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E186: Anthonette Cayedito
5.2k Plays2 years ago
In the early morning hours of April 6, 1986, 4th-grader Anthonette Cayedito along with her two younger sisters settled into bed after their mom returned home and the babysitter left. By the next morning, Anthonette was gone. In a case with potential sightings, a 911 call, and recollections of an early morning visitor to the home, we are hopeful that, with the right information, this case can be solved.
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Transcript
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Navajo Nation and Anthonette Cayedito Case
00:01:09
Speaker
We've often talked about the lack of attention cases receive when they involve a minority. It seems that most missing people or unsolved cases we hear about revolve around white females. And while those cases definitely deserve attention too, we can't forget about the hundreds of other cases that need media coverage as well. Thankfully, while today's case focuses on a minority girl, her case has received quite a bit of news and media coverage over the years.
00:01:32
Speaker
But it is one that after hearing, I did feel compelled to share with you. Today, we're going to New Mexico to search for answers as to what happened to a nine year old Navajo girl that disappeared from her home one spring night. Together we'll discuss what happened in the hours leading up to her disappearance and the investigation into her whereabouts. But in today's case introduction, I wanted to introduce you to her culture because as you'll come to find out, it plays an important part in her case and in her family's search for answers.
00:01:59
Speaker
According to the Navajo Nation's website, quote, the Navajo Nation extends into the states of Utah, Arizona and New Mexico, covering over 27,000 square miles of unparalleled beauty. In 1923, a tropical government was established to help meet the increasing desires of American oil companies to lease Navajo land for exploration.
00:02:20
Speaker
Navajo government has evolved into the largest and most sophisticated form of American Indian government. The Navajo Nation Council chambers hosts 88 council delegates representing 110 Navajo Nation chapters. Visitors from around the world are intrigued and mystified when they hear the Navajo language. So too were the enemies during World War II. Unknown to many, the Navajo language was used to create a secret code to battle the Japanese. Navajo men were selected to create codes and serve on the front line to overcome
00:02:49
Speaker
and deceive those on the other side of the battlefield. Today, these men are recognized as the famous Navajo code talkers who exemplify the unequaled bravery and patriotism of the Navajo people." Also mystifying is the fact that a nine-year-old girl was snatched from her home in the middle of the night and was literally gone without a trace, despite calls from her family to police, clues left by her in public places, and a visit to a Navajo medicine woman. We still have no idea where she is.
00:03:19
Speaker
This is the case of Anthony Kaidito.
Podcast Hosts and Mission
00:03:56
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:04:15
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive.
Anthonette's Family and Early Life
00:04:29
Speaker
So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:04:33
Speaker
So Alison, a little bit before we get started into this case, it was, so I was like wanting to see, cause I knew she had an unsolved mysteries case and I was wanting to watch the episode and Anthony was with me and I was like, can you search for this? And I knew he would not know how to spell her name.
00:04:51
Speaker
Yeah, you know if I just said it so I was like it's a for a case we I want to cover on the podcast and I started spelling and he was like Is this person's name? Anthony? Oh, no Anthony, is this Anthony? He's thinking I was he's thinking you had some plans for him There are so many times when I was writing this out that I would write Anthony and then have to go back because it's spelled
00:05:21
Speaker
The same except E-T-T-E at the end. Yeah. So, internet was...
00:05:29
Speaker
so special to her family, and her birth was one that was really celebrated in her home. From everything I read, watched, and listened to, it appeared that she was really close with her family, and her family was a tight-knit little group. So it was natural that her mom was excited to welcome a baby girl into the world. And she actually is born on our favorite holiday. Christmas! Yes! Christmas baby! Yes!
00:05:56
Speaker
She was born on December 25th, 1976 to Penny and Anthony, so hence her name. Oh, okay. Now it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Her mother was of the Navajo Nation and her father was of Italian and Hispanic descent. And I posted a photograph for you a little bit below because she is just so cute. She had those dark eyes. I know. She looks just like a little cute, you know, fourth grader. I know.
00:06:24
Speaker
with a little smile. She was the oldest sister to two more little girls, Wendy and Sinada. And I really hope I'm pronouncing that second name correctly. So if I'm not, forgive me, but she was the oldest of three. And she was very much a stereotypical older child. She was like the mother hen with them.
00:06:48
Speaker
She was really close with her sisters because the age gap wasn't too big among the three. But she felt that it was like her duty to kind of take care of them. I did read for reasons I couldn't find in my research that her parents separated eventually after the birth of her youngest sister. So the three were raised by their mom Penny in Gallup, New Mexico. Okay. Well, maybe that's why she kind of felt that
00:07:17
Speaker
You know, motherly. Yeah. That's true. I hadn't really thought about that, but I even read that she would make meals for them, like starting at the age of six. She's really stepping into like this big sister role. Responsible. Yeah. And she would even iron their clothes for them if their mom was too busy. I wouldn't trust my 14 year old with an iron.
00:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, we were just talking about her little sleuthound heaven with something for Patreon, and Allison was like, yeah, I don't trust her to do that. I know. She can do a lot of things, but I know what her limits are. She does too, though, to be fair. She knows she's kind of clumsy. Yeah. And Allison not only was
00:08:04
Speaker
Anthony devoted to her family. She was also devoted to academics. She wanted to succeed in school and she did the very best that she could possibly do in the classroom. She was like a little shining star, you know, one of those kids that make you want to come to school every day to teach.
00:08:22
Speaker
And besides performing well academically, she was also a caring and friendly child who did her best to make others feel included and welcome, which I think, again, just says so much about who she was as this little nine year old human, you know? I know I can't really tell just by looking at a picture, but I feel like I can feel that, you know, that just sweet energy when you look at her picture.
00:08:48
Speaker
And I think a lot of the times older siblings are more like that. You know, they want people to feel included and people to feel loved. I guess that's just something about being an older sibling. She was so, like I said, just freely and caring that those qualities
00:09:08
Speaker
really left an impression on her peers because they remember her as someone who would go out of her way to check on a classmate that looked sad or if she knew somebody was having a bad day at school, she would go over and talk to them and like try to make their day better. So sweet. I know. And they noted that she was concerned for everyone's well-being. Her favorite color was purple. I think it's a good one. Yes, she loved Michael Jackson.
00:09:35
Speaker
Another good one. And she was nicknamed Squirrel. Squirrel! Hello! That's so sweet. Oh, and I've just noticed she had those hair ties in that had the two balls on on those. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The tears I shed in the early 90s.
00:10:01
Speaker
At the time of her case, Anthony was in the fourth grade at Lincoln Elementary School, and her fourth grade year was a really shining year for her. Not only was she excelling academically, as we talked about, she was also starting to display a knack for sports. She had actually won the Presidential Fitness Challenge at Lincoln Elementary School, which is a big deal, I feel like. Wow, yeah. Especially for fourth grader.
00:10:28
Speaker
But above all of that, above the dedication to her academics, the dedication to her family and this newfound interest in sports, Anthony displayed a strong dedication to her faith. And she took part in weekly Bible studies. She went to Sunday school and she was just a very devout person to her religious faith.
Disappearance Night and Initial Search
00:10:48
Speaker
During this time, she was living with her mom and her sisters at 204 Arnold Circle in New Mexico.
00:10:55
Speaker
And on April the 5th, 1986, Anthony's mom, Penny, had met up with some friends at a bar for a night out on the town. She had secured a babysitter for the night so the girls would have someone there to watch them so she could enjoy time with her friends, which I think for parents is important. Yeah. And she's done the responsible thing. She's gotten a babysitter and now, you know,
00:11:19
Speaker
Because I probably as a single parent, she's got a lot of pressures on her. So if she wants to have a night with her friends, nobody should judge. Yeah, I agree. And like you said, she had done the
00:11:34
Speaker
responsible thing. Honestly, probably leaving them with Anthony would have also been responsible. She seems like she really had her stuff together at nine. But she did have an adult there. So she was in no real rush to get home because obviously her girls were looked after. But around midnight, so the wee early morning hours of April 6th. Minutes and two. Yes, minutes into April 6th.
00:11:59
Speaker
She made it home and sent the babysitter, you know, home for the night because she's now there. And much like Tiny Maggie would have been, the trio sisters had not fallen asleep while mom was out. And I'm sure that she was probably like, oh, they'll go to sleep around, you know, nine or 10 o'clock. Right. You'll just have the evening to relax. But no, they were all still awake. Right. Well, they got to make sure mama makes it back. OK. Right. And I just
00:12:29
Speaker
When I was little, this probably says a lot about, I don't know, I probably could be evaluated by somebody. But when I was little, I was very attached to my mom and I would not have been able to sleep if she wasn't home. So maybe it was something similar to that. Yeah.
00:12:49
Speaker
You know, it is what it is. So they played, you know, waited for mom to return. And when she got home, there's a couple of different
00:13:00
Speaker
accounts. So initially I thought that Penny and the three girls stayed up and just kind of played and talked until around three o'clock in the morning, just kind of catching up on what they had done that day. But eventually then everyone went to bed. But then there's also another account of events that the two younger sisters were told to go to bed relatively soon after mom got home and that Penny and Anthony stayed up talking for a while longer.
00:13:30
Speaker
and they went to bed around 3 a.m. okay so either they all stayed up until 3 or mom and anthonette stayed up until 3 right and that might not sound like that big of a detail but when we get to theories it changes things oh okay
00:13:52
Speaker
I read on bizarre and grotesque that that night of April 5th slash early, early, early into April 6th, Antoinette slept with her mother in the bed. And when Penny woke up at seven o'clock that morning, she found that Antoinette was missing. Oh no. So she goes to bed with her and wakes up without her. Wow. That's not a lot of sleep. That's weird. No.
00:14:20
Speaker
But having been up, I would guess that Penny was sleeping pretty heavy. Because if you're staying up until three, I know for me, I don't know why this is, but if I stay up past one o'clock, I will sleep through my alarm. So if something did happen, I imagine she was sleeping pretty heavy.
00:14:48
Speaker
And when she woke up, she does like we've talked about in so many of the cases we've covered that involve children or really almost anybody. She tried not to worry right away because she
00:15:02
Speaker
knew that one of their neighbors was missing a dog. So she was sure that Anthony had gotten up early to help in the search for the neighbor's dog because, you know, she's so caring. She's so friendly that I'm sure if a neighbor was missing a dog that she would have been the first to volunteer to help look. Right.
00:15:21
Speaker
And so that's what Penny is telling herself. You know, she knew they were going to be looking for the, that dog that morning. And so she's like, she has to be helping the neighbors. So she goes and asks, but none of their neighbors had seen Anthony and a search around the neighborhood would turn up nothing as well. And Penny was quoted to say, quote, we went looking for her around the house. Nothing. I didn't start panicking until we checked with all the neighbors went to every house and nobody had seen her in quote.
00:15:53
Speaker
And the search for Anthony was pretty extensive. At first, searching was limited to Penny, their family and friends, because when Penny called to report her missing, the police were like, she's not been gone long enough. Oh, they could have found her if they start looking quicker. I know. And we know those first 24 hours are so important.
00:16:20
Speaker
But I think they told her to wait seven hours or eight hours until the, to call back to report her missing after she'd been gone like eight hours. Now that makes me mad. And so she did. And they finally accepted that missing persons report and began searching for Anthony. The police and Penny's neighbors searched the surrounding foothills, but found no trace of the little nine year old and authorities from the beginning were nearly certain that she had been kidnapped
00:16:48
Speaker
because really what other explanation was there. She loved her family. She was happy at home. She'd never ran away before. So it was unlikely that she had ran away this time. But honestly, initially kidnapping also seems a little strange to me because she's in the bed with her mom and then the next morning she's gone. So how can we...
00:17:10
Speaker
Unless she did go out, I guess, to join the search for a dog and something happened. But, you know, if they're assuming that it's kidnapping, why wait another eight hours? Yeah. So frustrated. I feel like her case, well, there's going to be a lot of frustrating parts in her case. Lovely. Vocalife. Great.
00:17:38
Speaker
As we often say on the show, the day stretched into weeks and then months as everyone continued to search for clues as to what happened to Anthony. While the police did the best they could, or at least I hope they did because I didn't read anything where people were calling it like a botched investigation or anything like that.
00:17:56
Speaker
They were giving Penny little information regarding the disappearance of her daughter because I think they knew little about it. And so there was very little hope that she would come back home alive. And the case of the disappearance of Anthony seemed to have gone cold. So they hear nothing for a while. It was about a year after Anthony's disappearance, police finally had somewhat of a breakthrough.
911 Call and Investigation Developments
00:18:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:23
Speaker
So in 1987 they received a very dramatic phone call that came into the police station and according to Unsolved Mysteries on the other end of the line a very small
00:18:36
Speaker
like tiny voice, a feminine voice, claimed to be Antoinette and told the 911 dispatcher that she was in Albuquerque. But before she could tell the dispatcher exactly where she was, you'll hear, because I'm going to play the audio for you, an unidentified male say, who told you you could use the phone? And then you hear commotion and the call ends.
00:19:01
Speaker
Oh my. So there's some weird like noise at the end of this 9-1-1 costly sounds that I could not find a clip without that on there. So just, you know, know that going in. Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello?
00:19:32
Speaker
Internet, where are you? Internet? Hello? Wow. I don't know. That whole... She does sound... It's almost like she's frantic, because she says it so quick. Like, I'm Antoinette Cayadido. You know, I'm Antoinette. I'm an Albuquerque. But the male voice, when he's...
00:20:02
Speaker
The voice doesn't sound like gruff masculine the way I was expecting, but it was a, who said you could use a phone? You know, like the tone and then that scream, that was not a, oh, I'm in trouble for playing a joke. That was a, I'm scared scream. Yeah. I feel like she, too, almost kind of sounds like she's out of breath. Like she's trying to get in all of this as quickly as she can.
00:20:32
Speaker
Like she knows she's only got a few seconds. Yeah. And I do agree with you. The scream at the end is not like, Oh, you caught me. I'm calling 911. It's like, I'm in trouble. Yeah.
00:20:49
Speaker
Sadly, the dispatcher was not able to keep her on the phone long enough to trace the call. And I read that could take anywhere from 60 seconds to three minutes. Oh my gosh, we need to work on that. That's the next step that emergency services needs to work on is to be able to trace a call in a much shorter time. Yeah. Police did decide after that phone call came in that it was best to let Penny hear the call because, you know, it
00:21:17
Speaker
It does sound like a little girl, you know, like a 10 year old little girl, but they wanted to be sure that this was actually an internet. Well, I mean, maybe she would recognize the male voice.
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's true too. And so they did play the recording for her, and she was certain that that was Antonin on the other line. She said, especially based on the way that she said her name, she knew that that was her daughter. And so that gave them this big sense of hope that she was alive somewhere. This is a year later. So I would think, statistically speaking,
00:21:57
Speaker
if someone who kidnapped a child were going to harm that child, that the harm would come fairly quickly. So yeah, the fact that she's potentially still alive here a year later bodes well, I would think, for the family. And she did tell investigators she didn't recognize the male voice. OK. So you know, we have that little glimmer of hope. But again, the case would go years without any more tips or leads coming in.
00:22:27
Speaker
And so after the case goes several years with nothing really happening, police and the FBI decide that it was time to release some age progression photos of Anthony to see if this would trigger any new leads.
New Leads and Witness Accounts
00:22:39
Speaker
And it did. It worked. Oh, okay.
00:22:42
Speaker
In 1991, so not long after the photos were released, and I posted those down below too for you, it would trigger a new lead for investigators. So a waitress came to the police with a very interesting story. So she told investigators that she was certain she had seen Anthony in the restaurant where she worked. So her story goes a little like this.
00:23:08
Speaker
So this Carson City waitress recalled serving a table that consisted of a man, a woman, and a girl that she says looked to be around 14 or 15, which would be right around the age that Anthony would have been in 1991. She noted that the two adults looked rather unkempt, and she said that it looked like they had maybe been in some type of struggle.
00:23:37
Speaker
if you're bathing your dog and your hair gets unkempt, like that type of struggle. Strangely, she said that as she was taking their orders, the girl seemed to nonchalantly, but intentionally, drop a utensil on the floor, and that she did this a couple of times. And the waitress said each time she would drop the utensil, the waitress would bend down and pick it up for her, and the girl would squeeze her hand when she would hand her back the utensil. So very fine under the table.
00:24:10
Speaker
She said, though, in the moment, she didn't really think anything about that interaction because she was just so busy serving other tables. She didn't really connect the dots that the squeezing was, you know, an attention getter.
00:24:27
Speaker
However, after the man and the woman and the girl left the restaurant and she was cleaning the table, she found a bizarre note. And then that's when she clicks. Oh, maybe they were struggling because they were struggling to get her wherever they were trying to take her. And she had put up a fight, but written on a napkin and placed underneath the girl's plate was a note that read, quote, please help me call the police. Yeah.
00:24:56
Speaker
But sadly, by the time the napkin was discovered, because you know, they don't always clear the tables right away because they're busy. The trio was long gone. Oh my gosh. So now we're wondering, is this the second time that Anthonette has tried to reach out for help to escape these captors? It's so good for her being feisty and like fighting.
00:25:21
Speaker
Yeah, because I feel like so many people would have given up by this point. That's a long time. That is a very long trial.
00:25:30
Speaker
But again, after this lead, the case went cold for a while. That was until the following month when investigators decided to re-interview witnesses that were involved in the case. They spoke to Sister Wendy, who was five at the time, but at the time of the second interview was 10. Okay. Astonishingly, she told police officers that she had witnessed Anthony's abduction from her family home. Oh my gosh. This reminds me of the Jesse Gutierrez case. Mm-hmm.
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00:30:20
Speaker
Now, let me pause. Let me pause here. How old was Wendy at the time? She was five. And she's now asked to remember this five years later. Yes. See? Yeah. Okay. I don't want to completely doubt her because it could be the case that she always remembered it and for some reason didn't tell the truth when she was five.
00:30:51
Speaker
But I know my sleuthound will be like, oh, I remember this happening when I was four or five. And the reason she thinks she remembers is because she's been told that it happened. And that's what's crazy about memory is how, how much it can be influenced. Well, it's so unreliable. Right.
00:31:17
Speaker
And I talk about that too in theories because I think of myself at five. And if I had witnessed something like what we're going to read to talk about that Wendy witnessed, there would have been no way that I would not have went straight to my mother and told her what I saw. Okay. I'm ready. I'm ready to hear what she said.
00:31:40
Speaker
So she says that around three, there was a knock at the door and this knock awoke, Anthony, and Anthony made her way into the living room to answer the door. Now, I know that it was reported that Anthony was asleep with Penny. I did not read if the other two girls were, but I almost feel like for this story to be correct, they had to be, or Wendy was a really light sleeper because how would she have,
00:32:10
Speaker
been there to witness this is I guess where I'm getting hung up. But I guess if Antoinette woke up, she could have too. But then we're posing the question, why didn't Penny wake up? But anyways, we'll get to all that later. And I'm also already questioning, Antoinette is pretty responsible. What does seem out of character for me would be for
00:32:35
Speaker
a nine-year-old antenna to be like, oh, somebody's knocking at the door in the middle of the night. And at 3 a.m., they've just recently gone to sleep. I feel like I'd wake mom up. And yeah, I'm like you. I'm wondering if even at that point they were fully asleep because they're reported to have gone to bed around 3 or 3 30, which would have been right around the same time this happened. Yeah. But like you said,
00:33:05
Speaker
you know, Anthony is that mother hen. She's very responsible. And so Wendy did report that Anthony went to answer the door, but was hesitant. And I'm assuming that whoever was on the other side of the door, since that hesitation, cause she didn't unlock the door right away. And so the person outside said, open up. This is your uncle, Joe. Now,
00:33:31
Speaker
The girls did have an Uncle Joe. Okay. A man named Joe was married to Penny's sister at the time. So thinking it was the real Uncle Joe at the door, Anthony opened the door and according to Wendy, two men then grabbed her older sister and carried her away. She did not go quietly, which again, I think
00:33:58
Speaker
would have woken people up. Yeah. She yelled and screamed according to Wendy and tried to put up a fight, but the two men placed her in the back of a brown van and drove away. And Wendy told police she didn't recognize either of the two men. Now, did she maybe recognize them at age five as you know? Oh, they'd been by the house, but I didn't know their name, but now she had forgotten them at age 10. I don't know. Right.
00:34:24
Speaker
And they did ask her why she didn't come forward sooner with that information, which is what you kind of talked about. And she said that she was just too scared and afraid that she would get in trouble. Now, I get that. And, you know, when I get a really young kid thinking, Oh, if I tell them, they're going to come after me. Right. But if her memory is accurate and I might sleep through my alarm,
00:34:53
Speaker
If I go to bed after one, but if my child is screaming, I don't think I could sleep through that. There's a difference there for me. And I'm pretty sure aren't women. This is like, I'm pretty sure a scientific fact again from the Big Bang Theory. So it can really not be true. But I'm pretty sure aren't women like through evolution.
00:35:21
Speaker
prone to recognizing their child's screams and cries in their sleep. Yeah. So yeah, I would think you would wake up. But you know, it could be too, this really isn't an excuse, but I guess that it could be that Penny may have been drinking some that night too. And then maybe she was like, really? That's true. That is true. I also wonder,
00:35:45
Speaker
If Wendy, I wonder where she was during all of this because I feel like if they're going to kidnap one, why not kidnap two? And was she just peeking around the doorway? That's how they, I know Unsolved Mysteries obviously is
00:36:02
Speaker
actor reenactments or whatever. But that's how they had it in the show, that she was kind of peeking around a bookcase. And I wonder if that's accurate or not, because I think that's interesting too. But we kind of will talk about that in theories as well. OK. Alison, the police did clear the real Uncle Joe, who, as I mentioned before, was married to Penny's sister. But this led them to believe that the abductors knew Anthony's family. Oh, yeah. They obviously know they have an Uncle Joe. Exactly.
00:36:34
Speaker
Interestingly, it's noted in a lot of sources that Penny failed the FBI polygraph test, which we'll talk more about in a little bit, but we know those are subjective. Right. Right. It's like taking it with a grain of salt. Exactly.
00:36:51
Speaker
In 1992, so just a year after those re-interviews, Penny turned to her Navajo heritage and sought the help of a Navajo medicine woman in hopes of learning more about Anthony's disappearance. So Penny and the two daughters went to this woman and this particular Navajo medicine woman was skilled in performing traditional tribal rituals. And in particular, the ceremony that she specialized in was this one that was done in hopes of contacting the spirit of a missing person.
00:37:21
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah.
Theories and Suspicions
00:37:24
Speaker
And according to her through this ceremony, she believed that Anthony was still alive and by this point may have a child. She did say she was being held against her will. She was somewhere in the Southwestern United States. And Penny was amazed that the information provided by the medicine woman and then
00:37:49
Speaker
like investigators as well, were consistent with elements of the detectives investigations. Oh, interesting. So she knew things that not everybody knew. Oh, well, and if Antoinette is an Albuquerque, like that phone call, then even the location is pretty spot on.
00:38:14
Speaker
Penny said, quote, going to the medicine lady gave me a lot of strength and it helps me to know that she is alive. No matter who she's with, they've got to have some compassion, not to hurt another human being as small as she is. End quote. Which like you said, I don't know if compassion is necessarily the word I would use, but there's something going on there because by this point, like you said, statistically, she should have been murdered.
00:38:43
Speaker
investigators and Anthony's family are still searching for her and hope that she is alive. And that brings us to suspects and theories. And over the years, there have been several theories to form as to what happened to Anthony. And I'm going to be anxious to hear what you have to say. I am ready to hear the theories. So this one is really involved. And I hope that
00:39:09
Speaker
It makes sense. So here we go. In this first theory, people believe that her family or someone close to her family abducted Anthony from her home. So her sister, sisters and her mother said that she would never open the door unless it was someone she trusted. And, you know, from the Anthony that we know from the short podcast,
00:39:34
Speaker
We would also be inclined to believe that, you know, she's watching her sisters at like the age of six. She's the mother hen. So many of those things that I think we would all agree that unless it was someone she knew she would not open the door. Right. Alison, the FBI did question all of her family members and all of them were ruled out as suspects. Okay. It is possible though, that Penny knew more about that night than she initially led.
00:40:03
Speaker
people to believe. So of course that failed polygraph is brought up, but you know, we've talked about that a lot. Those are not that reliable. But information has come to light that pushed the police and people familiar with the case to strongly believe that Penny knew what happened to her daughter.
00:40:24
Speaker
Penny did die in 1999. I think she had like cirrhosis and maybe something else. So whatever she knew, if anything, was taken with her to the grave, but that doesn't mean we're not going to discuss those possibilities here, because we are.
00:40:42
Speaker
Some interesting facts were released on a YouTube documentary called Disappeared in Darkness, The Disappearance of Antoinette Cayadido, and the host was a former journalist, Crystal Gutierrez, and through her investigation, it makes me question the validity of a lot of what we've talked about, or what was said at the beginning of
00:41:12
Speaker
search for answers into Anthony's disappearance. So for example, in this documentary, Crystal was supposedly able to obtain records that
00:41:28
Speaker
Throw into question the recollections of the night Penny went to the bar. So things that maybe were not initially reported. According to those reports from this documentary, as Penny was getting ready to go out, so we're now on the night of April 5th, a man knocked on the door because this man has never been named a suspect.
00:41:49
Speaker
I'm going to call him Tom. That is not his real name. Okay. And if you're interested, I'm sure you can find out the real name, but we're going to call him Tom. So Tom knocks on the door and he was led into the house and surprisingly and creepily, I don't even know if that's a word, gave non-year-old Antoinette flowers and a necklace. Yeah, that's a little weird.
00:42:14
Speaker
He also insisted that she sit on his lap while her mother finished getting ready, so presumably while her mom was out of the room.
00:42:31
Speaker
To add to the creep factor, Tom had visited Antonette's house previously. Four days after Antonette went missing, so not initially, which I feel is kind of a red flag, Penny told investigators that Tom had given Antonette flowers on three different occasions leading up to her disappearance. It's interesting to me, and you know, again,
00:43:01
Speaker
I know it's so easy for us to say, Oh, I would have, I would have thought of that right away. But we really, you know, so I don't want to point too many fingers at Penny, but it's interesting to me that she didn't bring up this fact to the police until a family member was speaking about it in the presence of an officer. And then she's like, Oh yeah, he did drop off some flowers. That's a little weird.
00:43:28
Speaker
Per the police report, there are actually multiple witnesses who saw Tom bring flowers to Anthony at the night she went missing. And like I said, I think that is just a vital piece of information. You know, and if they're seeing one another, then I'm sure they've had conversations about her life and her family and all of those things. So, hmm. Yeah.
00:43:58
Speaker
According to Anthony's sisters who were interviewed in this documentary, Tom was never at that house unless he was with a family member or a family friend that we're going to call Bill. Oh, again, not his real name. Okay. And that after
00:44:18
Speaker
So he was never there without Bill until the night of Antoinette's disappearance, and then he comes alone. And after she disappears, neither Tom nor Bill ever visit the house again, which is weird. Okay, that's the biggest red flag to me. Mm-hmm. Because if you're not coming for Antoinette, then why would you stop after Antoinette's gone? Exactly. Because if you're friends with Penny, Penny's still there. Yeah.
00:44:46
Speaker
And she probably needs your friendship more now than she did before. So there's that. Then we also have the amount of knocks and visitors the family home received that night were also brought into question by this documentary. So Anthony's youngest sister, again, I don't know her age for sure, but if she's the youngest and Wendy is five, she can be older than like four. So again, how much are we trusting?
00:45:16
Speaker
what she's saying, but she says that she recalled being told to go to bed while Penny and Anthony stayed up to play cards. And she said that this was really strange. It was very unusual for their mom to send one or two to bed. Right. I will say it did seem a little odd when you said all of them or even just one of them stayed up until three a.m. That's a little late or a little early.
00:45:45
Speaker
you depending on how you want to look at. Furthermore, she recalls that shortly after being put to bed, a person knocked on the family front door. And this is not Uncle Joe, the fake Uncle Joe that we discussed earlier in the case, but rather a man that didn't identify himself, but we now believe to be built. Because the kids would recognize.
00:46:11
Speaker
Well, he knocks and the kids are like, Hey, are we going to open the door? And Penny's like, Nope, just ignore him and he'll go away. So they don't know if they don't know who it is. If it's the family friend that we're calling Bill or who. See, I just, I'm struggling here because I don't want to come off as though I'm not trusting the sisters. Right.
00:46:43
Speaker
I would feel a lot better or stronger in my belief of their memories if both of them were saying the same thing.
00:46:58
Speaker
My struggle is coming in the fact that the middle sister is saying, well, there was a knock. It was at 3 AM and it was Uncle Joe. And the younger sister says, oh, yeah, I heard a knock, but it wasn't Uncle Joe. It was long before that. And it was Bill. And mom said to just ignore. If both sisters remembered,
00:47:23
Speaker
this Bill scenario or the Uncle Joe scenario, then I might be like, okay, this really happened. Well, I do think they both remember the Bill scenario, the knock from Bill. Oh, they do. Okay. Yes. But the issue with this, so if you remember from earlier in the show, Wendy said that it was sometime around 3.30 when
00:47:47
Speaker
the air quotes uncle joe knocked on the door and anthonette was taken but according to police cited in this documentary bill told them that he showed up at penny's house at 330 and knocked on the door to check on penny because they'd gotten into an argument at the bar when no one answered he said he left and went to a friend's house and that story was backed up by the friend so it couldn't be both things because at 330 right
00:48:15
Speaker
Because if Bill knocked on the door between, and there are some, she says, they say the knock came between like 3.30 and 4.30, but most everything says 3.30 for the Uncle Joe knock. So if Bill's knocking around 3 or 3.30, then he should have seen someone claiming to be Uncle Joe. Like he should have seen something. Unless he's the one claiming to be Uncle Joe.
00:48:43
Speaker
Well, he's never been named as a suspect though. Cause I'm thinking, you know, he could have come by earlier, knocked, maybe even heard Penny say just ignore him and he'll go away and eventually does go away, but then he comes back. Yeah. So here's like what you were talking about though. The youngest sister does not remember the second knock. Yeah. So she thinks she just remembers that first lock. She doesn't remember the second knock.
00:49:12
Speaker
There is a Reddit thread, and obviously I know Reddit is like right up there with Wikipedia, but sometimes they have some good things on there. And this is related to this documentary. And the author recalls that Penny originally told investigators that she woke up at three and Anthony was sleeping and then woke back up at seven and Anthony was gone. But when she was re-interviewed, they re-interviewed her in 1994. She mentioned that she heard the knock at the door.
00:49:42
Speaker
And so she says, quote, I told her, meaning Anthony, to go ahead and answer it. I lay there for a period of time, maybe 30 minutes, and Anthony never came back. I got up to see where she was, but I couldn't find her. End quote. Now.
00:50:04
Speaker
This is obviously referring to the Uncle Johnock. And she says, Penny, that the Uncle Johnock came about 30 minutes before it was going to get light outside. Because you know how you can tell daylight's coming, but it's not all the way daylight. Yeah. That's when she says the Uncle Johnock took place. That's not at 3.30. Right. But it would make sense.
00:50:27
Speaker
for her to say 0 at 7, Anthony is gone. But like you said, that is not at 330. No. So the original account to police that throws their timeline off, because if Anthony's kidnappers are knocking at 330, there would be no light beginning to appear anywhere. No. The family friend that Penny ignored, Bill,
00:50:52
Speaker
told police that he knocked around 330 so that same time that Uncle Joe was supposed to have taken place. But he said he didn't see anything out of the ordinary. So again, the timeline is just kind of screwed up at this point. And gosh, that's weird to have told your child, go ahead and answer it and then to stay in bed. Yeah.
00:51:19
Speaker
Hmm. And there's a theory behind that too, that we're going to talk about like right now. Okay. So neither Bill nor Tom have ever been named as suspects. And as I mentioned earlier, Penny failed a polygraph test and she was known to have said both Bill and Tom failed polygraph tests miserably, though I didn't really read that in a lot of places. Um, it was however, on that Reddit thread that I referenced earlier.
00:51:47
Speaker
According to that same documentary, when Penny was re-interviewed in 1994 by the FBI, she asked them point blank, like, what would happen if I told you I was involved with Tom? Oh. And this is what was in supposedly that FBI report. Quote, when advised that the FBI had information that she was directly implicated, Penny stated the words,
00:52:18
Speaker
And I'm going to leave out his name who are going to say Tom. What if I told you Tom and I did this? Would we both go to prison? End quote. So according to this is from Reddit. Right. But it was on this documentary though. Okay. I was just reading this person's commentary on this, but their information was from this documentary. So I watched the documentary. Wow.
00:52:48
Speaker
Wow. Yeah, that doesn't look good. Right. And she said that Anthony had gotten a little hard to handle. She does not look hard to handle. She's taking care of her sisters. And she's nine. So yeah, not like she's 18. She's nine. Yeah. But she said that her and Tom kind of talked about
00:53:18
Speaker
you know, ways that Tom could help and that basically Tom and Bill were like, you know what? I think that Tom needs to be the person to kind of take care of Antoinette. And you mean take care of as in like, I think Tom was like, I'm going to take her. Oh,
00:53:43
Speaker
And I kind of think this might be true because I almost feel like he's trying again, I don't know, but trying to woo her with these flowers. Oh yeah. Come sit on my lap. Yeah. Here's this necklace. Here's these flowers. And I think he's like, she can be mine. And Penny says, where would you take her? And he's like, Oh, you don't need to know that.
00:54:09
Speaker
So a lot of people think that that was that Tom took Anthony and that he was Uncle Joe. Yeah, that makes sense to me. I mean, this theory makes a lot of sense. What's strange, though, is that when the FBI report was turned over to the local police department, they didn't include the interview in like their findings of the investigation. And I thought that was kind of weird. That is weird.
00:54:38
Speaker
especially since she's basically like, what if I told you I did it? Yeah. Yeah. It's strange. That's bizarre to me. So this makes me wonder if perhaps Wendy maybe lied when she was interviewed at the age of 10. So that second interview, because why would she,
00:55:01
Speaker
go back to bed after seeing what, unless like we said, she is scared, but why would she go back to bed after seeing the sister that she loved and cared for and being violently kidnapped? That just to me does not make sense because she's five. So would she be able to rationalize at five that she needed? Can a five-year-old say, oh, I can't say anything because they could come after me. Are we that developed at five or would we go right to our mom? I don't know.
00:55:27
Speaker
Plus we, oh no, she did say that she screamed, didn't she? I was going to say maybe there was some sort of ruse to get Antoinette to go without, you know, much noise, but she remembers Antoinette screaming. Right, because we talked about why did Penny not wake up? Right.
00:55:54
Speaker
Another theory is that a complete stranger abducted, Anthony, theories, their theory, followers of this theory are quick to counter the arguments by people that say, oh, well, then how did they know to say Uncle Joe? Right. Right. Because she had an Uncle Joe.
00:56:13
Speaker
But they argue that Joe is such a common name that they could have just picked a name at random. Like I did Tom or Bill, or you know, we would say Sally for a girl because it's so common that they were just lucky enough to pick a name that was in the family. I don't know if I believe that. No.
00:56:31
Speaker
And then there is another theory that Anthony was taken by someone in her in her family who was involved in drugs. And I think this can almost play into the first theory a little bit and that she may have been killed or placed into sex trafficking. So this theory is solely based on
00:56:51
Speaker
You know, just basically what ifs, because I read a few things about Penny later in life, having turned to drugs to help cope with the loss of Anthony, but I didn't read anything where there were people in her family at the time on drugs. Yeah. So I guess, you know, the theory of sex trafficking, that is a very real possibility.
00:57:20
Speaker
because unfortunately child trafficking is just all too common and it's a lucrative business for these criminals. So some people believe that the anonymous note and that phone call were all pleased for help indicating that Anthony may have been forcefully taken to different locations and forced into this sex trafficking lifestyle.
00:57:43
Speaker
A theory that I kind of thought on my own, and you talked about it briefly too, is what if something happened to her when she was out helping look for this dog? Like why is that not a possibility? Right. Yeah. There's been very real times that I've dreamed things that are, like a lot of times I've dreamed things that I thought was real. So if Wendy's recollection, could that be a dream that she just remembers from when she was little? Oh yeah.
00:58:10
Speaker
The dog thing, I mean, why could that not have been a possibility that she was looking for the dog? Yeah. And then something happened to her. Right. Because Penny's boyfriend at the time told police
00:58:24
Speaker
that he knew Anthony was out looking for the dog the morning she went missing. And if that is the case, then pretty much any theory could be correct. She could have been searching, wandered off from the group, was attacked by a wild animal. They live in New Mexico. She could have been kidnapped by a stranger. She could have been murdered by someone in the woods. Yeah. Any of those are possibilities.
00:58:45
Speaker
And like I know theory one is with a long theory with lots of like twists to the original plot and hopefully it wasn't too confusing to follow along with. But I almost just feel like in my opinion, that's the most plausible theory. I don't know if the timeline of he knocked at this time and he knocked at this time really is super important.
00:59:11
Speaker
Mm-hmm, but I do think like the visits from Tom the flowers. Yeah. Yeah The lap thing all of that. Those are super important details. I think that reveal a lot about His motives. I agree for internet. I
00:59:29
Speaker
And even if her mom wasn't like, oh, Anthony has been giving me a lot of trouble lately. And he's like, oh, I'll help with that. Even if he is, it doesn't even have to be that reason. He could just have been a family friend and is attracted to young girls. And picks this girl to be his next victim or his first victim or whatever. To me, that one is most plausible. What do you think? I would completely agree with that.
00:59:59
Speaker
The biggest red flag to me is when we were talking about how Tom and Bill didn't show their faces in the household after Antoinette disappears. Because that, like I said at the moment, that tells me that they weren't there to see Penny. They were there because Antoinette was there. And so I think it's because of that that I feel like they were somehow involved.
01:00:26
Speaker
And I don't really know how Bill kind of fits into the situation with Tom. That seemed kind of off to me in the research, but, um, like, I don't know that he was really involved necessarily if Tom kidnapped Anthony in that. I just think he may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, but it does seem weird that the visits just stopped from both of them after Anthony went missing. Very.
Case Status and Societal Impact
01:00:55
Speaker
Despite the fact that the FBI has closed the case believing Anthony to be dead, the Gallup Police Department have left the case open and active, hoping that someone with information regarding Anthony will come forward.
01:01:07
Speaker
The case of Anthony remains a haunting mystery etched in the hearts and minds of those who have followed her story. Despite decades of tireless efforts by investigators, the truth surrounding her disappearance remains elusive. The prevailing theories from the connection to her family to the chilling possibility of human trafficking have provided some leads, but have ultimately left more questions than answers. Anthony's mother Penny passed away in 1999. Her father Anthony passed away in 2012.
01:01:35
Speaker
Neither ever knowing what happened to their daughter. Despite the passage of time, there's still hope that the truth about Antoinette can be uncovered. In 1992, a Jane Doe was found in Albuquerque. She was believed to be between the ages of 14 and 18 with native Hispanic or white heritage. Some of her characteristics were rumored to match those of Antoinette, but to this day, we have no idea if Antoinette and that Jane Doe are one and the same.
01:01:59
Speaker
Anthonette's disappearance serves as a reminder of the dark underbelly of society where innocence can be shattered in an instant and the search for justice becomes an uphill battle. The pain and anguish endured by her family and the community are immeasurable. Their hope for resolution forever suspended in a state of uncertainty.
01:02:16
Speaker
But today we hold on to the belief that the truth will one day emerge from the shadows. Perhaps it will be a breakthrough in forensic technology, a long-awaited confession, or an unexpected revelation that cracks the case wide open. Until then, Anthony remains frozen in time, a young girl with a radiant smile forever etched in the collective memory of the community yearning for closure and justice.
01:02:38
Speaker
If you believe you have information related to the disappearance of Anthony, you can contact the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at 1-800-843-5678.
01:02:51
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families.
Conclusion and Call to Action
01:03:16
Speaker
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01:03:20
Speaker
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01:03:44
Speaker
It's love notes with Maggie and Alison. And we have love going out to Amy for telling us that she heard a shout out. This was so cute to us on Trace Evidence podcast who actually used AirPod as a source for their most recent episode, which was...
01:04:02
Speaker
Super cool for us. I know. Yeah, I was super excited. Kind of like Alice's little famous. I know. You know. And we also have love going out to Lauren, Monica, Tracy, Hannah, Marina, Allison, Michaela, and Rob for reaching out to us on social media or for sending us an email. We will eventually respond. We promise just life has been very hectic this past week, but we see you and we love you a lot. So we promise we will get back to you.
01:04:32
Speaker
Yes. In fact, right before we recorded, Maggie and I were like having a vent session about everything going on in our lives. We do also have Bounds of Love for our newest five star review writer. I'm a mommy 23.
01:04:51
Speaker
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01:05:13
Speaker
Thank you for that sweet review. And this is what our second recently who found us through the Mother's Day podcast. Yeah. And you all have some catching up to do because it might be a while before you hear this shout out to you. Plus we have so much love to Philly fan WC who wrote, just found this podcast, well researched and great presentation. Love the background music too. Well,
01:05:37
Speaker
We do have to tell you really fancy that we have since ended the background music. But the good news is that you still have so many episodes to enjoy. That's right. Because now you get to hear us sing at the end of the episodes.
01:05:54
Speaker
We really still do need someone with musical talent to come up with a little ditty that we can play. And to end, we've got more love than you can imagine going out to Shelly, who joined us over on Patreon, where she now gets
01:06:12
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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