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E259: The Frog Boys
0 Playsin 4 hours
On March 26, 1991, a public holiday in South Korea, five boys from Daegu—aged 9 to 13—went missing while searching for salamander eggs near Mount Waryong. After missing their taekwondo lesson, their parents initially searched for them, but eventually reported them missing. Unfortunately, police initially dismissed the boys as runaways. Media attention about the lost boys grew, dubbing them the "Frog Boys," and despite a massive search ordered by the president, no trace was found. Hoax calls and inadequate police efforts frustrated the parents. Eventually the boy's fathers even quit their jobs to search nationwide, eventually suspecting a Korean military cover-up as they were followed by intelligence agents.
In 2002, the skeletal remains of all five boys were found on Mount Waryong, showing bullet casings, blunt force injuries, and possible bullet holes, suggesting foul play. Police mishandled the scene and claimed hypothermia, a theory experts rejected. The nearby military base, linked to the casings, was never searched, fueling more theories of military involvement. No arrests have been made, and various lawsuits against the police have failed. In 2015, the statute of limitations was lifted, leaving the case open for new evidence. The parents,who buried their sons' ashes together, are still seeking justice. What happened to the Daegu Frog Boys?
Sources:
Paulo, D. A. (2020, December 22). Intrigue, scandal, heartbreak: The case of South Korea’s missing ‘frog boys.’ CNA. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/cnainsider/intrigue-scandal-heartbreak-case-south-korea-missing-frog-boys-774406
Banks, A. (2019, January 11). The Frog Boys of South Korea — criminally intrigued. Criminally Intrigued. https://www.criminallyintrigued.com/blog/2019/1/6/the-curious-case-of-the-frog-boys
KSIS : What happened to the Frog Boys? (2024, November 13). KSTATION TV. https://kstationtv.com/2024/11/13/ksis-what-happened-to-the-frog-boys/?lang=en
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Transcript
Introduction and Topic Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello Shiver Seekers! Are you ready to follow us into the unknown? I'm Cynthia. I'm Stephanie. And I'm Allison. You have found the Dark Oak.
00:00:12
Speaker
In today's episode, we explore the deaths of five young boys from South Korea. Their deaths are still unexplained. Was it natural, homicide, or a full-on conspiracy?
Charitable Contributions
00:00:27
Speaker
Welcome to The Dark Oak, the mystery podcast with purpose. Each month through our charity called the Branch of Hope Foundation, we give a portion of our proceeds from our Patreon and sponsors to a nonprofit related to the first episode of the month.
00:00:41
Speaker
To find out more, head to our website, thedarkoak.com, or our Instagram, thedarkoakpodcast.
Guest Introduction: Allison from Coffee and Cases
00:00:47
Speaker
And today we are very excited. We have a very special guest with us, Allison from Coffee and Cases.
00:00:54
Speaker
Allison, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. We just recorded an episode presented by Allison, which was incredible. i can't wait for you guys to listen to it.
00:01:07
Speaker
And she referred to us as, what did you say? Podcast twins? Yes. Which I think is totally appropriate. Such a compliment. Stephanie and were just giggling about that. Like she called us twins.
Mission and Background of Coffee and Cases
00:01:21
Speaker
Podcast twins. Well, I've certainly said that before. And Shiver Seekers, you know, Cynthia and I, I mean, we are like the little engine that could here. But Allison and her co-host Maggie have an amazing program and they've been doing this forever.
00:01:38
Speaker
ah for years. They are forging the way. And Cynthia and I are using them as an example of who what we like who we want to be. So when I say we're really excited to have her on our show, we're really excited.
00:01:51
Speaker
Allison, do you want to take a chance you to talk about...
00:01:55
Speaker
No, it's all well deserved. Do you want to talk a little bit about your podcast? Again, they are the Kentucky version of us. Allison and Maggie are just wonderful and you huge advocates for victims, which, you know, here at the Dark Oak, we're we're all about. But kind of tell us a little bit about where you guys come from.
00:02:14
Speaker
Sure. My co-host and i we both began as English teachers who taught in classrooms right beside one another. So we always enjoy reading stories.
00:02:25
Speaker
But, you know, in thinking about teaching our students and finding messages about life and purpose, that's, I think, what really drove us to the stories of...
00:02:37
Speaker
unsolved cases and wanting to fulfill what we felt was our purpose. And that is to help as many people as we can by getting these stories out there. And so we just wanted to become another voice alongside those families to share information, to push for answers and to do what we could.
AdvocacyCon Conference Announcement
00:02:58
Speaker
As teachers, I feel like, you know, we're all about helping society that's And of our goal. And so this was an easy branch off of of what we already felt was our calling. So we're very excited to share cases each week to speak with families and to do collaborations like this one, which help even more to get the word out And I do want to give a little shout out right now. I hope it's okay for a conference that is coming up. If your listeners, I know we've told ours about it, are interested in attending, is a little bit different than CrimeCon, where the focus is more on the podcasters themselves. There's a conference called AdvocacyCon,
00:03:37
Speaker
that is coming up in March. It is in Indianapolis and the focus is on helping families share those stories.
The Story of the Frog Boys: Disappearance
00:03:46
Speaker
So if you're interested in attending a true crime conference, that would be a worthwhile one to attend. Oh, that's fantastic.
00:03:55
Speaker
And we always, as a podcast, really look on ways to, again, advocate for the victims and to not in any way be exp exploitive. How can we help further this story in a positive way?
00:04:08
Speaker
And you and Maggie do that. and and And I believe this conference is going to do the same. So that's wonderful. do too. Yeah. Thank you so much for mentioning that. Yeah. Well, I'm going to go and tell you the story today of the Frog Boys.
00:04:22
Speaker
Is this a case either of you are familiar with? I am not familiar with it. I'm intrigued on how they got the name the Frog Boys. That's a bit peculiar. Well, we'll get there.
00:04:36
Speaker
i was telling Stephanie, this is one that I've heard of, but not super familiar with. So I'm excited because Stephanie always, always brings all the info. Well, unfortunately, this may be one of those cases that ends with more question marks than answers.
00:04:52
Speaker
But these families that I'm going to tell you about are the real deal and they really deserve answers. And i feel really compelled to keep this story out there.
00:05:04
Speaker
So I'll go ahead and get into it. On Tuesday, March 26, 1991, South Korean schools, campuses, and workplaces were closed as it was a public holiday.
00:05:15
Speaker
This day was special as it marked the first local democratic elections held since the fall of the country's military dictatorship, making these elections the first the country had held in 30 years.
00:05:28
Speaker
While adults were occupied casting their votes, many children enjoyed their holiday playing outdoors. This was the case for six children from the city of Daegu. These young boys were all tight friends as their families live closely together in the same village.
00:05:43
Speaker
Their houses, in fact, were so close together, they even formed a little circle. That's cute. The boys often hung out together and played near the paddy field in front of their neighborhood.
00:05:54
Speaker
As one of the boys' fathers would later say, quote, the boys were closer than brothers, end quote. Around 9 a.m., m the friends set out on an adventure to find salamander eggs.
00:06:06
Speaker
The six friends were 13-year-old Chiu Wan Wu, 12-year-old Ho Yong Chu, 11-year-old Yeo Go Kim, 10-year-old Chan In Park, 9-year-old Jong Sik Kim, and 9-year-old Tae Yong Kim.
00:06:25
Speaker
Later in the morning, nine-year-old Tae Rong decided to head back home because he had skipped breakfast. He briefly met back up with the boys, but decided to head home again when they started venturing further away from home.
00:06:38
Speaker
The five boys had a 1 p.m. Taekwondo lesson at the local academy later that day. When they didn't show, the instructors contacted their parents. While this wasn't an immediate cause for alarm for each individual parent, when all five parents learned that their children were missing, it became a much larger issue.
Initial Search and Media Involvement
00:07:01
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense. So it's not like, you know, one boy went to another friend's house. No, they're all missing. And it would not have been unusual because think about it's a holiday. Like everybody's out of their schedule.
00:07:13
Speaker
And again, these boys are all nine to 13 years old. So it wouldn't be unusual for one of them to forget about their Taekwondo lesson when they're out playing outside. so even if it was just one of them, not a big deal. All five, much larger deal.
00:07:28
Speaker
Right. Now, the one who kept going home, was that the younger one? Yeah, he was one of the nine-year-olds. He had gone back for breakfast and picked up a jacket and his mom said, hey, ah don't go too far from home.
00:07:42
Speaker
And so he actually listened to his mom and and headed back. but Leave it to the nine year old to do what he was supposed to do. but Right, exactly. There was still one other nine-year-old that continued with the, quote, big boys.
00:07:56
Speaker
But again, everything I've read about all of these kids is they were really, genuinely good boys. And again, they're just playing outside. and They're not doing anything.
00:08:07
Speaker
They're not troublemakers in any way. Now, after finding out all five were missing, the parents started asking around to see if anybody had seen the boys. The boys were collecting salamater eggs in the stream, and they kind of walked along the stream, checking with other neighbors, checking with other people walking along. Have you seen the boys?
00:08:28
Speaker
Chul Wang's father, Zhong Yu Wu said, quote, a friend told us he'd seen the five boys. He asked them where they were going. The boys replied that they were going to find lizard or salamander eggs. It's kind of caught up in the translation.
00:08:44
Speaker
That's why thought, this observer thought, they were headed up to the mountain, end quote. Now, the mountain he's referring to is Mount Waryong. The mountain, which is really more of a long sloping hill, is only two kilometers or a little over a mile away from where the boys lived.
00:09:02
Speaker
It was decided that the boys most likely followed the stream up the mountain looking for these salamander eggs. The parents of all five boys reported the boys missing to the police later that evening and began searching the mountain for signs of the boys.
00:09:20
Speaker
Unfortunately, the boys' parents found no further clues as to where their children could have gone. And police, occupied by the elections, told the parents that the boys probably wandered off and would just return at some time, insinuating that they were runaways.
Suspicions and Parental Efforts
00:09:39
Speaker
Wow. I mean, it makes sense. Like you said, this is the first Democratic election. They are definitely way more occupied than normal. So I'm curious, did you say whether, did the boys go up the mountain before?
00:09:57
Speaker
Was that a path that they had taken? Do we know? It was not uncommon for people to go up to the mountain. There was a ah large field there. i think it was a little further than the boys would typically go from home.
00:10:11
Speaker
But I think because it was a holiday and the weather was, i mean, relatively nice. It was still pretty chilly, well, at least from Florida standards. But it was a nice day. And so it wouldn't have been unusual for them to go up the mountain a bit.
00:10:26
Speaker
As you can imagine, the insinuation that their children were runaways did not go over well with these parents. That night, Tae Ryong Kim, the father of 11-year-old Yong Gu, said he had a dream about his son. Quote, it was pouring.
00:10:44
Speaker
My son was right outside the door. He peeked inside, but without a word, he was gone. I ran after him calling his name, but he wouldn't even turn back to look. End quote.
00:10:56
Speaker
It just gives you an insight. I have a lot of quotes from the family here because i feel like it really brings home the humanity in this case, and particularly remembering that these are young boys.
00:11:10
Speaker
That quote was heartbreaking. The next day, the police organized a search of both the mountain and the city, looking at empty houses and teen hangouts, but there were no sign of the boys.
00:11:21
Speaker
For days, the parents dedicated all of their time to handing out flyers with children's pictures, conducting searches with volunteers, and trying to contact the media to get more attention on their case. On March 29th, three days after their disappearance, a call came in nine-year-old Jong-Sik's father with information about the children.
00:11:43
Speaker
The caller stated, quote, I have the children. They are all suffering. Two are very ill, end quote. And I see the look Allison's face right now, and that's the exact face I had when I read that message. Chilling.
00:12:00
Speaker
Chilling. And in the way it's said, you don't know the they're all suffering. Are they all suffering because they've injured themselves or this person has done something to them? And that's my first inclination is to read that into it.
00:12:19
Speaker
Truly chill-inducing. Now, after this message, the caller asked for a large sum of money. And of course, the parents, eager to be reunited with their children, went to the designated meeting place with this money. Now, along with police, they did know that they were going, so police were standing by as well.
00:12:36
Speaker
But no one came. No mystery man, no caller. And after waiting for an excruciating hour, they had to face the fact that this call had simply been a hoax. heartbreak all over again.
00:12:50
Speaker
Eventually though, word of the missing children fell into the right hands and five days after their disappearance, the first news broadcast about the boys was aired. Interestingly, news stations didn't like the sound of the word salamander, especially when the word was translated into English.
00:13:08
Speaker
So they changed the narrative to indicate the boys were hunting for frog eggs. Thus, five missing boys became known as the frog boys. I was wondering what happened there because you kept saying salamander. And I thought I thought they were looking for I've literally read they were looking for frog eggs before. So this explains the discrepancy there.
00:13:28
Speaker
I just think it's very interesting. The first few news articles, they said, yeah, that sounds good. Let's go with that. And now this change that doesn't even accurately present what was going on is their identity.
00:13:43
Speaker
I know. Yeah.
00:13:46
Speaker
Within days, the story of the missing frog boys became national news. Jang Joon-yong, a budding journalist at the time, recollected the media coverage.
00:13:57
Speaker
Quote, every life is important, but this case was extraordinary because it was about five kids, end quote. However, the police had developed a reluctancy to help search for the boys.
00:14:11
Speaker
On May 4th, over a month after the boys vanished, the parents participated in a news program called the Square of Public Opinions. The rare nationwide event aired live from the boys' Seong Seo Elementary School.
00:14:27
Speaker
In it, the parents expressed their dissatisfaction with the investigation. They protested, for example, police pamphlets that still labeled the boys as runaways a full month later.
00:14:41
Speaker
During this live event, something very unexpected happened. A call came in from someone claiming to be one of the boys. This call was cut off, but the telephone operator said on the program that it was nine-year-old Zhang Sik sobbing and asking for his mother.
00:15:01
Speaker
Oh, you've broken my heart. Wow. Collectively, the parents of all five boys started screaming and clapping, grasping at any hope that their children were alive.
00:15:14
Speaker
Even if he was in despair, he's still alive. But sickeningly, this call, too, would eventually be found to be a hoax. Oh, my goodness. I do not understand the mentality of people who can do something like that.
00:15:29
Speaker
I absolutely agree with you, Allison. The broadcast did, however, encourage authorities to make more of an effort to find the children. The then president, Ro T. Wu, even made a statement about the case in order to further investigation. three hundred 300,000 police and military troops were mobilized to search for the boys.
00:15:53
Speaker
That's lot. That's lot. $35,000 donations raised. thirty five thousand dollars in donations were raised And for a year, the mountain was searched, with volunteers warming lines to probe the undergrowth as they moved forward.
00:16:09
Speaker
Mount Waryong was estimated to have been searched over 500 times. But for the parents, it was too little too late.
00:16:21
Speaker
Jiang Seo Park, 10-year-old Chen Ying's father, said, quote, the police looked for any evidence they could find, but by then there was no point in searching because there were no traces left.
00:16:34
Speaker
The police were just following orders, so they just pretended to do something. We, the parents, meant nothing to them, end quote. But these parents were not giving up.
00:16:44
Speaker
Collectively, all five fathers quit their jobs, rented a lorry, plastered pictures of the children all over it with words that read, please help find our missing children.
00:16:58
Speaker
And they drove it all over the country. These five men literally picked up their entire lives and drove around in this plastered truck, bringing awareness to their missing children.
00:17:10
Speaker
I feel like that not only shows the level of desperation, but it also shows a lot of faith that their actions will lead to something positive, will lead to finding some sort of clue.
00:17:26
Speaker
Exactly. Park recounts, quote, we could do nothing more. We couldn't get any help from experts. So we handed out pamphlets in public areas. End quote. They just did what they could do.
00:17:37
Speaker
They said, this is what's in our power to do. And we're going to have no regrets. We're doing it. Day after day, the men drove through the streets, handing out pamphlets and providing interviews to reporters.
00:17:52
Speaker
While the men presented composed exterior, inside they were all crumbling apart. 11-year-old Yeong-gu's father's skin slowly took on a pale blue hue as he became addicted to sleeping pills.
00:18:08
Speaker
In a later interview, he said, quote, I was scared that I might encounter my son in my dreams. I felt helpless as a parrot. I couldn't see the point in living anymore, end quote.
Military Involvement Theories
00:18:21
Speaker
The other fathers often turned to alcohol to numb the pain of having lost their sons, but all five continued to press on. year after the boy's disappearance, the men started to notice that reporters were not the only ones taking notes during their media events.
00:18:39
Speaker
Zhu Bong Na, the chairman of the National Organization of Finding Missing Children and Families, was traveling with the five fathers when he started to notice strange attendees at each event.
00:18:51
Speaker
At one event, he casually asked one of these men who they worked for, as in, are you are a reporter or are you representing the media somehow? The man simply took out a card and handed it to Jubong.
00:19:05
Speaker
The card had ah name, ah phone number, and the title of manager, but nothing else. That is ominous. manager. Okay.
00:19:17
Speaker
Of what? Okay. Wait. Very good question. Jubong later said, quote, I saw the same person again at several media events.
00:19:29
Speaker
I later found out that he was from an intelligence agency, end quote. Now, if that doesn't make your hair stand up, I don't know what would. Yeah, this case just took a turn I wasn't expecting.
00:19:43
Speaker
wow The fathers were being followed by men who were recording their movements and their interviews. Ji-ong-seo Park, Chan-in's father, said, quote, They even sent some people to our homes and reported everything to their bosses.
00:19:59
Speaker
Who on earth treats the parents of missing children like this? Instead of suspecting us, they should have been searching for the kids. What they did to us was absurd.
00:20:10
Speaker
So I think the father's takeaway was that somehow they were being suspected of having harmed their children. by I do wonder if...
00:20:21
Speaker
This was, again, some kind of conspiracy if these weren't maybe hired hands to make sure they weren't getting close to the actual assailants.
00:20:33
Speaker
I think that's a good point, Stephanie, because I get why they felt that way. And that was where my mind went. Like, why would somebody from the intelligence agency even be following them unless there was a suspicion that they were involved? But I think you're right. I think that's another possibility.
00:20:49
Speaker
We need to make sure that they don't get close. now And again, not knowing who this manager is managing for, very hard to say. one point, these mystery men said they were protecting the parents, but no one really believed that.
00:21:07
Speaker
With each day they were followed, they began to suspect more and more that the answers to their son's disappearances were still up on Mount Waryong. See, up on Mount Woyang was an army base.
00:21:23
Speaker
To the right of the base was a pond, and above the pond was a shooting range. On the day of the boy's disappearance, Chiu Wan's friend heard a gunshot, and then a scream, and then silence.
00:21:37
Speaker
Police were given this information, but they discounted it and said it was simply a rumor. Suspicion was additionally aroused, at least for the parents, because for all the times Mount Woyong was searched, the military base and shooting range was never searched and the military was never questioned.
00:21:56
Speaker
Hmm. Now, i I do wonder to what extent local police would likely leave a country's military bases alone because they have their own set of laws and procedures and those who are in place to make sure that those laws are followed.
00:22:18
Speaker
And so I do wonder if there was normally an agreement and maybe that's why they didn't question. But after hearing someone say, hey I heard a scream and after a gunshot and then silence and knowing that the boys likely went up on this mountain.
00:22:38
Speaker
feel like that's one of those times where you say, you know what, ah we're going to set aside any sort of boundaries that we normally have and you need to be questioned. The fact that the mountain has been searched five times, I believe you said, and only this one area of it has not been searched.
00:22:59
Speaker
Okay. Can we contact the military base and just ask for permission to take a look around or ask them to do the same thing? That seems reasonable to me.
00:23:11
Speaker
I think it's important to take into account the political climate in Korea at this point, because again, remember, they're just now getting any kind of democracy. And previously they were under dictatorship, which was a military dictatorship.
00:23:26
Speaker
So the military was in charge of everything, including the police departments. So while it was shifting to, again, me more democratic, where the military had to be accountable, if you will, it was still an uncomfortable situation if you're the police force to now go in and start inquiring about military involvement.
00:23:53
Speaker
So I think that kind of clouded some of this too, is nobody's really sure who's in charge or who is accountable to who, or who could be even held responsible.
00:24:05
Speaker
i feel like unfortunately it kind of got caught up a little bit in that. So I do think the police force was a little inept, but think there was a little bit of, of cowardice and maybe rightly so, honestly, to go and interrogate the military. Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker
I can see why that would be intimidating. Absolutely. The fathers, though, were not intimidated by the military. They said, we don't care. We don't care.
00:24:35
Speaker
so they started telling anybody that would listen. I think the military is responsible. And I think they're sending these guys to check us out.
Psychologist's Theory and Excavation
00:24:43
Speaker
And I think they're the ones that are responsible for our son's deaths or disappearance or whatever happened.
00:24:50
Speaker
However, again, in this intimidation situation, even news stations, were hesitant to even publicize. They thought the military might be responsible.
00:25:00
Speaker
And eventually, news stations stopped even covering the cases of the missing boys and wouldn't even do interviews with the fathers because really at this point, that's all the fathers have left to go on.
00:25:12
Speaker
That's kind of like the one stone that hasn't been looked under. And eventually, they just got squelched that's so sad and they're already so helpless quitting their jobs literally just driving around trying to get any shred of help they can and then to not even have a voice anymore It's just I can't even try to put myself in their situation.
00:25:42
Speaker
Additionally, heartbreaking was the condition the fathers found themselves in after two years of driving around their country searching for their sons. All were in debt and all had substance abuse.
00:25:56
Speaker
And honestly, they all needed to return home to take care of their families. So three years after the boys disappeared, the fathers announced that they we were returning home to try to piece together their families, their homes, and their jobs.
00:26:12
Speaker
They needed to try to rebuild. Now, two years after their return home, just as the men were starting to put, again, the pieces of their lives back together, Gong-won, a criminal psychologist and professor who had studied in the United States, claimed that the children were buried in Jong-sik's house because his father, quote, couldn't account for the first three hours on the day the children went missing, end quote.
00:26:42
Speaker
Now, at the time, criminal psychology wasn't very understood in South Korea, so they didn't understand the gray areas that can come from criminal psychology, and the public ate it up.
00:26:55
Speaker
The media went bananas, and so the investigation went forward. According to this professor, he had read about the investigation and had, quote, analyzed all the evidence and footage.
00:27:09
Speaker
end quote And he believed wholeheartedly that Chul Gai Kim, Jong-Sik's father, had killed all five boys and buried them under his house.
00:27:22
Speaker
Now, the other parents adamantly denied that Chul Guy could have done such a thing, but the investigation still continued. Police began by searching the bathroom area, which is located in the back room of his home.
00:27:35
Speaker
And while searching, they found a pair of, quote, children's shoes, end quote. But he has a child. Well, why these shoes were so suspicious, but I couldn't tell you.
00:27:48
Speaker
However, it was enough that investigators literally brought in an excavator to tear up the floor of the house to look for evidence. According to Zhu Bong Na, the chairman of the National Organization of Finding Missing Children and Families, quote, Zhang Sik's father was in agony and people thought Could he really have done all this in three hours?
00:28:13
Speaker
End quote. It just doesn't make any sense. no Maybe they're just in such a hurry two close the case, especially if there is cover up of some sort going on. Maybe they're just in such a hurry to find an answer that any potential, you know, any potential answer is something they want to look more into.
00:28:35
Speaker
Or yeah, what Cynthia said, just to divert attention. Let's just like a magician. This is going on over here. Oh, look over here. Like a smoke and mirrors.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I just find it incredible that this man who literally gave up his job to drive around the country for an entire two years finally comes back and again is is is addicted, you know, has substance abuse issues because of this.
00:29:02
Speaker
And you're going to go and destroy his life and so based on a hunch. The media, of course, was there filming the excavation.
00:29:14
Speaker
And many people had gathered around to watch, including Kim Guy-won, the psychologist who had claimed that he was the killer. And the house was completely turned upside down, basically ruined.
00:29:25
Speaker
There are pictures that I'll share on our social media account. His house has no floor. But guess what they found? Nothing. A big fat nothing.
00:29:37
Speaker
And it's not like people don't understand this. When when the police come in and they do these excavations, they don't pay to have it fixed. Oh, no. Oh, absolutely not.
00:29:49
Speaker
And this was literally demolishing his house. Now, remember, this psychologist is still standing there when they announced they found nothing.
00:30:02
Speaker
So in response, he starts running away from the demolition site, literally like pushing through the crowds. And it becomes like this witch hunt and the crowd starts screaming, get him, get because now they're blaming him.
00:30:17
Speaker
for this disaster that has now ruined this man's life, the town's life, the entire national media attention is on this. So it turns out this guy gets taken into police custody and I'm pretty sure it was just for his own safety. Wow.
00:30:34
Speaker
yeah mean below I mean, I mean, can barely tell you what day it is today, let alone account for every hour of even yesterday. so to not be able to account for three hours...
00:30:51
Speaker
I don't know. None of it made any sense from the beginning for me. Sadly, Zhang Sik's father died of liver cancer just five years later.
00:31:01
Speaker
He was still in his 40s. Many believe his body withered away because of the exhaustion of searching for his son and then being accused of being his murderer. it was all just too much for him.
Discovery of Remains and Investigation Issues
00:31:15
Speaker
so just another ripple effect from these lost boys.
00:31:28
Speaker
On September 26, 2002, a year after death and 11 years after the boy's disappearance, two locals searching for acorns on Mount Woryong discovered skeletal remains.
00:31:44
Speaker
They reported their findings via an anonymous phone call to police. The tangle of bones was found only a few kilometers from the boys' neighborhood in an area of the mountain that had been previously searched.
00:31:59
Speaker
The parents quickly ran to the site where they found other onlookers standing around a shallow pit. They looked down to find their boys, but all that was left of them was bones and clothing.
00:32:11
Speaker
While most of the parents reported being in total denial that these remains could represent their once energetic and smiling children, the boys were able to be identified from certain articles of clothing and one of the boys' dental braces.
00:32:26
Speaker
but something was definitely strange. One child's remains, for example, were found with the trousers flipped up over his shoulders and the sleeves tied together.
00:32:39
Speaker
When the knot was untied, empty cartridges and unused bullets were found. While local police excavated the scene, forensic scientist, Chae Jung Min, a professor at Hyungbuk University, traveled to the crime scene.
00:32:58
Speaker
But when he arrived, he described the scene he found as a, quote, absurd situation. After excavating the remains, instead of arranging the bones to make a complete body, the police instead had started categorizing the bones.
00:33:14
Speaker
As in, put all the skulls right here and put all the long bones over here. wow And they didn't even put them on like a tarp or anything. It was just on newspaper.
00:33:27
Speaker
So in the two to three hours it took for the forensic scientists to get to the scene, the police department had completely destroyed ah possible crime scene. know It was another heart-rendering experience for Tae Rong Kim, the father of Yonggu, who said, quote, I had already cried so much by then.
00:33:48
Speaker
How dare they treat the bones like this by arranging them in piles? Then call on us to look at them and ask us whether this is our child or not. We couldn't do anything, so we became angry.
00:34:01
Speaker
The police had the law on their side. As parents, we had no power, end quote. The excavation was not the only thing the police were called out on, even by the media.
00:34:12
Speaker
A day after the remains were found, the police chief said hypothermia was the most probable cause of death. But all we have is skeletal remains?
00:34:24
Speaker
ah Hypothermia causes, you know, bullet casings to be tied up in a shirt because, I mean, last I checked. Well, and how would they have determined that when all we have is skeletal remains?
00:34:35
Speaker
Like, how would they even have determined that? rap They haven't even had time to do any forensic analysis of the remains. They just came out and said, well, hypothermia, guys.
00:34:46
Speaker
Got it i mean, I understand if it, get you know, that that might make sense, but it's a little early to say that, I think. i But again, but again ah we have bullets tied up in our clothing. So we have bullets tied up in clothing.
00:35:01
Speaker
And this is an area that it but has been searched several times over. So you're telling me it's hypothermia. But if it's just hypothermia, wouldn't they be, i mean, on the surface?
00:35:12
Speaker
Sure. Because they were in a pit, right? So were they covered? They were covered. Now, I don't know. and I mean, it had been 11 years, so maybe some natural settling had occurred.
00:35:25
Speaker
But anyway, this does not scream hypothermia to me. No, no. Speaking at the scene, the police chief told journalists that the lowest temperature recorded at the time was three degrees Celsius or 37 degrees Fahrenheit.
00:35:41
Speaker
But, quote, when it rains in the morning, the windchill factor would have lowered the temperature and the bodies were huddled together, end quote. Because the bodies were all found together.
00:35:54
Speaker
Could the bullet casings and such, could that have been something the little boys found? Because if my boys found something like that, that would be a treasure. So is it possible that while they were up on this mountain, maybe they, you know, they found something maybe from the military base or who knows from what.
00:36:11
Speaker
And, you know could that explain those items being with them? And then and then it gets cold and then they huddle together. Like, could both be true? Just a thought.
00:36:23
Speaker
Yes and no. So your first suggestion about the boys picking up bullets and bullet casings, yes, that actually does fit into a theory that we'll cover later on by But the hypothermia theory, they're not that far from their home.
00:36:40
Speaker
Right. Wouldn't they just go home? And this is a very well-lit area. So unless there was an injury of some kind, I can't imagine why they just would have stayed there.
00:36:53
Speaker
And even if there were an injury, there are five of them. If one of them is injured, they could carry that one home or go get help or something. You're right. So, well you know, it it just doesn't make sense why they would have huddled together.
00:37:08
Speaker
But based on the way the bones were found together, that seemed to be what they were grasping at. Now, this insistence that the children died from natural causes prompted a team from the Korea Alpine Federation, who are often called in for emergencies because of their experience in mountainous areas, to check the site.
00:37:29
Speaker
they were certain it was not a hypothermia case. Rescue team director Choi Won-seok said, quote, this area isn't high up at all. It isn't even 100 meters from the streets.
00:37:42
Speaker
Just use some common sense. If it was cold and raining, it would have taken only five minutes for the boys to run home, end quote, which feeds in exactly what we were saying. They were close to a street. They were close to their house.
00:37:54
Speaker
Even if there was an injury, the other boys could have run home to get help. So them just all five staying there doesn't fit for me. And they're literally five minute walk from their house. Eleven years later, they're found five minute walk from their house.
00:38:12
Speaker
Maddening. Maddening, isn't it? and And I'm sorry. Were they buried? Yes. Okay. They were buried. They were buried. I don't think it was...
00:38:25
Speaker
um they Yeah, they were covered. the The men that were picking acorns that eventually stumbled across the grave, they actually found it because there were a few pieces of clothing kind of sticking out.
00:38:37
Speaker
And they were like, what is this? And then they realized they were attached to skeletons. Yeah, it was very shallow, but they were absolutely under a level of dirt, vegetation.
00:38:50
Speaker
Now, again, i don't know if there's natural settling on this hill. Could it be possible that if they were laying on the surface, residue fell on them, dirt fell on them, vegetation grew over them? Is it possible? Yes.
00:39:05
Speaker
i mean, it's been 11 years. It has been 11 years. So it's possible. But it also seems strange if they were that close to the surface that during all none of these searches they...
00:39:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's what was going through my mind. i was thinking either... Either, you know, this mountain that was searched 500 times with no one finding them, their remains had been moved there later after the media attention had shifted elsewhere, people stopped paying attention to it.
00:39:37
Speaker
But i also do wonder, maybe it was searched, maybe they had been there the whole time, because in seasons of heavy rain, for example, that could have eroded that area enough maybe where clothing stuck out or or something like that, where now we find them.
Forensic Findings and Theories
00:39:56
Speaker
it's It's possible. Now, after the forensic testing had been done, the forensic scientist they called in, Chae Jong-min, absolutely disagreed with the finding of hypothermia.
00:40:09
Speaker
He said the strongest evidence of foul play was that Quote, if a child died naturally, the bones would have been found on top of the dirt. When a corpse is on top of the dirt, it rots or animals come and rip up the body, which means the bones would have been separated.
00:40:26
Speaker
However, the bones were all buried, which means that someone killed them and meticulously hid them. So we need to figure out why. And unfortunately, we couldn't. So I think what he's saying, i think there's still a possibility it could have, like Allison suggested, been covered up by heavy rainfall or just growth of vegetation.
00:40:47
Speaker
But he's saying if they were on the surface, they probably would not have stayed as intact as they were exposed to the element. Their bones would have been moved around. So his thought was that they must have been buried for the skeletons to remain as intact as they were.
00:41:05
Speaker
I believe his theory. What was confirmed was that the bullets found with the bodies were from the Mount Woryong shooting range. But the military insisted at a press conference that it had nothing to do with the deaths and that there was no drill that day, which was again a public holiday. So they didn't have any shooting drills on that day.
00:41:30
Speaker
But there was a catch. Commissioned officers could shoot at their leisure, meaning a typical soldier would have had the day off, but a commissioned officer could have come any time and practiced shooting.
00:41:46
Speaker
The shooting range was relocated to a nearby town in 1994, but a map at the time of the children's disappearance showed that their remains were found only 100 to 300 meters.
00:41:59
Speaker
That's like 900 feet away from the shooting range's borders. That would have definitely been within the effective range of the M16 rifle that commissioned officers were known to use.
00:42:14
Speaker
Che stated, quote, it was reported that an officer fired his rifle on that day in order to use up the leftover bullets. The identity of this officer is still unknown, end quote.
00:42:30
Speaker
So it could have been an accident. It could have been.
00:42:36
Speaker
But a shooting death of one would have been an accident. The death of all five is not an accident, in my opinion. Sure. Trying to find more answers, Chase's forensic team examined the bones.
00:42:52
Speaker
Unfortunately, they were only able to use the bones they excavated as evidence, having to ignore those dug out by police because they were clear evidence of like shovel marks and things on the bones.
00:43:05
Speaker
So they couldn't say if any of those injuries had been when the boys were alive. That is so infuriating. I just feel like this poor family just gets victimized over and over and over.
00:43:22
Speaker
and most striking evidence lay in the skulls. Two holes, which could possibly be from a bullet, were found in one of the boys' heads. And they were on both sides of the skull.
00:43:35
Speaker
As in, like, possibly in an out hole. An exit. However, they weren't able to conclusively say that's what this injury was from. In addition, the skulls of three other boys were found with blunt horse injuries.
00:43:53
Speaker
Oh, wow. Hey, no accident. And not hypothermia. No hypothermia. Wow. You laugh about that. We're going to talk about it later because the police department still says that's what it was.
00:44:07
Speaker
Unbelievable. As Che surmised, quote, one child had his clothes turn inside out, which could mean that the culprit covered his eyes with the clothes, then murdered the children by hitting their head with some type of weapon.
00:44:24
Speaker
Which I almost have no words for. That might be the worst thing you've ever said this podcast. The most sad thing. On maybe a less terrible note, could it be possible that when the child got dressed that morning, especially if it was one of the younger ones, they just put their clothes on inside out? Because my eight-year-old, every time, everything is backwards and often inside out.
00:44:51
Speaker
It's just, it's it's a choice.
Unsolved Mystery and Parental Heartbreak
00:44:54
Speaker
But this one was like over the head. When it was found. Okay. So. So that's. So not how they were wearing them. It was. Not how they were wearing them. Correct.
00:45:06
Speaker
I would like your theory to be correct. But I don't know that that was it.
00:45:12
Speaker
But here's the deal guys. There was no blood found on any of the boys clothing.
00:45:22
Speaker
So a head wound doesn't always result in blood, but a gut shot to the head sure would. So even if the boys that had blunt force trauma didn't necessarily bleed, you would certainly think if one of them had accidentally got shot and then the other were killed to cover it up, somebody would have blood.
00:45:42
Speaker
i would think. Maybe. I mean, what are the odds, though? I would think to have blunt force trauma to the head, in most cases, there would be blood. I would think it would be. less typical that there's no blood. So the fact that there's no blood on any of their clothing, none of them blood is not strange. That's very strange.
00:46:03
Speaker
So strange. So you're kind of think you're being led down this path of, okay, this is what happened. But then wait, that doesn't fit. And all of their clothing was found with them. ah As far as all the reporting I saw, yes.
00:46:17
Speaker
Like their outer coats were still with them because the temperature was pretty chilly then and they still had their outerwear with them. Never mind. i was going to say they're going to a body of water. What if they had decided or dared each other to jump in and go for a swim and they had taken their clothes off when something happened and then...
00:46:37
Speaker
Yeah, this was a pretty chilly day. think the temperature topped out on the day like 45 degrees Fahrenheit. So definitely not going for a swim. No, no. But that would have been a good theory.
00:46:48
Speaker
But they are getting in the water, right? At least hands and feet because that's where they're out the salamanders. Yeah, I think hands and feet yeah like little boys do. Right. yeah Hmm.
00:47:01
Speaker
Now, this forensic scientist, Che, added, quote, many experts assume that this was done by ah psychopath. And I think what he means is, is there like a madman killer on the loose?
00:47:15
Speaker
And if it was a psychopath, there should have been other cases like this. But there's never been a similar case either before or after. And as we know, killers of this caliber don't just go zero to 3000.
00:47:30
Speaker
I mean, they have some kind of buildup point. And then once you got to this, the chances of somebody stopping without being stopped is pretty unlikely.
00:47:42
Speaker
That doesn't mean he could have been stopped in a way that we're not aware of. Maybe he went up committing suicide or was killed in some other way. But it does seem strange that this doesn't line up with anything else that has happened in their country before.
00:47:56
Speaker
And thank goodness it doesn't, honestly. Right, right. Thank goodness this is a one-off because this is rough. This is really rough. At one point when I was investigating this case, I called Cynthia. I said, why did I this line? Because both Cynthia and I have little boys.
00:48:12
Speaker
And I mean, my heart just broke for every one of these parents over and over and over with every article that I read. As speculation increased over the cause of death, the police reviewed all the case records from 1991 when the boys disappeared, but the investigation fizzled out when they couldn't find any more evidence.
00:48:34
Speaker
So two years after their remains were found and were stored at the university hospital morgue, the boys had their funerals at last. Together, the parents donated the boys' skulls to Giong Buk University for medical research.
00:48:52
Speaker
They took the remaining ashes of all five boys to the Nakdong River so their children could, quote, float away into the Pacific Ocean, end quote. Okay. Okay.
00:49:04
Speaker
10-year-old Chang-In's father said, quote, they died together, so we wanted them to play together in the afterlife, end quote. And this is where I'll cry a moment. Oh my gosh.
00:49:18
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. The parent's lawyer, Ji-Won, filed a lawsuit against the police for not having done their jobs properly. Fair.
00:49:30
Speaker
They went through three trials and lost them all. Their lawyer stated, quote, the police or the government should have set up a comprehensive police investigation team.
00:49:44
Speaker
They should have tried to find out the cause, whether it involved the military base or not. They should have investigated further, end quote. No one has ever been arrested in connection with the boys' deaths.
00:49:57
Speaker
And at the time of their death, the statute of limitations was only 15 years for first-degree murder. Oh, my goodness. 2015, South Korea removed the statute of limitations, which means any new evidence could lead to the police reopening this case.
00:50:16
Speaker
There's at least that. There's at least that. It's like that small glimmer of hope. But I still feel like this case is just going to get marred by this resistance of the military.
00:50:31
Speaker
So I'm at the point, ladies, we can talk theories. I think we've already pretty much squelched the hyperthermia theory. Yeah, that's out in my mind.
00:50:42
Speaker
Right. Done. Out. Done. Yeah. What about this possibility of a madman being around? Like, could the boys literally have been and at the wrong place at the wrong time?
00:50:55
Speaker
But in my mind, how do how do you get five boys to not run away? Like, how do you corral them all? How do you hold them all? um Maybe there were a multiple assailants.
00:51:07
Speaker
I don't know. I just grasping at straws as to what might have happened, even if you think the military was involved. It's not real clear cut here. Especially because the lack of blood. and
00:51:20
Speaker
Every time I think, okay, this is probably what happens, then I remember something else you've told us that I'm like, wait a minute, that that doesn't work. That doesn't make sense. Right. And again, if it was this madman, how were there no other cases like it?
00:51:35
Speaker
I mean, that I can kind of see because I think like, okay, this has a little bit of like the West Memphis Three feel. Right. yeah And that's not necessarily something there wasn't like a string of those. I mean, but you know, those type of killings.
00:51:51
Speaker
So in that case, I can say maybe this is just like, you know, the one that we're hearing about. But you bring up a really good point. Five boys and nobody runs away, even with a firearm.
00:52:06
Speaker
You're going to have a hard time corralling five boys. At the same time, I say that nine is pretty young. Like I have an eight year old. He's going to do what a grown up tells him to. You know, maybe some of the older ones maybe could have ran.
00:52:20
Speaker
But I don't know that even my eight year old would, you know, if a grown up is telling him stand here. He might do it just because a grown-up told him to do something. Despite all the instruction I've given him to, you know.
00:52:34
Speaker
Clean your room. Despite me telling him, like, you know, don't talk to strangers. I've taught him what to do. But, you know, we see these yeah these little exercises where, you know, you tell your kids don't talk to strangers. And then your kid's getting in a van, you know, with a stranger because they say we have a puppy. You know what I mean? So kids are kids.
00:52:53
Speaker
All that to say, I just think, I don't know. I don't know what happened at the military base, but in my mind, there is definitely something there. Why all the cover up, not only in talking about it in the media, but the inability to even search on the military base.
00:53:13
Speaker
There seems something you don't miss. You might miss something searching in an area one or two times. I don't know if you miss it searching 500 times. Well, and again, the family doesn't actually think they were active searches.
00:53:28
Speaker
They think the president had ordered the searches and the police said, well, we got to do it. But they just kind of basically packed a lunch and hung out on the mountain saying, oh, yeah, we did a search. So one could argue maybe the 500 searches weren't actually thorough searches.
00:53:44
Speaker
But don't know. What I was thinking is, to your point of would the little boys stay, If one of them was shot, say by someone at the military or, you know, just a crazy person, a mad person up on the mountain, i think that may prevent them from running.
00:54:05
Speaker
Maybe think, well, I could be injured or I don't want to leave my friend or whatever it was. And then maybe those were boys were even ambushed.
00:54:16
Speaker
Maybe they didn't even see someone coming at them with some kind of weapon. Or even backed up against the water. Maybe literally, you know, kind of trapped.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah, the water they describe is more like stream. But I don't know, maybe there was a deeper portion and they couldn't run away. not sure. And I mean, to your point, I feel like if whoever committed this crime did have my friend with a gun to their head and they said, if you leave...
00:54:49
Speaker
i I will murder your friend. I'm not going anywhere. Sure. And that's as an adult, let alone as a as a kid. I wouldn't move. Yeah. Well, we'll go ahead and just kind of slide into what I think we're all coming to the conclusion that it's a military involvement of some kind.
00:55:08
Speaker
But again, I'm thinking, okay, say this military officer was shooting and accidentally hit one of the boys. Are you really going to kill four more to cover it up?
00:55:21
Speaker
It would have been an accident. And if it's that far away, if it's literally that far away from you, are you going to be able to run there in time to say, don't go anywhere, at boys? I mean, I think those boys would run back home to tell someone what happened.
00:55:37
Speaker
None of that makes sense to me. i do think there is a potential that they were picking up some of those spent shell casings at the firing range. Maybe there was a potential that someone didn't recognize them as kids and some overzealous patrolman shot them thinking they were a threat.
00:56:00
Speaker
Or they saw something they weren't supposed to see. Maybe they saw something. It's hard for I can imagine an accidental shooting of one. But why the other four had to die is is really puzzling for me.
00:56:14
Speaker
And again, we don't even know that those two holes were bullet holes. They could have been from blunt force injury as well. And coming out of the climate they were coming out of, who knows what was actually happening on that base. I don't think, I can see an accident happening and one child being accidentally killed, but you would just say it was an accident. you write You wouldn't cover it up.
00:56:41
Speaker
in such a horrific way. i feel like that's a big stretch. I mean, from accidentally shooting ah child to then deliberately murdering for more, that seems like a big leap.
00:56:55
Speaker
Sure. Well, because of the thing is, I don't even know that the officer, I mean, would have necessarily even have done anything wrong if they're on shooting Even if known.
00:57:05
Speaker
Right. If they're following protocol... And unfortunately, it sounds like this range was maybe too close civilians. Everyone has said this range was very clearly marked.
00:57:17
Speaker
So there was no way you could accidentally go onto the range. um But again, maybe one of the bullets strayed out of the range. Maybe the boys had tested the boundaries of the range.
00:57:29
Speaker
I can see little boys doing that. um Oh, cross the line, you know, climate defense sir or whatever. Especially if you say, oh, just go grab that bullet casing or go, by you know, go grab that real quick.
00:57:42
Speaker
I mean, it certainly would have explained why the casings were there. But then then there's no blood. But then there's no blood, which also makes no sense. I mean, you do keep coming back to that, right? yeah That's ah definitely strange.
00:57:56
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like just because of the military involvement in this, I don't know that this will ever be a solved case. There are some that we are truly hopeful for. i don't know that this will be solved, but what I hope to gain is sharing the story ah these families and how these parents never gave up and were willing to sacrifice everything to find their children, which I find...
00:58:21
Speaker
So, I mean, heartbreaking, but inspiring at the same time that you don't give up. You advocate for your people as we just talked about, you know, and in Allison's case, you don't give up.
00:58:33
Speaker
So the fathers of the frog boys are now in their sixties and seventies and without answers. Young goose father writes of his only child, quote, we tried to give him all the love he deserved and he loved us back.
00:58:47
Speaker
End quote. Chan-In Park's father said, quote, my life is almost over anyway. I've been patient until now. I can wait a little longer to see Chan-In, end quote.
Conclusion and Call for Listener Engagement
00:59:01
Speaker
Chol-Wan's father wrote of Chol-Wan and the other, quote, lovely sons, quote, it's sad it's said that when your parents die, you bury them in the ground, but when your child dies, you bury them in your heart.
00:59:17
Speaker
I thought that I could forget you after seeing you return to dust, but I miss you even more as time goes by. And that's really the story um of the Frog Boys and their unsolved homicides.
00:59:35
Speaker
Again, the police have still stuck to the idea that this was, they died of natural causes, which I can't imagine how you come to that conclusion at this point, but that's still the official cause.
00:59:47
Speaker
If you are interested in this case or learning more about the Frog Boy incident, There was a crime thriller movie released in South Korea called Children.
00:59:58
Speaker
And the film is about an unsolved murder based on the Frog Boys. i mean, it's a real life story of the Frog Boys. It is in Korean, so you have to be in the mood to read a lot of subtitles.
01:00:10
Speaker
But it goes further into the points that I've brought up and and the theories and has some ah you know interviews that... get you but a little closer to the case a few more details oh that's heavy stephanie and i are always saying it's these the kids and putting ourselves you know in the in the mindset of the parents it's just so heart-wrenching and those were such beautiful words from from these families but wow that's that's pretty rough
01:00:46
Speaker
Our purpose is to share these stories and there might never be answers, but you never know unless you try. Absolutely. Absolutely. And now there is a possibility. I mean, this case is, you know, 30 years old now, but right there's always change.
01:01:04
Speaker
Somebody knows what happens to those kids. I don't think it was natural causes. I don't think they just expired on their own with no one around. I feel like someone knows what happened. Yeah. And, um,
01:01:16
Speaker
You know, there's still time even with their parents being 60 and 70. Maybe whoever did this to them is also getting close to maybe a deathbed confession.
01:01:27
Speaker
And and we'll know i would want nothing more for their families than to know what really happened, because I think. As a parent, having to think about what your child might have gone through is almost harder than knowing what they went through, thinking about the possibilities.
01:01:51
Speaker
And so being able to just give them clear answers, I think would just be such a prize for them. Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases Podcast, to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode.
01:02:07
Speaker
As always, follow us on Twitter at Cases Coffee, on Instagram at Coffee Cases Podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcast at gmail.com.
01:02:18
Speaker
Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon. Stay together. Stay safe.
01:02:30
Speaker
We'll see you next week.