based like, right, right, right, don't mention puny banner. Yeah, right, oh, wait, oh, sorry. I don't mention puny banner. The Hulk gets pissed. I said, uh-oh.
01:31:13
Speaker
Oh, man. But I also love that they found a way to use the Hulk, because there's a whole thing where they have what's called the Code Green. So you get the sense that Bruce doesn't go out in the field on every mission. It's only when things get hairy. Well, he was back in the Quinjet. Right, exactly. And he called him and he said, well, just because he heard all the chatter going on. He said, well, just the Code Green. There's also in the beginning when after the the Hydra bunker, when he's talking to Tasha and he says, I wasn't expecting a Code Green.
01:31:45
Speaker
Right, so that you get the sense that there have been missions when he's just stayed on the quidjet. Well, you know what, the Hulk is, okay, the Hulk is their mother of all bombs. Yes. You know, they only pull him out. It's like when, in the first Avengers movie, when
01:32:06
Speaker
Tony was talking to Loki and Loki was saying, yeah, well, I got this alien armada. And Tony said, yeah, but we got a Hulk. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, listen, we got a Hulk. So, you know, he's like the mother of all bombs that pull him out when, okay, Hulk smash, that's it. So, yeah, it's not like he just suits up every time that they, you know. Now I understand why they had him
01:32:33
Speaker
attacking the Hydra base. Cause I know somebody is out there saying, well, he was there when they took down the Hydra base. Well, yeah, that's so that we could have that shot of all the Avengers together. I mean, come on. And he did come in handy because they had that bunker that had to be taken out and nobody else could take it out except for him. And he just ran right through the shit. They said, okay. And it cracked me up. He just ran through it. That's all he did.
01:33:02
Speaker
Natasha's trying to cheer Bruce up and she's like, Thor, give us the status report on the Hulk's progress. And he's like, the hell is filled with the screams of his victims. And they like look at him and he's like, um, you know, not dead straight. It's like, you know, complaints are spraying deltoids and gout. You know, maybe not dead, you know, dead dead.
01:33:32
Speaker
But I just love how he just runs right, you know, it's no plan of attack, it's nothing strategic. They just said well Hulk, can you take out that bunker? And he just runs right through it, and obliterates it, and keeps on going. One of my favorite moments is the running gag that Steve starts when Tony says shit, the cap goes language.
01:33:54
Speaker
Yo, yeah. And they keep that up. You know what? I think we got a missed opportunity in Endgame because, you know, when he sees himself in Endgame and he says, oh, you got to be shitting me. When he said that, I expected the past cap to be like language. Language. But yeah, I love that moment, especially it's the running gag in the movie when it's like, hey, Steve, he said a bad language word.
01:34:18
Speaker
And Steve says, and at one point Steve says, y'all not going to let this go. We don't think so. I just love that. I love that. That was one of my favorite parts in the movie. Like a lot of the character stuff is just so well done in this movie. Again, it's the, yeah, we love the spectacle.
01:34:45
Speaker
But it's the character moments that we remember. Yes. And that make us care about these characters and say, OK, yeah, I like that little bit. I like that little bit. I like this. I like that. That's the part that you that's the stuff that you remember. Well, especially on repeat viewing, because I found this when we get to the big throwdown scene at the end and don't get me wrong, it's an epic superhero battle. It's fun to watch. But
01:35:11
Speaker
the more I watch this movie, the less interested I am in that, and the more interested I am in those character interactions. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's an important fight. But we're invested in it because of all the character moments that came before. Yes, absolutely. Like when Nick Fury shows up.
01:35:36
Speaker
And he really has a nice conversation with Tony Stark. And he tells him, well, you know what? I care about you. Yeah, yeah. He said, that's why I'm here. I'm not here just to bust your chops. I really am invested. Because he brought all these people together. Yes. And also, he is invested in them. And it's a very telling moment when he admits to them, hey, well, you know what? I used to have eyes, and ears everywhere. I don't have that anymore.
01:36:06
Speaker
all this high tech stuff. You don't have that anymore. But I don't think he still has it. Even with everything that happened with their soldier, he still can't shed that, you know, that deception part of his character when still he's got, he's got Hill reporting back to him on what the Avengers are doing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because she's with them for the whole movie. So, you know, what she was doing. Yeah. She was, she was calling up every night saying, okay, well, this is what they're doing. Yeah.
01:36:36
Speaker
I also have a little moment too when, and this kind of hints that they understand that why the twins are doing this, right? When Hill's giving him a rundown on the Maximoffs and she says, you know, you believe it or not, they actually volunteered for Strucker's experiments. And Steve's like, yeah, you're right. What kind of psychopath would let a German scientist experiment on them to protect their country?
01:37:06
Speaker
And he says, very telling. She's like, well, we're not at war, Cap. And he said, well, they are, right? Well, they are. Yeah. That's what I love about how they're handling. And this is one of the things I love about that I think gets lost by people who don't really read Captain America comic books, where they think Cap is jingoistic and he's all, he's pro-American nationalism. He's really not. You read the Captain America comic books even. He's much more understanding of how things really work in the world.
01:37:36
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. And like you said, that scene in the elevator, it's very telling. And I would like to believe that Chris Evans, as an actor, insisted that line be in there, because it says a whole lot about Captain America's character. And like you said, his awareness. Yes. Because he because he's telling Maria Hill and that more. Yeah, he understands. He understands 100% why they did that.
01:38:07
Speaker
Well, you know, it goes back to even the first movie when he, when, you know, Erskine asked him, you know, oh, so you want to go to, you want to go overseas and kill some Nazis, right? And he's like, look, I don't want to kill anyone. He's like, I just hate bullies. He's like, I'm just trying to do the right thing. So for him, it's not about like, you know, what the propaganda is saying. For him, it's, it's a much more personal thing. Yeah, I get that. But what I'm saying is that
01:38:34
Speaker
Steve Rogers as a human being, as a man, he's not blind to what his own country is capable of. Right. Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, yeah, he did the same thing. He volunteered and his country experimented on him. Well, that's exactly what I mean. I'm saying the same thing. I'm just saying that that's another aspect of that. It's another way of showing that aspect of his character. Because when he wants to enlist, it's not because he buys in the propaganda and he wants to kill Nazis. It's because, look, I see what these guys are doing. I know it's wrong.
01:39:04
Speaker
That's really why I want to sign up. It's not because I want to kill a bunch of people. So he's not buying into the propaganda. He has his own reasons for doing it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, okay. Yeah. Like I said, he's not buying to what his own country exactly. Yeah. You know, so yeah, it's a great, it's a great, again, we go back again. It's a little character moment that says a whole lot. If you're paying attention, right? It says a whole lot. You know, just like Christopher Reeve is,
01:39:33
Speaker
probably the best version of Superman in any incarnation. Like when I think about the best version, I don't think about any specific comic writer, I think of Christopher Reed. It's the same thing with Steve and Tony and Thor to a certain extent as well. Like my ideal versions of these characters are Chris Evans, Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Hemsworth. Yeah, exactly. That's how I think of these characters. I mean,
01:40:00
Speaker
I always heard the argument and people always make this argument. They said, well, you can't, of course, before we had First Avenger, people said, well, you can't do a Captain America movie because he's too nationalistic and American values have changed and he's too corny and everything like that. And then what they did, they found Chris Evans who just portrayed him simply as a man
01:40:30
Speaker
with morals. Well, I mean, in that argument, and this goes back to what I was saying about people not really understanding Captain, because the Captain America comic books have haven't been like that, like the nationalistic type of stuff since the 1950s. Yeah, really, seriously. I mean, like, yeah, from the 1960s on when they gave when they brought Cap back and they even his own title, you know,
01:40:53
Speaker
At first, it wasn't even anything to do with politics or American ideals or anything like that. It was just all like, you know, funky Silver Age sci-fi stuff for a long time. And it wasn't until Steve Engelhardt came in that Engelhardt's the one who kind of introduced the
01:41:09
Speaker
the more modern style cat that we see in the movies, right? Where he's, you know, more conflicted about what his country does, more independent. So like the idea of like cat being is like this nationalist character. That's an idea that comes from people who've obviously never read any Captain America comics.
01:41:26
Speaker
Because when you had Captain America, go back and read Captain America during the run during the 60s and 70s. Go read some of the Starenko issues. Where Captain America was basically an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. He was working for Nick Fury. He was going to spy missions for S.H.I.E.L.D.
01:41:43
Speaker
Yeah, so he was dividing his time between the Avengers issue where he wasn't going on fighting super villains, you know, with the Avengers, he was, you know, working for ship and there was no politics at all in there. Basically just Captain America was basically for the longest time, really, he was basically another costume superhero. Yes. Yeah.
01:42:04
Speaker
You know, no politics at all until, like you said, until we got, you know, like the seventies. Right. And then we get into Steve Engelhardt and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And then we got more back into, uh, the whole thing with, uh, but I think the genius of the movies is that they have portrayed him as a man with these values from the world war two era and how those,
01:42:31
Speaker
values and morals are in conflict with today's conflicts and morals. And that's really a credit to Engelhardt because he's the one who really kind of introduced that aspect to the character. Because Engelhardt came in and he did the secret empire story in the midst of Watergate. It was all in response to Watergate and what Nixon had done and how would Captain America react if he knew what his government was up to.
01:42:59
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. And so yeah, they, I think they've done a really good job of translating those ideas in these movies. And Chris Evans is really like the perfect actor to really portray that. Because I like how they didn't, and excuse me folks if I repeat myself here, but I like how they really didn't dwell on the whole thing. Because to me, I never liked it when the Captain America comics would do the whole man out of time thing. And how he felt that he, you know, that he couldn't fit in this new world because, you know, no,
01:43:28
Speaker
Steve Rogers is a smart guy. He pretty much figures out how to work a cell phone fairly quickly, you know, the internet, you know, whatever. He's not a dummy. He figures shit out, you know. Right. Well, I mean, this is something I always and this is something that kind of annoys me in the comic books when people write Captain America as if he's a grandfather.
01:43:49
Speaker
Right? Yeah. They write him as if he's an old man in a young man's body. Really, he's not. He's just a young man who's been put into a different time period. Who's been a suspended animation. Exactly. I mean, he's just, I mean, he's got the, and of course with the super soldier serum, you know, his, his neurons are probably enhanced and whatnot. Right, right, right. Yeah. He's not a dumb guy. So I like how the movies didn't dwell on that, you know, at all, that whole
Character Development in MCU
01:44:14
Speaker
thing.
01:44:14
Speaker
time today because I'm pretty sure that Nick Fury put him okay we're going to put you in this intensive class and we're going to bring you up to speed on history and technology and what we just didn't see it. Well I mean he also there's there's that great scene at the beginning of and we can talk about this when we talk about Winter Soldier but when he he when he meets Sam and Sam's like wow it must have been terrible for you you know waking up you know 70 years later he's like
01:44:38
Speaker
it's like actually you know it's not so bad he was like you know food's a lot better the internet's been really helpful for me to find out what i missed and he keeps a list of things that he should check out yeah exactly which is what which is what you and i would probably do if we woke up suspended 70 years from now okay well i gotta catch up on this i gotta catch up on that i got you know i make a list yeah i mean yeah
01:45:00
Speaker
The last thing I would be doing would be be moaning that I left behind the time that I was in. Yes. So I would be moaning to people. Right. You know, I said, oh, damn. Okay. Well, I'll give myself five minutes to mourn. Okay. Let's go. Where's my jet pack? Where's my flying car? Where's my underwater city? Come on. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, okay.
01:45:29
Speaker
Oh, so we gotta talk about the infamous, the most infamous part about this movie, and that's the Natasha Bruce situation. Oh, yeah, well. You know what? I honestly think that that's the one aspect of the movie that most people, if there's any problem that they have with the movie, really that's it. I think so too, yeah. And I think, so this is the infamous scene, right?
01:45:55
Speaker
They're at the, when he says, when Bruce says, you know, I can't have this, I can't have a family, I can't have kids, right? And she says, neither can I. And she says, you know, in the red room, they have this graduation ceremony where they sterilize you so that there's nothing that can distract you from the mission. And then she says, do you think you're still the only monster on the team? Now,
01:46:23
Speaker
My read on that scene is not her saying, I'm a monster because I can't have kids. It's, I'm a monster because I'm an assassin who was basically designed to kill. Yeah. That's how I always read that scene. I will admit though. A lot of people didn't read it that way though. And I will admit, and the writing in that scene is clunky. It's nebulous. They don't do a good job of really portraying that well.
01:46:50
Speaker
but I think you have to look into the context of him talking about the fact that they're talking about this, the world has seen the real Hulk for the first time. And he's not saying I'm a monster because I can't have kids. Neither of them are. They're saying I'm a monster because of look at all the damage I cause. And that's really more, but it's just really sloppily. And I think part of the problem is just introducing the whole sterilization,
01:47:19
Speaker
thing in the first place. There's no reason for that at all. That conversation would work perfectly well if you just took out any reference to kids or families at all. Agreed. Just stick with the old thing about her being an assassin. She feels she's a monster because she was raised
01:47:42
Speaker
you know, practically from childhood to be an assassin, to be a killer. You never really had a childhood. You know, it's a, yeah, once you get into the whole thing with, well, I was sterilized. You know, now that kind of like makes you sit back and go, wait a minute. Wait a minute. One minute, we talking about sentient robots trying to take over the world. And now you're talking about human sterilization? Yes. That's kind of a leap here, folks, you know? Yeah.
01:48:10
Speaker
I mean, listen, I'm here for the drama, but yeah, that is kind of a leap. Maybe not in light of the things we've learned about Joss Whedon. Right, exactly. It may be, in that sense, yeah, I see why he's putting that in there. Because this is another aspect of how Whedon being a fake feminist, where he's trying to portray himself as enlightened everything, but these other things seep through.
01:48:39
Speaker
And I don't know why everybody was surprised by that because I always thought Wheaton was a fake feminist. You know what? I never tried. It's like, what's that line from Shakespeare? Me thinks he doth protest too much. You know, when you work that hard at trying to present yourself as being a ally or feminist and stuff like that,
01:49:05
Speaker
that only makes me think, well, why are you working so hard to try to prove that you're, you know, if you are an ally to feminine, well, then just be an ally. You don't have to, you know, promote yourself as being one so hard.
01:49:18
Speaker
You know what I mean? Oh, exactly. And I will admit, I was one of those people who was taken in by it. And it's only now in retrospect that I look back and I'm able to see through it. But it does remind me of Rachel Maddow had this line that she was repeating many times over the course of the past four years with the Trump administration. She says, watch what they do, not what they say. Yeah. And I think that really applies to weed.
01:49:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think you do see that in that scene. And just like the whole Bruce and Natasha thing in general, it just, like even discounted, because I did not read that scene that way the first time I watched this movie. It was only until after everyone got all open up, arms about it, that I started looking back and like, okay, well, I can see that now. I can see why that's, I see why people reading it that way.
01:50:09
Speaker
Even the first time I saw this movie, before I even thought about that, I just thought the idea of Bruce and Natasha just seemed like a really odd matchup. And it doesn't really seem to add anything to this movie.
01:50:19
Speaker
What would be wrong with her just having the same relationship with Bruce that she has with Steve Rogers? Because they've never, you know, they're coworkers, they respect each other, they're friends. You know, when in the first Avengers movie, that's the impression I got from Natasha. And Bruce, they were just friends, you know, they were bonding. Because they are two extraordinary people in an extraordinary world. So of course they're born over there. To like kind of try to,
01:50:50
Speaker
How can I put this? I get the feeling that we even felt like there had to be some kind of romance in the movie. Yeah. And he just shoehorned in that one because a romance between Bruce Banner and the two, even though I'm pretty sure they liked each other a lot, they just don't strike me as that they would have that vibe that, you know,
01:51:11
Speaker
that no. It just kind of feels like it was done because those are the only two characters that it could happen with. Exactly. Yeah. Because you know you got you know Tony's got Pepper, Thor's got Jane, Steve at this point you know kind of has something going on with um Sharon Carter. So you know it you really only have you know and it's too early for Vision and Wanda to get involved so all you got left is Bruce and Natasha.
01:51:37
Speaker
And actually, it's the one aspect of the movie that slows down things because we've got so much shit already going on here. We don't need this. We really don't. It's the one aspect of the movie that to me
01:51:57
Speaker
It's false because there's no reason for it. I think you can edit out every instance of any sort of hinting at them having a relationship together. And this movie works still just as well, right? Because it's really awkward when he comes out of the shower and he says, well, I use up all the hot water. And she said, well, if I had known that, I would have joined you and everything like that. And I said, yeah, really?
01:52:27
Speaker
Really Natasha says what did you become you know like a shower slut you know seriously you know that I mean that comes out of nowhere yeah yeah you know yeah that's that's the one character interaction in this movie that just does not work and especially not that I'm opposed to sharing the showers my
01:52:48
Speaker
But I'm just saying, that was a lot that seemed like wildly out of character for her at that moment. We said, well, if I'd known that, I would have joined you. Yeah, yeah. Oh, OK. Yeah, it just doesn't fit to her character, neither of their characters. This relationship doesn't really fit. And Hulk smash.
01:53:14
Speaker
All right. All right. There's no point in continuing this. You know I have no clue. I'm sorry. OK. That's the perfect note to end this on. I'm sorry. OK. I have no clue. OK. Any final thoughts about Age of Ultron?
01:53:34
Speaker
Only that for those of you who maintain you don't like Age of Ultron, I have no idea why. It's to me, like I said, this is the visual equivalent of those Avengers annuals. I used to wait for the summer for those big 64 page annuals. And I would open it up and I would devour it practically by the time I got home, cause I would be reading it while I'm walking down the street.
01:54:04
Speaker
Excellent performances. Great cameos. It's got that absolutely astounding Iron Man and Hope fight. Well, I was like at the end how they hint at the nature of the Avengers roster. Because that was something that when the Avengers did that in the comic books, when Stanley got rid of all the original Avengers and brought in the kooky quartet, right?
01:54:33
Speaker
when it was Cap, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch. That was revolutionary for the time because comic book superhero teams, their rosters did not change. They did not change, yeah. They did not change. Justice League, you had the big seven, Fantastic Four, you had Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben. The X-Men still at this time, it was still just the original five. Superhero rosters did not change back then.
01:54:58
Speaker
So when Stan Lee did that, that was something really different at the time. Yeah, because in this movie, we get the Avengers compound. We get the Avengers compound and we get a new Avengers team, a completely new team, right? We have Cap and Natasha are the only holdovers. And the rest of it, we got Wanda, we got Vision, and we got Falcon and War Machine in there. Falcon and War Machine, yeah. And I think if there's one thing that I...
01:55:23
Speaker
that I kind of regret about the MCU is that we didn't see more of just the new Avengers team. Like we didn't get like at least one movie where the new Avengers. Yeah. Yeah. We should have had one movie in between with that team. Right. And I would have, I feel the same thing about also in the, in the end of civil war, like having a movie with Cap's secret Avengers team. Right. And you got that whole situation where Hawkeye and Ant-Man,
01:55:52
Speaker
end up leaving to end up taking deals. What was that conversation like? I would have liked to see something like that too. I would have loved to see that conversation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but like you said, at the end of this movie, we're left with a brand new Avengers team, and we really should have had one movie with that team. Right. Instead, all we get is that sequence at the beginning of Civil War, and that's it. Yeah, and that's it. Yeah.
01:56:17
Speaker
So I think, and that's probably another one of those missed opportunities, which I'm not saying it weakens the MCU at all. It's just something I wish we could have seen. I wish we could have seen, yeah. I mean, listen, like I said, I watched Age of Ultron today.
01:56:36
Speaker
The first time, I don't know. I'm trying to think of when was the last time. It had to have been a long time because like I said, a lot of it, I forgot Claude was in the movie at all. And I mean, so to me it was like watching a brand new movie and I had a thoroughly good time. I enjoyed myself. Absolutely. Same here. It was a blast. I mean, I'm sorry. I don't know what people, but then again, you know what? And I've been having this conversation with people
01:57:05
Speaker
Because last weekend, as I'm sure you know, even if you haven't seen it yet, the Eddie Murphy sequel Coming to America. Right, right. Dropped on... Coming to America. Coming to America. Wow. What did I say? No, I said Coming to as in emphasizing the number two. Yeah, right. So, and there was a lot of negative things said about the movie. Oh, yeah. You know, well, yeah, a lot of people, you know,
01:57:34
Speaker
And I think what it, okay. Every movie is not supposed to be the perfect movie. And I think that people have simply forgotten how to have fun watching a movie. I really do.
01:58:01
Speaker
My theory is that people, and here's why I get in trouble. I think people expect too much from movies. They really do. They want every movie to be everything to them. And that's simply impossible. There's some movies you watch for different reasons. It's like, one thing I always like to say when I write my reviews that some movies are meant to be no more than the equivalent of a Big Mac, large fries,
01:58:31
Speaker
and a supersized Coke. And that's it. It's not supposed to uplift you morally. It's not supposed to improve the quality of your life. It's not supposed to make you feel smarter. It's simply there just to entertain you. Well, also, when you think about something like Coming to America, the original one, I mean, that wasn't, that's earned its reputation over time, right? It's not a movie that,
01:58:59
Speaker
was an instant classic when it came out. It's a movie that that reputation has grown. People have watched it and re-watched it on TV and whatnot, and they'd all define. Kind of the same thing with Ghostbusters.
01:59:11
Speaker
Right? Yeah, it's it's because it's it's built up this reputation over time. So of course, you know, they coming out with the sequel 30 years after the fact, of course, it's not going to be the same experiences the first time because you've had most of you have grown up your whole lives watching the original coming to America, catching it on TV and things like that. And know what it never can be.
01:59:33
Speaker
the same experience that you had watching it the first time. Matter of fact, you know what? I was just delighted to see the fact that they had so many people from the original movie in this one. That's it. If you think about the Star Wars movies, this is a good example, because I remember when Jon Stewart was hosting The Daily Show, he had George Lucas on.
01:59:53
Speaker
And he was talking about the prequels and everything with George Lucas and he says, well, you know, it's really different depending on He's like, because my my son tells me that The Phantom Menace is my favorite Star Wars movie and he says, and I always correct him and I say, no, no, your favorite Star Wars movie is a new hope. And he's like, but that's the thing, like for a lot of kids who grew up with
02:00:14
Speaker
the prequels as their first Star Wars movies. And this is something we've said before, that when you catch people at that right age and you introduce them or something, they're gonna love it for the rest of their lives. Exactly, exactly. And it's like,
02:00:31
Speaker
you know, Tom Baker is my favorite Dr. Who, you know, because I just happened to catch Tom Baker at the right time. But for all the people that would tell you, okay, well, it's, you know, it's a John Pertwee or this other guy or whatever, you know, it's a generational thing. And I just think that people have lost the capacity to just simply allow themselves to enjoy
02:00:59
Speaker
Watch it's like when we were talking about one division and I remember that you made the observation you said that you know which I agree with of course 100% because you're brilliant and that are.
02:01:11
Speaker
People got mad at the show because the show didn't fulfill their predictions of what they thought was going to happen. Yes. They didn't allow themselves to just be entertained by what they were watching. They wanted to try to prove that they were smarter than the writers of the show. And they said, OK, well, this is what they're doing. This is what they're doing. And then when that didn't happen, then they just got pissed at the show and went on the internet. And so, well, the show was crap. The show was stupid. I've been saying this nonstop since that finale is
02:01:39
Speaker
you judge the show for what it is, not for what you expected it to be. Just because the show doesn't embrace whatever weird theory you concocted, which is almost always a terrible theory, let's be honest, that doesn't make it a bad show. I feel like a lot of these fans, I think they would just be happy if you just gave them a series of movies that's just a bunch of cameos and they would be totally satisfied. I remember back when,
02:02:09
Speaker
Daredevil or Netflix person. And it was all these people had or came out the woodwork with all these theories that moon night was gonna be on the show. For whatever reason, I cannot imagine because there was no hint at all that there was moon. And then you had the people that was complaining. They said, well, would it kill them to have Iron Man fly by or to have a Stark industry sign or to show the Baxter building and everything?
02:02:38
Speaker
Why would they do that? This is a Daredevil series. And that's what people were focused on. They were focused on because they wanted to see all these cameos and references to other, you know, movies. And they hated Daredevil because they didn't get that. But that's what they came to the show for. They're just so weird because like, if you think of
02:03:00
Speaker
There have been things that have done that, like Smallville was infamous for that, right? All little Easter eggs and the winking at the audience types, which got really annoying after a while. Like at first, oh, it's cute. Look, he calls his little getaway, his fortress of solitude. They do these little cutesy, and at first it's okay, but when it keeps piling up and piling up, it gets really freaking annoying.
02:03:25
Speaker
Me, actually, to be honest, I like the fact that Daredevil kept all that shit out there. Yeah. Because that's not what the show was supposed to be about. We'll also remember going back to Daredevil movie, too. Remember all the Easter eggs and stuff they had in there where like every single name they mentioned had to have been a writer on the Daredevil comic books? Yeah. And it just got really annoying. Yeah.
Standalone Marvel Productions
02:03:47
Speaker
I mean, that's not what the show is not supposed to be.
02:03:50
Speaker
Easter eggs, just for the sake of Easter eggs, so then you can get on the Internet and say, Oh, did you catch that they mentioned moon night into, you know, oh, and we're going to get so and so and so and so and
02:04:03
Speaker
Also, going back to what you say, and I'm gonna rubber stamp it. Folks, quite frankly, most of the theories y'all come up with anyway is shit. Yeah, yeah, it is. There, I said it. They are. Most of the stuff y'all come up with, I have no idea where y'all pull this stuff from. I still remember the, there was the, I remember the theory flying around. There are two big theories flying around with Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad. Mm-hmm. Batman v Superman, the theory was that Ben Affleck wasn't actually playing Batman.
02:04:32
Speaker
who's actually playing Deathstroke, and Christian Bale was going to come back as Batman in the end, and Deathstroke was just going to be posing as Batman. And I'm like, that's like the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. And the other theory is that Jared Leto wasn't playing the Joker, but he was playing Jason Todd, who ended up going crazy after the Joker tried to kill him, and then he became a new type of Joker. And I'm just like, this is just
02:04:58
Speaker
the most utterly insane crap I've ever heard. And all it does is it proves to me that just because you're a fan does not mean you're a writer. No, no, no. Because some of the stuff that
02:05:15
Speaker
these fans come up with, wouldn't even make good fan fiction. No, no. And we've seen some bad fan fiction. And we've seen tons of bad fan fiction. Matter of fact, I've seen some bad fan fiction that started out with better premises than, but again, like I always said, you have a lot of people with a lot of time on their hands.
02:05:33
Speaker
And I've talked to some people and they said, well, it's fun to come up with this stuff. Well, no, it's not. OK, it may be fun for you. But when you put it out there, you present this as something that you're sure is going to happen. You know, you're just muddying the waters. It's not like you sitting around with a bunch of your friends and you just because you and I both know there's a whole ton of comic book based
02:05:57
Speaker
websites, some of them very infamous, that do nothing but indulge in this type of bullshit all day long. You know, they present these fake stories as, well, this is a rumor that we've heard. No, it's not. It's just you just throwing this out there, you know. And you're saying it's a rumor that people will believe it. Yeah. And know what? And a lot of people buy into this. I don't know what people have very poorly developed bullshit
02:06:22
Speaker
Detectors I guess mine is fine-tuned. You know, yeah, I can spot bullshit from a mile away. Yes, I can and yeah, but that's I read it now Oh, well, that's bullshit. Yeah, let go and I go on to the next thing. Yeah, that's obviously bullshit so and well and With like here's my thing you want to make up fan theories Knock yourself out, but don't get pissed because your fear theories don't come true like I had a theory about
02:06:51
Speaker
this about WandaVision that proved wrong, right? I thought it was going to be, Kathon was going to be behind it. Right. No mention of Kathon at all. I'm like, okay, I guess I was wrong. That's it. I go on with my life.
02:07:02
Speaker
Yeah. And also you weren't going out there on a dozen different websites, throwing that out there as a rumor. Exactly. That you heard. Right. You know, you did it here in the confines of your own podcast. Right. And not only that, and I didn't say this is a rumor I heard. This is what I think is going to happen. This is what you do. Exactly. Because this is your form to do that. Right. Yeah. You know, you're not, you know, disseminating false information, fake news.
02:07:27
Speaker
will to an unsuspecting populace. Right. Exactly. Who apparently believes anything that, you know, I'm not going to mention no names. We know these websites. I'll mention a few of them. You know, we got this covered, bounding into comics, cosmic times. All these sites are pure bullshit, unadulterated, pure 100% uncut bullshit.
02:07:54
Speaker
And I have told people, listen, stop sending me links when we got this covered. I said, well, how do you know that is not true? Well, yes, I do know it's not true because I have a very highly developed bullshit detector. Friends don't let foreign share links when we got this covered. Yeah, exactly. We don't do this.
02:08:14
Speaker
Going back to what you said, which was Age of Ultron, I enjoyed it. I had a good time watching it today. Matter of fact, I'm probably going to watch it again, not tonight, but I'm probably going to watch it again tomorrow or Friday, simply because I haven't seen it so long and I want to watch it again. Yeah. I mean, well, we saw it a few weeks ago after one of the WandaVision episodes, because after the, I think it was after the episode with Krick Silver or something, because my wife is like, oh, I want to watch Age of Ultron again.
02:08:44
Speaker
because she had only had a bait. We'd only seen like, I think, one time. I know that we fell down a rabbit hole because we watched Age of Ultron. Then she's like, oh, I want to watch Infinity War now. And then we just say, I want to watch Endgame. See? Yeah, because of course, you can't watch Infinity War and then say, well, I'm not going to watch Endgame. You got it. Yeah. All right. So...
02:09:03
Speaker
that brings and cosign everything you said about Age of Ultron. It's not as good as the other Avengers movie, but it's still a worthy addition into the series. I still enjoy the hell out of it. We get some great performances. Yeah, the Natasha Bruce stuff should not be in there at all. That should have just been left on the editing floor.
02:09:25
Speaker
You know there there's some clunkiness here and there, but overall it's very entertaining performances more than makeup for any missteps in the writing and and I i'm going to say again, I hope we see James spader and Aaron Taylor Johnson again because they were.
02:09:41
Speaker
Perfect. And speaking as somebody who's been an Avengers fan all their life, it's very hard for me to say anything against a movie with my favorite super team. I'm sorry. Especially when it's as well cast as this and as well produced as this one. And it's got such great fight scenes and such great characterization. This movie is like the best Avengers comic I've read come to life.
02:10:09
Speaker
Yeah. Clean and simple. Okay, so next week, it's time. It is? And we finally get to get it out of the way.
02:10:23
Speaker
because we're gonna record on a different day so that we can actually sit down and watch Zack Snyder's Justice League. It's coming out to HBO Max next week or this week by when you guys are listening to this episode. And so we're gonna sit through all four hours and we're gonna talk about it. And then- Yeah, I think it's what, next Thursday? Yeah, yeah.
02:10:49
Speaker
You're gonna watch the whole four hours at one clip? Yeah, I'm gonna probably have a bottle of whiskey with me, but I'm gonna sit through the whole thing. Okay. Yeah, and then we'll- Well, that's what I was playing on doing myself. I was playing, yeah, I'm gonna watch the whole thing at one time. So we're gonna watch it, and we're gonna talk about it, and then hopefully we can be done talking about Zack Snyder and the DC characters
02:11:18
Speaker
Give me one year, at least one year, when I don't have to think about Zack Snyder in DC Comics movies. You know what? That's probably...
02:11:26
Speaker
And you know, I've talked to people, you know, some of them, you know, say, oh, I don't know why you complain about so much. You know, you're going to watch it. Well, yeah, I'm going to watch it. But that doesn't mean I'm not tired of hearing about it every day. It's like, you know, Zack Snyder's Justice League is like the equivalent of Donald Trump. I didn't want to see him on my TV every day either. I wanted him to be doing his job as a president. I didn't want him on my TV every day running his mouth.
02:11:51
Speaker
Well, just the same way, every time I go on the internet, I don't want to hear, you know, about, you know, whether it's another trailer for, you know, oh, did you hear about the new trailer for what? The new trailer is exactly like the old trailer? Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm tired of hearing about the movie already. Yeah, of course I'm going to watch it. But on the plus side, you know, even though we're getting we're getting that, but we're also getting
02:12:18
Speaker
next week first episode of falcon and winter soldiers dropping too now see that i'm excited about that i'm excited for yeah yeah that i'm excited about so there's something new it's something new yeah so i mean okay maybe see here's the thing i can't believe that there's anything in this movie that's going to be particularly revelatory yeah yeah i mean everyone's and you know because here's the thing people on the internet they get their hopes all up about it and then
02:12:48
Speaker
We got a problem. People these days are so terrified of admitting they were wrong about something. So you're going to have people, even if the movie is an absolute train wreck, you have people who are going to dig in their heels and say it was amazing. Because they've been saying it's amazing for five years. Well, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is like, you know, this is like the Ark of the Covenant. Yeah. This is like the Holy Grail for these people. So no matter how it turns out,
02:13:17
Speaker
there will be people that will still proclaim this to be the greatest movie ever made. Exactly, yeah. I myself am not, but then again, I do not look for movies to be transformative religious experiences. I look for movies for entertainment. As long as I'm entertained, I'm happy. Yeah, same here. That's all. And that's what I'm looking for this movie to do, is entertain me. I'm not looking forward to, you know,
02:13:44
Speaker
I'll make my life better or, you know, make me a better person. Right. If it, as long as it doesn't make me feel like those four hours out of my life that I'm giving to it is wasted.
02:13:55
Speaker
I'm cool with it. Yeah, although I got a feeling that's how I'm going to feel about it. But we'll find out. We'll see. We will all find it out together.
Anticipation for Future Releases
02:14:06
Speaker
All right. So join us next week when we talk about Zack Snyder's Justice League. Until then, Superhero Cinephiles is the Facebook group, Supercinemapod on Twitter and Instagram. Follow us, like and share the podcast, like and share the YouTube channel. Give us a review if you can.
02:14:24
Speaker
That about does it for us. We'll see you next week. Thank you for listening. And as always, good night. Good evening. God bless.
02:14:34
Speaker
You have been listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at SuperCinemapod. Join our Facebook group by searching for Superhero Cinephiles, where you can interact with us and other superhero fans. If you'd like to support the show, you can become a regular supporter at Patreon or make a one-time donation through PayPal, both of which can be found at our website, SuperheroCinephiles.com.
02:14:56
Speaker
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