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E263: Amina and Belel Kandil
2.3k Plays16 days ago
Labor Day weekend in 2014 was supposed to mean a short trip to Canada for Amina and Belel Kandil with their father, Ahmed, before the celebration of Amina’s 11th birthday on Monday, September 1 and the start of school on the following day. However, as the weekend came to a close, Amina and Belel’s mother--Rebecca Downey-- found that her phone calls were going unanswered. Her daughter’s birthday passed and school began but her ex-husband and her children didn’t return. In fact, they didn’t even go to Canada. And that was just the beginning of Ahmed’s plan.
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
It was supposed to be a routine custody exchange, just a long weekend trip before the start of a new school year. On the evening of August 28, 2014, a mother hugged her two children as they left with their father, something they often did.
00:00:13
Speaker
He promised they'd be back in time for the big sister's birthday and the first day of school, but sadly, the children didn't make it home in time for the anticipated birthday party. Days passed and the mother's calls went unanswered.
00:00:25
Speaker
At first, she thought the father was being difficult, perhaps just ignoring her as a form of control. But when the children didn't show up for school, the situation took a terrifying turn. Authorities soon uncovered the truth. The children had been abducted, vanishing across the globe.
00:00:40
Speaker
The kidnapper? Believed to be the children's father. For nearly a decade, there has been a relentless search navigating bureaucratic red tape, foreign governments, and the crushing uncertainty of not knowing where a desperate mother's children are, or even if they're still alive.
00:00:54
Speaker
Leads have surfaced, but none have brought them home. Where are they now, and how did they disappear so completely? This is a story of a mother's fight against time, borders, and a system that seems stacked against her, one that may never bring the answers she so desperately seeks.
00:01:10
Speaker
This is the story of Amina and Bel-El Kandil.
00:01:48
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement so justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:02:07
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee in Cases Podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive.
00:02:20
Speaker
So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. Lord. If y'all were only here, that took us 15 minutes to get through that introduction. It's okay. We had lots of background noise. It's fine. Here we are We're struggling, but we're here. We got it.
00:02:38
Speaker
So, it was the Thursday before Labor Day weekend in 2014 when Rebecca Downey, the mom from the intro, said goodbye to her two children. And at the time... Amina was 10 and Belle-El was 8. Okay.
00:02:52
Speaker
okay And so, like I said in the intro, this was just a routine custody exchange between Rebecca and the father. So, she really felt fine. There was no, like, you know, nerves or anything when the kids went with the father. Like, she didn't think this would be the last time she would see them. Okay. But it was. Do we know how recently the divorce happened?
00:03:15
Speaker
yeah we get there okay but that so she just has she has no real cause for concern there's no animosity there's i mean well okay not enough to where she would think okay he's gonna take off with them right there some changes in him that we'll talk about but i don't think that he had ever hinted at anything like like she didn't have any clues or suspicion something like this would happen okay So Rebecca and her ex-husband, Ahmed Kandil, shared custody of the kids, and he was taking them on what he claimed would be a four-day trip to Toronto, Canada.
00:03:53
Speaker
So he wants to take them somewhere. Like right before school starts. Okay. So that's typical. That's normal. He's taking a vacation. And responsible. School hasn't started yet. Right. So he assured Rebecca that they would be home in time for Amina's much anticipated birthday party, which was September 1st.
00:04:12
Speaker
And then the first day of school, which was September second But when the birthday party came, they weren't home. And then when the first day of school came and they were nowhere to be found, that's when Rebecca's world came crashing down.
00:04:29
Speaker
See, I would have probably been even more upset that she's not there for her birthday. Yeah. If I'm expecting yeah her to be, i would be like, where is my child? Yeah. Where is my child? So through this process, and we'll dive deeper into that, she did learn the unthinkable she They had actually never gone to Toronto. Instead, he had taken the children on this carefully orchestrated journey that led them very far away from home. So he lied. Yes.
00:04:55
Speaker
He didn't, there was no four-day trip to Toronto even planned. Well, there was a trip, but it definitely wasn't to Toronto. And they definitely were not coming back because they, ah she ends up finding out that they left JFK International Airport Then they went to Ukraine. Then they traveled to Istanbul, Turkey, and then things get fuzzy.
00:05:17
Speaker
Like off the grid. Yeah. Did the kids have any idea? like I'm sure they would have hinted to their mom yeah if they thought anything happening. Yeah, they didn't. I mean, unless they just didn't say anything, which could be a possibility because we're going to talk about that too.
00:05:33
Speaker
Well, but like kids that young, they probably don't even realize anything. Even if they're in an airport, they're not reading the boards to see what plane they're getting on and where they're going. That's true, too.
00:05:46
Speaker
So, Rebecca and Ahmed's story began about a decade before that weekend. So, they met when they were in their late 20s. Rebecca was described by her best friends, or is described as by her best friends, as very determined She was very ambitious and was preparing to start medical school when the two met while he was studying for his MBA in finance. So successful people. Yeah, both of them.
00:06:12
Speaker
Their connection was immediate, built on these, i want to say like superficial interests. They both like sports. They like dancing. They had those mutual aspirations for success.
00:06:24
Speaker
But they had very different backgrounds. So Rebecca was a Christian and Ahmed was a Muslim and he originally originated from Cairo, Egypt.
00:06:35
Speaker
And obviously those things can coexist. We see it all the time. we Yeah. And they believed that theirs would be one where the values... Would align enough that they could build a strong life together.
00:06:48
Speaker
So they get married in 2002, and just nine months after they got married, they welcomed their first child, Amina, in 2003. and Rebecca started medical school just weeks earlier so she's juggling I can't imagine oh yeah I cannot imagine the motherhood the studying no sleeping well yeah because with your first child you don't even know what to expect and then you're like bam no sleep yeah medical school yeah and then in 2006 she gave birth to their son and this was like
00:07:21
Speaker
Right in between her second and third year of medical school. So very hectic lifestyle. Definitely. But also very fulfilling. So she believed that they were building this family on a very strong foundation. And I mean, I feel like at this point you're so stressed out and you've got so much on your plate that any issues would show themselves very quickly. Like small cracks would become big if there are any.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. Because you're already so stressed out anyways and snapping at each other. Right. yeah But their marriage did begin to unravel over time. The 2008 financial crisis hit Ahmed hard. So he lost his job in finance.
00:08:04
Speaker
And then according to those that were really close for him. That kind of seemed to spark this sense that he had lost direction. ah So while Rebecca continued advancing in her medical career, he struggled to find work. And over time, people said that he became more and more withdrawn. So he showed little interest in securing another job. know and Rebecca felt the weight of being the sole para provider for her family.
00:08:31
Speaker
Gosh, that's a lot. And I feel like, and maybe I'm overstepping here in saying this. but I feel like we're still battling even now in 2025.
00:08:44
Speaker
I still don't know if in the majority of marriages there's a balance also at home, even when you have both people working. yeah And so if she's, you know, got medical school and studying and like all of those things, plus the two kids, plus the with pressure of being the sole provider and all of those things oh that would be tough yep and she even said that he smiled less spoke less and grew increasingly rigid in his religious beliefs
00:09:19
Speaker
So by 2013, their differences had become impossible to ignore. So the warmth and partnership that they had once shared was now eroded, replaced by tension, and this growing divide of how they wanted their children to be raised. So here's where we kind of see a really big fracture their, guess, beliefs or their standpoints. so he was becoming more religiously conservative. He had actually enrolled the children into like a Saturday school at the mosque and was pushing them to be stricter in their lifestyle choices.
00:09:53
Speaker
And Rebecca, on the other hand, wanted to maintain this balance with their cultural backgrounds. So, you know, giving them a mix of both. And she felt that that would ensure her children had a freedom to explore their identities beyond these religious boundaries.
00:10:07
Speaker
That he was setting. Yeah. And that is hard because I feel like eat And again, I'm not speaking from experience here. I'm just contemplating.
00:10:20
Speaker
I feel like it's a lot easier for adults to find ways to mesh different religious beliefs But it's when you bring children into it, and maybe those are conversations that they didn't really, really have before beginning a marriage because they found ways to balance. Oh, yeah. then when bring children into it, you want them to understand where you're coming from.
00:10:44
Speaker
So I kind of get where where both of them are coming from here. um so yeah that's
00:10:53
Speaker
Realizing their marriage was no longer sustainable, Rebecca did end up asking for a divorce in June of 2013. The separation was difficult, but she believed that they would be able to co-parent just fine, so she thinks they can kind of get past that.
00:11:10
Speaker
All that other stuff. And they did settle into a shared custody arrangement. Rebecca had the kids for two days a week, while Ahmed had them the other days, and then they split weekends. Okay. So pretty even down the middle.
00:11:22
Speaker
But as time went he made things increasingly difficult. So he resisted Rebecca's involvement in the children's life, using time with them as leverage. So he knew that she was ah full-time working mom.
00:11:36
Speaker
And so she couldn't always fight back because she had a really demanding job. So he kind of used that but to his benefit. That's ah that's a shame. In August of 2013, Ahmed took the kids on a trip to Egypt. Did you know about this trip? Yes. Okay. Yes. Because his family lived in Giza, so just adjacent to Cairo. And during that time, Egypt was going through the Arab Spring.
00:12:01
Speaker
And so that was a really contentious trip. time there and his brother waleed was very involved in these protests in the uprisings and during one of those protests waleed was actually killed and ahmed was with his brother at the time of his oh my gosh where were the kids during that that's what i wanted want to know well his whole family is there so they're with grandparents okay yeah okay they're not there at the protest no i didn't get that impression in my research wow yeah According to Rebecca, when Ahmed returned from his trip, he was very angry and justly so about his brother's death. I mean, any circumstances with a sibling's death, I feel you would be angry.
00:12:43
Speaker
And he became even more militant in his beliefs. So he became more and more interested and more and more involved in Egyptian issues and events. She thinks that this was like his way of finding a purpose again after losing his job.
00:13:00
Speaker
And again, I get that. i yeah Everything about like his reaction, it makes sense to me. And especially if, you know, you were talking about, obviously, any sibling's death is difficult and you would struggle to find purpose after that.
00:13:15
Speaker
But knowing, especially if he supported the same beliefs as his brother, which he clearly did, they were at the protest together, then it becomes very easy to place blame. And again, if his brother was killed by...
00:13:30
Speaker
someone with opposing views, then, i mean, I get why the anger is there. Not that anger or violence are ever the answer, but I can understand. And anger is one of the stages of grief. So, and I mean, it makes sense that he is so mad. In 2014, nearly a year after the two had separated, Ahmed planned a trip to Toronto. Quote, unquote, Toronto. Okay. With Amina and Bel-El to visit...
00:13:59
Speaker
He said, in some of the research, a college alongside with some family over Labor Day weekend. and Don't know how accurate that is. But, anyways, he's planning this trip to Toronto. And he says they'll be back home on Monday the 1st for Mina's 11th birthday. and Okay. Okay.
00:14:17
Speaker
So. So he's taken them on trips before. Yes. They've come home safely. They've come home safely. So again, she has no reason. Also, I feel like if you can successfully take your kids to Giza and Cairo during the best of enough. Then you could take them to Toronto. Then you could take them to Canada. Yeah.
00:14:33
Speaker
On the evening of Thursday, August 28th, the father arrived at Rebecca's house to pick up the kids. And at the time, Amina and Bel-El were sitting on the couch just scrolling through their iPads. So normal kid stuff.
00:14:45
Speaker
When Ahmed knocked, Bel-El grabbed his device, showed him something on the screen very excitedly, and dashed to the car. And that could be bazillion in ten things. Oh, yeah. A high score on a game he was playing. Yeah.
00:14:57
Speaker
When Rebecca gently reminded Amina that it was time to leave, she stood by the front door. Amina gave her mom a hug and two kisses. And Rebecca told her to have a great time and that she looked forward to wishing her a happy birthday when they got back.
00:15:12
Speaker
As she watched Ahmed drive off with Amina and Bel-El, she was unaware that it would be the last time that she would see them. And this is where I feel like if the kids had any sort of clue. Mm-hmm. There would have been some indication when she said, I'm so excited to celebrate your birthday day with you when you get back.
00:15:29
Speaker
And I almost wonder if maybe they knew they weren't going to Toronto, but didn't know the story that their dad had told Rebecca. Like maybe they just, they knew where they were going and they were under the same impression Rebecca knew.
00:15:43
Speaker
But maybe both parties thought they were coming back when they weren't. So you think that they knew they weren't going to Toronto? Yeah, I think they knew they were going to to somewhere the Middle East.
00:15:54
Speaker
Okay. But, I mean, I don't know. But for all we know, he could have said something like, I have a super exciting trip planned. Or a surprise. Oh, yeah. yeah Or, hey, we're going back. I know your mom, you know, might say no, but I know you loved it. Whatever.
00:16:09
Speaker
Yeah. So the following day on Friday, August 29th, Rebecca texted Ahmed expressing her desire to call Amina on her birthday. And he confirmed, oh, you really don't need to. Like, we're going to be back on the 1st. Like, everything's going fine. You'll see her on her birthday. okay Rebecca had no contact with any of them on August 30th or the 31st.
00:16:32
Speaker
On Monday, so the birthday. mean, it's birthday. Yes. She started growing uneasy and she attempted to call them multiple times, but Ahmed does not answer. And so by that point, she's like, they should already be home.
00:16:46
Speaker
Oh. Because, right, he promised. Yeah. And even if they're running late, this is something, if you've got a good co-parenting relationship, you would let the other person know. Yeah. I mean, unless maybe you're saying...
00:16:59
Speaker
Their flight was delayed. He forgot to let me know, and they're in the air now. Oh, okay. know, something like that. Right, right. But she did start to get frustrated and anxious, as I can imagine. And so, Rebecca kept calling from the hospital because she was at she's out of the shift. Okay.
00:17:14
Speaker
But he was unresponsive. So, while this behavior wasn't totally out of character for him, because, like we talked about earlier, here he kind of... took advantage of the fact and that she was a busy working mom at a very demanding job.
00:17:28
Speaker
It did unsettle her. And so she just kind of suspected and tried to pass it off with him being passive aggressive. So deliberately preventing her from speaking with her daughter on her birthday, kind of like a power thing. Right, right.
00:17:42
Speaker
So that night, when they hadn't shown up, she sends Ahmed a text asking him to wish Amina a happy birthday on her behalf. That, too, goes unanswered. I would have already been freaking out. Yes, I was going to say, that's very kind of her. yeah That was her reaction.
00:17:58
Speaker
On Tuesday, September the 2nd, Amina was set to begin middle school, and Bel-El was supposed to return to his elementary school. So, Rebecca wakes up. She reassures herself that They're going to show up to school and everything is going to be fine. Like again, maybe they got delayed. He's just going to drop them off at school. Right. We'll be all right. Which again, if you had a decent co-parenting relationship, you might be like, hey, it's 3 a.m. Our flight was delayed. We just got home. I'm taking the kids to school. Yeah, because I would want to know no matter what time it was. Yeah.
00:18:27
Speaker
But that morning she says, you know what? Just to call the schools, make sure that the kids arrived. But they never did. So now is when she is. hurt she's panicking she's angry yeah all of these things yep at the time rebecca was working at a clinic as the only anesthesiologist on duty so it wasn't possible for her to just immediately immediately leave because she had all of these patients that needed care so she continues to get this feeling of unease and she contacts the police yeah
00:19:04
Speaker
So she also tried calling in the times that she could, hospitals in Toronto. Oh, that's smart. Yeah, because there if I would think there has to be a reason why he hasn't called. Yeah, maybe there was an accident. Yeah, something.
00:19:16
Speaker
So desperate for answers, she reached out to Ahmed's father in Giza, and she asked if he had heard knew where Ahmed and the kids were. And she said his response was very dismissive.
00:19:29
Speaker
ah Like he played ignorant. He didn't have... And he can like didn't show any signs of concern or alarm. And that set off red flags for Yeah. So, it made her suspect that he knew more than he was actually letting on.
00:19:45
Speaker
So, yeah Because, like, if you're saying... I can't find the kids. I can't get a hold of Ahmed. I can't get a hold of the kids. Have you heard from them? I'm really worried. And he's like, I'm sure.
00:19:56
Speaker
I don't know where they are, but I'm sure wherever they are, it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like it may have even come off more dismissive than that. i't i mean, just from the research. yeah
00:20:14
Speaker
So then she says that she needs... some type of like reassurance or lead to follow up on like she needs something to know i guess how she needs to react next okay so determined to find out the truth she called her friend daphne and they had been friends for a really long time since before i think or right around the time that she met ahmed okay and she says hey i'm at work i can't get away can you just swing by ahmed's house okay and see if you notice anything weird or if you know
00:20:47
Speaker
The kids are at home. Sure. said that yeah What's happening? So when Daphne arrived at Ahmed's house, she immediately noticed that the driveway was empty, so there were no cars. Okay. Which if they're still on a trip or something happened, makes sense. Yeah.
00:21:01
Speaker
And no one was home. Again, if they were delayed, makes sense. Okay. However, the windows were blocked, giving the house an eerie abandoned feeling, like you couldn't see. And I don't know if that just means like the curtains were pulled or if...
00:21:14
Speaker
But I feel like I wouldn't use the word blocked. Yeah, that to me says you've like put wood up in the windows are you moved yeah or you've moved furniture in front of all the windows.
00:21:27
Speaker
That would, I would get... A really weird feeling. Well, I do know that the furniture was not blocking the windows because when Daphne walked around back, she spotted the glass door and saw that the curtain had been pulled aside. Okay. And she looks in, there is nothing in the house.
00:21:45
Speaker
It has been emptied. gone everything gone oh okay at this point i would be calling rebecca and i would be like get the police back on the phone get them over here right now yeah oh my goodness whatever you're doing at work i would do yeah can you imagine finding out that everything is gone oh my goodness so and just like you said she really did waste no time calling rebecca she calls her right away of course rebecca is confused. She's devastated beside herself, I guess is what we could say. So it felt that Ahmed had ripped everything away from her and her world is now upside down. um um And she's trying to figure out how to right this mess.
00:22:27
Speaker
So she, just moments after Daphne's call, was called in to help with the patient. But the weight of the situation was overwhelming. And so she's trying to help this patient and tears are streaming down her face.
00:22:41
Speaker
And the surgical team noticed how distressed she was. and ask if she was okay and they remember her saying quote i'm really not i don't know where my kids are oh my gosh i can't imagine doing anything no your mind i gotta go yeah and especially as an anesthesiologist that is so precise and everything anyway so to think ah there's there's no way i could have i would have been like i have to leave yeah you do not want me poking you right now no no When police searched Ahmed's house, they confirmed what Daphne had seen. Everything had been removed and the place had been thoroughly, thoroughly cleaned, which to me would add another yeah level of scaredness, terrifiedness, whatever we want to say.
00:23:24
Speaker
On Friday, September 5th, just eight days after Ahmed had left with the kids, And three days after they were officially reported missing, the James City County Police Department delivered this chilling revelation that we talked about before, that they had uncovered the family's flight records and they did not go towards Canada. Instead, on the 30th, they boarded that plane to Ukraine and then from there to Istanbul.
00:23:51
Speaker
And that discovery left Rebecca both stunned and terrified. Yeah, because she thinks, okay, well, they've traveled before. Now she finds out not only is his house completely cleared out, so she has no idea where they've gone, but now she really has no idea where they've gone because they didn't go where he said they were going to go. Right, and they could be anywhere in the world. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:16
Speaker
Later that September, the FBI took over the case, and federal arrest warrants were issued for Ahmed on two accounts of international parental kidnapping, so one for each child. As part of the investigation, agents combed through his financial record, so they're looking for clues that could lead them to his whereabouts. Yeah, because if he or like if he got currency converted somewhere, what did he get the currency converted to, or different things like that.
00:24:40
Speaker
Their findings, though... As a parent, I don't know if I would be like, okay, or if I'd be like, what? Because they figure out through his credit card records that Ahmed had attended a survivalist training camp.
00:24:55
Speaker
So, think okay, maybe that's just his interest. Yeah, right, exactly. Because we don't know what he was interested in Right, and he was filling his time with other things. And that he had visited a gun club multiple times to learn how to shoot again.
00:25:09
Speaker
Okay, I feel like men, rugged men may want to do those things. and And if he did, I don't know what he was planning in his head, but you know, if he's really wanting to get revenge for his brother's death and he's thinking about those sorts of things, I guess that could explain it. Maybe. i don't know.
00:25:27
Speaker
Rebecca was shocked by this realization that he had done the survivalist training camp and was learning to shoot because she said during their time together, he had never really... Okay. That, mm-mm.
00:25:41
Speaker
perspective i guess had kind of shifted a little bit fbi special agent stay sullivan explained that the type of survival training that he took would be particularly useful for someone trying to cross borders undetected or live off the gri okay that Yeah, that's different than like, okay, if I got... Here's how you start a fire. Right, right. Here are the mushrooms you can eat. Here are the ones not to eat. Here are the berries that are good. Yeah. that really is scary.
00:26:12
Speaker
And I get if he was more of a pacifist when they were married, why that would also be concerning. If he's like, nope, if all of a sudden you... if Your whole marriage, you were like, I don't want to touch a gun. I don't. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, you're going to learn how to shoot.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah. Additionally, he had purchased various types of camping gear. So, sleeping bags, children's boots. Children's boots? All of which he had shipped overseas before his departure. Oh, this was a long time coming He had been planning this. In fact, Agent Sullivan said that it was a, quote, well-oiled plan. So, this wasn't spontaneous.
00:26:50
Speaker
He had meticulously planned this escape. Wow. So desperate again for any signs of her children, Rebecca repeatedly checked Amina's email account. That's smart. To see if she had access to her email.
00:27:01
Speaker
Then in December of 2014, she made a chilling discovery. Amina had actually used her iPad to check her email. So now they're able to try it track that IP address. But she's very disappointed when she learns that they're in a providence in southern Turkey.
00:27:18
Speaker
And this realization sent a new wave of fear through her because that region borders Syria, which is very close to an active war Oh, my gosh. So, again, I think that survival training and they're going across borders.
00:27:34
Speaker
I don't know why, though. I just don't understand why anybody would take your... Why would you take your children... If anything, I can understand if you're moving away from active war zones as a means of protecting your children. Right. Like, if if they lived in this dangerous area and he left with them to move to a safer place. he ordered boots and sleeping bags because they're trying to flee. Correct.
00:27:59
Speaker
I get that. But when you're going from safety to a dangerous zone, I don't... Wow. So then she starts thinking the worst. Rebecca does. She's like, did Ahmed join some type of militia? Right. Some group. Had he pulled Amina and Bel-El into this? Was he putting them in danger? and the FBI admits that they really had no idea where they had gone or whether he had maybe created new identities for himself and the kids. So they're virtually untraceable at this point.
00:28:33
Speaker
gosh because i mean you think about it i don't know what border security looks like in some of these other countries i only really know in the u.s because we're in the u.s i think part of the problem in this region of the world is that certain parts of the border may be controlled by the military but then certain parts of the border may be controlled by like gangs oh so you pay enough money and you can cross yeah whether you have documentation or not or if you your beliefs align a certain way then you may be killed or you may be allowed to cross okay but yeah money is basically that's your passport yeah like a fictional like historical fiction realistic fiction i've read right and some research i've done that's pretty much your passport is money
00:29:19
Speaker
But again, she is determined to find her children. So she actually hired three different private investigators and reached out to congressmen and senators for help. She has created webpages. She's pleading for information about their whereabouts. She's now on TikTok.
00:29:32
Speaker
So for a long time, though, nothing substantial surfaced until about a year after abduction. Because on the 30th of September in 2015, she received an email with a subject line, kids are okay, from Ahmed.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yep. So a year, a year after the abduction, he feels the need to just send an email and say, kids are fine. Yep. Yep. And did he say anything else? Well, this was the message. So he said, just wanted to let you know that they are doing well and great. We live on a small farm and they're loving it.
00:30:05
Speaker
They've got all kinds of animals and it's keeping them busy. I understand you must be angry at me, but you left me no other choice. I knew long before you asked for divorce that it was coming and I wasn't going to wait until you found a job somewhere and took full custody of them.
00:30:19
Speaker
So once they're old enough and can distinguish right from wrong, they'll contact you. And at the right age, they can decide where they want to live. No. Okay. First of all, must be angry with me.
00:30:31
Speaker
Understatement. yes Yes. Number one. So he's basically like, well, I know once you are fully done with like your residency and all of that stuff you'll probably want to move them elsewhere so i'm jumping you know i'm getting in front of you basically and taking them before you can take them from me and then what's he mean by when they're old enough then they can talk at the right age who's determining that well here is my thoughts on this so obviously you know just like us rebecca had these emotions of both relief <unk> are all there okay okay and then
00:31:07
Speaker
extreme anger Yes. So, she was grateful to hear that they were alive. Yes. um But, to me, I think this email makes it very clear that Ahmed is manipulating them. So, it's different than saying, like, if Anthony and I, no, don't even want to speak that into existence.
00:31:25
Speaker
If Sarah and Bobby got a divorce and the kids go back and forth and then Sarah's like, when Jane turns, you know, can speak for herself, she can tell us where she wants to live.
00:31:37
Speaker
And like we, they share common beliefs, you know. Yeah. but like He, in this situation, is manipulating them because Rebecca isn't there to put any input in on how they're raised. So he is shaping their thoughts and beliefs.
00:31:53
Speaker
And you're going to choose the parent that you're closer to who understands you more, who's been there for you through troubling times, all of these things. yeah And he has stripped that from Rebecca to even have that ability. Yeah, they don't even have a choice because they don't know her.
00:32:10
Speaker
Ugh. So she feared that by the time they were quote unquote old enough, they would be so deeply influenced that that they would never reach out to her. Makes sense. I get that fear. if he's lying if he lied to her about this destination, who's to say he's not lying to the kids about their mom? Yeah, we have idea. I mean, he could be telling them that she's dead.
00:32:30
Speaker
but yeah we Yeah, we really don't know. Investigators confirmed, though, that the email was authentic and it was sent from Ahmed's known email accounts. Furthermore, it originated from that same region in Turkey where the iPad ip address had been used.
00:32:45
Speaker
Hoping for a breakthrough, Rebecca contacted a Turkish detective who traveled to this providence in search of the kids. He attempted to trace the IP address that was used with the email and his efforts led him to an internet cafe, but beyond that there were no additional leads.
00:33:02
Speaker
Yeah, I just feel like... This is very frustrating. Because you it's at least you know a region, but that's about it. Yeah. And I feel like there's even more frustrations that we'll talk about here in just a bit. But months passed with no new developments.
00:33:18
Speaker
Rebecca endured some of the hardest days of her life, plagued by all this uncertainty. Yeah. But then in 2016, another clue surfaced. Ahmed had applied for an Egyptian ID card, registering his address as his parents' address in Giza.
00:33:33
Speaker
So... More time has passed. So, is he still in Turkey and he's just using that address? Or are they now in Giza? Right. And is an Egyptian ID card like a driver's, like, the same as, like, a driver's license? Maybe.
00:33:49
Speaker
Rebecca suspected that he had fled to Egypt, possibly hiding at a farm owned by his father that was located between Alexandria and Cairo. Okay. Given the reference to farm life in his email, Agent Sullivan believed that the kids might be there as well. Okay. Okay.
00:34:05
Speaker
Rebecca hired another investigator to search for her children in Egypt and to question anyone who may have seen them. Including his family. Yes. But the trail, again, went cold. So then she's like, I'm just going to go to Egypt myself. This is crazy. Like, we know they're there. But basically, the United States was like, you really...
00:34:24
Speaker
do not need to go because you have no legal protection there. Authorities, if his family is well-to-do or connected, they can fabricate any type of reason to detain you. you would have no legal help from the United States. I have always wanted to travel to Egypt, but I have read that it it is, yeah I think there are a lot of travel warnings from the United States about American citizens going there. Well, now we have our own travel warnings, but it's fine. Yeah.
00:34:52
Speaker
Agent Sullivan acknowledged that if he was indeed in Egypt, if Ahmed was indeed in Egypt, ok the situation would be especially difficult. Because Egyptian law, in Egyptian law, there is no law that talks about parental kidnapping. So like if a parent takes the kids, even if it's against the other parents' wishes, it's not...
00:35:15
Speaker
Especially if it's a man. Like criminal behavior, yes. Because in that culture, men have authority over their children. They have authority over their wives. So she would have had no legal avenue to reclaim them. Oh, my gosh. Or even really contact them. Oh, that's sad.
00:35:30
Speaker
So Daphne, the friend, struggled to understand why the children hadn't reached out to Rebecca. She speculated that Ahmed might have told them their mother had died or perhaps he had cut off their Internet access entirely. Maybe they're somewhere so remote that...
00:35:44
Speaker
That they can't contact her. But she couldn't imagine why they hadn't tried to contact this mother that they had adored and that she had also adored them. Right. Because at some point, your kids are going to be like, can I call mom? Right.
00:36:01
Speaker
Right. Especially if they didn't know, even if they even if they knew that they were going to a different place than Canada. I'm sure they weren't thinking that that they would have gone for years. yeah Or maybe they did. and maybe this, like, brainwashing was a whole new level that we hadn't thought about. I don't know. But I don't know.
00:36:20
Speaker
According to Unsolved Mysteries, Rebecca says that she often dreams about Amina and Bel-El, and in some of her dreams, they're in danger, and she fights to reach them. But that in other dreams, they're just together, doing things that they loved. And in those moments, they feel alive to her and close to her.
00:36:36
Speaker
So she says that she cherishes those dreams because for a little while, her kids are back with her. my gosh, that's heartbreaking. Yes. Not having Amina and Bel-El in her life is an unbearable loss. One that is way too painful to confront constantly. So to cope with that, she actually writes in a journal to them every day as a way to express her love and to kind of stay connected to them. mean, this is heartbreaking. I hope that as they get older, they'll see all of these pleas that she has made on social media
00:37:07
Speaker
That they'll hear something like this, that one day they can read these journals and know that no matter what anybody's assuming that, you know, bad things have been said, that they would know that none of those things are true, that she's been searching for them this whole time. And I don't know what kind of censorship is common with or if there is any censorship.
00:37:30
Speaker
in egypt that would maybe prevent them from seeing like her tiktoks or this unsolved mysteries case or podcasts you know that type of thing i don't know agent solomon admitted that the case personally weighs on her because she said she deeply sympathizes with rebecca knowing that she has searched tirelessly only to meet Dead end after dead end.
00:37:51
Speaker
And she expressed that Amina and Bel-El deserve to know their mother and the mother that truly loved loves them. And no matter how much time passes, Rebecca obviously is never going to stop searching for her kids because she's been doing it for nearly a decade. Chasing all these leaves.
00:38:07
Speaker
She's like not wanting to travel. She's going across all these borders trying to break through this bread tape. She has all these letters, and she's still clinging to hope that one day they'll know the truth. But as the years pass, one questions, do Amina and Bel-El even know their mother is still fighting for them? Oh, my gosh.
00:38:28
Speaker
I'm so glad that you shared this story because, you know, maybe more people hearing about it will then put pressure. Yeah, and it's not a typical one for us because, I mean... But we we we don't know that he's the one who has them now. Right. But the fact that he sent an email that has been verified that says he has the kids with him. Right. Tells us.
00:38:51
Speaker
And I would say it's still unsolved because. We don't know where are. has resolution. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that leads the question to where are they now? And as of today, it is believed that Amina and Bel-El, who would be about 20 and 17, so in my opinion, plenty of their age. of the right um It is believed that they could be living in Alexandria, Cairo, or Giza, Egypt, but wouldn't.
00:39:18
Speaker
Or possibly still in Turkey. So my question, I guess, this probably... doesn't have an easy answer because i'm assuming with the backpacks and the sleeping bags and all the things they cross the borders illegally but if they got noticed that ahmed had applied for egyptian citizenship would they not have also received notice about the kids or are they just living there illegally or remember there's the speculation that he could have oh changed their names and so maybe that's why but then i well i guess that wouldn't alert her but you would still have to
00:39:54
Speaker
apply for these citizenships for these you were made up people i'm also wondering even if they took a different say last name or amina below are those common names common like like say something like that to where if somebody applied for an egyptian id card as amina something else it wouldn't raise any red flags right The FBI continues to search for them and continues their investigation, but there's such a lack of international cooperation that their search is obviously exceedingly difficult. Right.
00:40:29
Speaker
to Despite all these years that passed, Rebecca Downey has not given up hope, and she continues every day to write those letters. goodness. Documenting the life they were forced to leave behind, because she wants them to know that she never stopped searching, and she has never stopped loving them, and she'll never give up.
00:40:44
Speaker
I mean, heartbreaking. Wow. Amina Mbelel Kandil's case is a heartbreaking example of how international parental abduction tears families apart, leaving loved ones stuck in this sort of legal limbo with little hope for answers.
00:40:59
Speaker
If you have any information about their whereabouts or Ahmed Kandil, please contact the FBI's Norfolk Field Office. at 757-455-0100.
00:41:12
Speaker
Rebecca's fight to find her kids shows this unbreakable bond between a mother and her children, but it also highlights serious gaps in international laws that make it nearly impossible to bring abducted children home.
00:41:24
Speaker
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00:41:39
Speaker
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00:41:50
Speaker
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00:42:01
Speaker
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