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39 Felicity Trew | Literary Agent
267 Plays4 years ago
Children's/YA literary agent, Felicity is back! We catch up on her exciting nomination for Agent of the Year at the Romantic Novelist Association's Annual Industry Awards, alongside Caroline Sheldon, as well as everything that's going on in the world of agenting and publishing. We talk about all the things that she's learned through lockdown and how the industry has changed as well as which sorts of books are in high demand right now.
Update! Felicity has changed career and is no longer a literary agent.
Signing up to the Patreon will give you access to the Discord server, where you'll be able to interact directly with Jamie as well as many of the previous agents, authors and editors who have been on the show. You'll also be able to see who the upcoming guests are and put forward questions for Jamie to ask them.
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The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes
Jamie, Melissa and Noami talk about the best and the worst writing tropes!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
So our podcast is called Right and Wrong.
00:00:02
Speaker
Are these your notes?
00:00:03
Speaker
These are your notes about what we're going to say.
00:00:06
Speaker
What does it say?
00:00:06
Speaker
I thought it would be a good... I didn't even get the idea.
00:00:12
Speaker
Maybe I can just ask you the question.
00:00:16
Speaker
It's going well.
00:00:16
Speaker
It's going really well.
Award Nomination and Competition
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:00:27
Speaker
As always, it's me, Jamie, and today I'm excited to welcome back the lovely Felicity True.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hi Felicity.
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello Jamie, thank you for having me again.
00:00:38
Speaker
Oh well it's my pleasure completely.
00:00:40
Speaker
God it feels like
00:00:41
Speaker
forever since we last had you on.
00:00:43
Speaker
How are you doing?
00:00:44
Speaker
I'm doing good.
00:00:45
Speaker
I just, like everyone, I'm just trying to understand time at the moment.
00:00:49
Speaker
As you said, I'm just like, where is it?
00:00:51
Speaker
What does it mean?
00:00:52
Speaker
And how do I sit in it?
00:00:53
Speaker
But no, I'm doing really well.
00:00:55
Speaker
It's a very relative concept.
00:00:56
Speaker
And you are doing very
Impact of Pandemic on Agenting
00:00:57
Speaker
well.
00:00:57
Speaker
So let's start off with huge congratulations on being nominated for R&A Industry Awards Agent of the Year.
00:01:04
Speaker
Thank you very much.
00:01:05
Speaker
How does it feel?
00:01:06
Speaker
Oh, it feels really great.
00:01:07
Speaker
It feels, it feels, I feel, you know, great doesn't even begin to cover it.
00:01:12
Speaker
I feel, I feel very, I don't know.
00:01:15
Speaker
It's very, very moving.
00:01:16
Speaker
And yeah, and I love the RNA and I'm just, I don't know who put me forward for it.
00:01:23
Speaker
I have no idea, but I'm just like eternally grateful for, for anyone who did.
00:01:29
Speaker
And it just feels very, very precious.
00:01:31
Speaker
Well, I think it's well deserved.
00:01:33
Speaker
And even more excitingly, you're in the final nominations with none other than Caroline Sheldon.
00:01:40
Speaker
I know.
00:01:41
Speaker
I tell you, I've got tough competition.
00:01:43
Speaker
I know we've sort of been emailing each other going, well, we've got 50% of it.
00:01:46
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:01:50
Speaker
Oh, dear me.
00:01:50
Speaker
But of course, the worry is if neither of us get it, then oh, dear.
00:01:54
Speaker
But never mind.
00:01:54
Speaker
We're going to be positive.
00:01:56
Speaker
But yeah, I couldn't be proud.
00:01:57
Speaker
It's a great achievement just to be in the nominations, just to be in the final four of that.
00:02:02
Speaker
Because the shortlist is there's quite a few people in the extended shortlist.
00:02:05
Speaker
So yes, you guys have done very well.
00:02:08
Speaker
And it's a win for the agency.
Remote Work Positives
00:02:10
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:02:11
Speaker
It's very much a win for the agency.
00:02:12
Speaker
And as I said, Caroline's one of my greatest friends.
00:02:15
Speaker
So I would absolutely support her 100%.
00:02:19
Speaker
It might be a bit weird beating your boss as well.
00:02:25
Speaker
If that happens, Jamie, I shall deal with it.
00:02:29
Speaker
So despite trying to understand how the change of time has worked over the last couple of years, everything that's happened across the world, did it feel like a special year for you in sort of wake of this nomination?
00:02:44
Speaker
It did, actually.
00:02:45
Speaker
I think, actually, yes, I do feel quite emotional about it in some regards, because I think it's everybody really pulling together, supporting each other, my authors and editors and everybody saying, we're going to make this work and we're going to make it together.
00:03:04
Speaker
Because really, when we sort of all moved remotely,
00:03:08
Speaker
It just happened overnight and everybody just went, right, we've got a job to do and we're going to do it together.
00:03:15
Speaker
And yeah, it's been very, very pressurized.
00:03:17
Speaker
It's been like no other year I've ever experienced in agenting.
00:03:21
Speaker
And it does feel very special because it feels like they're saying, yes, we did this together at an extraordinary time.
00:03:27
Speaker
And it feels, yeah, really great to say that people said, we like how you handled it.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yes, truly overcoming adversity is what you guys did.
00:03:38
Speaker
It's been a very strange few years for everyone, but how has it like changed agenting?
Signing Authors and Online Platforms
00:03:44
Speaker
And do you think it's changed agenting?
00:03:47
Speaker
I can't speak.
00:03:48
Speaker
Has it changed agenting?
00:03:50
Speaker
Is that a verb?
00:03:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think it should be.
00:03:54
Speaker
I use it all the time.
00:03:56
Speaker
How has it changed?
00:03:56
Speaker
Well, do you know what the most phenomenal thing for me is as an agent through all this kind of remote situation and throughout the pandemic?
00:04:05
Speaker
is I've taken on clients that I've actually never met.
00:04:08
Speaker
And that's extraordinary.
00:04:10
Speaker
I've edited their books.
00:04:12
Speaker
I've sold their books.
00:04:13
Speaker
I've met them for the first time.
00:04:14
Speaker
And I've never, ever met them.
00:04:16
Speaker
And I'm meeting them now.
00:04:19
Speaker
And, you know, it's testament to them and to the editors and to everybody that it doesn't feel like we haven't met.
00:04:28
Speaker
Does that sound weird?
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:30
Speaker
But I mean, when you're editing someone's book, that's a very crucial time.
00:04:35
Speaker
It's when an author approaches you, it's a very vulnerable time.
00:04:39
Speaker
And yeah, I have taken on authors throughout the pandemic and never met them.
00:04:45
Speaker
And that's surreal.
00:04:47
Speaker
But actually, I think that kind of says how when you really click and you connect and you're like, this is what we want to do for your writing future.
00:04:55
Speaker
The fact that you can do that online and do that well and feel as strong as if we have met.
00:05:00
Speaker
Now, of course, I must take them out to lunch and meet them.
00:05:04
Speaker
But I think that's been the most incredible experience of this time.
Hybrid Book Launches
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's really interesting.
00:05:11
Speaker
Do you think that...
00:05:13
Speaker
It sounds like you're very, you've sort of surprised at how comfortable you were with that process.
00:05:18
Speaker
Do you think that that would open you up to maybe taking on authors from sort of further afield?
00:05:25
Speaker
A hundred percent.
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:26
Speaker
And most importantly, I think also it would make the authors themselves feel
00:05:31
Speaker
more comfortable with that process because we're all getting used to, you know, these platforms like Zoom where it does, you know, work.
00:05:38
Speaker
I mean, I think in many ways it's important to have an agent that represents you in your home market, as we call it, you know, because it does give you that extra support.
00:05:49
Speaker
And I think that's important, but I would not, you know, that would not be
00:05:55
Speaker
You know, I think in special circumstances that would work.
00:05:59
Speaker
But absolutely, I think what you're trying to say is, does the world feel smaller?
00:06:04
Speaker
And I would say, yes, it does.
00:06:05
Speaker
It does feel smaller.
00:06:07
Speaker
And that is quite an incredible thing.
00:06:11
Speaker
thing to have achieved.
00:06:11
Speaker
I mean, it's always been at our fingertips, right?
00:06:13
Speaker
We've always had the opportunity to do it, but now we are actually doing it.
00:06:17
Speaker
And so, yes, I think it does make the world feel smaller.
00:06:21
Speaker
And I think it does make people feel more connected.
00:06:23
Speaker
I've noticed in author events, they're reaching out around the world.
00:06:28
Speaker
You know, I've given talks to authors around the world, you know, and suddenly from, you
00:06:34
Speaker
you know, say a few people that can make it to London to actually hear me speak, you know, where I'm now talking about, you know, I'm admitting hundreds of people on a talk to listen to me, which is terrifying, but also wonderful.
00:06:45
Speaker
So yes, the world feels smaller.
00:06:47
Speaker
And yes, it feels more accessible.
00:06:49
Speaker
And yes, I think agents and the publishing industry as a whole has grown as a result of that.
00:06:55
Speaker
That's brilliant.
00:06:57
Speaker
And you're so right in terms of people have been doing these online book launches.
00:07:03
Speaker
A friend of mine actually, her book comes out soon.
00:07:06
Speaker
And she's doing a physical launch now that we can again, as you would have done in the before times.
00:07:12
Speaker
But she's also doing an online Zoom kind of collaborative get together.
00:07:17
Speaker
And that's just,
Collaborative Work Environment
00:07:18
Speaker
it just makes it so accessible for so many more people who wouldn't, who wouldn't otherwise be there.
00:07:22
Speaker
So silver linings.
00:07:23
Speaker
Exactly.
00:07:23
Speaker
And I've gone to talks to publishers around the world where, okay, it might be 8pm at night, but I'm listening to what that, you know, I'm listening to what they're, it's, it's all opened up.
00:07:33
Speaker
It's, it's allowed agents to see international publishers and it's allowed authors to access it.
00:07:38
Speaker
agents and to access their readers around the world.
00:07:41
Speaker
And it's kind of mind blowing that it wasn't more like this before to some degree.
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:47
Speaker
I think it's the same across a lot of industries is with the sort of, with a nudge, it turns out that we can do a lot of things that we weren't doing before.
00:07:57
Speaker
So you've signed some new authors this year.
00:08:00
Speaker
How many new authors have you signed?
00:08:03
Speaker
Oh gosh.
00:08:04
Speaker
That many?
00:08:06
Speaker
No, no, not that.
00:08:08
Speaker
I feel I should pull the number out of the hat.
00:08:11
Speaker
But as an agency, we are very boutique.
00:08:15
Speaker
I mean, when I take on authors, I take them on for the whole career.
00:08:19
Speaker
That's my...
00:08:20
Speaker
absolute passion and so we don't take a lot of authors on in general but when we do we stay and we fight together um so i'd probably say because i represent children's books as well so i'd probably say maybe oh gosh somebody's going to check this and i'll get it wrong but i would say probably maybe five something like that yeah yeah yeah throughout the lockdown maybe four four or five across all that i do
00:08:49
Speaker
Okay, that seems pretty reasonable.
00:08:51
Speaker
And so what I'm quite interested in is talking about the differences of lockdown and how it's changed and things like that.
00:08:58
Speaker
Is that a sort of regular number for you?
00:09:01
Speaker
Do you think had there not been lockdown, you would have got as many submissions and possibly signed as many authors?
00:09:09
Speaker
That's a really, really good question.
00:09:12
Speaker
You know,
00:09:13
Speaker
I'm not sure.
00:09:14
Speaker
Possibly not.
00:09:16
Speaker
I mean, actually, because if I look at the submissions inbox, I think people have had a lot more time for writing.
00:09:21
Speaker
And I think as all these things have moved online, people are able to go on to workshops and kind of... Because there's this massive moment where you've written a book and then you're like, now what do I do?
00:09:32
Speaker
And now there are all these kind of online platforms where you can hear speeches from people and it's entirely normal to do the whole thing online.
00:09:40
Speaker
So I would say...
00:09:41
Speaker
I think it's been a blessing, yes.
00:09:43
Speaker
I think it's given people time to
Signing Process and Agency Camaraderie
00:09:45
Speaker
write.
00:09:46
Speaker
I think it's given people time to learn about the industry of books and therefore to know how to approach that industry.
00:09:53
Speaker
So I'd say it's been really, really critical.
00:09:56
Speaker
And, you know, one of the positive things to come out from such a really, really tough and complex situation is
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:05
Speaker
Hobby craft has gone up generally.
00:10:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:07
Speaker
Knitting and all that kind of stuff.
00:10:10
Speaker
But, um, so as you were saying, it is just you and, and Caroline.
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:14
Speaker
At the agency.
00:10:16
Speaker
How closely do you guys work with each other?
00:10:18
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:10:18
Speaker
Super close.
00:10:21
Speaker
I think I think to be honest with you, that's the thing I love.
00:10:25
Speaker
I love the most about it is that, you know, when I receive a submission that I love, I'll go, oh, my gosh, everybody, you know, has like sent it to Caroline.
00:10:32
Speaker
I'll send it to to the team.
00:10:34
Speaker
And then and then honestly, there's just this wave of energy.
00:10:38
Speaker
I mean, I say the team, you know, the kind of four of us, you know, and that's really massive.
00:10:44
Speaker
And I think that's part of the joys of working there, actually, is that there's such friendship and care and, you know, sharing of people
00:10:55
Speaker
of what's of what we've discovered or or of what's happening and there's a lot of teamwork there and oh hugely we work super close together and I'll tell you what that has meant the world to me in in lockdown when I'm sitting in my kitchen um you know with the cat jumping on the laptop and you know just and there's been a like a kind of increase in emails because teams are disparate so when one person might have
00:11:21
Speaker
yelled to someone across the table.
00:11:23
Speaker
Now it's all in an email.
00:11:25
Speaker
So I've just valued that
00:11:28
Speaker
camaraderie more than anything but yeah we're a total total team I mean you know we have our list and we have our tastes and and we nurture them but I mean absolutely I think it's that collaborative approach that that made me feel so excited when I first joined as you know as Caroline's assistant and I think that's the thing that we've kept going and so no we're very much a team
00:11:52
Speaker
Although, you know, we have our lists and we have our authors.
00:11:56
Speaker
And if we're ever up against each other in a prize of one of our authors, then it's like, well, I think mine should win.
00:12:01
Speaker
Or, you know, it's, you know, there's a clear line at that point, which is why we don't know what to do with this nomination, because we're both on it this time.
00:12:11
Speaker
Whoever wins it, you win it together.
Educating Authors on the Industry
00:12:13
Speaker
Exactly.
00:12:15
Speaker
Have you ever received a submission, read it, and then thought, this is better for Caroline and given it to her or vice versa?
00:12:24
Speaker
Um, I think absolutely.
00:12:26
Speaker
That's something that, that we have probably talked about in the past, you know, um, although to be honest with you, our tastes are super similar.
00:12:35
Speaker
Um, if that is actually another thing, like I think when you, when you're thinking of being an agent and you want to join an agency, you know, you've got to think about, is it reflective or is there space for you to develop what you love?
00:12:47
Speaker
And so, um, I think like both Caroline and I adore sagas.
00:12:51
Speaker
We love historical sagas.
00:12:53
Speaker
And we also have this love for like, you know, contemporary women's fiction in a more kind of commercial vein.
00:13:02
Speaker
I think I'd love to kind of push it a bit more.
00:13:05
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:13:06
Speaker
But yes, I've had it when Caroline sort of sent me an email going, I just wonder if this might be, you know, more up your street.
00:13:13
Speaker
But again, I think you have to have that similar taste as well in some regards.
00:13:18
Speaker
I don't know if that answers the question.
00:13:20
Speaker
Well, yeah.
00:13:21
Speaker
I mean, it sounds like none springs to mind, right?
00:13:25
Speaker
There's never been a moment when you've got something and thought, oh my God, this is perfect for Caroline and she would represent this better.
00:13:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:31
Speaker
But I would if I felt I would, we would, you know what I mean?
00:13:35
Speaker
I've heard about that happening in...
00:13:37
Speaker
generally bigger agencies where people represent specific genres that are different.
00:13:43
Speaker
And on from that, when you guys receive a submission, do you, well, you've said that you get very excited when you want to, you know, and you get her, but is there a sign off thing where it's like, you might be super excited about something, but you have to run it by Caroline.
00:14:00
Speaker
And if she says no, then it doesn't sign it.
00:14:02
Speaker
No.
00:14:03
Speaker
One of you can just take something.
00:14:04
Speaker
A hundred percent.
00:14:05
Speaker
I mean, if I absolutely adore it, I'm, you know, I'm on, you know, I'll be reading it all night.
00:14:13
Speaker
That's it.
00:14:14
Speaker
The email's gone.
00:14:15
Speaker
You know, it's like, I need to, I need to let this author know right away.
00:14:19
Speaker
And, and then I'll probably share the exciting news with Caroline, but no way.
00:14:24
Speaker
No, I don't think, I think that, that, that would be like,
00:14:28
Speaker
No, that just wouldn't happen.
00:14:30
Speaker
I think she'd just be like, I see something.
00:14:32
Speaker
And it's also, you know, so much of this is about subjective tastes and all sorts of things.
00:14:38
Speaker
And you've got to go with your gut.
00:14:40
Speaker
You've got to go with your gut.
00:14:41
Speaker
Going against your gut as an author or anyone in the industry, you know.
00:14:46
Speaker
I just think is a big, big mistake.
00:14:48
Speaker
And I would, I just couldn't do that to myself.
00:14:51
Speaker
You know, I roll with it.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:54
Speaker
Well, that's, that sounds great that you have that sort of faith and trust in each other.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:57
Speaker
Just know that like, you know, even if you read something and you were like, well, you know, I didn't get that spark from it, but if you, but if you think it's a goer, then let's go.
00:15:05
Speaker
A hundred percent.
00:15:06
Speaker
One hundred percent.
00:15:08
Speaker
And speaking of the industry, you've, um, as you say, you, you, since lockdown, you've done some talks and things online.
00:15:15
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:15:16
Speaker
And previously you've done events with writing societies, agent parties, live panels, one-on-ones, that kind of stuff.
00:15:24
Speaker
Which of those sort of formats and events do you think you get the most out of as an agent?
00:15:30
Speaker
You know, I have been on a campaign to run around.
00:15:35
Speaker
I call it my campaign to, I lift the veil on the business of books.
00:15:40
Speaker
That's literally what I say at my talks, to talk openly.
00:15:45
Speaker
And when I give my talks,
00:15:47
Speaker
I, you know, lots and lots of people approached me saying, could you do a session on how to write a submission letter?
00:15:53
Speaker
And I said, yes, but I will also do a session on the business of books and what an agent is and how it happens.
00:16:00
Speaker
And I'll go through like key clauses in the contract.
00:16:03
Speaker
I talk about the acquisitions process.
00:16:06
Speaker
I talk about, you know, the market.
00:16:07
Speaker
I talk about because I feel there has to be, and I feel passionately about this, a really healthy relationship between creativity and business.
00:16:17
Speaker
And I think that's the crucial thing for unagented authors or authors that are just starting out to just kind of know what is this business?
00:16:26
Speaker
Because, you know, these books and money should go hand in hand in a healthier way.
00:16:33
Speaker
And I think it's really important to do that.
00:16:35
Speaker
So for me, when I give these talks,
00:16:37
Speaker
My focus really is to honestly just, like I said, lift the veil and be transparent and say, this is what it looks like and step inside.
Author-Agent Relationships
00:16:49
Speaker
And I always insist, if I can, I don't always get the time slots to be able to talk about books and the business and contracts and money and strategizing and everything.
00:17:00
Speaker
and all the ways that you can do that, whether it's under a pseudonym, writing for a different genre, or all this kind of stuff, because why write to an agent if you're not even sure what they should be doing?
00:17:11
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:17:12
Speaker
And then after that, once I've really talked about all of that and put it into context, then I start the submissions letter workshop, because then it all clicks into place and you understand why, for example, in our agency,
00:17:27
Speaker
Do we ask for a three line pitch?
00:17:29
Speaker
So I literally explain how that pitch is used and how it can be used by the agent to pitch to the editor, for the editor, to the sales teams or acquisitions teams and how eventually it ends up on the back of the book.
00:17:43
Speaker
So that this doesn't, you know, so that the submission letter is a tool and you're understanding how it's being used.
00:17:48
Speaker
So for me, the passion really comes from in these workshops is just being able to really share knowledge and connect.
00:17:56
Speaker
Because, you know, I didn't know what a literary agent was.
00:18:02
Speaker
you know?
00:18:02
Speaker
And, and it wasn't until I knew what a literary agent was and I went out and I got curious about it that I even realized I wanted to be one.
00:18:10
Speaker
And it's so important that you understand the path in the business of books and you feel in control of that path as much as you can do.
00:18:20
Speaker
And you understand why.
00:18:22
Speaker
So my real aim when I give my talks is to give as much information to authors to make it positive and
00:18:30
Speaker
to energize and to give them the information that they need but you know one of the first things I also say Jamie as I say um yeah but don't forget that one of the key things as a as a literary agent is talent spotter so that is why I'm here you know talk to me submit to me you know write to me that's that's that's one of the key things so hopefully it just takes the anxiety out of like there's one bit that
00:18:53
Speaker
you do know and one bit that you don't know.
00:18:54
Speaker
So that's what I try to do with my workshops is kind of do all of that at once.
00:18:58
Speaker
But of course I'm there to discover talent.
00:19:00
Speaker
I should always be out there discovering talent, but also sharing information.
00:19:05
Speaker
That's really brilliant.
00:19:06
Speaker
And, you know, it's great that you're, that you're leading this campaign to do it.
00:19:12
Speaker
Because I think a lot of writers, I mean, this is kind of when I, some years ago first wrote my first story and then I
00:19:21
Speaker
I had no idea what the industry was, what literary agents was.
00:19:23
Speaker
And I was like, okay, I've got a story.
00:19:25
Speaker
What do I do with it?
00:19:26
Speaker
Right.
00:19:26
Speaker
And then I realized that there's this, it's a complicated thing that you can't really learn from anywhere else.
00:19:33
Speaker
It's not a sort of innate thing that's built into society.
00:19:36
Speaker
And a lot of writers I've met sort of see signing an agent as the sort of, okay, that's it.
00:19:42
Speaker
It's done.
00:19:43
Speaker
And then everything else will sort itself out.
00:19:45
Speaker
Yeah, I say that too.
00:19:47
Speaker
And it's the beginning of another step in the process, finding an agent.
00:19:51
Speaker
And that's really crucial.
00:19:52
Speaker
And choosing your agent is so crucial as well.
00:19:55
Speaker
You know, let's go back a step.
00:19:57
Speaker
So I totally agree with you.
00:19:59
Speaker
And I just think that sharing that information is
00:20:02
Speaker
to empower people to have the knowledge to understand how it works actually a you know gives them knowledge that they need and so they know the journey they're about to go on or some parts of it at least something in their backpack um and then secondly i really do truly believe that it makes for a really really positive and empowered submission letter when you do write to an agent because you know and and you know there are things that you want and
00:20:29
Speaker
There are things that you want to give to the agent as well.
00:20:32
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:20:33
Speaker
Yes.
Agent Rivalries and Gut Feelings
00:20:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:35
Speaker
Because it's a mutual relationship.
00:20:36
Speaker
It is.
00:20:36
Speaker
It's a mutual relationship.
00:20:38
Speaker
The gatekeeper analogy, I know it feels like that from the submissions inbox, but I always say again in my talks, and this comes up again and again and again, and I say I'm going to mention the dreaded cup of coffee because that's what I want to feel when I read the submissions letter, that I could have a cup of coffee with this person and that they could trust me and I could trust them.
00:20:59
Speaker
It is entirely collaborative and equal.
00:21:01
Speaker
It's
00:21:03
Speaker
in that relationship.
00:21:04
Speaker
And I think sometimes when you're at the beginning, you're looking up and you're thinking, oh my gosh, there are all these things and they're bigger than me.
00:21:10
Speaker
And I think that's why I always want them to say, no, no, no, go out.
00:21:13
Speaker
You know yourself, you know what you're doing, feel strong and submit strong.
00:21:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:20
Speaker
Believe in yourself.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:22
Speaker
Treat yourself as the professional writer that you are.
00:21:25
Speaker
That's one of the things I always say when writing the submissions letter, you know, and that will help you with the tone and you'll know what to do with it then.
00:21:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:35
Speaker
So I have more questions about agenting generally.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:41
Speaker
Is there much rivalry between agents from different agencies?
00:21:45
Speaker
It's a fabulous, you know what it is?
00:21:47
Speaker
I'll tell you what it is.
00:21:49
Speaker
It's the most fabulous kind of rivalry.
00:21:51
Speaker
And of course it is.
00:21:54
Speaker
It's wonderful because we all know each other.
00:21:57
Speaker
We're all really good friends.
00:21:59
Speaker
We all have respect for everything that everyone's doing.
00:22:01
Speaker
And of course there have been moments when an author's pitched something to me and I am thinking of something specific, but I can't give the details.
00:22:08
Speaker
where I was just like, but this sounds amazing.
00:22:10
Speaker
And a really good agent friend of mine was sitting next to me and I was like, no, no, no, but this sounds really, really amazing.
00:22:15
Speaker
I just have to talk to this author more.
00:22:17
Speaker
So do you know what it is?
00:22:18
Speaker
It's quite unique.
00:22:19
Speaker
And I think it's probably something in the creative industries where it's a fabulously, wonderfully friendly, but absolute rivalry.
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah, because I guess everything you do, you need to try and sign the author first.
00:22:34
Speaker
Yes, and I was in an agent auction with six other agents over the pandemic and gruelling, I can tell you.
00:22:44
Speaker
We've also been on the other side.
00:22:46
Speaker
I didn't realize there were auctions for agents.
00:22:50
Speaker
Oh, yes, there were auctions for agents.
00:22:51
Speaker
How does that work?
00:22:52
Speaker
So basically, when a wonderful manuscript comes in,
00:22:56
Speaker
And the author sent something.
00:22:58
Speaker
I've been in a few.
00:23:01
Speaker
And they send it to, you know, say even their selected few agents.
00:23:06
Speaker
And every agent comes back and says, I'd like to meet you.
00:23:09
Speaker
Or in this case, I'd love to have a Zoom.
00:23:12
Speaker
And then you have a Zoom.
00:23:14
Speaker
And then they offer representation to the same author.
00:23:18
Speaker
And it can be kind of all six of you.
00:23:21
Speaker
or 10 of you offering representation to the same author.
00:23:24
Speaker
And then the author's in this predicament where then they have to have maybe a second meeting or a second conversation and they sort of have to decide.
00:23:34
Speaker
So agent auctions happen all the time.
00:23:37
Speaker
I also talk about that a lot when I talk because I'm like, no, no, no, don't worry.
00:23:40
Speaker
We know that feeling too where you're like, oh gosh, I really, really want this.
00:23:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker
That was interesting.
00:23:47
Speaker
I hadn't realized that agent auctions happened in that way.
00:23:50
Speaker
They do.
00:23:52
Speaker
You mentioned that you've taken on about five new authors, added them to your list, which is already quite big.
00:24:02
Speaker
You're always looking to take on more, right?
00:24:03
Speaker
So you're always checking the submissions, you're always reading new stuff.
00:24:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:07
Speaker
And as your list grows, does the rate at which you take on new clients slow or does it just keep on going?
00:24:15
Speaker
Well, I think, I think inevitably as the list grows, you know, I think you, you do become more selective because it's your time.
00:24:26
Speaker
You know, I do everything.
00:24:28
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:24:29
Speaker
I'm, I'm, I'm my first port of call for my authors and that is something I'm not going to sacrifice.
00:24:34
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:24:35
Speaker
Um, so I think it does, but, um,
00:24:42
Speaker
But I think when you absolutely fall for something, you just fight for it.
00:24:47
Speaker
And also, I think I would say...
00:24:50
Speaker
that all authors are at different stages of that process, which is a really kind of staggered process.
00:24:56
Speaker
So I'm not always at the same point with every author.
00:25:00
Speaker
So there is a lot more time than people think.
00:25:03
Speaker
Yes, I think you can start to slow down your list because you're focusing on the authors that you are representing.
00:25:09
Speaker
But I think there will always, always be space for special, special, special projects that you just absolutely have to have.
Career Progression in Publishing
00:25:16
Speaker
And in terms of the workload, I guess what I'm saying is that, you know, every author works differently and they'll be at different stages of the contract, whether they're beginning the book or starting the book or coming to the end of the contract.
00:25:29
Speaker
So, you know, there's it all flows quite well.
00:25:33
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think that makes sense.
00:25:34
Speaker
I think you answered the question.
00:25:35
Speaker
I hope so.
00:25:37
Speaker
I kept up with most of it.
00:25:39
Speaker
So once your list has become, I mean, once you do hit that point and you do start slowing down, is that the sort of natural life cycle of when you might think about getting an assistant in the same way that you became an assistant for Caroline?
00:25:53
Speaker
Well, we do have wonderful, like we've got two assistants at the agency at the moment who really, really kind of support us and they're absolutely fabulous.
00:26:03
Speaker
So we do have that support.
00:26:07
Speaker
So, you know, we have that already.
00:26:09
Speaker
And I think that's crucial to have because, you know, especially with royalty statements.
00:26:14
Speaker
Have you ever been in an agency at royalty period time, Jamie?
00:26:18
Speaker
I don't know.
00:26:19
Speaker
I have not, no.
00:26:20
Speaker
Is it quite a sight to behold?
00:26:22
Speaker
The royalty period is quite a sight to behold because everything is sort of sent in paper, although they've all started to move it digitally a little bit now, but it's quite old fashioned.
00:26:31
Speaker
The entire office is filled with piles and piles of paper.
00:26:37
Speaker
which you can't complain about because if the royalty period has been a lovely successful one, then you would love to have lots of wallpaper.
00:26:43
Speaker
But it is quite, there's a lot of paperwork involved.
00:26:48
Speaker
So, and we have crucial, crucial support and, you know, that is important.
00:26:53
Speaker
So I have to basically say, yes, we have assistants to help us with all of that.
00:26:58
Speaker
And they're just the best.
00:27:00
Speaker
Right.
00:27:01
Speaker
Is that, is that where you started in that, that same role?
00:27:03
Speaker
That's where I started in that same role.
00:27:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:05
Speaker
So that, that's sort of a, that's quite a common career path to then becoming an agent.
00:27:11
Speaker
Starting as an assistant.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yes, I think so.
00:27:14
Speaker
And I mean, I think- Do they have lists, the assistants?
00:27:18
Speaker
Or have they started making lists on their own or not?
00:27:21
Speaker
Well, that depends on the agency, I'd have to say.
00:27:24
Speaker
But I think that really does depend on where you are.
00:27:29
Speaker
But I think you'd have to be working there for a while and really building up that kind of support and- Proving yourself.
00:27:36
Speaker
Proving yourself, right.
00:27:37
Speaker
Exactly.
00:27:37
Speaker
Which can take some time.
00:27:40
Speaker
So, yes, I think it can.
00:27:41
Speaker
I think, you know, but there's other ways through just thinking about, you know, careers in publishing.
00:27:48
Speaker
So you could be an editorial assistant and then you can move up to an assistant editor and then you move up to editor.
00:27:56
Speaker
And then, you know, so there is a clear pathway ahead, probably clearer in working for a publisher than for an agent, depending on the size of the agency.
00:28:06
Speaker
But that basic model applies to both, which is proving yourself, working there, and then sort of building trust with authors, and then maybe getting curious, and then meeting people, and then saying, you know, hey, I've met this person, I've read their manuscript, what do you think?
00:28:21
Speaker
And then everybody goes, wow, you've discovered a talent.
00:28:23
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:28:24
Speaker
And then it's that lovely story of being in a supportive role, but discovering talent.
00:28:31
Speaker
And I think that's really where you want to be.
00:28:35
Speaker
Do you remember the first time you discovered a talent?
00:28:39
Speaker
Yes, I do.
00:28:40
Speaker
I do.
00:28:41
Speaker
It was joyous.
00:28:42
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:28:43
Speaker
There were, there were a few and it, and it felt, yeah, it felt really, really good.
00:28:49
Speaker
And, um, and then of course you can build up and,
00:28:53
Speaker
start, you know, helping, you know, I went to a lot of events and I think I said this last time, but I think that's really crucial to just keep engaging with the authors, go to these events because, because then you become this face, you become this trusted part of the agency or the publishing house.
00:29:12
Speaker
But yes, I do with, with, with a lot of love.
00:29:16
Speaker
It was, yeah.
00:29:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:17
Speaker
A fond memory.
00:29:18
Speaker
A fond memory.
Trends in Romantic Fiction
00:29:19
Speaker
Well, I'm glad.
00:29:19
Speaker
I'm very glad.
00:29:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:21
Speaker
Getting back to the wider industry itself.
00:29:25
Speaker
What's, what are the shifts?
00:29:27
Speaker
What are the, what's popular at the moment?
00:29:29
Speaker
What's becoming oversaturated?
00:29:31
Speaker
What's having a resurgence?
00:29:33
Speaker
In the whole market?
00:29:35
Speaker
The whole market.
00:29:36
Speaker
Wow.
00:29:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:36
Speaker
Across the whole world.
00:29:38
Speaker
No, just keep it local.
00:29:39
Speaker
It's fine.
00:29:42
Speaker
Well, I think in...
00:29:46
Speaker
Well, we could stick to sort of, I could talk about kind of romantic fiction, given that's the RNA's wonderful.
00:29:54
Speaker
Let's go.
00:29:56
Speaker
Shall we start there?
00:29:57
Speaker
So some romantic fiction, I think.
00:30:00
Speaker
Unsurprisingly, everybody wants to escape to Italy or somewhere lovely and fall in love.
00:30:07
Speaker
And maybe, I did check this on Amazon, but I've got an exciting story
00:30:13
Speaker
book coming out with one of my authors um and it's called um and it is on amazon so i can say but yeah you know you had me at halloumi and um and it's just you know and it's by ginger jones and i'm just so excited and i just think that's exactly the feel if i could express it in one moment it's that gorgeous kind of word play where food and love and romance and escapism and
00:30:38
Speaker
is doing really well at the moment.
00:30:39
Speaker
But then, you know, there is another side to things where people are kind of quite excited to be kind of thrilled and kind of scared a little bit.
00:30:50
Speaker
But I think probably the sort of pandemic scary or a virus might be a little bit tricky right now.
00:30:56
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:57
Speaker
So it's got to be the right, it's got to be the right kind of scare.
00:31:01
Speaker
And I think certainly I've noticed for sure, especially,
00:31:07
Speaker
Actually, I was going to say in the children's market, but in the adults and children's market, a lot of Christmas books this year, which I'm so excited about because Christmas is coming early.
00:31:17
Speaker
I'm telling you, the stock is in, you know, um,
00:31:22
Speaker
And I think people are looking for a bit of Christmas magic, having had it cancelled it last year.
00:31:27
Speaker
So you'll probably be thinking a lot of what I'm saying is quite common sense.
00:31:33
Speaker
And I think that's what's, it's not a special trick to know what's happening in there.
00:31:38
Speaker
It's just keeping an ear to the ground and thinking, well, how do I feel?
00:31:41
Speaker
How do I feel as somebody that buys books?
00:31:43
Speaker
I miss Italy.
00:31:45
Speaker
I miss eating wonderful foods all the way around the world.
00:31:50
Speaker
But I think settings are also important.
00:31:52
Speaker
And also coming back to your point about the world feeling smaller, I think publishers are really looking for really global stories, actually, international settings around the world, you know, kind of including in our in other places that we read.
00:32:09
Speaker
So, you know, diversity and inclusivity and all these things are really, really big at the
Book Recommendation and Wrap-up
00:32:14
Speaker
moment.
00:32:14
Speaker
And I think that's that's wonderful.
00:32:17
Speaker
I mean, you nailed it, summed it up.
00:32:20
Speaker
And does that also cover what you personally are looking for?
00:32:23
Speaker
Yes, it does.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:25
Speaker
In the submissions you're a team, you're looking for uplifting, festive, Christmassy, romance, getaway.
00:32:31
Speaker
Don't forget the swillers.
00:32:32
Speaker
Uplifting.
00:32:34
Speaker
Swillers, yeah.
00:32:35
Speaker
It's a meta genre.
00:32:36
Speaker
Exactly.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:38
Speaker
Sci-fi is also doing extraordinarily well at the moment.
00:32:41
Speaker
And I'm really pleased because I've waited for that.
00:32:44
Speaker
And I'd love to build that up on my list.
00:32:47
Speaker
I've seen definitely in, you see a lot of adverts for the new films and TV.
00:32:52
Speaker
There's a lot of big, very serious sci-fi, sort of hearkening back to Asimov, these kinds of intense stuff.
00:33:02
Speaker
Totally agree with you.
00:33:04
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:33:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:05
Speaker
You have to be very clever to write that kind of stuff.
00:33:08
Speaker
I know.
00:33:08
Speaker
I don't know if I'm there.
00:33:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:11
Speaker
Well, normally this would be the point where I would ask you, if you were stranded on Desert Island, what book would you take?
00:33:18
Speaker
But we know what book you would take.
00:33:19
Speaker
You would take A Monster Calls, which is a wonderful book I read on your recommendation and was absolutely blown away by it.
00:33:27
Speaker
So instead, in lieu of asking this question, I'm going to ask you, what is the most impactful book you have read this year?
00:33:37
Speaker
The most impactful book I've read this year.
00:33:39
Speaker
Gosh, I'm so pleased I don't have to answer the desert island question again.
00:33:42
Speaker
That was so tough for me last time.
00:33:44
Speaker
I should have stranded you somewhere else.
00:33:46
Speaker
No, no more.
00:33:47
Speaker
No more.
00:33:48
Speaker
No more.
00:33:49
Speaker
I couldn't bear it.
00:33:50
Speaker
So I think really for me this year, probably like many, many others, it's got to be Maggie O'Farrell's Hamlet.
00:33:59
Speaker
I am such a...
00:34:01
Speaker
Shakespeare fan.
00:34:02
Speaker
I'm a fangirl.
00:34:05
Speaker
But also, you don't need to be a Shakespeare fan to love this.
00:34:10
Speaker
It's just the most beautifully, beautifully written book.
00:34:14
Speaker
And it's basically a sort of really lovely fiction book
00:34:19
Speaker
dramatization of Shakespeare's son.
00:34:24
Speaker
And I can't recommend it enough and I don't want to ruin it for anybody.
00:34:28
Speaker
But if you haven't read it, please do.
00:34:30
Speaker
And the great thing is, is that it is out in paperback.
00:34:33
Speaker
And, you know, but I, this absolutely, yeah, I thought it was the most beautiful thing I'd read all year.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yes, you're not the only person that has given it those kinds of reviews.
00:34:44
Speaker
I've heard nonstop great things about Hamnet and I must get around to reading it.
00:34:49
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:34:50
Speaker
You must.
00:34:51
Speaker
Then I'll be two for two on your recommendation.
00:34:52
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:34:53
Speaker
I love it.
00:34:55
Speaker
Well, thank you so much.
00:34:56
Speaker
Always an inspiration and a joy to speak with you.
00:34:59
Speaker
Such a pleasure.
00:35:00
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me back again.
00:35:02
Speaker
You're welcome anytime.
00:35:03
Speaker
And if anyone listening would like to keep up with Felicity's news and her updates, you can follow her on Twitter at Felicity True.
00:35:11
Speaker
Look out for the picture of the penguin on the phone.
00:35:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:14
Speaker
That's the one.
00:35:15
Speaker
And if you're looking to send your manuscripts, submissions to her or Caroline, head over to the website carolineshelden.co.uk and go through the submission guidelines.
00:35:27
Speaker
You can follow this podcast on Twitter at WritingWrongUK.
00:35:31
Speaker
We post episodes every Monday.
00:35:33
Speaker
Thanks again for dropping by, Felicity.
00:35:35
Speaker
Thank you.
00:35:36
Speaker
I'm so happy that you're getting the recognition for all the brilliant work you've been doing in publishing.
00:35:41
Speaker
Very well earned nomination and best of luck on the day in case I don't see you.
00:35:46
Speaker
Thank you.
00:35:47
Speaker
Thanks to everyone listening and we will catch you next time.